he has a right to run. >> all right, so a slight change of plans. we were running a countdown clock to talk to hillary clinton, which as you see, has not happened, she's been running late. so that does it for this hour, i'm chris hayes. i'll be back in three hours with "all in" at 8:00 p.m., where we'll show you that interview with hillary clinton. first, the libertarians running mates gary johnson and bill weld are up next. "mtp daily" starts next. >> if it's tuesday, just how never trump are you? meet the ticket of ex-republican governors who think they are the answer. tonight the libertarian ticket joins for their first joint interview. johnson and weld. this is shis "mtp daily" and it starts right now.

>> good evening, i'm chuck todd in washington. welcome to "mtp daily." first of all, a few programming notes, hillary clinton is running late with chris hayes. the minute she does call in, i am -- we are going to show you chris hayes' interview with hillary clinton. but everything is running a little bit late. just want to get you updated on that. let's talk about this wild day as usual in american presidential politics. what we saw earlier today from donald trump could best be described as press conference porn. trump's morning press conference was splashed all over the airwaves all day long and he ripped the press who cover him, furious at the scrutiny over millions of dollars that he believes he was always going to give to the veterans charity. the press fired back. it was a spectacle. but let's be real. this dog fight with the press is not the most important story of the day, of the week, of the mon month. it's just happening today with

his face on it. the more important story took place over the weekend. in an environment ripe for a third-party challenger, we have a third-party ticket, the most viable on paper, by resume, that you could come up arguably since ross perot, if not before that. and this ticket is the only viable, never trump ticket that can get on all 50 states. it's former new mexico governor gary johnson and his running mate bill weld. they'll join me in a moment for their first interview since locking up the libertarian nomination. people like bill crystal, who talk about recruiting a third-party challenger to knock out trump in november. crystal was at it again this weekend, suggesting the conservatives have found an impressive independent candidate. it doesn't matter. that person can't be on the ballot in 40 states, let alone 50, unless that person is gary johnson and bill weld. they're the only ticket left that can go 50. folks, crystal is now basically

trolling the media by continuing this month-long tease. bottom line, if you're really never trump, you have two choices -- hillary clinton or gary johnson. this weekend johnson and weld were officially chosen as the libertarian ticket after a bizarre convention in florida. they're being touted as the party's strongest ticket ever and on paper, they are. two former republican governors, who will be on the ticket in all 50 states, competing against the two most unpopular candidates in the history of modern polling. and both of them have embraced being anti-trump role models. after winning the libertarian nomination, johnson wasted no time in attacking trump. >> what can we expect from you in terms of taking him on in a general? >> well, taking him on on the fact that he wants to deport 11 million illegal immigrants. taking him on, on wanting to build a fence across the border. that's nuts. taking him on when he says that mexican are murderers and

rapists. call him out on what's really racist. it's just racist. >> meanwhile, bill weld is unloading on trump's immigration rhetoric, by invoking the holo kauft. he said, i can hear the glass crunching on kristallnacht in the ghettos of warsaw and vienna when i hear that rhetoric, honest. >> trump's been firing back, saying, i don't talk about his alcoholism, so why would he talk about my foolishly perceived fascism? okay. and today trump took aim at both johnson and weld. >> look, gary johnson got 1% of the vote last time. i watched that whole situation, it was really pretty disgraceful. i think it's a total fringe deal. i think he's a fringe candidate. if you want to know the truth. i look at him and watch his motions and i watch what he says. i think that he's a fringe candidate and your second, weld, when you do a little research on that, i think it's not going to be a factor. >> johnson responded to that

attack today. donald trump calls me a fringe candidate. strangely enough that's what he was called a few months ago. interesting point there. i'm joined now by the libertarian ticket, gary johnson and his vice presidential running mate bill weld. gentlemen, congratulations and welcome to "meet the press daily." >> thank you, chuck. >> thank you, and i think trump had it nailed today, we've been fringe candidates our whole life. republicans winning in heavily democrat states, being fiscally conservative, socially liberal, he nailed it today. thanks, donald. >> let me ask you this, governor johnson. do you believe that the best way for you to get to your 15% is just to relentlessly attack trump? that really this is about being the republicans that republicans can stomach for a while if they can't stomach trump? >> absolutely not, no. i have no intention, neither of us have any intention of

