the champ announced tonight surrounded by his family in arizona. it the end of the journey for muhammad ali, death came at the age of 74 for a man who as we've been saying, could not go anywhere in the world in his adult lifetime without people knowing his name. he called himself the greatest. and his work, his deeds eventually made that title come true. he called himself the king of the world. and eventually his work in the ring and his largeness as a human made that title come true. born cassius clay, known to the world as muhammad ali. what an american journey for the man who was easily the most famous man in the world for decades at a time. and a singular sport star we

haven't really seen the likes of and may not for a long time to come. as we said, death came earlier this evening. a lot of journalists are reacting to this. here is robert lip site in the "new york times" muhammad ali the three-time world heavyweight boxing champion who helped define his turbulent times as the most charismatic and controversial sports figure of the 20th century died on friday. he was 74 years old. as i was saying earlier this evening, our friend matt lauer had the great luck and good fortune in life to have been a friend of muhammad ali and remained a friend later in life. matt was close, as well to members of the ali extended family. and tonight, for us, matt lauer has a look back.

>> i am the king of the world. >> hold it, hold it, hold it. >> i'm a mad man >> he called himself the greatest. he was botha doored and at times scorned. >> he had a lot of threats against him. >> but with superior skill and a unique style of boxing. >> float like a butterfly and sting like a bee. >> -- muhammad ali became a cultural icon. >> i'm so great. i'm so great. >> angelo dunnedee, ali's trainer and corner mann for 21 years passed weighed in 20 is 12 but was with ali during some of his most memorable fights. >> all you had to do was put a mike in his pu. he was sensational. >> he was born cassius clay on january 17th, 1942. in louisville, kentucky. when he was 12 years old, his buy cycle was stolen. he was so angry, that he vowed

to whoop whomever stole it. that determination propelled clay to win two national golden glove titles and qualify for the u.s. team at the 1960 olympics in rome. >> i met cassius in 1958. in '58 he told me he was going to within the olympics. he won the olympics in '60. >> clay wore his gold medal for two days straight though he would later throw it into the ohio river disillusioned by his second class treatment when he returned home. with the olympics behind him, he began his professional boxing career. his first big test was against heavyweight champion sonny liston. it was also the first time many would hear clay's effortless ability to compose a rhyme. >> if you like to lose your money then be a fool and bet on sonny. >> liston was heavily favored but in the end, clay proved prophetic. >> that might be all. >> at 22 years old, clay become the youngest heavyweight

champion. >> i shook up the world. >> he quickly shook up the world again by announcing had he joined the nation of islam and changed his name. >> cassius clay was my slave name. i'm no longer a slave. >> ali's declaration became a lightning rod with many refusing to acknowledge his new name. but howard cosell, a rising sportscaster fiercely defended ali's decision saying they wanted another joe louis, a white man's black man. instead, they got ali. a man who would not conform regardless of the consequences. at the height of the vietnam war, ali refused to be. declaring himself a consciencious on thor and famously saying i ain't got not quarrel with them viet cong. >> this is this choice and you know every man has a choice of his own religion and beliefs. >> convicted of draft evasion, he was stripped of his heavyweight title and banned from boxing. > muhammad teaches us.

>> for the next three years, he traveled around the country preaching the principles of islam. and speaking out on race relations. >> we black people in america are fighting the same common enemy. >> in 1970, his conviction was overturned. and ali now 30 years old, was allowed back into the ring. >> with a couple of wins under his belt, his next opponent, current heavyweight champion joe frazier. >> an explosive left to the jaw and muhammad ali goes down. >> ali suffers his first professional defeat. determined to reclaim the title, he trains harder than ever. and epic fights soon follow. in zaire, the rumble in the jungle. >> james foreman crumbling. >> ali wins the title back. >> ladies and gentlemen. >> then the thriller in manila. the third and final fight with frazier into this is muhammad

ali at his very best. >> ali would eventually become boxing's first three-time heavyweight champion and in 1981, with 56 wins and only five losses, he retires at the age of 39. his agility and speech pattern now noticeably different. >> didn't realize how scientific and quick i was. >> just three years after retiring, ali was diagnosed with parkinson's. and for the rest of his life, that disease would affect his movements and eventually silence his voice. >> i believe all of you remember muhammad's preprarken son's days when he moved millions with his vibrant voice and his poetic expression. ♪ >> the greatest. >> his surprise appearance at the 1996 olympics would move the world once again. >> oh, my! >> 3.5 billion people watched as the champ delivered another great moment.

