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>> good morning, everyone. welcome to "a.m. joy" on this memorial day weekend. donald trump says he's a huge supporter of veterans. remember, back in january when he skipped a fox news debate saying it was because he would much rather host a fund-raiser for veterans and he boasted that he raised $6 million at that event, including $1 million from his own bank account. remember that? well, now as trump prepares to participate in today's rolling thunder event rolling veterans, those numbers are coming into question. that $1 million that trump promised from his own pocket, it took nearly four months for him to follow through. he didn't pay up until monday night after reporters called him out on it. after a group of veterans protested outside of trump tower in new york. when asked why it took so long to make the donation, trump told "the washington post" we have a lot of vetting to do. meanwhile the overall dollar figure from that fund-raiser also kept changing. first it was $6 million. last week his campaign said it

was $4.5 million and trump now says it was $5.5 million. on monday he tweeted amazingly with all the money i have raised for the vets, i've got nothing but bad pub lislie from the dishonest and disgusting media. he told cnn the final accounting of all the money would be released tomorrow, memorial day. joining me now is jon soltz of votevets.org. thank you for joining me on on this day before memorial day, jon. let's start with that fund-raiser. donald trump skipped a debate in order to supposedly raise money for veterans. did your group participate in that? were you guys intending to be a recipient of that fund-raiser? >> we called him a loser straight up for not attending the debate and we basically have said we would never accept his money anyway. our point by this is he's someone who hasn't cared about veterans his entire career. never gave to a lot of veterans groups and all of a sudden when he's in a confrontation with megyn kelly because he doesn't want to debate her, maybe he's

afraid of her, he decides he wants to hide behind america's veterans and host a fund-raiser. our point is don't show up now and be johnny-come-lately and act like you're somebody who's been involved in our community so you can avoid a political conversation with your republican colleagues in a brutal presidential primary. >> jon, you know, obviously donald trump is going to be the republican nominee. he's the presumptive nominee already. one of the presumptions that we make is that republicans do better with veterans, do better with military folks. you wrote a piece for "the huffington post" in which you said a shock poll, trump drastically underperforms with veterans. talk about that a bit. >> traditionally veterans are going to be white, older men voters. and so a lot of that had to do with the way the demographics were, you know, 40, 50, 60 years ago in this country during the draft. so right now you have polls out there. this poll that has donald trump underperforming mitt romney by

40 points with veterans. so we know that he's underperforming with latinos and women, but he should be winning veterans by 22, 23, 24% the way mitt romney did. right now he's only beating hillary clinton by ten points with veterans. what that tells you is his comments about p.o.w.s and not real heros hurt him. the kicking off veterans in front of his hotels hurt him. his islam rhetoric has hurt him and hiding behind veterans and using us as political props by claiming he's donated money he hasn't donated is hurting him with a demographic he should be winning by more than just ten points. >> let's take a little bit more at those polls. trump is up 47-38 in this latest poll by morning consult. that's a may 13-24 poll. if you compare that with john

mccain, john mccain's support was 56-34 and mitt romney was up 58-34, so they were much higher rated with veterans. do you think that part of the problem that donald trump is having with veterans has to do with a comment about john mccain? i want to play that comment for you and ask if you think that has impacted his standing among vets. >> he's not a war hero. >> he's a war hero. five and a half years in a p.o.w. camp. >> he's a hero because he was captured. i hate people who were captured. he's a war hero because he was captured. >> i can tell you that our in organization of vote vets, we take that comment very seriously and there will be repercussions in the general election for that comment. we've spoken to a tremendous amount of prisoners of war who were deeply offended, many who were not political independents, political republicans who were deeply offended by this comment.

people who were shot down, people who fell off ships, people who frankly ran out of ammunition. i think donald trump has often said his personal vietnam was avoiding stds in the 1980s. he had four draft deferments, didn't go. i think that he claims his service in military high school has somehow prepared him to be commander in chief. i think particularly for some of the older vietnam veterans that statement is the beginning of a long amount of issues that have come up where he has been completely inappropriate towards veterans including tomorrow. tomorrow is memorial day. it's the one day we remember the people who died an he's going to announce which organizations he's finally donated his money to and someone needs to explain to him and perhaps he'll learn it dat that memorial day is for the 58,132 americans that are on the vietnam war memorial, four of which probably died because donald trump has four deferments and it's not about him and it's not about his campaign for the

white house, it's truly about just the one day people died and he could have picked 364 other days to announce where he's going to give his money. >> indeed. there's also a piece that "the daily beast" did that talked about a letter that donald trump wrote in 2004 and that he tried for years to ban disabled veteran street vendors from outside of trump tower on fifth avenue in new york. the quote from that piece is in the letter. whether they are veterans or not, they should not be allowed to sell on this most important and prestigous shopping street. by and large, do the folks that you know in the veterans community, do they know those kinds of stories about donald trump. >> these stories are coming out and it's been a drum beat. one of the reasons this donation issue is such a problem because people know that about donald trump. that law has been on the books to allow disabled veterans, veterans who were wounded to be street vendors.

so these are the issues people know about donald trump. i can tell you i met donald trump in 2006. i saw him at an event. i was starting vote vets. we were trying to help veterans run for office. didn't know if he was democrat, republican, independent. i said i'm trying to help veterans running for public office. he turned around and dismissed me saying send me a letter in the mail. that's a very different response than you get when you meet hillary clinton who is extremely respectful to the armed forces and has spoken at length to me about my personal experience and has often told me, jon, you'll never have more responsibility in your life than you did in war. so i think that's the true donald trump in that letter and that's the donald trump that we knew for generations prior to him running for president. >> and, jon, lastly, donald trump is going to participate in the rolling thunder activities. we know that the head of rolling thunder had some choice words for president obama, seems to be supporting donald trump. what do you make of his participation in those rolling thunder activities on memorial day? >> i think it's a joke.

this is someone who obviously isn't qualified to be commander in chief. this is someone who's had policies that have helped our enemies with anti-islam talk and ki disrespected veterans at every opportunity. i find it disturbing that rolling thunder would try to provide him some type of credibility whatsoever. i think you're going to see a very different tone. i think the facts are different and specifically with our organization going forward in this election. we are going to target donald trump extension i've vely. last cycle we spent $8 million alone in u.s. senate races and we will make it -- to try to hurt donald trump because we cannot allow someone with his temperament to be commander in chief. if rolling thunder wants to provide that, we're happy to see them in the debate and look forward to november. >> thank you very much. appreciate you being here. up next, my one-on-one with "meet the press" moderator chuck todd on the state of the 2016

