you the impression they are everywhere, they can strike in the so-called hearts of enemies. >> even if that's not necessarily the case. laith alkhouri, thank you for being here. that does it for our coverage this hour. i'm kate snow. "hardball" starts right now. trump attacks left and right. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews. we are covering the hostage situation in bangladesh, of course, where as many as nine gunmen have taken hostages at a cafe in that diplomatic zone of the capital city. but our big story again tonight is political. it's here at home. donald trump, whether you're gaga for him or terrified against him is something we haven't seen quite before. he's taking on the big business types who love getting cheap labor here or even cheaper abroad. he's taking on the liberals and

also the business types who love loose borders, taking on the neocons and other hawks, the bushes and others who look for every chance to jam us into yet another foreign war. this week, his focus was economic nationalism. >> we're being destroyed by trade which we will talk about. we are being destroyed at our borders. tpp will destroy you, folks. it will destroy you. it will take any vestige we have left in our country, it will destroy you. people are sick and tired of being ripped off with our jobs leaving our states, with our jobs leaving our country, with the money. they get the money, they get the jobs. we get nothing. we are going to put america first. i have to say it. we don't put america first. we don't put america first. we don't put america first. and we have to. >> globalization has made the financial elite who donate to politicians very, very wealthy. but it's left millions of our

workers with nothing but poverty and heartache. >> the u.s. chamber of commerce is totally controlled by the special interest groups, folks. just so you understand it. >> trump's out there rallying, sick of lost industrial jobs, sick of seeing their kids leaving home, looking for work that's nowhere to be found, sick of their sons and daughters being sent into the middle east to screw with another regime change. sick of nothing being done about illegal immigration. and this, what he's saying, what he's selling as only trump can do is why, despite all his zany comments about mexican judges and cracks about attacks from mexican airplanes and because of his nasty call for an eye for an eye approach to terrorism is why he's threatsening hillary clinton in places that used to be safe like pennsylvania which nbc today switched from leaning democrat to tossup. and why the dangerous world with yet another terrorist attack today, this time in bangladesh, trump may be on the way back from a slump. eugene robinson from the "the washington post" and robert

costas, national political reporter for "washington post," and good for us, msnbc political analysts. it does seem he had a terrible two or three weeks because he went off into the crazy thicket of zaniness, the mexican judge. nou t you know the story. yet when he gets back to economic nationalism that's his bread and butter, it's about jobs, fear of immigration, fear of bad trade deals, fear of losing your children. you are up in scranton, in erie, pennsylvania, living on social security and medicare, i'm describing most people up there. they are older. what do they want? their kids to be living close enough to them that they can visit once in awhile. not be running desperately off to the southwest or some place else for a job and a life. >> what got trump to this point, i think basically two issues. this economic nationalism and immigration. in some ways, i think immigration may be the more visceral of the two issues but there's certainly appeal in

communities, rust belt communities that have been left behind that are not participants in globalization in a meaningful way. certainly aren't getting anything out of it. just objectively, not getting anything out of it. people there are desperate. we should all get outside the beltway more. >> i agree with that. david brooks did in his column today. it seems to me that he's not running as mr. chamber of commerce type. he's not running from the rotary. he's running from, he's against the big shots. i'm not going to say everybody on the left will say i'm cheering for the guy but there's something different going on. it's a cross-cut he's attacking. anybody with clout, he seems to be against even though he's mr. big-time himself. >> we are watching the crumbling of this republican consensus that has been in place at least since george w. bush, ford interventionism, supply side tax cuts. trump's taking an axe to that. >> you're right. it's everything w, the president, pushed for. he was good on immigration. he was positive on it. he was big on foreign wars,

right? and he was a free trader. that's right, he was running as w. >> he is. he's running as w, running against what frankly has been the consensus of the establishments of both parties, right? not the tax stuff but certainly interventionism and certainly free trade. >> one thing the republican party politically, it's losing, i mean, look at the polling on congress, republican congress. it's there. >> you're right. after ronald reagan, you saw the rise of pat buchanan and populist conservatisconservatis. you saw the rise of the tea party, this anger about the banks being bailed out. but it never became a coherent political movement until you had the celebrity candidate, donald trump, step to the fore. >> there's a new, to get back to what i said, new nbc news map showing the updated battleground states. these are the states that are going to decide the election, nbc thinks. over-industrial states like new hampshire. not a big state but pivotal. pennsylvania which is pivotal. ohio, of course. michigan, wisconsin.