>> this was a moment where the whole world was saying thank you. >> ali was married four times. including current wife lonnie. his partner for more than 25 years. he also had nine children. seven daughters and two sons. all of them, he called a gift from god. ali wrote that he would like to be remembered as a man who tried to be a good father, who stood up for his beliefs. muhammad ali, the greatest. >> those of you who generationally may be new to the life and times and legacy of muhammad ali are going to hear that term a lot over these next few days, the greatest. believe those of us who were there then who watched it all and hopefully this is part tutorial.

you'll learn over the next few days why that title is appropriate and right and real. and perfect. knowing about muhammad ali being a fan of muhammad ali, being kind of enthralled by him is what people in the world had in common for generations in this country. i -- our thoughts also turn to the current president of the united states. how he would sum up the life of muhammad ali. what ali meant to him. say nothing of the other former living presidents of the united states. flown again came up during that era, he was the subject of great fascination. dave zyron remains with us. and dave, kind of nicely left out of that affectionate look back by matt lauer again one of the subjects that will come up

is very few people in life know how and when to leave the stage perfectly. and one of the nicks on the reputation of muhammad ali was his departure from the sport. it wasn't all at once. it was gradual. there were some embarrassments. and then after that came the physical degradation. >> and this is part of the ali legend about what he sacrificed. and who he was. because there really are two mupd alis. in terms of boxing. there's the ali before 1967 when he was suspended for standing up to the draft and saying he would not go to war. he had no quarrel with the street kong as he said. there was the ali who came back three years late per.what happened in that intermediate period? it's worth saying. the ali before 1967, his plan was as he said, to retire at 30 years old, rich, pretty, the

best of all time. and yet, that wasn't the plan. and so before 1967 though, his amazing ability was he was never hit. it was thought in boxing it's hard to believe before until before 1967, it was thought that he didn't have a good chin. it was thought that he couldn't take a punch because he never had to take a punch because he was so fast. the punch numbers are insane. a full match where he would be hit eight times in ten rounds. it was unbelievable. then when he came back, you know, he was in financial duress. he needed to come back and box. he was also certainly as bob lip site puts it so well addicted to the warm. in other words, he misses the glow of the crowd, atfection, the love. but at the same time, it also was because he had to come back and fight after that three-year layoff. when he came back, he found to his own surprise that he had a jaw made of granite, maybe the best jaw in the history of boxing.

and maybe he didn't have his speed but he could do the rope-a-dope. cotake punches. you could tire yourself out punching him and he would still stay on his feet. of course, he paid just a horrific price for that over the next decades of his life. but even though he did lose that power of speech, i mean my goodness, you talk to people who were close to him as i have, and you would not meet a more serene, more happy person, and that's the part about it which i think for all of us is that he was always at peace inside his own body. he had a tweet sent out about a year ago, i think it was october 2014 where he said i wish people of the world loved each other as much as they loved me. and that's kind of the lesson i'm thinking about in my own head. like there's never been anybody this country has ever produced that i can think of who was as comfortable in their own skin as muhammad ali. >> absolutely. mike l, you forget the dual cruelty of a man who was so

physically beautiful and verbally beautiful. his 6'3" frame and if memory serves 78-inch reach, stooped in the end by disease. his fluid tongue. he was the father of trash talk. the father of sports poetry. >> guarantees. >> you got it. both of them were faded by time and illness. >> and it's funny, i was listening to dave talk about it. for all the punishment he inflicted on opponents, his defining moment really became the thriller in manila and the punishment he took that night. i was telling you earlier, i win the back and read mark cram's amazing piece about that fight in sports il freighted where he goes and he sits with frazier in a darkened room after the fight that night. and frazier said to cram, i hit him with punches that would have

knocked down the walls of a city. and then he said, lordy, lordy, lordy, what a champion. and ali after that fight said that was as close to dying as i've ever, ever been. >> we hope that among our viewers, again, this news having come in tonight of the death of the champion muhammad ali at the age of 74, we hope our viewers include good old fashioned boxing fans and those joining us will appreciate our next guest. larry merchant, a hall of fame boxing commentator. the mention of his name just thrilled mike lupica. i can tell you that because i'm sitting next to him. larry is with us and really if you were a boxing fan, if you watched it especially hbo's coverage, it was like had you a dedicated cornerman explaining to you what was going on. he sat ringside to cover ali/frazier 1, madison square

garden, march 3rd, 1971. larry, it's kind of you to join us. what your thoughts at this hour. >> thank you very much, brian. well, as my wife put it, we learned about this while we were out having dinner and she said even though we knew it was coming, it was a punch in the gut. ali was a genius. a great athlete. and a man of his times who became an international symbol of those times. and i doubt that there's been somebody in pop culture anywhere near his -- near him who had that kind of worldwide impact.

