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of this next hour, we go back to orlando correspondent gabe gutierrez, another member of our team who made it there in the first hours after this tragedy and gabe, we've run out of ways to describe it. hate crime, yes. terrorism, yes. a story of local impact to the orlando met poll traropolitan a people that make that town go and welcome so many people in as tourism is a huge part of the economy there but live and work there 24/7. >> reporter: that's exactly right, brian. chaos is sinking in and this community is shaken as we're learning more details about that fire fight and the three hours between 2:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m. on sunday where police confronted the suspect and what took so long. we learned more of those details and we also saw some new video

captured by one of the victims, a man posted some video to snapchat where we saw the chaos just as it was happening but back to the federal authorities. they say this unfolded over the course of several hours. we know, of course, from yesterday that that uniformed police officer working security that he confronted the suspect, now we know from authorities that that police officer retreated back up arrives in two minutes and then there was a fire fight with the suspect who then barricades himself inside a bathroom with several hostages. now here is the question that we've been asking is what happened in that intervening time? now we know from local authorities that it kind of switched from an active shooter situation to a hostage situation and the fbi director said that suspect, mateen, that there were three 911 calls. the first one he called the dispatcher and hung up and called again and talked with the dispatcher briefly and a third time where the dispatcher called

him back. during those calls, he pledged allegiance to isis and support to the boston marathon bombers, as well as another man from florida who went to syria to act as a suicide bomber. so we're learning more details about the scene, brian. it is still an active scene with investigators pouring over not just this scene but also the suspect's electronic trail. the fbi director saying there was strong indications of radicalization. brian? >> gabe gutierrez in orlando. the indication and phone records brings us to pete williams. pete, when we discover someone's electronic calling card, their identity, their number, their device, it does open up -- provided it's opened to law enforcement, a big part of the story. >> absolutely. that will be something they will look at for many days now.

his electronic devices taken from his deputy have been sent to the fbi's crime lab in virginia and the bloody cell phone he left behind in the nightclub itself. we're told he did not have iphones, no apple iphones and i mention that only because if that is the case, it would not appear that we're going to face another court battle like we had in san bernardino where the fbi was unable to get into the devices and had to try to find other ways to do it. eventually found somebody that volunteered a way to get in. but so far, so good on that front apparently. now, here is a strange wrinkle, brian. so they will look at the devices they found that he had himself but some people have come forward down in orlando to say that a couple of people say in the gay community that they got messages on a gay dating app from him. they claim that they received

these messages. one person said he got more than one and didn't like them and m deleted them. what the nature of the message was, i don't know. whether they were harassment or just trying to find out what would happen, if you send a message or whatever but in any event, the fbi is looking into that. no confirmation that he's done that or did that. but that is something that they have heard about and that is something they are looking at. >> and pete, one question about sheer mechanics of entering this establishment, have you heard in any of the briefings you've listened to or attended how it is he came through the door with a concealed ar-15 style, ar-15-size long weapon? >> no >> no, i don't know. i don't know what he was wearing. we don't know if he was wearing

ballistic or bulletproof vests. he claimed to have explosives attached to him and that's one reason why it took so long for police to get in there and once the thing was over to get all the investigators in to do their forensic work inside the scene because they were concerned about his claim he had explosives. well, we've been hearing for several days and the fbi director confirmed today no explosives were found in there but how he managed to get in with a rifle, i assume this club is like most of these clubs. you go in and have to pay an admission charge and make sure you're the right age and sometimes they look at your id so how he was able to do that carrying a rifle, whether he had it in a jacket or what, i don't know. >> all right. pete williams in our washington burro, pete, thanks. we have a member of congress whose been nice enough to join us, congress member of congress andre carson, democrat of indiana first muslim lawmaker to serve on the house intelligence committ

committee, also a founding member of the congressional lgbt equality kau kucaucus. thank you for coming in. >> thank you. >> what's your biggest concern today and i assume you've heard all of what is in the political dialogue today. >> well, i must say, brian, thank you for having me on your show. my heart goes out to the victims and their families first and foremost but secondly, i think now is the time for us to sir usely talk about creating safe spaces. the president's initiative with the violent extremism effort is a critical piece in prevention. now we can never tap into someone's mind. we can study behaviors as was done several years ago by the fbi and study movements of groups and it's clear there are many people in this country who are becoming self-radicalized and that's often hard to detect so we need community steak holders to play a big role.

