in the words of bernie sanders the big enchilada. but we start with donald trump's campaign now facing new and troubling questions about trump university. >> at trump university we teach success. that's what it's all about. success. it will happen to you. >> an unflattering picture of the new defect trump u. three separate lawsuits and testimony one former worker calls a frot lent scene. hillary clinton wasting no time attacking trump over the controversy. the gist -- trump's for-profit university deceived and exploited students to take their money, and he has the gall to call the media sleazy. trump also still trying to put out the fire over that raucous news conference where he slammed

the press. this morning tweeting so i raised/gave $5.6 million for the veterans and the media makes me look bad. they do anything to belittle -- totally biased. >> instead of being thanked or treated nicely by the press, i get the worst publicity. >> polls showing a four-point race, despite it all, still, very, very tight. we start with our chief legal correspondent. this report and insights from these documents especially, ari, with the ex-workers at trump u. are now saying about how it operated. >> exactly, craig. this isn't about reporting and analysis and all of that. these are the words by people

who have worked or been customers there. here is one of the unsealed declarations making waves. jason nicholas was a sales manager hired by them and says, look, unqualified people were teaching methods that were unethical, they had little to no experience flipping properties or doing real estate deals. it was a facade, a total lie. that's something we've heard from people who taught the courses or sold them and customers who are suing donald trump, the idea this would be a big educational institutional experience with donald trump at the helm and they found they were uptold -- upsold. and donald trump not having much involvement.

now, craig, you know that jay-z says i'm not a businessman, i'm a business, man, a brand. and that would be part of donald trump's defense here. he has people who say you could go to trump or trump university. it doesn't mean donald trump is going to be making your mixed drink it at the bar or teaching in individual seminars. let me show you this quote from kissy gordon. i understood i would not be working personally with donald trump. we really learned a lot. i personally never expected trump to hold my hand along way. i'm sure other people did and they had an understanding of how the program works. that is the dispute. politically people are going to draw their own conclusions about the different opinions that we're seeing in this case.

>> not just our chief legal correspondent but also our resident expert on all things hova. the republican leader appearing on cnbc did not mince words with what he sees ailing trump's campaign right now. trump's rather inflammatory remarks about hispanics, for example, is a mistake. i think it needs to be reversed. >> nbc's katy tur. trump has gotten a lot of negative press. once again he went after martinez, going after folks in his own party.

>> reporter: they're not saying anything about promises and when we have asked him about the eida of donald trump or the appearance of donald trump embracing the party and acting more on the presidential side of things in this spectrum, they've said don't worry he will but the reality is hyped the scenes it's donald trump's way or the highway. and his way is to push back forcefully on any potentially negative press or any reporters that might question them, any judge that might have what he sees as a negative case or any competitor that might be calling him out for various discrepancies or words he uses or for his business record. we saw this with how he treated the press yesterday, angry that they asked -- reporters were asking him where the money for veterans groups was going. we're seeing this with the judge in the trump university case who he said is mexican, but that's okay. and then has gone on to say that he's disgraceful, for some reason bringing the judge's

ethnicity into it when this judge was born in indiana. and then also going after his competitors very harshly during the primary. that, of course, is to be expected, even the reporter pushed back to a degree is part of the playbook for a republican and democratic campaigns but this level of it is certainly new. donald trump won't be backing off. the idea, the general thinking behind the scenes is the press is not going to treat him fairly regardless of what he does. so ep might as well push back. and it's an effort, craig, to discredit those who are questioning him in order to inoculate himself from any potential ly negative publicity. >> katy tur, thank you for the insight, there in sacramento, california, following the trump campaign. i want to call your attention to the bottom of your screen there. this is an event in newark, new jersey. hillary clinton expected to take to the podium there at some point here in the next 20 or 30 minutes. we are told that during her remarks she is going to be

aggressively going after the presumptive republican nominee. again, all eyes there on newark, new jersey. we will go there in just a bit. the never trump movement may now have two choices. in addition to the libertarian party's gary johnson there is now david french. "weekly standard's" conservative writer as an alternative. msnbc caught up with french's wife and this is what she said about a possibly candidacy. >> he's been trying to get other people to run for a long time, so it's probably why people are considering him, you know, because he's been very adamantly anti-trump, never trump, never hillary. it's not like we've sat around trying to get to the oval office or any political position ever. >> doesn't sound like a campaign is necessarily going to be launched here in the next 48 hours or so. republican strategist, former deputy campaign manager for carly fiorina, let's just show folks how hard it is to run as an independent candidate in this country. these are the dates by which an