attacking trump or hillary. but, you know, from an issues standpoint, absolutely. the stuff that he's saying. i think he's said a hundred things that would have tubed any other candidate. but here he is. i think you hit it right, right at the top. it's just another day with donald trump's face on it. and what's he said today? turn the page to tomorrow, there will be something else. >> for what it's worth, i would agree with gary that the donald has our number in what he said today. we've never bought into this anti-choice, anti-gay, you know, let's have your personal liberties censored. we've never bought into spending money like there's no tomorrow so we can hollow out our economy abroad and domestically and hollow out our military. so that puts us right in the center. i guess if we're in the center, we must be fringe candidates. >> be careful with the armadillo. governors, i want to pause for a

second. we have more presidential candidates than we know what to do with today. and you get the treat of being able to respond to what hillary clinton has to say. let me pause here. chris hayes, my colleague, has hillary clinton on the phone. chris, take it away. like i said, we have so many presidential candidates, we don't know what to do with them right now. so you go, then we'll go. >> i like this format. we'll get a chance to hear more from gary johnson and bill weld in just a second. right now, joining me on the phone is secretary of state hillary clinton. are you there? >> i am, chris. can you hear me? >> i can. thank you very much for calling in. i wanted to start by asking, donald trump today said that the press should be thankful to him, to mr. trump, for giving -- raising $5.6 million for veterans charities. he said, what is hillary clinton doing? what is your reaction to what happened at trump tower today? >> well, i think the problem

here is the difference between what donald trump says and what donald trump does. you know, he's bragged for months about raising $6 million for veterans and donating a million dollars himself. but it took a reporter to shame him into actually making his contribution and getting money to veterans groups. i, of course, over the course of my life, i've not only donated personally, but i have worked to provide hundreds of, you know, millions of dollars over time to help our veterans by what i voted for, what i've worked for. actually, john mccain and i helped raise funds for the intrepid fallen heroes fund to build a rehab built at brook army medical center in san antonio, so that our returning wounded vets could get world-class treatment. ever since i was first lady and in the public eye, i've worked to help victims of agent orange still suffering from the

mysterious illnesses from the first gulf war, get help, when no one else would listen. i worked on the armed services committee to raise death benefits for families, from $12,000 to $100,000. i worked with senator lindsey graham to expand health care benefits for the national guard and reserve and have worked in every way i could in my public capacity to honor the service and provide the support that our veterans deserve. >> let me follow up on this aspect of it. there's been a tremendous amount of criticism directed at the va for a variety of issues. chiefly wait times at va hospitals, but a whole set of logistical challenges veterans have faced. you have talked about how you see yourself inheriting the obama administration. in your mind, is the care and the performance of the va under this president acceptable?

is it an acceptable performance from the va? >> well, chris, i've been clear for months that the problems at the va are unacceptable. and i have been outspoken on that. i've obviously worked when i was in the senate to help veterans and their families. i think we've got to tackle some of the problems that have come to light. i don't agree with republicans who want to use the problems as an excuse to privatize the va and hand it over to the private insurance system to deal with terrible challenges like ptsd and traumatic brain injury and the like. i think we've got to, and my plan that i put forward, provides for the va to purchase more care from the private sector, but to act more as a guide and guardian for veterans, coordinating their care and ensuring their health outcomes

