all i'm doing is waiting to die. it's the world's longest waiting room. it's depressing sometimes. this sunday, he was more than just a boxer or a celebrity or even the greatest. >> that's one hell of a lot of difference in fighting in the ring and going to war in vietnam. >> muhammad ali paved the way for a sports star to speak out in politics and we'll focus on that part of his legacy as we remember the man, the athlete, and the icon with bob costar, bryant gumbel, and jim brown. >> plus, statements like these from donald trump -- >> this judge is of mexican heritage. i'm building a wall. okay? >> are leading to statements like these from other republicans. >> the comment about the judge the other day just was out of left field in my mind.

it's reasoning i don't relate to. >> are donald trump's supporters simply supporters in name only? i'll ask a man who may be one. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell. also, with hillary clinton and donald trump's favorable ratings setting record lows, could this be the year that an independent candidate makes a difference? libertarian party nominee gary johnson is with us. and joining me this morning for insight and analysis are ron fournier of the national journal, democratic congresswoman donna edwards of maryland, andrea mitchell of nbc news, and lanhee chen of the conservative hoover institution. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." good sunday morning. there are so many things you could say about muhammad ali, brash, charming, loud, funny, rutd, brave, occasionally cruel, uniquely talented.

eternally fascinating, always original, and ultimately the most famous person on earth. as much as any athlete, muhammad ali elaszed the line between athlete and activist. he made it possible to speak out about politics, race, and religion in tumultuous times. they paved the way for moments like this in the 1968 summer olympics in mexico city. ali famously refused induction into the army in the vietnam war, a move that cost him 3 1/2 years of his career in his prime. >> just how far would you go to keep from taking up arms? >> i would die. anything that's against my religious beliefs, i would rather face machine gun fire before deviate from the teachings of all mighty god and the religion of islam. >> he was in it to the end. this past december, he put out this statement after donald trump's proposed muslim ban

following the attacks in paris and san bernardino. speaking of someone who has never been accused of political correctness, i believe our political leaders should utheir position to bring understanding about the religion of islam and clarify these misguided murders have perverted the view of what islam really is. we're joined by bob costas, bryant gumbel, jim brown, hall of fame running back for the cleveland browns. br bri brian, let me start with you. you have the awesome responsibility of putting ali's life in perspective later this week. nobody envies you. but we wouldn't be leading the show here today if we were just talking about ali the boxer. >> you're absolutely right, chuck. yes, it is terribly daunting. i confess, it's intimidating. but you noted some of the roles he played. he was so much more than a boxer. i thought wesley morris said it well in this morning's "new york

times." he said every fight seemed like a referendum on the country. if not the country at large, certainly on black america. you know, he came at a time when so many of us, of a certain age, were convinced that our views were right. and he was our flag bearer for those views. so when he got in the ring, if he won, we felt we were on the side of what was just and what was right. and on those few occasions when he did not prevail, it was as if we had been personally insulted or misled or misguided. and he was just a remarkable man. i know that's an overly simplistic way of putting it, but it was for me the best way. he was kwie remarkable. >> bob? >> well, his life was so textured, if he didn't have all the qualities that bryant just referred to, then he wouldn't be what he was. but then there's just the sup superfishel stuff that mattered because if you can't pull it off, if you can't compel people, bring people to the stage -- a,

you have to win, but he was also physically beautiful, graceful, funny and charming as well as provocative. there was a tremendous texture to the man's life and to her personal. to say that he was any one thing sells him short. he was so many things. and the combination of those things made him unique. >> let me bring in jim brown. in many ways, jim brown, you and muhammad ali were attached at the hip at those tumultuous times. and in many ways, supported each other during times when you would be attacked by the media, you would be attacked by political leaders. >> that's absolutely true. but the greatest thing about muhammad ali is that he represented himself as a great american because americans will stand up for freedom and equality and justice. it has nothing to do with color. he also loved people.

