we track these two stories. president obama's news conference and donald trump. we'll have more coverage. "mtp daily" with chuck todd is up next. stay with us. if it's wednesday, with every response to a terror attack and every speech about the economy, it's clearer and clearer that's trump and clinton see the role in the world in dramatically different ways. one believes america should set the rules n essentially lead the world. the other believes that america can lead the world by simply looking inward and setting its own example and putting america first. it's "mtp daily" and it starts right now. good evening. i'm chuck todd. one thing about this presidential race, it's not as if the choice isn't clear. it's pretty stark these differences. welcome to "mtp daily."

we're going to start with terrorism. you can see why secretary of state john kerry described yesterday's attacks in turkey as daily fair. a jarring phrase to hear yesterday but it's true. right now it feels like the new normal. we're less than three weeks from the start of the conventions. can the public really accept the idea that this idea of terrorism is a new normal? we're going to dive into that in just a moment. first, we want to get the latest from istanbul. some images we're going to show you are graphic in nature. you're being warned. if you want to have people look away, look away. this is new video in the immediate aftermath of last night's deadly attacks. at ataturk international airport. the death toll stands at 41 according to turkish officials with hundreds injured. still no official claims of responsibility. officials in both turkey and the united states believe it's highly likely the work of isis. we're getting new warnings from

u.s. intelligence officials as well. cia director john brennan told yahoo! news, quote, i'd be surprised if daesh, of course another term for isis, or the islamic state is not trying to carry out that kind of attack in the united states. john brennan, head of the cia just said that. president obama is expected to speak this hour in an address to the canadian parliament which was the site of its own lone wolf terror attack just two years ago. at a press conference earlier this afternoon in ottawa with the canadian prime minister md mexican president, president obama addressed the attacks in instan bull with a renewed promise to defeat the isis ideology. >> we're still learning all the facts, but we know this is part of our broader effort. we are confident that we can and

we will defeat those who offer only death and destruction, and we will always remember, even as there are those who are trying to divide us, that we are stronger when we come together and work toward a better world together. >> joined by richard engel who is in istanbul for us. let's start with just the turkish government's immediate response. the fact that their prime minister came out and said it was likely isis, what are they going on? what is it that leads them to believe, or is it simply how they went about the attack? >> they're not giving full details about why they think it is isis but many people that we've spoken to in the u.s. government, terrorism analysts, believe that this looks very much like an isis attack. there had been warnings we reported on on nbc news about isis planning to carry out attacks during the month of ramadan. and it seems this was isis making good on those threats.

isis had staged militants, we were told, more than 35 in this country for the sole purpose of doing terrorist activities during ramadan. so the concern is now ramadan is not over. will there be more? but you have a multiple suicide attacks. very sophisticated, coordinated assault. a commando-style assault on a high-profile target. that looks like isis to many people. >> i've got to ask. is this idea -- i know that on the ground in iraq and syria, you hear from plenty of military and diplomatic sources that say isis is on the run. they're playing defense. they're not playing offense anymore. and yet, it does seem as if they are capable of more and more small, sophisticated terror attacks. are they simultaneously becoming more of a sort of threat to

places like soft targets and at the same time in a big way becoming less of a threat? it seems as if we're having some success on the ground but isis as a terror group is spreading its ideology with extra ease. >> i don't know if it's spread tgs ideology with extra ease but its militants are fanning out. they're leave, trying to carry out attacks elsewhere. i think isis finally realized if it sends its fighters to attack a check point run by bashar al assad's forces or to attack kurdish patrol, that hardly anyone notices and it's a tremendous amount of work. yet, if it can get its operatives into europe and many operatives are already there or it can carry out an attack here in istanbul, it suddenly will get international prestige and headlines. in a way it's much easier for isis to do this and much easier to do it for the long term.