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i spent less. i beat him by a lot. isn't that what you want for your president for at least a little while? >> never a dull moment in this presidential race. earlier this week i got to discuss things with chuck todd. chuck todd, that you for joining me. this news that donald trump has crossed the magic numeric threshold to be the presumptive nominee, first of all, start big picture and tell me what this means particularly for republican party elites that resisted this moment for so long. >> well, look, i don't -- look, i think the moment mattered when ted cruz got out. i think the numerical aspect of

this, okay, it's still to me not -- i think it's not going to be real to those folks until they're in cleveland. and i think it's not going to be real to a lot of americans. i can tell you what it is for me, joy. when i -- i finally pictured anybody as president after they do that acceptance speech. when you start that speech, that's the big moment. i still think that is the first of what will be multiple threshold moments for the american public, as they watch for trump, number one. i think cruz getting out was the first one. the second one is not this week with the numerical clinch, it will be in cleveland. and then that -- the third moment is the first time he shares the stage with hillary clinton. >> yeah, and you know, chuck, i think back to sort of the barry goldwater moment for the republican party. you still did have a certain number of republicans, including george romney, right? there was a type of republican who never gave in, who never

capitulated. is there still a cache of republicans, the jeb bushes of the world, paul ryan, that will stand for their principles and resist this to the bitter end, or is that moment just gone? is everyone just going to cave? >> you know, i assume everybody caves. let me throw in my caveat, though. i thought trump did himself some damage this week with the susana martinez attack. here's the republican governor of new mexico, somebody who was just generically on every vp short list. the idea, boy, the republican party, if they're looking to at least change the picture on their ticket, how about a two-term hispanic republican woman from a purplish-blue state. and he goes and trashes her, which then did what? it brought back all of the never trump crowd. some of them are on board but there are the old never trump crowd. jeb bush, scott walker, paul ryan, marco rubio, all these

folks came out of the woodwork to support martinez, without trashing trump, but to reinforce support for her. and i guess it's a reminder i do think perhaps there will be a chunk of folks, whether they actually show up to cleveland and decide to use that -- the floor to make a point. remember, george romney continued to express reservations on the floor of the '64 convention, i believe with a young mitt romney watching on. i don't know -- mitt romney is probably not going to go to cleveland. jeb bush is not going to cleveland. i don't know if anybody is going to use cleveland as a backdrop to do this. >> what about the fact that you haven't had a single hispanic republican, and we can think of some prominent one, the marco rubios for that matter, not a single hispanic republican has come out and defended or supported donald trump. at some point doesn't he need at least one of them because they still have to close that ethnic gap in terms of just the

demographics in november? >> look, i don't know if any -- at this point how is it going to help? i don't know. i think that's like, you know, the horse has left the barn. there's nothing that can be done on that front. i actually if i were trump strategically, i think you sit there and say, look, i'm writing off colorado, i'm writing off nevada. i've got to figure out another way to win florida. and i would just focus on fixing my problems with women. with suburban women, rather than trying to chase the hispanic vote, which i just don't think is possible for him. >> right now as you were saying that, i picture poor john mccain going into a corner and having some really deep thoughts because if arizona ends up on that write-off list. debbie wasserman schultz has been having as tough a week as you can have. does she wind up being the sa sacrificial lamb to get the bernie sanders on board?

>> i actually think that she would do that, for what it's worth. i'm not going -- i don't know this, but people that are close to her say that, look, she's not enjoying this job anymore. i don't know if she's enjoyed it in the last year. it's been -- you know, it's tough to be the referee. it's tough to be the referee for two candidates, one of which you are a big-time surrogate for in 2008 and to suddenly have to play neutral arbiter. she's been a punching bag. i think in many cases unfairly. she hasn't gotten proper support from the white house during her 10 totenure 10. she hasn't gotten proper support from nancy pelosi. could she have done some things better to improve those relationships? perhaps. but she always was put in a position to lose, i'll be honest with you in, there. in hindsight she probably should have left after the 2012 election. she got him re-elected, get out on a high. but she wanted to serve in leadership in the house and

there was no room for her there and this was the best place to have a leadership position. i do think she will be. i have to say bernie sanders stung in endorsing her primary opponent. imagine if you're a sanders supporter that ran for the senate or earlier primaries where sanders refused to get involved. the first time he will get involved in a primary for somebody that supports him is to deal with a grudge that he has? it was -- i thought it was -- i thought it was the wrong way to handle that on sanders' front. >> and you're also seeing from the sanders camp sort of a preview of their demands. besides debbie wasserman schultz. >> right. >> things about reforming the process that exempt caucuses, having open primaries, and a lot of demands coming down to fixing grudges. what happened to the wall street reform? if he doesn't get back to those things being the demands, does it wind up hurting bernie sanders when he has to head back to the united states senate if

he's not the nnominee? >> he doesn't want to look small in this process. he should use this process to look bigger. so the fights on the platform should be to fight -- he wants to fight to make it free college, not debt-free college, no. no, hillary clinton, i'm fighting you on this. i think you're wrong on this. if he fights on his issues, first of all, his people will stick with him longer. if he makes this about, geez, we need independents that are allowed to vote in the primaries, we should get -- it's interesting the caucuses he did so well in so i don't know if he's ready to get rid of all caucuses. if you do believe that you want to open this process up, i don't think you can sit here and make a case for keeping the caucus process and at the same time say, no, open it up. because it does look like he's just trying to change the rules that would have made his path to the nomination easier rather than changing the rules to make the path easier for democrats to participate. >> yeah. an exit question i've got to ask

about the e-mails. you did have the i.g. report come out. does this wind up dragging into the convention for hillary clinton? or does the fact that, you know, colin powell was equally villified for his use of private e-mail help mitigate that for hillary clinton? >> i think it's just the campaign year mitigates it in this respect. it's baked in. if you care about this issue, you know what you're doing. well, maybe some -- maybe some who don't like this issue but don't like trump don't know where they're going to vote but maybe you've made your decision about how you feel about hillary clinton on this. i don't know if it's going to change anything. but what it does, you know, it's interesting. this should be a disastrous week for hillary clinton. it was a bad week because this happened and what came out of it, but trump is exactly the worst candidate to take advantage of the openings. and his presence mitigates her worst issues. whether it's on transparency

issues. hey, where are your tax returns, trump? whether it's on old, bad real estate deals, whether it's on bill clinton's personal life. there's always a mitigating trump factor that ends up helping her. and helping is not the right word, neutralizes these issues for her. >> this is going to be a heck of a campaign year. chuck todd of "meet the press" thanks, man, i appreciate taking the time. >> loving my "a.m. joy." but i get joy in the p.m. too. >> take care, have a good one. >> thanks, bye. >> thank you, chuck. up next, elizabeth warren goes in on donald trump. >> two weeks ago, he said that he was more than happy to dodge taxes because he doesn't want to throw his money, quote, down the drain. then i say we throw donald trump down the drain. i have a blog called

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in recent weeks donald trump has called massachusetts senator elizabeth warren a big mouth, goofy, hypocritical and derided her native american heritage by lampooning her as pocahontas. trump's increasing warren hysteria has come in response to what could be described as the textbook clinic put on by elizabeth warren in speeches and on twitter on how to troll donald trump. democrats, watch and learn. >> just yesterday, it came out that donald trump had said back in 2007 that he was, quote, excited for the real estate market to crash because, quote, i've always made more money in bad markets than good. donald trump was drooling over the idea of a housing meltdown because it meant he could buy up more property on the cheap. what kind of a man does that? a man so desperate for power

that he will say or do anything to get elected. what kind of a man roots for people to get thrown out of their house? he inherited a fortune from his father, kept it going by scamming people, declaring bankruptcy, and then skipping out on what he owed. what kind of man roots for people to get thrown out of their jobs, to root for people to lose their pensions. he's kissing the fannies of the poor, misunderstood wall street bankers. what kind of a man does that? i'll tell you exactly what kind of a man does that. it is a man who cares about no one but himself. a small -- a small insecure money grubber who doesn't care who gets hurt so long as he makes a profit off it. what kind of a man does that?

a man who will never be president of the united states. >> any questions? coming up, the democrats civil war continues, as bernie sanders continues to battle both hillary clinton and the democratic establishment. more on that, next. (war drums beating) fight heartburn fast. with tums chewy delights. the mouthwatering soft chew that goes to work in seconds to conquer heartburn fast. tum tum tum tum.