but he loved good people. and he hated discrimination. and so when i joined force es wh him is he was a good american, i was an american, but we would not accept second-class citizenship. and people were always trying to get us to become second-class citizenship, and that was a no-no in his life and in my life. >> jim brown, how much pressure did you receive sometimes from others, sometimes from other civil rights leaders to say, hey, let's not speak out today on this or on that back then? >> well, muhammad ali set the standard. he set the bar. and we had a summit in cleveland to really find out just where he was coming from and to support him if we believed in his sincerity. and that bar that he set impressed every one of those individuals. bill russell, kareem abdul-jabbar, carl stokes, the first black mayor of a major

city. all of these individuals were impressed with him, and we came out of that meeting as a unit of individuals that would support him at the risk of everything that the federal government would throw at us. >> you know, bryant and bob, there was at that time, there was some skepticism early on about ali. how much of this was just hype? did he really believe it? and then he sat out. he went ahead and sat out. and he fought the government on vietnam. >> yeah, as everyone knows. he was so highly principled. by today's standards, there's no comparison. i mean, not just the money he could have made, but in terms of his public image, and really that's one of the more remarkable things about the arc of this man's life. millions of thoz who came to love and revere muhammad ali were among his fiercest critics early on. you and i will remember dick young leading the charge of the press.

it was also middle class america who found him too loud, too arrogant, too black, too muslim. and these people because he was so principled came to revere him, and even if they didn't love him, had to say, wow, you know, mad respect. >> without compromising who he was, he won so many people over by the weight of the evidence. the people who doubted him, as bryant said, you couldn't doubt whether you agreed with him or not, you couldn't doubt the honor and integrity behind stepping away. he didn't know it would be three and a half years at the peak of his athletic career. it could have been his entire remaining life he would never step through the ropes again. millions of dollars, the platforms. he was a vain and egotistical man, that was among his qualities. he could have given that up. he was willing to do it. that was a stand of principle. he could have gone to prison. he was sentenced to five years in prison. he was out while it was being

appealed and eventually the supreme court sided with him. you had to respect that. then there were those who said he is all flash and dash. he's not a real old-school fighter. that's where he owed a debt to joe frazier. they came to respect each other because they elevated each other. frazier forced him to dig deep. >> when he began, his best skill was to avoid a punch, and towards the back end, he was revered because he could take a punch. >> jim brown, you were in zaire at the time for that foreman fight, and i love there was some references as he was doing rope a dope, he was winking at you rinkside to let you know, hey, everything is okay. i know what i'm doing here. take us back to that scene of the weeks in the run-up there that you were with him. >> i was the color man, and david frost was the play-by-play

announcer, and i had gone to george foreman's camp to spar with him. and i saw foreman hit the heavy bag. and i refused to spar with him because of the way he thought the heavy bag, i thought, my goodness, if he hit me, it would break my ribs. i went to ali's camp. i said, look, you're my friend, but i don't know about that george foreman. he hits awfully hard. i'm with you, but i don't know if you can beat him. when he started to win in the ring, he came over and said, big fella, what do you think now? and i thought, this guy is unbelievable. in the middle of a fight, he's going to tell me how wrong i was when i said foreman was going to beat him. so he had the ability at these dramatic moments to be a humoro humorous, stand-up comedian, and i loved him for it. and the 1 thing, and i want to say this, i want to say thanks,

lonnie, for looking out for the champ. this man was a great american, because america did not take a back seat to anybody. why would you want to have an african-american heavyweight champion that was not like muhammad ali, a great american? >> hey, bob, you know, that moment in the '96 olympics. >> yeah. >> it is one of those just chills up your spine moments, goosebumps, everything. but it was -- was that the moment when everybody in america realized, oh, yeah, we all love him now? >> it was a tremendous moment of reconciliation. we can't forget how provocative and to many people frightening a figure he was at the height of his boxing career. and we shouldn't say that, well, yes, he became a lovable person because of his affliction and he wasn't so threatening. it was a combination of things. his life had an extraordinary arc. but at this point, you had a

moment of reconciliation. you could sense even in the moment, not just upon reflection, you could sense that everybody in the stadium that night and everyone around the world kind of had the same thought. no matter how anyone felt about any particular chapter of his life, you had to say that in the big picture, this was a person of abundant humanity and of essential decency, and everyone admired and respected him. just about everyone. >> bryant, was there a point in time -- you were, i felt like, the chronicler of him in the '80s in the first period of his retirement. when was the moment you thought, boy, white america has embraced muhammad ali now? >> i don't know if i ever thought of it in those terms, to be honest, chuck. i really didn't. you know, as bob alluded to, the arc of this man's life was just amazing. so i'm not necessarily sure i ever took a temperature of it and said, oh, wow, this is when it's turned the corner, but you could see it incrementally,