independent candidate has to file to run for president, north carolina, june 9, that's next week as well as illinois, indiana, new mexico, all of them by the end of the month. and then you have more deadlines in july and august. the logistics are very difficult, to say the least, sarah. what's bill kristol up to here? do we think french actually runs? >> well, what i think we've seen from the sky high ratings of hillary and trump is that people do want an alternative to two liberal crooks as they see as the two major party nominees. i think there's room for someone like a david french. i think that he's a conservative who a lot of people would come to admire and like for those of us who have been reading him for a while but, yes, i think there's obviously an enormous uphill battle for someone like that to launch an independent campaign. however, maybe that will show americans how important it is to make that process easier and we do want more choices in our politicians not just the machine, the clintons and trump

have. >> outside of cable news, talking heads and analysts and conservative writers and thinkers and the like, who knows who this guy is. >> normally an independent bid is someone who is personally wealthy with high name i.d. but this cycle has broken all the rules. donald trump and hillary clinton are the two nominees against a lot of odds. so maybe this will break the rule, too, and david french, a little known conservative columnist and writer and iraq war vet can actually make the case that we need a conservative in this race and a lot of people who are unhappy with what amounts to be two liberal crooks, frauds in the race, we do need an alternative to that. >> let's talk about the libertarians for a moment, a lot of talk about johnson and his running mate bill weld. this quinnipiac poll shows in a four-way race johnson polls at only about 5%, just ahead of the green party's candidate joe stein. what kind of an impact do you

think that they can realistically have? >> i don't think the libertarians had a great weekend. their convention was mostly known for the -- i don't know what to call it but the striptease -- that being said i think people will start in the fall look iing for alternatives. normally the libertarian candidate will pick up sort of the protest vote to end. we saw that in a race like virginia in the last time they had their governor's race. i think you could see that again and his numbers could go up. i don't know how much more they'll go up given that he hasn't looked like he's courting some of these disaffected bernie voters, disaffected nontrump voters. he'll need to do that in order to lift those numbers in any significant way. >> sarah, thanks as always. we'd love to get your thoughts on all of this in today's microsoft pulse question. would you vote for a third party candidate in the 2016 presidential race? there's the question. the pulse is live right now. pulse.msnbc.com.

yet despite all the problems for donald trump, there's this new poll from quinnipiac out that shows the 2016 race is still very, very close between the top two candidates. nbc's senior political editor mark murray joins me now for a deeper dive into the numbers here. walk us through this quinnipiac poll, mark. what does it tell us about the current state of the race? >> yeah, craig, you summed it up really well. it's a tight contest, hillary clinton leading donald trump by four percentage points, 45% to 41%. on the one hand this is kind of good news for donald trump because the race is close. closer than the conventional wisdom might have been a month or two months ago. the bad news for donald trump is that at a time in which he's the republican party presumptive nominee, the republicans are starting to consolidate around him. the democratic race is still ongoing, supporters are still onboard with hillary clinton. clinton is in the lead right now and you could make the argument this is the time if trump was going to be able to make a lead, he'd be atop most of these polls. this finding is similar to our

nbc/wall stre"wall street journ that hillary clinton up three points. notably it did show that bernie sanders' supporters are weighing her down by a few percentage points. >> what do you mean weigh iing r down? >> well, so craig, we both tested hillary clinton versus donald trump and bernie sanders versus donald trump. a sizable number of sanders voters who support sanders against trump but those same people weren't for clinton in a trump matchup at all. and there did seem to be resistance from the sanders voters. >> nbc senior political editor, mark murray. thank you so much for that. bernie sanders doubling down on his dispute over the democratic delegate count. he is storming through california right now. hillary clinton scrambling to sway those same california voters with sweeping foreign policy speech tomorrow. but first, just moments from now, she'll be courting new jersey voters on the right side of your screen.

on the left side, that's sanders there in california. we will check in on both of those live campaign events. stay with us. you owned your car for four years, you named it brad. you loved brad. and then you totaled him. you two had been through everything together. two boyfriends, three jobs... you're like nothing can replace brad. then liberty mutual calls, and you break into your happy dance. if you sign up for better car replacement™, we'll pay for a car that's a model year newer with 15,000 fewer miles than your old one. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance.

before it became a medicine, it was an idea. an inspiration. a wild "what-if." so scientists went to work. they examined 87 different protein structures. had 12 years of setbacks and breakthroughs, 4,423 sleepless nights, and countless trips back to the drawing board. at first they were told no, well... maybe, and finally: yes. then it was 36 clinical trials, 8,500 patient volunteers, and the hope of millions.

