sold! we aim to cheese! kraft natural cheese: we make cheese for how you love cheese. it is good to be s francis . one time tropical storm bonnie creeps up the coast. new information on the path and strength. donald trump slated to speak at one of the largest gatherings of motor cyclists. we'll tell you why this event is relevant to the campaign. >> not only will we defeat donald trump, we will defeat him badly. >> playing the trump card. bernie sanders once again

strikes a particular theme on why democrats should vote for him, not hillary clinton, in the upcoming primary. inside the mind of donald trump, a new look analyzing the behavior of the gop frontrunner and whether his temperament could change as president. and really scary moments at a zoo in the midwest, a 4-year-old fall there is to a gorilla enclosure. the remarkable video and what happened next. that's all ahead. happening rightnie has weakened to a tropical storm cal depression. there are reports of flash flooding in south carolina. 8 to 10 inches of rain has fallen with more rain expected through mid morning. and if in texas, tlflash flood warnings in austin and san antonio. so far four are dead and two others missing in southeast texas. want to bring in bonnie snydid schneider here with the headlines on these storms.

>> and this storm, bonnie, has really produced a lot of rain this and around the charleston flooding. and you can he syou can see thee depression. it will make shore soon. those heavy bands all the way as far inland as columbia, south carolina. let's take a closer look at this depression. winds are below 39 miles per hour. it will retain the name bonnie, though. this is there 8:00. i bet you it's coming on shore right now. maximum winds at 35 miles per hour. real time lightning strikes just to the east of charleston. and plenty of downpours. coastal georgia will feel the impacts. and interesting to note that we're not just talking about

impacts for georgia, carolinas, but the rip current rob will be a huge concern for the rest of this holiday weekend. so if you're planning to head to the beach, even if the sun is shining, these are dangerous rip currents. tropical storm force winds mainly in coastal south carolina and of course heavy rain at times. that rain could still produce another few inches of rain. speaking of rain, an area where we don't need any, austin, san antonio, this is where we're still seeing heavy rain following. and when we look the what has been happening over the past seven days, what you will find is a lot of rain. and we've had deaths due to the flooding. over 20 inches on thursday and more friday and more rain likely expected but anything noer what we saw earlier in the week. i also want to mention part of the problem with the flooding is because so much of the water is now running off into the streams and into the reservoirs. that's where we're likely to see the continuation of the flooding even when it stops raining. thunderstorms are expected as we go towards memorial day and also

very hot temperatures. frances, we had 17 shattered records for heat in the northeast yesterday. it could be dangerous out there. so be careful, make sure you stay cool. i know it's a holiday weekend, you want to have fun, but we're definitely looking at hot weather. >> safety with the heat and also the rain and flooding for this holiday weekend. bonnie sthid schneider, thank yy much. now to politics. the presumptive gop nominee is firing back in a "new york times" article this morning at those who accused him of fascism including the former massachusetts governor. trump said i don't talk about his alcoholism, so why dough we talk about my foolishly perceived fascism? here's what he had said about trump's remarks at the libertarian convention. >> i'll let that ride. >> do you think it says something that he's going after

you? >> when i say i'm letting it ride, i'm letting it ride. >> meanwhile the "washington post" is reporting this morning that the judge who was attacked by donald trump during his rally in california on friday has ordered the release of internal trump university documents. they include so-called playbooks on how to market its high priced real estate courses. the ruling was issued on the same dave the rally after the "washington post" requested documents be made public. and later today, trump will join rolling thun der for its memorial day event in washington, d.c. and new reaction this morning from clinton supporter senator dianne feinstein essentially calling on bernie sanders to drop out of the race. >> senator sanders has the right to run, no question. he ought to be able to read the sign posts as well as anybody else. and if he did that, he would know that it's all but over. >> meanwhile in an interview that will air this morning on "meet the press," sanders is warning hillary clinton that she

will lose the election unless she picks this type of running mate -- >> i would hope if i am not the nominee that the vice presidential candidate will not be from wall street, will be somebody who has a history of standing up and fighting for working families, taking on the drug companies whose greed is doing so much harm, taking on wall street, taking on corporate america and fight for a government that works for all of us, into tnot just the 1% . >> the comments one day after his requests that wasserman issues be removed from the committee. joining me now is kristen women kerr. welker. as we look at how sanders is crisscrossing california the past week,kerr. welker. as we look at how sanders is crisscrossing california the past week, and his crowds, how is the gauge on that knowing that there are repeated demands for him to get out of the race?

