>> only a few more weeks of playing the vp game on this show. thank you for joining us for tonight's what do you make of this money situation between the two candidates? campaign in crisis. let's play hardball. good evening. tonight is the trump campaign in crisis? yesterday trump fired his campaign manager, a slew of new polls shows him falling behind hillary clinton anywhere from five to eight points nationally, and today, we're learning just how far behind trump is in terms of money. trump started the month with just $1.3 million cash on hand. clinton has $42.5 million. a huge gap there.

trump has fewer than 70 paid staff, total. clinton has ten times that number. trump has spent $0, no money, not a single cent in battleground states. clinton has poured in over $20 million. trump down played concerns about his finances. >> i understand money better than anybody. i understand it far better than hillary and i'm way up on the economy when it comes to questions on the economy. we have a hart, i'm having more difficulty, frankly, with some of the people in the party than i am with the democrats. they don't want to come on. they will probably eventually come on. honestly, if they don't, it's just fine. i can win it either way. i'll do what i did in the primaries. i spent $55 million of my own money to win the primaries.

55. that's a lot of money. i may do that in the general election. i have a lot of cash. i may do it again in the general election. >> as donald trump on the today show this morning. the new york times writing donald trump enters the general election campaign laboring under the worst financial and organizational disadvantage of any major party nominee in recent history placing his candidacy and his party in political peril. nick, you wrote the story, you looked at the numbers. you say donald trump is in the worst shape of anyone come through this primary process. paint a picture of what we're looking at. what does this mean?

>> it's not campaign right now. it's more like a traveling production of hamilton. it's a crew to run the stage and people back home to run the accounts. he doesn't have people on the ground in these states. he doesn't have offices if places like nevada and new hampshire. he's way behind. you have money in the accounts you would see in competitive race for the house of representative, not the white house. >> we see the mega rallies. he pays to rent out arenas. he gives the speech and that's what this campaign is. it's what we see on tv. his rallies are his campaign. >> it got him through the primary. he got the free media, earned media. he had a message that penetrated, that got through the bubble that crowded out dozen contenders.

>> you look at numbers and say this is not what you're supposed to compete with. he just went through the primary process doing this and winning. how do you look at it? >> i look at it both ways. i appreciate what nick spelled out. it's more of a problem with the party than donald trump in some respects. he has done this very differently. he is thinking i spent the least amount of money to get where i am. even after the worst four weeks i could have, i'm still only down by the most eight points. his logic in looking at this is not in the same space that traditional operatives and campaign officials and personnel would be.

he's looking at this through a very different lens. the question for the party is how do you marry up the two where you put in place the underpinnings. you'll need that for the senate races. >> nick, let me ask you about that. i've been wondering about this. if we a had this conversation a year about, if you describe the campaign that donald trump is about to run, all the experts would say there's no way to win the republican nomination running this kind of campaign. he went out there and he did it. we repeat, you need money for voter out reach and get people to the polls. is that overrated? >> it could be, but i don't

think it is. he's polling close to the national floor. that 45% of the vote is yours. it's the next 5% that's hard to get. it's regular voters and different voters, people who might vote in november. it costs a lot of money to find them and persuade them. it costs hundreds of millions of dollars to do well and he does not have it. >> the campaign to dump trump at the republican convention next month seems to be gaining at least a little bit of traction according to the washington post, nearly 400 delegates have signed on. this saves the party and we win the election. everything has to go through birthing pains to birth something great.

we're going to go through the trauma of the birthing pains, but the reward will be worth it. today, wisconsin governor scott walker said he agreed with allowing delegates to vote their conscience at their convention. walker said, quote, i think historically, not just this year, delegates are and should be able to vote the way they see fit. in a new cnn poll shows many republicans may agree with that. 51% say they would prefer to see trump remain the candidate. 48% say they want someone else. i hear you laughing. what they're saying is the delegates right now are bound to vote for trump. some are still bound to vote for cruz. they're saying change the rules. let the delegates show up and vote for any name they want.

