studios. thank you. that does it for this hour. mtp daily with chuck todd starts right now. >> ♪ ♪ if it's thursday, t minus 18 days until the convention and still trump versus the republicans. he attacks the party. republicans fire back. he goes after them again. it is as if nobody can help themselves. if republicans want to win the white house, at some point one side has to give. mtp daily starts right now. ♪ ♪ good evening with i'm chuck todd here in washington. welcome to mtp daily. and this last day of june. officially half way through the year. we're also just 18 days from the start of the republican convention. donald trump continues to have problems uniting the republican

party and in some ways comfortable still being at war with them. republican leaders continue to return the fire. there is a lot of other news that is overshadows this story line this week and yet it is continued uninterrupted. trump wrapped up town hall on trade in manchester, new hampshire. he had multiple attacks op the republican establishment. including its free trade orthodox and party's ties to the chamber of commerce. >> if you're living in a rigged system, i used to say that about the primary because i win a state and i didn't get the votes. i would win a state by a lot and the delegates would say, there's nobody else. couple of people in the republican party say oh, gee trump is going against trade. i'm not against trade, i just want better deals. u.s. chamber says trump wants free trade. i don't want to stop free trade. i love free trade.

i just want better deals. >> here is trump yesterday slamming party leaders who walked back their pledge to support him as their nominee. >> in my opinion, they should never be allowed to run for public office again. because what they did -- >> then here is trump on the u.s. chamber of commerce. world's largest business organization and typically a strong ally for republican candidates. >> control totally by, you know, various groups of people that don't care about you whatsoever. >> trump went after the rest of you his party this morning. >> some some ways like i'm running against two parties. i'm not sure it matters because i think we're going to win. people are so fed up with politics and politicians. because i think i'm going to win either way. >> now, for some of the return fire. take a listen to this tirade, if you want to call it that wab from the normally very even keeled and even-tempered senator

from utah, mike lee. this is lee after being press bid a conservative talk show host, steve malzberg to get off the fence and support trump. >> i just don't understand why you're not out there trumpeting trump. >> steve, i get it. you want me to endorse trump. >> well i don't understand. >> we can get into that if you want. we can get into the fact that he accused my best friend's father of conspireing to kill jfk. we can go through the fact that he has made statements that some have identified correctly as religiously intolerant. we can get into the fact that while being popular in my state in part because my state consists of people who are members of a religious minority church. if you want to go to it why it is i have concerns, i can go on if you like. don't sit here and tell me steve i have no reason to be concerned about donald trump. >> by the way, mike lee, member of the rnc rules committee at

the convention. folks, how can trump unite the party if he keeps attacking it and vice versa? a lot of trump critics decide fed they have the stomach for actual revolt or not. let me get to our own halle jackson in manchester, new hampshire. with the trump campaign that just wrapped up. it is clear to me, watching this town hall, that the campaign didn't vet the questions, did they? >> doesn't sound like it, frankly. we actually spoke with one woman at the end who was concerned about members of the tsa, tsa workers on the security lines, wearing hijabs. we spoke with her. she reiterated concern and as steve put it those people should not work on the secure the line. she was concerned their faces were covered, heads covered, trump took this question, probably not one that his campaign wanted him to take necessarily. he said we are looking at it on the veteran's side, getting more veterans working for tsa.

interesting vibe here, chuck. feels like a throw back to the primaries. trump doing town halls, we haven't seen this for a while. >> and there was an interesting special guest there. leader of new hampshire delegation for trump and former campaign manager corey lewandowski. he lives close by there. how was he received by trump world? >> very well. we watched lewandowski walk in. he was fired about a week and a half ago. he walked into the restricted area. he was allowed past the areas that we are not allowed past. i caught up with lewandowski as he was walking out. what are you doing here? he said, i'm home. he is chairman of the new hampshire gop or delegation of the convention and as you know he lived in new hampshire. he wouldn't say much other than that as you are aware he has a contract with a different network. >> that is true. all right. halle jackson, covering the trump campaign. quite a fascinating town hall.