by the way, those two are considered still leaning democrat. what do you make of that? pennsylvania has always been the state that republicans sort of lust for, if you will. they go that's the one we're going to grab. >> like fool's gold. >> you don't think they will get it this time? >> i think pennsylvania is tough. there's something about pennsylvania. you look at it, they always -- >> i can do this. >> you are from there. they always think they will get it. >> because they feel when they go up in the 50 or 60 some counties in pennsylvania, 60 are conservative. philadelphia county, here's what happens. mr. october, president obama, will go to philadelphia, he will go to north philly, to germantown, to northeast philly, to west philly, to the burbs, delaware, montgomery and bucks county and in every area, he will zoom up the vote. he will just do it. he will pull in a half million coming out of southeastern pennsylvania. you're laughing because it will break the heart of the right wingers. he can do that.

>> the test for the trump this month with trying to get back on script with the vice presidential pick is can he convince the suburban voters outside of pittsburgh and philadelphia that it's socially acceptable, that it's okay to be publicly for trump. for now, a lot of those voters and the obama people know this, obama can fly in and say trump's not part of your lifestyle. he's not like you politically. >> he also has to break into the union guys, police and firemen. lot of irish guys in northeastern philadelphia, that last pocket up there of republicanism. he's got to get that, too. if he's going to stop that, he will have to offer minorities and liberals and big city people are minorities and liberals, generally. anyway, yesterday donald trump says he feels like he's running against two political parties. let's watch this cross-cut thing he's doing which makes him interesting. >> you know, when you have guys like bill chrystal who has been calling it wrong on me for two years, when you have all these guys. it was a rough primary, they got beat up but they went after me,

too. beat them up and now they don't want to endorse, and you know, it's almost in some ways like i'm running against two parties. >> there he's taking on the super hawk vote. smart guy, has a lot of influence but is a hawk. meanwhile, today in colorado, sarah palin issued a warning to republicans who aren't backing trump. the anti-trump crowd. here she goes. >> that gang they call themselves the never hash tag, whatever, okay. well, i just call them republicans against trump or r.a.t. for short. we are talking about the direction of our country, our children's future, the direction of the supreme court, all of this hinging on the next election, and at such a time as this, you cannot be lukewarm. we are going to take our country back and you are either with us or you are against us. >> what do you think that stands right now?

is that too old? is that yesterday or is that tina fey, get ready for "saturday night live"? because i think she's compelling. there's something about her, i don't ignore her. i don't know what it is. >> i think she's beyond that phase of her political career. i think the novelty is gone. there's a set of people to whom she really appeals. there's a set of people to whom she is tina fey. she is a joke. and you know, look, i don't see donald trump going out of his way to get that much closer to sarah palin. >> i think she adds tremendous performance ability. the way she moves her voice, she moves it up and down, there's one of her octaves which is pure sarcasm where she makes fun of liberals. she has a lot of talent that way. i'm sure you're all laughing at her. >> remember the last scene of the movie game change where a mccain advisor says she will be forgotten in a few weeks and you start hearing the chants? this is what we are seeing. the palin pick in 2008, a few years later, she's still around.

jeff sessions, palin, these economic nationalists are controlling the republican party. >> i like woody harrelson playing steve schmidt who says she doesn't know anything. i'm not an elitist but that was a funny line. thank you. coming up, terror in dhaka, bangladesh. bad news happening again, hostages held in a bakery this time as an isis news agency reports the group claims responsibility. looks like an isis operation. "hardball" returns after this. tt nice and soft. but grandma, we use charmin ultra soft so we don't have to wad to get clean. mmm, cushiony...and we can use less. charmin ultra soft gets you clean without the wasteful wadding. it has comfort cushions you can see that are softer... ...and more absorbent, and you can use up to 4 times less. remember, that's charmin in there... no wasteful wadding! we all go. why not enjoy the go with charmin.

