nightclub, 20 people dead and 42 taken to the hospital. aerial shots of the pulse nightclub. police did run down the events of the shooting and how it happened and they said there was an officer who was uniformed already there inside the nightclub who responded to the initial shots fired, and they even gauged along with two other officers with the shooter, and somehow the shooter exited the club and ran out of the club and then back inside and that develop developed into a hostage situation, and that lasted an hour or even more, and then hostage negotiators were called in and crisis negotiators and after being contacted by many of the people still stuck inside according to police, about 15 people maybe in the bathroom, police say they decided to go ahead and use explosive devices to breakthrough a wall, as you can see, at one point, you can see the vantage point of a window that had been blasted in,

and they were able to breakthrough the wall using the explosive devices and engage with another gun battle with nine officers with that shooter, and that resulted in the shooter being shot and killed. one officer, police say, was hurt, he was shot but saved by his helmet, and out of the nine officers involved in the gun battle. around 30 people were saved during that rescue. now, again, as they are dealing with that confirmation from police that approximately 20 people are dead so far with 42 people taken to the hospital. when asked if they consider this an act of terrorism, police say certainly this is being investigated as an act of terrorism and they are looking into whether it is domestic or international, and they say there is no reason to believe there is in other threat in the orlando area or elsewhere. i want to bring in jim cavanaugh who has been with us throughout

the overnight. when you hear this news conference and it's astounding when police say there are a range of 20 people dead, and it just so happened a officer was there. what strikes you? >> the assault rifle in a crowded nightclub. that's why you have 42 people wounded and 20 people approximately may be killed. when you have an assault rival, the velocities coming out of the rivals, you know, they are really, really deadly. so this -- this uniformed orlando pd officer, he likely has his duty weapon, hand gun and he is engaging a man with a rival, and two other officers, we don't know if they were able to get their patrol rifles and get him in there and they backed him up into a hostage situation and then got s.w.a.t. in there, and they used an explosive entry

and then the shots that were reported right after the explosion were the s.w.a.t. team and the suspect engaging, and he was killed. they are pretty definitive, they believe there is terror as a motive. that means a political motive. so that's what they seem to be saying, although it's not quite clear how they are determining that. they are saying there are some indications, but -- that terrorism discussion is a wide one and it could mean a lot of things. >> when you have that discussion, you also consider that this pulse nightclub bills itself as a gay nightclub and the reporting from sarah dallof said it welcomes people of all walks of life in the club and when specifically asked by a reporter whether that could be the consideration, the officers couldn't comment on that. when you hear these law

enforcement talk about the gunman that he was well prepared and organized and not from the area and still trying to positively identify this shooter, it is also interesting how they considered in going about in actually entering, when using explosive devices, they were contacted by over a dozen people before they said this is the time. what happens on a tactical sense, jim, before they realize this is a time for them to enter given a hostage situation? >> the key always is for the on scene tactical commander to read the signs of escalation and de-escalation. that's a critical talent and s.w.a.t. commanders have to hone that talent all the time. it's really difficult. through the intelligence they get from their long-rifle teams, and the robots, from negotiators to the phone and from witnesses calling them, they have to be able to read escalation and de-escalation, and they have to read, is it time to move or not

to move, and what the chief said was, they were negotiating but they believe they had to move because there was 15 or more people in another bathroom nearby and they wanted to insert themselves in there so the assailant couldn't get to those people even though the assailant still has hostages so they had to make a tactical decision it could escalate and get worse real fast and so they made their explosive entry and killed him. and why they say he was prepared, probably how he is outfitted, a rifle and handgun and a lot of ammunition and there are some reports of a vest, and sometimes that's a carrier, and we call it a tactical vest and you can load magazines and a handgun and stuff like that, and sometimes people mistake those for suicide vests or bullet vests, and they

