we'll ask him about gun control, that is tomorrow morning at 10:00 a.m. eastern. now, it is time for the last word, amon is in for lauren tonight. >> thank you very much. it is going to be a busy night, not only here in new york but also in bangladesh. it is saturday morning there, nearly since this sooez essentially began. here is the latest on what's taken place. up to nine gunmen have been holding dozens of people inside. at least 35 people are still captive inside. the restaurant, as we know it, popular, with westerners. it is located in the city's gold shine neighborhood and up scale area, home to many of the city's embassies. there are conflicting reports about whether police have been able to speak to the attackers. previous reports said the attacker were not responding to police. an advisor for bangladesh said security forces are trying to negotiate an end to the seize.

the tribune are using loud speakers telling anyone who isn't part of the security forces to clear the area and security personnel should put on bullet proof vest. islamic state through its affiliated news agency has taken responsibility. though the state department said it cannot confirm that claim. the wounded are being treated, at least 26 people were injured, at least 10 people critically. they range from broken bones to gunshot wounds and that is according to officials. bangladesh is traditionally a moderate muslim nation. there has been an uptick in violence there. the associated press reports that since 2013, nearly two dozen have been murdered by attackers wielding meat cleavers and machetes, members of religious minorities, social activists and even foreign workers. for more 0 i'm joined by foreign correspondent matt bradley, he's covering one terrorist attack

that took place earlier this week and this evening where as we mentioned learning more details about what is unfolding in bangladesh, an attack that isis has claimed responsibility for. it has been a devastating week, when you put these two terrorist attacks on the spectrum of what isis is capable of doing, what it has been doing. what is the assessment of isis's claim of responsibility. how credible do we believe it to be right now? >> reporter: well, i'm not sure whether i can evaluate whether this is a credible claim of responsibility. but these two incidents, we're talking about this comes a couple of days after the incident that happened just behind me where 44 people were killed, that's a totally different incident. islamic state did not claim responsibility, but the turkish authorities believe islamic state was behind it. it has a lot of the fingerprints of islamic state. another totally different incidence, they have one strong

similarity, both of them show sightings of how this group is transitioning from a sort of sue toe state that -- pseudo state that governs in iraq and syria into a more traditional terrorist organization in the mold of al qaeda. islamic state has been facing pressures on the battlefield. they have defeats and not just in iraq and syria, but also in libya. and so this tasks of governing their self declared caliphate in iraq and syria has become so onerous they're traditioning into a more al qaeda like group where they're launching the street attacks in this cafe and this airport behind me here in in instanbul. >> covering not only the attack there, but also putting in context there what is unfolding. we want to now cross over to bangladesh. we're joined on the phone,

claiming editor at the tribune. he's been up all night, it's good to have you with us. i know it's been a long night for you and certainly for the people in bangladesh. what can you tell us what is unfolding now with daybreak. what is the situation there, describe for us what is unfolding as you see it or as you've heard about it from your sources? >> caller: a lot has been happening just in the last 20 minutes. it's about 8:00 a.m. this morning. since 7:40 we're told that gunfire has been heard. eight or nine explosions have been heard correspondent on the ground has told us that the armed forces are on the move and that the police have breached the compound has begun. i want to add something, this is something that i had not mentioned earlier, it's worth noting that this is a very major

attack. it's a major situation involving foreigners and unfortunately probably a lot of bloodshed. it's worth noting a hindu priest was hacked to death in remote part of bangladesh, and this morning another priest was attacked. although he didn't die, he was in critical conditions. so this is part of a large sort of -- just to give you context about what's happening, a lot of things have been happening lately and this crisis is one of many things, one of many events that happened here. >> i want to talk to you a little bit about the operation that you've described as saying the breach of the compound seems to be getting underway. can you talk to us about what type of forces have been deployed over night in the course of the hours where it was dark there. are we seeing a heavier presence of different types of security personnel. and do you know if at any point was there an attempt to

negotiate an end to this that was unsuccessful and that's why now we're seeing the security forces move in? >> caller: let me answer your second question first. he was an advisor to the prime minister here, the security forces were trying to negotiate. failing wish they would launch an -- so that's something that is now on the record. over the course of the nights, a number of different law enforcement agencies have made -- have arrived. we've had the taliban, various branches of the police forces. we've had bangladesh, which is socialized reported patrol. we've had probably uniformed members of the armed forces, the army, et cetera, as well,