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we are continuing to monitor the breaking news from

bangladesh. of course, as many as nine gunmen stormed a popular restaurant in the diplomatic zone of the country's capital. an unknown number of people are being held hostage right now. the isis affiliated news agency, by the way, said the terror group itself was responsible for the attack. it looks like an isis operation. this is the second major terrorist attack this week. on tuesday of course three men blew themselves up in istanbul's main airport. 44 people were killed. i'm joined by malcolm nance once again, executive director of the terror asymmetrics project and terrorism analyst, laith alkhouri, director of north african research at flashpoint and msnbc terrorism analyst and nashanranor. what do we know? >> well, there are a lot of details we don't know. as you said, eight to ten gunmen apparently have stormed into a very popular eatery in a very

upscale neighborhood in the capital of dhaka and they have kept an undetermined number of hostages, many of whom are foreigners. >> what would be the motive? let me go to malcolm on this. what would be the motive for taking hostages? that puts you in a barricade situation by definition. you are surrounded by definition. you have hostages, something to negotiate with, by definition, but what does that yield for somebody if they planned it this way? >> well, hostage barricades are about gaining concessions in the traditional sense of hostage barricades. we live in a world now where there is no traditional hostage barricade, where you have an armed criminal or armed group that wants to make a point and get a concession, perhaps escape. we are in the world of suicide hostage barricade, where it is an international spectacle, they hold hostages and then they mass murder the hostages and themselves. what they want is they want what we are giving them right now. they want global media exposure and they are getting it and then only along their own timeline will they determine they have had enough. >> well, if that's the accurate

prescription here, what is the plan? what's the prescription? do you have to rush them? >> well, in the circumstance like this, that's going to be completely dependent on the capacity of the rapid action brigade of the bangladeshi paramilitary forces, or if they can get some assistance, external assistance by the indians or even support from the united states for advice on how to do a direct assault on that facility. that's a linear assaulted building. there is just one wide open area. the hostages are all going to be amassed on the floor. the terrorists will be up there surrounding them. it's just going to be a blood bath if they go in a traditional method. there may have already been a short assault that wounded or killed several of the bangladeshi officers. this is going to take expertise and they are going to have to do it relatively fast, because the terrorists are going to get antsy and then once they have

reached their peak of patience, then they are going to either extract a concession or they will start killing hostages to get their point across. >> your thinking about this in terms of coordination, what does it tell you about the level to which this is coming from an organized terrorist group? >> well, just in comparison to the previous attacks that v unfolded in bangladesh in the past eight to ten months, this seems to be the most coordinated of all of them. not only the most coordinated, this seems to have targeted also a large crowd of people while previously, there were assassinations targeting between one and three people. so this seems to be more sophisticated. it's involving more attackers, it's clearly aimed at foreigners or what they refer to as western targets. but so yeah, the level of coordination and sophistication has risen indeed. >> let me go back, is this an attempt to reach western people, ex-pats, diplomats, people like that, people with money, people with foreign relatives?