and i've been very proud and humbled to work with a lot of our veterans' advocates and activists to try to make sure that, if i'm fortunate enough to be president, i will come in immediately with a plan as to how we're going to deal with the problems that we've unearthed in the va, and do it in a very focused manner. >> you have -- your campaign has canceled some events you were going to do in new jersey, which votes on june 7th, along with california. headed instead to california. there are people who are interpreting that as a campaign that is nervous about winning california on what is a sort of big final day, except for d.c. are you nervous about california? >> well, i'm feeling, you know, very positive about my campaign in california. we are working really hard. i was proud to get governor jerry brown's endorsement today. but i want to cover as much of the state as i possibly can. i will be in new jersey tomorrow. i'm really looking forward to

that. actually i'll be there for an event tonight. so we are competing everywhere. but i have been struck by some of the challenges that california faces, like the drought, which donald trump said the other day didn't exist. and so i am spending time talking with citizens, with experts, with people who have lots of good ideas. i really want to be a good partner, not just to california, but the entire country. but i think california has some particular challenges and i'm going to be campaigning up and down california, meeting with people and then putting forth, you know, my ideas about what i can do as president. >> donald trump and republicans have made a great deal of both the i.g. report on e-mail use, but more than that, they've invoked the specter of the fbi quite often. and so i need to ask you, you have been contacted by the fbi

about an interview regarding the e-mail situation? >> no, we do not have an interview scheduled. and i just want to say a word about the recent report. you know, actually, the report makes clear that personal e-mail use was the practice under other secretaries of state, and the rules were not clarified until after i had left. but as i said many times, chris, it was still a mistake. if i could go back, i would do it differently. and i understand people who have concerns about it, but i hope voters look at the full picture of everything i've done in my career, and actually the full threat posed by a donald trump presidency. because if they do, i have faith in the american people that they will make the right choice here. >> one final small follow-up on that. there's just one line in that i.g. report that stuck out to me. i wanted to get clarification. the i.g. found that subordinates of yours had told people to stop

asking about your use of private e-mail. that was a striking phrase. is that true to your knowledge? >> i do not know who that person is or, you know, what that person might have said, because it's not anything that i am aware of. i e-mailed with hundreds of people. and i e-mailed department officials directly with my e-mail as other secretaries have done. i certainly never instructed sbn to hide the fact i was using a personal e-mail. it was obvious to hundreds of people, visible to the many people that i was e-mailing throughout the state department and the rest of the federal government. >> madam secretary, thank you very much for making yourself available today. appreciate it. >> thank you, great to talk to you. bye-bye. >> talk to you soon. all right, chuck, it's an unusual day. >> it's an unusual day, thank

you very much. and we now are back to your regularly scheduled program. >> and more importantly, back to another presidential candidate. perhaps this is a preview for later in the fall. chris hayes, well done. we'll see you at 8:00. let me bring back gary johnson and bill weld. if you get on the stage with hillary clinton, how would you have responded to her just now? >> when she talks about the va, i think there are some real opportunities to privatize the va and its functions. bill weld and i plan on running as a team here. i think bill wanted to weigh in on that one. >> i was just going to say that when they came back from world war ii, they had two sets of needs, education and health care. education, they did probably the most successful program in political history, the g.i. bill. on health care, they went the other way. command and control, one size fits all, government operated, that's the only place you have

to go. if that had been a voucher program bilike the education solution, things might be different now. it's not president obama's fault. it's no one president's fault. everyone realizes that the desire of the people working at the va hospitals is at the top of the country. but very few people would pretend the level of care and the speed of care is the same in the private sector. >> it's interesting that you brought up voucher. and either one of you want to answer this, it's fine. but in many cases, it's clear, governors, your mantra is to shrink government. i want to say, are there seven cabinet agencies you would eliminate at this point? do i have it right? >> well, and of course -- >> let me finish the question. governor weld brought up vouchers, giving the money directly to the veterans, letting them choose how to use it.