and so after it became a medicine, someone who couldn't be cured, could be. me. ♪ billions are spent to confuse and, dare i say it, flummox the american public. "save 16% on car insurance." "switch now..." well at compare.com, we say enough's enough. so we constantly scrutinize millions of rates... answering the question once and for all, who has the lowest. just go to compare.com and get up to 50 free quotes. choose the lowest, and hit purchase. so you can get back to whatever it is you civilians do when you're not thinking about car insurance. compare.com great time for a shiny floor wax, no? not if you just put the finishing touches on your latest masterpiece. timing's important. comcast business knows that. that's why you can schedule an installation at a time that works for you. even late at night, or on the weekend, if that's what you need. because you have enough to worry about.

i did not see that coming. don't deal with disruptions. get better internet installed on your schedule. comcast business. built for business. some breaking news right now. ucla, the university of california at los angeles, at least part of that university is on lockdown right now. tweeting the university representatives tweeting they are responding to a possible shooting reported at an engineering building, observing a campus wide lockdown there. our senior editor is monitoring all of this. what do we know? >> an e-mail and text alert blast went out to students and

faculty at ucla. this was the blast that went out. it says shooting at engineering four g. to secure location and deny entry. lock down now. in the age we live in people are familiar with these procedures. you stay in place if you can. we're following twitter. this is happening at engineering building number four, bolter hall. still too early to find out exactly what's happening in there but, again, right now the school is stressing to its student body, quote, go to a secure location and deny entry and stay safe. waiting for some live pictures to come in. >> we don't have a great deal of information right now. we do have some live aerials, the ucla campus, this is in los angeles. our affiliate there reporting that police have responded to a report of a shooting on campus here.

we believe the helicopter pilot is doing some reporting. >> according to police traffic, ucla police, they're all on scene trying to get safe access to the campus. this is an active scene. i'm going to toss it back to you so we can get our bearings. >> any reports of shots being fired or taken out for medical treatment? >> not right now. they're trying to get to a couple of the victims. two people -- again, this is all unconfirmed. according to what we are hearing possibly two people are down and we're trying to get the exact area where they are. we have emergency personnel staging on the northwest portion of the campus, so let us move news chopper 4 into this area. i have to coordinate with the pilot. >> okay, we'll get back to you in just a moment.

we also have a tag board. >> cal perry is still standing by. we should note, we heard the reporter say, all of this is unconfirmed. we just heard from our local reporter there in the helicopter folks are sheltering in place and possibly -- possibly -- two people are down right now. again, this being the scene above the campus in los angeles. a new compete in. i'm at ucla. there was a shooting. this is all off air. what more can you tell us? >> a little bit more from the school. engineering building number two. what happens around the country is as soon as there's a report even of an individual with a

gun, the campus will instigate an automatic lockdown procedure. ucla has something they call the bruin alert that will send to cell phones, e-mail addresses of the student body and any administrators in the area and faculty. the building we are look iing a again, is bolter hall, engineering building number four. you see the aerial on your screen. that red brick building is the engineering building. that is the building under lockdown. the lapd, the los angeles police farce respond iing to early reports of a shooter. it appears in addition to seeing one or two emergency personnel

it does seem there are some students, perhaps faculty or staff members that are walking casually there. again, we don't want to draw any conclusions. we did see one fire truck. i have not seen a slew of emergency personnel just yet, emergency vehicles just yet but, again, this helicopter vantage point, there are a number of police cars now that they zoom in and you can see the cars there on campus. it's unclear, cal, i would imagine at this point, unclear whether it is just this engineering building that is locked down or whether there are several buildings on campus that are locked down. >> right now it's just the engineering building. you can expect that will expand. they want to cordon off the building they believe the shooter is in and trap the shooter in the area. that's why you have the lockdown procedure -- >> cal, i hate to interrupt you, we have two law enforcement sources telling us there are at

least two confirmed victims there on the campus of ucla. we can listen in once again. >> fire department and they're trying to get to any possible victims. again, unconfirmed reports, possibly two people have been hit. >> more information from the university itself, media relations saying that call came in at about 9:55 of a possible shooting in the engineering building which is in the middle of campus. >> this is the engineering building is right off from westwood plaza. it's right there. you have access, an easy way to exit the area, a number of buildings and facilities south of the ucla store for folks familiar with the area.

we don't have much information beyond the reports of a shooting on campus, possible active shooter and unconfirmed reports of multiple people down. a number of law enforcement agencies have not been able to get specifics at this time. we do have crews on the way to the scene, on scene getting set up. we'll bring them in for a live report. >> some of obvious questions, is school still -- >> a live look here above ucla's campus in los angeles. 43,000 students that's undergraduate and graduate students, a massive university there. again, our law enforcement telling msnbc at this point at least two people have died there. officer tony em, the public

information officer, one of the public information officers with the lapd, tony, what more can you tell us at this point? >> all i can tell you at this point is about 10:03 this morning we got calls of shots fired on the ucla dpus. we are assisting the campus police at this point and we have reports of possibly two victims down. it's still fluid investigation so that's all we have at this point. >> 20 minutes ago reports of shots fired. can you tell us more about where shots were fired? >> everything is vague and fluid. we're waiting for our pio to arrive on scene and contact us and notify us of their investigation. >> is the shooter or shooters still on the loose? >> we don't have the information at the time. >> what are you telling folks on campus? are we telling everyone to shelter down or to shelter in place, rather, or is this a shelter in place order just for one or two buildings?