people with influence, people who want to save from outside? >> the neighborhood where this is happening is sort of the kind of epicenter of power and wealth, where a lot of the diplomats live. it's targeting both foreigners but also the well-heeled society. >> sort of like georgetown? >> that's a very accurate description. beautiful, leafy, very tranquil place in a city that's otherwise chaotic and teeming. >> i do think bangladesh is a country offset by poverty in most cases but also bad flooding and difficult low-lying land and stuff like that. >> it exists on the periphery of the american imagination in many ways but remember, it's a huge country. >> it's a modern islamic country, too. >> it has more muslims than any middle eastern country. >> i wanted to bring that up earlier. because i remember the break between east and west pakistan which was itself a result of petitioning of south asia. malcolm, on fourth of july, what

do you feel? what's your instincts tell you about our situation here coming into the fourth of july week? >> any time i see a terrorist attack internationally, the first thing i think of is that u.s. law enforcement needs to understand that some attacks are done for strategic purposes on another part of the planet in order to draw your attention to that attack. and you may think that you are increasing security but what it may actually be in fact is another left hook coming from another direction to strike in your country. so we had the attack in istanbul, now this coming out attack of potentially isis in bangladesh. we should be taking no chances. that being said, the american public should understand that isis is not their travel agent. isis should not be able to determine whether we can celebrate our holidays peacefully. that's law enforcement and intelligence's job and we should celebrate this holiday as best as we can. >> laith, how do you see the fact that isis claimed credit for this but not for turkey?

what's the thinking here? do you trust them when they say it's theirs? do we take it as credible or do we wonder why they don't take credit for some? how do you look at the truth or reality here? >> look, isis sometimes releases statements on attacks that it did not actually direct or orchestrate simply to capitalize on the frenzy and exploit it for propaganda purposes. it seems likely now that isis might have a bigger involvement than previously thought. there's a confusion whether isis or al qaeda were behind it or some inspired individuals but now it's clearly pointing the fingers at more isis directed attack just because we saw an isis affiliated media agency release three consecutive statements with updates on what's going on inside, even mentioning number of casualties. so i expect that once the attacks are done that isis might release an official statement detailing more of what has actually taken place. >> following what malcolm just

said about the possibility of a left hook, this sort of combination thing, do you see them that coordinated, they might do something like this to distract us, distract the world, then punch us here at home? >> i think there's a risk we may be overstating their capacity as well as their coordination. >> when's the last coordinated attack on the united states? since 9/11? we have had a lot of lone wolves operating but have we had a coordinated attack? >> kou perhaps think of the al qaeda yemeni branch's efforts. the underwear bomber and all that. the parcel bombs. those count as something. >> attempts, at best. at worst. thank you. donald trump said we have to get tougher, taking on terror. he said terrorists would prefer a clinton presidency. let's watch. >> we are going to protect our country from terrorism, okay, folks? we are going to be so smart and so vigilant and we are going to get it so that people turn in people when they know there's something going on.

we have a president that doesn't want to mention what really happened. it's called radical islamic terrorism. right? that's what happened. the only thing they understand is strength and toughness. and we are weak. we are weak. and hillary is weak as you get. hillary is a weak person. she's a weak person. they will not understand hillary. they want her to get in so badly. they have dreams at night and their dreams are that hillary clinton becomes president of our country. believe me. >> malcolm, what do you make of that? >> that's laughable. okay? we have already seen isis use donald trump in their propaganda directly. i will go so far as to say donald trump is the isis candidate. he inflames the passions of people in the west to perform islamophobia, to draw recruits to them, to make them say this is what america is. they are willing to compromise all of their values in an effort

to come and kill us. believe me, what they don't want is they don't want a real politic coordinated global assault on their caliphate. they want someone to go off into space and inflame the other 1.6 billion muslims so that they can come off the fence and join isis and other groups. he is really, really speaking off the hip. >> i think what the enemy in this case of ours, not natural enemy but in this case of terrorism, wants an east/west fight. their goal is to unseat all the moderate leaders, bring them all down. their caliphate isn't going to california and kalamazoo. their caliphate is where they want to at a time. the way they do that is to divide the arab and islamic world on their side. thank you. the way they do that is to have a bad guy like trump. thank you all. much more on this situation in bangladesh later in the hour as news develops, we will give it to you. next, bad judgment. here's something to have fun with. just as hillary clinton hits her

