♪ everything your family touches sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. because no one kills germs better than clorox. if you were asked to be secretary clinton's running mate, do you believe you could do it, and by that i mean the most important job of being a vice president is to be ready to be president if god forbid something happened to the

commander in chief. i ask you because ed rendell, former dnc chairman, former pennsylvania governor, said recently that you were not in any way, shape or form ready to be commander in chief. i want to know if you think you could be. >> yes, i do. >> good morning, everyone. welcome to "a.m. joy." elizabeth warren, the shero of progressive democrats and fiery critic of wall street has taken on many new roles this election season, endorser of hillary clinton, blistering critic and relentless troller of donald trump and now the democratic potential vp pick of the moment. her exchange with rachel maddow came before an hour-long meeting at clinton's home, stoking already burning speculation that warren to join clinton on a two-woman ticket. as you first heard right here on our show last week, senate minority leader harry reid has gone from hell, no to a resounding hell, yes to picking a senator as his party's vice presidential nominee, even one that comes from a republican governed state like warren's

massachusetts. so could one of her new roles include being clinton's running mate? i spoke to rachel maddow and asked her more about her big, huge interview with elizabeth warren. >> rachel, thank you for being here. >> i'm super happy to be here. i love your show. >> thank you. i love your show and major congratulations on getting the big interview of the week. this is the interview everyone wanted. elizabeth warren. wow, wow, wow. what was the most interesting thing that she said to you? >> well, that's -- first of all, it's interesting that it happened at all. this was not one of those things where there was like some big back story and we knew this was coming and we had to keep a lid on it but this was all planned and everything. we spoke to elizabeth warren's staff at 4:00 p.m. on thursday and that was the first we learned that she might want to come on the show and do the endorsement that night at 9:00 p.m. it was like we had no idea that was coming, we had no idea of the time. we were calling about something

else and it just happened right there, and we rushed and so it was very -- the whole thing was kind of shocking. but once we got into it, talking to her had a few different surprises for me. one was the way that she volunteered, i did not ask her to elaborate on her feelings about hillary clinton and what she thinks is awesome about hillary clinton, what she thinks is particular assets for her as a politician and all that stuff. she volunteered all of that. it wasn't i endorsed but i endorsed and here's all the things i like about her. i didn't know we were going to get that. i thought it might be a more reluctant endorsement. we think of her as having politics closer to bernie sanders than hillary clinton. that was interesting. i think i knew she would rip donald trump. i did not think she would so visibly enjoy ripping donald trump. i feel like she has a new vocation talking about trump. a lot of it beyond just the endorsement was fascinating. >> i thought the moment of the interview was at the end when you hit her with the ed rendell doubts about her readiness to be president. she didn't hesitate. she didn't flinch.

she said yeah, i can do it. did you get from that that she wants to be on the ticket, that she's eager to be on the ticket? does she strike you as somebody who is preparing herself to potentially be the vice preside president? >> i would love to be able to unpack that a little bit and i don't know how to do it. because i think there's two ways to understand that moment in the interview. one of them which is just my first instinct as a human about that is ed rendell said i'm not capable of doing this, i'm not qualified to do this, really, ed rendell? so part of it is like when somebody says she's not capable, she's not qualified for holding the job, i think a person's competitive and natural instinct is to say slow your roll, actually, i am perfectly qualified to do this job. that may have been it. the reason i can't unpack that is because i imbedded that in the question so i don't know if that's what she was reacting to. but the way that all of these potential vice presidential running mates react when you ask them if they want the job is

they all say no, i'm happy with my job, i'm not seeking it, you know, i'm sure i'm not in contention, it's a real honor to be considered but no, i don't want it. they all say that. she's definitely still saying that. all she told me is that she believes she would be qualified. she could be commander in chief if she were vice president and she had to, god forbid, step into that role. i take her literally at her word but that means if you take them all literally at their word, that means nobody wants to be vice president. that's hard to believe. >> neither did dick cheney. >> exactly. until he asked himself. >> until he invited himself. i have to show you, speaking of reactions, hillary clinton was asked by some reporters about this idea of elizabeth warren on the ticket. take a look at her reaction. >> -- vice presidential possibilities? >> you guys have got to try the cold [ inaudible ]. >> first of all, her kind of physical delight, i don't know what that means. >> what was happening, she was being like a human bobblehead there. she turned, i saw this while it was happening and she was in

this big scrum of reporters and somebody spoke to her and had a recorder really close to her face like uncomfortably in her physical space and she reacted to it like this, and then decided to like turn it into a joke. i think that it's a weird thing about her being a very practiced politician. she actually recoiled from somebody being way too close to her, then didn't want it to look bad and so tried to turn night a joke and it was a joke that went on for a long time. then it was a very weird moment. >> very weird. what i think a lot of people are now trying to get their minds around, there are a lot of firsts in this election, obviously. donald trump is not really that different if you look back at george wallace of the world but in terms of his success, he's a unique candidate. now we are talking about the idea of having two women on a ticket. something that clearly even one woman on a ticket has never happened before. how would that actually work in this culture that still has not been able to produce a woman president as modern and evolved as we think of ourselves as

being? >> i don't know. i feel like i want to ask joy reid. if you have got a woman at the top of the ticket which we are now, we, ever since hillary clinton was a plausible nominee going back to 2008, we have had our heads around that if -- even if we didn't achieve it until this week. once you're there, once for the first time in 240 years you got a woman at the top of the ticket, does it make it more challenging to have two women on the ticket than having one, or is it a sign of strength and confidence in a woman being at the top of the ticket that we are not then going to put a gender barrier on the number two position? i remember, i think i was the first person in this election cycle to ask hillary clinton if she had to only consider men for her running mate. i remember i put it to her, don't you need some kind of grizzly adams type to give you testosterone balance. she laughed it off and said oh, no, i'm going to consider women. i didn't know if this was an equal employment opportunity commission statement. i'm not being sexist in my hiring practices. i'm starting to believe she

might really mean it. i don't know. do you think it makes it more challenging to have two women snnchlg? >> hillary clinton represents women of a certain generation. part of what she's doing is asserting the idea a former first lady can actually be the boss and she's trying to do that in a way that i think having a man with her almost undercuts it. i don't know if you have had this happen to you. have you had men say well, i like the idea of hillary clinton because bill will be there? in a sense, i wonder sometimes if she's maybe thinking but i don't want you to think that bill would be there. >> right. you know what? i feel like in 2008 you heard that. i don't feel like you hear that anymore which may be a product of the way bill clinton campaigns. remember, in 2008, once clinton -- hillary clinton was out of the race and barack obama was the nominee, one of the most effective barack obama surrogates in the country once the campaign was on was bill clinton. he was a lot of things during the primary in 2008 but he was very good for barack obama up to

and including the dnc speech that he gave in 2012 which was amazing. so i don't know. we're in a weird enough position, we have a former first lady who will be potentially president with the first spouse, the first gentleman, who is a former president himself and nobody knows what role he will have, plus we have the vice presidency redefined, i think, still in reaction to the shock of dick cheney. i think joe biden has been dealing with that shock wave for his entire eight years. so i don't know. i used to think that you needed to pit grizzly adams. i no longer think that. also, grizzly adams is dead. >> rachel maddow, thank you so much for being here. love you, love your show, weeknights 9:00 p.m. that's where we are on msnbc. thank you very much. first of all, rachel maddow is awesome. you already knew that. just judging by your tweets during that great interview with rachel maddow, a lot of you guys don't understand the way that it

would work in massachusetts is completely different. the reason it's really intriguing, this idea of having elizabeth warren be the nominee is that if she were to declare that she's going to be on hillary clinton's ticket, it wouldn't just be that the republican governor of massachusetts could pick her successor for the duration of her term. there would be a special election within 160 days and if she were to declare say in november, and not vacate the seat until january, you are talking about like 78 days with a republican, then a special election and democrats actually think they could win that. so this is going to be really fascinating story if it happens. if you missed the extraordinary interview rachel did with senator warren, it will re-air in full today at 2:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. up next, with hillary clinton clinching the democratic nomination and getting a nod from president obama, what is bernie sanders' exit strategy? ♪