imams, psychologists, friends, if you see something, say something. and i think it's important now more than ever that the law enforcement community is given the chance to work corporatively as they are doing to make sure these things don't happen in the future. >> and yet, you can see seeds of that earlier in this man's life. elements of the fbi, the system working as it was designed to. he makes s a comment about radicalization at work. for ten months they are on him including an undercover in his life but lacking evidence, we know what happened there and then without connecting the dots, he's able to purchase firearms. >> absolutely. after he was taken off of the list couple years later, we saw this incident happen unfortunately. again, we can never tap into

someone's mind but that's not to say the current gun laws were not come police sit. so if our laws were tighter, could he have gotten this in the black market or under ground? perhaps. but it could have been very difficult for him to do so. we need to have an honest conversation away from the emotional or rhetoric of the day but an honest conversation as lawmakers, community steake holders, parents, what we can do about radicalization. by the way, this was in fact a hate crime. it was an act of terrorism. terrorism and hate no one has a monopoly on that. it can come from anywhere. as concerned citizens, we have to come together to push our country forward. >> and congressman, one last question about political corr t

correctness. it's at the center of the debate about islam and america and on the other side from you i dee log -- ideologically, it will kill us. >> it's important to speak about those who identify or claim to be muslim or jewish or whatever and commit terrorists acts for political purposes. i don't think we need to be obsessed with a kind of certain phraseology that will distract us from the real issue, that is radicalization and the expansion of influence from some terrorist groups, many home grown and many don't claim to be muslim. they identify themselves with other belief systems, as well. >> congressman, andre carson, democrat of indiana. thank you for coming on the broadcast today. >> thank you, sir. all right. another break for us. our coverage continues right after this. what's it like to be in good hands? like finding new ways

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we are back. presidential candidate bernie sanders has been back home in burlington. we heard from him yesterday. he's been huddling with friends and family and campaign aides saying he's still in this race, well, with other good citizens of burlington, they have been engaging in a bit of a silent rally, a walk in burlington vermont for the cause following the loss of life in orlando, florida. senator with his wife, friends and family members and the secret service detail. just wanted to share that video with you as it is coming into us. this morning, we heard from

president obama in the oval office. he put together a meeting of his national security staff. that was followed by a briefing from the fbi director. last night, yesterday afternoon, i guess, more accurately in the first hours after this tragedy, we heard from the president and addressed to the nation from the west wing of the white house and by our count, it was the 14th time the president of the united states has gone on the air to talk to all of us following a mass casualty event that was caused by firearms. cal perry has been looking at the topic of guns in america, domestic terrorism and the dangers american's face from these mass shootings. >> make no mistake. we're a gun culture. president obama calling the new town shooting one of the darkest days in his presidency. here are the acts of mass shootings in the united states

since the new town massacre in 2012. there have been many mass shootings, 36 people killed by gun violence every day in this country. this is the trend in the past decade. this number includes people wounded by guns. it includes suicides, as well. this is put together by the cdc. you can see it trended downward in 2008 but we're on an upward trend. this gap will be from mass shootings. this is the difference between casualties and the instances of gun violence. how do we compare to the rest of the world? not well. the u.s. 88 out of every 100 compare that to yemen where we're looking at 55 per 100. take iraq. you'll remember when the u.s. invaded iraq. they put a law down each household could have one gun. iraq is at 34 guns per one.