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>> love the way she's explaining that. that was of course attorney general loretta lynch. i shouldn't say of course. at the aspen ideas festival, defending her decision to meet with former president bill clinton on the tarmac. get this straight, on the tarmac in phoenix, arizona. the 30-minute social chat as she called it has created something of an uproar amongst democrats and certainly among republicans. >> when i first heard that yesterday afternoon, i actually thought they were joking. i thought the people that told me was, you know, i said no way, there's just no way that's going to happen. and it happened. and i am just, i'm flabbergasted by it. >> -- sends the wrong signal and i don't think it sends the right signal. i think she should have steered clear even of a brief casual social meeting with the former president. >> the meeting brings unwanted attention of course back to secretary clinton's e-mail situation whatever it is and gives donald trump the opportunity to ask whether voters can trust the clintons. >> as you know, hillary is so

guilty. she's so guilty. you can read them right off here. and how that's not being pursued properly and i think that he really, he think he really opened it up. he opened up a pandora's box and it shows what's going on and it shows what's happening with our laws and with our government. >> well, this unforced error if you want to call it that which slowed the momentum of the clinton campaign for a couple days is a reminder that bill clinton can be one of her largest headaches. letsi's turn to our roundtable. we just got the news that andrea mitchell is reporting that the fbi will interview hillary clinton as part of this case as early as tomorrow and perhaps in her home here in washington. what do you make of that? we knew this might be coming.

but only might. a lot of people have said hey, hillary hasn't even been interviewed, there's no case here. now that's not a defense. >> we knew there was the possibility it was coming. we always said this might happen. i think they almost have to do it at this point just to show that there isn't any bias, they are moving along the case. >> really? >> yeah. because if there's any question that there's favoritism here or -- obviously donald trump will jump all over it. >> donald trump will jump all over this no matter what. >> what do you think's going to happen here? what's your bet? >> i don't think she's being indicted. i don't know if anyone's being indicted. he already said if there are no indictments it shows that it's crooked, the system's crooked. there are people out there wearing teeshirts that hillary clinton should be in jail for this without knowing any of the facts and so as a political football it's not going to lose any air. it's just going to get -- be kicked around even more so. >> let's go to some of the things we know. huma abedine, very dignified in

her approach to the job working for hillary, said in testimony according to politico that hillary clinton made all the big calls on the e-mail thing. is it possible that somebody below her might get in trouble because of steps they took about reckless handling of it isn't a big political thing if you get down to the fbi level, how did you handle this government information. did you protect top secret, did you handle it with care, were you reckless or not by objective standards. there is such a thing as an objective standard of judgment here that i would like to think our fbi civil servants are going to follow. >> which is what she was trying to say, that the career people are going to make the decision, not me. i thought it was striking today she basically all but admitted i did something wrong, i would not do it again, it's rare people in washington -- >> also, i will not exercise prosecutorial discretion here. i will do what the fbi agents lean toward. >> remember, not everything that's wrong is illegal. the way they set up the server was wrong, it violated -- >> i'm just talking about one issue.

will there be an indictment at any level. the fact they are having an interview with her you say is just to cover -- >> you can't investigate her e-mails, can't have her staff saying she made these decisions and not ever talk to her for the investigation. i think that everybody would have said that's kind of ridiculous. you have to interview her at some point. the question separate from will there be indictments for staff -- >> let's talk about the tarmac meeting. >> dumb. >> explain -- >> dumb, capital d. >> by who? >> bill clinton and loretta lynch. they should put bill clinton on an island for the next four months. i really believe for all the good he can do as a campaigner, he has -- >> has he lost his edge? >> he has the ability -- i don't know, he hasn't lost his touch as a candidate but certainly, he's shown poor judgment. >> he's going to speak at the convention. they are not hiding this guy. >> let him speak. then put him back in a box. >> he will blow up the convention. he always gives amazing convention speeches.