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i have seen her judgment. i have seen her toughness. i have seen her commitment to our values up close. i've seen her determination to give every american a fair shot at opportunity no matter how tough the fight was. that's what's always driven her and it still does. i want those of you who have been with me since the beginning of this incredible journey to know that i am with her. i am fired up. i cannot wait to get out there and campaign for hillary. >> president obama gave that ringing endorsement to presumptive democratic presidential nominee hillary clinton on thursday. he did that shortly after meeting with bernie sanders at the white house at the senator's request. sanders has given no indication if or when he plans to endorse his rival, but obama world is

now fully engaged in the clinton campaign and taking direct aim at donald trump. on thursday, vice president joe biden blasted trump for his attacks on the judge overseeing the trump university civil case. >> i find donald trump's conduct in this regard reprehensible. in addition to this, it is racist. in addition to this. but it's not the racism that frightens me. we have dealt with racists before. it's the potential impact on the court. >> let's bring in john walsh, former dnc chair and 2004 democratic presidential candidate howard dean. thanks to you both for being here. howard, i want to get your unique perspective on what it means to sort of bow out but i want to come to you first on this, joan. this is an historic moment we kind of glossed over a little bit. you wrote a terrific piece this week where you talked about not only the historic piece about

hillary clinton becoming the first woman to be nominated but the agonies the democratic party has gone through in the past when a runner-up has been presented. you talk about '84, a lot about the jesse jackson, shirley chisholm. talk about what those pieces mean. >> we talked a lot early on about is she going to really have the allegiance of the obama coalition, particularly black women, who came out in 2012 in record numbers, surpassed white women, white men, black men, and we didn't know. i felt like she put shirley chisholm early on in her video tuesday night and i felt like it was really a victory for shirley chisholm who never got her due. she won on their strength. we were together in south carolina. that was a sign of where we were going. i just thought it was really important to talk about all the people that were in that room with her. >> you wrote 12 years later, you covered a protest by black women

leaders led by maxine waters of '84 democratic convention because the party hadn't bothered to consider chisholm when they chose the first female vice presidential nominee. one of the things we are hearing from some bernie sanders supporters is his exit strategy should include being considered for the ticket. that doesn't seem to be happening. it doesn't appear that clinton world wants that to happen. when you ran and had a similar kind of movement fervor around your candidacy, number one, how hard was it to finally walk away, how did you formulate that exit strategy and do you feel that hillary clinton should consider bernie sanders for vp? >> for all we know, she is considering bernie sanders. we don't know. i have thought that both bernie and elizabeth would not want the vice presidency. there are not many senators who actually have more power in the senate than they would as vice president but there are some and these are two of them. others include chairman of powerful committees, chairwomen

of powerful committees. these two are very outspoken. you can't be outspoken when you are the vice president. you got to toe the party line set by the president. so i can't imagine why either of them would want to be vice president. i think they would like to be considered for sure because it's obviously a great honor. i'm struggling to imagine either one of them wanting to be vice president of the united states where they can't say anything and stand up for what they believe in because they have to stand up for what the president believes in and that is not always going to be the same thing. >> we do know in the example of dick cheney, and in the case of joe biden, that actually has not been the case with recent vice presidents. joe biden went out there on a limb on things like gay marriage and ended up pushing the president where he was and obviously, dick cheney, a lot of people would argue, was leading in a lot of ways in terms of foreign policy in that administration. hasn't the vice presidency changed enough where it actually is more desirable now? >> absolutely not. i think dick cheney was an

aberration. i think he was there with a guy who i like a lot but it was a very weak president and he was manipulating the intelligence i think that the president was getting. he was really sort of a darth vader and i think joe has a great relationship with the president. joe is joe. joe says what he thinks. but then he gets right in line. so i don't think joe set out to push the president publicly on gay marriage as part of his plan. i think he just said what he thought and that's one of the things that endears people about joe biden. i still think there's a huge value in being the vice president behind the scenes, not trying to compete with the president. that's why there are some people who are actually much more he f f effectives. >> on this question of getting out, how did you formulate your exit strategy at the time and how difficult do you think it's going to be for bernie sanders to exit? give him some advice now.

>> well, everybody's different. i didn't last nearly as long as bernie sanders. i didn't go in as deep but i was pretty mad because i was the front-runner for three or four months which means that all the other folks were ganging up. i was furious. i sort of had a five-second conversion experience. i was ranting and raving at midnight three days before the wisconsin primary where i knew i would come in third and that would be it, and saying what do i owe the democrats, why do i owe these people, their conduct has been repulsive, blah, blah, blah. and very quietly, al listened to me and after about ten minutes, he said you know, this is really not about you, it's about the country. from al gore, who really did get deprived of the presidency that was rightfully his, you can't say much about that. he's the highest moral authority in the united states about having races stolen from you. that just shut me up. i thought about it for a day and dropped out after i lost wisconsin.

everybody's different. then we did want to keep going. bernie has a great opportunity to do this. we set up democracy for america. bernie raised $200 million against our 50 or something like that so he could have a much more powerful version of democracy for america where he's influencing races. we have over 100 people we have elected to legislatures and water commissioners and people that are making a difference on the ground. bernie could certainly do something like that and have it brand with his name because that's what the great brand is now. >> absolutely. joan, to that point of what bernie sanders could do in his sort of second act, let's listen to him at the white house and sort of the tone he set which is different than what we have heard recently in the campaign. >> i spoke briefly to secretary clinton on tuesday night and i congratulated her on her very strong campaign. i look forward to meeting with her in the near future to see how we can work together to defeat donald trump and to

create a goverent which represents all of us and not just the 1%. thank you very much. >> so can you picture this, can you envision the two of them working together to defeat donald trump? >> i absolutely can. those remarks were very different from what we have heard before. he really does, he's moving toward the exit. it might be more slowly than some people expected although it's not for me. i think talking to you last week, i said he will probably go through the d.c. primary. let d.c. vote. i think he's going to do the right thing. i think his heart is in defeating donald trump. he has to be incredibly disappointed. he did come incredibly close, closer than anyone expected, including him. he deserves some time and i also think he needs some time to bring his folks along. an immediate conversion is going to make them feel betrayed and he will have less moral credibility with them. i think it's all working out the way it's supposed to. >> absolutely. indeed. joan walsh will be back later in the show. howard dean, thank you for being here.

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here, there, everywhere. united states postal service priority: you most republicans can't seem to bring themselves to oppose donald trump even when they admit the words coming out of his mouth are textbook racism. but they can desperately and openly hope that sometime between now and election day, trump will suddenly become less bombastic, less bigoted, less trumpy. in other words, republicans are desperately hoping they don't have to feel so bad about supporting him so without further ado, "a.m. joy" presents an ode to the pivot with a little help from our friends. >> all right. ready? turn. turn. turn. >> most of the time for him to pivot -- >> use the word pivot.