the u.s. comprises about 5% of the world's population but about 35 to 50% of guns in the world, why is that weird stat? because about 8% of gun owners in this country own ten or more guns. as we move forward here, here are deaths compared to the rest of the world. look at australia in 1996, the laws in australia changed drastically after the port arthur shooting, that was a brutal shooting of young school children there in australia and many people point to australia as a model of gun laws moving forward. in background checks in 2015, 23 million people have background checks outstanding trying to get guns. that's the highest on record. this is now taking place online. we're seeing some major advocacy. this is what 50 dead people look like on a house in los angeles. this was sent by chat michael in los angeles. since i've been doing this live

shot. on average 87 people a day die from gun violence. that's one every 17 minutes. today alone there have been 32 shootings, at least 12 people have been killed, 16 have been wounded, at least four of the shootings have taken place since you started anchoring at 4:00 p.m. today. >> cal, back several paynes ago, you wrote 88/10 088/100. that's 88 weapons per 100 people for the u.s. >> exactly. as we go through here, switzerland is about 45 per 100. number ten sweden is at about 26. >> surprises on that list starting with switzerland and finland, i guess. >> and saudi arabia i was surprised. 35 for 100. >> and three paynes forward the deaths per other countries in

the world. the red bar right there. unbelievable. >> yeah, and again, you know, a lot of these countries here have past recent gun legislation and that's where you see a lot of politics coming into place. the port arthur shooting in 1996 was a seminole moment in australia that changed gun laws forever and australia is one of the safest countries for gun violence. >> i saw you go through this demonstration today. i wanted to give our viewers the benefit of your findings again. thank you very much. back down to orlando we go. jacob rascon outside the hospital there where he's been stationed. jacob? >> reporter: and brian, what we did today, we were able to sit down with those six trama surgeons who responded here and what we found out was that the first, dr. chad smith was here on call. there always is somebody on call at a level one trama center like this and immediately, when the victims started to pour in, of course, he realized that this

was isn't the regular five to six victims they expect every night, he immediately called for backup and in total, there was six surgeons within 30 minutes. of course, in total they got 44 victims at this hospital behind me. eight of them were already dead once they were admitted the doctors tell me and one died later when they were trying to operate or about to operate. the rest, 35 people can count their lives on these surgeons and the hundreds of other doctors and nurses and staff who were with them. of course, it looked like they had been in a war zone. some of them still had not slept since this happened. they had not gone home but those few who did said they knew exactly what they were going to do first. take a listen. >> when it does finally sink in it's exceedingly humbling. it's -- i went home and just grabbed my wife and kids and, you know, was unbelievably

grateful that i had family to go home to. >> proud we were able to do what we did for sure. >> i would say this is the worst and the best day of my career. i think we would all say that. >> and that type of back and forth, it was the worst and best day of their careers was the sense we got from them. it was unbelievably tragic of course. their training, they say kicked in. i asked how are you able to make life and death decisions. they say you don't really think about it. they train every monday, in fact, some sort of trama simulation and then twice a year they have a mass casualty simulation. they have been doing this for years and years and of those six trama surgeons, a few of them have been at this hospital for more than a decade. the rest have been here for several years. they know each other well there are a total of 11 trama surgeons at the medical center, but this, of course, was unusual. the highest casualty event they

had. 44 victims and thanks to them and their team, 35 survivors now have family to go home to, as well. >> unbelievable, jacob. such a specific category of physician at that level of employment. the one on duty surgeon knew the rest of the network knew who to call and they all knew the rest. so an incredible story. thank you for bringing that to us. another break in our coverage. we'll be right back with more right after this. think fixing your windshield is a big hassle? not with safelite. this family needed their windshield replaced, but they're daughters heart was set on going to the zoo. so we said if you need safelite to come to the zoo we'll come to the zoo! only safelite can fix your windshield anywhere in the us. with our exclusive mobileglassshops. and our one of a kind trueseal technology, for a reliable bond. service that fits your schedule. that's another safelite advantage.

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we have to stop the tremendous flow of syrian refugees into the united states. we don't know who they are. they have no documentation, and

we don't know what they are planning. >> that is part of donald trump's speech that is instantly controversial. one of the reporters covering it for msnbc pointed out the various points donald trump was making, pinning them against the gop as presumptive nominee. for this discussion, let's bring in hugh hewitt who conveniently hosts something called the hugh hewitt show heard on 120 different stations, 120 cities. thank you for joining us. i'm going to read you these tweets from bengie of msnbc. trump keeps angrily insisting muslims in america aren't turning in terrorists. this is the platform of a far right european party. the gop has completed its transformation. the muslim ban is now the number one national security priority of the republican party. what say you to that?

