but more important are the faces we will always remember. ♪ this sunday, a this sunday, a rough week for both likely nominee. for hillary clinton, it was that report, contradicting her statements, old and new, about her e-mail. >> well, it was allowed, and the rules have been clarified since i left. >> for donald trump, it was an unprovoked attack on a popular republican latina governor. susana martinez for new mexico. >> she's not doing the job. hey! maybe i'll run for governor of new mexico! >> this morning, my interview with the only candidate still viewed favorably by the voters, bernie sanders. would you take the call if hillary clinton asked you to be her running mate? plus we have seen the polls be tight.

but how tight will they be if sanders gets out. the true state of the presidential race. also, before donald, there was arnold. arnold schwarzenegger, be one-on-one, on the state of the republican party in the age of trump. and joining me for insight and analysis are robert costa, kellyanne conway. gerald seib and near candidate, president of the liberal think tank, center for american progress. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." from nbc news in washington, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning on this memorial day weekend. this holiday weekend, we pause to take a look at this head-scratching presidential race. let's admit up front, every year some people are upset with the major party choices they have for president. and it's always this hold your

nose business, lesser two of evils. and we push through it. but how did we get here? how did we get to the point, where on one side, hillary clinton would be the most unpopular nominee in history, if not for the fact that donald trump is even more unpopular? there are many possible answers to that question. but it's undeniable this week both candidates seem to be doing whatever they could to make matters even worse. and while we're all asking what does this mean for november, maybe we should start asking, what does this mean for january? >> thank goodness for e-mails. i love e-mails! frankly, what hillary has done is criminal, folks. it's criminal. >> donald trump, harping on the clinton e-mail scandal that won't go away. this week, a state department inspector general said hillary clinton did break the rules,

that she never asked for permission to use a private server, and would have been denied if she had. the report contradicts what clinton has said before and since. >> well, it was allowed. and the rules have been clarified since i left about the practice. >> the problem for trump, he has his own transparency issues. >> my question is really simple. if you have paid federal income tax, show us. >> just 19% of voters give clinton good ratings for being honest and straight forward. but even fewer say trump has the right temperament to be president. trump is putting clinton's vulnerabilities on display.

>> hillary is a disaster, folks. she has bad judgment. that was said by bernie sanders. he's given me a lot of my best lines. >> and trump is trying to drag the clintons back into the '90s, reminding voters of bill clintons affairs and sexual misconduct. >> nobody -- nobody perhaps in the history of politics was worse to women or abused women more than bill clinton. >> but trump has had his own affairs. >> can you imagine how controversial that would be? think about him with the women. how about me with the women. >> this week, trump exposed republican divisions, mocking his party's most prominent latina politician, new mexico governor, susana martinez.

>> she's not doing the job. hey! maybe i'll run for governor of new mexico! >> and in-fighting within his own campaign, firing his recently hired political director. still, so far trump appears to be a candidate coated in teflon. not so much for clinton. one difference is how each candidate deals with their vulnerabilities. trump almost embraces the attack. >> i end up with a lawsuit and it ends up in san diego in federal court. and i figure, what the hell? why not talk about it for two minutes? should i talk about it? yes? >> while clinton struggles to explain. >> the information that we had is out there. it's been clearly public, and my e-mail use was widely known. >> bernie sanders, of course, is presenting himself as the more acceptable alternative to both hillary clinton and donald

trump. i got the chance to talk to him yesterday, just after he held a rally in santa barbara, california, in advance, of course, of the june 7th california primary. and i began by asking him about his difficult past to the democratic nomination. let me start with -- a simple question, but maybe a complicated answer. how do you win? senator clinton has basically declared herself the nominee. the math is certainly very much in her favor. explain to me how you're the nominee in july in your head. >> fair question. and i think we take three -- there are three paths to victory. number one, i want to go into the convention with more pledge delegates than secretary clinton. and that's going to be an uphill fight. because we're 270 or so delegates. and then we've got 46% of the pledged delegates. what i want to do, and i think we can, is win california here, and win in a big vote. do very, very well in the other five states. and i believe going into the convention, if we can do this, with a majority of pledge delegates is a very symbolic victory. second of all, we're going to talk to those superdelegates in states where we have won landslide victories. 60, 70, 80% of the vote to say do what the people in your state want. they voted for bernie sanders. you as a superdelegate should follow their wishes. third point and most important