isis probably will lose its foothold in iraq and syria over time. maybe over a year. maybe two years. but the people where isis operates loathe the organization. that doesn't mean it won't continue to operate in the diaspora and it could continue to operate in places like europe or in even parts of the united states well after isis is gone from controlling iraq and syria. >> how important is al baghdadi to the isis movement if president obama said in order to do whatever it takes, you know, get rid of this guy, what would that do to isis? >> leadership matters. if you look at the past, the original leader of isirks a precursor group, zarqawi, he was a fundamental leader. he was -- he set the tone for the organization. he was broughtal personally and when he died, he was replaced by

a series of ineffective leaders, and it led to not just the decline of then -- not -- that became isis but i remember speaking to some people in the u.s. special forces community who said i wish we hadn't taken out that leader because the ones that replaced baghdadi, the ones that replaced zarqawi because they were so bad. they were driving their own organization into the ground. the leadership does matter. if you look at al qaeda after the death of bin laden. al qaeda hasn't really recovered because zawahiri is seen as unpopular, uncharismatic, a divide enot a unifier, even within his own organization. so, yes, leaders do matter. >> we'll see if there's an intense effort to get baghdadi, especially in the next few months. richard engel in istanbul, thank you. are we in a new normal? that may be true. how will it impact the 2016

race? just moment ago, donald trump took aim at hillary clinton on the issues of terrorism and security. >> isis was formed during her tenure. isis is now worse than ever. you see what happened yesterday. you see what's going on generally. isis is looking strong. isis is signing up people over the internet. they know how to use the internet better than we do, and we do nothing about anything. they are taking our youth. >> there you go. i'm joined by carol lee, "washington post" chief correspondent dan balls and david ignatius. david, let me start with you. because i am curious of your view on this. in this respect. look. when a populist feels insecure, they look for easy, strong, comforting words. and trump is providing that whether true or not.

clinton and obama are basically saying, we've got this. it's working. it takes time. is the public going to accept that? >> that's what one of the things this election obviously will test. secretary clinton has a strong case to make contrary to what donald trump said in the clip you just made. she was one of the people within the obama administration who was arguing from 2012 on for a stronger policy against isis, against the precursor of isis, to prevent the situation we're seeing now. she has a story to tell. i have to say that the easy answers that donald trump is offering to a worried, frightened country like let's go back to tort ureally do hurt the position of the united states and trying to fight this battle. contrary to what donald trump says, there's an awful lot going on on the ground. i was just inside syria with the commander of centcom.

and i can talk in a minute about what i saw. the idea that we're not doing anything about this threat is not accurate. >> no, i understand that, dan balls. but it's perception, not reality, that hillary clinton is going to be dealing with on this. and donald trump's very comfortable saying whatever it takes to make people feel better and that idea of we're going to go get him, whatever it takes. and that's just not hillary clinton's nature. she's a diplomat. but this stuff is hard, and i think there's a fatigue in the country on this and maybe they don't have the paustience for hard. >> it's a great question and as david said, this is one of the big issues in this campaign. i think part of it is exactly what people are looking for n what are the strengths each candidate brings to it. as you say, donald trump presents himself as the strong man, as the guy who will get tough as the guy who will protect this country in ways

that the others haven't done. the clinton people feel whether it's this or last week with the vote in britain that in a time of uncertainty and insecurity, what are people looking for? what temperament are they looking for in their leader? it's not just a question of kind of the sloganeering. i think both of these candidates are projecting what they believe that a bulk of the country is going to want. and we're going to have to watch this play out. but there's no question that there's two sides to this debate right now. >> carol lee, the obama white house and david wants to get into this, too. i hear from -- it is clear they are making progress against isis. the organization that's in iraq. and at the same time, the american public doesn't see that. what do they see? terrorist attack in istanbul. isis-inspired terrorist attack in orlando. isis inspired terrorist attack in san bernardino. this is -- i think this has been

a challenge to this white house for all eight years. >> and particularly in the last few months. if you talk to people inside the white house they'll tell you they're struggling with how to talk about this, how to convey what's happening because privately they'll say this is the new normal. this is what it's going to be like. >> you never want to say that out loud. >> john kerry did and i was surprised. he's right, but it was stunning. >> the president has walked close to that line. he says you can't stop somebody who wants to blow themselves up. these aren't things or who wants to buy a gun and go in and shoot up a place. he's gotten close to that. they've not figured out how to talk about this. just to go back to donald trump and hillary clinton, our poll, the nbc/"wall street journal" poll had him ahead of her in terms of handling terrorism. it was close. if you look at that, what he seems to be doing is something people want to hear. >> you brought up an important point about hillary clinton that