>> i encourage everyone to listen to the campus police officers. >> what about people who live around the campus? >> we're concentrating more on the campus right now. >> tony im, please keep us posted. jim cavanaugh, msnbc law enforcement analyst, jim, once again here we are having a conversation on air about a shooting. >> i sympathize with the common patrol of an active shooter, people down, encounter wounded or kill people, they have to find the guy and a lot of times these shooters are mobile, moving through a place and, of

course, ucla is a massive campus. that's what the task at hand is. if people areheltered and on their phone, they can see the guy with the gun or the shooter, you have to get that information to police as quick as you can. the campus police, the lapd, the 911, whoever you can get it to, get the location of the shooter because the critical part, the hardest part for patrol officers is getting there and finding the guy or guys who are doing this, and so that's the critical information. if you're locked in a room somewhere, barricade and stay. if you could have escaped, that's fine. if you can't barricade and stay, hunker down and don't open the door if somebody says it's the police. you have to double verify that by calling 911 and verifying it by hearing their radios, by making them slip an i.d. under the door. don't just open the door if someone says it's the police. >> jim, i want to make sure our listeners and viewers know this is a fluid situation. at this point we don't know whether there is still an active shooter on campus.

we don't know whether that shooter or shooters -- we don't know whether they've been apprehended. we do know, again, according to two law enforcement sources at least two people have been killed so far. jim, i don't know if you have this vantage point that i have, if you're able to see the helicopter live shots here. can you? >> yeah, i'm watching along with you. >> i see either students or adults strolling through campus, again, sprawling campus, 420 acres. it's massive. we don't exactly know where they're focused on right now, but if you see folks like that sort of strolling through campus does that tell you anything? >> well, it's possible they don't know. they don't know what's going on in the area. they haven't been alerted or notified or they haven't read their messages, or it's possible they have had some instruction and they're calmly going to a safe place.

it's hard to tell. it's hard in these things for everybody to get the word, and i would just say this, craig, you know where we are mentally, like what's going on, what is it, is it an active shooter, that's the same response you have when you arrive as a uniformed officer. you only have bits and pieces you're trying to pull together. your dispatch is telling you things. you're picking up stuff from local witnesses. you're seeing victims like we know here. and you're also trying to piece together what's going on. now the police are going to be ahead of us because the patrol officers there are going to be ahead of us gathering information quicker, but they're still in the same mind-set though they may be ahead of what is it, who is it, where is he, where are they. >> jim, stand by for me, please. don't go anywhere. i want to bring in a student there on the campus of ucla. bahat, i understand you were actually in the engineering building. is that right? >> yes, sir. i was in boelter hall and the

shooter was in engineering four and those two buildings are connected. >> what did you hear? what did you see? >> so i was on the seventh floor heading to the fifth floor, and the fifth floor is basically the ground floor. as i got to the fifth floor, i saw police -- a policeman. he looked like a s.w.a.t. kind of guy. he had a bigger gun and he was just yelling at everyone to run, run, run, run. he was just yelling at everyone to run as far away as we can from the building, and so it was pretty chaotic. everyone was running away as fast as they could and then i checked my phone and i see that ucla bruin alert which is a system that alerts students of something happening on campus, sends out an e-mail to everyone say iing shooter at engineering four. that's what i did. >> and you're safe and secure right now.

>> yes. i'm in the building and i'm the only one here but all of the doors are locked so no one can really come in from the outside. >> what are you -- go ahead. >> it's fine. and then outside i can hear and see helicopters. there's no one outside and the few people that are outside i can see them running towards somewhere else. >> before you saw the police officer, did you get a sense there was perhaps something wrong? >> i was in the staircase and could hear yelling. i wasn't sure what it was but it didn't sound like an average person just yelling. it sounded like there was something going on. >> did you hear the gunshots or did you hear anything that perhaps could have been gunshots?

>> i didn't hear any gunshots. the student newspaper, "the daily bruin" released tweets that the shooter was a white male and two people are down. >> you mentioned the tweets from the student newspaper, a white male and that two students were down. have you gotten any indication via tweet or otherwise that the shooter is still on campus or that he or she acted alone? >> there's no more information than that. but i think the ucla administration is asking professors to e-mail students and cancel classes. >> and if i understand it correctly, this is your tenth week there at ucla, is that right? >> yes. so this is the tenth week and we're going into finals week. i actually had a final today.