>> are they high? seriously, just stop it. 48% of them want someone else, then give us that someone else. they can't even agree who that it. let's focus on putting on the best possible convention we can to elevate donald trump to a competitive position to win this november. having said that, the rnc, reince priebus, the last thing they need is a revolt among delegates on the floor during that week. that's not how this plays out. you think donald trump will sit by and let you do this. take the nomination away from the guy who has the most electoral votes than any other republican in the party. the reality check has been done. this is where we are. now the question is how do we support the party and the nominee and how do we get this train out of stalled position it's in and moving forward to victory this fall. that's going to be hard enough

without all the other crazy added on top of it. >> the potential for the people who want to stop donald trump still make it difficult for him to martha week in cleveland. that seems real enough. >> the obstacles are not technical or legal. the rules committee could come out there and change the rules. as the weaknesses of the campaign become apparent and failed to be fixed, it's more imperative to reconsider trump. these are delegates where the republican party. these are not necessarily trump loyalists or trump boosters. they have not signed a suicide pact with donald trump. they want a winning candidate. >> who could it be? that's what trumped up the never trump movement. >> who's that person? >> the hard part of never trump

is never any candidate doesn't really work unless there's an alternative. i think they have to have a poll to rally around. it's got to be a person. >> if you're in this congressional district, vote for kasich. if you're in the third one, put a weird sign on the ballot. it made no sense. >> it made no sense, and it still makes no sense. why don't we hear themselves. why don't we hear their voice articulating out in the political desert for all to come and follow them. that person doesn't exist because that person can't defeat trump on the floor at the convention. >> if donald trump starts to look stronger, i'm sure that will bring about a lot more unity.

>> here's the rub. i think this will be interesting to watch. the battle between corey and paul manafort was settled. donald trump settled it yesterday. he's making a conscience decision to move his campaign less from the let trump be trump mind set into this idea that i need the structure. i need the organization. i need to be more of a presidential candidate. that will now be the rest of this campaign. if he's successful and the numbers begin to settle, which they well could, you'll hear and see something different. it starts and ends with donald trump. he started that decision yesterday. let's see how it plays out. >> thanks for the time. coming up, hillary clinton going on the offensive against donald trump.

she's calling him the king king of debt. can she cripple trump before and after he regains his footing or can he with stand the criticism and the path to victory? brand new numbers from the biggest battleground states showing how tight the race is. trump needing to turn blue states red if he wants any chance of winning. there's a couple of surprises there. plus, this tuesday evening the hardball round table is coming here to tell me something i don't know. that's the easiest assignment in the world. this is hardball, the place for politics.nt why pause to take a pill? or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction and the urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas for pulmonary hypertension, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess.

side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis and a $200 savings card. there's some new numbers out on what characteristics hillary clinton and donald trump has in the mind of voters. 47% say trump, 43% say hillary clinton when it comes to who has the temperament, clinton has a big advantage.

as to who is more honest and trustworthy, trump is ahead there. 45 to 37%. be right back.

you might think because he's spent his life as a businessman, he'd be better prepared to handle the economy. well, it turns out he's dangerous there too. just like he shouldn't have his finger on the button, he shouldn't have his hands on our economy. when i was working on this speech, i had the same experience i had when i was working on the speemp i gave about foreign policy in national security. i'd have my researchers and speech writers send me information, and then i'd say really. he really said that.

>> just a few weeks afterher tough critique of donald trump's foreign policy, hillary clinton is out swinging again. the all important swing state of ohio, hillary clinton tor into trump's economic plan and his business record. take a look. >> liberals and conservatives say trump's ideas would be disasterous. the chamber of commerce and labor unions, mitt romney and elizabeth warren, economists on the right and the left and the center all agree trump would throw us back into recession. alexander hamilton would be rolling in his grave. maybe donald feels differently because he made a fortune filing bankruptcies and stiffing his creditors. there is a difference between getting tough on trade and recklessly starting trade wars.

trump ties are made in china. trump suits in mexico, trump funture in turkey. trump picture frames in india. trump bar ware in slovenia. i'd love for him to explain how all that fits with his talk about america first. >> senator, thanks for joining us. the topic today is the economy. we have a new poll out today. this jumped out at me. the question was asked who do you trust more on the economy. trump, 51, clinton, 43. does that say more to you about donald trump or hillary clinton? >> i think, first of all, as you know, being the math guy that you are, there are other polls that we've seen when you look at the pure number, hillary has been gaining. she's five, six numbers ahead nationally. i think this is the beginning of

this campaign from her perspective. this is a time to lay out her plans which she'll be doing tomorrow. what's key that she did today, she made it clear, $30 trillion this debt he would add in just 20 years. how he has called himself the king of debt. he doesn't respect the full faith and credit of america. he said he negotiated and even cited ronald reagan who said our reliability and credibility are key to our economy. she moved onto his tax policies. gets to his very credibility. when you look at those numbers it's important for people to understand if he says he's going to do to america what he's done to companies, he's laid off

workers. he's run companies into the ground. he's put companies in bankruptcy. >> you're correct. overall the polls show hillary clinton leading now. she's opened up a pretty steady lead. the question i showed was specifically about the economy. i guess i'm curious, when people look at hillary clinton, she's got a pretty long record on the economy at this point. 16 years ago she got elected. this is why she laid out the criticism that's been supported by democratic and republican economists. when people hear the facts and he's been involved, as she pointed out today, 3500 lawsuits in 35 years, his opposition to

any kind of immigration reform that would spur innovation that's made this country great, you look at facts and the facts are on her side. i think she did a great job just as she did with foreign policy in laying out what a donald trump presidency. he's been careless and that's his choice, but now it's america's choice. americans will respond. >> all right. senator from minnesota, thanks for the time. >> thank you. with me now is harold ford and eugene robinson.