she definitely would have pursued a different strategy in syria than president obama had she been president. but at the end of the day, she's running with him, not against him. i don't know if she can fully separate herself that easily. >> i think president obama's got to learn how to tell the country more clearly what he's doing. there's a reluctant to talk about operations on the ground. i've written often he's a good covert commander in chief. often not so good. just to be specific. the turkish syrian border has been open for the last five years. that's how all these foreign fighters, 30,000 or more, flowed into syria. the president said to the -- the president of turkey, erdogan, a month and a half ago, unless you close that border, we're going to do it. and we did do it. on may 31st, the u.s. led an assault on a town just south of

the turkish border that is now surrounded. that key isis transit point and closed it off. that may be a motivation for the attack that we just saw yesterday. it's entirely possible. isis is more surrounded and cut off now in syria than at any time in the last five years. the president doesn't talk about that. he thinks it's secret. not productive to discuss it. i think the american people are going to need to know more about what's going on. >> dan balls, i've been wondering as we're talking about, and you were in london covering the brexit vote. globalization in this anti-globalization mind-set that may be contagious throughout the western world. terrorism is a part of it. if terrorism is a part of the new normal it's because the world has gotten smaller and the world is coming here. the two things are intertwined here. the issue on the economy n the issue on terrorism. >> the interconnectedness of the world is certainly part of

what's going on and the president at the press conference in canada an hour ago talked about the downsides of globalization for a lot of people. and that's very real. and it was striking yesterday in donald trump's speech. he went right at that issue in a way no republican has done and very few democrats have been willing to do absent perhaps bernie sanders. but i'm not -- >> dan, we had to go back to warren harding to find a republican nominee as anti-trade -- anti-free trade as donald trump was. i'm going to talk about that later in the show. but go ahead. >> chuck, in a sense, it goes beyond trade itself. i think it goes beyond the -- to the idea that in one way or another, the modern world that has been created has not been good for a lot of people. and we're beginning to hear from them as we saw in britain last week. >> carol, when it comes to syria, does the white house accept the idea that, look, they haven't gotten their syria policy right. maybe they feel as if they made

the right call at the time not to do it when he decided not to go through with his promise to bomb those chemical weapons factories. but did they acknowledge this hasn't worked? >> they acknowledge the policy is not working, yes, privately. but they, if anything, have become more dug in when you talk to people over there on the president's early decision not to arm rebels and on the 2013 decision not to enforce the red line with military force. so they're very bought in at this point to the policy and decisions that were made very early on and will argue that nothing would be any different. in fact, it would possibly be worse. >> david, are we going to be debating the obama syria decision for decades? >> i'm afraid so. it's like the invasion of iraq by president bush in 2003. it's going to look, i think, as if the consequences of the decision are so bad. you look at the situation today in syria and the consequences

that flow from it. even the destabilization of europe, our closest ally, great britain. you can't argue that that situation, which is the product of the decisions that president obama made is a situation the united states would want. it's hard to know at each point what the right thing to have done would have been. you can't say where weened up is a good place. >> everybody agrees with that. they'll argue about the others. carol, dan, david, it's a pretty smart conversation with three of you. sorry that i interrupted it. you guys are great. thanks. coming up, northern exposure. the 2016 race. president obama faces questions on trade, economic anxiety and donald trump during his trip to canada. plus, more republicans want to trade in their nominee. we'll look at what's ahead in cleveland. just 19 days until the convention. if there's going to be chaos, we're going to find out soon, i think. stay tuned.

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donald trump's struggles with minority voters. our poll shows a potential challenge for trump with white voters. it's with the education gap. trump has a strong lead over clinton among white voters without a college degree. 23 points. the two are neck and neck among white voters with some college education. bachelors degree or more. so compared to 2012, in an october poll, mitt romney led president obama handily among both of those voters. double-digit leads. massive with non-college educated whites. the impact of these numbers could be felt the most in the rust belt which brings us to our map of the day. pennsylvania and ohio. they are key swing states, if you are donald trump, and you want to make this a race, that have large populations of white voters with bachelors degrees. they are centered around metro centers. philadelphia, pittsburgh, klum, but cleveland. all places that hold a lot of votes. closer margins in these places

mean trump would have to find many more votes mostly in more rural areas where there are fewer votes to find. trump was in ohio and pennsylvania yesterday. to put it into historical perspective, a democrat has never carried college educated white voters in the history of modern polling. that goes back to 1952. trump will have to improve with this key bloc if he's going to be competitive anywhere, let alone the rust belt. we'll be back right after this.