how do you say, we're going to hand you the money and hope the private sector doesn't do what they did with the pell grants. you're getting a pell grant, and we'll raise it to $60,000 a year because we know we have the free government money coming? >> well, you covered a lot of topics there. >> i know i did. >> but i'm running to be president of the united states. so at the end of the day, congress either submits to me and i either sign it or veto it. count on me to sign any agency that they want to eliminate. but for a second, let's talk about the department of education. the department of education gives every state about 11 cents out of every school dollar that every state spends, but it comes with strings attached. so it's a negative to take federal money. you got to accomplish a, b, c, and d, to receive federal money, but it costs you 15 cents to do

it. so there's a great example of an agency that shouldn't exist. i think people think the department of education was established under george washington. it was established under jimmy carter and what value has it had since then? you're talking about education and the high cost of education. what's responsible for that? i'm going to argue that that's a guaranteed government student loans, that if we would never had guaranteed student government loans, tuition would be half of what it is today. >> health savings accounts are a great way to empower people to make their own decisions about their health care choices and to say those should not exist is to say we don't trust people to make decisions about themselves. we think only government can make decisions about what's best for individual people. man, that is part and parcel of a lot you've heard from government for a long time. and i'm afraid people have gotten brain-washed. if we treated the delivery of care to the va with some equivalent of a health savings

account. you don't have to call it a voucher. i know that's a dirty word for a lot of people. but the question is, should government steer, or should it grow? >> i've always it should steer and let the people do the rowing for themselves. >> governor johnson, can you explain to viewers why you got booed for saying you would have voted for the '64 civil rights act at your libertarian convention? >> well, first of all, when it comes to conventions, i say the same thing regardless of whether i have a democrat audience, republican audience, libertarian audience, so i think i get booed from everybody in every audience. but i think the majority of people are sitting on their hands saying, whoa, there's an adult voice in the room. so, you know -- >> but this has been a disconnect between some libertarians for a long time. rand paul got into some hot water about this. what is it about the '64 civil rights act that some libertarians get upset with?

>> well, first of all, i would have signed the '64 civil rights act. i don't think we should -- i don't think we should condone discrimination in any way whatsoever. but here's the distinction that libertarians make. they make the distinction between government not being able to discriminate, but businesses being able to discriminate, the right of personal choice. >> right. and i assume that you believe businesses shouldn't be able to do this, whether it's on the health care law or on, obviously having to do with restaurants and things like that? >> well, i just like to apply it to both sides of the aisle. look, you got the customer, let's not discriminate against the customer. you know, is the business owner being done harm? well, it works both ways. look, we shouldn't be condoning discrimination in any way whatsoever. and it would require new legislation that would allow discrimination that currently is not allowed for under law.

so i don't want to have any part of it. >> governor weld, you or one of our successors in massachusetts, governor charlie baker announced today that if a bill hits his desk that is designed to protect transgender, protect the rights of transgender, that he would sign that law. would you? >> oh, sure. absolutely. i was the first guy out of the box in 1991 on gay and lesbian issues, ten years before anybody else would touch it. so count on me. >> we're the fringe candidates, chuck. we are really the fringe candidates. >> except, i'll give you one more news tidbit. all this stuff about secretary clinton's use of e-mail accounts and the report that came out and how she might get indicted, i'm not buying. and i used to be head of the criminal division of the justice department of the united states. >> what does that mean, you're not buying? >> i i'm not buying it. you can't indict somebody if there's no evidence of criminal intent and i don't see any evidence of criminal intent. >> finally, how much money are you spending on this campaign?

it seems to be that weld is on the ticket to finance or raise the money? >> it will be raising. it won't be personal financing, i assure you. i would say, i think we have to raise at a minimum, tens of millions of dollars to get to the place where we want to be. if we get momentum and gary gets over that 15%, i think it could go well above that. >> and i have to ask this last question, governor johnson, because it was an interesting quoet that your running mate said about you when i asked him about what qualifies you for commander in chief. governor weld, you said, he has the spirit of the sky? >> i said, straight from the sky. something like that. >> governor johnson, what does that mean to you? >> i just, bottom line, take it as a compliment. and let me just tell you, bill weld has been a role model for me. i wanted to grow up and be like bill weld. he was declared fiscally the most conservative governor in the country. when he served, we overlapped and i took over the title when