>> as you've been talking, larry, we're watching this endless parade and we could watch them all night and actually we may end up watching them all night of still photos mostly of muhammad ali, one of them we just went by is ali meeting jimmy carter at the white house. jimmy carter famously had him over for dinner at the white house. in the background is the painting of abraham lincoln. it's all just some killer imagery. and as i said earlier, he's kind of a figure former presidents have in common. everyone watched him. no one had ever heard or seen anyone like him before. >> and i once interviewed nelson mandela who himself had been an amateur boxer. and we talked about ali. and mandela was in prison during

most of ali's career. and yet, he told me how he had been known by every human being in africa and how, what, an inspiration he was. and it's hard to measure the -- the impact he had on the world. i mean, this was at a time when colonization was ending in africa and along came this brilliant, handsome athlete from america speaking up during that whirlwind time of social change when the establishments of governments all over the world were being challenged. he had changed his religion.

he had been there controversial lightning rod socially. and this extraordinary showman at the same time. so i think it's fair to say there's never been anything -- anyone like him before or since. >> about the man who's been kind enough to join us by telephone to our viewers who may not know him had, larry merchant covered boxing close enough to be covered in his lifetime with the perspiration of muhammad ali in the ring. because larry was ringside and by extension, he brought us all there will, too. larry, a real pleasure. sorry this brings us together at least in a broadcasting sense. thank you very much and we're sorry about your friend. >> thank you, brian. >> let's go now to phoenix, arizona. muhammad ali had many homes in his lifetime.

for a while, he was in the philadelphia suburb of cherry hill, new jersey, for a while he was in suburban michigan. and for a long time late in life, he called the state of arizona home, specifically in and around the suburbs of phoenix, arizona. correspondent ron mott is there where there will no doubt be a lot of remembrances there. he was a favored citizen of that place, ron. >> reporter: a fixture in this community in the valley of the sun. you know, brian, everyone wants to take some ownership of muhammad ali. he was that kind of an attractive character. he has raised a lot of money here for parkinson's with his foundation that he started with some friends here in the phoenix area. they hold this celebrity fight night every spring here that has become quite the event in phoenix bringing "a" list celebrities, actors you name it from around the world to come here to pay their respects to

him. he was always the honored guest. and this started back in 1994. they have raised, according to the charity, more than $118 million not just for parkinson's but for some other charities, as well over the years. so folks who have gone to bed here tonight in the valley are going to wake up with some pain in their heart, as well as are people all around the world. if i could just take a moment for personal reflection and you guys have been talking about it on the air here. as a young black kid growing up in the midwest in the '70s and '80s, what truck me about muhammad ali is i always felt like he was not only in the ring to fight for himself, not getting rich and famous for himself, but actually fighting for me and other people who look like me growing you. . that's why i was crushed when he stepped into the ring against leon spinks in 1978 and actually lost because i didn't think such a thing was even possible. i was too young. i was 10 years old at the time to understand that he was at the end of his boxing career and

that it was very possible for him to lose a fight to a younger guy who had very little boxing experience. and i remember crying most of that next night and having to talk to my mom about how crushed i was that i felt like the world had gone off the tracks because this icon this man that i so looked up to had lost in the ring and, of course, he went on to do many, many moral things in those years since that fight. he actually won that title back a few months after 1978 as you guys were just talking about, the end of his boxing career was not nearly as glorious as the prime. that's the case obviously with a lot of athletes but what he did after he left the ring and you guys have talked about the atlanta olympics, it still brings a tear to my eye watching that moment with him at the top of that lighting that cauldron. >> i'm glad you said what you did. i always say on april 12th, 1945, children of age 12 in this country would have every reason to believe we'd had a permanent president, just one guy who is

going to have the job that was fdr and the world changed on that day just as a child of 10 on the day of that loss, the night of that loss and subsequent nights would be so sad to see this man really carved out of stone who meant that to all of our childhoods and all of our lives in obviously different ways. this man actually lost. ron mott in phoenix, arizona. now to correspondent morgan radford who is in lou louisville which is, of course, the real hometown of a young man who left there as cassius clay is remembered as a legend and louisville, morgan is where the funeral will be held. correct? >> that's right, brian. in fact, before evers the greatest of all time, he was the louisville lip. it started right here in his hometown here in kentucky. you can see behind me the muhammad ali center. that opened ten years ago dedicated to preserving his