point. as you know, chuck, there are over 400 superdelegates who came on to secretary clinton's campaign eight months before the first ballot was cast. before anybody else was in the race. before they could get a sense of what the campaign was about. right now in every major poll, national poll and statewide poll, done in the last month, six weeks, we are defeating trump, often by big numbers, and always in a larger margin than secretary clinton is. we're going to make the case to the superdelegates, your job is to make sure that trump is defeated, that bernie sanders, in fact, for a variety of reasons, not just polling, is the strongest candidate. >> senator, in your answer there, you're basically contradicting yourself on the issue of superdelegates in this way. you're saying you want them to respect the vote in their state. then at the same time, you say, but oh, by the way, for those of you that are a superdelegate in a state that clinton won, why don't you think about the general election. it's -- it's a little bit -- hypocritical to be on both sides of those issues. >> no, no, no. no, no, no. that's not what i'm saying. what i'm saying is, there are over 400 superdelegates who made a decision to vote for secretary clinton before anyone else was in the race. before they got a sense of what the campaign was about. and all that i am saying is to those superdelegates, who came on board before i was even in the race, you have got the very grave responsibility to make sure that trump does not become elected president of the united states. and it's not just the candidate. if you look at the momentum and energy and enthusiasm of our

grass roots campaign, it will result in a high voter turnout. and democrats and progressives do well when the voter turnout is high. republicans do well when the voter turnout is low. i think our message of income and wealth inequality, the fact we're the only major country on earth not to have health care for all people is resonating. it will win the general election. >> is it fair to say then, if you don't win california, you believe your campaign is over? >> no, that's what you said. i didn't say. what i said is obviously california is very, very important. 475 superdelegates. obviously, if we don't do well in california, it will make our path much, much harder. no question about it. but i think we have a good chance to win in california. maybe win big. and maybe win four or five of the other states that are up on june 7th.

>> but without a california victory, you can't win a majority of pledged delegates. and obviously you will once again not succeed in a big state with a diverse population. it's going to be a hard -- it's going to be hard for you to convince democrats to go with you without a california victory. fair? >> hey, look, chuck. california is the big enchilada, so to speak. obviously, enormously important and obviously we want to win it. but let me just tell you something. my campaign is written off before we started. nobody thought we would do anything. we have now won 20 states, primaries and caucuses and by the end of the process, we may win half of the states. so you know, we're going to fight until the last vote is cast and the last -- try to appeal to the last delegate that we have. >> last week with me secretary clinton said when it comes to party unity, she is doing her part, she's going to do her part. but that the response -- there is a responsibility that falls on you, as well.

if she is the nominee, that you have a responsibility to do what it takes to bring your supporters on board with her. do you accept that responsibility? >> well, the responsibility that i accept in a very, very serious way is to do everything that i can to make sure that donald trump will not become elected president of the united states. donald trump, for a dozen different reasons, would be a disaster as president. i will do everything that i can to make sure that does not happen. but at the end of the day, whether it's secretary clinton or bernie sanders or donald trump, anybody else, the way you gain support is through the candidate himself or herself. so my job is to make sure that trump does not become president. and i will do that. but it is -- if secretary clinton is the nominee, it is her job to reach out to millions of people and make the case as

to why she is going to defend working families and is the middle class. provide health care to all people. take on wall street. deal aggressively with climate change. that is the candidate's job to do. >> i understand that. but do you -- you just said you want to do whatever it takes to top him. you don't believe you need to be out there telling your supporters, you may not be happy with hillary clinton, but she's beer than him. >> well, no question about that. no question about that. but where my mind is right now is to do everything that i can in the remaining -- for the remaining caucuses and primaries to try to win them and make the case. but if your question is do i think that secretary clinton is significantly a better candidate for america, than is donald trump, that is not a debate. of course that is true.