>> you hope to see that pivot. >> i do believe that mr. trump does still have time to right the ship, to start acting presidential. >> pivot. >> it's time to quit attacking various people that you have competed with or various minority groups in the country and get on message. >> we have all been waiting for donald trump 2.0. hasn't arrived yet. but there's time between now and november for him to change his positions. >> i think it's time for him to look like a serious candidate for president. which means that you need to think before you speak, need to apologize when you make a mistake, and get on script. >> pocahontas is not happy. she's the worst. you know, pocahontas, i'm doing

such a disservice to pocahontas. >> okay. yeah, it's really stuck now. >> i can't believe that didn't work. >> what did you mean when you said pivot? >> when we come back, our panel tells us what we can expect from donald trump, the general election edition. >> i would like to return this couch. i'm not satisfied with it. ♪ using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the framework... wire... and plants needed to give my shop... a face... no one will forget. see what the power of points can do for your business. learn more at chase.com/ink is it keeps the food out. for me see what the power of points can do for your business. before those little pieces would get in between my dentures

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by the way, i am the least, just so you know, i am the least racist person, the least racist person that you have ever seen. the least. i mean, give me a break. is donald trump a racist. i am the least racist person that you have ever looked at, believe me. >> the million dollar question, can donald trump pivot? joining me, hugh hewitt, msnbc

political analyst, and katherine sirks, co-founder of the women vote trump super pac. thank you both for being here. i want to start with where we ended in that clip, which was a recent donald trump rally in which this is supposed to be the pivoted donald trump. listen one more time to this clip in which he's going after elizabeth warren. >> you know, pocahontas, i'm doing such a disservice to pocahontas, it's so unfair to poca. this elizabeth warren, i call her goofy. >> i don't know if you could hear it. i want to play it one more time so you can hear the audience's reaction when he calls elizabeth warren pocahontas. listen one more time. we boosted the audio so you could hear the audience's reaction to him. >> you know, pocahontas, i'm

doing such a disservice to pocahontas, it's so unfair to poca. but this elizabeth warren, i call her goofy. >> so i don't know if you could see the little boy over donald trump's shoulder who does this with his hands and you could hear the audience doing sort of a whoop, like a fake sort of war cry. that's the reaction donald trump is bringing out of his audiences now, post-pivot. if that is the reaction donald trump is bringing out in his audiences, is this somebody that you are proud to potentially have as president of the united states? >> well, i think what we need to take a look at is how do we define presidential these days. is it presidential to slut shame the victims of your husband's -- >> hold on. i asked you a very specific question. it's a very specific question. yes or no. you looked at donald trump, you heard the way he just described elizabeth warren as pocahontas again. got the crowd whooped up and doing a fake war cry, and one little boy even mocking native americans with what he did with his hands.

are you proud to have that as your president? >> donald trump didn't do it. the crowd did it. >> he is the one whooping that up. are you proud of a president that calls a sitting united states senator pocahontas? are you proud of that? you personally? >> i am proud of a man who is going to lead our country. yes, i am -- >> you are proud of him? okay. all right. >> i said i'm proud of a man who is going to lead our country. >> are you proud of that man, what you just saw? >> i am. >> you are? >> i trust him as a strong leader. >> hugh, my friend, you have been members of the trump world have called for you to be banned from the republican convention in cleveland, in part because you have called for the republican party to actually change the convention rules if necessary in order to unseat donald trump as the nominee. number one, do you think that that's possible to do and do you still believe it should be done? >> well, it's not possible to be done. i reported on it over the last two days and there is no organized effort to change the rules. it's not going to happen. there's not going to be a third

party choice. we are going to face a binary choice between secretary clinton and donald trump. i think this may be the first ti time, it resets donald trump's opportunity every day. although you played the rally from last night's rally in virginia, he gave a very strong speech at the faith and freedom forum rounding out a very good day. hillary clinton went all in with the absolute abortion rights extremism to planned parenthood. she promised to remake the supreme court. donald trump's speech at the faith and freedom for um which e need more of was about religious liberty, right to life, the supreme court, making sure radical jihadists do not enter the country, rebuilding the military. it was a very solid speech. when you ran that very funny clip on the pivot, i kept hearing and translating people want more friday, less monday and he's getting there.

>> so it sounds like you are coming around. >> not coming around. i'm reporting. it's not going to happen. i ran through all the different sources i could over the last two days. it's just not happening. >> i will stay with you for one second. one of the issues in this so-called pivot, you say you wanted more of what you heard from the faith and freedom forum, less of what you saw at that rally. let's take a look at the crowd at that rally. it's a 12,000 seat venue. it was not full. it was 2,000 seats. is there a concern in the world of team trump from your reporting that if he were to be more faith and freedom, less pocahontas rally, that he would actually not be able to fill the seats because people would not feel as entertained? >> no, that was just the cavaliers were playing last night. that's all that was. >> don't remind people of that kind of pain. that's just not right. >> i'm sorry, joy. i'm from cleveland. i'm a cavs fan. we are going to make a little history because no one was ever

come back from 3-1. we will be fine. friday night rallies are not a great thing to do. so i can't read anything into a crowd size. i will say this. that speech at the faith and freedom forum is exactly what mitch mcconnell, speaker ryan want. i interviewed speaker ryan yesterday. he went on at great length about the national security agenda. they want donald trump talking about jihadism and the threat that it poses, they want him talking about hillary clinton's ethics problems, her foreign policy failures. i'm sure that rajiv will be in the speech tomorrow but that's another new scandal from clinton land. this is important because i'm never clinton. i have never been never trump. i'm never clinton. >> katherine, i will come back to you. you may want that, paul ryan may want that, the conservative movement may want that, but what they are actually going to get is donald trump. when donald trump is being donald trump he's calling elizabeth warren pocahontas, repeatedly saying things about

this judge and talking about race and saying things about women that have caused this. a fox news poll shows donald trump's unfavorables with women, 64%. his favorables are 33%. let's go on and look at the quinnipiac poll general election matchup has hillary clinton and donald trump in a dead heat among white women. this is important, because mitt romney won white women by 14 percentage points. george w. bush won by 11, mccain by seven. they are dead even with white women. let's go to one more in the quinnipiac poll. among college educated white voters, clinton and trump, 38% to 46%. that is actually more in line with what republicans are like. if you go back and look at these matchups among women and college educated white voters, donald trump is hurting your party, right? >> oh, no. donald trump is not hurting the party. >> those numbers don't look bad to you? >> let me respond to what you brought up which is the polls and the response to the polls. there has been a concerted effort within the republican

party and the establishment of the republican party to try to tamper down the support for mr. trump. bernie sanders talked about the same thing in the democrat party. >> how is it that the party itself has caused white women to have 64% unfavorables? couldn't it be that calling women out on their looks, denigrating women, speaking about women the way he does, don't you think donald trump caused those unfavorables to happen snnchlg happen? >> i was trying to answer when you interrupted me so let me give it another shot. the polling, we don't believe the polling just on negatives is reflective of voting because we have all talked about the intimidation factor. stacy dash has talked about how she has been intimidated and criticized. diamond and silk have been on the air and talked about how they have been intimidated and called out for their support of donald trump. there has been a concerted effort to try to shame women who are supporting donald trump. i think that if we get into polling that's not talking about

the negatives but actually about voting and issues, then we will see some changing. >> are you saying diamond and silk feeling intimidated to go on tv is causing white women and women not to go to the polls, the private polling booth and vote for donald trump? they are afraid to vote for him because diamond and silk -- >> i'm saying trump supporters are getting a lot of heat. >> why do you think? why? >> because it's the gop establishment. >> not because of what he says? okay. we will come back and talk to you guys more. coming up, d.l. hughley joins me to talk about the race to the white house. what's it like to be in good hands? like finding new ways