legacy. the mayor has ordered all flags across the city to be lowered to half-staff. and tonight, the people here in louisville are reminding the world that this is a legend borne and bred of kentucky soil. it all started here when cassius play was born in 1942 and when was just 12 years old, his bike was stolen and a police officer came by and saw him agitated and asked him what was wrong and muhammad ali fewer yis said i'm going to whoop him. the officer said if you're going to whoop him, you need to learn how to box first. that's exactly what he did. we're talking the son of a man who painted billboards here in louisville. his mother was a domestic. he won his first heavyweight title at 22. shortly after that, that's when the he converted to the nation of his lam. even when he was here tonight talking to people, one woman said she grew up born, bred here in louisville and she had never heard of such a thing. she said honestly, i'd never heard of a black muslim.

make conscious shennious objection kongtiousable. >> another man said in his opinion, he said my opinion of him changed as america's opinion of the war changes. he said i'll be honest, he came on the scene. he was young, he was tall. he was hand smrks he was black. but he was arrogant and he was brash. he said but as the war changed and americans sentiments towards the war changed, it shifted. suddenly he became colorful and confident and all these things that he was once criticized for, he became lauded for and he represented a nuance within black american culture. tonight the people here in louisville are saying even though they share this legend with the world, he was their hometown hero here first. >> morgan radford reporting from louisville tonight. thank you very much for that. morgan just mentioned this life of muhammad ali intertwined with wartime. a particularly unpopular

conflict in vietnam. fast forward to another modern day wartime in this country. 2005. a different president in the white house, george w. bush. presidents get to award the medal of freedom to notable americans. here now a snippet of that day whether he president bush placed the medal around the neck of muhammad ali. >> only a few athletes are ever known as the greatest in their sport. or in their time. but when you say the greatest of all time is in the room, everyone knows who you mean. that's quite a claim to make. but as muhammad ali once said, it's not bragging if you can back it up. and this man backed it up. from the day he wouldn't gold medal at the 1960 olympic games, we all knew there was something

special about this young fighter from louisville, kentucky. in his record of 56-5 including 37 knockouts and 19 successful title defenses hardly begins to tell the story. far into the future, fans and students of boxing will study it the films and some will even try to copy his style. but certain things defy imitation. the ali shuffle. the lightning jabs, the total command of the ring and bob all the sheer guts and determination he brought to every fight. this is a man who once thought fought more than ten rounds with a fractured jaw and he fought to complete exhaustion. and victory. in that legendary clash of greats in manila. the real mystery i guess is how he stayed so pretty. probably had to do with his

beautiful soul. he was a fierce fighter and he's a man of peace. just like odessa and cassius clay senior believed their son could be. across the world, billions of people know muhammad ali as a brave, compassionate and charming man and the american premium proud to call muhammad ali one of our own. [ applause ] . >> there he was 2005 sitting there alongside carroll burnett, another american icon from a very different walk of life and a very different occupation. you heard president bush there say his record was 56-5, the more important number, that is 61 professional bouts. in a punishing profession. that's a lot of punishing blows. even as good as muhammad ali

was, things like the ali shuffle, this enormous man who was at the same time so graceful had such fluid movement. we now know the price he paid for those crushing blows. he delivered scores more than that. it is just part of the life and legacy we're covering tonight with news of the death this evening of muhammad ali at the age of 74. back with more right after this. >> of all boxing, that's why i'm the greatest of all times. any of them this pretty, this colorful, this intelligent, this fast, this witty, no you. charitable.

>> this thing just shocked the whole planet and we recognized as not the greatest boxer but the greatest athlete of all time. >> muhammad ali on the "today"

program years ago in 1980. as we mentioned, he was the father of nine children, seven daughters, two sons. and as happenstance would have it, an nbc news crew sat down with his beautiful daughter laila just last week. we say beautiful daughter laila. also in the context of the next generation boxer in the ali family. we were interviewing her about a boxing profile for the upcoming summer olympic games in ryo. but on this day, the discussion was about the legacy of her father and her family name. >> when i first told my father that i wanted to box, you know, he was going to have two different emotions. being that he's a father and i'm his youngest girl he didn't want me to fight. also being he's the greatest of all time and you know he has his daughter coming behind him, he didn't want me to embarrass him.

we had two things we had to deal with in my family. i made it clear to him i was okay, i was a about big girl and ready to face whatever i had to in the ring as far as getting hurt or pain or things like that and that i wasn't going to embarrass him. once we he had that conversation and we were eye to eye, he supported me. i feel like there's always going to be people that try to hold you back from your dreams. and you have to do what's in your heart because you only have one life to live. if you go around listening toing what everyone else says and don't liston yourself, then you'll end up being a very unhappy person. i believe you should go for it. everything needs to be thought out and you need to make sure you make smart decisions along the way but ultimately you have to do what's in your heart. >> what better legacy could the champ leave. lal will la ali talking about her gad. time to bring on a family friend, reverend al sharpton. they don't get more impressive among young athletes than that.