these people that are complaining, what are you complaining about. do you like donald trump? and one of the people says, yeah, i do. really. do you like him? no, seriously. i like him. i like the way he speaks and talks. he tells it like -- are you protesting? yes. do you know what's you're protesting about? i don't really know. >> donald trump is gearing up for cleveland. so is the donald truump trump m. it's trying to build its infrastructure for a potential floor fight. they are building a command center outd the convention and hoping they can somehow change the rules. "the new york times" reports that trump and the rnc have teamed up in an attempt to discredit republicans advocating and interpretation of party rules that allow delegates to vote for anyone they want on the first ballot. okay. but a growing number of prominent republicans fromg paul ryan to scott walker have said delegates should follow their conscience. senator john mccain told the

weekly standard, it's up to every delegate to make up their own minds adding, i do not tell them what to do. i never have. outside of just a handful in congress, most republican elected officials must walk a fine line in their dissent. our poll shows while a majority of republicans would rather have someone else as their nominee, their efforts to ditch trump still face the same question from the primar. if not trump, who? well, steve lonegan is advising what he calls this group of courageous conservatives. their effort to block trump's nomination. if you recognize him you know he was on here as a ted cruz supporter. welcome back to the show. >> thanks for having me. >> let me start with, are you going to get traction here? walk me through that. >> we already have traction. a full-time staff. regional, central and western region directors because we believe the republican party is on the edge of running over the edge of a cliff for donald trump. we're going to pull them back

from that ledge. we saw donald trump's trade speech yesterday. and that pretty much underlined to me why he's not the republican candidate that we should be nom nating. he made a speech much more democrat speech. much more of a bernie sanders speech. donald trump comes out and attacks nafta. i wanted to get into this. the truth about nafta, and this is where educated voters, where donald trump is losing educated voters. in the 15 years that followed nafta, america flourished. economic growth. created new jobs. narrowed the income gap between low and middle and middle income wage earners. we saw almost 15 years of true prosperity because of nafta. for donald trump to attack free trade, it's counter to everything the republican party believes in. but you'll never hear donald trump say, oh, it's the businesses in america having trouble doing business because of the choking regulations of the epa, because of the effects of the labor unions driving up wages in unrealistic manner. >> why do you think that is? >> in his heart of hearts,

donald trump believes that big government is the answer to our problems. big government run by donald trump when republican conservatives believe that big government is the problem. >> so you're basically -- your pushback against trump is that he wants too much centralized power. >> too much centralized power is all he ever talks about. he wants to levy tariffs. for him to get up and talk about him and bernie sanders have so much in common, he has more in common with bernie sanders than with the conservative base of the republican party. ultimately, the standard bearer that comes out as our nomly from t the convention, he doesn't even know what that banner means. >> you know -- i've had these talks with delegates who are split minds on this. they know -- they're not comfortable with him as the nominee but they're not comfortable essentially negating what their state did. >> well, the question is, what's their tipping point. does he need to be --

>> that's what i'm asking. what do you think it is? >> is he down 12 points, 15 points, 20 points? trump goes down to a resounding defeat in november to hillary clinton. he'll go back to his penthouse and probably get the biggest reality tv show contract ever. but down ballot you'll have congressmen, senators, state legislators who will find themselves on the unemployment line, as well as their staffs looking for jobs. >> i'm just curious -- >> we'll look back going, what >> you're finding this and did we do? probably, trust me, i remember talking with the never trump campaign. and they would say, everybody tells you, you want to hear privately in a phone call or in a private text or in an e-mail. ask them to say something publicly and suddenly their schedule is too complicated. >> we're saying it publicly. i want to make something very clear. we're here, the courageous conservative pac because we want to nominate a candidate who will defeat hillary clinton. not to undermine the republican party. quite the opposite. we'll do nothing.

if we don't win at the convention and donald trump is the nominee, we'll work very hard with down ballot candidates to elect the republican party back into office. >> what does that mean? you're going to stop -- when you say that, does that mean you'll help donald trump try to win? depends on how many resources you have. we'll be focusing on down ballot congressmen that should need help if donald trump will be the candidate. but we'll not work against donald trump when he's the nominee. >> are you struggling by the fact there isn't a couple of candidates that are ready to potentially be the face if the convention decides we can't do him? >> these candidates are laying back. ultimately a candidate wants the leadership to come to him and say, we need you to be our candidate. >> i've never met a candidate that wants to campaign. >> they want to be asked. >> if things go -- when i say the right way, it's the wrong way should donald trump continue on his current path. people might say, enough is enough. we need to do better. the convention represents the