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the historic presidency of barack obama has already spawned a number of serious biographies. it was just a matter of time before we got a satirical take. enter "black man, white house" by d.l. hughley. he had plenty to say about this stranger than fiction campaign season. thank you so much for being here. i'm going to ask you about four politicians. i will go through them in order. we will start of course with president barack obama. you wrote a biography of him. as a comedian, barack obama is funny when he's talking, but he's not easy to make fun of. >> the funniest thing about barack obama is how like there are things we want him to do because he's black and he just won't do. like we want him to hey, man, that's enough. and he does it better than like when the dude calls you a liar or some of the stuff, and i

don't think -- i think he's a decent, humane, thoughtful human being. i think we will miss him when he's gone. i think the one thing i can say, the critique i would have, i wish he would have that moment where he would go all right, i get that. but like even writing a book, like everybody always feels he's going to write a book, i don't think he will do that. i think he's above it all. >> don't you get the sense michelle actually behind the scenes is the person doing that? >> that's why in the book she's the narrator. it's actual events but she's the narrator because she's a testament to strength. obviously he's a very strong man but she carries his burden and her burden. if she does something right it affects him. she has the children. i could never imagine it. i think in the book, she's the throughline we kind of use, the touchstone we use to tell the story because the stories are real, real events but narrated

by us. >> in a comedic way. this book really is going to play into that a little bit, there's obama nostalgia kicking up, too. as much as black women in particular will miss barack obama, it's michelle that -- >> right. absolutely. you can say what you want to say. they make these comparisons between barack obama's candidacy and bernie's. bernie doesn't have black women who will ride or die for you. if he's clyde, they're his bonnie. millions of educated, thoughtful, strong people are behind you and i think there's nonobo nobody else. >> let's talk about the person that wants that to happen r, hillary clinton. will she be able to fill that void? >> i don't know if she will be ail to do that but she's as qualified a human being i have ever seen run for president. a lot of things that have

happened to her, have happened because she's a woman. a lot of people, she needs to go to jail. for what? tell me. you read her e-mail but you're not mad about a war that started this whole thing disrupting the economy. be consistent. to me, i know how hard it is to be a black man. i imagine that the link to that, the comparison to that, it's hard to be a woman. well, i don't know. but from a standpoint where i think you should know a tree by its fruits. i think george bush was such a bad president, we got barack obama. i think barack obama is such a good president, maybe we will get hillary clinton. >> there's talk about maybe elizabeth warren running with hillary clinton. how would men react? >> this man would react to two competent well-intentioned principled women with glee. i don't see anybody -- listen,

when you look even -- everything men have, black men in particular have, we have because of women. everything we have. every single thing. that's hard for me to tell you because i'm a bit of a chauvinist. when you look at everything we have, freedoms we enjoy, places we can go, the fights that were fought, who were they fought by? shut up. it's their time in the sun. it's a shame two women -- i mean, i'm not trying to be offensive, but they seem to be braver. who fights, who goes back and forth on twitter, which is such a dumb notion, who does trump stay away from? elizabeth warren. >> you as a comedian know the timing, the way you can deliver a line, elizabeth warren seems to have inherent comedic timing. she's writing those tweets herself. >> i don't know that that's true. but i think they are well-intended, principled,

competent, human beings who are i feel comfortable at the head of this government. i'm not saying that's everybody's opinion. but it's very much mine. >> let's talk about bernie sanders. larry david has brought bernie sanders to the mainstream, made "saturday night live" funny this year in that when he plays bernie sanders. what do you make of bernie? >> he looks like a disheveled professor. he looks like a dude always looking for his papers. i think he's raised some good ideas and no answers to them. i think the shame in america is that two people that everybody is excited about when they want change is two old white dudes. >> bernie sanders as we are sitting here talking today is meeting with president obama. what do you think, if you were writing that into your book, what would that conversation be? >> i think he's a dude that likes being a rock star. everybody, obviously, he was senator for a long time in vermont, now he's somebody who is really galvanizing, but

clearly, they always make the false narrative, the comparison between hillary clinton and him in 2008. she was ahead of barack obama in the popular vote and 120 behind in the electoral college. she had a legitimate argument. if they count michigan and florida, she's president. that's true. she had an argument. you are three million votes behind and almost 1,000 votes, sit down. if you want to talk to me about the future, look like you're strong enough to see it. can you imagine putting that old man in with these republicans? are you crazy? are you crazy? you think "weekend at bernie" was a movie? it would be too much for him. >> we have to get to donald trump. >> donald trump is a racist. he's a racist and anybody who, listen, paul ryan basically said that's textbook racism. so what paul ryan actually said is a racist is better than a liberal. if you say that, it's because you're not affected by racism.

everything we are, liberals built this country. you are what you are because of liberals. and i was on with joe scarborough, i don't agree with everything he says, but he brags about this being the party of lincoln. when you got to keep referencing the dude on the penny you better update your resume. stop it. everything you enjoy right now, everybody they like now, they hated before. they hated martin luther king. now they pretend, they hated muhammad ali. they didn't like him until he was shaking going up the stairs on the olympics. but they didn't start loving him until he was no longer a threat. you don't get to be a little racist, you don't get to be a little pregnant. if i'm in a car, i commit a crime, the dude in the car with me pretends like he don't know, that ain't going to work. if you know that he's a racist,

you are co-racist. simple as that. >> exit question on donald trump. donald trump is in some ways a performer, of course. he was on reality television. >> like a circus clown. >> if you could get in his head, why do you think he's running for president? >> i think he's a vain, egotistical man. all of them have to believe that -- i think that -- barack obama was a bullet in the head of white supremacy. i was reading an article, you talk about the first time uneducated white men, they want somebody to blame. in this country, we pay poor brown people to do our labor. if you are an educated white guy, what do you think? someone took it away from you. i'm angry about that. somebody gets the blame for it. he's that. he speaks to that. >> you mince no words. "oral history of the obama

years, black man, white house." it's actually funny. thank you so much for being here. best of luck with the book. great to see you. coming up in our next hour, did campaign contributions keep florida from joining the trump university lawsuit? plus muhammad ali's last act of resistance and the new york governor who is taking aim at the first amendment. ♪ using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the fruit... veggies... and herbs needed to create a pop-up pick-your-own juice bar in the middle of the city, so now everyone knows... we have some of the freshest juice in town. see what the power of points can do for your business. learn more at chase.com/ink