>> no, they really don't. ali certainly loved all of his children and i think when she talked about his concern, when she was going into boxing, those that knew him and that heard him discuss it can attest to that, but she like her father, defied a lot of the skeptics because she ended up being a tremendous athlete. and maintained her beauty. and it was something that he, i believe got to be very proud of. >> i had the good fortune of meeting her a few years back as i had the good fortune of meeting her dad. and the family folk lore has it, he really had to come around in his position. it took some convincing that his beautiful daughter, it was a good idea to climb into the ring. >> yeah. it was a long, long process, but from all indications he came around. and you know, i knew ali since

my teens. we got to know each other when he supported me in a lot of my youth work and down through the years and talked by text with his wife, his ladies yesterday. we stayed in touch. it was interesting growing up knowing him and then watching him as he dealt with age and then later parkinson's. and but it was always something that you would hear from the older children that i knew how he had to really come to terms with laila's boxing career. >> reverend, i think you'll agree with me that kind of what we've been saying here tonight, there will never be another like him, a truly singular figure in the history of the world both in his combination of god-given gifts physically, verbally, mentally and the time he came up in. it's kind of like the world called for a transformative figure and there he was. >> no doubt about it.

i think that he probably personify edtransformative figures if we were to use the term. and the time he came from, his emerging as an unlikely champion. i remember i used to tell ali when i got to know him older, the only memories i had of going to the movies with my father, he took me when i was a kid before obviously before my parents broke up to see him fight closed circuit against sonny liston. and i was about 9 going on 10. and no one thought he could beat sonny liston. so he went from this unbelievable figure that one considered just full of brag doesh jab to becoming a champion and then becoming this float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. and by the time you did that, he became a black muslim. and then he became the controversial figure. then the army where he stood up

and gave it all up and became a man of unbelievable controversy, but unbelievable unshakable beliefs in something and he became an anti-war hero and then into being a second time champion. i remember the night that frazier knocked him down at the garden here in new york. and all of our dreams of the great return of ali were shattered and he fought his way back of all places in the skies under the skies of africa with george foreman and regained the title against a man who was just as awesome as sonny liston. and if that wasn't unbelievable enough, he began to transform into this statesman figure, lost the title again in an unlikely defeat and came back again. so i mean, it was like the reinvention reincarnation and each one of them iconic in nature and then as he fought

this parken son disease, i don't know if float like a butterfly, sting like a bee is more memorable than him with shaking hands lighting that torch showing against all we face and all of our flaws, that we can still light a torch. there's so many things that ali came to symbolized and mean to people, but i think the thing that i remember most is that he would always talk about how he believed in something and stood for it. and i would always say to him how he could go from one of the most hated domestic figures to a globally loved figure in one lifetime is something that we will never see again, i think, not only in our lifetimes but i don't think we'll ever see again in history. >> reverend al sharpton, you were lucky to know him and make me realize all over again i wish my dad had been willing to spend

the money for those closed circuit fights. we sat in the dark and wait ford results and hoped to see clips the next day. thanks very much for coming on with us. mike lupica, you were nodding through so much of that. this is your world. >> yeah, i was thinking there was no more important civil figrightse in the history of this country than an athlete. jackie roosevelt robinson. he retires in '57. as he leaves the stage. >> like somebody ordered. >> cassius clay is about to take the stage. >> and then he's at the olympics in 1960. i was thinking something else. my friend arthur ashe and muhammad ali couldn't possibly have been more different in demeanor. >> right. >> however, as arthur said to me one time, how could i ever let anybody tell me i couldn't do something living in the same world with muhammad ali. >> right, ash was this kind of

stately almost courtly figure. suffered terribly in the richmond, virginia of his youth where as i recall wasn't allowed to use public courts. >> and you know, we've talked about jon karl los and tommy smith tonight. >> mexico city. >> and the salute in mexico city. i was at center court in wimbledon in 1975 when arthur upset jimmy conners. if you remember when the match was over that day, in a completely uncharacteristic gesture for him, he put his fist up in the air. >> for especially conservative white sports fans it was as i was saying earlier, a long journey for them to come back around to ali. they were after kilter and scared by the race talk and then the not wanting to serve in vietnam sent a lot of them away for many, many years. >> my dad was a bombardier in the army air force in b 24s.