i would assume she's winning on the economy and she's not. >> it speaks to the anxiety and unrest. bernie sanders success in the democratic primary also. you could draw some comparisons. people are looking for something different that will shake up the system and go after big business in a way to force them to give and treat middle class workers and every day workers and give them fair shake. you have to lay out what you would do. you have to talk about the people he's laid off. how do you make america great

again if everything you're selling to america is made outside this country. you call him a hypocrite and ask him how can you oust people from their homes during the housing crisis. how do you not pay people fair wages? how do you lay people off during tough times? when you say all these things about making america great again and you understand the art of the deal, what you understand is how to make yourself more money. >> they made mitt romney look out of touch with the working man. when you look at mitt romney and donald trump's personality, does it stick? >> i think the situations are

different. i think what hillary clinton is doing is trying to go at his strength. as you noted from the poll, he's rated higher. people perceive him as a good businessman. it's a smart thing for her to do at this campaign. i do agree with harold that at some point, i think as soon as she can, she also needs to give a more optimistic forward looking vision of what she will do with the economy and how she sees the economy developing and how she sees americans lives getting better. >> what about this idea, too, when you look at these polls. she's ahead right now.

>> he's an outsider. here's a guy who was the establishment. he's running a campaign where not only is he outside of the establishment, he's trusted, it seems in some ways, as a person who can shake the whole thing up. i think mrs. clinton has to recognize that. some of the things we say against him, and i'm a democrat, will be taken seriously. there's a number of people that say, i'm willing to shake it all up if that's him. you got to take him apart. at the same time, i didn't use the word, gene, used the right word. you have to portray optimism high pressure trump doesn't sound optimistic. you have to make him out to be the person that will only do things to help donald trump.

that's challenge. i think mrs. clinton is up to it but the rhetoric and narrative has to be more around that and align itself with that. today was a good start. >> tables are going to turn a little bit. this sort of back and forth. attack versus attack. that's a style of campaigning. that's the only way trump knows how to campaign. he's quite good at it. look at what he did in the primaries. she has to do that but she has the throw in the twist. that's something donald trump

can't do. he's the angry president. the angry candidate, the optimistic candidate. >> her husband created 23 million jobs as president, she's got to show how many jobs he's not created. how many jobs have been lost. the obama campaign did a splendid and overwhelmingly splendid job of showing mitt romney to be the businessman that's uncaring to every day workers. that's the kind of connection you have to make if you're mrs. clinton. it's got to get sharper and better. if there's anyone to understand the back and forth, the takes in the campaigning has done well with it, it's donald trump. that's not the game you want to play. >> harold ford, thanks for the time. still ahead, the rust belt battle. donald trump wants to run the table in the industrial states hoping to turn some long time blue bastians red.

we'll show you where he substantiates. this is hardball, the place for politics.

all right. welcome back to "hardball." we've talked about what a rough few weeks it's been for donald trump's campaign. new leadership taking charge in the campaign. what's the damage? let's look at three key battleground states. before i show you the number, let's put this in perspective. if you took the 2012 electoral map, barack obama versus mitt romney. if donald trump could win oohio, pennsylvania and florida and everything else stays the same, that would be enough. he would be president. with that in mind, let's check in.

the state of florida, new poll out there today. hillary clinton opening up an 8-point lead. this is a state that barack obama barely carried four years ago. the margin was about a point. it's exploded to eight points. if you want to say it's been a bad few weeks for donald trump, how bad, your answer is florida. he's now close to ten points behind in an absolutely huge, pretty much must win state for him. at the same time, remember, we said florida, pennsylvania, ohio . the two industrial states there. ohio still dead even. clinton, 40, trump, 40. barack obama won this state narrowly. hillary clinton clinging to a one-point lead there. there is some good news for trump. pennsylvania and ohio, he is competitive right now.

the bad news for trump, he has fallen far behind in florida. florida with a big, big number of electoral votes there. that's the state he needs if he's going to get 270. some battleground polling updates for you today. look, the florida numbers are really, really bad for him. at the same time you look in the tril midwest and you say he's got some chances there. >> it's really his only chance. we know he's done best among blue collar. that's his base. he has to do well there. it's hard to see how he gets to 270.