he can be an amazing asset. >> i have bumped into him and had scuffles with him and his wife over the years but he's always gushing and friendly. i said it today, d-a-w-g. the big dawg. >> like a retriever. he's super excited to see you all the time. >> they talked about what? >> apparently they talked about grandchildren. we have no idea. but i can imagine lynch, a former president walked on the plane to talk to her. i'm not surprised she didn't say move, get off the plane. she made a mistake. she said so. but it was a mistake by her but really, bill clinton knows what's going on. bill clinton has to know better. >> i can't see you. >> because of the intense scrutiny and negative criticism, the attorney general did defend the department of justice and publicly confirmed that she would accept, big word here, the fbi recommendations. in other words, as they come. here it is. >> people have a whole host of reasons to have questions about how we in government do our business and how we handle

business and how we handle matters. and i think that again, i understand that my meeting on the plane with former president clinton could give them another reason to have questions and concerns also. and that is something that, and that's why i said it's painful to me, because the integrity of the department of justice is important. >> what do you think about the discretion here? you think there is a natural discretion that she's yielding up, the attorney general decides which cases to prosecute, how tough to bring the charges? >> usually -- most cases, from the justice department, do not go up to the attorney general for decisions and particularly when it comes to the handling of classified information. these cases are rarely brought forward because they are hard to prove and again, a mistake is not necessarily a crime. so in normal circumstances, it probably wouldn't get up to her. >> but i read, somebody told me in the petraeus case, the fbi urged very tough sanction and eric holder in that case said

no, little lesser. misdemeanor charge. >> i think if you don't -- if the attorney general cannot talk to the relatives of anybody in washington or anybody in washington who is potentially under investigation by the fbi, she would not have a terribly large circle of people to talk to ever. >> this case, when i heard about this, i was like what is she thinking. i think everybody in washington thought that, too. >> the roundtable is sticking with me. up next, veepstakes. little fun now. here's my question. no b.s. here. who is actually being considered for number two on trump's ticket and on hillary's? who is actually being -- i know who they're talking to. who is actually being considered? i'm billy, and i quit smoking with chantix. i decided to take chantix to shut everybody else up about me quitting smoking. i was going to give it a try, but i didn't really think it was going to really happen. after one week of chantix, i knew i could quit. along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. chantix definitely helped

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are you being vetted? >> no. >> you have not submitted any information? >> no. nobody's called me. nobody's said would you like to

be. nobody's said would you be willing to be considered. nobody said anything. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was former speaker for good reason, newt gingrich last week, saying he had not been contacted about becoming trump's running mate. today, "the washington post" reports trump's campaign has begun formally vetting possible running mates with newt gingrich emerging as the leading candidate followed by new jersey governor chris christie. both have been asked to support documents and are being cast as favorites for the post inside the campaign. gingrich in particular is the beneficiary of a drumbeat of support from the trump confidants such as ben carson. nbc news also confirmed that indiana governor mike pence is being vetted as part of trump's vice presidential selection process and according to sources will travel to new york area today to meet with trump this weekend. we are back with perry, jay and david. seriously, seriously, the six wives club. the six wives club. the republicans will kill them with that. three wives apiece.

and running on the family values train. give me a break. it will never work. >> trump already -- >> they will kill them. hillary will kill them. >> he is off the family values train. but it's not just the six wives. it's the ethical violations. it's his own -- >> okay. why was newt gingrich only speaker for a brief time? what happened? why did they run him out of not just the speakership but run him out of the house? >> well, there was an attempted coup. >> what was his dalliance at the time? >> with his current wife, they were having a little bit of an affair. it's just as much as donald trump says he will line up all of the women who bill clinton potentially had affairs with, they could line up on the stage all the women they were once married to. >> it's funny but it just seems an odd choice for the republican team. >> also, chris christie and newt gingrich ran for president. they were not terribly effective

candidates. >> we are talking about possible indictments involving e-mail. there are at least plausible indictments coming on bridgegate. it looks like a tough customer to me. why would you put a guy up there, you think i was moving the cones? you're not going to put this guy out there as your running mate with all that stuff coming. >> he can't even win his own state of new jersey. this is my question about newt gingrich. is there any angry white guy out there who says i'm not going to vote for trump, but if he puts gingrich on the ticket, i will. >> by the way, georgia's a great prospect for the republican -- for the democrats. let's get back to this. i think "the washington post" is crazy or trump's crazy. >> trump's crazy. >> who do you think would help him? >> pence would be much better. a new person, a new figure, conservative christian, he appeals to the base that's wary of trump. he's pro-life. indiana. >> give me another one. >> well, corker.