my 92 years young father. if anybody was going to take aggressive posture against what ali stood for it would have been my dad. my dad always says they call us the greatest generation. they talk about how brave we were. he said that man was brave. for my dad, that's all it took. >> that was an act of bravery in its time. charlie pierce is with us, former sports columnist for the "boston herald." these days with "esquire" and charlie, i know you want in on this conversation, especially placing him in the history of our society the last several daks. >> yeah, ever since the news broke, i keep having the walt whitman line ringing through my head. do i contradict myself? very well then i contradict myself. i am large i contain multitudes. i don't think there's ever been a better line written about america than that.

and i don't think there's ever been a more american life than the one born kashs clay, later muhammad ali lived because he was the one of the great manifestations of the most basic contradiction in american life which is the first two prafz of the declaration of independence. all men are created equal except account ones who want. he was a magnificent manifestation of that most american of contradictions. >> charlie, how long do you think boxing will be around? i'm looking at these old videos realizing what a different age it was. and now we view it through such a different filter of caution and head injuries and parenting is different. our society is different. i'm not saying that in the era of a sandy hook elementary, we can call ourselves a gentler society necessarily. i'm just saying that everything

has an era. certainly he came along in the golden era of boxing. >> well, certainly one of the golden eras of boxing, sure. at the same time, we can't call ourselves a gentler society when somebody' making an awful lot of money off of ultimate fighting and mixed martial arts which are in their own way much more savage than boxing is. yeah, i mean, you look at the fighters who were around when he was in his prime or when he came back, he missed most of his prime. you look at joe frazier of course, and george foreman but also the level below that, people like ron lyle, ken norton, people like ernie the a corn shavers who probably hit harder than any other bomber of his time. these were all people muhammad ali had to go through. so if you're talking about a golden age at least of the heavyweight division, he was right in the middle of it. >> charlie in the following order, i'm going to bringing in mike lupika and dave who both

are champing at the bit to get in on this. >> charlie, i was thinking as a fellow bostonian, ted williams, everybody wondered how many home runs he hit because of all the time he lost issing his country. think of how greater ali's legacy would be if he hasn't lost nearly four years because he elected not to serve his country. >> once again, one of the great contradictions. but you know, the difference between ted williams and muhammad ali is the difference in the wars they were confronted with. yeah, i don't know what those missing years would have been like. i do remember that right before it all hit the fan, "sports illustrated" ran this incredible series of pictures which were at that point state-of-the-art using strobe lights and time lapse photographer and things that demonstrated how fast and how athletic he really was before he went away >> he incredibly fast.

charlie, i was just going to add that it is his guaigs vietnam. his conviction about vietnam. again, especially those of us growing up in military families, that was a rel tough sell. it was seen as anything but courage jus at the time. it was such a polarizing conflict. it was chewing up hundreds of eventually thousands of our young men every year. a very tough time in society. dave ziron, you want in on this conversation. >> you mentioned the war in vietnam. one of the undersold part of ali's history is 1967, he's banned frif boxing. he really has nobody in his corner. the money's running out and he chose to go on a campus speaking tour. he had already been sentenced to five years in federal prison at this point. and he was out on appeal and waiting to appeal the case. so the government took his passport away. in one respect he had no where to go. in the other, he had a new

generation you have people, anti-war activists, black freedom struggle activist who's wanted to hear what he has to say. by one county read he spoke on almost 200 campuses over the course of a little more than a year. three, four campuses a week. there's an electric documentary the trials of muhammad ali that charts his speaking at these campuses. how in the beginning he's a little bit stilted and feeling insecure talking to college kids. but by the end of the year, he's at the ivies knocking people down left and right with his debating skills. it's really a remarkable thing. and i think part of his great story is how he redefines intelligence in our minds. the other thing i wanted to say, i have to go back to the previous segment when you were showing the bush clip. this is what makes ali so relevant to this day and why so many people mourn him in different ways. >> that was september of 2005. george w. bush puts a medal

around the neck of ali. contemporaneous with that moment, there was a protest in new orleans after hurricane katrina where a woman held up a sign that said no iraqi ever left me to die on a roof. a direct reference to what muhammad ali said about no viet cong ever called me the "n" word. that idea what he said then civil speaks to people today in a way that does speak truth to power and challenge people in powerful positions is one of the reasons why his relevance i think will never die. >> charlie, one of the topics we handled with dave earlier in our conversation was the part of muhammad ali's life and career, people don't dwell on as much. he had trouble exiting the stage cleanly, gracefully and at the right time. >> yeah, i mean, he did hang on to too long. i think it was joyce carroll oats who said that the worst