>> i heard a different speech, brian. i heard the speech in which the emphasis was, we need to tell the truth about radical islam. and this was the opening that mr. trump made on friday at the faith and freedom forum when he challenged the president to use the term radical islam and he challenged secretary of state clinton to do so and he was beginning segway into a speech that was supposed to be about her policy failures in egypt and libya and syria except the horror of orlando intervened so he focused on this telling the truth about radical islam. on my radio show this morning on the network, i said look, i had "the washington post" on, daniel vail, the amazing novelist whose book "the black widow" will hope many eyes and rubio opened the door to running again because of this, they are calling on

administration to speak about how deadly is the threat? so the speech i heard, which incorporated, yes, the ban on muslim entry into the united states, a renewed focus on their backgrounds and allocation of resources into the probing of those people who are already here who show up and you might even say he had been listening to dr. comey who said he reviewed the contacts with the killer and is confident he couldn't have done more. we lack the deep access necessa necessary. i heard a different speech and i think it's one that will resonate with the american people. it is not bigoted. it is purposposeful in the way t enter israel proper from the territories or abroad. they know their targets and we have to develop the same sort of

vigilance and his second thing was political correctness has to go out the door here. we can't worry about hurt feelings. we have to worry about 50 dead people and 51 wounded people at the pulse and i noted, brian, as well how open he was to saying and embracing the gay and lesbian and chance getter community as one would expect from donald trump, nobody accused him in the remotest of being bigoted from an lgbt community. i think he accomplished what he needed to do to. >> we know political correctness when we see it. but what does that mean to you that the inference that po politicpol political correctness is holding us back or making us vulnerable? >> when the president spoke yesterday he was sorrowful and went out of his way not to say radical islam, not to say the jv team he dewrited in his conversation or ryan liza

conversation is rampaging across the middle east and upumping jihads into europe and more than 50 back into the united states. direct director comby said he had more than 900 plots. it is a terrible malignant and the president's refusal to name the problem is aggravating to those of us that spent time in the world of intelligence or actively engaged in the war now and i've been doing that for 25 plus years but know mrs. clinton server for example compromises badly in that war, who know that the president may have in fact intervened again on the changing of afghan war policy set to be announced last week and so what donald trump did and i solute him for it is to change the pivot that people want. to make the pivot that people wanted. a week ago, a lot of republicans were worried he was swamping not

his own concanada see. tonight after the speech on friday and today and the upcoming one on hillary clinton that i hope brings up fernando and how did he show up on the international security advisory board. president clinton's, bill clinton's 16 million dollar wind fall at the same time the university was receiving $50 million from the state department. that's all political. if he stays focused on establishly the threat of radical islam to the united states, he will be doing himself a great deal of benefit and at the same time, putting a spotlight on secretary clinton for as i said, her disastrous record at state. it was an utter failure. >> to allow me to catch my breath following your donald trump my control room says we have another snippet of the

speech. i doesn't know which portion, however. >> when i'm elected, i will suspend immigration from areas of the world where there is a proven history of terrorism against the united states, europe or our allies. until we fully understand how to end these threats. and by the way, we have no choice. she wants to take away american's guns and then admit the very people who want to slaughter us, let them come into the country, we don't have guns, let them come in. let them have all the fun they want. >> so hugh hewitt, what does that measure on the hugh hewitt hy index? >> he's talking about syria, libya and refugee camps where people passed through the isis libya created by hillary clinton to congregate in libya and greece and talking about not bringing them to the united states and i believe that will

resonate with the american people unless and until there are ways of vetting people. i do believe there are lots of syrians that could come here if they are properly vetted and we know where they are. there is a realistic problem when the infrastructure of syria is destroyed and libya is isis out posts, it's very hard to accept refugees without having danger come with them. brian, i don't know if the control room has them. the inducing portion of the speech for the left is when donald trump sat down and said i'm going to consult with the national rifle association on policies to keep us safe. that's going to cause strokes across the united states but it does lay open the difference betwn the republican approach to international security and domestic security and the democratic support and yesterday immediately people wanted to start talking about gun control. the first thing you need to do is who is this guy? where did this killer come from? how was he radicalized? it online as people expect?