>> when you saw the s.w.a.t. officer, he said just run, that was it. he was telling everyone to run. >> he had his gun in the direction of engineering four and was yelling at everyone to run. >> bahjat alirani, let us know more information if you can as you get it but above all stay safe, please, sir. >> thank you. >> msnbc is following all of this very closely from our los angeles bureau and, jacob, i understand you have some new information on the tactical response here on campus. what can you tell us? >> that's right, craig. we're hearing from law enforcement sources that obviously the city of los angeles in which ucla is it

located on a citywide tactical alert which means the police department is calling in off-duty officers in addition to the force that's currently on duty as a response to this situation. i want to reiterate and reset what else we're hearing from law enforcement sources there are two victims down according to law enforcement sources on the ucla campus and the ucla newsroom, which is the ucla, essenti essentially, outlet to communicate with the press and members of the student body is saying police are investigating a possible shooter in engineering four. police are on scene. the campus is on lockdown and people are being asked to shelter in place. i want to talk quickly, craig, about where this building is located on the center of campus at ucla in westwood. this is part of the engineering school at ucla which is actually with the rest of the university still in session the uc system is on a quarter system and this school, the engineering school,

where this shooting report edly took place is on the 11th, june 11th of this year. students are still on campus at ucla in westwood which is right smack dab in the middle of the city of los angeles. it's boredered on the west side by santa monica, on the east side by beverly hills, on the north side by the bel air neighborhood of los angeles on south side, by west los angeles, a neighborhood known as west los angeles. and it's easily accessible, i should say, on the north side by sunset boulevard and obviously the famous sunset boulevard and wilshire boulevard and the freeway of this is an area of la los angeles that's very accessible, tens of thousands of students still in session at ucla, craig, as we hear from law enforcement sources los angeles police department is going on a citywide tactical alert. >> a sprawling campus, roughly 420 acres, we're told. if we could bring back up the right side of the screen there, i do want to let our viewers and

listeners know what we're look ing at there. can we get the picture back or did we lose that picture? again, this is the view from the helicopter of our local affiliate. we just saw a number of officers who appeared to be some of the tactical members of law enforcement there, we saw them there in their vests. i could not tell from this vantage point whether their weapons were drawn but we see a number of emergency vehicles. in fact, it appears as if we have start ed to see more of those emergency vehicles show up in the past 10 or 15 minutes or so. i spent some time, 10 or 15 minutes ago, with the public information officer from the lapd who said that just after 1:00 local, 10:00 local, a call of shots being fired. at this point we do not know whether there is an active shooter who is still on campus. we do know according to our law enforcement sources at least two people have been killed.

two people are dead. i think i still have jacob with me. jacob, i know you've been communicating with some of these law enforcement sources. have we gotten any indication whether there is an active shooter on campus? and my second question, the two victims, do we know any more about them? are they students, faculty members, staffers or is it just too early? >> we don't. it's just too early, craig, to know. what we're hearing is that these two victims are down. i want to make sure to reiterate that's what we're hearing now from our law enforcement sources. again, what everybody should remember about ucla, if there is an active shooter on campus is, number one, the campus, the university is telling everybody to shelter in place, to go on lockdown. this is an absolutely sprawling campus that touches four different neighborhoods. the amount would rival the size

of a major american football arena, at least the total student body population. so when you're looking at what we're looking at now, black and white lapd cruisers, i believe, have been called in to assist the ucla police department. ucla has its own autonomous police department, but in a situation like this, obviously immediately they would call for backup by the los angeles police department which has approximately 10,000 officers and would come here in a backup capacity. >> let's listen to our affiliate here in the area. let's listen to some of the reporting. >> a group of apartments that a lot of people live in. >> so where were you when you got this alert? were you far from that engineering building and how were other students reacting? >> i'm blocks away. at first we weren't really sure it was real but everyone on campus is on lockdown right now. from what i can tell everyone in the classroom has been doing

lockdown procedure. >> now you said you got the alert just before 10:00. so we're working on about 40 minutes since you got that alert. do you feel as though -- was the police response quick or slow moving how the vehicles began to show up there? >> well, it was very quick turnaround time and the confirmation that there was a shooting usually in these situations there's police activity and then they'll say rumors of shots fired or alleged situation but this one was very definitive within a couple minutes the situation. >> we are getting reports ucla officials are telling police they have confirmed two shooting victims there at the campus. there's no immediate word on their conditions there. can you look out the window or see what is going on in the vicinity of your radius there? >> right.