>> he's hnot getting out of the race. that's for sure. i spoke to him and he was adamant about that. and he has a real shot at california. polls show a very tight race. second clinton is up by about two points, but that is down fromseven points from about a month ago g month ago. he's outspending clinton in ads. but secretary clinton has been making a real play forle came cal, as well. i was with her this past week campaigning vigorously. she is up with ads and she has about nine campaign offices. that's more than senator sanders. but here is the thing. independents can vote in the california primary. that's something that could benefit senator sanders. so there is a real vigorous fight going on out there. but he needs to not only win california in order to catch up to secretary clinton, needs to win the vast majority of votes.

so the question becomes if he doesn't win california, then what. that's what my colleague chris jansing asked him. take a look. >> if you don't win california, will you drop out. >> >> let's not get into speculation. i think we will win california and we'll do well in the remaining states. so i don't like to speculation. >> so you can expect both candidates to be back out there before the june 7 primary. second ch secretary clinton also campaigning in new jersey. she wants to win a number of state so is that as she heads into the convention, she's on solid ground. all of this as she is train her sights on donald trump increasing ramping up her attacks against him this past week particularly after he clinched the nomination and then of course looming over all of this, that e-mail controversy. it came back again this week, an ig report scathing, it rebuked her for use of a private e-mail

server as secretary of state. the clinton campaign still awaiting the results of an fbi investigation. so this could continue to haunt her into the general election. but of course first, she has to win the primary. >> but you know those diehard bernie sanders supporters hoping for that investigation as well and the outcome. kristen kewelker, thank you ver much. the. the gop presumptive nominee donald trump will be speaking at the rolling thunder rally in washington, d.c. this is a live picture of the gathering this washington, d.c. and as you can see already looks like hundreds of people already there. kelly o'donnell joins me now from august. and what kind message can we expect to hear from donald trump that may be a little bit different from what we've lettered before givperiod before? >> reporter: this is not a donald trump event. he is a guest at what is a well established annual celebration commemoration and attempt to show respect for veteran.

roll be thundershower dr is a big part of memorial day weekend in washington, d.c. it's the kind of thing that shuts down roads in this area, brings thousands of people together. and for bikers who participate, they come from all over the country to be part of this. so basically donald trump is dipping into what is this ordinary event in the sense of something planned, prepared for and a big part of the holiday season and he will come in and give a message that will be more tail aored about veterans. his campaign manager says donald trump will talk about what veterans mean to the country and their importance and to try to show that he's support i haive them. and you also won't get some of the same atmosphere perhaps because you don't have people who even know that he's coming here, it's not a well publicized fact that he will be speaking today because this event is about the veterans and rolling thunder and their own history,

their own sort of message. so for trump, this is a way to get massive exposure, something we've seen he has an ability to do at an event that has an incredible backdrop o. to my left the lincoln memorial, the reflective pool and washington monument in the back. and this will have cameras positioned all afternoon this national mall area and of course all of the sounds and sights that come withi rolling thunder. takes spectacle up to itself and donald trump will share a part of that today for a period this afternoon.spectacle up to itsel donald trump will share a part of that today for a period this afternoon. so not a cam ppaign rally, but s message is about veterans when we because to remember their contributions to the country and for trump, he will try to

somehow put those two together with his campaign and make the most of this opportunity. frances. >> kelly o'donnell, thank you. want to bring in now national political correspondent for the "washington post." and also jane tim oig, covering the convention there in florida. jane, start but. you have the back and forth between bill weld and donald trump and you have some criticism that bill weld isn't libertarian enough, some calling him libertarian light. what are the chances he will get the v.p. nomination? >> reporter: i think that it will be a close race for matter what happens. libertarians are really at a choice. they can go with the candidate who is polling at 10% against hillary clinton and donald trump, and he needs wealth to