are there radical ima m's involved in florida and abroad and coal up with your solution. the solution before the facts makes no sense whatsoever and i saw earlier your interview with diane feinstein, i thought it was very good. dale is an l.a. times justice correspondent knows the issue well. if senator feinstein's bill that she basically read to you had been adopted, would the killer have been able to get guns because he was on the watch list and taken off the watch list. i'm not sure but i believe he bought his guns after he went off the watch list. so senator feinstein ice bill would have no impact on stopping this atrocity. so that to me is what trump is getting at. >> to the other questions you posed who is this guy and where is he from? we kind of have our answers on that. he's from not far from the trump family home. queens new york. moves to florida. yesterday one of our guests

december skrscribed him as a lo security guard with aspirations to some day become a cop. self-radicalized. reasonable people can disagree it may be a grand term for what happened to this guy who was perhaps looking for an influence, looking to make a name for himself. grabbed his influences from different strands of orthodox and sadly we know the rest, but i think what so many people are complaining about former member of the watch list they were worried enough about him to insert into his life for ten months and put an undercover guy on him. that threat was lost. he goes to buy two weapons and no connective tissue. >> it's interesting. where was he from? we're all from different places now not merely geographical. i'm from northeastern ohio and i wear my ohio flag proudly and

i'll root for the caves and browns and indians but from every twitter account i visit, i'm also from every website i spent time on. i'm from msnbc now, from the salem radio network, i'm from the places i return todayly int. jihads, where they live online is explained by daniel or "black flags "or michael weiss in his book "the rise of isis." we all live online, our countries and new towns and states are places that don't exist except on the keyboard. we need to find where this individual lived online and connect the dots and when senator feinstein, she's got to get modern. a watch list, people end up on it for no reason and it doesn't work if you take known jihads off the watch list and i'm not

blaming the fbi, they are profession professional. you can't keep everybody on a watch list. but her bill would not have stopped this massacre. that's my conclusion right now. so people with solutions that look at guns are ignoring the solution that is isis that nested under president obama and secretary clinton's watch. the red line that was not enforced, the libyan intervention and destructive wave and it was not bigoted, it was not outside of the margins of acceptable discourse. it will define the different between hillary and donald if donald stays on that and i hope he does. >> hugh hewitt has always been a formidable representative of his view point. it is why he did have a radio network and we're happy to have him here. reasonable people can disagree. at the end of the day of course, we got a terrible tragedy we're

covering. >> we do. >> hugh, thank you very much for coming on with us. the view from the other side of the isle, on the other side of this break. hi! hey! i've made plans for later in case this date doesn't go well. same here. wouldn't it be great if everyone said what they meant? the citi double cash card does. earn 1% cash back when you buy, and 1% as you pay. double means double. but can your multivitamin to be healthy. do more for your immune health? now one a day has the first multivitamin with probiotics to support the 70% of your immune system that's

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position to help us block it. we should be intensifying contacts, not scapegoating or isolating them. inflammatory anti muslim rhetoric and threatening to ban the families and friends of muslim americans as well as millions of muslim business people and tourists from entering the country hurts the vast majority of muslims. >> we heard from donald trump and the very forceful advocate in today 's conversation about today's topic hugh hewitt and the other side as represented by two-term maryland senator and long-time member of the house, ben carden, democrat and ranking member of the foreign relations committee. thank you for coming on.

i understand you heard hue huet layout the argument and here we are just over 24 hours in the wake of the death of 50 americans including the gunman here. how would you counter what you just heard? >> first, brian, thank you for having me on and first, our prayers are with the families and the victims and their families. what a horrific event that took place in our country. and i listened to what he said and quite frankly, there is very little that i could agree with other than we don't know all the details concerning this tragedy. we don't know everything we need to know about how this occurred. one thing is clear to me, yes, we're going express concerns for families and victims but we're going to act. one thing we can do, there is no reason why private individuals should be able to legally obtain