in some ways very normal trump. but also very different. i'm joined by super lawyer and nbc political analyst ben ginsburg p. i keep adding superlatives to your name. and the superb cnbc contributor larry per low. larry let me start with you. infighting this week wasn't -- there was the usual personal stuff that goes back and forth inside between trump and the republican party. but this week it was about policy. and a massive policy difference on trade. you're trying very hard to rally folks around trump. how do you do it on the issue of trade? you are mr. free trade. you are in 2008, critical of those questioning nafta, for instance. where are you on this? >> i am a free trader. okay? and i think not that i might

have changes in it but wouldn't ado away with it. on the other hand i joined another free trader, speaker paul ryan, who came out and endorsed trump's trade speech. on the following grounds with which i agree. that is to say if you make a trade deal both sides have to play by the rules. and among other countries, china never seems to do that. they steal our property rights, counterfeit our goods. cyber hack into our government and businesses. united states should be the leader in setting rules and everybody should agree and if they don't agree, then you have to use the law to enforce that. ryan said that today. the show of unity. i happen it agree. personally, i would have liked to see the speech have aly little more talk about the gains from free trade. which i think are substantial. but in terms of rule making for heaven's sakes, why is that so controversial? other presidents have had to

take retaliatory tactic he. >> you know, ben, at some point the infighting has to stop, does it not? the party. and trade. you can chalk that up to a difference over policy or multiple views of trade-offusly in both parties on in front. but there is also the other side. at what point does the stop trump movement have to lay down its arms or vice versa? does trump have to allow the party to see if they have the votes to get rid of him at the convention? >> i think that that whole discussion will center on the convention. ten days from today the republican platform committee will begin its meetings. there are a whole series of policies in which donald trump has not been talking republican orthodox. and groups and individuals who believe in those positions, been to his will in the platform or is this their chance to prove their relevancy still? because apparently donald trump didn't need him for his campaign

and put in planks. so even before you get to the rules committee, two weeks from today, you are going to have the platform on the sourt of policy issues. >> look, i give ben ginsburg all the good add vadjective. he is my friend and he gives my good advice even recently as i look at a political race which i wisely didn't pursue. look at things. you got tell me why lower taxes, lower regulations, limited spending, unleashing energy for example, why is this not free market conservative republican pro growth orthodoxy? i think it is. i must take issue. now you will get people that don't agree on everything. they never do. i understand the problem. he is a friend wab good man. okay. that always happens. there is not a stop trump success move. that's out of the question. and i say this to you an to my friend, ben. ben, the republican party needs an overhaul. i mean, trump is running as an

outsider to change the establishment. a lot of those primary processes were pretty awful. he is going to break some eggs if he is elected president and i think he is right about that. i got to tell you, ben. it is time for a change. and trump is a change agent. >> i will -- let me defend ben here. i didn't set the two of you up as being pro trump or anti-trump. ben i know you are pretty neutral these days on trump. you obviously worked on other campaigns but i believe you are not part of the never trump movement, are you? >> no, not at all. and look, i mean, i think larry makes a valid point about all of the positions that he wants to taken a hope donald trump takes and he is right about the republican party needing an overhaul but the fact of the matter is, a lot of your friends and my friends are now in the position of needing to stand up at the platform committee and reassert relevance to the process. to my point, larry, which i

don't think you can disagree with is there is likely to be pitched battles over this at the plat farm simply because there are differences between donald trump and many of the groups that you and i have worked with over the years. >> you're right, ben. look, i don't disagree. you know there are always ba battles. never complete agreement. i think that's good, not bad. but the point that chuck raised, get your take, whatever. all these guys, running for president in primary signed the documents. okay and they are supporting the candidate. a lot of them walked away from it. and trump has a right to belly ache. reince priebus, they signed the documents, it a big deal, six months ago and now what they walk away from it? trump has a right to raise this. >> larry, the trump probably is that mike lee was not one of those people who did it. paul ryan and wait he commented,