every time he took to the world stage. it was amazing. you spoke earlier about him being the most famous man of his time. i would make the case that by sight, by voice, and by name, he may have been the most famous person of our -- certainly of our lifetime, maybe of all time, in that you could go anywhere in the world and say his name or show his picture or play a recording of his voice, and people would instantaneously know who he was. that's amazing power and amazing platform that he seemed intelligently to never misuse. >> i remember an article that bob green wrote in the chicago tribune. he had spent some time with ali. they were aboard a plane descending into some american city. muhammad said sort of matter of factually, look down at all those houses with their lights on. i could knock on any door and not only would they know who i was, they would invite me in. >> jim brawown, i want to give u

the last word here. obviouslier he's made it easier for today's athletes to speak out and not be attacked and not be marginalized. what should today's athletes -- what lesson should today's athletes take from you and muhammad ali and the things you did for them in the '60s? >> that money is not god. and human dignity is very important. your integrity is way up there. and as a single human being, if you carry yourself in a certain way, you can defy all evil that comes out of it. i would like to make one thing very clear. muhammad ali loved people. and he had white friends as well as black friends. and on the thing that he hated was discrimination and racism. and so that's the way that i look at him, and that's how i'd

like to close out my talking to you today. >> i appreciate it, jim brown. i appreciate you coming on and sharing your memories of him. bryant gumbel, bob costas, also a pleasure. bryant, i don't know how you're going to do it next friday, but good luck. >> if you have any suggestions, let me have them, chuck. >> i appreciate it. all right. >> take care. >> all right. in a moment, the presidential campaign. yes, we're still talking politics here. and the emergence of a new breed of trump supporter, calling them steinoes, supporters in name only. the term could apply perhaps to my next guest, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell. >> and could gary johnson's candidacy on the libertarian line make a difference in this year's presidential election? with two deeply unpopular candidates, it just might. he joins me later in the show. >> my intention is to box, to win a clean fight.

oh, look... ...another anti-wrinkle cream in no hurry to make anything happen. neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair works... ...in one week. with the... fastest retinol formula available. it's clinically proven to work on fine lines and... ...even deep wrinkles. "one week? that definitely works!" rapid wrinkle repair. and for dark spots, rapid tone repair. neutrogena®. "see what's possible."

welcome back. at frst glance, it would apire th republan establishme is starting to rally around donald trump. add in an endorsement from paul ryan this week to the list why it looks that way. but the problem, trump backer s might just be what i call rinos, supporters in name only.

yes, they say they'll vote for trump or oppose clinton. but when trump steps in it, as he did this week when he insists a judgecouldn't be fair b he wasspanic, his pporters ece camera fry. joning menow, mitch mcconnell, thor of a new memoir,ost andblunt, clled the long gae. >> glad tobe here. >> before i getto polics, you're a louisville nave. >> iam. >> in fact, i believe whenyou were heading intocoeg wn muhammad ali, then ssius clay came back a an olympic gold medalist, there wasn'the greatest reception. >> in the eards, it was controversial, bute clear outlived all his memories. he's the most interesting man i the world, and we're proud of th fact he's from louisville, kenucky. >> when did it feelik - you go to louisvillenow, andt fels anmage to him. when do youeel like lisville said, boy, he's our vorite

son? >> i think at the same te your previous segment indicated. heorof moved beyond some of the controversial positions he took earlier in the life. he d be the most interesting man in world, and we we prud o the fact he was from uisville. >> i noted you have a new book, been on a book tour. i'm nothe first persono interview you and ask you about donald trp, so i wt to play arra of comments you have made about donald mp in the last week. he they are. >> donald trump iscertain a differe kind ofandide. i d't agree with everything trumpaysr does,ut i do now at we now have a choice, a choice between two ve unpopul candidaes. ery unpopular. do i agree with a lot of things trump says? no. >> you sound -- i know you're voting for him. if the weren't a supreme court vacancy, would you be? >> absolutely. i think eight years of barack obama's administration is enough. and one thing we know for sure is that hillary clinton will be four more years just like the last eight. all the slow growth, america is clearly underperforming.