>> do you think hillary clinton needs a clean bill of health from the fbi before she accepts the democratic nomination? >> well, i have said many, many times that i'm trying to run a campaign based on the needs of the american people. and that it's raising the minimum wage, the $15 an hour paid family and medical leave. making public colleges and universities tuition-free. >> i understand that. >> those are the things american people are deeply concerned about. so i have not gotten into the e-mail situation at all. there is a process unfolding. there is an investigation that is going on. it will play out. we'll see what happens. >> i understand that. but do you think for the -- for the democratic party and for super delegates, do you think it's important for them to find out what the fbi is going to do before the vote in philadelphia? >> well, that's not the decision of superdelegates or anybody else. that's the decision of the fbi. i have no idea when they are going to make their report public or come up with their conclusions. but do i think that whenever that happens, if it happens, that that will be an issue that donald trump and the republicans will seize on? i think there is little doubt about that. >> you know, you told the "wall street journal" in november that if clinton's practices foiled public records requests or compromised information, those were valid questions. the state department ig report said just that. what was your reaction to that report and does that trouble

you? does that add to your list of issues that you believe she has a judgment problem with? >> well, again, you know, these are areas that i have stayed away from. there is a process people will draw their conclusions from the inspector general report. but, again, you know, i think the american people are tired of that type of politics. and i think the media and the candidates are going to talk about why the middle class is in decline and why we have massive levels of income and wealth inequality. those issues are more important to the american people than some issues you have been talking about. and those are the issues i focus on. i just gave a speech here in santa barbara. it wasn't about e-mails. it was about the future of the american middle class and how we

deal with the fundamental problems they're facing. >> do you think it's -- do you have a problem when some of your supporters are quoted in the "new york times" saying they're sort of rooting for an fbi indictment when it comes to clinton? do you tell your supporters not to talk that way? >> the "new york times" -- i will tell you. i have a real problem with the "new york times," which from day one has been trying to be dismissive of our campaign and be very negative of our campaign. you can go out and talk to millions of people and you get any response that you want. we are going to defeat our campaign is about defeating secretary clinton on the real issues. you know, i want to break up the wall street banks. she doesn't. i want to raise the minimum wage to $15. she voted for $12. she voted for the war in iraq. i voted against fracking. she does not. i believe we should have a tax on carbon and deal aggressively with climate change. that is not her position. those are some of the issues i'm on. do a front page story, that's a problem for the "new york times," not for my campaign. >> i want to ask a little bit about the platform and the democratic party issues, platform is coming up. a couple of your appointees when it comes to the issue in israel,

including cornell west, he refers to the palestinians as the plight of an occupied people. do you agree with his characterization? >> what i believe is that the united states is going to be playing on a level playing field in dealing with israel and the palestinian people. i am 100% pro israel in the sense of israel's right to exist. i lived in israel. i have families in israel. israel has the right to live not only in peace and security, but to know that their very existence will be protected by the united states government. on the other hand, i think if we're going at lasting peace in the middle east, the united states has got to respect the needs of the palestinian people. they cannot be pushed aside. so that is my view. and, you know, other people can say whatever they want. that is my view.

>> what do you want the platform to say? do you want to refer to the palestinians as an occupied people? do you want to say that israel is -- >> well -- it's a little bit -- we're a little bit early about worrying about the wording of what the democratic platform will be. we've got some good people on our platform-writing committee. but i think at the end of the day, there will be a general recognition by the entire democratic convention that, of course, israel's right to exist in peace and security is not in debate. but on the other hand, the palestinian people's needs must also be respected. i have the feeling that while the media wants to make this into a great conflict, i think there is going to be brood consensus within the democratic convention on that issue. >> fair enough.

on friday, you warned secretary clinton she better -- if she ends up the nominee, that her running mate essentially better not be a conservative or moderate type of democrat. if she wants to win over your supporters and certainly have your enthusiastic support. do you consider someone like tim kane falling into that category, the virginia senator, that he's conservative or moderate to be on the democratic ticket? >> again, you know, chuck, i don't want to shock you. but i think we are once again into a little bit of speculation. i have known tim kane for years. i really like him very much. my point was, for democrats to win, they're going to have to address the needs of working people. they're going to have to address the needs of the middle class. and that means standing up to wall street. standing up to the greed of corporate america. even now and then, standing up to the media. and that means having a candidate who can excite working families, excite young people, bring them into the political process. create a large voter turnout. and when we do that, we're going to win the election. so i would hope, if i am not the