many issues, trade speeches ase aside, is not one who mentioned. still not holy embraced is not one of those people who signed the document. that document was sort after tool to be used at the moment and still a tool to be used. but let's not confuse that document with what is going on in the republican party. >> wait, mcconnell endorsed trump. but ryan endorsed trump. i understand mike lee. >> larry -- >> what about jeb bush and some of the others? >> i do want it talk about this party. and mcconnell, let me play for you, what mcconnell just said about trump and then what he said about hillary clinton, larry, take a listen. >> my hope is he is beginning to pivot and become what i call a more serious and credible candidate for the highest office in the land. >> what was your working relationship like with hillary clinton in the senate? >> fine. she has been an intelligent

capable person. no question about it. >> so larry, in that same interview he questioned, got even more about questioning about what kind candidate donald trump is at the same time mitch mcconnell about hillary clinton, yeah, fine capable intelligent person. you know, if that's an endorser, i think trump would be looking for new endorsers. >> he has endorsed them. senator mccon al is a smartpera. we need him in the senate. the way i read stuff, i think that guys like mitch mcconnell are trying to help trump. move them in the right direction. i think that's very constructive. i go back it this point. you good through the processes, ben and i have been to the conventions through the years. there is always disagreement and you always have fights. platform fights. delegate fights. whatever. and i don't have a problem with that. i just feel that to some extent trump is the changed agent and

some people resent that in the gop. i don't think they should. they should be open to changes and if mitch mcconnell came out and said i'm not endorsing donald trump, i would have a different view. i can't change it. i am powerless. and i'm not hearing that. i'm hearing just moving in the right direction. >> and my question to you, there was an interesting profile of one of the co-chairs of the rules committee. a utah committee member, member of the rnc, former member of congress. and everybody is skeptical of her. trump people are worried about her and never trump people are worried about her. and this is reince priebus's pick, not trump's. shouldn't trump be worried if reince priebus went another direction than what trump wanted? >> i think one of the canaries in the mine shaft of what will happen at the convention is the first vote out of the box and rules committee on thursday, which is whether the delegates

will buy into reince priebus's pick of rule of the chairs committee and vice chair of the rules committee who is in the same boat as mick elsen. >> though she endorsed trump and he has not. the difference between the two. >> we have known him a long time. >> all of the delegate stuff, ben is genius, way over my pay grade. i'll just say this, right now, the race to toss up, that's what the polls are showing. i believe under trump's days with a strong pro growth message as strong pro growth message along with national security. a winner and because i don't think mrs. clinton has a coherent message on any of that stuff. is that's just my particular take as an informal economic adviser. >> and it may be he is trying to do it outside of the party which is the interesting play a lot. >> it may be. >> all right, ben and larry, there is great. we will take it back on the road. always a pleasure. >> thank you, cluchuck.

>> you got it. coming up, more out of istanbul. and what john kerry call the daily attacks overshadowing what might be actual progress against isis. tom brokaw joins me on that issue. plus more from his interview with joe biden. and if it's sunday, much more on isis, chair and impact of 2016 on "meet the press." also hear from two guys, both of whom could be on the ticket in the fall. stay tuned. americans are buying more and more of everything online. and so many businesses rely on the us postal service to get it there. because when you ship with us, your business becomes our business. that's why we make more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. the us postal service. priority: you

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something that makes me happy my name is roger zapata and i'm a usaa member for life. usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. new developments today on the attacks in istanbul. at least 13 people were arrested potentially in connection with the assault. police sources tell nbc news that assailants were russian, uzbek and kyrgyzstan. these attackers haven't been specifically identified, only country of origin. the attacks have all the hallmarks of an isis attack. there were also developments on

foo fa luge why's development fallujah's development. and from the iraq ministry of defense showing a convoy leaving the fallujah area when air strikes had vehicles and according to a senior iraqi official and i can tell you about other u.s. sources they seem to confirm this as well and u.s. embassy saying it was a jipt effort in the iraqi military and united states. nbc news cannot confirm the number killed in this airport. the officials speaking on the conditions of anonymity. you heard secretary of state john kerry describe the terror attack he as part after devastating though dateily affa. progress against isis is significant. joe biden said isis has done one thing, uniting the world against them.