well, i hear several helicopters, or at least one and then other than that the street is pretty empty although a few minutes ago everyone was trying to come back, rushing back into their apartments. >> we are listening to our affiliate there in the area as we watch the law enforcement personnel gather at the bottom of the screen. again, ucla confirming a shooting at campus, at least a good part of the 420 acre campus is on lockdown right now. law enforcement sources telling us two victims so far. we want to clear up any confusion. we have not been told that they are dead but we have been told that two people, at least two people have been shot there on campus. that's coming from our law enforcement sources so far. let's listen in again if we can to our local affiliate here as they continue to talk to students. >> i think people were kind of uncertain about how to it grapple with the situation but it was very clear the alert what to do which was to hide and lock

yourself away. but it seems it was pretty -- like there wasn't much time -- >> landen, i'm sorry to interrupt you. thank you for joining us. we have to move on because we have on the phone joining us right now captain with lapd and we're hoping to get new information about what's going on. captain, if you can hear me, we've been getting these reports of two possible victims. what can you tell us about victims or perhaps the active shooter? >> yeah, at this point i'm not on scene yet. the reports we have is there was a shooting on the campus. there are possible victims. that has not been confirmed to me yet. so we are en route right now with a multitude of resources. we are responding with an abundance of caution right now that until we determine exactly what has transpired here and make sure that the school campus is safe and that the community is safe. >> so you're hearing possible victims, no actual number that you can confirm?

>> yeah, i am not able to confirm that at the time. there have been reports of victims, but i do not have that confirmed. so until i get on scene which will be in the next few minutes here. so i'm responding with a number of resources. i want to remind commuters if you see red lights and sirens, please pull to the right so our resources can get to ucla very quickly. >> as far as the urgency of what's taking place, captain, is there an active shooter or any danger present at the time now to let our viewers know or -- >> yeah. i don't have that right now because i'm not at the command post. as soon as i have that, we'll be glad to provide that. my advice would be if you're on campus to shelter in place until law enforcement has advised you otherwise. so stay away from the campus if you're not there. and if you're on campus, find a secure place, lock yourself in, and stand by until you hear from authorities.

i'm afraid i'm going to have to go. we'll give you more as soon as i'm able to. >> captain, can i ask you what -- captain, if you're still there, i wanted to ask you one more question -- i guess we lost captain neiman. how that response could impact the community and the resources -- >> we've been listening to our local affiliate there talking to the police captain who is on his way to the scene of telling folks on campus that they should stay sheltered in place until notified by law enforcement. we are getting word into the newsroom here a nurse who answered the main number at ronald reagan medical center confirm that their hospital has also been placed on lockdown. jacob soboroff following this from los angeles. what do we know about that part of the story right now?

>> reporter: it is on the campus of ucla. so per the university's call for the campus to be placed on lockdown, that building would be affected. we're learning a little bit more about the citywide tactical alert that the los angeles police department has gone into, which is not something that happens regularly here in los angeles. they will be taking under a citywide tactical alert. they will not be taking low priority calls and they will keep officers on duty past their shifts in order to deal with the situation. what you're looking at on the left-hand side of your screen is one of the main entryways into campus at ucla and those red fire trucks are city of los angeles fire trucks and the city of laos angeles has been mobilized as the first responders on scene. i want to repeat what i told you last time we spoke which is ucla has their own police department but in a situation like this obviously they're not equipped to handle obviously the volume of calls that would be coming in and that's why we see those recognizable black and white cruisers that belong to the los

angeles police department. >> jim cavanaugh still with us as well, msnbc law enforcement analyst. the citywide tactical alert that the lapd has declared, what precisely does that mean? >> well, what it means they're going to bring in extra officers. officers that might have been going to come on duty later this afternoon at 4:00 or 5:00 come in early because it's a smart move. what lapd is saying we just don't know what this is yet. we want to be a little more prepared. that's smart money. but this could be -- this could be a murder/suicide. i mean, you could have the shooter dead. and lapd knows that. they deal with violence all the time. it's a smart command move to get ready if you don't need those officers, you know, you can scale back. but when things like this happen, is there multiple shooters, is there another location going to break out, so i agree with the commanders there. chief beck, smart move.