could be any of those, and if a person shows up in a bullet proof vest or a suicide vest and he has that as part of his equipment and a rifle and handgun and he is shooting, that's a lot of preparation and planning and they are adding that all into the investigation. >> jim, what does it tell you when the police officers describe the shooter as engaging initially in a gun battle with that uniformed officer who is already inside the club and another two who joined in, somehow went outside the club and then ran back inside? >> well, you know, they have a plan, but, you know, as eisenhower said, plans are great until you meet the enemy, and that's like a killer, too, plans are great until he meets a policeman. the police shooting back at him and he runs back and he may have

hoped to get no opposition. why would he go out the door? maybe to see what it was and come back in. he had more gun power than the one officer who was working an extra duty job. is he suicidal? an act like this is pretty depraved, so he may not have planned to get out of it alive either. >> i want to call attention to the live images from the helicopter, you can see the patio area, table and chairs and items on the table as it was left when the shooting happened, about 2:00 local time, and the first report of the shooting, an officer there inside and engaging with this gunman and that developed into a hostage situation and that officer saw it fit for them to come in. just a few moments ago the

police chief was speaking about what happened. >> our officer engaged in a gun battle with that suspect and the suspect at some point went back inside the club where more shots were fired and this did turn into a hostage situation and from there, obviously, multiple officers from various agencies responded and s.w.a.t. team responded and at approximately 0500 hours this morning the decision was made to rescue hostages that were in there. our s.w.a.t. officers exchanged gunfire with the suspect and the suspect is dead. he appeared to be carrying a rifle, an assault-type rifle and a handgun and had some type of device on him. >> as a result, as we update our viewers here, police say approximately 20 people are dead after this shooting at the orlando nightclub. 42 people taken to three area hospitals and one of them as

close as three blocks away. jim, the police also said because of the entry that they were able to use an exclosive device to blow the wall and get in, and you say there was over 300 people in this club, and it had multiple rooms and not just one big open area, and when you hear that number, two dozen dead, just astounding. >> yeah, it's so sad and it's an awful crime to have to watch. it relates to a person bent on mass murder getting even side a club with a rifle, an assault rifle, probably s. what he is going to have. we don't know that for sure, and he is in there with a semiautomatic rival. even when he is even gauged with a uniformed pd officer.

orlando pd, the first officer there who was working there and the other two who came, they backed him up, and they backed him up into a place where there was hostages and then they could get s.w.a.t. in there, and they probably could not get in there, the patrol officers the way they were armed, and you couldn't rush into the door because he would shoot you, and they held him static for a while and that's key because the negotiators talked to him, and we don't know, was he killing people during the negotiations or was it static for a while. and the commander reads the time and the de-escalation signals, and the commanders did that, and then they made the move, and like the chief said, saved 30 people, and unfortunately couldn't save them all and it's going to be a heart-breaking day in orlando today. >> it certainly is as people wake up to hear this news,

again, this shooting even side an orlando nightclub with police confirming there are approximately 20 people dead, and in their words, many lives lost with many people dead inside. let's talk about what could be happening right now, jim. we know the chief of police and fbi are all there still, and as i understand it, they are looking for other devices, other explosive devices in there, even though they say there's no reason to believe this may happen anywhere else or there's a threat in any other parts of orlando or anywhere else, but they are making sure there are no other devices in the nightclub. >> and the chief police did say they suspected he had a device on him, and sometimes these guys will strap a pipe bomb on themselves or have something they can throw like a hand grenade and the chief said there was a suspected device involved

and they have not confirmed it was an explosive device yet. we have to listen to what the chief said, what the fbi said about domestic terrorism issues, and they are not ruling out internationally inspired terrorism or connected issues. >> it was interesting, jim, and let me ask you about this since you bring it up. there was one officer that came out and said, yes, they called it in their words a domestic terror incident and another officer said yes, absolutely investigating it as terrorism whether it's domestic or international and i was struck by that, one saying it's domestic, and one saying we are look into both points at that point. >> yeah, and those words are thrown around a lot and used legally in the law, and that's what we talk about them as law enforcement officers, and we talk about domestic terrorism in the united states as people who