he left. so this is beyond my wildest dreams, bill weld as my running mate. >> that goes both ways. >> i have a feeling this won't be the last time we hear from you. thank you both for coming on. let me turn now to california. we are one week out from the primary. hillary clinton, as you heard her talk with chris hayes, cancelling some previously scheduled events to set up camp in california. but the results there likely won't impact whether or not she reaches the threshold to become the nominee. but a win in california does cut off sanders' last rationale to remain in the race. that would be a boost in the polls for her if he exits the way she did in 2008. today she got the endorsement and super delegate support from california governor jerry brown. a nod of support that comes with a wait and a lot of history. look at this classic moment from the 1992 battle between one bill clinton and one jerry brown.

>> he is funneling money to his wife's law firm for state business. that's number one. >> i don't care what you say about me. but you ought to be ashamed of yourself for jumping on my wife. >> ralph nader called me this afternoon, read me the article from "the washington post." i was shocked by it. >> does that make it true? >> grudges are slow to heal. very slow in that case. bill clinton backed brown's then gubernatorial primary rival in 2009. newsome eventually decided not to run because he couldn't beat jerry brown. but all bets are off in an election year. gray davis joins me now to discuss this. governor davis, i guess some old wounds do finally heal. were you surprised that it took governor brown this long, or are you surprised he did it before the primary? >> i'm actually pleased he did it. i'm not surprised.

i think his letter says it all, chuck. hillary is the best qualified person to implement the vision that she is bernie share to deal with income inequality and get wages rising again. i'm thrilled he did it. i look forward to hillary coming out here and spending five days. obviously she wants to win california and that will be a very good sign heading into the convention to give her extra momentum. >> you had an experience, sort of, running against a celebrity turned politician, i say sorta. there were 180 of them running in that whole bizarre, the way that worked. but obviously you struggled to sometimes breakthrough and yet here you were the sitting governor, and the attention was being paid to gary coleman, or arnold schwarzenegger, or huffington, whoever was running in the moment. what's your advice to hillary clinton, because she's running against somebody who understands media in ways that you mere

elected officials are not as experienced with. >> just to be herself. i mean, hillary clinton is a doer. i remember in the '90s, she got the children's health insurance program passed, chuck. when i came into office, it was 50,000 people covered, when i left a million. at least nine million kids in this country got health insurance, some of their parents did as well. she wasn't even in office. she was just first lady. so whether it was helping people in poverty, making sure minorities can vote or getting health insurance, even when she was not in office, she made a difference. when she's in office, she's going to make an even bigger difference. >> so you think she's -- i don't want to say making a mistake, but she's phoning in now to more shows. you think she's trying too hard? just go back to being who she is? >> no, i think, look, she has to do what she thinks is right.

but at the end of the day, we'll have a choice between someone who's never held public office before. the last person to do that, chuck, was dwight eisenhower and he had something to do with winning world war ii. before that, it was woodrow wilson in the '20s. is it possible donald trump could be president? yes. but is it likely? no. because at the end of the day, we need someone who knows what they're doing from day one, whether it's fending off a threat from our enemies or doing what has to be done to reduce the cost of college. i'll give you one example. put all the courses from the colleges and universities online so people who can't afford to be in a seat in a given line can take it online. it will reduce the skills gap, increase the gdp, people will make more money, feel better about themselves. so there's a lot of ways to accomplish the goals and she's the best at imp limlementing th shared vision and she and bernie have. >> i want to ask you to look at

it from the outside in. california, i feel like, from i'd say 1990 up to 2010, you guys political tumble is a tame description. never mind your experience, prop 187, arnold schwarzenegger, all those things. it seems we were told california is ungovernable. now after going through all of this mess, everybody's like, okay, maybe we should let the state govern itself, rather than trying to do this by referendum. is that what america's got to go through? everything you went through for 20 years before we'll finally sort of trust government again? >> well, i can only speak for california, and california has the benefit and the burden of the process. which means, people can pass a law anytime and enough signatures can put that on the ballot and folks will vote for it. so the combination of having jerry brown, who is now a wise old statesman, with a lot of

