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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  June 19, 2016 6:00am-7:01am PDT

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on the rise, mary's data could be under attack. with the help of at&t, and security that senses and mitigates cyber threats, their critical data is safer than ever. giving them the agility to be open & secure. because no one knows & like at&t. it's good to be with you on a sunday morning. i'm francis rivera. it's 9:00 in the east, 6:00 out west. orlando one week later, the memorials across the city to the church services being held this morning. how the day is being marked by those who lost so much, plus. >> we got your back. >> orlando! >> we got your back. >> orlando! >> the show of support around the world on this somber anniversary and politics, the looming showdown ahead on
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capitol hill over gun control. what could really get accomplished. also. >> i think that i win either way. i can win one way or the other. >> donald trump promising to go at it alone and stop fundraising for republicans if the party doesn't get behind him. ladies and gentlemen, please join us in a moment of silence to honor the 49 victims who lost their lives and 53 injured during last weekend's tragic events. >> that was the scene last night at the start of the orlando's first major sporting event since the shootings at the pulse nightclub. last sunday a lone gunman carried out the deadliest shooting in u.s. history. we are outside of the pulse nightclub and sarah, what is being done today to remember the victims? >> reporter: good morning, francis. there is a large vigil planned for later today outside just outside of downtown orlando.
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thousands of people expected to attend that. in the meantime, people can visit one of several memorials here in orlando including one outside the hospital where so many of the injured were treated. it is 49 crosses set out to represent the 49 victims of this attack. last night's major league soccer game didn't just include a moment of silence but incredibly emotional night where first responders were brought onto the field and introduced to the crowd. many fans came wearing orlando strong t-shirts. >> it's been up and down all week. it's been tears, anything we're reading, you know, we're just talking earlier reading the surgeon's interview, the ormc. we know a lot of people that work in the hospital. she personally knows friends that were there at pulse and it's been a really hard week for everyone. >> and at 49 seconds into the
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game, play was paused for that moment of silence. 49 balloons in a rainbow of colors were tied on the 49 empty seats. it was a night of emotion and symbolism. back to you. >> sarah, what more do we know about the investigation. is there a pause today as they remember the victims or what is happening in that? >> reporter: no, the fbi continues to process the scene orlando police working in a support role and law enforcement official tells nbc news in an analysis so far in the items omar mateen left behind, they haven't revealed any manifesto or suicide note. we're also learning more about his increase in spending on his credit cards in the weeks leading up to the attack. once again, a senior law enforcement officer telling nbc news that the majority of that spending was on jewelry for his wife and expensive dinners.
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back to you. >> remains to be seen what more information she can provide. sarah for us in orlando one week after that tragedy. thank you so much. now to political headlines, a new reaction for donald trump calling for unity while at the same time saying he can win the election without the republican party. it's part of an interview that will air this morning on "meet the press." >> i think because i'm a different kind of a candidate and, you know, paul ryan said that, i'm a different kind of candidate, i think that i win either way. i can win one way or the other. >> with them or without them? >> i do believe that. i won the primaries with them. i'm an outsider. i do believe that we can win either way, but it would be nice to stick together. >> trump's comments come one day of a washington post report on renewed efforts to stop him from getting the nomination. the presumptive nominee charged back at a rally in phoenix last
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night. >> no, i get a kick when these poor, poor people that have been fighting me forever, they just don't understand they can't beat me. they just can't beat me. so now i hear and we'll just finish off, i hear they want to do something at the convention. first of all, it's not legal. can't do it. second of all, the republican national committee is we many 100%. reince priebus said the most ridiculous thing. third of all, it's a pure fabrication by the press. >> a new report on "the washington post" explores trump's declining poll numbers and suggestions that november is fast becoming what the gop fears a referendum on trump. another report in the post suggestions that trump's rhetoric on immigration could cause arizona to turn blue. apple will not support the republican convention in any way due to trump's comments on immigration, women and minorities but others are sitting out the convention,