run. or they can go interest one who maybe identifies more with their views. we listened to a debate last night and governor johnson would say something like i think driver's licenses aren't the worth things in the world and he got booed. he got booed for a lot of normal views. but here it's seen as government overreach. so this is the choice that they will have. but after the presidential nomination is won, governor johnson does win, he gets a chance to appeal to the crowd to tell him why he needs weld to be his vp. so i think that's where you will see him make a compel abouting case for weld, but anything can happen especially when you go to multiple ballots are they likely on whi often go. >> and when you have the lesser of two evils and you won't pick one, you have them looking at the third party here, erick erickson looking to libertarian candidates as the anti-trump choice, and the democrats in

this bernie or bust crowd, an uphill battle, but how could the libertarians further disrupt the two way race between trump and the eventual democratic nominee? >> there are a whole lot of people looking for a third party candidate. you have evangelicals looking for a third party candidate and this libertarian convention that people are coming out and potentially mounting a challenge for both parties. so i think it's getting a lot more attention this year than it has in the past because people are looking for alternatives to clinton or trump. >> is there a sense as to whether some of the libertarians that you have been speaking with will sit out if their candidate loses and just say no one? >> i'm not sure if they will stand out. i know that they will probably vote for the libertarian candidate that they like them a lot more than donald trump and will hillary clinton who they say often are one in the same,

two new york will i liberals wh too much overreach. but i think a lot could poll the different side. austin peterson, a younger upstart libertarian candidate would really do well with conservatives. i've been covering conservatives for a year and i would say he would have a lot of success with that crowd. >> jane, the first run voting shows gary johnson in the lead and based on what happened and the outcome of the presidential debate last night, did johnson appear to be the shoe shoo-in for today's vote? >> he needs to get more gall delegates that they have ever hard. and the crouwd was booing, screm willing, yelling. once you get to multiple ballot, sometimes the third place runner

is the one that who comes out the winner. so likely, but nothing sure. >> and i also want to bring in kate to talk about trump and trump university and the documents released of the "washington post" request of the so-called playbook. what will we learn that we didn't know before? >> i think with the release of these documents, these are internal documents that will come out, i think we'll learn quite a bit about its inner working, how it operated, how it recruited students, how many, many things that we just don't know about right now. >> and another thing i want to ask you about, katie it, when you talk about trump staying away from cultural wars, and when does he talk about issues like abortion, he backtracks. so how will that dynamic affect his campaign in the general? >> it could go a few ways in the general election. he he could try to appeal more to conservatives and take a

position that may put him at a disadvantage with the broader general electorate who is more on board with things like same-sex marriage. so it will be interesting. if he does track to the right a little bit more, conservatives particularly republican voters, they vote, but many are leery of donald trump. so either way this has pit falls for him. he could alien that one sate on voters or stay the course, as well and ten to not the talk about them at all and talk about other issues such as trade and immigration. >> we'll see if that can continue on into the general. katie and jane, thank you. national campaign from his managing staff pitting a running mate that challenges donald trump has within his own team to win november's election. my experience with usaa is awesome.

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bernie sanders hits the trail in california today ahead of june 7 rhyme primary. he's trailing hillary clinton in the delegate counseled, bt, but point he does hold the trump card. >> a poll including one in california the other day has us beating donald trump by big numbers. not only will we with defeat donald trump, we will defeat him badly. >> joining me now is boris epstein. i appreciate your time.