what happened to corker? >> corker, i don't know that corker would do it. i don't know that tom cotton would do it. people talked about him, the senator from arkansas. i don't know that -- he once ran for president. >> mary fallin, the governor of oklahoma. she's a woman and from a state that although it's red -- >> fallin or pence would legitimize trump in the way gingrich and christie cannot. they are serious people, very conservative. >> unhyphenated republicans. what about thune? south dakota. is he too tall? >> he's too boring. >> i agree. he's been in the senate so long and made no impression. pence is a much better politician, much better campaigning. they were both on the hill together for awhile. i think pence is a little better. >> i look at pence and fallin and see them as serious people and i don't know why anyone serious would want to tie themselves to donald trump.

i mean, it's almost -- >> because they are tough. and they are main chancers. sometimes people in life take chances. they say the odds are against this working but if this works, i will be a hero in the republican party. they don't look at it the way you just did. they don't say we have a running mate for a bigot. >> paul ryan sees it that way. >> that means they are betting they have the ability to rein him in, the ability to discipline him in ways nobody else has so far. >> cheney did it with w, they put this big anchor under him politically. >> vice presidential candidate cannot fix all these problems. if he want somebody to fix all your problems, the ideal candidate is going to be a half-black, half latino woman millenial veteran. that would fix your problems but it's impossible. there is no such thing as a magic unicorn vice president who will fix his cancandidacy. >> you can talk like that. we'll be right back with everybody.

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now, obama's numbers are way up and democrats, he's no longer viewed as kryptonite. they think he could help them win elections. >> his numbers now are passing 55%. they could be at 60% soon. i do think he's mr. october. i think he's reggie jackson. i think he will come in in october and carry places like philadelphia with 90%. he's going to sweep and people like katie mcginty. if she wins it will be because of him. >> i did a profile of john podesta recently. one piece of information that didn't make it into the story is he's a hardcore x files fan. he's a hardcore conspiracy theorist, actually. for his birthday, the campaign tried to get him a role on the reboot of the x files but they already finished taping. instead they got him props from the series. they are amongst his most treasured possessions. >> he believes in that stuff. >> he absolutely wants to free the information so everyone can get it out there. >> he's also a big fan of roller coasters. mine is there are some trump delegates who are so worried about violent protests and even

possible isis attacks at cleveland, at cleveland, they are so worried they decided, they have announced they are bringing their guns to the convention. they can't bring them in the hall but them in the hall, but they say, we'll be at restaurants, hotel rooms, and anything is up for grabs. and they're advising other delegates they come armed as well. >> give me another double. i'm loaded, i'm packed. great, the long branch saloon. but i do agree with them about the fear factor. we don't know what's coming. thank you. when we return, we'll get an update on the terrible situation in bangladesh. it's a hostage situation, could get worse. "hardball" returns after this. t clinically proven to help reduce hunger between meals. new, from metamucil, the #1 doctor recommended brand. ♪ one♪coat, yes!

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welcome back to "hardball." we continue to follow breaking news out of daca, bangladesh, where there's an ongoing hostage situation at a cafe in the city's diplomatic zone. i'm joined by nabiha who lives a few blocks away. tell us what you can about the situation there right now. with me now in d.c. is tara mauer, senior terrorism adviser. what do you make of a hostage situation here? >> it has two motives.

one, they get to insigcite fear and two, it gets media attention for a long period of time. the bangladeshis have not gone in yet. so it garners media attention, it provokes fear and shows a level of coordination they were able to go in there with guns and hold people in a soft target for a substantial amount of time. >> if it's a hostage situation, it means a barricade situation. a barricade situation means you're going to give up, get some concessions, abobut you lo. >> usually with isis, you see law enforcement go in quickly, because there tends to be not a desire to negotiate. they want to kill people. in this case, they have not stormed in yet. but usually they think that isis is not going to negotiate for an outcome. and they're worried they'll inflict damage on the hostages.