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apple is reportedly the first to site trump's comments as the main factor. want to get the latest on the trump campaign, we turn to jacob rascon in arizona where mr. trump was rallying yesterday. trump has been down playing the efforts to stop and say it's a hoax made up by the press but is the campaign growing frustrated by resistance? >> reporter: francis, if his recent rallies are any indication, the answer is question. of course, it's not a fabrication by the press, nbc news confirmed that washington post report and spoke with the leader of the movement, adele get, a republican delegate in colorado who has reps in 25 states or so to do this they want a conscience clause they call it that would free them up to vote for anybody on the first ballot which of course could lead to denying trump the nomination but he grew increasingly frustrated, even angry as you heard in sound bytes and went on to say what would happen if they were
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successful? who would be the candidate? take a listen. >> it's a hoax, i'm telling you. these are the most dishonest people, not all of them. not all of them. who are they going to pick? i beat everybody. i don't mean beat. i beat the hell out of them. right? beat the hell out of them. we'll beat hillary and it would be helpful if the republicans could help us a little bit, you know, okay? >> now, he says who are they going to pick? the person that nbc news talked to, the person leading this effort acknowledges they have nobody who is directing them, ted cruz or john kasich or anybody and if they were successful, they say they have quote no clue what would happen next. that they don't have a candidate, a white knight ready to come in and steal the nomination. francis? >> jacob rascon for us there in scottsdale, arizona.
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thank you for the update. i want to bring in caitlyn hughie-burns and sabrina. thank you for being with me this sunday morning. caitlyn, i want to start with you saying in the same breath he can win on his own but needs the party to rally behind him and stop the fundraising. how are you reading that? >> right, well donald trump earlier this week really scolded gop leaders saying that he can win this thing without them and he really has a mind set of he emerged from a very crowded primary as the winner but you know the primary is very different from a general election as we know. it's a different kind of e l electr electret. he will need the party and apparatus and infrastructure to help him through and also, they need him to help a fundraiser. we saw him fundraising earlier
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this week in texas and reince priebus joined him in the effort. the pledge to go at it alone is also problematic for the party because they really need to present a united front, especially heading into the convention, which is only a month away today. >> you hear him say one way or the other especially these fundraisers, sabrina, out of arizona where he was last night. it is crucial when it comes to the washington post suggesting that the trump effect there could really be an opportunity for the democrats to kind -- to turn it blue because of the large hispanic vote. so you think about how it's favored the clintons in the past, bill clinton in '96 and hillary clinton in the recent primary there. what can the hillary clinton camp and what can she do to capitalize on this hurdle for trump? >> well, i think that the clinton campaign is certainly looking at opportunities to turn certain states blue and arizona being one of them and georgia another with the african american population and utah is on the table so to speak. it's not going to be a priority.
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those would be states that come after other key battle grounds. it comes out in arizona to the latino vote. you have roughly 350,000 hispanic voters in arizona not currently registered to vote and if democrats can galvanize them and especially through donald trump's record of rhetoric, motivates them to turn up that certainly can really swing the state in the favor of democrats. and then you also have voters, of course, in some of these states, the more we were talking about inability the consolidate the support of republicans, you know, if you have a factiractio republican voters, suburban women have been critical as a voting block. that can really pose a great threat to republican chances of holding on to some states that certainly would not have anticipated would have been up for grabs had the nominee been anyone but donald trump. >> hillary clinton was off the
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campaign trail yesterday celebrating the arrival of her newest grandson but one with the tax of donald trump, hitting him hard was elizabeth warren. here is what she said at the new hampshire democratic party convention yesterday. >> here is a man who builds a business to profit off other people's pain. donald trump wants to be commander in chief but he's only qualified to be fraud-ster in chief, you bet. trump thought at trump u he picked on people weak and defenseless but now they are striking back and they have sued the thin skinned racist bully. >> all right. full on attack dog mode here, cate. when you look at that, would she better be served as a clinton surrogate or clinton's vp?