are from homegrown political reasons, you know, people that are any government -- like timothy mcvey, those people can also target minority communities. eric rudolph was a white hate guy associated with a radical nazi christian church, and he went after a gay club in atlanta with two bombs. domestic terrorists, that's one thing. there's internationally inspired people who are american citizens, like, you know -- >> we have seen that, unfortunately. >> american citizens, sometimes they come from afar and they live here legally and are internationally inspired, and that's a different kind of

terrorism. and the klans-like guy, there's a difference. that's the homegrown political statement, hatred against the government or a minority group and that's different than the internationally inspired terrorism. you have to read all that stuff because they have not told us which way they are going. >> they are just beginning the investigation and trying to find out who this person is, and police do say this shooter was well prepared and organized, and they also say that the shooter is not from the area. they have an idea of who the person may be but are still trying to positively identify him and they gave that information, shooter is not from the area. and also interesting for them to right away say when asked that this incident, this mass casualty shooting at the nightclub is not connected to the shooting of the reality show star, christina grimmie who was

shot after a concert in the orlando area. stand by, jim, because i want to play more sound from the police chief. we'll talk about it after we listen. >> we made the decision to do an explosive entry on the outside of the club to get to those people, and we also used the armored vehicle to help defeat the wall and from there we were able to rescue people and our s.w.a.t. team at that time encounters the suspect somewhere in that area near one of the doorway entrances and shot and killed him. jim, you heard him say there was an armored vehicle used to breakthrough the wall along with explosive devices and he said during the course of what developed into a hostage situation overnight, they used distraction blasts as well. talk a little bit about what may have happened during that time and what was the thought behind

it. >> you know, a lot of times s.w.a.t. officers will encounter locked doors, and sometimes suspects barricade the doors and lock the doors or the door was locked and they have to get through that door or a wall, and we use explosive entries to get through the walls, and the bear cat, it's widely used by s.w.a.t. teams in america, and even around the world, and it's not a military vehicle and it was not made originally as a military vehicle, and it's -- they really came from armored trucks years ago, and they are popular with the agencies, and they use that to ram a hole through the wall and then they quickly, you know, insert themselves between the people they knew were in a certain room and the a assailant holding

hostages, and they were able to engage him. and the s.w.a.t. officers, they are very, very well trained. you know, that's all they want to do, and that's all they do is train. they train constantly. they are very good shots. they move silently, and they can move swiftly and they shoot accurately. when he comes up against s.w.a.t., you know, he is probably going to lose that gunfight, even though he hit one of the orlando pd s.w.a.t. officers in the helmet. again, the helmet products the officer and the bear cat gets in there to make the entry, and the diversionary devices, it's a noise flash diversionary device and it shocks or stuns the suspect or distracts him so the s.w.a.t. officers can make a move in, and they did it textbook, they went in and breached it and moved in quickly and they engaged him and got him

so he couldn't hurt anybody else. >> jim, what can we expect as far as what is happening right now? we know the investigators and law enforcement are still inside making sure the nightclub is free of any other explosive devices, but this is what is tough to hear for so many family members, friends, and people that were there and people in the community is that there are approximately 20 people dead, multiple people dead inside. what can we expect as far as them going through that and when this crime scene may see some of the bodies pulled? >> yeah, i think that's going to be a slow roll on that. we are going to see the families and police communicating with family members and it's going to be a slow crime scene processing there, and you will have to include the medical examiner heavily, and the orlando pd homicide bureau, and everybody is going to be in there, and atf

are tracing the guns, and they will find out where the guns were acquired. you are going to grab the guy's wallet, and his cell phone and wallet, who is this person? who is he connected to? why is he here? did he target this particular nightclub? why? when the chief says terrorism and the fbi says terrorism, there's a reason to target a nightclub, then? it's because who attends the club? it was latin night. it could be latino people, and lbgt community, they could be the target of violence, and they have to look at those issues and then be connected to a traditional stream of hatred, white hate against minority communities and they have to research who he is. they said they were not ruling out an internationally inspired