entire republican party. not just the 14 million minority, like 25% of republicans, that voted for trump. but we also represent the other 75% who didn't. or oppose him. that's what the convention is about. a representative party. not a minority rule party. >> do you believe if you can't change the rules, is there nothing you can do? >> the rules right now, until they are passed. the rule committee has to pass a rule binding the delegates. if you read a book "unbound" they are not bound until they put before the convention a vote to bind yourself. we'll be on the floor of the convention telling those delegates, don't have yourself bound. you have a right to votior conscience. >> there's a 25% rule on the rules committee that would allow you to have a floor fight? >> that's correct. >> only need about 27 or 28 votes to have a floor fight from a murni iminority from the rule committee. >> you are confident you'll do that? >> i believe we'll do that.

kendall from colorado is leading that. we think we'll get a minority report. we're working right now on educating those delegates. there's another part to this. we're telling the trump delegates, you're better off being unbound. if you're unbound you can go to donald trump and say, and this is the art of the deal. they can go to donald trump and say instead of renting mar-a-lago, pay our expenses to get to the convention because a lot of them can't afford it. you see trump delegates trying to scrape the money together. people shouldn't have to mortgage their home to go to a convention with donald trump. he should pay their way. >> steve lonegan, leader of this effort. we'll be following it, obviously. if it gets big, i have a feeling you'll become a famous person. thanks for your time. still ahead, trading bases. how donald trump and hillary clinton's trade stances are making waves in their own parties. we'll have the details. next, the colorado senate matchup is set. race of the day is next. u total.

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we say, if it's tuesday, someone is voting somewhere. ballots were cast yesterday in five states. but the big one perhaps was the republican senate primary in colorado. we'll go ahead and make it our race of the day. it may be the last time we mention this race. a wide-open field of five candidates. darryl glenn underfunded but came out on top by 13 percentage points. glenn has only raised $137,000 this cycle but picked up huge outside endorsements following a state convention speech that lit

the place on fire. ted cruz, mike lee, sarah palin, mark levin, they all kicked in support and money to help his cause. it was a who's who of a-list conservative backers and it did help turn the tide for glenn in a primary of a bunch of unknown republicans. but he doesn't just have cruz's endorsement. he's running on some of the same tried and true talking points. says he'd not work across the aisle with democrats and would not vote for mitch mcconnell as republican leader. waiting for glenn this november is michael bennett. $5.7 million war chest. it's a difficult task for glenn but may be even made mordifficult without the backing of the republican party infrastruct unational republican senate committee has not been included glenn's victory in their morning newsletter today. the only mention of colorado was bennett voting against the republican zika plan. the republicans are playing defense all over the senate map this fall. colorado is one of the two states they hoped to put in play and play a little offense.

we're keeping an eye on this race in the next few weeks. it either develops fast or maybe the national party walks away and michael bennet gets an easier time than he ever expected. delaware senator chris kuhns is going to weigh in. first courtney regan with the market wrap. >> stocks rally again. the dow surges 284 points. the s&p 500 ads 34 and the nasdaq climbs 87 points. consumer spending rose in may for a success straight month thanks to demand for autos, appliances and clothing. it was in line with what most economists expected. pending home sales fell sharply last month. contract signings dropped 3.7%. economists were forecasting a smaller decline. april's reading also revised lower. that's it from cnbc. we're first in business worldwide. i work 'round the clock.

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chamber of commerce say we should leave everything the way

it is when i can make a better deal? i'll make a much better deal. i don't understand that. >> donald trump's relationship with the republican establishment is already pretty fraught. now he's bucking the party in a major way. trump delivered a speech on trade yesterday that was something no republican presidential nominee in the last 60 years would have delivered. >> the u.s. chamber of commerce is totally controlled by the special interest groups, folks. just so you understand it. and there are special interests that want to have the deals they want to have. they want to have tpp, trans-pacific partnership. one of the worst deals. it will be the worst deal since nafta. remember when jeb would say he is not a conservative. i say, who cares. they think, see, to be a conservative you have to have free trade. >> trump is making a play for some bernie democrats, obviously, but president obama had harsh words in response when he was asked about trump while in canada. >> that's nativism.