thing about i think, i don't know if she was referring to the first or the second fight with joe frazier but the worst thing about one of those fights was he learned he could take a punch. and you know, as i think mike pointed out earlier, before the exishlgs he didn't visit to worry about that because you weren't going to hit pim. but again, i go back to the same theme of contradictions. this is a guy who for all his ben effective lens could be enormously cruel in the ring. he was very cruel to floyd patterson and ernie terrell. and you know, he was in a very cruel business. and i don't think that part of it ever eluded him. >> we were talking about his tour of the ivy leagues. speaking in any form on any ivy league campus would quake most of us to our boots. it is something he later found a comfort level in part of his appearance at harvard now.

>> love can be seen in all aspects of life once we understand it. love for those who depend upon one. love for those who one comes in contact with in everyday life. love for one's country. love for one's race. love for humanity. it can even extend to love for the smallest creature or insect that lives. if we study the qualities of the heart, we will find that the hard quality say loving quality. it becomes the loving manner of god himself. all such attributes as greatness, tolerance, gentleness, mercy, compassion spring from the heart. the great teachers and the great prophets of god, they did not become what they were by their mirral kaz or their wonder workings. what was most apparent in them was their loving manner. read the lives of the prophets. look at the way jesus christ treated all those who came to

him. when the great sin sers were expelled from society and brought to the master, he raises them up with his compassion. jesus was on the side of the guilty accused ones. the fishermen with the mask that never understood him. yet the master lived with all of them and won their hearts in the end. this was by the loving manner. so the first and post important thing that we all must try to understand is the cultivating of the hard quality and there's only one way to cultivate the heart quality and that is to become more and more self-less, not selfish but self-less. what prevents man from the loving manner is the thought of his. and the more we think of self, the less we think of others until at the end of the journey in life, self-meets us like a big giant. and a giant will problem to be the stronger. but with the first step we take, if we take it on the spiritual path, we struggle with this

giant. >> wow. 1975 on the campus of harvard. i'm told that reverend al sharpton is still able to see and hear us. that was preaching by any other title something you have a little bit of experience in. >> yeah, well, you know, if you you were ever around him, he would go over these quotes and he would always have these little sayings. he was almost like always testing his material. and he was very good at it. and he was very sincere about it. but he had all of these parables, all these quotes and sayings. he also, brian, had a side of him that was fun because he liked to do little magical tricks. and you would be in a serious moment and you'd feel him doing something behind your ear and playing magical tricks. but something i never told talking about his timed relevance, a couple of years ago, one of my national action network board members is part of

the team representing cam newton, the quarterback. he called me and said for cam's birthday, mcmorris said he wanted to surprise him and could i arranging to having mrs. ali talking to cam as a surprise to wish him a happy birthday. so i called her. i set it up. she told me what time 0 call the house in phoenix and i called cam, wished him a happy birthday. i said hold on and i put on mrs. ali. i connected with my cell phone. mrs. ali said you have cam on? and he said yes. he said this is mrs. muhammad ali. he said, oh, my god. your husband was my idol. she said hold on a minute. ali literally how had problems speaking at this time, we're only talking about a couple years ago, said man, you pretty like me. this kid went bananas. even though when he would have those moments ef break through, you would use it. you have the guy who just became

the biggest guy in football generations after ali's great statue just excited probably this biggest birthday because muhammad ali got on the phone and through his fighting this disease wished him a happy birthday. this is cam newton. so relevance is never going to be an issue with muhammad ali >> i will say cam newton among the better looking young athletes out there. since you've been talking, we just saw the history of min's fashion and i cons through the years. that picture, oh, my goodness. look at that. ali, the godfather of soul and then on the right, maybe 200 pounds ago, is al sharpton. that's unbelievable. >> that's 1981. muhammad ali and james brown brought me on thetom snyder show to talk about the '80s. and reagan had just came in. and what they thought was going to be what was going to happen

in urban and black communities and they wanted to introduce me to america and we did tom snyder's show. probability first network show i did. to be introduced to the nation by the two biggest legendsed of that time in ali, arguably the most famous man in the world at that time is something that i'll never forget. notwithstanding the wardrobe that you mentioned. >> you're fine. james brown may he rest in peace is proof if you're going to wear the v-neck and the vest and the cowboy hat, just be sure to own it. he owned it because he was james brown. reverend, thank you very much. mike lupica is looking at all of this like great comic relief. i was a young kid high school recovering from knee surgery after a tragic high school football career. visiting a hotel in new york with my family elevator door opens, there's the greatest. july 4th, 1976.