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>> that's a great question. with the conversation over the past week shifting to terrorism, foreign policy, and kind of global events, i think maybe that could sway, you know, turn the conversation a bit and influence the decision but either way, elizabeth warren will be a really the top su surroga surrogate, one of the top this cycle. we've seen her play an effective role as a surrogate for democratic candidates. in 2014 she campaigned across the country and particularly in places where other democrats couldn't really campaign in places like kentucky and west virginia. really driving home the populace message that we've seen resonate so well this cycle among both parties and so she'll be a big influence and particularly going after donald trump, she's proved to be that attack dog against him and especially on economic issues. so whether she's on the ticket or not, i think you'll see a lot of her out there on the campaign
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trail campaigning for clinton but also really against donald trump and can play the role of a bridge builder between, you know, bernie sanders supporters and clinton supporters. >> all right. we have to turn to tomorrow's gun vote with the total of four competing propels on both sides. none of them expected to pass. are you seeing anything in the measures as we reflect and remember it, those lives lost one week later after this shooting but are we seeing anything that might have prevented the shooter from getting a weapon? >> i think one of the issues being looked at is people, individuals on the terror watch list and preventing them from purchasing firearms and this was a debate held in the senate and the same competing measures voted down in december will come up tomorrow and again, as you mention are not expected to pass. i think there are senators who want to move beyond tomorrow's
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vote on monday and try and craft some sort of compromise on how to even potentially narrow the terror watch list and come up with a more select list of individuals barred from purchasing firearms because that is an area where both sides agree but really the nra and republicans said the broader terror watch list, a lot of individuals there mistakenly so there should be a compromise where you can look at the no-fly list and most lawmakers and the public would agree if you're not able to board an airplane, you certainly should not be able to purchase a gun. we'll see if gun control since the sandy hook massacre. i don't think anybody is holding their breath for a significant breakthrough. >> we saw that after san bernardino, as well. thank you so much for being with me this sunday. >> thank you. >> thank you. was radicalization the real motive? why a new report is raising
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the investigation is on going but we know the killer was an angry and disturbed individual that took in extremist information and propaganda over the internet and became radicalized. during his killing spree he pledged allegiance to isil. >> president obama speaking yesterday on the investigation into the gunman who carried out the massacre in orlando one week ago today. i want to bring in executive director and msnbc terrorism analyst. malcolm, great to have you with me as we dive into this. you heard what the president said saying the gunman became radicalized but the npr and
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report siting investigators that show little or possibly even no proof that the shooter was radicalized. they write this, investigator haves been struck how closely mateen's biography associates to typical mass shooters. could that be the case, could it be in essence hate or maybe mental illness driving him? >> i think all those factors come into play. based on the data that i've seen and we have a lot of information from sources, first off, it appears that there is some psycho sexual dynamic. he frequented clubs and people assumed he was gay but having a conflict in his family about his sexuality, his wives, he was abusive. all of these things could come from the profile of someone that would be a serial killer but doesn't mean he didn't go out and seek that data from these
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radical groups or isis or watch jihad videos to justify behavior. >> from an intelligence standpoint, hate, factors that come into play and maybe some radicalization from an intelligence standpoint, how can that be followed and signs we know were there not be missed down the road? >> well, from an intelligence standpoint, you can't. unfortuna unfortunately, this is going to be a component. the idea for isis and al qaeda to is reach out to people to flip the switch that can make them feel they are something greater than themselves. the motto of isis anybody, anywhere, any time, any one, anyway. that being said, this is why we have the san bernardino killers,
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some signs leading up to that and classic signs moving then selves and their family and increased orthodox over a period of time. this guy had none of those things, but he used isis, i believe, in the end it will come out he used isis as a last-minute excuse to justify whatever he -- whatever mental defect he had. >> given the fact you say that and you always say you can't, intelligence can't track those signs, how do you reassure the public and americans that there may not be somebody out there right now with the same mentality and same intentions of doing harm like we saw in orlando? >> i mean, you're placing this exactly in the category of all the other shooters that we have in the united states. something flips into -- some switch flips in their heat. th if isis hadn't existed two years ago, had the giant online media two years ago, this guy would have been another workplace killer. we saw that.