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the bernie sanders campaign has picked a kind of inexplicable fight with activists working on hiv and aids. we reported on this show that a group of hiv/aids activists had pressed for a meeting with the hillary clinton campaign after clinton made an unfortunate remark praising nancy reagan for her response to the aids crisis in the 1980s, something she later apologized for. that meeting happened two weeks ago, but a similar meeting the group had scheduled with the bernie sanders campaign was cancelled at the last minute, prompting our interview with hiv/aids activist michael rainor who felt that sanders, who had

criticized clinton for her reagan gaffe was blowing them off. later peter staly did meet with sanders, but the group objected to the sanders campaigns public characterization of the meeting of the they said sanders implied that the group had endorsed a california bill which sanders supports related to the cost of aids drugs, but many actually have reservations about that bill. in an open letter to the campaign, the activists claim that sanders had, quote, misled the public about the activists' stance on the bill and wrote, quote, we are deeply concerned as this now appears as if we were exploited for short-term political gain leading up to the imminent california presidential primary election, unquote. and here's how a senior campaign staffer responded. in an e-mail, staly says he received, sanders senior policy advisor wrote, quote, while we are disappointed in your continued mischaracterizations

and repeated attacks on the bernie sanders campaign, it is not surprising that someone who depends on gilead sciences and other big pharmaceutical companies for funding would continue to drop bombs on the only presidential candidate who has the courage to stand up to the greed of the big drug companies, unquote. well, not surprisingly, staly published that e-mail, and the accusations it makes are prompting responses like this one from prominent gay rights activist dan savage. quote. millions of gay men alive and able to vote today thanks to peter staly. attack on peter from sanders camp appalling. the sanders campaign has not responded to our requests for comment, but we do have peter staley with us and he joins us by phone. peter, thank you so much for giving us a call at the last minute this morning. >> thank you for having me on, joy. >> so, peter, let's start with the accusations made against you in that e-mail that was sent by warren ganells of the bernie sanders campaign.

he's said that you've repeatedly attacked bernie sanders. how would you respond to that? >> well, i wouldn't say that's inaccurate. i've been very public about my support for hillary clinton. i've mostly attacked the very virulent -- the most virulent of the sanders supporters, but i've often praised his elevation of progressive issues i believe dearly in since this campaign began. but it is -- it is drew, i'm very public about being a supporter of hillary clinton. in our coalition that has met with both campaigns, we have supporters of both campaigns. and the co-leader of this coalition, charles king, who's the executive director of housing works in new york, he

voted for bernie in the new york primary, so we -- you know, we're adult activists and we're able to take off our campaign buttons when we're doing aids activism. we've tried very hard to do that during this process. >> and you're looking there at a picture of peter. you can see him on the far right of the screen with bernie sanders having that meeting. peter, you've been very honest about the fact that you yourself are a hillary clinton supporter. what about the accusation that the reason you have a problem with or are not comfortable with the california law because you have a link to the company of gilead pharmaceuticals. do you have any ties to them or big pharma? >> no. i don't quite understand where that's coming from. i do know where it started. the organization that wrote the initiative was aids health care foundation in los angeles, which

is run by michael weinstein. he and i have been, sadly, warring for years because he's a prominent critic of prep, which prevents hiv infections, and it baffles me and other aids activists why he campaigns against a drug that's slowing the rate of hiv transmission. so this is inside politics obviously, but he came out with this attack, personal attack on me after this thing blew up with the sanders campaign and, sadly, the sanders campaign picked up those personal attacks and kind of dittoed them. they have no basis in fact. i have no employer. i'm actually unemployed right now. i'm a harsh critic of gilead and i've posted on my twitter feed many, many of the links of me

harshly criticizing gilead sciences. >> peter, let me just ask you one final question, and that would be we've had no luck getting the sanders campaign to respond to this show regarding this back and forth with you. have you heard from the sanders campaign since you made this letter public on your facebook page? >> no. we haven't. you know, fortunately he deleted his tweet and i guess that's an apology of a kind. but we -- frankly, we would love to get back to the fact that we actually had a fairly productive meeting with the candidate himse himself, and it went well, and he said some great stuff. and we want to continue that dialogue and we want him, as he leads a very important progressive movement in the

future, to keep hiv/aids in the foreground. >> all right. peter staley, thank you very much for joining us by phone this morning, we really appreciate it. thank you. >> thank you. joining me now is joan walsh of the nation, nbc news senior political editor perry bacon jr. and political analyst rick tyler. joan, i'll start with you here at the table. this is sort of a strange sideline to what's been going on in the campaign, this back and forth between these aids activists and the bernie sanders campaign. what did you make of it and the harsh response that they had to their concerns? >> i think there are two things that we've seen before from the sanders campaign. one is that they do have this weird pattern of claiming the endorsement of people. in this case it's the endorsement of legislation. but claiming that people support them or something that they're doing when they actually don't. we saw this legal conservation voters, legal unions, the culinary workers in las vegas.

when they're asked not to do it, sometimes they'll drop it or sometimes they don't. the election where it matters comes and goes and it's been done. the other thing that we see, though, is a pattern of really harshly in a kind of holier than thou way responding to critics. sometimes when those critics are actually in the right. it reminds me of jeff weaver going ballistic when there was the data breach, when it was true that the sanders campaign was the only one that downloaded data. but he gets out, gets defensive, lowers the boom on debbie wasserman schultz and a narrative got going. so they're very, very harsh and holier than thou with their critics. okay, peter staley endorsed hillary clinton, but others support him and others were happy to meet with him. so they took what should have been a positive and turned it into a negative. i've seen it before. >> peter staley and michael raynor also planned a meeting with donald trump. >> that will be interesting. >> they're hoping to have that meeting happen.

they have already met with hillary clinton. let's pivot and i'm going to bring you into this, perry. bernie sanders has done a couple of interviews on sunday shows this morning. let's start with what he had to say on "meet the press." bernie sanders is now being queried about the post-primary campaign. this is what he had to say about what he thinks the running criteria should be for a running mate for hillary clinton should he not be the nominee. >> for democrats to win, they're going to have to address the needs of working people. they're going to have address the needs of the middle class. that means standing up to wall street, standing up to the greed of corporate america, even now and then standing up to the media. and that means having a candidate who can excite working families, excite young people, bring them into the political process, create a large voter turnout. >> and i want to play one more bo bite before i come to you, perry. he was specifically asked about

the vice presidential candidate. this is him further on what he thinks hillary needs to do. >> i would hope if i am not the nominee that the vice presidential candidate will not be from wall street, will be somebody who has a history of standing up and fighting for working families, taking on the drug companies whose greed is doing so much harm, taking on wall street, taking on corporate america, and fight for a government that works for all of us, not just the 1%. >> perry, it does relate a little bit to the peter staley fight because that was about the sanders campaign wanting to put forward their fight against drug companies in california and the activists saying, no, we want to talk about other things. i don't know if he's asking for a veto over the vp candidate but we're starting to see what bernie sanders would want to see i guess in order to support hillary clinton, right? >> the first thing i thought of when i heard that was elizabeth warren and mayor sherrod brown as well. i don't think he wants a veto over it. we're in this process now, and i think sanders by answering the

question can allude to it too where it's assumed clinton will win the nomination and there is some negotiation about who will be her running mate, because hillary has got to try to take all parts of the democratic party and try to unify the party and lead it. but her running mate selection will tell us something about where he shes her weaknesses, where she sees voids available. if she picks elizabeth warren, that shows a lot of respect for bernie sanders' messages and if you pick tim kaine, not as much. >> bernie sanders was asked about tim kaine and he didn't come out directly against the idea. i want to bring in another interview bernie sanders did on "face the nation." specifically he was asked about this question whether the primary process has been rigged, because that's come up a lot during the campaign. let's take a listen. >> what has upset me and what i think is i wouldn't use the word