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who was on the receiving end of some of that trump cash. since 2008, florida residents have been among the dissatisfied customers in satates across the country in complaining that trump institute, a fl-based affiliate of trump university, bilked them out of thousands of dollars. the orlando sentinel reported that the florida attorney general pam bondi was reviewing a new york lawsuit against trump university and considering whether or not florida should join a multi-state investigation into the allegations of fraud against trump's real estate seminars. just a few days after that announcement, a political group behind bondi's 2014 re-election received a check for $25,000 from a trump family foundation. this week, the associated press is reporting that the money arrived after bondi personally solicited trump for that contribution and that after the check came in, bondi's office nixed suing trump, citing insufficient grounds to proceed. joining me, the mayor of miami beach and hillary clinton

surrogate, philip levine, fernand onandi and david corn from mother jones. phil, you also do a radio show in miami. what are people saying about this pam bondi situation? >> well, i can tell you as the mayor of miami beach that campaign finance reform is necessary in our state. it's necessary across the country. to speak specifically about attorney general bondi, i don't know enough about the case, the facts. but i can tell you this. trump university we know is a fraud. we know these people obviously were ripped off. but it's part of who donald trump is. clearly, i'm sure our governor graduated from trump university. we know that a lot of trump's friends graduated from his university. its scams, fraud, this and that. the attorney general in new york has done a great job bringing this to light. i have a lot of confidence in him but as far as our attorney general, i know this is a very cloudy situation and i think we will wait for our state to look

into it and understand better what exactly happened. >> i want to read the statement we received from pam bondi. this is her response to the story. she says yesterday's story was false and misleading including statements that my office quote publicly announced that i was deliberating whether to join a lawsuit or that i nixed suing trump. my office has made public every document on this issue which shows no one in my office ever opened an investigation on trump university, nor was there a basis for doing so. any news story that suggests otherwise is completely false. however, there is an orlando sentinel story that our wonderful producers unearthed from september of 2013 and it says new york's trump u suit draws florida officials attention. it says florida attorney general pam bondi's office is renewing the new york lawsuits allegations to determine whether florida should join the multi-state case. a spokesperson said on wednesday. how much of a problem is this potentially for bondi? >> this isn't a problem. this is a nightmare. because it basically gets to all of the problems around donald

trump and her support of the donald trump campaign. you now have ethics complaints. you have her top staffers having departed in response to this message. the reason this is really for a lot of people that are anti-trump, they see this as having in essence cracked the code because trump university is quickly becoming in this 2016 campaign what bain capital was for mitt romney. this reason this is even a bigger problem is it goes into the most important battleground state in the country, florida. it taints pam bondi. it taints rick scott, who was pam bondi's choice to be on the cabinet. it also goes into these allegations not just of pay for play, but pay to look the other way. this isn't the first time these types of allegations have been made against attorney general pam bondi. as you point out, that article from 2013, what happens, surprise, surprise, a couple months after that, donald trump gives a contribution to pam bondi which turns out to be an

illegal contribution because it comes from his foundation. it's all kinds of bad for pam bondi and donald trump. >> david, you say mitt romney, i say david corn because you guys at mother jones took what was a florida story, mitt romney speaking at a private fund-raiser in florida that became the whole 47% meme. is this the kind of story that winds up hurting donald trump or does it really wind up mostly taking pam bondi potentially off the table as a potential vice presidential pick and that's as far as it goes? >> well, i certainly think it takes her off the list. i don't know who wants to be on that list these days. but if she did, she's gone. i think what was just said is right. this, you know, trump university really shows the whole trump methodology of selling your name, making promises you can't keep, collecting money and moving on and leaving other people behind in the wake of the scam to pick up the pieces and clean up. so the fact that now in florida, it has its own little version or

big version of the trump university narrative. it will make it very hard for trump i think to win the state. it will keep reminding people of trump university which he doesn't want to have happen and i don't know how he can beat hillary clinton if he doesn't win florida. so i think politically it's terrible but just in terms of again, showing people that trump m.o., it's really by the numbers here. this is how he does things and you don't have to take it from me. take it from donald trump. he buys politicians when he needs to and he brags that they kiss his ass. well, this is a pretty good example of that. >> kathryn, i will give you a chance to respond to all of that. you did have donald trump boasting about the fact he can give politicians money and they would do his bidding. you have not only florida but also texas attorney generals at least allege to have pulled back on investigating trump university when new york and other states were going forward. you are a trump surrogate and supporter.

is this a problem potentially for trump's base, which are, let's face it, a lot of working class people who were essentially the targets of trump university? >> i don't think it's a problem for the base at this point and the reason for that is, we don't know exactly what's gone on and as one of the other panelists pointed out, this may be more of a problem for bondi, if she's solicited donations or if she let it influence her. i don't know what was done. there's no evidence, no definite evidence of a quid pro quo so i don't know what happened here. what of course makes me think of, though, is why is trump university when we talk about not bringing up the past, why is trump university so important. i'm very concerned about what hillary clinton has done and the foundation has done and her husband has done with that university situation, because it sounds as though she may have

actually used her position as secretary of state to peddle influence. that concerns me more. >> do you realize you just said you don't understand why we're bringing up the past, then you immediately brought up the past against hillary clinton? it's very good you pivot immediately to hillary as a surrogate but i'm asking about the base of trump voters. they are working class white americans who are the very people trump university went after. don't you think that's relevant? if somebody wants to be president made money by potentially scamming folks? >> let me clarify what i'm saying. >> answer my question about trump university. don't you think it might be problematic for some people? >> i'm going to answer what i'm going to answer which is that you asked me about bringing up the past. >> no, i didn't. you brought up the past. i didn't ask you about that. >> there have been criticisms about donald trump about bringing up hillary's past. then they bring up donald trump's past. >> you don't think this is relevant? you don't think that whether or not trump university potentially defrauded people, you think that's not relevant? >> i'm much more concerned about -- >> you think it's not relevant. okay. i know you are pivoting.

you are doing your thing as a surrogate. david, let me go to you on this. kathryn will clearly answer any question about trump with an answer about hillary. does that indicate that perhaps -- >> i answered your question about trump. >> you think it's not a problem. good. now you answered it. david, do you think when looking at a candidate whose appeal is in large part to white working class americans, does this present a problem or is this something that to kathryn's point is not relevant because it's too far in the past? >> i think a narrative is coming out of trump university but also these other stories coming out that he doesn't pay his bills, that this is a guy who is willing to screw business partners or customers, people like come to trump university, to put money in his already deep pockets. and you know, we had "usa today" this week come up with hundreds of cases of trump not paying contractors, working class people. we are talking about painters and drywall people. we at mother jones did a story

this week about an 82-year-old latvian immigrant in miami who put in chandeliers in mar a lago and trump wouldn't pay his bill and they had to go to court. that's all part of this. he's willing to make a quick buck any which way he can and if it hurts a bank, he's happy. if it hurts contractors, he doesn't care. if he's defrauding people, it's alleged, if he's defrauding students at trump university, he says no big deal and he moves on to another scheme. that's the big picture that's going to hurt him with some voters. >> phil, kathryn is laughing about that but you're in miami beach, in miami. the doral golf resort that he owns is there. some of these stories do touch on miami contractors and small businesses. is this something you are hearing there on the ground in south florida? >> absolutely. i got to tell you something. i'm an entrepreneur and business person. i got to tell you something. i don't want to defend donald trump but i got to say one thing. the course was learn donald trump's secrets to success.

donald trump did deliver those secrets. course 101, fraud. course 102, scams. course 103, misrepresentation. the biggest course donald trump is known for, inheritance. we know donald trump, a, is not a billionaire. number two, he inherited the money from his daddy. donald trump has a history, a graveyard of bad business deals, bad business partners. thank god he has his father's money. but the man we know is a fraud. we have heard it for years and now the american public is starting to learn about it. trump university is the perfect university for him. i understand bernie madoff may be a visiting professor. it would be very very apropo. >> fernand, does this present a problem because i am really interested in whether or not a story like this actually resonates only with people who are like phil, on the hillary clinton side of the ledger, or whether or not there's something actually there when you are talking about small business people, talking about the painter, the waiter, the little guy, the person in south florida that may have actually been victimized by this.