it was like being in the presence of a deity. i didn't know what to do. it's an unbelievable feeling. > i'm watching an the speech at harvard and thinking this is harvard. >> wow. >>s in a convert to islam. but the more he got revved up, i'm thinking, that would play great on sunday at the abyssinian. new york city. >> oh, yeah. by the way, no teleprompter no, text. while he probably has touched all those themes going across college campus biz that time in his life, 1975, that's still extemporaneous beautiful speech with a theme and with a pace to it. >> that's a star. and i mean, there's qualities to stardom that you can't define. there's a magic to this man. and we spent a lot of time tonight talking about the force of his talent. but the force of his talent wouldn't have been the same without the force of his personality and when he would

get going like that, you had an insight into this man's heart and soul. you did. and it sounds corny but it's not. anybody who was ever in his presence, especially you get in the small rooms before a fight, it could be overwhelming. > the point you made earlier tonight, we have the great good fortune in our line of work, especially in this city of going to a lot of star-studded charity functions. i think i was at one of the buoniconti family charity dinners. muhammad ali in his final years and after he was robbed of of his ability to speak, you go up to him to greet him and he would do that great thing like he was going to haul off and smack you. then he would break into a wide smile. it was his way of communicating. it was magical. you felt ten feet tall. >> yeah. when you look at the sweep of this pan's life, this american life and in this extraordinary sports career and you know, and

we were talking before we came on the air. we've had a lot of boxers in this country. okaying? back to jack johnson and tunney versus dempsey and graziano versus zeal and bu silvio versus jersey joe robinson. >> smelling louis. all that stuff. you can make a case that the man we're talking about who passed away tonight fought the three most famous fights in history. ali/frazier one, rumble in the jungle, thriller in manila. >> dave, it's time for you to be profound. pick up right where mr. lupica left off. >> i spoke at the momentum ald little center ten years ago. got out of airport in louisville. my cab driver was a vietnam vet sniper and he was listening to rush limbaugh loud in the car. he was talking about how angry he was about these anticipate protesters. and then i couldn't help it, i

said i am going to the muhammad ali center, the most famous draft resistor in the history of warp. as a vet and as a proud member of rush's army, what do you think about ali? he said you got to love ali. i said, what do you mean? he said look, ali was drab and ali risked all. you got to respect that he. >> you know, i keep coming back to his title. the greatest and how many millions of people are really going to learn what they know about muhammad ali over these next few days? those of us lucky enough to share a patent and a time frame and part of a lifetime with him i'm not talking about those of house were lucky enough to know him. i did not. those of us who were lucky enough to watch him to, see him, to exist alongside of him, he was the only one who proclaimed himself the greatest. and then backed it up.

and it's through tracing his life and times that you trace american life over the past few decades. mike, we've been saying, warfare, race relations, the struggle. athletics. marketing, branding to be gross about it. communications, and just being a charismatic icon. >> brian, there about it. the moment that we've all continued to circle back to tonight is the olympics in atlanta in 1996. and even in that impaired state, his voice stolen, his grace stolen. where you wondered if he coactually get the torch lit one more time. this manmade the world stop and watch and hold its breath and may attention to him. not bad. >> we wanted to let everyone know coming up in the next hour is a special look at the life and times of muhammad ali. there will be many hours of

commemoration in the days to come on up to and including the final service for muhammad ali in his hometown of louisville. to put a finer point on it, a point we made earlier this evening, he became famous in the era before social media when either through your word or deed, you will to back it up. and you became famous the hardaway. these days on social media, it takes you a few minutes. you can find a few thousand people no doubt proclaiming themselves to be the greatest. but for this man in, our times and what will now become the time of muhammad ali, trust us as you'll see over these next few days. he really was, again, we will continue remembering the life and times, the career, the magic, the brilliance, the charisma of this man born

cassius clay, became muhammad ali, became a living legend. our thanks to all our guest who have helped us through our coverage. and that will do it for this hour of our coverage. muhammad ali gone at the age of 74. ♪ i am the greatest. >> he knew it before the world did. >> i will be the youngest heavywieght champ in history. >> knew it when he was cassius clay. >> i'm bad. i'm pretty. i can't be beat. >> charismatic. and brash. >> i'm dynamite. >> he brought spectacle and theater to the ring. >> then, changed his name. >> cassius clay is my slave name. >> i don't think you could have