"rigged" because we knew what the rules were. but what is really dumb is that you have closed primaries, like in new york state, where 3 million people who were democrats or republicans would not participate. where you have a situation where over 400 superdelegates came onboard clinton's campaign before anybody else was in the race eight months before the first vote was cast. that's not rigged, i think it's just a dumb process which has certainly disadvantaged our campaign. >> and rick tyler, the preamble to that was he was being asked whether or not he concurs with the idea that candidate donald trump has been picking up some of bernie sanders rigged system language. it sounds like he's backing down from that. how does donald trump use bernie sanders if bernie sanders is walking away from the idea that the campaign was rigged. >> notice that bernie sanders while claiming that it's -- he didn't want to use the word "rigged" used the word "rigged" and that sounds a lot like what

donald trump does. look, bernie sanders, he's not a democrat loyalist. he has a feeling of blowing up the party that he doesn't -- he's not part of the process and he's on the outside of the process. but look in the end hillary clinton is going to win the nomination and the winner gets to dictate the process. he is trying to hold on to dictating the process as much as possible. at the same time, he's bringing a lot of people into the process, like donald trump, and hillary clinton is going to need those voters to win the nomination. she's going to need the sanders coalition. >> very interesting, the fights over who would be on platform committees and rules committees. sanders didn't win these fights but i think we're going to see these negotiations continue. thank you to perry bacon jr. joan walsh and rick tyler will be back. coming up, is mitt romney the proverbial white knight that could save the republican party from donald trump? that's next.

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it's a lonely road for team never trump, as the gop jumps on board or perhaps drags itself along with the trump train. the holdouts hoping to stop it in its tracks have dwindled from a movement with momentum to an unyielding few, still screaming into the void. among them, nebraska senator ben sasse who "the new york times" reported is one of the last remnants of never trump in a capital slipping into a vortex of the mogul's general election campaign. this week the national review threw its own hail mary with this appeal to one of the proud, the few, still declaring never trump. mitt romney is the only man who combines the integrity, financial resources, name recognition and broad public support to make a realistic independent run at the presidency. a third party romney bid would introduce the chance of a different outcome, giving millions of americans the important option to choose a man

of integrity as their president. joining me now is the author of that piece, national review staff writer david french, and back with me is msnbc political analyst rick tyler. thank you so much, david, for being here. i appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. >> so your piece is putting out the plea to mitt romney. why mitt romney and do you think that he would actually accept that challenge? >> you know, right now the odds are against him accepting the challenge, but we have to make the appeal. the never trump movement, as you're right, is flagging right now but it would receive a massive steroid injection if mitt romney entered the race. he would start at 22%. he would have the fund-raising network. he would have the ability to get on ballots. he would have the ability to make a case. he would be able to call out donald trump not for the offensive things that he says, because that doesn't work. that's been tried for a year. he would be able to call him out for the silly and destructive and stupid things that he says that he will do. and that's -- when he's running for the highest office in the land and all of the things that

trump has said that will risk our national security, risk our full faith and credit, risk our economy, the list goes on and on and mitt romney has the ability to call him out on that in a way few people do. >> do you fear that if mitt romney could come in, and like you say he could start at 22%, what if he didn't get much above that and the race was thrown to the house of representatives, most of whose members have given in to donald trump and simply made donald trump president anyway. do you fear that he could make things worse or not change them at all? >> two things. if it throws them into the house of representatives, as a third party run that would be one of the most successful bids in american history. number two, it would totally change the dynamic at that point. i know for a fact an awful lot of republicans are throwing in for donald trump because they feel there's no other options. in the house of representatives, there's other options and republicans will take that and that's the key of the mitt romney choice. you give all of these people another option. you hear a vote if you're not

voting for donald trump, you're voting for hillary clinton. false. what if you're not voting for donald trump, you're voting for someone you actually believe in, you actually respect and will actually do the right things for this country? >> rick, i'll bring you in on this because it has been confounding to a lot of people to hear republicans say that donald trump is erratic, that he is unpredictable, that they don't trust him quite frankly with the fbi under his charge, with the cia under his charge. he's a vindictive personality. then in the next breath including people like marco rubio, they say but i'll support him. do you believe there are conservatives who if given the option of romney would walk away from their support of trump? >> no, i don't think so. david is right, it would be historic but i don't think mitt romney is going to do it because in a sense it would represent the height of arrogance and hubris. what romney would be saying is i didn't participate in the process but i want to offer myself as the savior of the republican party.

he had his chance. he could have run in the process like everybody else, gone through the whole campaign and perhaps he would have done well and perhaps he would have won, but he didn't. so now to come in and all of a sudden say i want to disrupt the process, that is his right to do it, but i don't think it would be successful and i think it would guarantee that hillary clinton would win the white house. >> would it be hub ris? there is a piece in the "wall street journal" and it says friends warned him don't speak out, stay out of the fray because criticizing mr. trump will only help them. he said they were right. i came his next target. he has no illusions he would alter mr. trump's progress toward the nomination or spark a meaningful independent candidacy. if he has his own self-doubts would it be the high of arrogance -- >> no, i would call it patriotism and a sense of duty. we're talking about a republican nominee who says he could defeat isis by committing war crimes and bringing in exxon.

he would treat the american national debt like one of his casino bankruptcies. he's threatened to blow up the nato alliance. he's actually said this. less extreme statements in the past have led to consequences that have cost lives by the hundreds of thousands. so we're not talking about a normal political process here. that day is past. that is long gone. so i would say, and that's my appeal to mitt romney, forget the normal rules here because we don't have a normal race. why would all the normal rules suddenly start to apply now when they haven't applied for a year. step in out of a sense of patriotism, do the right thing, stop donald trump. >> yeah. we have to go, but lastly, what do you make of bob dole coming out in full support of trump? >> it's disappointing. for mitch mcconnell, for rick perry, for bobby jindal. all of it is a symbol that they don't understand the stakes here. >> david french, hope you'll

come back. rick tyler, of course rick tyler will be back in our next hour. there's so much more to talk about on "a.m. joy." has mitch mcconnell given away the game regarding his party's capitulation to trump. and levar burton joins me to talk about the reimagining of "roots." stay with us. [ brakes screech ] when your pain reliever stops working, your whole day stops. excuse me, try this. but just one aleve can last 12 hours. tylenol and advil can quit after 6. [ cheering ] so live your whole day, not part... with 12 hour aleve. hi! hey! i've made plans for later in case this date doesn't go well. same here. wouldn't it be great if everyone said what they meant? the citi double cash card does. earn 1% cash back when you buy, and 1% as you pay. double means double.