ramp it up while you have some time, before you know what's going on, you can always scale back later. we just don't know, craig, what it is. we don't know if there's a shooter loose, if it's a murder/suicide, we don't know if it's a robbery gone bad. it could be a lot of things right now and patrol on the scene there where they drag out their long rifles and their tactical vests they move quickly trying to find the shooter and maybe the shooter's laying there dead. they don't know so they have to try to ascertain that as quick as they can. >> we've also just been told the fbi and the atf are responding at the request of the lapd. they tell us that they don't have any more information at this point other than what we've gotten so far right now. we continue to watch just a slew of emergency vehicles -- fire trucks and ambulances as well. a number, more than a dozen police cars so far. just a few moments ago you probably saw that scene of students who were milling about

a few dozen students who were milling about. we should note we don't control the helicopter vantage point here. this is from our affiliate there in los angeles. we are told where the students are is a good distance away from where all of this activity is happening right now. our justice correspondent, pete williams, is standing by for us in washington, d.c. pete, what more can you tell us? >> reporter: nothing more. just to repeat that we obviously here in washington are checking with federal officials and they tell us that we've talked to folks from the fbi and the atf, they both have agents responding at the request of the lapd but this is entirely in the hands of los angeles police. this is their command. they are the ones calling the command orders out and the federal officials have no independence confirmation.

everyone we've talked to says the same thing which is they've heard there are two victims in the engineering building but they don't have any more comprehensive information on whether there's still an active person with a gun wandering around the campus, whether there are -- whether this thing is over or what. so we're waiting along with the rest of the law enforcement organizations to find out what, in fact, is going on here. >> the lapd tweeting a short time ago that folks should avoid the area. again, lapd telling folks they should avoid the area. on the left side of your screen, you can see if you look closely, it looks as if someone is walking -- we can see a sw.w.a.. team of some sort. law enforcement appears to be entering a building. we saw a woman with her hands behind her head leaving that building. we've just seen -- jim, you're watching this with me as well, right?

what did that scene just tell you? what does that look like to you? >> it looked like he had a tactical team, s.w.a.t. team moving, another unit of officers backing him up, a person who was exiting with their hands on top of their head, which likely they were ordered by officers, you know, put your hand on top of your head, so they're probably trying to secure an area, you know, an area that they think maybe there's activity in, trying to get a perimeter setup. if you have an idea someone, the assail aant, the shooter, is in certain building or a couple of buildings, you try to lock that down, craig. that's what they're trying to do. you know, it's locate the shooter, isolate the shooter, evacuate the people. so that's what they're trying to do. those are the tasks that they go through, that the on scene commanders do and so it's moving forward. i think that they're going to -- they know more now than we know at the moment whether or not they think there's somebody loose in there or they just want to make double sure to secure everything and these people are

being let out or taken out. you know, that person may be in custody. it looked like an officer behind them but it could be someone walking to safety as well. >> the scene we saw play out, is that going to happen at every building on campus? >> no, i wouldn't think so. normally not. what's going to happen is, remember, locate, isolate. so what they're trying to do is find the shooter, if the shooter -- if there's a gun laying at the two bodies or two wounded people, they might think the shooter is there are there. if they think the shooter is loose, then they have to start a wider perimeter where they have intelligence or information where the person was last seen and they have to squeeze that down, craig. they have to hold it and squeeze it down. and especially critical if it's occupied because now they have to evacuate. and they're trying to do these things but they have to find them, locate them.

they want to isolate them, evacuate the people. they're not going to try to set up a perimeter over the whole campus, you know, a real tight perimeter because that can't be done be done effectively. they have to squeeze it down smaller to locate, isolate and evacuate. >> brian williams is in place and will pick up our coverage from here. brian. >> craig, thank you. for people tuning in right now, having perhaps heard on their device this is under way. here we are again, the all too familiar term, "active shooter," the all too familiar term, "shelter in place," but that's what's going on right now in the westwood section of los angeles, the university of california at los angeles, the ucla campus. all reports are early. that means kind of the fog of war rules take effect. nothing is confirmed unless and

until it's confirmed. two people have been hit by gunfire. we don't know if we're dealing with two fatalities or not. we assume we're dealing with one gunman because that is among the few strands of information we have been given by police. as craig was just talking about while we were on the air a few minutes ago, we saw two different things happen at the same time, one movement of police officers at a high rate of speed into one section of the bui building, all of this happening in or around the school of engineering, and going in the other direction was someone being escorted by police with their hands on their head. this is that scene, as jim cavanaugh pointed out today, and has sadly been forced to point out every time our coverage finds itself in this position, everyone who is cleared from inside one of these situations

is asked to do that, mark themselves as having their hands up to separate them, really treat everyone as a potential suspect until you get the lay of the land. they do what ae's called a clea and hold inside an area and mark it as safe not unlike a military location as they draw in on the location of the suspected gunman. as craig also mentioned, these pictures are coming in from knbc, our nbc station in los angeles where this is a very big story, a huge lapd turnout. the finals are under way, the final day supposed to be june 10th. with that in mind, there is a sizable population right now on campus. perhaps not as many people as

the height of the academic calendar but you see the lay of the land now. we've been looking at these pictures for some time, all of this happening, as we said, in and around the school of engineering. the nearby hospital, ronald reagan center is locked down only duto its proximity to campus. jacob can bach -- can walk us through folks not familiar with the los angeles area, at risk of preeting ourselves, give us the location we need to know. >> reporter: yes. it's bordered by beverly hills on its eastside, santa monica, a neighborhood called west los angeles to the south and north, the neighborhood of bel air, which many folks know.