you heard from bernie sanders. no secret when it comes to the polls hillary clinton and donald trump neck and neck, but the dominance of bernie sanders in these polls as he just mentioned, what do you account that to? >> governor kasich was coming in polls also but where is he now. the reason is bernie sanders has not been under the spotlight. the only negative story was that horrible story about the university that has wife ran up in vermont that she ran to the ground with debt. just an example of how bernie sanders' economy would work. so not much of a focus on him from the national immediate are a. and obviously not any attacks in the media from the republican side. so those polls are not reliable at all. if he were to become the nominee, i guarantee trump would be in the need nationally. >> and polls taken in bust belt state rust belt states, trump

trailing hillary clinton and he says the white working class.be state rust belt states, trump trailing hillary clinton and he says the white working class. is that a sign of trouble for trump when it comes to those states and beyond? >> not at all. seven points with the 3 1/2 point margin of error is actually very tight, first of all. and if you look at the quinnipiac polls in the states of pennsylvania, ohio and florida, key states for the election which is how we really have to view this election, state by state basis, trump is also leading or tied with hillary in all three key states of pennsylvania, florida and ohio. and there are other polls which show him doing very well with folks of that same range of income that you're talking about. so he did very well in indiana, michigan and illinois as well as of course pennsylvania and even ohio, he only lost by a few points to a sitting governor in governor kasich. so i'm confident that donald trump in the general election will win pennsylvania, florida and ohio. >> what is needed there and some will say that there is a lack of a ground game, a ground game for

him to get moving when it comes to get moving and operation in winning the states in the general. but you also have this considering the article in the "washington post" that details what they're calling chaos inside the trump campaign of pitting his people against each other and refusal to delegate important jobs. i want to read you this quote from trump friend rudy giuliani, he says trump is a micro manager on the important most things but not all things. he has his in his head what he wants to do and his issues and he will hold on to them instead of sharing those big decisions. so when it comes to donald trump's biggest supporters, it really isn't going to matter what is happening with the in-fighting inside his own camp. but some will say if that's reflective of the white house, an administration he would have if he wins the general election, how could he be an effective leader of the entire country? >> abraham lincoln had the same thing going on inside of his

administration. a lot of equals who were having discussions with one another, sometimes disagreeing and then coming up with a common plan. there is no problem with that at all. all campaigns have a chief strategist and campaign manager. when i was on mccain, you had rick davis and steve schmidt. obama had plouffe and axelrod. there is always more than one voice in the room and there has to be. now, as far as the boss, donald trump is the boss and that's what this country needs, it needs a leader who will be leading and not just punting the decision as obama has done for so long now in his time at president. >> and if you're saying he is thes about, w boss, who is the o number two? >> as far as vice president? newt gingrich, governor fallin, chris christie, a lot of capable

candidates out there and donald trump will be the one who makes that decision and it will be the right one for his campaign and for this country. s >> boris, thank you so much for your time. cornered by a 400 pound gorilla, the first look at the race to save a 4-year-old's boy life half submerged in water. more "sit" per roll. more "who's training who" per roll. bounty is two times more absorbent. so one roll of... ...bounty can last longer than those bargain brands. so you get more "life" per roll. bounty. the long-lasting quicker picker upper. and now, find dory in the paper towel aisle! get disney pixar's finding dory prints before they're gone. hi! hey! i've made plans for later in case this date doesn't go well. same here. wouldn't it be great if everyone said what they meant? the citi double cash card does. earn 1% cash back when you buy, and 1% as you pay. double means double.

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made a tough choice and they made the right choice. because they saved the little boy's life. >> remarkable how calm the boy stayed there inside that enclosure. he was taken to the cincinnati children's hospital with a serious injuries but expected to make a full recovery. the growing dissent facing the front runner and can he be a factor in the november's election. runner and can he be a factor in the november's election. (war drums beating)