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medina ridge the chosin reservoir these are places history will never forget but more important are the faces we will always remember. ♪ this is who donald is, this is how he does things. at this point i don't think he should change if he's been successful. in my view, i know this. despite all my differences with donald trump, i have a better chance to get a conservative nominated to the supreme court than i ever will with hillary clinton. he is now the presumptive nominee and will be the nominee. i think he has an opportunity to enter a second phase in this campaign. >> welcome back. that was marco rubio earlier this morning on cnn putting primary grievances to the side to fall in line behind donald trump. joining me now is joan walsh of the nation, pollster and radio

host, rick tyler and mitch cesar. i'm coming right to you on this, mitch. there has to be shock from democrats who have fought marco rubio to watch him humble himself before donald trump. what do you think is going on? do you see marco rubio trying to game his way back into his senate seat? what do you think is going on with marco rubio? >> i think it's a game but not about his senate seat. he tried when you first began with the gang of eight, became part of the establishment after bowing elected by the tea party and he ran from them when he took flak. i think it's about his future and not trump's. i think he's trying to be the loyal soldier up to a point he can digest and then after that say, hey, i was with him and if he loses, of course, marco gets to try in another cycle to win. >> but we both know that in

politics being a surrogate means more on going on and saying i'll support him. the trump campaign could press marco rubio into service to go out and try to sell donald trump build a wall guy to hispanic voters. do you think he would do that? >> i think he would. marco rubio has made a career about flipping positions on major issues. it's a constant back and forth and he doesn't seem to have any political concern about saying one thing and the other. that's why a lot of republicanirepublicans look to someone like jeb bush, who has held his integrity, despite the fact donald trump has become more entrenched as the republican nominee but clearly not that much of an issue for marco rubio and the never trump is now maybe trump. >> does it help marco rubio in florida politics long term to be on the trump train? >> i think it all depends on what his ambitions are long

term. yesterday he didn't quite say, well, i'm not going to run for re-election. he introduced a brand new caveat, which is if his friend, the current lieutenant governor decided not to run, he might do it again. i know he's very ambitious in terms of his future. he said he hasn't ruled out an office again some day so i think these calculations are playing with him for sure. >> let's listen to marco rubio on cnn talking about whether or not he might want to run for governor of florida. take a listen. >> being governor of florida is a very important position, but it's not something at least at this moment, and i don't anticipate that's going to change, in fact i'm pretty sure it won't. i don't have at this moment anyway this burning desire to run for that office or some other office. >> before i go to rick, let's go back to you, mitch. do you think that marco rubio would have a shot at being governor of florida? >> i think he would and originally i thought that was part of his game plan. i really don't think so anymore. it ties it down. he has tremendous ambition

trying to live up to the hype. i think then he has to govern and do things. i think that is out of his calculation and i really do believe that the senate is also, he didn't seem to enjoy it. this will give him the ability to make money. if he's governor he can't do that either. and he positions himself as the great soldier in case trump loses. the only he may do is if trump is willing to pick him as vice president. despite all his protests, besides him saying things like he's a con man, trump, i think he'll look at that to show he's part of the structure. in case trump wins, he's number two. if he loses, he's the party guy. >> rick tyler, any chance of donald trump choosing somebody he humiliated as little marco as vp. >> i agree marco didn't enjoy time being in the senate. the problem if he was going to run for re-election for president in 2020 or beyond, it's very difficult to run when

you don't have a platform on which to run by. donald trump has been the exemption to this. everybody else has been a military general or a politician. marco is a politician, but it's very hard to stay relevant when you're not in public office. >> joan, for so many years democrats have had this abiding terror of marco rubio, that he was like the perfect candidate, the person they were most afraid to run against. was the beltway media just wrong about marco rubio or did he somehow fall apart under the glare of donald trump? >> i think that people were wrong to start with, but the trump effect made it worse. but now he's trying to benefit from the trump effect. donald trump has shown that you can flip-flop as many times as you want, you can call people hideous names and then embrace him. he's tried to rehaeblt chris christie and marco rubio is looking at that saying i can do that too. i think it's amazing that he's

gone so far as to say i would be honored to give a speech about him at the convention. i mean how -- how does that work? well, i want to see a good conservative supreme court nominee. i would be honored to give a speech for him. it's so hugh mull yagt. but i think everybody thinks we all live in trumpland. i think donald trump can do that, but i'm not sure marco rubio can. >> with apologies to lloyd benson, marco rubio ain't no donald trump. when he tried to play that card or role in the campaign, he wound up being tagged as little marco as was dispatched in a moment. he always tried to present himself as a more serious alternative to the republican party but here's a very again where i think ambition got in the way of principle. again, i point to how his mentor acted, jeb bush. took a stand, held that stand. marco rubio didn't even take three or four months before he started to walk back what was the never trump movement that he was the person that put out there. >> i wonder if it's former

mentor. that's a whole other segment. we'll have to have you back to talk about that. joan, i'm going to stay with you a little bit and talk about pat buchanan. good ole pat came out with a piece in which he talked about donald trump in glowing terms, especially called him the great white hope. let me graed a littread a littl. angry white male is now an acceptable slur in culture and politics. so it is that people see in donald trump someone who unapologetically berates and mocks the elise who have dispossessed them and despise them. is it so surprising that the donnel as seen by millions as the great white hope. that is who marco rubio is now honored to be down with. what do you make of the idea of this nostalgia pushing the donald trump candidacy, particularly white nostalgia? >> i think it's very real. you see it in all the polling that goes into issues of looking back at a better time as well as racial animus. that's what indicates a trump voter more than education, more than income, it's the answers on

questions of did we have a better country and are we giving too many things away to minorities. but i think the really funny thing for those who read pat buchanan's column today, he makes a big deal out of the increase in white male -- working class whoite male mortality. but as a matter of fact the mortality rate among white working class women is what people are shocked by. their suicide rates have gone up 80% in the last couple of decades. so his article is totally backwards. it's telling us what we need for white working class men. they don't have role models anymore. so white working class women need president hillary clinton as their role model. she should be their hope. it's false from start to finish, the article. >> i want to ask you the same question on that, rick tyler, because you do seem to have a campaign that's coalescing around the idea that you can turn out more white working class men and get over the top with them alone.

you're a republican strategist. is that actually true? >> yeah. look, it's ironic, isn't it, joy? the republican party has worked very hard and i've been part of that effort to attract hispanic, african-americans and other minorities into the party, but donald trump doesn't have a strategy to win the white house that way. in other words, he's not going to get 36% of the african-american vote. that's not going to happen. he's not going to get somewhere upward of 70% of the hispanic vote. that's not going to happen. but what we could get is 3% to 4% more of the white vote. that's what romney needed to beat barack obama and that's very doable. there's two people that have captured the imagination of the working class voter. bernie sanders on the left and donald trump on the right. and if hillary clinton can't keep that coalition with her or worse, they vote for donald trump, he can definitely make those numbers. it's just three people, four people out of every hundred. so that seems to be his strategy. >> let me go to my polling guy.