accumulated experience, and some helpful actions by the legislature, for example, they passed an initiative a few years ago that said if the budget is late, the legislature fe urure day's pay for every day it's been late. it's never been late. it's phenomenal. but trust me, the budget will be on time for all eternity. >> it is interesting sometimes how simple little changes can incentivize folks to do their job. >> huge. >> governor davis, good to see you. thank you for coming on. >> my pleasure. still ahead, it's our race of the day. we'll talk to you about a down ballot race, this one is a democratic face-off in california. we'll look at why the challenger could have a golden opportunity to unseat an incumbent member of congress, stay tuned. le insurane i spent 20 years active duty

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>> w time, it's the who. massachusetts governor charlie baker, true blue republican form. he said he would sign a transgender anti-discrimination bill if it reaches his desk. i'm guessing it will. now to the what, a lawsuit aimed at keeping republican senate hopeful john kaiser off the ballot in colorado. three voters allege kaiser submitted signatures to put him over the threshold. the date is june 28th. why do they care so much. he's the one candidate they fear in that race. now to the where, florida's ninth district. dina mining, married to the district's current congressman and changed her social media accounts to dina grayson. like any character changing his name to match the incumbents in

the movie "distinguished gentleman." asking voters to vote are the name you know. >> good old jeff, a name that you can trust, a name that you know, jeff johnson. >> programming note, "distinguished gentleman," a movie that's a parity that gets less parodied every year. now to an alert for americans traveling to europe, warning of potential terrorist attacks in the region. be careful of crowds is essentially the warning. now to the why, a new poll out today, hillary clinton with a four-point lead over donald trump in the garden state. might be shocked by that. here's why it matters. four points! republican deficit in new jersey? razor thin, but new jersey polling always looks good for republicans in the initial trial heap, and then the elections happen. republican hasn't finished within ten points of a democrat in since 1992. but i'm guessing trump is going to be making noise in jersey

because it's close. still ahead on "mtp daily," our race of the day is another big democratic intra-party showdown in california, but first the cnbc market wrap. >> the dow falls 86 points, for the month, it gained a fraction. the nasdaq climbs 14, up more than 3% for the month. consumers were shopping away in april, spending rose 1%, its biggest gain in over six years. and home prices jumped 5.4% over the same period last year. prices were up the most in the pacific northwest and in the western united states. that's it from cnbc, we're first in business worldwide. then - those places change every few months? i think i'll pass... quicksilver from capital one puts nothing in your way. you simply earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere.

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i'm late for an important function. compare.com. saving humanity from high insurance rates. time for the race of the day. it's not just clinton versus sanders in california with a

little intra-party democratic love-hate. there will be more d versus d races there one week from now. so tonight, we're looking at california's crazy jungle primary if you want to call it that. and the race in the 17th congressional district, it's mike honda, facing a former obama administration official, ro canna. this one is a rematch of a face-off from 2014. two years ago canna was defeated in the primary, about you they both advanced to the general and that november, honda barely beat khanna's challenge by a margin of just over 5,000 votes. but a lot has happened since 2014. honda faced a federal etics probe of using government assets in the re-election campaign. earlier in the month, khanna picked up the endorsement of the "san francisco chronicle" and

continues to tap huge silicon valley names to add to his $1.5 million in cash. they're expected to take the top two spots again in the jungle primary, and california, no matter the party affiliation of the first and second place finishers, they face off in november. we'll likely see these former rivals square off again which it will be all which democrat best appeals to frustrated republicans. still ahead on the lid, it's trump versus trump. how do today's comments about his charity donations match up? the tale of the tape, trump versus trump coming up next. pitch you investment opportunities. i've got a fantastic deal for you- gold! with the right pool of investors, there's a lot of money to be made. but first, investors must ask the right questions and use the smartcheck challenge to make the right decisions.