in this country, military style assault weapons. there is no reason why you can legally buy ammunition clips that will hold multiple rounds. in is not needed for reck national use or your defense or private ownership here. we can do several things at the same time. what secretary clinton said is true. when you give -- send out the rhetoric that muslims aren't welcome in america, how are you going to get the must almolim community to work with us and identify problems that could help keep america safe. if they don't believe our system is fair towards their ethnic back ground, their religion, will they work with our country to keep us safe? it's counterproductive and doesn't make us safer. yes, we want to make sure people that come to our country whether as refugees or visitors or students that we know who they are and they are veted to make sure they don't have connections to terrorists organizations but

we also have to watch what is going on in america itself. that means we have to do better here in america. >> senator cardin -- >> the perpetrator -- yes. >> what you just said about the gun purchases, who shouldn't be able to buy and own that weapon, these weapons specifically. convert the language you used into a proposed piece of legislation. what happens to it in the senate? happens to it in the house and why he asked rhetorically? >> first of all, as i'm sure you know, the republicans control both the house and the senate and they won't let us bring these bills up on a clear vote. we think we have in some cases enough votes to pass this legislation. we had bipartisan support for some of these bills and yet the republican leadership won't let us have a vote on it. that's particular frustrating because we believe the american people are on our side.

you gave out the numbers before on statistics of weapons in america and need to act and our country to lead the world. >> what about the topic of political reference? you touched on it, so did i. donald trump really went there today and it's almost come down to this powerful visual that hillary clinton concluded her speech with. we had nicole wallace on earlier, communications director for president george w. bush. very proud of the fact that in the days following he went to the mosque and gave a statement and hillary clinton used that in her speech today. precisely what the other side says is a form of political correctness, that we can't afford to engage in anymore. >> it's not a matter of

political correctness. this has been welcoming to people of all faiths. every major religion would condemn in the strongest possible terms what happened in orlando. yes, people under the name of religion do horrible things but it's not the teachings. we are a nation of believers and a nation that recognizes that diversity is our strength and we should never lose sight of the ideas. >> senator ben carden democrat of the state of maryland. thank you for being with us. another break, and when we come back, the contents of a statement just in the last few minutes released by the trump campaign as politics continue to swirl. what's it like to be in good hands? man, it's like pure power at your finger tips. like the power to earn allstate reward points, every time i drive. ...want my number?

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on the politics of today. that today includes the trump campaign pulling the credentials of the washington post. they are obviously free to cover donald trump from outside the confines of the interior of the campaign, but their credentials have been pulled. donald trump has since doubled down on his reasoning. as i read this, remember that statements from the trump campaign are often dictated from donald trump, 27-year-old hope hicks, the press secretary is the only other staffer in that area. this reads headline trump campaign statement regarding "the washington post", the washington pose unfortunately covers mr. trump very inaccurately. today's headline donald trump suggestions president obama was involved with orlando's shooting is a perfect example. we no longer feel compelled to work with a publation that put

its need for clicks above journal list i can integrity and write falsely about mr. trump. mr. trump does not mind a bad story but it has ton honest. the fact is, the washington pose is being used by the owners of amazon as their political lobbyists so they don't have to pay taxes and don't get sued for tendencies that led to the destruction of department stores and the retail industry. so an attack on jeff bazos and his company, amazon and the owners write recently of the washington post. back down to orlando, florida, the top pick that compels our coverage we go and nbc's carry sanders in fort pierce more exactly. we last talked to carry late last night and carry, did i see today what happened in san bernardino and that is law enforce the had moved through the suspect's apartment and now

the landlord, someone leaves the door open and news media get to go through the suspect's apartment? >> reporter: you know, it's a very fine distinction because i was among those who entered the apartment in san bernardino with a live camera. what happened there was indeed as you pointed out that the landlord invited the media in. in this particular case, we believe this condo is owned by omar mateen and his wife and their child. and while he is dead, his wife and child are hold up about 12 miles from here and as far as we know have not spoken to the media and certainly have not given anybody access into the apartment. what we understand happened was some journalists here went around to the back of the apartment and just started fiddling with some doors and there was a sliding glass door that opened and in went a tv company, doing television news,