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two stories we're following happening right now. on the left of your screen here, a live picture of the annual rolling thunder gathering in washington, d.c. thousands already there where gop nominee donald trump will speak at 2:00 p.m. and on the right, myrtle beach, also a live picture as few people on the beach. not too many people given that they are threatened by tropical

depression of bonnie. just two of the stories we're following this this sunday morning. welcome back. i'm frances rivera here at msnbc world headquarters in this morning. and new reaction this morning from marco rubio. just moments ago, he said even though he would speak on trump's behalf if asked, he hasn't forgotten the impact of trump's rhetoric. >> i still to, i have real issues with the way he conducted himself in certain aspects of this campaign throughout the campaign. that remains. he's now the presumptive nominee and will be the nominee and i think he has an opportunity to enter a second phase. >> and just moments ago, bernie sanders had this to say about the investigation into hillary clinton's e-mails. >> that's not the decision of superdelegates or anybody else. that's the decision of fbi. i have no idea when they are going to make their report to the public or come up with their conclusions. but do i think that whefatever

that happens if it happens that that will be an issue that donald trump the republicans will seize on? i think there is little doubt about that. >> hillary clinton is off the campaign trail, butle bernie sanders will hold two events in california. to ton to tony, is it look willing like the will i be belibertarians wi? >> gary johnson is definitely the frontrunner. last night however at the presidential debate, things did not go all that well. it was not a great night for gary johnson. he's a bit of an athlete, a tough guy. last saw him a picture in gq shirtless. he's climbed the tallest picks

on every single continent. but he doesn't deliver his lines with a hard punch. it's more of a fadeaway. second, the party activist in this room last night did not agree with some of his policies like supporting driver eye licenli licenses. that's really the big problem issue.eye licenses. that's really the big problem issue. an finally his selection of bill weld is not sitting well with many of the delegates here. but johnson is saying if he doesn't get his pick, he may not run at all. take a listen. >> i wouldn't be doing this this if there weren't the opportunity to win. but the only chance i have of winning is to be in the presidential debates. i to win if i'm in the presidential debates. i'd be representing 25 million people. if the in-with her ends up being trump, clinton, look, they will have to pay more than just lip service to the 25 million people

backing me.will have to pay mor lip service to the 25 million people backing me.trump, clinto have to pay more than just lip service to the 25 million people backing me. >> reporter: so what this really comes down to is whether the party will select somebody like gary johnson or somebody who adheres to strict party principles. it will be very interesting to see where they land. >> thank you very much, tony decompany pull. i want to bring in now howard dean and vice president of communications at the bipartisan policy center robert tranham. want to start with this. i don't know if you've heard this interview with chris jansing where she spoke with bernie sanders and he reveals whether he would consider running as hillary clinton's number two. sdwr wousgl would you accept th vice presidential slot? >> right now i'm trying to become the democratic nominee. and that's where my focus is on

right now. what happens the day after, it appears that i'm not going to become the nominee, that's subject for further discussion. >> it is subject for further discussion. >> well, the whole process is subject for further discussion. maybe you will become the nominee. >> i don't think so. >> subject for further discussion. so howard, is that him with this door kind of setting up a little bit of a wedge or where he with have a possible backup plan and maybe starting to give up on winning the nomination? >> i'm not so sure about giving -- well, he won't win the nomination, so this is all whatever he's doing is what he's doing. i think he wants to take his case to the convention which i think he's more than earned the right to do. but that was- -- in the politicl parlance, what he just said is yes, i'll consider about. >> so would he be a good vp pick, howard? >> i don't think he'd like it. he's incredibly independent

minded. he's not used to following other people's instructions about what he should and should not say. and one of the things about a vice presidential candidate is you really have to be willing to stick with the ticket and the top of the ticket basically decides what you say, where you say it. so it's not an ideal role for him. but i think if he's offered, he'd probably take it. >> robert, to you would that be a good scenario as far as somebody who could help lure republicans who run happy with donald trump and hillary clinton are saying, you know, what here we are, this is our ticket, clinton/sanders? >> well, i'm not exactly sure that republicans would vote for a clinton/sanders ticket and the reason why is because that would be so far to the left that i think some republicans would probably say, you know, i'm just going to vote for a third party candidate or perhaps donald trump because he's not a conservative. i don't think this is bernie sanders' choice. i think this is hillary clinton's choice. and i think she will pick someone like a tim kaine from virginia because that and he