perhaps an advisory role. to have been a lot of different forces. we've had fire service nearby just in case. all kind, just about the entire array of bangladesh's law enforcement and law enforcement agencies have been here on site. the home minister came in about three hours -- two hours ago, maybe three hours ago and was on the site. and so this is something that everybody is taking very seriously and we have been here -- we have been told that there was -- and this was confirmed about an hour and a half ago, that negotiations had been underway. >> also, i'm going to ask you to stay with us just for a moment. we want to also bring in msnbc senior, digital editor who has been following a lot of the developments for us as well online with some of the material and content that is coming there. and cal, i understand, there's

been some new information regarding what is being described as this breach of this compound. >> right. and just reflecting what we're hearing there from the ground, we understand that there's been some armour personnel carriers moving into position, that's that video you see there some of those vehicle marked u.n. have been left in the country for a while. they've been on the scene for some 10 hours. one of the things we have been surmising throughout this, perhaps the security forces will wait until daylight, not having the more technical equipment that you would fine in european type countries. the reporting that we are getting now, there are not only screams being here, a series of explosions and gunfire. it is quite likely that this operation is now on going to breach that, that restaurant. >> all right, cal, thank you very much for that update. are you still with us? >> i am. >> so, i know you said you had a correspondent who is on the ground there. can you tell us what he's been able to hear from some of the people that have been leaving

this scene, you know, you mentioned that police had been on loud speakers asking peek op to leave the area. do you have any more information on terms of how the security forces areryg to breach the compound right now? >> so the announcement by a loud speaker to clear the area came about two hours ago, our correspondent is there. he also mentioned that the remaining people who were there, security personnel were to put on bullet proof vest. that's from two hours ago. there was some sort of a low, now, we're having the formal operation, i think. i'm watching on the tv screen there, there are some local media on the ground, there are showing images on the personnel carrier and various kind of army trucks in the vicinity, whether they're being used in that procedure, i don't know. there's a heavy military presence around the compound. but we cannot confirm exactly

what's happening in the compound. >> i know that earlier in the evening when we started reporting, some of the live pictures or live feed that was being put out was deliberately put into play back so that it would not be showing, perhaps, the attackers inside the live developments outside of the compound. is that still the case -- is local media reporting this, there are live pictures from the scene of the seize. >> i can speak to the question of blorwhether or not there was black out. what i can tell you is the media was kept at some distance, probably, for their own safety. from the compound when things with r going down. there were at least 500 yards away from the venue. but now that we have, you know, after daybreak, you know, the images that i'm seeing on tv, seem to be being shot from not

too far away from where this is happening. the route on which this venue is located, it's a fact that ends at border's edge. it's the last front fronting the lake. so i think they probably shutdown the road, you know, somewhat, you know, inland and that whole area has been off limits for nonpersonnel. >> also, i'm going to ask you to stick with us as well, we'll touch base with you in just a few more moments. i want to bring in jim kav gnaw who is msnbc law enforcement hostage negotiator for the atf. i know you've been following this since the early hours it has broke and has been developing -- throughout the course of the night in bangladesh. are you also surprised that the police decided to move in with daybreak as opposed to use the advantage of nighttime and darkness? >> well, it looks a little heavy

handed, a little clumsy from what we're seeing, we don't know everything the commanders know. if you bring a row of armour personnel carrier towards the restaurant, that's not doing to really be the surgical type special operation that we would want to see in a hostage rescue that an american law enforcement squad or military around the world would launch. i hope that's not the case. i hope there's a surgical strike ahead of this and maybe this is just a fill-in behind the perimeter. but the key for the commanders on the ground is, are the hostages alive? that's the first thing, are the hostages alive? you know, they could have been killed at any period over the night and if so, you know, that changes your decision on the assault. if you know they're alive or at least many of them are alive and they can't make any contact, at some point, they'll want to do a deliberate assault, but not a clumsy heavy handed deliberate assault that's going to result

in a lot of deaths at the hostages, rather a surgical strike, more technical we can discuss as you would like. but right here, all we can see from what we can see, we would normally see it if it was done correctly. >> and jim, let me ask you about this development that happened, which was the advisory to the prime minister and this is according to roiters, you know, saying they were trying to negotiate an end to this crisis and that perhaps now that we're seeing this movement, now that we're seeing what is being described as this breach getting underway, is that a suggestion that the negotiations failed or what do you think may have changed the calculation just from a few hours ago when there was a relative calmer on the compound? >> right. well sometimes people read known negotiation wrong. what they have to read is the es ska lags and deescalation in the situation inside. if nobody is dying and there's no negotiation, you might have more room to maneuver your forces into a better position. you don't have to rush it.