nominee, that the vice presidential candidate will not be from wall street. will be somebody who has a history of standing up and fighting for working families, taking on the drug companies whose greed is doing so much harm. taking on wall street, taking on corporate america, and fight for a government that works for all of us, not just the 1%. >> would you take the call if hillary clinton asked you to be her running mate? >> right now, again -- here we are in california. i'm knocking my brains out. >> yes, you are. >> to win the democratic nomination. that's where i am right now. what happens afterwards, we will -- you know, we'll see. but right now, my focus is on winning the nomination. >> that was a very politically -- a political type of answer that says you're not answering the question. fair enough? you're not ruling it out. >> well -- what i am saying right now is our focus is on winning the democratic nomination. >> senator bernie sanders from santa barbara, california. thanks for coming on. stay safe on the trail, sir. >> thank you very much. and later in the broadcast,

my interview with arnold schwarzenegger on the state of the republican party in the age of trump. meanwhile, throughout the morning on this memorial day weekend, we honor the men and women in uniform who have died in the past year in service to our country. starting with conflict zones like afghanistan. ♪ uh oh. oh. henry! oh my. good, you're good. back, back, back. (vo) according to kelley blue book, subaru has the highest resale value of any brand. again.

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and we are back. and we are back. panelists, gerald seib, neera tanden, president of the liberal think tank and a member of the platform committee for hillary clinton. republican pollster and strategist, kellyanne polls and robert costa of the washington post. neera, bernie sanders, is that still an opponent? an aggressive opponent of hillary clinton, bernie sanders that you just heard? >> i thought he made a lot of great points. i welcome that. he does seem to really focus on the general election, and which will be against donald trump. and i think he made -- he made clear that that is the paramount concern for democrats.

we face a person who is sort of an unprecedented person in history in the general election. and i think he'll be clear about that when this primary is over into june. >> that sounds great, but it's not true. he is running -- to me, senator sanders is the most aggressive against secretary clinton. he's won 20 states, 10 million voters and counting. >> sure. >> and he now wants to kick off your platform committee, members like barney frank and former congressman and governor malloy. he's an open warfare with the democratic national committee. >> why doesn't he drop out? look, as long as -- so long as bernie sanders is playing, robin, to donald trump's batman, these guys are waging a two-front war street front against hillary clinton. >> absolutely. i heard that, and that's definitely why her negatives are where they are. but the point here is that i was on hillary clinton's campaign eight years ago. and it was a hard-fought campaign at this point. and then just as the primary ended, hillary endorsed obama and was a strong champion for him and united the party. >> i thought what i heard in that interview was the terms of the merger being negotiated.

here's what it's going to take. you've got to be respectful of me. >> the "wall street journal" by the way, terms of the merger -- we all played a stereotype. >> you've got to be respectful of my people and pick a vice presidential nominee that i can live with. what he didn't say when you asked him, do you have some responsibility for making your supporters back hillary clinton. ultimately, he wouldn't go there. maybe it's too early. but that's the real question for me, is will he tell his people you've got to go there. >> i think he's already doing that by what he said here. >> he seems pretty confident when it comes to the platform that he's going to get people on this committee. but the way he answered the tim kane question, he praised senator kane, but not an

enthusiastic. of he wants a progressive in there. it's not about the platform, it's about who is on the ticket. >> part of this week, by the way, there is hammering in the democratic party world. and i will give that quote of the day this morning, the campaign manager for hillary clinton. it wouldn't be a general election without some early bet wetting from washington insiders. >> a company exclusive. >> exactly. there is a reason for it, gerald seib, and how she has dealt with the e-mail controversy. >> i know people have concerns about this. i understand that. but i think voters are going to be looking at the full picture of what i have to offer. >> you know, the fact is, people have official accounts, they have personal accounts. and when it comes to personal, people don't want their personal e-mail accounts made public. >> it was allowed, and the rules have been clarified since i left about the practice. >> "new york times" editorial board, bernie sanders' favorite

newspaper these days. the nation should not be judging leadership as to who is less untrustworthy. she has to answer thoroughly and candidly. they don't want to do this, gerry. >> no, they don't. the hope is that it would go away. i also think the belief is that the candid answers continue to get her into trouble. i tend to agree that the word candidly, the best approach is to say, look, here's what happened. you all know what happened. there is no mystery left in this. i did this because i did want some privacy. it was a mistake and let's move on. that probably won't be sufficient. we all know the big issue yet to come isn't what the inspector general of the state department says. it's what the justice department says ultimately. and what happens when she is interviewed by the fbi which is almost certain to happen. >> what we saw this week is her insert herself more into the national political conversation, making taking a cue from donald trump. appearing on different programs, calling into shows, trying to not just have some rote answers. she knows this is going to be a combative general election.