>> jonathan, it's funny. every four years you have to wait until the day after the election to find out what the big story of the election was. when i look at numbers like that, it's one poll. maybe we'll see other numbers that tell a different story. i start to say, different parts of the country may be reacting very differently to these candidates in this campaign than they have in the past. >> the industrial midwest and pennsylvania is where he wins the election. this is a wake up call for democrats who in the last few weeks because trump has been doing so badly have been getting pretty confident that hillary will win. this is very likely to be a close election.

the beating he's taken that he's even in this very reputable poll is very significant. >> beth, what about the idea that the trump campaign, wefr heard this so many times, it's a cliche to say it. it was interesting today after the shake up, after the campaign manger was out. the trump campaign responded today like a major general election campaign would. something we haven't seen before. >> they put out some opposition research against her. think about the things we didn't see. we didn't see a whole raft of surrogates going out on twitter to talk about the speech. he doesn't have the similar apparatus to reenforce the message. the question is whether he will debunk her on policy or call clin ton a rapist.

>> i think he'll go right at the clintons. that's red meat for his base. the people who are for him are showing no signs of people peeled off of him. he can basically say anything and they are sticking with him. the questions whether he can grow, grow that base and the way for him to do that is twofold. keep the heat on the clintons and he will go personal. also to exploit the lead he has on the economy. a lot of voters are sayinge

creates jobs. maybe he's been bankrupt. he creates jobs, hillary clinton has not. she started today to go back at that. i'm not sure there was a clear take away from that speech. trump is on record saying wages are too high. the clinton campaign needs to make sure that every voter knows he said that. they're not quite focused enough. >> thanks. coming up, back to our big story of the night. clinton on the attack. trump's campaign going for an overall. the round table is coming here. you're watching hardball, the place for politics.

she's getting her money from the wall street guys and all the special interests. i'll be honest, i've never raised money before for this. i've never done it before. i think i would be very good at it. as far as i'm concerned, i'd be happy to sell -- >> are you going to continue to sell? >> i may. >> that was donald trump on abc

news talking about the possibility of self funding his campaign through november. for his part, trump is trying to hit the reset button on his campaign after that major shake up yesterday. trump told a group of faith leaders that clinton's religious faith deserves more scrutiny. >> she's been in the public eye for years and years, and yet, there's nothing out there. there's like nothing out there. it's going to be an extension of obama but it's going to be worse because with obama, you had your guard up. with hillary, you don't. it's going to be worse.

>> republican strategist, she attended that trump meeting we were showing you earlier today. tara is a democratic strategist and a former contestant on the apprentice. we just played that clip. that's getting a lot of attention. nobody is quite clear where this came from or what he wants. it sounds like he's calling into question her faith. how did you hear that? >> i think it's not proper in any context when you don't know what's in their heart. the meeting today he had with a thousands evangelicals was the perfect step to take in securing that vote. he spoke from his heart. they needed to see the man. >> was a he talking about his own faith? >> he talked about the importance of supporting israel. he talked about his commitment to nominating conservative supreme court justices and protect civil liberties. a lot of those people in that room, they will vote for him. in terms of right now, in terms of showing their full support, they have leverage by with holding their full support of their congregations or organizations by making sure he follows through.

those people will vote for him. the key now is for donald trump to continue making strides like he made today and confirming that what he is saying today, he will do as president. >> what about you? how did you walk into that room and how did you walk out? >> he had speech last week where he talked about issues that are important. these are things he's saying. he needs to follow through and as we move further down the general election calendar, there needs to be reassurance that's what he will do. the people in that room need to see it. he knows they will support him

but in terms of knocking on doors, making phone calls, they need to see more of what they saw today. >> republicans are supposed to. does he get close to 80% or stuck down in the high 60s. >> they don't have a lot of deep ties to the churches and don't have deep ties to the traditional christian right which overwhelmingly lined up behind ted cruz. the rise of donald trump has shown that religious right, which was such a powerful force in our politics ever since ronald reagan has lost a lot of its influence and is in an abject position. >> you're talking about that division there, the rank and

file. i'm talking about people who would say they are evangelical again but who maybe don't go do church or every other month or something. for them, evangelical is a proxy for a broader conservative identity. the people for whom have kind of a very intense theological, kind of theological background, those people overwhelmingly lined up behind ted cruz. they are grudgingly going over to donald trump. he told them don't pray for your leaders. he said defy the bible and focus on my grandisement. he said pray for me to get elected. they're not really in any position to with hold their support because they hate