but sometimes, you know, we've seen over the years where commanders will say they're not talking so we'll go in. you can't make the decision just on that one piece of information, you've got to go one, are the hostages alive; that's the main piece of information you need. where are they how are they being detained, held, are they tied, are they bomb strapped to them. how many terrorists may be with them, as much information as you can get from the hostages that escape, one or two escaped from the one terrorist that was captured and the long rifle teams that were watching, microphones that you can insert inside. you gather all that information -- before you make a decision to make a deliberate assault, you're always looking for the advantage, all they want is an advantage, it might be slight but that's what they've got to get to make their move. >> i want to go back to

bangladesh now and joining us by phone is an editor with the tribune, he's only a few blocks away from the restaurant. let's go straight to him and if you can tell us what you're seeing, can you describe for us the nature of what is unfolding there from where you are standing. >> hello. >>ello. >> yeah, i can hear you. what's going on right now is the operation is underway, so you have -- if is in fact stronger, that's what i believe the gunfire also come to a conclusion, probably fairly shortly, i believe. >> why do you think it's going to come to a conclusion fairly shortly, what makes you think that. >> i believe that the rescue operation is now finally underway.

it has been on hold all evening, but further up the reports i'm getting is that they've finally moved in. >> you're talking about hearing the sounds of gunfire. can you give us a sense -- >> right. >> of what is unfolding in terms of the military operation? is there a gunfire coming in from both directions, meaning coming of the of the compound, as well as that from the security forces? >> that's a very good question. i'm not sure that there is. it seems that there may be gunfire coming from inside the compound, but it is very difficult -- >> have you been there throughout the course of the night or are you just arriving on the scene. >> i'm not at the scene myself.

>> fair enough. and i was just trying to get a sense of the atmosphere around you, are there other journalists an are there civilians nearby who have evacuated the area or is it -- is there a mix of both civilians as well as security personnel where you are right now. >> yeah. everyone is staying in the building. they've been -- they've been advised not to move around and they've shut the streets down in the immediate vicinity, and that that cleared the perimeter for the law enforcement operation to actually do their operation. >> and do you have anything to suggest the conditions of the hostages that were taken. do police know if there's been a change in their status over night or what compelled them, from your report and from your sources -- >> i have very bad news on that. i have -- i've seen pictures, which are very authentic of dead bodies from inside the restaurant. so it's fairly grew some.

these are pictures which have been put up what appears to be an islamic state web site. and, yeah, it looks really quite horrible. certainly there's been a lot of killing. i'm not quite sure if they're dead or a -- if there are any more alive inside at all. >> they're out there. they're on twitter. >> fair enough. >> they're in the public domain. >> we haven't been able to independent verify any of those images. let me ask you why, have you seen the -- >> i've been in the restaurant inside myself. i can verify they're taken from inside the restaurant personally. >> i was going to ask you that. >> no question in my mind the authenticity of these photographs. i believe the ones i see eight, nine, maybe ten people dead. >> okay. and -- i just want to understand some of these details. so stay with us here for one

second. you've been inside that restaurant before? >> yeah, i have been, yeah. >> and some of the images. >> i can guarantee those pictures were taken inside that restaurant. >> some of the images you have seen online, you can independent feel that they are the sames ones inside the restaurant, similar setting? >> yeah, it's a similar setting. it is clearly taken from inside that restaurant and they're clearly dead bodies. >> have police on the scene told you what made them to decide to go ahead with this operation? >> they've been keeping the operational details close which is probably why, they haven't been sharing that information with us in terms of the timing of the operations and why they have moved and what they've been doing. they, in fact, moved -- they moved the television cameras

there for the first couple of hours and they moved those out after a few hours. and since then, information is to the operation has been very scarce, i think it makes a lot of sense that any operation is going to be efficient and effective. >> and have you heard it all from the leadership of banglade bangladesh, in terms of the political leadership, the government, have they addressed the operation that is on going now and what compelled them to go. have they revealed anything about the collapse of those militaries. >> nothing that looked like that has come out yet. >> i'm going to ask you to stay with us, if i can, from the tribune who is telling us now from what he's been able to see, he has is seen some images onli online. he's describing for us the operation as getting underway.