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the case of the san bernardino shooters is very strange how they went back to the office to carry out a terrorist attack instead of going to some mass venue. these are things in the united states we're almost unique in the way people radicalize and carry out attacks almost completely unlike europe. >> that's the scary point, malcolm, frankly. talk about how it's beneficial to both the killers saying he wants to basically say and get the fame from terror groups and isis can go on and say look what our, you know, soldiers are out there doing very quickly. >> look at the -- to a certain extend, we're come this. it's an extension from al qaeda, now they happen to harness the power of the internet, which harnesses the power of the media and anyone can be a member of isis and carry out on attack and
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up to isis whether they want to value kate. >> a lot to consider when you put in the factors that come into play of why, why and what was the motivation. malcolm, as always, so good to have your perspective this morning. new campaign ads show the softer side of hillary clinton and happening now. i am proud of you, my man. making simple, smart cash back choices... with quicksilver from capital one. you're earning unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere. like on that new laptop. quicksilver keeps things simple, gary. and smart, like you! and i like that. i guess i am pretty smart. don't let that go to your head, gary. what's in your wlet?
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♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ happening now, a dangerous heat wave burns out west. a four--day-old wildfire is 45% contained but raising temperatures could hamper further efforts to keep it under control. leeann gragg is in california. what's the situation there now. >> reporter: francis, what is different today is that it's going to be hotter and drier as the heat wave moves across the united states, some areas seeing temperatures of 120 degrees so battling that. what that means is that even if
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an ember escapes the containment zone and goes to an area that hasn't burned, it could start a fire with 90 to 100% chance. they are dealing with that and winds, red flag warnings infect tonight through tuesday morning. conditions are conducive for fire. winds gusting more than 40 miles an hour down the mountain but blowing in an area that burned. the containment at 45%. 300 homes and ranches remain threatened. they are hoping for full containment later this week but that depends on what happens weather, francis. >> leeann gregg thank you. one week later, the healing process and a look at the memorials in that city and around the world. ♪
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orlando is remembering the events of one week ago today that led to the deaths of 49 people that made it the worst mass shooting in history. a memorial has been set up where the lives were lost last sunday. and take a look at this, a live look at the a service underway. this is discovery church a few blocks from the club. the non-denomination church is providing free funerals. loretta lynch said the fbi will releaease transcripts of the gunman and authorities during the standoff. >> he talked about pledges of allegiance to the terrorist group and motivation why he was claiming at that time he was commit thing horrific act. he talked about american policy in someways, the reason we'll limit the transcripts is to avoid revictimizing but will contain the substance of his conversations and there were three conversations between this killer and negotiators.