or xenophobia. or worse. or it's just cynicism. i would just advise everyone, be careful about suddenly attributing to whoever pops up at a time of economic anxiety. the label that they're a populist. where have they been? on the front lines working on behalf of the people? have they been carrying the opportunity to open up tupts for more people. >> trump's ideology is a throwback to republican ideology pre-world war ii. go back to warren g. harding. when that's republican, when he took office, he boosted tariffs, even passed a 1921 quota law that put limits on immigration in the united states. then you can look to the '40s and see similarities between trump's america first slogan and the isolationism.

that group advocated against fighting nazi germany during wo world war ii. it isn't just causing dilemmas for the republicans. they are leaving clinton boxed in on trade. it was an open pitch to sanders supporters. clinton can't run from her undeniable ties in the early stages of crafting tpp and supporting nafta. she's been in a minority of the democratic party. the business wing of the democratic party. but that's where she is. and she, you know, has to deal with being somebody that is advocated both big trade deals for president obama and for former president clinton. opposition to tpp and trade agreements likely remains a critical condition of the bernie sanders endorsement. at a time she needs party unity she's searching for a middle ground between two factions where there may not be a middle

ground. donald trump just wrapped up a rally in bangor. hallie jackson has the latest and joins me from bangor, maine. there's a reason maine is on the list. that's one of those states that splits their electoral votes district by district. it's the bangor-based congressional district that trump is targeting there. tell me about the speech and the reception. >> i think the headline, you nailed it. this idea he's now engaged in this war of words with the u.s. chamber, with many members of his own party who have split with him, or he has split with them when it comes to trade. he was calling out again bernie sanders supporters saying i agree with bernie sanders when it comes to trade. the reception here was enthusiastic when trump came out. governor paul lepage introduced him. when trump has visited some of the states for rallies in the past, texas, georgia, arizona, nevada, governors have notably not been on stage.

big cheers for governor lepage. i think he loses the audience when he starts ticking through his seven-step action plan on what he'd like to do on trade policies. a complete repeat of the speech he gave yesterday when you talked about trade. so overall it was a fairly big crowd here for bangor. as he talked about, this is one of the states his campaign calls a steal state. maine, colorado and nevada. >> they know they can actually get one electoral vote if they overperform in that one congressional district. hallie jackson on the road with trump. let's talk about the trade dilemma with democrats. i'm joined by delaware senator chris koonce. you are one might call open to free trade agreements than most members of your party. i'd ask you, are you a growing minority? i guess it's an odd way of putting it, but a growing minority in your party when it comes to trade? >> think about the contrast we

saw yesterday in the speech by donald trump and secretary clinton. donald trump in pennsylvania stood in front of a wall of, what, recycled waste of some kind and presented ideas that were mostly recycled garbage. and he recalled fondly the era of the '50s in his speech and talked about building great big walls and raising most of the federal government's revenue from tariffs. that's an friday from the 1950s but the 1750s. something that would have made more sense to alexander hamilton. secretary clinton gave a speech that harkens back to the fact that under president clinton, we had the most prosperity in my lifetime. she gave a forward-looking speech about how in the 21st century, democrats have ideas for investing in infrastructure, skills and training. i do think we can be a party that leads to engagement with the world. and i think it's possible if we have tougher trade enforcement to put together trade deals that could win bipartisan support. i don't know what party donald trump is campaigning for at this

point. >> i understand that. but i want to go to what's going on inside your party. i have been to plenty of places in ohio and iowa and pennsylvania that they were -- they thought these trade deals may be good for them and they don't think they are and they sort of -- they are pinning the blame of their economic struggles on these trade agreements. so i guess i ask you, the politics of trade has shifted dramatically here. how do you get it back? >> that's right, chuck. the politics of trade are tough because globalization, the entrance of 2 billion people into the world economy over the last 20 years really has hurt american workers. we can and should be tougher on trade enforcement. we can't build walls and go back to the 1750s and have our entire economy run as donald trump imagines on tariffs. we can embrace global competition, export more into the world and do a better job fighting competitors like china. the current obama administration

has 22 cases in the wto fighting against china's nontariff barriers. i do think it's possible to make the case that in this economy moving forward we can win through fair trade deals. and i think we have to own up to some of the failings of globalization and past trade deals. >> was nafta a failure? >> i think the person best positioned to do that by temperament and experience is secretary clinton. >> do you now look back at nafta as more of a failure than a success? >> nafta is a trade deal that's woven us more tightly to two of our biggest trading partners, canada and mexico. what a hear from delawareans, particularly those in manufacturing is they're concerned nafta wasn't a win for them. there's ways to strengthen trade deals going forward. i don't think donald trump's way going forward to try and tearif our way into the modern economy