is that enough, if he gets 59% to get to 62% is that enough? >> i agree, that is the move trump is playing for from the demographic point of view. every time he has an opportunity to try and walk it back or make it right, especially with minorities, members of the electorate, he does something like he did in new mexico. susana martinez, republican governor, hispanic woman, and he basically insults her in her own state. you don't think the hispanic community took very close attention to that? every opportunity he can build a bridge, he burns it. for a lot of folks, they're encouraging that and egging that on. i think that's why rick's point is right on the money. >> the same thing with women. going after elizabeth warren and calling her a loud mouth, doesn't seem designed to get more white women voters. >> rick is right in terms of his strategy, but i think what we're not looking at is that the percent of the electorate that was white was 72% or 73% in 2012. it's projected to be down to 68

or 69 in 2016. so if we do see higher black and latino turnout i think tru is finished and he'll have a harder time with white women than it feels like right this minute from polling. >> i'll give a miefinal word to mitch. can donald trump help marco rubio win florida? >> no. i think trump has done his brand. to piggyback on the other comment, there was a poll that showed romney among white women beat obama by 14 points. he's only leading hillary by 4. a ten-point gap which i think may get worse for trump. i think florida is in play. i think they'll spend hundreds of millions of dollars here. it's going to be very, very ugly like it will across the nation. but marco has ruined his brand and trump has defined marco's brand, so i don't think he's any help in florida. it will be a flip of the coin. >> it's hard to be helpful as little marco, which trump tagged him. coming up, mitch mcconnell

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one thing i'm pretty calm about is that this is nowhere near the most divisive period in american history. but what protects us in this country against big mistakes being made is the structure of the constitution, the institutions. no matter how unusual a personality may be who gets elected to office, there are constraints in this country. you don't get to do anything you want to.

>> the system would constrain trump if he was elected president. according to senator majority leader mitch mcconnell. so, see, they'd have him completely under control. back with me, joan walsh, fer and in and rick tyler. rick, i'm going to go to you first. this idea that the system, meaning the congress, would just constrain donald trump and there's nothing to worry about, when i heard that i thought about a clip from grover norquist and something he said back in 2012 and he was talking about what conservatives want and need as a president. take a listen to this. it's a little long but i want to get your response on the other side. >> we just need a president to sign this stuff. we don't need someone to think it up or design it. we have a house and a senate. the leadership now for the modern conservative movement for the next 20 years will be coming out of the house and the senate, so focus on electing the most conservative republican who can

win in each house seat and the most conservative republican who can win in each senate seat and then pick a republican with enough working digits to handle a pen to become president of the united states. >> now, rick, that was said by club for growth founder grover norquist in february of 2012, ahead of the 2012 election, and he started that speech talking about the ryan budget, saying we want the paul ryan budget that cuts entitlements, that cuts social security, that cuts benefits to welfare recipients and we don't care who we get, we just want a president to sign it. all the power is in the senate and the house. do republicans still believe that and do riepublicans think they could constrain donald trump in that way. >> mitch mcconnell theoretically is right, except that this congress has shown -- has not shown a willingness to push back on the executive branch. there are lots of things conservatives would have wanted this congress to do to push back against the executive branch and the courts, but they have never

done it. they have never gone out to the country and started an argument to start to win these cases. they just go around, counting the votes and say we don't have the votes so the president gets everything he wants. so i have little faith this congress would push back on a donald trump that's out of control. if they are, then they better establish that pretty quickly. but to be fair to paul ryan, and i did work on his -- part of his social security reform, they wanted to have social security reform which allowed people to invest in the private marketplace. >> privatize it. let wall street play with it. >> to get a better return on investment because right now social security, the average return is upside down. by the way, african-american males give away $10,000 of their lifetime earnings to white women for the simple reason white women live longer. >> do you think african-american men would be comfortable having wall street, which we will remember tanked the economy in 2007 and 2008 gamble with their social security? do you think people wolf

comfortable with wall street banks gambling with their social security? >> i know wall street is the brunt of a lot of criticism today. >> they actually just tanked the economy in 2007 and 2008. should they gamble with social security? >> i'm not going to defend wall street, but wall street is the place where all investments occur, including on apple computer and all the products that we like and buy every day and people can invest in those products in some limited, safe way and actually get a better return. historically we know that is true. to deny people the option of being able to maximize their own savings in their social security to have a dignified retirement, i think we ought to look at those things. >> how is apple and twitter stock doing today? does it remain high or does it go up and down? how is twitter and apple stock today? >> right. that's why you want a diversified investment and then you want to allow another you want to look at and have people look at diversified investments that people can choose, not be compelled and choose to have an investment. look, the stock market over time, yes, it does go up and

down, but over time by far has a much greater return than the social security system returns today. >> i'm sorry, i went down a little bit of a worm hole with rick tyler there. the idea, number one, that the congress could just constrain donald trump, that we don't have to worry about it because they'll just rein in him. >> just like the party reined him in throughout the primary process. sure. it's like the dog wagging the tail there, no. tell you what's going on there, mitch mcconnell and all other republican, it's trying to preserve the congress and protect those down ballot races by saying we've been dealt a dud of a hand. it's not as bad as you think. don't not show up and don't pull the line for the republican ballots down the line. even paul manafort said a few weeks ago, donald trump is playing a role here and that role will evolve as the campaign evolves. and now mitch mcconnell is saying that role is changing. don't worry about it, because we can control him. >> do you think that's behind

paul ryan's rhett sense? >> paul ryan does not agree with the good gentleman from kentucky. he does not believe that donald trump is readily controlled. i would also add, yes, paul manafort said that and donald trump quickly proved him wrong and did not come out and start acting presidential once he got the nomination. so i think that people who are claiming this are really either delusional or lying. >> isn't it possible that because donald trump is now representing himself as a conservative republican that he comes in and as grover norquist says, he says, okay, i will give republicans what they want. if paul ryan is able to get a bill to the floor privatizing social security, as rick tyler just put forward, he'll sign it. if they bring a bill to the floor of mitch mcconnell's senate and the house, that says we will ending obamacare and get rid of it or defund it, he'll ti sign it. >> i think he would sign it. i think he would sign a lot of the republican agenda. i do agree with that. i just think there are so many

ways in which he can exercise power that are frightening. i think it's all a matter of temperament, it's all a matter of who he gets along with. and on the war and peace front, he can do a lot of damage. >> the political genius, i think, of donald trump, some would say recklessness, is that he will say and do anything. what's true today may not be true tomorrow and there's a great speed yens that he's willing to shift on from one moment to the next. as long as he continues to be rewarded for that, he's going to continue doing that. who can blame him? i certainly don't. >> rick, is it worth it as a tradeoff to you as a republican that if you can get a president who will ending the affordable care act, he will sign a repeal of it, he will sign the paul ryan budget as you just said you support, he will sign a bill that privatizes medicare, paushlly privatizes social security, is that worth the trade-off for republicans that he's erratic on international security, on international affairs? >> well, look, it's a little

nerve-racking because the president does have extraordinary powers in terms of foreign policy and foreign affairs, intelligence and the military, so that is upsetting. as we've talked about today, he's said a lot of things that are deeply concerning. but i do think if a president trump would sign some of the reforms, look, we've tried the war on poverty. guess what, poverty won. we've been trying to have a just and equitable economic system under liberal policies and i think they have failed. and so why not try freedom. >> so in your view, you think that donald trump would in fact sign the paul ryan changes to medicare and social security? you think that would happen, he would partially privatize social security and privatize medicare. >> it wouldn't surprise you that i'm not altogether clear whether donald trump would sign any particular piece of legislation. >> but you're hopeful that you think he would do it. >> i would like him to. i think it would be a great way to save social security for future generations. it's going to go bankrupt now.

we have a health care system that is really the best in the world, the payment system is really messed up and people can't afford the care they're getting now and their insurance doesn't cover anything now. >> but there are 20 million more people with health care but go on, joan. >> there's no -- >> there's reason not to believe -- donald trump has come out for expanding social security, he's come out against medicare cuts. he knows that his older whoit base likes those two programs so it's possible he wouldn't sign those bills. rick and i might want opposite things but both of us can agree we have no idea he would do. >> on one hand you'll have donald trump signaling he wants to keep social security and the next day he says he wants to cut it. democrats have an asymmetrical warfare here. >> i think the clinton campaign feels like they are being held to a higher standard than donald trump. they are. just like barack obama had to deal with it in 2008.

if they don't recognize there are no rules, they have to outfox the person who has outfoxed the rules, they're going to have problems. >> thank you very much to rick tyler. >> thanks, joy. up next, does trump remind you of any previous presidential candidates? after the break, we'll go back to 1968. stay with us. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ don't let dust and allergies get and life's beautiful moments. with flonase allergy relief, they wont. when we breathe in allergens, our bodies react by over producing six key inflammatory substances that cause our symptoms. most allergy pills only control one substance.