connection when a reporter asked that question, and they have to look at that as well. it's going to be an unusual target at an unusual time for an internationally inspired attack. now, that said, you know, you had the theater in france, and it was at night, but that's an usual target and time for internationally inspired acts. you see those more, you know, daytime, and different style targets. this target selection here, they are already telling us they think it's terrorism. >> yeah, it's very those motives surround just exactly what you said, surround just exactly what you said, francis, know, eric rudolph put bomb at the olympic village in atlanta, which was the most internationally diverse place in america at the time. and he put it there at night

when the athletes would all leave the venues. people of all types from all over the world. and, you know, these are the kinds of people that eric rudolph hated. and so he put the bomb there when they would all be there. so sometimes that motive comes into play. we don't know yet, but we do know they're saying they believe it's terrorism. >> yeah, this is many of the people who are waking up to this news of an overnight shooting at an orlando nightclub that police say has left approximately 20 people dead, 42 people taken to the hospital. and, again, as we're looking at a live shot there, above the pulse nightclub. and you can see there, jim, the blownout window. you can't really tell where the armored vehicle was used to push in. of but certainly the aftermath and those doors that are wide open as this continues on. jim, stand by. i want to play a little bit of sound from some of the witnesses and their accounts after this shooting. let's listen. >> moving here, this is my first nightclub, being here two

months. and this is the experience. i didn't know it was latin night. i didn't understand the music, but i still danced. i'm still wet. i don't know if it's sweat, blood, but it's under my nails. it was tragic. >> what did you hear? >> loud, banging noise, like gunshots going out. i didn't know if it was the music. it was kind of -- it went with the beat almost, until you heard just too many shots. it was just like, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang! that's when you just know chaos -- it was in turmoil. there had to have been more than one or two. had to have been. or an extended clip. i don't know much about bangs. but it sounds like it could have been a handgun. because being at a gun range, i've been there once or twice. that's kind of what it sounded like, was just -- without the ear muffs, it sounded so real. but it was far enough away to where it didn't echo my ears so it had to have been in the room

or the edge by the stage. but it was probably 1:30. >> reporter: were you here alone or with friends? >> i came here with somebody. they left, so i stayed. cars went that way. until they let us go. and then we moved down here because they said there was a bomb threat so we're down here sitting on the corner, probably five or six blocks from the bar. i don't know how far the bar is, actually. i'm not from here. >> reporter: what are you feeling? >> shock. shaken a little bit. didn't think i would ever have to save somebody who was shot or -- i'm glad i wasn't shot, you know. i feel sorry for those that were, and the families that did have victims in there. it was just a sad, sad situation. we're seeing the tags and everybody lying down, red and yellow. i helped put him on the stretcher and then they moved me out of the way.

and the other girl i helped get on but they tagged her and i said i'm not leaving you until they actually move you, move you. and they wouldn't let us go. and then i was like, i'll help you with the other people, i'll try to do what i can, because i'm okay. but you could till hear the shooting when we were in the parking lot. so i fell like they were still in there. and the one was empty and the other one was refilling and then there was another refill. it was just a very, very sad situation. trying to hold back my emotions, to be honest. it's just -- i didn't expect -- you know, you just don't expect something like this. especially when you want to go out to have a good time. you don't go out to a bar to say, oh, i'm going to end my life tonight. you go to relax, to enjoy yourself. to let loose of the stresses of life. and not to cause more stress. and this is just a tragic situation. tragic moment. i went to go see conjuring 2, and they came out here. so to come out to a horror movie to a real horror, it's just