is there potential opportunity for democrats and have moved over into the white voter base of donald trump? >> no question. joy, this is deadly for trump. because he spent the last year and a half developing this narrative about how he's going to make america great again. just trust him. just listen to him. he's going to negotiate his way out of problems. just like he tried to suggest he was going to teach the secret to success for the trump university students, he's going to do that for the american people. but this trump university fraud which is what's clearly becoming and what's clearly destroying his campaign narrative, undermines that argument. don't take my word for it. take florida senator marco rubio, who said he was a con artist. >> yeah. he did. then he said we be honored to help him become president of the united states. thank you all. david corn will be back later in the show. if muhammad ali were still with us, would his next fight have been against the governor of new york? (avo) after 50 years of designing cars

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i will always think of muhammad as a truly free man of faith. being free, he realized that life still was open to choices. it is the choices that muhammad ali made that have brought us all here today in honor and love. >> president bill clinton eulogized muhammad ali yesterday at a memorial service in the boxing legend's hometown of louisville, kentucky. it was the second of a two-day funeral service that ali planned for himself before his death. friday's memorial followed a muslim prayer service on thursday that was open to the public and adhered to the traditions of the faith that was the foundation of ali's

principled defiance in the face of injustice. even as we honor ali for the courage to stand by unpopular beliefs, some states are targeting one of the controversial causes he championed throughout much of his life. this week, governor andrew cuomo announced an executive order for the state of new york to stop doing business with any company or group involved with the palestinian boycott movement against israel known as bds. cuomo describes the boycott movement as an economic attack on israel. but the irony that ali, who cuomo praised after his death last week, would have been among those blacklisted under his executive order wasn't lost on one of my guests today. writing this week about ali's long-time support for the palestinian liberation movement, he has these words for cuomo. get the champ's name out of your mouth and tell the disturbing truth. if muhammad ali was in his prime today, he would be your target. someone denied the right to make a living in the state of new

york. david is with me from washington and joining me at the table is linda sarsor. dave, before we get to this topic, you were at the funeral, the muhammad ali funeral. please take a couple minutes to tell us what that was like and give us sort of what moved you most from that event. >> i mean, what moved me most was that it was a funeral for the people. ali's wife said in her eulogy that it's a great quote, she said muhammad ali attracted the rich and powerful but he was most comfortable with the poor and this is something that you felt in the streets of louisville. i was among the 100,000 people who lined the streets. people who came from all the way from scotland, but most of the people were from louisville. it was the black community of louisville flowing flowers on his car as it rode by. we all chanted ali, ali. to actually have that experience, to shout his name with so many others as his car went by, it's something i will

absolutely never forget. to be in louisville, a place that once disavowed muhammad ali, to see the city embrace him so fully, it speaks to the remarkableness of this human being. >> linda, we were all not around during this time period when ali was really not only fighting against the vietnam war but really taking a lot of heat from people, some who refused to call him muhammad ali, who insisted on continuing to call him cassius clay, would not recognize this conversion that he had, and really demonized him for becoming a muslim. for young muslims, does muhammad ali still resonate in that way as a hero in that vein? >> absolutely. i'm just emotional hearing david talk about the funeral. muhammad ali was unapologetically muslim. he is giving us the inspiration, the courage to be unapologetically muslim in 2016, when islam is the most vilified religion in the world. >> i want to play a little of andrew cuomo. he gave this executive order which was the subject of dave

zirin's terrific piece in the nation. i highly recommend it. this is andrew cuomo explaining his executive order and then i want to come to you on this. >> we are against the bds movement and it's very simple. if you boycott against israel, new york will boycott you. if you divert revenues from israel, new york will divert revenues from you. if you sanction israel, new york will sanction you. period. >> i want to point out that we did reach out to governor cuomo's office to try to get a spokesman on today to explain and defend this executive order. they were not available. we also reached out to several jewish organizations to get some on the other side of this issue but today is a jewish holiday. it was very difficult to get someone. dave, you write in the nation that it's ironic for particularly a democratic governor to be issuing this kind of executive order that really in your view clamps down on

speech when you have him also praising muhammad ali. just explain that. >> first of all, let me say i'm jewish so i will represent my jewish community, saying that i absolutely oppose this legislation. i also oppose the conflation of being jewish with this kind of horrific, horrific legislation as if it's somehow in solidarity with my people. i utterly reject that. second of all, the idea about muhammad ali was that he was a teller of unpopular truths. we are all celebrating that, but we are celebrating it in the abstract. one of his unpopular truths or one of his truths, i should say, because it's in no way everybody's truth, is that he was against colonialism. very strongly. he was for tenahe anti-colonial movements in sub-saharan africa, he was against the u.s. going into vietnam and was against the state of israel creating thousands and thousands of refugees. he visited a refugee camp in southern lebanon and the

descriptions of this camp are horrifying. disease, poverty, desperation, children with flies landing on their bodies, and he saw this and made a commitment at that point that he would fight for a palestinian homeland. that was his truth. people can oppose that truth. what i can't stand is the hypocrisy of cuomo praising muhammad ali the very week he stands at the harvard club and you couldn't have a greater contrast than the man of the people and cuomo, in the harvard club, making this statement saying if you are against what it is is the state of israel, we will put you on a list. it is a frightening step. i absolutely stand with the new york aclu. people should read their position on this. they go through an autopsy of the bill. it is frightening stuff and profoundly to my view unconstitutional. >> i want to read a little bit of an editorial that andrew cuomo wrote in the "washington post." he wrote there is a clear well-established legal distinction between political speech, whom you vote for, whom

you stand with in a public rally and a blatant discriminatory conduct such as bds activities. if a business owner refuses to serve or hire someone based on race, religion or ethnicity it is illegal and sanctionable. if that same person attends a political rally decrying one group of people, african-americans, jew, lgbt community, it's constitutionally protected speech. he's essentially arguing that it's not a violation of free speech to sanction people who join bds. do you believe that bds activities are akin to not serving someone in your restaurant or not letting them stay at a hotel? >> you know this, joy, from our history. boycotts have always been a tactic to support movements for freedom and justice. they have been inspired by the civil rights movement, the montgomery bus boycott, to the american movement against south african apartheid. this is not something, bds is not a new thing. it has historically proven to be helpful toward the movement for justice but the hypocrisy, the irony of the situation is that

earlier this year, governor cuomo stood up and said non-essential travel to north carolina is banned based on their anti-lgbt laws. i agree. why is it -- why are you a proponent of boycotts, right, but when it comes to palestinian rights, you're like i can't do that. that's hypocrisy. for me, honestly, for all americans, you could be on any side of the israel-palestine. whatever side you want to be o that's on you. as americans we should be on the side of the constitution. i should not be, my freedom of speech should not be infringed upon. i have palestinian family members who live in the west bank and gaza. for someone to tell me i am to be blacklisted, this is mccarthy-era type attacks on freedom of speech and it is deplorable. especially in the state of new york. if it's happening in new york, god knows what's going to happen in other states. >> we know one of the things that is happening is chuck schumer, senior senator from new york, has actually floated a plan to federalize what's happening in new york and to

actually take this anti-bds governmental sanction federal. what do you make of that? >> it's terrifying. i'm not surprised that chuck schumer, when he was asked for his thoughts on muhammad ali, just said all i remember is my basketball coach told me to float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. it was like please. chuck schumer is many things but historically ignorant is not one of them. he knows exactly what ali stood for. he knows a lot more than saying funny rhymes. the thing about chuck schumer, if he wants to federalize cuomo's law, it means federalizing a part of this, this is the most frightening part people aren't talking about, if someone puts you on this list, the burden of proof is on to to say you have an allegiance to israel and would not participate in any bds activities. that's kind of terrifying, if you think about it. it's a total violation of free speech. think about if muhammad ali was alive today, what that would mean. if he tried to do a fight in new york and andrew cuomo said no, you're on my blacklist because you support palestine, what that

could mean is he can withhold police for that particular fight, any sort of state function that would allow for the security and passage of people to go in and out of that fight, and it's particularly historically ironic because when muhammad ali was blacklisted in 1967 for opposing the draft, the first state to blacklist him was the state of new york. >> wow. one last question to you on this. alan dershowitz wrote a piece supporting new york governor cuo cuomo's actions. if properly interpreted and enforced, cuomo's executive order would not undermine freedom of speech in much the same way that businesses today are not allowed to refuse to serve someone because of their ethnicity, sexual orientation or religion. so too would base engaged in bds activities face repercussions. how would that impact black lives matter? i know those movements are very much aligned.