and i think we need to go in a different directi, and whatever you think aboutonald trump, he's certainly a different direction. i think that's what the country needs. >> you know, y -- in your book, you spend a lot of time talkingbout your mentor in th senate and how hetood up against barry goldwater. you voted for lbj. he went head and suppoed the civil rights act. you worry that barry goldwater would leave a stain on the party. are you worried donald trump is going to leave a stain on the party the way goldwater did? >> i am concerned about the hispanic vote. america is changing. when ronald reagan was elected 84% of the electorate was white. this november, 70% will be. it's a big mistake for our par to write off latino americans. and they're an important part of the country and soon to be the largest minority group in the country. am i concerned about that. i hope he'll change his direction on that. >> i have heard a lot of republicans say i hope he'll

stop this, i hope he'll do this, whatever it's been on, whatever he has said about a specific ethic group or somebody else. but he hasn't. at what pnt do you stop hoping and realize it not going to ppen >> look, i thinke's a very competitivecaidate. i think merica is looki for a diferentdirection,sobody entirely new. but this is a go time, it seems t me, to begin to unify the party and to unify thearty by not settling scores and grudges against people you have en competing wit e'reallbehind him now. nd i would like to see him reach out and pu us all together and give us a real shot atinning this vember. >> you know what he's said about this federal judge overseeing the trump university lawsuit. he has called -- he has essentially said he cannot be impartial because he's hispanic. is that not a racist statement? >> i couldn't disagree more with a statement like that. >> is that a racist stement? >> i couldn't disagree more with what he had to say. >> okay, but -- do you think

it's a racist statement? >> i don't agree with what he had to say. this is a manwho was born in ndia all of us came here from somewhere else. almost all americans are either near-term immigrants like my wife who came here at age 8 not speaking a word of english or the rest of us whose ancestors were risk takers who came here and made this country great. that's an important part of what makes america work. >> i'm going to read you somethg that erick erickson, a conservative commentary wrote yesterday. the attacks are racist. to claim someone is able to objectively and professnally perfm his job because of his race is racism, and damn the gop for its unwillingness to speak up on this. the party of lincoln intends to circle the wagons around a acist. damn them for that. what do you say? >> i think the party of lincoln wants to win the white house. the right of center world needs to respect the fact that the

prary voters have spoken. donald trumpas won the nomination the old fashioned way. he got more votes than anybody el. is he eerfect caidate for aot of us? he isn't. but w have a two-party syem here. and hlary clinton is certnly not something that thi wuld be go for the country for -- toontinue basical the obama adnistration for another four years. >> if you end upith a president clinton, do you imagin you'll be able wrk better? yo writen yourmemoir, wa't easy working th president obama. it's prty clear that you and he see the world very differently politically, but al the backnd forths that you d, you didn't find very helpful. do you imagineyou would have a better working relationship with a president hillary clinton? >> i would rather be woing with donald trump. for one thing, i know he's going to appoint the right kind of person to the supreme court. he already put out a list. i think it's a good list of the kinds of people he would consider for the high court. we know that even if he differs with us on some issues, he's

going to be right of center. i would rather be working with donald trump, and i think that's the opportunity i'm going to have. >> let me ask you this, then. if you're a republican running foreecon and a seat and you're notomrtabl with donald trump, wt do you sto the ver atsn't comfortab wh donald trump and worres that it's a reflection on the republicanparty? what do you say to the voter that mayunish a rubcan senat candidatecae of trump? >> well, look, i don't think that's going thappen nate racesre ste-wide races. they're big races. they have a lot of money spent. great opportunity to paint your own piure, how you're representing the pple in your particular ate. i'm very conf that these senate candidates that we have, and we do have aot exposure this year, 24 republicans up and only 10 demrats. will rise and fall on their own merits. >> you don't believe the presidential race -- do you believe you can hold the senate if donald trump loses the presidential race? >> the year bill clinton got elected, we gained two seats in

the senate. the year reagan carried 49 of out 50 states, we lost two seats. we don't know what's going to happen at the presidential level. i hpe america will choose to go in a differentdirection, but the senate rac are big enough to stand on their own two felt. that's how we're goi to save the senate majority. >> all right, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell. thanks for coming on. congrats on the book, and we'll see you soon, i hope. >> thank you. >> when hillary clinton thumped donald trump in a big speech this week, trump seemed to have little to say in response. how bad was trump's week? we'll look at that when we come back. why do you insist on being called mammad ali now? >>hat's the name given to me. that's my original name, a black man name. cassius cl was my slave name.