someone that she's very comfortable with my understanding is or perhaps maybe secretary from hud or secretary perez from labor. but bernie sanders doesn't bring anything to the ticket per se. remember nine years ago we were having this conversation about hillary clinton and barack obama joining the ticket because hillary clinton was just pulling out of the race around this time back in 20in 2008 and people th barack obama had to choose hillary clinton to bring people together. so i don't think bernie sanders brings a lot to the ticket for hillary clinton. >> governor, on the other side of -- posing the same question to you, is there a v.p. choice for trump that would make it more -- bridge what is seen as just a gap in some sense that he needs? >> i don't think so. the sort of conventional wisdom says you should find somebody who is latino or a woman. i think he's done so much damage in those groups that it doesn't

matter who he picks. if i were him, i'd probably pick an inside washington person just to calm down his base. but i can't imagine how he's going to make any inroads into the groups that he's already deeply offended the last ten months. >> let's talk about one of the democrat egg partic party in a calling for remove of two chair. what is he hoping to gain here especially when it's already a sensitive as far as alienating the party? >> i think this is a problem. i wish bernie would stop doing this. it's a streak of him, he never quits. he's a tough guy. and obviously you admire that in a politician. but this attempt to undue rules it this business in california trying to get the judge to extend registration. it won't happen, so he's getting his supporters false hope that

somehow this will all change and work out. and that's not the right thing to be doing at this particular time. >> even about it means an fbi investigation and one of his diehard supporters hoping for that? >> i hope they're in the hoping for that because that's not going to on do the country any good. >> robert, when it comes to bernie sandersdo the country an good. >> robert, when it comes to bernie sanders getting an edge over donald trump, after this back and forth, is he the one that is coming out of it benefiting more? >> well, bernie sanders i think is in this for the long haul meaning he's trying to win the war. he knows that mathematically it doesn't make sense for him. but i think what bernie sanders is trying to do to the governor's underlying point is he's trying to change the platform. he's trying to influence the national conversation about the 1% versus the 99%. and candidry speaking, i have to give senator sanders a lot of credit. he is in fact doing that and

whether or not the he's giving his supporters false hope or not, i don't know. but the real question is whether or not he would debate donald trump. i think it would be fascinating because donald trump would probably get his clock cleaned when it comes to policy. but donald trump wants bernie sanders to run as a third party to siphon votes away from hillary clinton. >> i wish re had more time. thank you. remnants of tropical storm bonnie could make the holiday a washout. a live report next. uncomfortable it can be. but did you know that the lack of saliva can also lead to tooth decay and bad breath? well, there is biotene, specially formulated with moisturizers and lubricants... biotene can provide soothing relief and it helps keep your mouth healthy too.

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myrtle beach and right now from at the least this vantage point, it being look loobeing looks be there. >> reporter: if you were living under a rock, you would think weather is spectacular. a tell tale sign of a veil of cloud cover, but it really is closer to charleston where you have heavy rainfall. a lot of the rainfall will be moving in this direction. so could is will be like a come kaleidoscope. gray is on the way. when you have this weekend, up to a half million people that come to the shores, first enjoy sand and surf. problem is we have enhanced rip currents and tahat poses a very danger to people who want to enjoy the waves. looks beautiful, but even at low tide, it can be very dangerous

for you. in fasct just yesterday someone got pulled out, coast guard still looking for that person. so people are urged to stay out of the water all together. there are 460 hotels on this beach, many with pools. people are advised to enjoy those under the guidance of a lifeguard. >> at least they can still enjoy the water. thank you so much. now holiday travel and the expectations for the long way home. after weeks of complaints, signs of improvement for the 4 million passengers flying this weekend. wait times were remarkably shorter and more changes are in the works. morgan radford has more live from laguardia. >> reporter: not too many people here. the lines both for check-in and ts after the rchbt too loaren't. and there are no real delays. this is part of a marked improvement to really reduce the