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>> meanwhile, other cities are sending orlando a message of love and support. the memorial outside the stone wall in continues to grow. a crowd gathered there saturday night. and in berlin, the gate was lit into the colors of the rainbow flag and many carried signs that read we are orlando. >> there are questions about the gunman in last sunday's massacre. omar mateen was on the fbi terror watch list. he was removed after investigators couldn't prove any firm links. i want to bring in michael hurst titled why didn't the fbi stop omar mateen. michael, thanks for your time this morning. in that article, perhaps the toughest thing to explain about the worst mass shooting in history is how this man interviewed three times by the fbi bought unnoticed an entire arsenal and gunning down more than 100 people. that fact along with the other
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possible misflags, a list that seems to be getting longer. how do officials explain this to family members and loved ones asking them directly? >> the fbi has to have a reckoning themself. the evidence is they are behind the curve when it comes to the sort of new type of radicalization of lone wolf terrorists. you noted the fbi dropped the mateen case after it determined he had no links to organized terror groups, something similar happened in the case of tamerlan tsarnaev. in both cases you had radicalization without any links, the criteria the fbi used to determine whether someone is dangerous potential terrorist. so talking to a number of law enforcement officials over the last week who say look, the fbi really has to try to get ahead
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of the curve here and learn what it is that drives these loan wolf terrorists. >> your saying that's what is needed from the burro but they are defending actions. james comey defended it. here is more of what he said. >> we will continue to look forward in this investigation and backward. we will leave no stone unturned and we will work all day and all night to understand the path to that terrible night. we're also going to look hard at our work to see whether there is something we should have done differently. so far the honest answer is i don't think so. i don't see anything in reviewing our work our agents should have done differently. >> it's that last line that really strikes a lot of people, michael, could have done anything differently. is there general agreement on that? >> not within the law enforcement community, no. it's interesting to note the fbi itself in the last few years has begun to change the way it assesses potential terrorists
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looking at behavior aspects, incredibly disturbing history of omar mateen including sympathetic comments about terrorists which means that he doesn't have to belong to a terrorist group. the fbi is opening up community out reach. this is very recent and interesting to note at the same time it was interviewing omar mateen and tamerlan tsarnaev, it doesn't have these procedures in place. the fib is starting it but too slow. >> what can happen when you have question of motive, whether it's true radicalization or self-r self-radicalization on his part or factoring in hate for a certain group or self-hate with factors that may come into play? >> the fbi developed into a pilot-like program, shared responsibility committees, which they do out reach to american
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muslim communities and bring in post tors, imams. if someone says troubling things, they try to intervene. the secret service interestingly has done this for decades and, you know, they don't always arrest every suspect who might have threatened the president but they will keep an eye on him and try to intervene in the case. >> you write about that. how can that be paralleled in using some tactics of the secret service, what can be used as far as keeping the public safe from those like this shooter in orlando? >> well, again, if you have someone like omar mateen and again, this is not to say that omar mateen could have been absolutely prevented from committing violence but the interview -- there were three separate interviews with the fbi over a period of a couple years. there was incidents in schools of violence. there were statements sympathetic to terrorists and
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the 9/11 hijackers that should have created a brief on this guy and again, there's been the sense you arrest someone after they committed an act or let them go. that's not necessarily the case. you don't have to necessary violet civil liberty ifs you launch an investigation and bring in the pastors, the -- >> that's a fine line and it could be some will argue. >> it -- you know, it could be. it's somewhat controversial and in the era of the lone wolf terrorist, we have three horrific data points starting with the boston marathon bombers, omar mateen in the last two cases, they had omar mateen and the san bernardino shooters were parents. the reason they stopped talking to omar mateen is someone said he settled down and had a children. as we figured out in that case and san bernardino case, that didn't matter. the fbi needs to prod to move more into this area even if they
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don't arrest, they need to bring in the community to intervene, to bring in psychological counseling and educators and neighbors to create a system where people can call and notify the fbi of someone who is a troubling individual without ne necessarily thinking that could mean an arrest or intervention. >> hopefully efforts, who could be next? who is making a plot now that the new plans in place by the fbi can make that difference. thank you so much. >> thank you. in addition to the outpouring of love in the orlando community following last sunday's attack, financial support is equally generous. the largest of the online fundraisers has received almost $5.5 million in donations. about 110,000 have contributed to the effort. the city has established the one orlando fund that received large corporate contributions that totalled $1.68 million.
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new reaction from house speaker paul ryan. fellow lawmakers, he's telling them to vote their conscience. ryan addressed "the washington post" report on a push by some delegates to stop trump from getting the nomination. >> the last thing i want to see happen is another democrat in the white house. i want to see a strong majority in the house and senate and the way to achieve those goals is to have more unified party than a disunified party. the voters picked him. that's the choice they made. we -- what can i control? that's not something i can control. i'm not going to tell the delegates how to do their jobs because i am chair of the convention. >> for more on today's top political stories. le let's bring in former season your advisor to the 2008 campaign. doug will bring in the latest polling averages that show hillary clinton nearly six points ahead of donald trump where three weeks ago they were less than a point apart.