do you worry that an order like this could infringe on that, on black lives matter activities in new york? >> first and foremost, andrew cuomo, chuck schumer are basically out of touch with the democratic party and majority of the american people who are becoming more publicly in support of palestinian rights and against israeli human rights abuses. it will impact the black lives matter movement. there is a huge growing solidarity between black communities and palestine and palestinian rights activists, doing boycott against g-4s, a large privatized prison industry that not only detains people in israel but also is part of the industrial complex in the u.s. and looking at joint opportunities for us to do boycotts together. basically you are blacklisting the contemporary civil rights movement of the united states and what i say to andrew cuomo is years from now, he will look back and know he was on the wrong side of history. we are on the right side of history. the majority of young people, young people of color support the plight of the palestinian

people. if andrew cuomo thinks he has any political aspirations, especially national ones, he need to get with the program. the program is to be with the palestinian people and to speak truth and not just talk about muhammad ali but we all are trying to be muhammad ali. >> yeah. i want to thank you guys for being here and note you are a supporter of bernie sanders who brought this issue to the fore. i don't think there's been a candidate since jesse jackson so forthright on the issues. this will resurface when the platform committee meets because he has james ogby and cornel west on his side on this issue. i want to put an open invitation out to governor cuomo. we would love to have you come on and talk about this. it's an issue we will continue to cover. up next, what does donald trump's candidacy mean for vulnerable senators running for re-election? mary buys a little lamb. one of millions of orders on this company's servers. accessible by thousands of suppliers and employees globally.

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i cannot support him because of what he said about the judge. that was too racist. >> that was the final straw for you? >> it was a big straw for me. >> do you hope other members of your party are doing what you're doing now? >> i do. i think we should send a strong message that racism and bigotry will not be tolerated in the party of lincoln. >> critics have said this is a political move because you are in a tough re-election fight. what do you say? >> i'm just representing the state of illinois which does not agree with those sentiments. >> that was republican illinois senator mark kirk becoming the first trump endorser to un-endorse him based on allegations of racism against judge curiel, the judge who is presiding over the trump university case. all right. why is that important? it's important because mark kirk is in trouble. as are some vulnerable republican senators based on their support for donald trump, potentially, as we go into november. here's why. republicans right now enjoy a 54 seat advantage in the united states senate. there are 45 democrats and of course, one bernie sanders.

in order for democrats to take back the senate, they need to net five. they need to net five seats. but democrats have a very important advantage going into november. this happens to be the best of the three senate cycles. n the senate is a six-year term so every two years, one-third of the senate turns over. this time it happens to be republicans in the hot seat. let me go back to my map. republicans are defending out of these 34 seats up for re-election, republicans got to defend 24 of them. democrats only have to defend ten. of the ten most vulnerable senators, most of them happen to be in the gop, starting with the guy you just heard from. mark kirk in illinois considered the single most vulnerable senator right now up for re-election. he's already down to his democratic challenger 42%. 46% for mark kirk. this is a state democrats won overwhelmingly, barack obama won in '08 and won it big in 2012.

you move over to ron johnson in the state of wisconsin. in a rematch with russ feingold, republicans took over the united states senate in 2010 based on all these big wins in the census year of 2010 but all the senators in purple states, barack obama won, all up for re-election. feingold pulling ten points ahead of johnson in wisconsin. then pennsylvania. this is the state republicans always think they can win but never do. you have pat toomey, former club for growth president, in a statistical dead heat with katie mcginty in a state democrats are expected to carry once again in november. that could take out pat toomey. then we go over to new hampshire. this is going to be one of the most closely contested races. another state won by barack obama in 2012. that's a dead heat between kelly ayotte, who expressed lots of reservations of donald trump and her challenger. this is a race democrats really

can pick up. then we go over to the state of ohio. this is the state that no republican has become president without winning. look at rob portman. statistical dead heat with a very popular democrat, ted strickland. if they lose ohio it's very hard to see republicans retaining the united states senate. then we go to our wild card, arizona. john mccain has expressed a lot of reservations about donald trump. why? because his state has a heavy hispanic population. look at that race. almost a dead heat, not that close, arizona is a state republicans normally carry but ann kirkpatrick is within shouting distance of john mccain. listen to him in his on words talk about how nervous he is. >> donald trump at the top of the ticket here in arizona, with over 30% of the vote [ inaudible ] no doubt this may be the race of my life. ss. but i really love it. i'm on the move all day long...

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will supporting donald trump sink the hopes of purple state republicans? back with me is joan walsh, radio host hugh hewit and pollster fernand amandi. charlie sykes led a talk radio revolt against trump in the state of wisconsin. does supporting donald trump as ron johnson did, you have a head line ron johnson on donald trump, i fully intend to support our nominee, does that hurt ron johnson? >> no, i don't think so. he's basically independent of national political trends because wisconsin is the warmed over battleground of american politics. four state-wide races in five or six years, something like that. every voter is id'ed, every single person's intentions is known. it's a blocking and tackling operation there. i don't think the national race will impact that at all. different in ohio, where it will help portman but not in wisconsin. >> every time we talk about a ground game and whether races

can be won or lost, i think about whales. ah, look. whale. that means we are talking about pennsylvania. i'm going to come to you on this, joan. pat toomey is an interesting sort of case. he was club for growth, he wins that improbable race because of the wave election in 2010 but republicans really do say every cycle they will win pennsylvania and they don't. pat toomey is saying trump comments on the judge deeply offensive but he will still support him. does that hurt him? >> of course it does. mcginty has been up in the polls, the democrats will put a lot of money here that like wisconsin, the coordinate campaign is really focused on yes, hillary clinton, but also they want to nationalize some of these races. i think it will really hurt toomey. i disagree with hugh. i think wisconsin is a dark blue state in presidential election years. ron johnson's in a lot of trouble. >> to kelly ayotte in new

hampshire. she has said she will vote for trump despite his offensive remarks about the federal judge. she is in a really tough race. she's right now in a statistical dead heat. is her smart strategy to walk away from donald trump or stick with him and hope you get high republican turnout even though that's been a democratic state in presidential years? >> well, as long as donald trump continues his donald troll act, i think you will see kelly ayotte have to succumb to the polls and the political reality of the numbers as you saw mark kirk do in indiana, as i think you will see john mccain do in the state of arizona. but yeah, kelly ayotte by hitching her train to the trump train in the northeast, a state that while has gone back and forth in recent cycles past, that's going to be a problem for her. i think she will drop that one, too. >> you mentioned john mccain. listen to this is john mccain on may 8th on "state of the union" talking about trump.