>> i'm curious what your take on this is. the two ways they deal with her baggage. here is donald trump, who actually decided to talk about trump university and he attacks the judge. here he is. >> i have a judge who is a hater of donald trump. a hater. he's a hater. his name is gonzalo curiel they ought to look into the judge. what he is doing is a total disgrace, okay? but we'll come back in november. wouldn't that be wild, if i'm president and i come back to do a civil case? >> kellyanne, when you attack a federal judge that's in the middle of dealing with a case you're involved in, you might get headlines like this one in the "washington post." judge bashed by trump orders release of records and suddenly in the next two weeks, a whole lot more trump university. now, he does handle his baggage a lot differently than hillary clinton does. will it eventually catch up to him? >> no. and ask the 16 republicans who ran against him in the primaries. and we see that hillary and her surrogates really recycling those same arguments, including trump university. here's something donald trump has mastered, which is very surprising to all of us. for somebody who has never run for office before, he understands that old maxim, define yourself before you're defined. and he puts all of this out there himself, chuck. so when the voters hear it for the 15th time, it doesn't strike them at brand-new information. let me just say this one other thing about hill it's a very s the vas the sta obama administration. this is his justice department looking at this. >> neera, i'll give you a chance to respond. >> where can you -- we did have a lot of news this week about donald trump.

and i would say, you're right. that he was able to defeat the republican primary. but that does not mean that he will do well in the general election, because he has the highest negatives of anyone. he has just this week, we have learned all kinds of new information about him, including what we'll learn next week. he'll never return his taxes, he's -- he was betting on the housing crisis, essentially. let me say one more thing about hillary. it's a very unusual place for her. she does best when she can blame the right-wing conspiracy for her perils. this is the inspector general of the state department of the obama administration. this is his justice department looking at this. >> i'll give you a chance to respond. >> where can you respond? i mean, we did have a lot of

news this week about donald trump. i would say you're right that he was able to defeat the republican primary. but that does not mean that he will do well in the general election because he has the highest negatives of anyone. last week we learned all kinds of new information about him including what we'll learn next week, he'll never return taxes. he was betting on the housing crisis essentially. and i think the idea that he's teflon is ridiculous when he has the highest negatives of anyone running for president. >> he's actually the nominee of his party. >> yes, and he will soon. >> all right. >> and then we will see. >> we will take a pause, because we'll be returning. we'll be back in a moment with a man who knows a little something about running for office as a celebrity outsider. my interview with arnold schwarzenegger about donald trump and his new poll in advance of the june 7th california primary. new poll i advance of the j and as we go to break, we continue to honor those service members who died in conflict zones just in the last year. more from afghanistan. ♪

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welcome back. this election isn't the first time someone well-known for being an entertainer found himself in a position of political power. the state of california has brought a few of them to us, including george murphy. he became a u.s. senator. and, of course, ronald reagan. you may have heard of him. you can say our next guest helped prep this generation for taking an entertainer seriously as a political player. arnold schwarzenegger served as the governor of california from 2003 to 2011 and joins me now. governor schwarzenegger, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you, chuck. it's wonderful to be back.

>> you know, this has been a year for outsider candidates. it's obviously something you're familiar with. many people have made some comparisons of your candidacy in 2003 and donald trump's today. what similarities do you see, and what are the differences? >> well, i think that, you know, i don't really study that much, you know, what is the difference between donald trump and my candidacy. i study much more the field polls and schwarzenegger polls that we have just done about what do the people really think, and what is the main interest in the people's minds when they -- when we have our election now on june. so that is -- june 7th. this is really my interest. and this is why we did the polls, and this is why we really

came up with this wonderful study. and they were quite interesting. i think when you look at it, there are important things that come out of -- 69% of the people want our politicians want our people to work together. i think this is the message. that democrats and republicans to work together. and this is why people are very upset about washington today. >> you know, i want to play something that you said in 2004 about what made you a republican. and then find out if that still holds today. here it is. >> then i heard nixon speak. he was talking about free enterprise, getting the government off your back. lowering the taxes and strengthening the military. listening to nixon speak sounded more like a breath of fresh air. i said to my friend, i said, what party is he? my friend said, he's a republican. i said, then i am a republican. >> can you comfortably say that today, with donald trump as the standard player for the republican party? >> i comfortably can say i'm a republican and i will be a republican, because the republican party is a big -- there were not always things i agreed with or they didn't agree with me many times. but the fact of the matter, the explosive -- everything you have