wait times. these railroad lines lasting up to two hours long and now the tsa has come out and say that they have re reduced the wait times by 90% and down to less than 15 minutes. so a lot of families i've spoken to here today said look, we budgeted a little extra time to get to the airport. but in reality, we didn't really need it. and just to give you some context frances of the 38 million people who are out traveling this memorial day weekend, about 90% of them are doing so in their cars and partly that's because gas prices are lower. we're talking $2.32 is the national average. and that's about 18 cents higher than it was the beginning of the month. but that's still significantly cheaper than it was this time last year. so a lot of americans are feeling more confident, they have a little extra money in their pockets, they're hitting the roads will this memorial day weekend. but still experts say if you are going to hit the roads, be considerate and perhaps come back this evening or even monday morning to avoid the monday evening peak rush hour traffic

because traffic is expected to be in gridlock across the country in cities like cleveland, san francisco, miami, washington, d.c., and especially here in new york city. and they're saying every time you actually get behind the wheel ofcar, even if you've already gotten to your destination, before you come back, bow sure to check the tread level on your tires to make sure that if it rains, your car doesn't skid off the road. also be careful to check your tire pressure each and every time you get behind the wheel. >> hopefully easy breezy on the roads, in the air and at the airports. the psychological report of donald trump. what makes him tick. that's next. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪

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what goes on inside the mind of a presidential candidate? that's been a popular question this campaign season, especially with some remarks and name calling from presumptive gop nominee donald trump. a new article in "the atlantic" examines the mind of donald trump. dan mcadams wrote that piece. he's also a psychology professor

at northwestern university. as we delve into this, a fascinating read. your aim was to create a psychological portrait of the man, but you didn't interview donald trump, you just based it on books, speeches, press. how did you do this objectively? >> we asked him for the interview but got turned down on that. i basically immersed myself in everything trump for about three months. read his books, watched his speeches, read some biographies on him and tried to apply basic ideas in personality, developmental and social psychology to try to describe his personality and to try to understand his full psychological makeup. >> it's interesting too because you write in the article, early in the article, that more than even ronald reagan, trump seems supremely cognizant of the fact that he is always acting. he moves through life like a man who knows he is always being observed. at the end of your article, your final lines says who is behind donald trump. what's behind the actor's mask. what did you find that struck

you the most? >> that was my big question because many people remarked when they're with donald trump, it's as if i'm with donald trump playing donald trump. so what's behind the role? and the article spends a lot of time looking at the role itself. how outgoing and domineering, socially dominant he is, and how just not very agreeable at all. you put those two things together and you've got a volatile combination of a highly dynamic but sort of mean-spirited social actor. so i spent a lot of time on that but then i tried to get behind it. what motivates the man. what are his goals and values. it was tough to find much, i have to admit, beyond his story. the story about basically winning at all costs. it depogoes back to early in hi life when he was taught by his father, even though he grew up in a lap of luxury, it's a tough world out there, you've got to be a killer to get ahead, and that's sort of his story. so he's a fighter. he sees himself as a winner. but that kind of narrative is

not maybe as psychological sophisticated or nuanced as maybe i had expected. >> let me ask you this then because you say that's his motivation is to win. but some people say he's just flat-out mean. what's the psychology behind that, especially with the personal remarks. his opponents, marco rubio, little marco, and all of that. but you also say that his presidency would be highly combustible. >> right. you can't find on the public stage, at least i can't find anybody more disagreeable than donald trump. there are these basic dimensions of personality, one of them is agreeableness. people who are high in agreeableness are humble, kind, caring, modest. he defines the other end of that. and it's a temperament. i'm not saying he was born with it, but it's something that develops very early on in life. and that's his style. >> dan, very quickly because we're running out of time. so you're saying his motivation is winning. but winning what. is it about just donald trump? >> 20 years ago barbara walters did an interview with donald

trump and said if somebody could appoint you president without running for it would you be happy and he said no. it's the race that he likes. if he did win, he's in the oval office and now what, there's no game plan. >> it's like check, check, check, he did it, he won and then what. >> then we've got four years. >> really fascinated to talk to you, wish we had more time. thank you. that will do it for me on this hour of "msnbc live." up next on "a.m. joy" chuck todd. have a great sunday and even better holiday weekend. (war drums beating)

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