shocking. >> if you had to count how many shots do you think there were? >> oh. more than 20 or 30. i mean, it was just one after another, after another, after another. and it could have lasted a whole song. i mean, because after everybody was out, people -- the shootings were still going and the cops were yelling, go, go, clear the area! and we're like holy [ bleep ]. so when i went down to help this guy, it's like -- are you kidding? and it's like you're still watching yourself. and then you see people on the side of buildings, and i jumped a couple times, because i wasn't sure if that person was someone with a gun or somebody who was hiding. because you don't know. you don't know who is what, who is where. and you're just like oh, man. and you can't go anywhere, pa e because the valet have your keys. >> reporter: did you see anybody with a gun? or gunfire at all? >> i didn't see any gunfire or the shooters. i heard everything and i hit the ground, because i was right by -- i was near the exit by the

couches. there's a vip section with couches. and there's a bathroom right there. so i crawled my way out through the bathroom area. that was one witness account after this shooting killed about 20 people overnight at the orlando nightclub, pulse nightclub. with police saying there were about 300 people inside this club which is described to have multiple rooms. not one big open area. other witnesses said when they initially heard the gunshots, the series of gunshots, they thought it was part of the music, but realized it was getting louder and continuing on amidst the chaos there with many witnesses saying they had to rush out and even at one point crawl over bodies to get out. police say there were about 15 people inside a bathroom after the first part of the shooting that developed into a hostage situation. hostage negotiators came in, crisis negotiators came in and police saw it was time for them to use armored vehicle along with explosive devices to break through that wall and as a result, they say they saved

about 30 people during that rescue. i want to bring in clint van sant, an msnbc contributor on the phone with me. and clint too many times you are awaken in the morning with word of a shooting. and in this case, now we know more, about 20 people who are dead, many of those bodies, many of the people still inside the club as of now with over 40 people taken to the hospital. >> yeah, this is a situation for law enforcement. and francis, as you have been reporting, the evolution of this shooting situation. according to police, as you know what started outside with the gunman, armed with at least a rifle and a handgun, starts firing. and then an off-duty police officer working in uniform at this club, he's the first responder. he engages the gunmen and very quickly two other officers show up. so you've got three officers and

a gun battle with the subject. the subject then retreats inside of this bar. now, francis, that's what law enforcement is going to have to determine for a number of different questions. did he intentionally want to retreat inside, take hostages, kill more people, or was that as a result of a confrontation he was involved in. either way, he gets into the bar, and as you're reporting right now, we've got at least 20 dead, 42 taken to the hospital. >> what does it tell you when police describe this gunman, the very little that they are saying publicly, is that he was well-prepared to organize, not from the orlando area. they're still trying to positively identify him. what does this say that they are withholding that, knowing they're still trying to gather the forensic evidence inside? and also, clint, as we have seen too many times in the past, we know the pattern. once we find out more, we'll eventually see law enforcement, and maybe even raids at homes where this shooter may have

lived or he or she may have known? >> very much so. now, we're told that initially, the fbi may well have what they believe to be the identity of this person. as jim cavanaugh has been reporting, many times the first thing you do, you look for a driver's license, you look for some type of identification, or maybe somebody knows the sure shooter, that's so-and-so. that's the job of other agencies to run this down. is it somebody with a fake i.d. who do we have there. and, of course, we have the shooter, he or she now dead. but the extended question is, are there others involved? did somebody maybe help this person. maybe not by shooting at the club, but did somebody drive the person there? if not, where is the shooter's car? is that car booby trapped? is there people that knew this was going to happen? did somebody provide the shooter guns and ammunition?

did they provide them other type of support? and as you suggest, it looks like this shooter is from outside the area. number two, as heavily armed as he is with both a rifle and a handgun, it sounds like this was likely a planned event. now how planned, we don't know. but at least the individual being there multiple weapons at this precise location, this all appears to be part of a plan as opposed to a happenstance. >> yeah, the police say he was well-prepared and organized. stand by, clint. as we update our viewers here at the top of the hour. if you are just joining us, we are following breaking news out of florida at this hour. police say at least 20 people are dead, including the gunman, after the shooting at an orlando nightclub early this morning. what they are calling an act of terror. at least 42 people were transported to local hospitals with injuries. the sure, p