and with tom brokaw and how to tackle what now -- >> we can do a lot better particularly as the world concludes this is not just a u.s. problem and this is the problem throughout the middle east and we are continuing to increase our intelligence capability and coordination in ways that didn't exist before. we are are pretty good at it at home but now greater collaboration internationally. >> and more about the interview and more about this larger issue of sort of maybe the media's role in how we report terrorist attacks versus how we report this military. mr. brokaw, welcome back, sir. >> a very impress of strike if it all holds up. and isis fighters relating fallujah, reminiscent for me what happened in iraq 1 when the iraqi troops were leaving kuwait city and they got caught north of kuwait city and the strike looked very much like what we just saw there.

there has been more from within the defense and security departments of the obama administration. more encouragement as i talked to them about how well they are doing. >> i hear that -- we hear that too. we see some reports of it and obviously we are numb, i think, every time you hear progress over the last ten years. then all of a sudden there are two steps back and i tell you there is public relations perception problem that the administration and frankly the world is delling with which is what the public sees as successful isis attacks. the public, administration will say, that's just happening because we're pushing them back and by the way, facts back them up. they have left territory today than they did a year ago in iraq and syria. what is that that the public need to know more about the isis strikes to understand the terrorist attacks in context? >> we have battle fields going on. we have the one that is within iraq and on the fringes of syria

at this point. and but the suspects in the bombing and terror attack in turkey, you notice they were from russia, kyrgyzstan and chechnya. at this point, isis is not just identified as militants who come out of the middle east but drawn from more -- other radical muslim states. parts of russia, chechnya and kyrgyzstan. they are going into africa and central asia as well. it is a yin and yang situation. i think they are doing better on the ground based on everything we see within iraq. but this is needle like. you strike in one area, it t breaks apart and reconstitutes somewhere else. >> i want it plto play your intw with trump and other muslim

americans. here it is. >> it requires us to have much more in constant collaboration and impact and involvement with the muslim american community. and muslim american community hates this. but they also have contacts. they have notions of what may happen and they can identified the wow factor in the community. and that's why i'm so concerned about the way one of the candidates is talking about isolating muslim -- >> i thought it was interesting he didn't use his name. taking pains not to do that. >> i think he did. i don't think he wanted that to be the story necessarily. i do think that they have a legitimate point. san bernardino and recently in orlando. other members of the muslim community, islamic community, in those two areas were concerned about the behavior of the people who were the perpetrators of those two vicious attacks. but they didn't go anywhere with it.

and i think that they really do have an obligation to step up in the war and alert agencies about the behavior of someone. we heard both post terrorist attacks in san bernardino and in orlando people saying, my god, i never thought he would two this far but i was quite worried about what they were up to. >> a bigger picture with the vice president and a guy dealing with foreign affairs in this country for basically his whole professional life. they are leaving a pretty unstable middle east. they got a pretty unstable middle east. unheri inherited one. i tried to challenge people. naming one decision a president made in the middle east that has gone right. let me ask you this, what if you think -- what is he concerned most about, about what he is leaving their successor? >> here is what i think. i've been talking with vice president biden about the issues since he was chair of senate

foreign relations committee. he was very concerned during the initial stages of the reconstituting of the iraqi army. general petraeus was there trying to put together an iraqi army. he thought it was not a very successful errand on the report. this is during the push administration. he sent over investigators and they were not impressed as most of us were not as we watched all of that. so i think he is treading a careful line. now he is in power. one senior member said to me recently, we are going harder but not hard enough. i would like to step it up because we have success if kosovo. we have to hit them harder and that will get the world's attention and get their attention as well. so there is a very robust debate within the administration. based on everything i have been hearing and talking to people about. >> and what is joe biden doing in 2016? why do i feel like he won't be done in public service?