makes sense or can work. >> tpp, it's going nowhere this year, is it? the election year politics? >> it will be very difficult to imagine a successful path for tpp. >> and what does it look like in the spring of '17? >> we'll see. it depends on who the next president is. i don't know what donald trump's economic policy or social policy really is. he's fighting with his own party, as you mentioned at the outset. there hasn't been a republican presidential candidate with his ideas for seven decades. >> but is this democratic party going to let hillary -- a president hillary clinton sign a tpp deal? >> i think it would have to be a much stronger, much clearer tpp deal than the one that's been discussed so far. we don't have the final text. there isn't a tpp deal in front of us in congress right now. i think it would be tough. but those of white house believe it's possible to benefit from trade would be open to it. >> let me ask you this question. what about trade agreements do you think you've gotten wrong? you've been more of an open free

trader but now as you've learned about these agreements, seen them play out. i thought i knew this about trade deals and i was wrong. >> well, i'll tell you early in my time in the senate, i voted ga against the colombia free trade agreement because i didn't think they were protecting the right to organize. there were too many labor organizers being murdered in colombia. i wasn't convinced we had a real party in protecting them in colombia. in the south korea free trade, i looked into the details, looked into our partnership and narrowly was convinced that was a good deal for the united states. i think we owe it to the people of our states and our country to look into the details. i don't think we can build walls like donald trump suggests and hide from the 21st century and go back to the 1750s and just try to protect our own country. the vast majority of our economy, in particular our manufacturing economy, relies on exports. without exports, without engaging with the modern economy of the world, i don't think we

can be the leader the world is looking for. after brexit, after this unexpected change in policy in britain, our allies are looking to us for leadership more than ever. and we need to engage our allies and our trade partners around the world. but we have to do it in a way that's fair to american workers. >> and -- all right. that's going to be tough sell these days. >> it is. >> we shall see. trade agreements suddenly used to be the last bipartisan thing we could get done in congress. now we don't know if we'll do that. senator coons, thanks for your time. tom brokaw's exclusive interview with vice president biden on his cancer moonshine. i have an expert of it next. at night, don't let it. advil pm gives you the healing sleep you need, helping you fall asleep and stay asleep so your body can heal as you rest. advil pm. foa healing night's sleep. i'm terhe is.at golf. but i'd like to keep being terrible at golf for as long as i can. new patented ensure enlive has hmb

plus 20 grams of protein to help rebuild muscle. for the strengthnd energy to do what you love. new ensure enlive. always be you. today vice president joe biden spoke at the cancer moonshot event. it's a pretty personal issue for the bidens who lost their son beau to brain cancer last year.

the bidens sat down with tom brokaw to talk about the way forward when it comes to cancer research. >> the cost is frustrating. the cost of some of these drugs. >> let me ask you about the cost. we cannot explud big pharma from all of this. >> no. >> as i sit before you today, i've got $1,000 worth of pill on me i took this morning. one pill was 500 bucks. i'm now in the maintenance part of it. in the attacking part of it, i was ingesting $2,500 worth of pills every day. i've got a great health care because i work for a big company. but again, that patient out there in the middle of america or in a big city or anywhere in the country who doesn't have the protection i do, what do they do? >> three things for those folks. first of all, the affordable care act comes along and provides for basic plans that everybody can get covered, and significantly cut the total cost of whatever it is, number one.

number two, the big changes taking place, is now if you develop cancer and try to get insurance, you used to be able to be denied, denied. you had a pre existing condition. kint be denied anymore. thirdly the health care plan provides that as long as you have the disease you're getting treatment, there can be no lifetime caps. >> you can see more of this tonight on "nbc nightly news" and tom brokaw will be with me to talk more about this interview.

they signed a pledge saying they will abide, saying they will back the candidate of the party. in my opinion, they should never be allowed to run for public office again. what they did is disgraceful. >> time for the -- that was donald trump today, still hitting his republican rivals.