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so what do you attribute that to? >> i think as people really get a handle on what trump is about, we'll see his negative numbers probably couldn't go lower than they are and hillary is starting to articulate, i think breaking through better now her vision of what kind of country she would lead us to be and you've seen a new ad coming out today which asks exactly that question. what kind of country do we want to be and really makes the case that democrats believe that we respect the dignity of every person and believe everybody has something valuable to contribute when we work together, there is nothing we can't establish and it draws such a stark contrast what trump and republicans are doing with demonizing people and dividing americans against each other and dragging us backwards rather than forward. it's becoming clear what a stark contrast we have here. >> if you were advising here right now, would you say to stay on point with that message or does she need to add to it?
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>> i think stay on point with that. the -- i'd love to see a transition where we talk about the future of this country, rather than talking about donald trump and the latest crazy thing he has said or done. i think really important point that secretary clinton is do we want to be dangerously divided when law enforcement says we're stronger and stand united and together to counter the threats we face. >> i'm glad you brought up the ad. there is a major ad reportedly upwards of eight figures, i want to play one of these ads and we'll talk about it. >> after law school, she could have gone to a big law firm. instead, she went to work for the children's defense fund. helping get disabled kids out of the shadows and into their local schools. when she got to arkansas, she
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brought reform to some of the poorest schools in the nation. through the years, there have been challenges, setbacks, but for hillary, one thing has never changed, helping children has been a cause of her life. >> so, you know, it's kind of a soft touch there, but do you think that would be more effective especially against donald trump as you say, she's been taking the high road and not going down in the mud with the attacks against him and who is the target of the ads? >> this ad is a side of hillary clinton that a lot of people don't know. i certainly got to see it working closely with her and she really is moved by helping every child reach their god given potential, as she puts and it it's not just a talking point. this is her career and dedicated her life to. i think with a lot of voters, unfortunately, have been subjected to this just barrage of lies and filthy attacks from republicans over the years and
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has obscured this side of the story. so i think there is a lot of people who need to hear that kind of story and that's aimed at folks who are -- and i bet more even independents and republicans who want nothing to do with dangerous donald trump and want to think more about hillary clinton and i think people, more people are becoming open to thinking about voting for her who might not have otherwise and this is the story they need to hear. >> that may include bernie sanders supporters. some supporters practicing. buzz feed is describing it is how to march, how to follow a chant and defy police orders to disburse by sitting and locking arms in a human chain and conduct themselves when the police stepped in and physically remove them. could the sanders camp pose a threat to hillary clinton with this type of action? >> i don't think it's going to pose a threat to hillary clinton. i'm assuming they are talking
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about the kind of protests that take place outside the convention hall. i think most democrats want to move forward from the primary. senator sanders and his supporters are part of the democratic family. there is more that unites us than divides us. that's what we need to focus on. democrats agree we want this country and government and e economy to work for everyone. not just the special interest. that is what unites us and separates us and that's what we need to be focused on now and i think you'll see more and more grass roots, bernie sanders supporteri eers doing this. >> thank you. >> thank you. political promise, what the l presidential nominee says he'll not be doing during his campaign. it's more than a network.
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the massacre in orlando has reordered priorities among americans. in a new nbc news/survey monkey online poll, 24% of americans said terrorism is the issue that matters most to them.