>> i do believe based on my long interview with him about moon shot attempt to get a handle on cancer, he is very read in on this. he lost his son, bo, so it is a personal passion of his as well. i wouldn't be surprised if that is his next crusade. his wife lost someone to cancer so she is involved in it. he gave me a quick overview and knock down and we have young researchers doing thing and they don't have support. we have to find them and give them the money they need for example. they cannot continue to raise prices the way they do without having to answer for it. so he is touching all of the sensitive bases and most of all, cancer is not one kind of disease. it is a lot of kinds of diseases. as i've come to learn. and those of the things we have to be better about. and the declare the war on

cancer in the nixon administration, it was the war on cancer. >> yes, the cancer moon shot and oh, so much more. appreciate it, sir. >> a pleasure, chuck. good to be with us. >> still ahead, one of brexit's biggest factors. who is replacing prime minister cameron? i will talk with the british ambassador to the united states. stay tuned. worked with republicans and democrats to fix it. creating the children's health insurance program, so that every child gets the health care that child deserves to have. now eight million kids are covered. that's the kind of leader she is. and the kind of president she'll be. i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message. what body aches?-gels, you'll ask what knee pain?

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to brexit vote in the uk and we are now getting a sense of who might be the country's next leader. and boris johnson, one of the loudest in the leave campaign, one of the faces of the leave campaign and david cameron said today he is not running for

leader of the conservative party. and five candidates are running to lead the party. there is more turmoil on the other side of the aisle, labor party voting against its leader in a landslide, really. but he said he is staying anyway. a strong bond between the u.s. and uk. joining me now is sir ken derek, fairly new british ambassador to the united states. bam bass do ambassador, derek, welcome. >> thank you. >> senator kerry said the bond is unbreakable between the two countries. should the united states consider the uk its most important jl eye? >> i think so. and in the g7 and g20 with the fourth largest military power in the fifth largest economy. we bring a lot to the table still and i think we will continue to be your closest

ally. >> is the eu weaker today because the uk is not in it. >> and on the initiative we are still in the european union today. nothing has changed. and in terms of the status there and listed with the members and how we take the public's decision of last friday forward. and how long pro process takes and what end result is. and until that decision, until that negotiation is completed, we will stay in the european union and let's see where we go to the end of that. >> now, you were appointed to this post by prime minister cam cameron. there is now a replacement and boris johnson announcing he isn't going to run. what's next for the next prime minister? >> the process is, we now have a

list of i think five candidates to succeed david cameron as prime minister. i should say david cam rn, i worked with him for four years as national security adviser. i enjoyed working for him. i'm personally sad he decided to resign but i understand completely why. i think it was the honorable thing to do since he campaigned so strongly to stay and the decision of the british public was to leave. there are five candidates. the list will -- is closing now, i think p. there will be two-stage process. first a vote amongst mps in parliament. within a few weeks, that will produce a talk to then go out to conservative party -- >> any registered member that can vote -- sort of like a primary as far as our public is concerned. a national primary of registered members of the -- >> right. the top two who they want -- the

conservative party and prime minister. and that process is accelerated because obvious reasons. get on with this. and the expectation of the decision by 9 september. >> how important do you think it is for the next prime minister to be somebody that supports the leave movement. two top candidates here, one is theresa may. on david cameron's side. to stay. and michael gove, who helped run the leave campaign. do you think the conservative party should say we should pick a leave leader? >> i understand why you would ask. i'm a civil servant. my job is to serve whoever is chosen to be prime minister. >> you did get involved in the campaign. you advocated to stay. >> i worked for the government. the government's position is, we should stay. >> so the government asked to you do? >> that's right. government position. >> not necessarily your position. >> it is my position too, actually, since you ask. but the job now is to take forward the decision to the

british people took last friday and as a civil servant and diplomat and my job will be to help and support the implementation of that decision and that's what i will do. >> is the idea of revote something, secretary kerry said, maybe in a year, who knows. >> when he was campaigning to remain, this is a once in a generation decision and it would be final. and a number of us out here in diplomatic person around the world, said the same thing. and that is the positions. so this was a decision and now we need to move on with implementation. >> look in your previous job as national security job as prime minister. one of the toughest decisions you guys had to make. had to do with intervention in syria. and rhetorically you wanted to be there with the united states. you took it to a vet in parliament. obviously parliament went another direction. but let me ask you this, do you

think the uk exits the eu, if the syrian migrant crisis, you know, if we didn't have a syrian migrant crisis in europe, would the uk still be in the eu? >> i think there are a number of factors that led to that majority for leave. they include the issue of sovereignty and how much sovereignty were held in brussels rather than in westminster. the costs of being a member of the european union. there was no doubt as prime minister has said publicly, that the issue of free movement was one of those plateaus that played quite heavily in the campaign and in the vote. the syrian refugee crisis, of course, is a different from free movement of labor, for citizens of the european union. >> the public may not have seen that. >> well, the public did understand that because in the campaign, the government tried it make it clear that this was a