wcome back. panel here. ron fournier ofhe natioal journal. donnedwards of maryld, andr mitchell, and lanhee chen from the curonservative ub institution. lanhee, welcome to the ble, si other members,come as well. andr, let mert with is s over allhings havin to do with trump and this federal ge. first of all, he has been ethnicit sce febar take a look. >> i bieve he happens to be sf spanish, which is fine he's hispanic,hich is fine. >> i in he has been very, very unfair with us. i think the judge has been extremely unfair. >> t judges in this court

system, federal court, they ought to look into judge curiel, because what judge curiel is doing is a total disgrace. >> he's a mexican. 're building awallbetween re and mexi. >> just to get thison the record, his attorneys have not filed a motion asking the judge to recuse himself. so the rhetoric doesn't match the actis. >> you have to thi that wh he's trying to do, perhaps, if ere's a strategy here, is to force the judge to take himself off, saying this has now become too political. the judge under the ethics rule is not allowed to argue back. he can't defend himself in the public arena. he can holdond ump contempt. he' got a lotof other apons, but people iheudicial nferce, people in the judiciary are horrified by this. constitutional scholars are concerned. people who have not criticized donald trump are saying is questions the separations of powers and it is blatantly racist. there's no other way to describe

going after this judge based on his ethnicity. >> of course, this is notrategy. it's a politic stragy. hs moved beyond the dog whistle. this is a racist bull hrn to ll the rest of amicahat if you're not white a you're not a christian, you can judge me. >> well, and the fact that is the lawyers haven't filed a motion for recusal becau there is no basis t file that motion. you cannot move to recu a judge beuse the jdg is of mexican desct. he's an american. he's a judge. and dona tru is trying to tigate his casen the public on the presintial campaign. it's ridicous. >> i thnk at sompoint the republican party has to begin to look past jst one election. and it seems me that t sortf focus on a single election and winning a single election is onething. really thinking about where is the party headed? what doeshetoric like this do to a party in 2012, after the 2012 election, tried to assess

how successful they could be with minority voters. >> you know who tried to assess this? donald trump. this is donald trump in november 2012. the democratsidn't have a policy for dealing with illegal immigrants buthatthey did have going for them is they weren't mean-srited about it. th didn't know what the policy was, but what they were is th were kind. omney had a crazy policy of self portation which was maacal. it sound as bad as it was and he all the latino vote, the asian vote, everyone who was insred to come int this country. where is that donald trump? >> senator mcconnell just told you. the party of lincoln wntso win the white house. that's how cynical this. to your point a short-term strategy. >> this is a party that is going to lose not only -- they have already lost a generation of african-americans, multiple generations. they're going to lose a generation of latino voters,and they are going to lose the american public because, you know, they're not willing to call out, and for senator

mcconnell to say that t party of lincoln is only interested in winning is pretty shameful statement. >> the fact that john mccain, because of the hispanic vote, is after fi terms in the sene being the party standard bearer, and being someon univsally adred in many quarters, rpuican and democrat, because of the top of the tick, and thisouldf course also contribute to losing the enate. i tnk tit'shat jim brown just sa a muhammad ali. money is not god. huan dignity and tegrity matter. winning is not everything. >> speaking of winning is everyth the a new trpuper pac out. they hav their first ad they're goi to deb later in the wee we ha an clusive first lo it. asou can see, nothing abou donald trp in it w. re it is. >> i want to say one thing. >> we turned over everything. >> i want you to listen to me.

>> i did not -- >> i did not -- >> i did not send classified material. >> not a single time. >> and i did not receive -- >> ever. >> any materialhatas marked or designated classified. >> i never told anybody to lie. >> that's all i can say. >> i don't know how it works digitally at all. >> all right, this ad is going to start on national cable later in the week. this is going to be the trump super pac, ron. it's obvious the message, not pro-trump, they're going to do, whatever you think ofhim, remember the clintos. >> right, this is an election negative partisanship. they know americans gointo vote against who they hate the wot. this iseffectve. trustis the goal point of politics, spposed to be. and t clintons for all their squdeng trust. a history of and this was, again, this w a cynic strategy by the con people. they gambled that trust was not