in went a still photographer taking pictures and so that may indeed turn out to be a breaking and entering situation that the police will investigate. we do know since that happened, the police have been much more vigilant out here and patrolling around here and have gone back to the apartment repeatedly and told anybody back there they need to leave. that apartment right around the corner here, number 107. in the meantime, the folks who live in this community here in this condo complex have done as often happens after something so tragic like this happens, they are talking among themselves. they are talking to reporters saying was there a sign? was there something we could have picked up on? should i have said something? one of the things that some of the residents tell us is that the gunman here, as a resident was somewhat quiet, somewhat brusque. when people would say to him hello, he wouldn't respond but they say they never realized they were living next door to a

monste monster. >> nobody wants their neighbor to be a monster. that's everybody's fear and we had no idea. >> there was no taletale signs and we do keep to ourselves in this building. you know, we're not knock on each other's doors for a cup of sugar or anything really. so yeah, just to know that someone can live among you like that is really scary. >> reporter: so brian, that leaves people here and perhaps across the country wondering they are hold see something, say something but they are never really sure what is the tip off and in this case, the residents here say they never saw anything that would fortell this. >> they got one thing right, they had a monster in their mist. he proved that in the early morning hours sunday. carry sanders, thank you so much for your reporting from that

apartment complex. we want to return to evan coleman, we last talked to him late last night. a senior partner and nbc news terrorism analysts and a guy that devoted his entire adult life to this top pick. evan, i keep coming back to the terms of our in your trade and whether or not this term self-radicalized is exactly what happened here or too grand for a guy like the one we're describing. >> based on what the fbi said this is extremely likely it is someone self-radicalized. this is someone that not only idolized isis but made statements in support of hasballah, being the shiite militia in lebanon currently waging war against isis inside of syria. it is an absolute and unexplainable, unexplicable

paradox somebody would be a supporter of hasballah and isis. hasballah is the devil according to isis. somebody who likes both those groups is not somebody whose a diehard isis supporters. it's somebody whose been radicalized certainly. but not by any particular strain of radical islam. this is somebody with a very personal agenda and doesn't strike me as odd. this guy is not from the middle east. this is amazing. we talk about barring immigration from the middle east. this guy is an american fund mentally an american from the east coast of florida and went after a target close to him that he knew that was reachable. the fact that he did it in the name of isis really doesn't mean all that much. isis will certainly claim credit for this. but if they knew this guy was praisi praising hasballah, they could be condemning him. anyone that this inks this guy was sent by isis, somebody has

to explain how he can support hasballah, the mortal enemy of isis and at the same time be a hard core trained isis operative. it makes absolutely no sense. >> i guess that's what i was getting to. you can be self-radicalized, mix up heroes and inadvertently list at your heroes two enemies, be dumb as a brick on this subject matter and yet be dangerous as a monster with more than one weapon in your hands and a nightclub in front of you with whatever motivation you bring there. >> when you live in a country where anyone including someone on a terrorist watch list can buy a semiautomatic assault rifle, it's not any great surprise that things like this happen. again, this is -- this guy was dumb as a brick. only in this country can someone dumb as a brick kill 50 people with a single weapon. that's something we should ask ourselves. that's the question here. not whether he was radicalized

by isis. that's meaningless. he was radicalized period. he had an agenda and chip on his shoulder and wanted to hurt people. he didn't care who those people were. that's what we should be talking about. >> well, that's the answer i think i was looking for. evan coleman, thank you. as always, for coming on and helping us sort through this. that is going to do it for just this hour and just this portion of our coverage. as we leave the air for, again, just this hour, we wanted to leave you with some of these images we have compiled. last night the list was so long, the city of ochorlando knew we would be looking at 49 names of the deceased. they have set up a website so people can search for their loved ones. all it was missing, all the names were missing were faces and identities and evidence that not only are these names, these are lives that are over.

these are families that are still receiving the worst possible news. our coverage will continue at the top of the hour. worst ever, and this is "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. tonight a stunned country is mourning the 49 victims of the deadliest mass shooting in history. the gunman responsible, a home grown extremest. within hours of the horror, it's become the front line of the american political debate and in the aftermath of the attack, presumptive republican