>> what's your instinct? >> isis has claimed it, unclear if they directed it. it's on the string of a number of attacks we've seen. and it's the peak season of ramadan right now. >> explain that part again. they don't respect the holy season as a time of peace. >> tomorrow is a very significant day for ramadan. we can expect more attacks in the next few day isis has been calling for attacks in this period. people who carry them out during this period think it's a more holy time to carry out attacks for marrtyrdom. >> does this have to do with us? >> yes, it's a western target and diplomatic enclave. just like the airport, it's a not just a turkish site. all international travelers go through this site. there's nationalities from all over the world presumably in this enclave and also in istanbul airport.

>> do you expect they'll discriminate among the hostages? >> that's a good question. we've seen sometimes they do that. most of the time, they tend to be fairly indiscriminate, they're there to cause as many casualties and deaths as possible. it remains to be seen if they'll try to negotiate, but i find that highly unlikely -- >> what do you do if you're head of security? what's the best option? >> in this hostage case right now, i think they'll need to go in there and -- >> rush. >> like we've seen in other hostage cases. in the bataclan, you have to go in, because they can turn on the innocent victims and kill them anyway. >> do you ever try to drop a smoke bomb? how do you confuse the situation enough? >> i haven't rushed into hostage sites. you're getting a little bit beyond my expertise. but they go in with a team of individuals, they have night vision goggles to give them an advantage. but again, this is not, you

know, the fbi doing this, it's the bangladeshi police force, so not potentially as high caliber. >> i see the lone wolves in the united states and they're -- we have to live with that. it's a free country. people are inspired to do bad things as well as good things. that's going to happen. people are going to get angry and upset, people with psychological problems, involved in situations like san bernardino, like that. there hasn't been a successful operation, check me on this, a successful operation in the u.s. since 9/11 that's gotten through. >> true. >> we're working hard to make sure it doesn't happen here. >> i think sometimes it gets lost in all these attacks. they're horrific, awful attacks. one individual in orlando can cause a lot of damage. but we've not seen a highly funded, highly coordinated, like a 9/11-scale attack, which is way beyond what we've seen --

>> we've seen the boston marathon, two brothers from chechnya. they had their own lone wolf imperatives to do what they did. and san bernardino, the husband and wife team. we had ft. hood. we've had these cases where it's people who have been inspired to do something, but we haven't seen direction, have we? >> right. but these individuals are inspired through online contact with these groups. and isis now is claiming these attacks even when there's not operational support. isis claimed the orlando attack. >> we're in it, i worry about july. we have the fourth of july -- >> and the olympics and soccer games in europe. with the end of ramadan, july 4th weekend, probably see heightened security alerts, olympics, sporting events traditionally a target and political conventions. you're right. lots of soft targets. >> i think the trump people have a right to be worried. i hope they don't have everybody armed up, but i do think it's a

magnetic target. thank you for coming on. >> i wish i could come on for a good news story. >> we'll have to have you on just for that. that's "hardball" for now. enjoy the fourth of july. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. ♪ tonight on "all in" -- [ sirens ] another terror attack, this time in bangladesh. tonight the latest on what we know from dhaka. >> are you from turkey, sir? are you friend or foe? >> donald trump's troubling response in the wake of terror continues. plus, more problems for the trump campaign in the nbc news battleground map. but will vice president christie or gingrich help turn things around? and the attorney general's candid remarks over her airport meeting with bill clinton. >> i certainly wouldn't do it again. >> "all in" starts right now. good evening. ju