hillary clinton that much. like i said, it's how abject, the rise of donald trump has left the leaders of the old religious right. >> you have seen him up close and personal in way that none of us have. imagine him talking to a skeptical audience. how is he trying to make the sale? >> clearly, he was trying to distract from his own personal affiliation because there's no personal religious affiliation which is why he spent a lot of time talking about hillary clinton versus talking about himself personally. he cannot, quote scripture. i prayed, some of my cast mates prayed together. donald trump was never part of that. he has to talk about, you laid out a laundry list and they were all policy prescriptions that he's saying he's going to back. none of them were personal because when he did try to speak personally, he said two

corinthians. he was probably prepped and scripted and stayed what he could talk about, not anything personal because it's not there. >> we have to squeeze in a break. we're going to look at the convention fever. people coming down with cases of that these days. could we see some star power this year like we've never seen before. this is hardball, the place for politics.

hillary clinton went after donald trump on his economic plan and business he's responded here hearse on abc. >> hillary clinton said of you just today that just like he shouldn't have his finger on the button, he shouldn't have his hands on our economy. were you watching? >> i was not watching. i heard what she said. i built a great, great company. it's worth tens -- it's just a very, very valuable company. some of the greatest assets in the world, including with what we're sitting on right here. she has a bad temperament. she would do so badly with the economy. 525,608 minutes 525,000 moments oh dear >> we're back.

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no you don't need to adjust your tv. we just took a quick trip back to time to watch the cast of the blockbuster musical "rent" perform at bill clinton's second nomination, democratic convention, 1996. democrats looking to do the same thing this year. politico reports democratic operatives have reached out to "hamilton" creator lin-manuel miranda to see if he would perform for their convention, according to political only one of a-list celebrities the dnc has reach out to do jazz up their week in philly. the democratic convention kicks off three days after the republicans wrap up in cleveland, an event donald trump has promised will deliver a more showbiz feel than in years past.

the roundtable's back with us. alice, michelle, tara. this is a quadrennial dilemma. three, four nights of television, there's no real drama at these conventions anymore. >> well -- >> well, yeah, make. >> we don't know about this year. >> for the democrats, let's take the democrats here. bernie sanders and his folks show and up want to stir up trouble, maybe that. chances are not going to be that dramatic. what do they do? >> i think "hamilton" a great start, i hope it happens, i'm psyched. i think that first of all, from just a pure effective standpoint, i would like to see hillary clinton show a little bit more of hillary clinton, who she really is. i'd like to see her take the stage and just take a little bit of -- just kind of step out of a little bit of the script. >> people have been saying this for about 20 years. >> i know. but let me say this. if you're going to do it, this

is the election cycle to do it. i'd like to see her take some big risks at this convention. >> what do you think? >> i think clearly, by all accounts, donald trump has made it clear that it's going to be an entertaining republican national convention. if hillary wanted to delay the suspense, announce her vp pick at the convention, that would help generate some enthusiasm. she certainly has access to more folks in hollywood that would help entertain. my suggestion, bring larry david in, he can be bernie sanders and give a speech to a chair like clinton eastwood. there's many things that can happen. >> the thing for trump is who's he going to get? he can get kid rock. right? i mean, there are very few -- there's certainly very few a-list musicians who want to be within 100 feet of donald trump. >> he was saying he's got these older sports figures. bobby knight. he said he was talking about having a sports night, a winners night that might be what he goes for. >> get a bunch of aging, retired sports figures, we'll see how well that does. >> donald trump is going to be the star of his own convention. there's no way he's taking a back seat. >> i'm curious. i'm in and out sure what it will be.

there is a curiosity factor. >> in effect we'll find out the vp pick at the convention, it will add a little drama. >> thanks to my roundtable, alice stewart, michelle goldberg, tara riddle. or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction and the urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas for pulmonary hypertension, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis and a $200 savings card.

my thanks again to the "hardball" roundtable for their time tonight. unfortunately, we were out of time for their tell me something i don't know reveals.

they told me off-air. they were pretty good. but we'll get to them on-air next time. that does it for me and "hardball" tonight. my colleague chris hayes picks things up right now on "all in." what do you make of this money situation between the two candidates? >> big trouble, being perfectly honest. >> big trouble for donald trump. >> i understand money better than anybody. >> even republicans running his super pac calling donald trump's financial disclosures a disaster. >> i'm really a good businessman, i'm so good at business, oh! >> tonight, what the trump fec filings mean for november. why his company is paying for a fake ad agency. >> i give you money, you give me ideas. maybe he isn't as rich as he claims. >> senator sherrod brown on hillary clinton's attack on trump the businessman. senator chris murphy on why today he said the vise grip of the nra is loosening on congress.