take a listen. >> why are you ready to support trump? >> i have said all along that i would support the nominee of the party. i believe that a hillary clinton presidency will cause the economy to continue to stumble along and put us in the economic malaise that basically we've had for eight years. >> hugh, this has got to be very difficult for john mccain, who has been one of the people who has made cultivating hispanic voters a hallmark of what he does in politics. he now has to be on this line. this is what he has to say. but is he vulnerable to a surge in potential hispanic voting against donald trump that washes him out, too? >> well, congresswoman kirkpatrick is not good enough to beat an american legend and hero, especially when you have the governor on the cover of national review, number two job growth in america. it's not going to work. they always try to put arizona into may. arizona is to the democrats as pennsylvania is to the republicans. >> are you going to make us make our whale come out again? >> arizona is the democratic

white whale. >> there it is. >> she is not going to beat john mccain. >> when you put a radio host on your show you risk them cueing your special effects. let's go and talk about ohio. rob portman, this is a pivotal state. republicans actually need this state. this is one of the states, this is always the state. this is what rob portman says. he still would support donald trump's campaign despite the candidate's stance on economic issues, based on his stance on economic issues, promise to create more jobs. is jobs the only place he can go? he can't wrap his arms around donald trump. >> no, he can't. he's somebody you can see if trump makes a few more outrageous, obnoxious comments who will step away partly out of decency and partly out of political necessity. that time could come for a lot of these people we are talking about in the summer and early fall. >> fernand, when i think florida, i think our friend marco rubio who has been in

every kind of agony you can imagine during this entire campaign season. mitch mcconnell really wants him to run. there's a real fear among washington republicans about that seat. let's take a listen to marco rubio once again saying he will not run for his seat. take a listen. >> you're not going to rethink this and file in april or may for this seat? >> no, no. i'm not running for re-election to the senate. as i said, i'm going to finish my term here and then i'll be a private citizen. >> give us the benefit of your reporting on this. are republicans going to be able to convince rubio to come back, run for re-election and try to save that seat for the gop? >> i know for a fact they are desperately trying both in public and in private, but here again, the tell-tale beating heart of the trump university problem, because in that, you saw donald trump basically go overboard with the judge curiel comments. that directly impacts hispanic voters in a state like florida. i think if donald trump were not at the top of the ticket, marco rubio would absolutely be running for re-election.

but he can't risk destroying permanently his political future by running again and perhaps even losing here in florida. so i don't think that that's going to happen. i want to make one other quick point because i love your white whale talk. i'm hearing, believe it or not, there's always one of these head fake states where one side or the other says they will play and i think there may be an interesting one this cycle. it's the state of utah, the most republican state in the country. i'm hearing that the democrats, because of the comments by mitt romney and others and also a very mormon state, looking at a guy like donald trump saying that might be a state that if we play in, we might be able to steal. i don't have to tell you, if utah's at risk, it may be all 50 states at risk for the republicans. >> in addition to all the other things you do, radio host and pollster, you know as well as anybody that the single biggest indication of anti-trump sentiment, mormonism. mormons were the most anti-trump of any group. >> that's exactly right. >> you, too, have triggered the whale. can we get one more time?

when you invite two radio hosts on your show, this is the kind of thing that happens. joan and hugh will be back later in the show. thank you very much, fernand. still ahead, who's the big winner of the week? the whale. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪ everything your family touches sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. because no one kills germs better than clorox.

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>> i'm going to tell you a story. the trump family are getting ready to do a big press conference so i called donald and left him a message and said hey congratulations, you're our presumptive nominee. he called me right back. i could hear his family saying you got to get out on stage and the whole world was waiting for

him on live tv. you know what he asked me about? pam, how is your mom? i love your mom. how's your mom. that's the donald trump i know. >> that was florida attorney general pam bondi introducing donald trump at a rally in tampa, florida. so who won the week? >> i hate being conventional, joy, but there's no choice but hillary clinton. she made history. she got the nomination, first woman to do this for a major party. she seems to find her footing in how she's speaking and taking on donald trump and he, of course, helped by losing the week when the question is how much of a racist are you? that's never good for a candidate. >> you said that like the barbie-hillary episode on "saturday night live". hillary won the week. let's go to hugh hewitt who would say that in the same tone

of voice. >> i'm tempted to change in mid-stream because i detected a note of appreciation. i know he authored the recovery act and a lot of liberals like him for that. i'll stick with the mainstream media. they got the race they wanted, clinton-trump. it will be on every screen every night like this show. it's a gift that keeps on giving. >> i think you're right. each has a unique individual relationship with the media. hillary is quite negative and donald trump started out very positive and co-dependent a lot of people say has turned negative too. be a very interesting test for the media. let's go to joan walsh. >> hillary. i'm excited. hillary won the week, guys. finally, she won. we can't give it to anybody else. we can't take it away from her. she won the week. she was so maligned as a

candidate. we were told she was going to blow another race that bernie sanders was the new barack obama. none of that was true. she ran a great campaign. a if you bumps along the road but she pulled it off and our first female nominee. >> delete your account was the tweet of the week. anthony weiner got in one that was good. she's pretty good on social media. the correct answer to who won the week now that you guys have given the wrong answers is barack obama. president barack obama. i think he showed that he's still a player and that he really was the magic endorsement. elizabeth warren is always a contender. barack obama is back. you'll see obama world really lean in on this hillary clinton campaign. he personally wants to take down donald trump. he will relish it and enjoy it. i want to play barack obama doing his late night tour. he was on falsoe fallon.

this is barack obama saying thank you. >> thank you congress spending eight years wishing you can replace me with a republican. or to put it another way, how do you like me now? all right. really quick let's go through everybody else. how effective will obama be? >> fantastic. his numbers have gone up. he's in 52% range of approval rating and he can thank donald trump for that. compared to donald trump, everybody likes barack obama now. >> hugh hewitt which former president will be on the stump for hillary, obama or clinton? >> you notice she did not reference bill clinton once in her acceptance speech on tuesday night when she won the california primary. never mentioned the former president once. i think president obama will be an effective surrogate for donald trump because he brings up the anger about the supreme court, regulatory state, deficit, losing the war in iraq,

so put him out there. i'm all for that. >> obama phobia will not die any time soon. >> joan walsh do you think obama will be a more used surrogate that bill clinton? >> more useful one. i don't know who will be out there more. he still has a job to do. he'll be an excellent surrogate. he will drive that base. that base is coming out for donald trump anyway. he'll do a lot to consolidate the obama coalition. >> i want to thank our terrific panel. hugh hewitt who i will see on "meet the press" on sunday. take more selfies and drive our fans crazy. always great to see you. that's our show for today. thank you for watching a.m. joy. coming up next, alex witt talks to a gop insider about the republican retreat hosted by mitt romney this weekend. do they have a plan, a devious plan to dump trump? more news at the top of the hour.

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good day to all of you. i'm alex witt. breaking news at this hour, new information from police on the shocking murder of a popular reality show contestant shot dead as she signs autographs. in politics, on the attack, donald trump punches back hard today at mitt romney for what the former gop presidential nominee just said about him. that's the ticket, could hillary clinton and elizabeth warren unite two factions of the democratic party in one bold move? politics and prose one of the best selling authors of all time gives us a must read for the beach season and how politics could be involved. any minute now donald trump is set to take the stage at a rally in tampa, florida. the first of two campaign stops there as we look at florida governor rick scott who is doing an introduction. second rally will have him in moon