going to matter, that they could get away with this e-mail business and the public would forgive them or they would draw a candidateven worse. andit looked -- >> temperamet. >> this is going toe a race to the bottom. that's very clear. an ad like that wll be effective. the questions at some point, do either of them try to rise above? the answer probably is no. but i think it would serve trump well to start to articute a little bit of an agenda, don't you think? >> hillary clinton and bernie sanders have been running a campaign that's based on issues and based on subsnce. this is not. >> all rig. going to pause it there. we'll be back. you'll have more bites of this apple. we'll be ba in a mnt with a ma who just may he bigger impact on this presidential election than you may think. libertarian nominee and former republican governor, by the way, of mnew mexico, gary johnson. could he win enough votes to swing the election to one candidate or the other or could he be the surprise? >> he made decisions and lived with the consequences of them,

and he never stopped being an americans even when he became body pain? motrin helps you be an... "i can totally do this in one trip" kind of woman. when pain tries to stop you, motrin works fast to stop pain. make it happen with motrin® liquid gels. also try motrin pmo relieve pain andelp you sleep.

headhe? motrin helps you be an unstoppable kind of mom. when pain tries to stop you, motrin works fast to stop pain. make it happen with motrin® liquid gels. also try motrin pm to relieve pain and help you sleep.

welcome back. there have been two presidents named johnson. the first, andrew johnson, took office when president lincoln w assassinted,as evenally impeached. the second was lyndon johnson, who also gained the white house as the result of a assassination. his ambitions for his great society ran up against h unpopular support for the vietnam wa and chose not to run for re-election in 1968.

my next guest, gary ohnson, hopes to be the third johnson. his candidacy couldt a minimum swing the election oneay or another. he joins me no welcome to the show. great bng here. >> welcome ba. inowou were here years ago. good to veou back. yo say you believe the great middle of this country is bertarn. howdo you convince the great de of the country that they are? >> ju the notion that most people, i think, are fiscally conservative andocially liberal. and mostpeople, i tnk, recognize that ou military interventions for the most part e having the unintended consequence of ming things worse, no better. >> are you coortabl with the idea you might be a spoiler? >> i don't think i'm going to be a spoiler in this. i think it's real a draw from both sides. >> do you believe that? you're going to draw equally, or do you think that ultimately, you're going to become the sort of the way station for republicans that can't support trump? >> you know, my name has

appeared in three national polls. 10%, 10%, 11%, and in those polls, they did a bit of analysis and determined i took morevos away from hilary. at the end ofhe day, i think it's going to be a aw from both sides. >> how mch have you reached out to people like mitt romney and others who have beenteadfast in their trump? >> i neveround it effective to ac out to body. when they reh o to your ide, that's when it tually is effective. that's what we're finding, is people are reaching out to us. i'm talking, too, about my running mate, bill weld. a terrific bit. he joined the ticket, two republican governors serving in heavlylue stateshat got re-elected by big margins. >> i want to ask you about litle bit aboutr governing philosophy. you're known for being -- u were known for all of those vetoes, i think about 750 of them when you were gvernor of new mexico. you were overridden only a handful of times, but one was a big override, the budget.

>> that's the republicans at the end who say we give up. you're not going to be around, we'll deal wh it. >> i heard you talk about all of the agencies you would inate let me ask the questio differently, as a libertarian, you want to eliminate someseven cabinet posts if you become esiden what is the role of goverent in your ew? >> well, less government. i mean, sller vernment. i think government tieso do o much. nd at the end of t day, it taxes too much, and tha money out of your and my ocked. >>whathoul it regulate, what should the federal government be? >> protect us against individls,oups, corporaons, foreign gernments that would do us ha. at th end of the day, i'm looking to get eleed pesiden the unit ates. i'm going to sign off on an reducton i the federal gornment. agenciesspecific. i can't wave a magi wand and make tse things happen, but yeah, smaller governments a good thing. if yu're looking forthe smaller government uys, i would be the libertarian tiet.