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who's protesting, anybody? oh. get outta here. get them out. get 'em out. >> how old is this guy? get outta here. get outta here. still wearing diapers. look at this kid. >> if you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? i promise you, i will pay for the legal fees, i promise. >> donald trump's takedowns of hecklers have defined many of his campaign appearances. while trump's rhetoric has been compared to many famous reactionaries, i've long said that his true analog is the late

alabama governor george wallace, best known for his staunch opposition to integration during the 1960s when wallace launched his own campaign for president in 1968, drawing thousands to his rallies. rallies which saw violence in and outside. he was equally unafraid to tell his detractors exactly what he thought of them. >> i love you too, i sure do. oh, i thought you were a she. you're a he. oh, my goodness. >> yeah, you need a haircut. there's not anything with you that a good haircut wouldn't refer. you're not a she, are you? you're a he. and i tell you what, i may not teach you any politics if you listen, but i'll teach you some good manners. i'll teach you some good manners. we've got some folks out here who know a lot of four-letter word. but there's two four-letter words they don't know. w-o-r-k and s-o-a-p. >> please let the police handle

it. they got it all right. you anarchists better have your day now because i tell you again you're through after november 5th in this country. i tell you what, you lie down in front of my automobile when you come out here and you won't want to lie down in front of it anymore. you know, the biggest bigot in the world? they are the folks that call other folks bigots. you remember that. they are the biggest bigots in the world. come on down to the selma bridge, come on down and we'll let you jump off, how about that. >> after the break, we'll talk to the original kunta kinte himself with levar burton. [ brakes screech ] when your pain reliever stops working, your whole day stops. excuse me, try this. but just one aleve can last 12 hours. tylenol and advil can quit after 6. [ cheering ] so live your whole day, not part...

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at the center was kunta kinte played by levar burton. we were tofrt catch up with burton to get his thoughts on why the time is right for a new "roots." levar burton, thank you for being here. >> it's a pleasure, joy. >> and congratulations on a really masterful remake of a classic. >> i am really proud of this. yeah. >> you know, in watching it, i was actually taking myself and transporting myself back to when i saw it first when i was a kid. and wondering, number one, why did you feel you had to remake it because the first one was so classic. why do you think it was important to remake it. >> initially i was not. when i heard about the remake, i was like this is not a good idea. but then i got a call from mark wahlberg and he told me his story and it changed my mind instantly. he said he had shown the original to his children and it was difficult to get them to sit

still. they thought it was old, it felt dated. it didn't have relevance to them in their lives. they said, you know, dad, we get why it's important but it's kind of like your music, it doesn't speak to us, right. and so mark said in that moment he realized if he was going to get his children and their generation to embrace this story, that it would be necessary to retell it in a language of story telling that they actually understand. >> yeah. >> and when he shared that with me, i was like, okay, i get it now. >> absolutely. and obviously his father, having produced the original one, he took really great care with it you can tell. what was it like for you just as an actor and somebody who embodied the character of kunta kinto to watch maliki embody that same role? >> he is remarkable. i couldn't be happier with the actor and the person. he's such a remarkable human being. he's like a son and a brother to me, all in one. and i'm very excited. >> and so one of the things that

is striking about the new one is the amount of time it's taken to show kunta kinte in his home and his development into a warrior and spending time with his parents and the culture. >> the richness of life for kunta before his capture and before the middle passage. we actually do have an opportunity to spend more time and that was, again, another reason to redo this, to really cement his life before he was enslaved. >> and one of the things that we -- you know, it's interesting. as i was getting ready to come in here today, the wonderful person that did my makeup, we were talking about the fact that the idea of revolt and rebellion is not played up enough for african-americans to understand the history of enslavement in a way that also builds in resistance. >> yes. >> so how important was it to have that scene of resistance that also builds up the character of kunta?

>> critical. and it didn't make sense to come and revisit this material unless we were going to take advantage of certain opportunities. and the emphasis really is this time around on resistance and rebellion as a pathway to redemption. >> yeah. the film is hard to watch, i'm just going to warn people, it's very difficult to get through it but it's so important to revisit the history but it is hard. probably the hardest part because there's so much buildup of who kunta was as a warrior, to watch this sort of breaking of this character. it was hard when i watched it as a kid. it was in a way harder to watch it now. >> it's a pivotal scene for the character. it really does encapsulate everything that we know and love about this character. his insistence upon holding onto the only thing he has remaining to him, his identity and the name that he was given at birth. and it is a brutal scene to watch. i mean 40 years ago when i shot

that scene, i didn't have the emotional response that i do now when i watch maliki enact those moments. every time i see it, i break down. because i'm a witness now as opposed -- i'm an observer as opposed to the participant. and it's powerful. it's a powerful moment. i get why kunta has become this sort of international symbol of the indominantability of the human spirit. >> and as african-americans there's always a burden placed on us to get over this idea of enslavement and look past it. do you think that that's even possible, because so much of the residue of that is still in our culture? >> yeah, i'm really tired of hearing why don't you just get over it. look, this is a part of our history, our common history for both black and white america. and i'm really hoping that we can, through the conversation

that this will inevitably inspire, that we can have that conversation, that dialogue act the guilt, act the shame. our period of enslavement as black people in this country is one that has been traditionally full of shame because we have been conditioned to feel that way about ourselves for the entire time we've been a part of this experiment called america. and so we really need to put that aside, right? white america really needs to put the guilt aside and say that has nothing to do with me. if you're american today, if you live in this country and are participating in this democracy, no matter what color you are, this is your stourry. >> one of the most important scenes is when one of the african-americans coming across that passage says the shame is not ours and it's really powerful. talk about this idea of shared experience. when "roots" first aired, there were three networks essentially. it was an experience that the whole country shared.