heard is exactly the same. and i think that -- but what is more important about it is what do i think? and about donald trump. if we talk about the bigger issue, and this is what do the people really feel. and the fascinating thing about the poll was that both democrats and republicans found that most important to really improve the economy. and to create more jobs. when it comes to social security, to save social security. and to really take care of public schools and they are concerned about the public education in general. those are the kind of issues that democrats and republicans are concerned about. of course, they have different ways of solving this problem and depending on if they're democrat or republican. >> well, let me ask straight forward. are you ready to support donald trump for president? i know you were a john kasich supporter. are you going to support trump, and will you go to the

convention in cleveland? >> chuck, to me the most important thing is to talk about the latest poll numbers and how the people of california feel, and how the people in america basically feel. because i think it is important that we go and bring both of the parties together. the more we go to the left and the more we go to the right, i believe what president eisenhower said. the left and right represents the gutter and the middle is drivable. and i think this is where the action is in the middle. i have seen it in the governor of the state of california. i have seen firsthand that only when we brought democrats and republicans together we could really solve very important issues. i remember that's how we really started rebuilding california, and $60 billion in infrastructure. that's when we go and created the commitment to reducing our greenhouse gases for 25% in 2020. great stuff happening when both of the parties work together. >> governor, i can't help but notice, though, you're avoiding

saying anything about trump. you're not saying you're for him, you're not saying you're against him. you're trying to stay out of it. i get it. but is that what you're trying to do here, but you not saying anything, you're actually making a statement. >> no, not really. because i try to stay focused. remember, there's one thing that i have learned over the years when i promoted body building and fitness and movies, to stay focused. so today i want to talk about our poll numbers and our polls that we have taken, the field polls that the usc schwarzenegger institute released this past week. i want to talk about that. because that is important for the state of california. it's important that the people know how they feel and in which direction to go. and also it will help the candidates to listen to the people carefully. and not to deviate from that and to really talk about those very important issues since we have the primaries coming up in california. i think the presidential candidates, whoever they are, have to address those issues. >> and finally, i want to ask you a question about your native country, austria. what was fascinating is, you

could argue they had an election which came down to somebody from the far left, maybe similar to a bernie sanders, and someone from the far right, a nativist of sorts. and nobody was happy with their choices. all of a sudden, this country is experiencing an appeal of a socialist and the appeal of a nativist. what lessons do you think americans should take away from this? >> i think that it is pretty much in many different countries i've seen that. that they're looking for an outsider. and people are with the status quo and people are dissatisfied with the action that has been created in those capitalists. that politicians are not keeping their promises and politicians don't solve problems. and this is why you see in our poll numbers that 69% of the people say the politicians have to work together. that is the most important thing. and they have to come to a

compromise. and in washington, not much is getting done. some of it is getting done. but not much. and i think that to spend billions of dollars on the capital, it is the worst investment, because nothing is getting done. so therefore, the people are looking for something else. and they don't know where to turn to. and so this is what you see in america and this is what you have seen in austria and this is what you see in germany and this is what you see in france. and you see this all over the place. >> all right. i'm going to ask you one last time. do you plan on publicly saying whether you'll be for trump? >> i will make an announcement before the election. you can be sure of that. but i will do it my way. which is always an unusual way. as you remember, i announced my candidacy for governor on "the tonight show." which is unusual. and so i will study the very different candidates, what they represent. and, you know, i will then make up my mind and i will make the endorsement. so i will make an endorsement,

but it will not be here, because then that would be the headline. >> well, i guess you're saying we're too usual of a place to do this. we're not unusual enough. so governor schwarzenegger, it was a pleasure, sir. thank you very much for coming on. >> thank you very much for having me. when we come back, is the clinton/trump race as interesting as the polls indicate. one of the candidates may soon get a very nice bump. that's next. ♪ ♪ alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪

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republicans starting to get behind their nominee. and recent polls, of course have shown a tight race. the question is, is this tightness something that's going to last until november, or is this a current sanders phenomenon, meaning sanders supporters aren't coming home to the democrat. if history is any guide, we think that's what it is. clinton should -- say they're incidence against trump but not ready to vote for clinton. call them the sanders-only voters. we'll show what they could mean. let's start with our latest nbc news "wall street journal" poll. we see a close race. 46-43. while sanders double digit lead against trump, 54-39. it's an eight-point gap between clinton and sanders. so what happens if clinton gets about 70% of that difference? if you leave trump's number as-is. well, clinton's lead would jump five points to 51-43. same phenomenon in other polls. cbs "new york times" have clinton starting with a

six-point lead over trump. they, of course, had sanders up 51-38. but if you shift the support from sanders, clinton would pick up another three points and the lead would increase to nine. 50-41. finally, we'll show what happens in the fox news poll. where clinton actually trailed trump by three points. 45-42. sanders led trump in their poll, 46-42. you do the same thing. clinton would pull even. to 45-45. the point is, sanders is hurting clinton right now. by the way, in 2008, barack obama picked up, you guessed it, three points against john mccain in the first cbs news "wall street journal" poll. the polls are tight right now. that's not a surprise. but this gives you an idea if democrats do rally around their nominee, what the race may look like just before the conventions begin. we'll see if that actually happens, though.

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let me bring the panel back. let me bring the panel back. the biggest political story of the month maybe taking place right now, the libertarian party convention. don't laugh. i know, because their place on the ballot could be none of the above, if that's possible. and, in fact, we noted -- what would happen if you have a third party candidacy like the libertarians who could get 10%. here's the battleground map here, the states we know will be in play no matter what. those are the purple there, ten

states there. if the libertarians can get ten, we think arizona, missouri and indiana suddenly come into play perhaps for clinton. and then two blue states to put in, minnesota and maine, under the same scenario that those are states that suddenly get put into play for trump. gerry, do you think the libertarians will make a splash this year? >> i think they could. as you know, in our polling, "wall street journal" nbc news, we found so many respondents asked about a choice between hillary clinton and donald trump responding. i won't vote in that race that we had to create a new answer. if those people find some place else to go, even if only to make a statement, it could be a significant enough number to tip some states. >> kellyanne, are you nervous about the libertarians? >> yes, because i think hillary clinton gets to 43% before she gets out of bed in the morning, but getting her to 51% seems to be roiling her. this convention, based on the public report, saying bill weld is confusing libertarian with liberal republicans. >> what's interesting, you gave me a segue. let me first show you, there is

a primary of sorts that is taking place. they had a debate last night. first let me give you a little of gary johnson, the 2012 nominee, former new mexico republican governor, who is trying to be the mainstream libertarian nominee this time. here he was yesterday. >> the libertarian party is growing. what i'd like to do so is, i'd like to fill up your current weekly meeting that is occurring in the tree house to an auditorium. here it is. we're in a threshold here, a real threshold to grow this party and to make it better. >> so that's gary johnson's argument. here's a compilation of some of his opponents on that debate stage. >> i believe in a world where gay married couples can protect their marijuana fields with fully automatic machine guns, baby. >> as a physician, i think it's a very good idea to have two

separate bathrooms. one for people who wash their hands, and one for people who don't. >> everything should be as legal as tomatoes. i think people are smart enough to know, not to give heroin to a child unless under the direct supervision of a doctor. >> robert, there actually is a real chance what kellyanne was bringing up where gary johnson could get rejected business hi party and then libertarians are not a factor. >> he could. when i was on capitol hill this week, they're inching close to the idea of maybe supporting a libertarian ticket but then they watch these candidates and realize it's an imperfect vessel. they're considering libertarian, but they don't fit into that culture. >> neera, where do you think this sort of neither -- the none of the above folk goes? does it go to greens and libertarians and sort of split? do they not show up, does it go down and not up? is. >> i think actually a lot of the negativity of this race is designed to lower turnout. that's trump's strategy to be so negative that it lowers democratic turnout.

i think what's going into this race, it's a crazy year. so if it's not johnson and somebody else, i think that still could attract some republicans, even though you would think that some of these statements would disqualify them. >> we shouldn't forget, there is another place, the none of the above vote could go to the green party and that some of the sanders voters could drift there. >> we have a history with democrats, which is ralph nader, and a lot of people feel ralph nader -- republicans don't ask. >> if you look at trump as a noninterventionist on foreign policy. some of the rand paul supporters have drifted toward trump, because they see the main republican party -- >> actually, kellyanne, trump would be more comfortable in the libertarian party. >> the libertarians are comfortable with trump as their nominee. none of the above this year is no more outsiders. who is the change agent. and i don't think there's a single hidden hillary vote in this country. i think there are hidden trumps. >> i heard that it's a fascinating debate.