>> what shld it be regulating? that's what i'm trying to get specific. what is it the government should be involved in? youay for instance heal c should it have a role in health care? >> i think that we should pro a safetynet. i just thinkhate have gone way over the lne th regard to dening those in need and that if w don't reform medicaid and ourselves without bein ableo providthat. i think at t end of the day as a result of government spending, at some point we're gog to have really horrible inflation in this country. >> let me ask you on defense. when would you use the military? when would you -- >> whatever -- >> what is that line? >> when we're attacked, wre going to attack back. i reject the notion that libertarians are isolationists. look, there should be diplomacy to the hilt, but with regard to our military interventions, boots on the ground, dropping bombs, flying drones that are killing thounds of innocent people, i think that it's had

the unintend consequence of making the world less safe. let's involve congress in de declarn of war, theyhave abdicated that responsibility to the ecutives and to the military. >> you do not believe in any military engagement that would be done on a humanitarian basis. >> no, and youan't exclude that. you don't want to sit by and watch some sort of humanitarian crisis go down, either. but so much -- >> were you in favor of bosnia, the intervention there? >> not having been involved in it at the time, i don't want to misspeak, but how about having a skeptic at the table with regard to these miliry inrventions? and yes, if we are going to mke a diffence, then count on me step up. but ouriliry interventions -- have treaes with apparently 69 coutries where wre obligated to defend the borrs. and these were treaties tat were executive treatie not authorized by congrs.

>> finaluestion for you. the rultscomen on cti night. you have had an impact will you be more comfortable if your pact elects a president clinton or a president trump? >> you know, chuck, i would not be doing this if there weren't th opportunity to win. but the only opportunity that i have of winning is to be in the presidential debates and to be in the presidential debates, i have to be in the polls. right now, i have been in three national polls. but in the meantime, there have been another 40 polls where my name has not been included. >> i understand that, but if your candidacy helps elect donald trum would take you feel as if you had a successful candidacy? >> a successf candidacy will be talki about issues that aret being talked aut right now. that's a combination, that uniqueombination of being fiscally conrvative, smaer government, and individual liberty and freedom. a person's right to choose, always come down on the side of hoice. and then when it comes to the military, look, lt's have some

skeptics here. hillary clinton arguably is the architect of our foreign interventions. that's a unique combination that neither partyoer. and atthe endf the day, you know, they're not going to just pay lip service if i'm on the stage. they're going to have to do more than that. >> but if you could not win, you have a preference of which of the other two major party candidates you would like to win? >> i wod vote libertarian. it's important also, and i know you know this, but i'm the only third-party candidate that's going to be on the ballot in all 50 states. all this talk about third pay, i'm it. >> gry johnson, we'll be watching. thank you for coming on. whenwe come back, hillary clinton's takedown of donald trump this week seemed to leave him with no answer beyond some familiar tweets and insuts. but it seems as if there was another victim that speech. bernie sanders, whose candidacy feels a little smaller today. the democratic race when we come

back. >> took a good man to whoop me.

welcome back. we're two days away from the last bigrimary da of the electnason. x states wi hold praries or caucuses on tuesday. big prize is california, the -called big enchilada. politics with a cliche. our latest poll gives clinton just a two-int lead over

bernie sanders, 49/47 among likely mocratic voters. also show close fight inside the number california is les about delegates than it is about omentum. clinton will likely gover the top in delegates even before the polls close in california on tuesday. wh does matter is momentum. she wants to rid herself of bernie sands and focus entirely on donald trump leading up to e democtic convention. got a bit of a start o this week. panel is back. before we g into bernie a minute, want to play for you a little back and forth we ha which essentially was t 24-hour period of clinton going after trump and trump responding. here it is. >>onald trp himself a raud. he is ying to scam america the way he scammed all those people at trump u. >> i think hillar very wek. i think she's pathetic. i think she should be ina for what sheid with her e-mails. >> i will leave it to the psychiatristso explain his affection for tyrant

remember i said i wa the unterpuncher, im. after what she said aboute toay in her phony speech, that was a phony speech. >> dangerously coherent. she's a lir. >> wealso had a trumpoter get egged a hassed. okay, it's june. one candidate says the other is a lunatic. the other one is saying the other candidate is a criminal and belongs in jail. where are we going? >> not in a very goodplace. i just came back from california and i heading back there tonight. the fact is that there is tremendous aiphy right now around this whole ra. yet they close the registration forcalifornia, on friday night, sacramento secretary of state announced it is unprecedented, historic, almost 18 million people now registered. 72% of tse eligible have registered to vote. and this is, i think, really generated by the concern that