when i got to school after that first night of "roots," everybody had seen it. >> and everybody was talking about it. >> how do we come to a point where we can have that shared experience with something as polarizing and as frightening to front where people say i'm not going to watch that and pretend it didn't happen. >> we need to have the coverage, we really do. it is an act of courage to watch "roots" because it is pain. it is discomforting, it pushes our buttons, and we still have to have the courage to go through that experience and share it with our families. share it with our children. >> yeah. >> in an age appropriate manner. we have to tell this story to ourselves. number one, so that it doesn't happen again. and number two, so we can really reflect on what are the aspects of racism and the vestiges of slavery that are still holding us as a society, holding us back in the now, right? where are those links, and what will we discover if we take --

have the courage to look at ourselves. what will we discover that is not a good look, that isn't pretty, and maybe needs to be adjusted. >> one of the sort of early parts of the film, the topic of greed is addressed in it and i think some people who are looking at politics now will be interested in that. talk about the idea of having this remake, which by the way is rich in history. historians were involved in recreating it in a way that's historically accurate. what's the significant of having it redebut in the midst of this political season where race is so much a part of the dialogue even in the presidential race? >> we couldn't have predicted the timing of this release, it wasn't on our radar. but as we progressed through the process and this conversation began in the zeitgeist of america, it was clear that our timing could not have been more

perfect. >> and what do you hope is the biggest takeaway that people when they watch this multi-part series, beautifully redone, by the way, what is the big takeaway you want them to have? >> i think for young black kids, it is the idea that there is no shame in having come from an enslaved people and that your identity does not begin at slavery, it began on the shores of the motherland. it began long ago and far away. and that the dna that you possess is actually the best that africa had to offer, because it was the survivors of the most atrocious acts in history that you spring from. those survivors are who your forefathers are. and then for white americans, it's like we just have to -- there's where some getting over one's self perhaps has to happen. get over the fact that this is a part of your history too and you can want to disassociate yourself from it and i understand the impulse, but it's

not helping to deny. >> yeah. and you are in so many ways an educator. obviously a lot of the work that you've done outside of this particular film has been about educating people. this film has done that, and thank you for bringing it back to us and for helping to bring it back to television. thank you. >> like i said before at the top, i'm really proud of this. i hope everybody watches, and watches with their family, and that we do create a conversation that is rich and deep and, again, absent the anger, absent the fear, absent the shame, act the guilt. >> indeed. i screened it by myself and i plan to rewatch it with the entire family. they so much, it's a pleasure always to talk to you. they so much for levar burton. don't miss it tomorrow night at 9:00 p.m. eastern on the history channel. up next, some good news for voters in a critical swing state. don't go anywhere. amazing is moving like one.

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okay. some rare good news for voting rights. this week a federal judge in ohio handed down a ruling that could protect voting rights. the judge found that the state unconstitutionally disenfranchised black voters when ohio when it eliminated an entire week of early voting. during what's known as golden week, voters could register and cast their ballots all at once. in the 2012 presidential election, 80,000 people voted during golden week. as the judge noted, african-americans voted during golden week at 5.5 times the right of white voters. the secretary of state has filed an appeal but if golden week is reenstated, it will be good news for the ohio black voters and have a critical impact in the swing state in november. our panel will be back to tell us this week's news headlines. stay with us. paramedic. the value of nissan's... [safety beeping] intelligent safety shield technologies. whoa! like forward emergency braking that could stop your car for you. save even more with holiday bonus cash this memorial day,

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what will be the top headlines next week?

>> i think it's judgment week, joy. by the end of the week, i think we're going to know the answers to three questions. question one, will paul ryan finally endorse donald trump. i think we're going to know this week. will debbie wasserman schultz remain as chairman of the dnc. finally, will marco rubio break his pledge again and decide he really wants to run for the senate after all. i think we're also going to know that by the end of the week. >> i'm going to put the pressure on you. let's start with ryan. does he endorse? >> yes. >> does wasserman schultz keep her job? >> yes. >> interesting. >> by the convention in july. >> and does marco rubio run for a seat? >> i think he'd like to. i don't think he will. i think this is an opportunity he's going to have to step

aside. other candidates have maintained they're not going to get out either. and he may lose the primary. >> if he lost the seat, it would be double hue mmiliation. >> we've had two very conflicting polls. one of them showed secretary clinton only up by two points. that poll will be very important if bernie sanders is close or even perhaps ahead, there will be a whole new round of hand-wri hand-wringing. >> do you think the clinton campaign made a strategic error by not debating bernie sanders one more time in california? he got free media. he went on every night show. do you think they made a mistake? >> i don't think they made a mistake. i don't think any front runner in this position after this many

debates really would be expected to do that. the level of acrimony was higher than the level of disclosure. i think we know what we need to know. >> time magazine said that in the end the bernie sanders campaign has been net positive for democrats because it kept the energy of liberal and socialist forces inside the tent. do you agree with that? >> i do. we'll see what happens at the convention, but mostly i agree with that. any time you can take the message to california, new jersey, the last states, i think that's a good thing. >> let's move from the depressing subject of politics to the far more depressing subject of cleveland sports. lebron james is going to try to break a 160 season streak of cleveland sports teams not winning a title.

it's so bad there's even a wi wikipedia entry called cleveland sports curse. this is a lot of anguish on the line here. >> it's going to happen in cleveland -- the finals are going to take place around the time of the convention. was this planned this way or was it a mistake? >> think of the double pain of cleveland if lebron james and the cavaliers lose to steph curry and then they have to watch donald trump, the worst major party candidate be nominated on that same soil. i can't imagine the agony. >> lebron coming back to cleveland, this was like a big coup but who could have thought that suddenly the golden state warriors would be a thing? >> they're unbelievable. they have a chance. but i'm going to say this, the curse will likely continue and

probably in the most heartbreaking way possible. so i'm going to say game seven curry wins it with a half court shot at the buzzer and the curse continues. >> are the cleveland cavaliers a metaphor for american politics today. so exciting and so electric and show business oriented but so tragic and so sad. >> the cavaliers are doing so much better than american politics really. >> do you guys expect unrest in cleveland? >> i do. i really do. it's not going to be within the convention halls. i think it's going to be more outside the convention halls. and i think we've seen the prelude to this with some of these ugly rallies around the country. i'm a little concerned actually. and i think it's going to be incumbent on donald trump to show what he's all about, to set

the tone. does he ratchet it up or temper it? >> his brand is he does not back down even when he's being foolish and provocative and inciting violence. that's his brand. i think there will be unrest and violence. i pray it won't be as bad as 191 1968 but i think it will be the worst since 1968. there's going to be provocateurs on both sides who want this to be an explosion. usually when there's two sides primed for a fight, guess what happens? a fight. >> in the '60s entertainers, athletes, sport figures really stepped up in terms of the civil rights movement. it will be interesting to see if lebron and other members of the cleveland cavaliers get

involved. >> some of it helps donald trump. the pictures of people throwing things at cops, et cetera. >> one of the other big questions is whether or not there will be unrest in philly. that's a whole other show. >> that will be inside the convention hall. >> thank you guys. that is our show for today. have a great memorial day. we will see you back here. up next alex witt with senator diane feinstein. when we breathe in allergens, our bodies react by over producing six key inflammatory substances that cause our symptoms. most allergy pills only control one substance. flonase controls six. and six is greater than one. flonase outperforms the #1 non-drowsy allergy pill. so you can seize those moments, wherever you find them. flonase. six is greater than one changes everything.

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those hot dogs look good. oh yeah, hebrew national. they're all-beef like yours but they're also kosher. is that a big deal? i think so. because not just any beef goes into it. only certain cuts of kosher beef. i guess they're pretty choosy. oh, honey! here, have some of ours. oh! when your hot dog's kosher, that's a hot dog you can trust. hebrew national good day, everyone. i'm alex witt here in new york. here's what's happening right now. tropical depression bonnie has made land fall in south carolina. in texas, flood warnings in effect for austin and san antonio at this hour. so far four are dead, two others missing in