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still ahead on "mtp daily," donald trump makes good on his multi million dollar donation to modera veterans charities, but does his rhetoric add up? we'll compare his comments today to his actual comments from january. that's next in the lid. stay tuned. if you have allergy congestion muddling through your morning is nothing new. introducing rhinocort® allergy spray from the makers of zyrtec®.

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>> time for the lid. back in january donald trump claimed he raised $6 million for veterans. after months of questions about how much was raised and whether it was actually given to the veterans organizations, today trump held a press conference to announce where the money went, all 5.6 million of it. but listen to the difference between trump today and trump in january when he hosted a fun raiser during the fox news republican debate that he chose to boycott. >> we just cracked $6 million, right? 6 million. >> as of this moment, it's $5.6 million. this is like the academy awards. i wanted to keep it private, because i don't think it's anybody's business if i give money to the vets. donald trump gave $$1 million. i didn't have to. the problem with the press, they convince people not to give

money to different things. i said, i'm not going to do the debate out of respect for myself. because it would just be wrong. but i love iowa, we got to do something. >> when i didn't do that one event, the debate, i gave a speech. i didn't have to do this, with the money for the vets. >> after that january 28th fund-raiser, the details on the money got fuzzy. trump's campaign said 22 organizations would get a donation. a month later, fox business reported that at least three charities hadn't received their money yet. in march the trump campaign responded to inquiries saying about 3 million had been doled out. about half the full haul. in april, they said 26 organizations received $2.9 million to date. just last week, trump refuted lewandowski's claims and the claims that the fund-raiser brought in $6 million. which brings us all the way to

today. republican strategist and former kasich supporter charlie black, susan page and doug thornel. susan, donald trump did what he does today. he created the media circumstanccircus of the day. but what did we learn? >> we learned he has a pretty thin skin? >> is that new today? >> we learned or discovered, i guess discovered is not the right word, about you we saw again that he doesn't like to be reminded about what he said before. and that we learned a third thing, even when he hates the press and is mad at the press, he still talks to the press, he's still out there doing a long news conference, taking questions. and for all the negatives about trump, that's a positive. >> i think the most important thing, i'm wondering how he's going to be able to govern. charlie, i want to play this clip for you. it's a question having to do

with attacks he made to susannah martinez and a warning that was made to him. >> if i have a republican that's not on my side, i'm not gonna -- why should i be particularly nice to that person? if i have a person that's not going to support me, i have no obligation. politically, i may be right or wrong. but that's who i am. if somebody is going to say a little bit negative or a lot negative about me, if they happen to be republican, i may choose to hit them back. not always. >> nixon came to mind, clinton came to mind, bush 43 and jesse ventura, all of them lost their base at some point. when you lose your base, you can't get anything done. this guy's attacking members of his own party. how do you govern if you do that? >> well, it's very difficult. he's doing everything outside the normal rules and so far, so

good. it's hard to criticize him when he's doing well and winning. i do know governor martinez had criticized him. but most people go by the rule, when it's over, it's over. i won, i'll be magnanimous. not donald. he's always looking for trouble, looking for fights and conflicts. he was in new mexico, might as well attack the governor. >> it's funny, but does it take a toll on republican donors? does it take a toll -- >> yes. >> to me, what fred malick was saying, hey, buddy, you're trying to raise half a billion dollars in three months. >> it hurts a lot because she's highly respected as the chairman of the republican governors association. and he's not thinking in those terms. if he does get elected, which he well might, he'll be able to figure out how to bring in people to deal with congress and how to smooth over some of the wounds he's opened. >> he's got toy party to unify. he's got a convention in less than two months and he hasn't even started that project of bringing republicans that don't support him into the fold.