different issue. >> but the leave campaign used pictures of syrian migrants in their campaign materials. >> that's true, but we are where we are now. the decision taken and implemented. >> what did we do next with syria? can this stay? can this remain? this idea of, i understand the decision not to intervene, at the same time not intervening also has consequences. >> back in november last year, we took a decision in parliament to join the united states in air strikes over syria against daesh, against isil. look, the process in syria needs to involve two tracks. one continuing the battle against daesh. and we will be glorious. and we need to search for a political process which can

produce an inclusive government in syria which can end the polling civil war that lasted for five years and caused so much misery, so many deaths, so many refugees. >> sir kim derek, british ambassador to the united states. thanks for coming on. >> thank you. >> coming up, battle ground break down. new swing state polling has good news for trump and clinton. just depends on the state. and in the lid, why the republicans are now calling for attorney general loretta rinlyn to recuse herself from the hillary clinton investigation. new details right after this. you both have a perfect driving record. perfect. no tickets. no accidents. that is until one of you clips a food truck,

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welcome back. you can never have too many polls, right? we have a bunch of new battle ground polls today. this one i'm sharing with you, democratic side, i want to show you what they are doing. interesting some of the numbers they have. hillary clinton, battle ground states, close call. so here is where clinton is up double digits. in florida, north carolina, double digits in wisconsin. double-digit leads for clinton in michigan. up 9 points in pennsylvania. big increases from president obama's winning percentage in 2012. here is good news for trump in the polls. he and trump even in ohio, nevada and new hampshire and trump by the way, still on top with a small but durable lead in arizona. and then check out gary johnson

in all of this polling. over double digits in swing states like wisconsin, ohio, pennsylvania and michigan. boy, if he sustains this, he ends up being a much bigger player in november. if he sustains this in the summer, guess who shows up in the debates. latest, next. i drive a golf ball.

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loretta lynch, after she had what could be best described as a happenstance meeting ochb on a tarmac in arizona with bill clinton. in light of the apparent conflict of interest i called repeatedly on attorney general loretta lynch to ensure that investigation is as far from politic as possible. investigation they are referring to house majority whip just put out a statement that does also call for lynch not only to recuse herself from the matter but also appoint a special counsel. time for the lid. kristen welker has been following the clinton campaign, democratic strategist doug thornell and republican strategist alice stewart, kristen, let me start with you. the details of this bothened up on a tarmac, bill clinton apparently walks to her plane to say hi, nobody stops him, he's former president of the united states, who's going to stop him on that front, and they have a 30-minute meeting. 30 minutes is not five minutes. i think that's probably the most troubling aspect about the denials is boy, 30 minutes is a long time. >> the optics are very difficult for the clinton campaign. the push-back has been vigorous. they stress this was not a

planned meeting. they talked about their grandkids, this was social and the former president does this all the time when he sees former dignitaries which he absolutely does. the problem is, this moment wasn't thought through and as a result, you have republicans pouncing, you have senator kunz saying this doesn't look great. secretary clinton, last thing she needs is for the optics of the e-mails to get worse. the best thing for her is she is actually off the trail. when she's back on the trail she will be joined by president obama so they will try to shift the narrative but no doubt this is the one thing that continues to dog her campaign. we still have that ongoing fbi investigation. >> this is more than an optics problem. this is a potential corruption problem. and did they talk about their grand grandkids? i bet they did, for five minutes. what did they talk about the next 25 minutes? that's the concern. we have -- >> you really believe, here's the thing. i just say, it's a shame we live in a place where we are all questioning the integrity of the chief law enforcement officer