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that is up from a week ago. >> i hate to say it again but it's going to happen again and again and again. >> as president i will make identifying and stopping lone wolves a top priority. >> terrorism is top of mind for the presidential candidates and voters, but the new poll shows republicans are overall more concerned than democrats. 35% of republicans named terrorism the top issue while 18% of democrats think so. the issue of jobs and economy ranks first among democrats and independents, but second among republicans. and on saturday, donald trump made a campaign stop in phoenix where he hit back hard at his democratic opponents, calling bernie sanders crazy as a bed bug and john kerry an idiot. trump, however, had some kinder words for himself. >> i've been on the cover of "time" magazine so many times and the cover of everything. i feel like a supermodel except like times ten, okay. it's true. i'm a supermodel. i'm on the cover of these magazines. i'm on the cover of the biggest
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magazines, i don't even know about it, i can't even read the story because if i did, i wouldn't get any work done. i've never seen anything like it. and it's not about me. i'm doing a good job as a messenger, but i'm a messenger. >> i want to bring in amy holmes, former speechwriter for bill friss. good to have you with me this morning. >> good morning. >> we'll skip over the whole supermodel. >> can we establish he is not a supermodel. >> as we all know, he is not. but when he uses those words, a messenger, what is his message and who is it for? >> well, he is speaking for and to a lot of disenfranchised voters who are feeling, you know, deep and intense economic insecurity. his campaign really, you know, sort of launched in his views, his positions -- position on illegal immigration. that's when donald trump really took off. but unfortunately his message is not speaking to a wide enough audience for his candidacy right
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now. and you can see that he only has 37% approval ratings. that certainly is not going to get him in the oval office. >> i have to ask you one week after the orlando shooting where we could have seen him in his presidential approach to that horrific tragedy, politico surveyed a group of swing state strategists and party operatives about his response to orlando. nearly half of republicans describe d it as poor. how much of a dent will trump's behavior this past week make on his campaign going forward or will it at all? >> well, we've already seen that it has harmed him at least in polling and more and more republicans who are trying to distance themselves. paul ryan, the house speaker, now telling republicans, you know, vote your conscience, go your own way, which is a big green light to head for the exit. >> do you think it was because of orlando? was it because of this time where we could have seen that part of donald trump that maybe we would see or his supporters would see as president? >> i think it's, you know, an
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accumulation of a number of missteps by the donald trump campaign. by donald trump himself. and even that clip that you played where he, you know, rather curiously called himself a supermodel, it was about -- even though he said i'm the messenger, he makes it about him instead of the issues and instead of his solutions. so, for example, when he was attacking the federal judge for being of mexican descent, that was getting the republican party off message and donald trump off message because he just keeps talking about himself instead of what he would do as president of the united states. >> we've seen that as well when he's threatening to self fund and keep the money that he's raising, instead of passing it on. but let's talk about the electoral map here. are there states that mitt romney lost four years ago that trump could win, if there's a chance for that, and even vice versa? >> it doesn't look like it at this point. in fact hillary clinton is doing well in states that should be
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toss-up states. there's a strange theory going around that if donald trump were to convince some of his supporters to actually vote for gary johnson, where his margin could make the difference and turn that state red, turn it republican, that then you could deny hillary clinton the presidency. this is wild, this is farfetched. donald trump initially said that he was going to campaign in those 15 purple states where campaigning might make a difference, but because of how narrow his appeal has been thus far, he's been needing to raise money in red states. that's where he can sort of clean up and fill up his coffers. so he's even been sort of pushed off strategy by his own remarks. >> when you talk about a third-party candidate, there's a new group called better for america that's set out to find a third-party candidate as an alternative to not just trump but hillary as well. >> you just ran a clip of gary
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johnson, who i have to say i'm so relieved to know that he wouldn't smoke a doobie if he were president of the united states. >> just so you can rest assured. >> but he's doing well. polling showing him with 10%. that is more than enough to make a difference in a hillary-donald trump matchup this fall to toss it to one person or the other. so it's been noted by many people up to this point that for a lot of voters, it's just really who is the lesser of two evils. >> all right. >> if i could interrupt really quickly, i want to wish my dad a very happy father's day. >> my husband, my dad up above, to all of us, thank you very much. amy holmes, as always, good to have you here. that will do it for this hour of "msnbc live." "a.m. joy" is up next. alex witt will be here at noon eastern here on msnbc live. happy father's day to you out there. designing cars for crash survival, subaru has developed our most revolutionary feature yet.
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