the hispanics and others have about donald trump. that awfu awful egging of the trump supporter isñbzñ san jose i think, you can't separate it om the egging on, no pun ienden nortcarolina and elsewhere, thate did at his rallies. and what we have come to a really bad place. i do think that hlary clinton elevated her attacks. > nodoubt. >> a way he did not he an answer for. go ahead. >> i think hillary both elevated her attacks, but shelso elevat herself in two very compelling back-to-back arguments on a fraudulent trump unersi and dangerous incoherent national security framework from donald trump. and i think that that puts her, you know, up above. >> okay, but i put that out there because it's more of, i'm concerned what october is going to look like. i'm concerned about half the country not accepting the results in november. and not in a 2000 type style

response where everybody laid down their arms. >> i'm concerned not just about november and the way you are, but i'm concerned about the next novembs, the next two or three cs. we're in a time much like we were at the beginning of the last century where the public doesn't tru institutions, the validity of elections. when that happens, people do dangeus and totally improper things like egging a suppoer from t other side. >>re are no rule >> thi could devolve in a really ses violence and further destructionf trust in the system. >> i thi the big question, though, with hillary clinton is can she continue and sustain this tone and this attack? she gave her speech on thursday. foreign policy speech, not really a foreign policy speech. >> temperament. >> a take-down speech. then on friday, she kind of went back to the same rhetoric again. i think for her to be effective, i do think she has to be at that level with trump. i think ron's right, thateally does put the nation in jeopardy

in the sense it puts in a very, very difficult place come october, come november. >> clinton is stillrunning two ras. she's got to close out the democratic primary, and then stay in aeneral ction mode andeally arlating to t american people both her vision, but also w it is that trump will be dangous for the cory. >> bernie nders just looks mall w. et's be hone. he looks small now. >> wholse looks small because of hilla clinton idonald trump. s did wat you do to a bully you bly a bully. you mock a bully. >> wt was somportant was the tone, as donna pnting out, makin it as cm as s did, it was not a rally ere she w screaming. i was ere, was a calm, deliberate takedown, and also by using humo >> donna, you're somebody here, you have extra powers. you're a super delegate. not just a delegate, a super delegate. should there be super delegates? >> first of all, i didn't know i was a super delegate, but now that i know, i feel extra

powerful. but what i do know is that these were the rules going on, all of those knew these rules gog in, and i think it is time to rethink them, but you don't do that in e middlef a game. >> the idea tat a candite wants to connce the elite to give him an election against the people's will >> you can't make it up >> a quickprogramming note, tonight, the heroin epidemic, and a new england pce chief with a controversial proach, giving addtswho ask for help dose of compassion. josh mank owits reports. josh mank owits reports. on assignment tonight at hey there, hi. why do people have eyebrows? why do peoplput milk on cereal? oh, are you reading why people put milk on cereal? why es your tummgo "grumbily, grumbily, grumbily"? why is it all (mimics a stomach grumble) no more questions for you! ooph, that milk in your cereal was messing with you, wasn't it? yeah, happens to more people than you think... try lactaid,t's real milk, without that annoying lactose. good, right? mmm, yeah.

i got your back. lactaid. it's thmilk that doesn't mess with you.

back now with our end game segment. frankly, interesting, you guys had interesting muhammad ali stories. >> he was in cherryhill, new jersey at the gym with angela donedy. i was a young reporter in i and first he was larger than life. this was' 67-'68. you think about the mexico city olympics and how controversial it was, and he was there so much before that with the dignity and the courage of his convictions. >> donna, you have a really

interesting story. i was in kindergarten and he visited my classroom. he was big, he got down on his knees and he wanted to shake our hands and they were very big. >> before ali there was joe lewis who also helped break down barriers. >> and in his own way, it was much quieter. you know what strikes me is five decades after muhammad ali was in his prime, we have a leader of a political party that looked in a crowd and said "there is my african-american." i hope he behaves. >> it's amazing.

they don't have to just be sports stars any more, you know? they can talk about all issues. >> that's all we have for today. we're back next week because if it is sunday, it is "meet the press." it is monday june 6th. another primary win puts hillary clinton on the verge of clinching the democratic nomination. tributes continue to pour in on the death of boxing legend muhammad ali. plus major progress on a massive fast moving wild fire in southern california. a historic win for novak djokovic, and a new miss usa is crowned. >> good monday morning, everybody. hillary clinton