who was confirmed in a bipartisan vote. >> and former president convicted of -- impeached for -- >> half the country will never believe either side of the story. >> i think loretta lynch confirmed in a gop senate, mcconnell gave her vote, i think if you will question her integrity, it's never been questioned before -- >> she should never have been confirmed. if you have a problem with integrity. >> right. she's shown a high level of character and integrity throughout her career. this is much ado about nothing. i think you brought up the fact about bill clinton doing this pretty regularly. he came up to your old boss, ted cruz, on the tarmac couple months ago and they had some casual conversation. i just think at the end of the day, sure, you can talk about the optics but republicans are jumping on this because their candidate is sinking in the polls. >> the problem is for secretary clinton, one of her biggest issues is the trustworthy issue already. they are trying to turn that around. they are running millions of dollars in ads in battleground states trying to reintroduce her to voters, reminding voters of

her key accomplishments, when she was first lady, going back to there. this fits into the narrative and makes it difficult to turn that around. >> if you are a con sfeers thsp theorist, it does. >> we are living in an age of distrust of american institutions. i hate that we are guilty until proven innocent but this is the world we live in. loretta lynch knew this going into the job. >> you also have to take into consideration we are talking about former president as i said, that was impeached for lying under oath and obstruction of justice. there's the truth factor there. i think the only outcome of this should be for her to consider recusing herself and appointing -- >> do you submit you are taking a step to say she did something wrong and she compromised her honor for the clintons? i really doubt that that happened. >> isn't it in the best interests of hillary clinton to find a way to have as apolitical

of a process make this decision as possible? are we now at the point where it actually is in her best interest to have a special counsel? >> it could be. i think what's interesting if you talk to the clinton campaign based on my most recent conversation she still hasn't been contacted by the fbi. they are actually itching for that to happen so she can have that interview, whatever the outcome may be. they are hoping obviously that nothing comes of this and she can put it behind them. >> one assumes she's the last interview they do. >> exactly. >> i also think, look, the clintons have lived with the special prosecutor in the past and they know -- >> this is a political investigation, in my book. i think it started out with kevin mccarthy saying that this was a political investigation, essentially, and i think if you trust loretta lynch, if you trust the fbi, that this inquiry is, you know, that they won't let politics figure into it, i think there's not much more you can do there. >> let me play devil's advocate.

it doesn't matter what the fbi does if you are a clinton supporter, you will believe clinton and if not, you won't. >> i agree 100%. we can go down the full list of all the things that are perceived negatives when it comes to hillary clinton and her supporters are die-hard. i live in little rock, arkansas. i'm very familiar with the history of the clintons and her base, her supporters, will believe her and stay behind her. we are talking about the real issue here, how will this affect her presidency and her run for president. we are seeing the democratic party rally behind her regardless. i don't think it will have tremendous impact on that. >> let me switch gears while i have you here, alice. can the republican party ever get rallied around trump? or will this continue to be a problem or will it be a problem to the convention? >> should they, yes. can they? that's the $10,000 question. i think -- >> your former boss still hasn't endorsed. he clearly is referring to him when he gets angry. >> absolutely. look, it's incumbent upon donald

trump to unite the party together. he's the nominee of the party. it's his responsibility to do so. he's taken the right steps, having met with evangelicals and reaching out to nra and different groups that need to hear from him, but there are certain people that certainly need to be reached out to and -- >> you think attacking them is the right way to reach out? like chamber of commerce? >> not to say you can't speak at the convention if you don't endorse me. that's not the best way to go about it. >> i think it's amazing he attacked the chamber of commerce this week. that would be like hillary clinton going after -- >> absolutely. i better stop or we will keep going and i will get in trouble. thank you all. quick break. we'll be right back. life insurance automobile insurance i spent 20 years active duty they still refer to me as "gunnery sergeant" when i call being a usaa member because of my service in the military to pass that on to my kids something that makes me happy my name is roger zapata and i'm a usaa member for life. usaa. we know what it means to serve.

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that does it for us tonight. we'll be back tomorrow with a brand new nbc news presidential battleground map. "with all due respect" starts now. i'm mark halperin. >> i'm john heilemann. with all due respect to donald trump's wall, it looks like the mexicans may have found a way in. >> that could be a mexican plane up there. they're getting ready to attack. on the show tonight, a tarmac chat. veepstakes flap. a former british hack. first, donald trump's new campaign tack. he did something