ucla obviously, as you said, is still in session and the commencement for the overall school is this 9th and 10th and 11th commencement for the engineering department in which reportedly this shooting took place. just in toous from o-- just in o us from our sources, the city is on an inside tactical alert, unusual keeping officers on duty past their shift time and not taking low priority calls and we are told the depot operation center has been activated to the highest level, level one, because you can see what looks like tactical response by s.w.a.t. officers on campus, this is something the los angeles police department which is not the primary law enforcement agency for campus of ucla, they have their own campus police department, the los angeles police department is taking this very very seriously

an the campus is on complete lock-down according to ucla. >>silveroff covering this. and so is cal perry. >> scrolling social media, we're getting our first look inside the campus and engineering buildings, students barricading themselves inside the classroom. police will tell you, it doesn't matter how you do it, if you have to use crude tools or your belt, go ahead and do that. we are seeing pictures of students locking theirselves in these classroom, standard operating procedure, until they know, you're seeing on the right hand side of the screen, until they know where that gunman is and confirmed the gunman is down, abundance of caution kicks in. take care of yourself, if you can't leave, stay locked in. that is what lapd is telling people to do. the los angeles police

department updated their twitter feed and calling this an active shooter and asking everybody avoid the area and stay where they are. >> i'm guessing they have a reverse 911 system for students? >> absolutely. the bruin alert system that sends out a text message to people who have cell phones and e-mail if it's list in this campus alert system. it goes to faculty and administrative staff as well. that was immediately put into place as soon as there was talk of a shooting. the only thing i want to mention, "the daily bruin," the daily publication, student publication at ucla is putting out subscriptions of the shooter -- descriptions of the shooter but doing so based on police scanning. police scanning is often incorrect in the early hours, but we stress wait for information to come out. if you're on campus, stay where you are. we don't know if it's one shooter or two shooter and until

we do it's important to stress to our viewers, as you did off the top, sometimes the information is just not correct. >> that's a great point as a veteran of listening to police and fire scanners, especially if it's a foreign area to you, there can be local vagueries and temp codes for example, there are ways radio transmissions can sound like they are talking about the case you are intere interested in, even if you're on a tactical frequency, separated out from the bunch. it does not mean that what's on that scanner is the truth, necessa necessarily, and fog of war applies to both those on the ground and those of us covering their movements and the progress of this case. we are always fortunate to have the advice and couple of a

seasoned veteran in thisization though we wish we talked to him much less in this society. joining us, jim cavanaugh, 30 year veteran of alcohol, tobacco and firearms, special agent in charge. you've been watching this and we've been talking to you, anything stand out to you? >> the professional response of the lapd, they're quick and get there fast with a lot of people. that's how you win in a violent conflict, you get there fast with a lot of people and lock it down, shut it down, put an end to it. i would say quickly they will come to a conclusion, they probably already have the on scene command, are they looking for somebody or is this thing over? or is someone isolated? they'll slow down, brian, if they have someone isolated in a building in a room and they'll slow that thing down and look like it's got the brakes on it and then s.w.a.t. can come in and, you know, they can deal with the barricaded suspect, if

there's no hostages or anything. they move at the tempo of whether or not there is -- we use the term all the time "active shooting" in the police, often called "active killing" now. once you can put a stop on that by shooting the person, by isolating them, by isolating them alone, once you can put a stop on that, the brakes start to come on a little more deliberate movement. right now, they're still in the early phases, the patrol officers geared up with long guns and often s.w.a.t. light and we have patrol officers that have long rifles and helmets and vests and they can respond quickly. they're not the full s.w.a.t. team. they don't have gas and they don't have negotiates and robots and all that but they can come

in and maybe isolate something and get it down quick. that's what you saw here, that fast response from patrol, both ucla p.d. and lapd. the ucla chief, the lapd captain who's in that area, the s.w.a.t. commander for l.a., they're all there. they work so good with everybody there, with laso and atf and fbi, who all have tactical teams there, they know they can bring laso s.w.a.t., special response team, which is s.w.a.t., fbi s.w.a.t., they know they can bring them in. they work and train with them all the time. these guys are all on first-name basis. this is the tactical officer community of los angeles. los angeles is, you know, been very big on the founders of that operation. we train with them. i've been out there with them training with lapd s.w.a.t. years ago