>> he has. no, i mean he's done something. >> but the ones that still don't like him, he hasn't made those him, he hasn't made the ov overtures. paul ryan, he hasn't attempted to bring him into fold. he's going after big chrll crys. he's not reaching out and bringing republicans in to this race. i think he just carries these grudges throughout. >> marco rubio's in now. even though paul ryan hasn't endorsed yet, he's been patient about his dealings with paul. >> mitt romney, he's still going out talking ining about how he' penguin walker. >> you have a problem that romney won't support. i can't vote for this guy, he's got rmitt romney.

>> only romney's kids may be thinking that. >> he hasn't pivoted. he addressed that today. he said i'm not going to change. this is who he is. it has gotten him pretty far. >> in his defense, it's his whole career he's run in this way. people in the new york business community, real estate, have all wished he would act differently, and he hasn't. he's like why should i. let me pivot here, susan page. bill crystal teased the political press corp in washington saying we found our never trump candidate. his name is david french. coincidentally he was a guest this weekend on "am joy." here is a clip so people can put face to the name we're talking about here. >> i know for a fact an awful lot of republicans are throwing

in for donald trump right now because they feel like they have no other option. you hear all the time, if you're not voting for donald trump, you're voting for hillary clinton. what if you're voting for someone you believe in and respect and will do the right things for this country. >> not a household name. >> you're launching a long shot and you have to show a picture so the four of us will recognize him. this is tough. you were interviewing the libertarian ticket -- >> ordinary ticket. >> they're on 50-state ballots. >> david frank is a good writer. >> the threat of johnson, right now they are running as anti-trump. that's pretty clear. it will get them attention. they are pretty comfortable going up against the democrats too and against clinton.

they are socially very liberal. are you worried that sanders voters end up with a libertarian ticket? >> no, not particularly. i think they have some room on social issues and running outside of the system where we're seeing some traction that candidates are being made, where candidates are making progress. i don't think that -- i think if democra democrats having to choose between electing donald trump or by vote needs to. i think they'll go with clinton. >> that's not clear. who do they hurt. >> they figure out who they are most comfortable with and who agrees with them. the young supporters of bernie sanders are available to those guys if they do it right. they are for legalized drugs. they don't like foreign wars. they don't care for the military. if they can get their message out. >> if they can get in the

debates. >> fox put a three way race with it and he was 10%. that's pretty credible if they can get on more polls. >> is the ticket in the right order or just an east coast media bias thing? >> just watching that interview -- >> plus he's a libertarian. >> they're both credible former governors who were good governors. >> i was going to say how well do you know them. >> i know both of them well for over 20 years. i disagree with some of their policies. >> if they get traction, how concerned are you? >> i think the odds are dependidepend ing on how they present their message, they will take a bit from each party. they might get 4% instead of 1%. in the end people will see a

close race between the two choices. >> i think seven times out of ten you're right on that. if they get over five, they start yanking from somebody. >> democratic base is more closely tied in to where clinton is. i think she's going to be okay there. >> thank you. this is terrific. back right after this.

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i will say that the press should be ashamed of themselves. you make me look bad. the press is so dishonest and so unfair. >> you keep calling us the dishonest press. >> generally speaking, that's 100%. >> you're a really beauty. i've been dealing with the press a long time. i think the political press is among the most dishonest people i've ever met. i have to tell you that. you're excluded, karl. >> wait a few minutes. >> like this sleazy guy right here from abc. >> i think you've set a new bar for being contentious sort of calling us losers to your faces. not all of you, just many of you. >> is this what it's going to be like covering you? >> yes.

i find the press dishonest. i find the political press to be unbelievably dishonest. >> the definition of irony here. he loves the media but says he hates it. the candidate who hates the media but tries to pretend like he doesn't. either way, when a candidate attacks the press, it's not news. it's what happens when the press does its job. please, my fellow colleagues, go listen to carly simon. the campaign is not about you and the voters. "with all due respect" starts right now. i'm john heilemann. >> i'm mark halperin. all those who thought they could come back late an miss donald trump's press conference. buckle up for a crazy summer. >> are you ready? this sleazy guy. you're a really beauty. >> criticizing your political -- >> jeff sessions. crazy