i've had people swear there is hidden hillary votes on the right. hidden trump votes on the left. we'll find out in november. we'll be back. 45 seconds end game segment with a look at what a trump-sanders debate would look like had it happened. and our colleague got access into america's drone warfare operation. and a sitdown with the cia director, john brennan, to talk about our country's drone strategist. you could watch that report on assignment, which airs tonight at 7:00 eastern, 6:00 central on nbc. central on nbc. coming up, "meet the press" end game. brought to you by boeing. building the future one century at a time. building the future one centur it's more than a network and the cloud. it's reliable uptime. and multi-layered security. it's how you stay connected to each other and to your customers. with centurylink you get advanced technology solutions, including an industry leading broadband network, and cloud and hosting services -

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and it was president obama overseas in japan. an historic visit hiroshima. but he was asked about what foreign leaders of the g7 meeting are saying about donald trump. here's what he said. >> it's fair to say they are surprised by the republican nominee. they are not sure how seriously to take some of his pronouncements. but they're rattled by him. and for good reason. >> gerry, there's a couple unusual things about that statement. number one, that he did it overseas. and there was some criticism, was that appropriate or not. at the same time, trump embraced the attack. >> yeah, exactly. well, it was just what donald trump does. a., you do hear that a fair amount from people who go overseas. u.s. officials and business

leaders, frankly, do tell me they get the same thing. b., it also suggests that barack obama is raring to go to campaign for hillary clinton against donald trump. he does not want his legacy to be named donald trump. >> except i thought he was saying president obama said later on in there, the quote eventual democratic nominee, leaving open the possibility that it may not be hillary clinton. so i didn't hear him say -- i haven't heard him say that he's campaigning for hillary clinton and he's endorsed her. he said the eventual democratic nominee. why? >> we'll see in a few weeks. i think he went through his own experience, which is we had a long democratic primary years ago. and then hillary was really -- i expect president obama to be campaigning in the fact that his numbers are up now -- >> that's what's -- talk about the bernie sanders bump in the poll. once president obama gets on the campaign trail and you see the republican party, elders in the republican party, are not with trump. >> that's been amazing. president obama -- nobody has benefited more from this topsy-turvy primary campaign than barack obama. >> and the clinton campaign people will tell you most of the trump rise in the polls in the last few weeks has been consolidation of the republican vote. and she will get her share of

that when there is a consolidation on the democratic side. >> this might be donald trump's high watermark. 42%, 43%. she has more room to move. but may be the case. >> we do have two conventions. and i think we know where the race will be right before the convention. the question is where will it be after. but we're not going to get trump-sanders debate. but we thought we would put together a facsimile. here it is. >> we're going to run against crazy bernie. >> donald trump is toast. >> this socialist last communist. >> it is not a wild socialist idea. >> he's a crazy man. >> but he claims -- he claims to be a billionaire. >> a lot of the bernie sanders people have said they're voting for trump. >> we defeat donald trump by

very large numbers. >> big, big, huge victory. >> a yuge voter turnout. >> huge victories all over the place. >> yuge. and i mean yuge. >> pay-per-view, would you have paid? >> oh, yes. >> yeah? >> in a minute. >> would that have been worth 25 bucks? >> i think so. and hillary odd man out. but yet it didn't happen. >> i don't understand, robert -- why didn't trump say yes to this? >> trump's explanation, he doesn't want to go against someone he thinks is going to come in second in the democratic race. but trump is a showman. >> i was stunned. >> sanders is a gifted debater. maybe he recognized he couldn't handle it. >> a lot of downside for trump, i think. >> i don't know. the only person who would be a loser is hillary clinton. we shall see. oh, well. maybe for another campaign. that's all for today, though. we'll be back next week, because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." it's "meet the press." -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com

good day, everyone. we're live at msnbc headquarters here in new york. it's 3:00 p.m. on the east. high noon out west. and this is what's happening this hour. trump takes them all. the gop nominee in the nation's capital speaking at the rolling thunder rally aimed at honoring our nas's heroes. a judge ordered release of documents and the polls. in it to win it. bernie sanders refusing to give up on the democratic no will nation. continuing his push to win the golden state primary. but addressing the hopes if he's unable to beat hillary