i know some republicans are wondering, how come he doesn't hit hillary clinton more than he hits republicans? >> you boring for carly fiorina's campaign. i will start with you, sarah. >> i thought you might. >> there are different ways to get people to come to your side. attack them is usually -- >> that's not usually one of them. saying you must support me or you'll never run for office again. is this how he thinks he will win carly fiorina's endorsement? ted cruz' endorsement? >> i think it was number seven on the how to win friends and influence people list. it makes no sense, more because he's not attack hillary clinton. he told us he would pivot to that. that would be this huge thing. he would show crooked hillary for something she was, something unites all republicans. then he sees this shiny object

over here and moves back to attack republicans which i think feeds the feeling a lot of conservatives have. he is not a republican, not a conservative. you know, he's got his own agenda out there. >> well, it also shows that he, hillary clinton's argument that he has thin skin. he is clear lay grudge holder. he is not letting any of this go. and it is not clear how that is going to be effective to help him in november. >> i counsel candidates for a bunch of my career. this would drive you bananas to have to sit there as a staffer and watch this every single day. somebody just not communicating why he wants to be president. what is wrong with the other candidate and in some fashion with the rest of the campaign can articulate going forward. >> i had this conversation with steve and he's trying to start this anti-trump effort at the convention. i hear nothing but complaints behind the scenes.

yet, go do something about it. you have time. nobody seems to want to do something about it. these same people who don't want to support him also don't want to do anything about itful are they going to regret that? >> that's a really interesting question, actually, but i think that like me, a hot of people are torn between wanting to honor the voters' decision of the it is one thing they made the wrong decision and another to ignore it. it is like what's going on with brexit? you can disagree the outcome. then saying we know better. you were wrong. we're going on undo your decision is dave step than just saying we don't like the nominee. >> is there an in between step? well, unbind the delegates. is that realistic? >> i think even the possibility of unbinding the delegates is stuff. if they're unbound, i think that we will get a new nominee is not realistic. >> while this is happening to trump, on the other side hillary clinton is doing some things are really good including for the first time in the history of the

last year and a half, she had an event with an overflow the other day when she was with elizabeth warren. she and elizabeth warren -- >> the overflow. i think it is incredibly important for the campaign to pay attention to. an energy that we haven't seen. >> it is borrowed energy. >> and you're going to see more borrowed energy next week when she is with president obama in north carolina for the first rescheduled campaign event. >> i want to delve into trade again. it is whiplash. as much as, you know, trump, this is very consistent for him. this is 1987 donald trump, criticizing ronald reagan for bad trade deals with japan. this is not something that he just come up with willy nilly. he believes this in his heart. but the republican party is the party of free trade. at least i thought it was. is it? >> find me shots that donald

trump doesn't necessarily fall in hine with the republican platform. >> but this is voter driven. >> i think donald trump reacts to anger by saying, we'll make everything better. and i think trade is just the latest example of that with you i think you see that with any number of issues. you say it is heart felt and consistent. it has been less consistent. he feeds his audience and i think it is more that. >> i was going to say. you would think, wow! the chamber wants to dump trump. opportunity for the democrats to raise money. >> in 1992 when bill clinton gave a speech in october where towed come out for nafta with additional side benefits in the election. it was a tough thing. >> and he delayed and delayed. >> but with rahm emanuel, they were all working on this. >> a majority of republicans.

>> right. you couldn't do that this year. hillary has had to walk back from that. the one thing we're not talking about it, what happens to technology when you're in a society, in an economy where you don't need as many people to make products as you used to? >> that's a great challenge. you can't rail on automation in an election. who do you blame? the robots? >> the president had four big things that he wanted to do after his re-election and trade is huge. it is probably not going to happen. >> i'm wondering if it ever will. >> i don't know if tpp in any form that it exists now. >> maybe the lame duck. >> thanks very much. we'll be right back with a quick break. ♪ americans are buying more and more of everything online.

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we'll be back tomorrow. with all due respect, i take away so much time from them. i'm giving it to them early. you have 9 free seconds, mark. it's all yours. see you. >> on the show tonight, convention plots and speaking with just 19 days to go until republicans convene in cleveland. first the world and america still reacting to the attack at istanbul yesterday. the total number people killed is now 41, according to authorities. more than 200 injured. by three suicide bombers who tirkish officials say have ties to the islamic state. hillary clinton and donald trump have each weighed in over the past 24 hours. let's review what they've said. the attack at the airport occurred just before 3:00 p.m. eastern time. trump offered his first reaction at 4:08 p.m.