the presence of multiple layers of bangladesh security, the most significant development, someone who has frequented, he has been able to see some images that have been circulating online that shows that's being described as grew some detail suggesting that some of those that were inside the restaurant have been, in fact, killed, some of those hostages. we have not been able to identify that here, we'll be continue to work on that. more per speck ty on this, she's a bangladeshian-born journalist and founder. it's good to have you with us. i know it's a very long night and this is a significant development. i'm curious to get your thoughts on how the government is handling this and what may have changed in their calculation to compel them to launch this operation. you know it probably better than anyone at this point. >> thank you, so much for having me on.

you know, this situation is so fluid. i mean, we know as much as you do right now. i mean, it's on going. we're following the developments very carefully and i think that the government's actions are speaking, literally, a lot louder than their words. but just -- i mean, just as to tell you, i don't even know what to say. i'm in such shock. i really want the viewers to understand that bangladesh is not -- bangladesh is not baghdad. we are not in a green zone here. yes, this is a big diplomatic center, but it's also the city center. people are not divided where the green zone this is an integrated community. bangladesh is a huge development success story. we have huge development -- eight community in bangladesh. i can't even tell you, this bakery is a great place for diplomats to go but it's also a

great place for locals to go. my nephews go there every day. this is not just targeting foreigners, this is targeting locals, as well. and it's really -- i mean bangladesh, you know, working in the news for the past couple of years, particularly the past couple of months, we have been seeing reports coming out about machete killings, real attack on secular vloggers and secular voices. this is a big turning point. >> let me jump in here. you mentioned you had some relatives there, your sisters living not too far away from there. have you been speaking to them? >> i have been speaking with my parents and sisters. for the past two, three hours it's impossible to get a connection. since i've been on tv, it's been absolutely impossible, throughout the afternoon, i mean, i've been living in d.c. over two decades i have never called home the way i called home today. it's like being in a war zone.

it's like if you live in syria. initially, i had great contact with my family and then the past two or three hours no contact at all. it's difficult to get a line through. i'm sitting here, i'm getting the updates from msnbc, seeing the streets of taka, this is like a war zone. we have tanks on the streets of dhaka. >> it is a very powerless situation that's unfolding right now. this is a difficult time for not only you but for your family and all those people that are in the area. if you can stay with us just a little bit. let me go back to my colleague with some late breaking information. cal? >> as we sort of monitor both local media and police forces, 100 cam may does are involved. they are using, as we mentioned, armour personnel carriers. this is that rapid action, bahhalian. it's the equivalent of

intergovernmental sort of s.w.a.t. teams. it's the special forces within the bangladeshian military. 100 cam monday doe -- i want to go back, planning editor at the dhaka tribune, i understand that you have some new information as well? >> yeah, this just in. the assistant director of the battalion has just confirmed that four or five people have been rescued, one of which is a foreigner. this was just coming in now. they haven't yet been produced. we haven't seen them, we cannot confirm anything, it's taken by -- has just come in. >> let me just go back to that one more point, if you can. this is according to the rapid action battalion; is that

correct? >> action battalion? >> their media wing. >> yeah. so the media wing of the rapid action battalion. they're five or six people have been rescued. >> is he telling you that these individuals were rescued as a result of this operation or before the operation? >> that is what i understand, as a result of this operation, yeah. >> so he's been able to brief the journalist that were there, how would this come out. is this something being reported on local media? >> no, this is something that we've been told through our journalist on the ground. there are correspondences on the scene has told us this, yeah. >> have they been able to tell you whether or not there are any other survivors or are there any numbers on the casualties or perhaps even fatalities as we've been hearing throughout the night. >> no, i'm afraid we have no further details.

the statement was made and so i'm letting you know that's coming in. as i said, those have been rescued haven't yet spoken. they've actually processed, i'm not sure. we don't know what the conditions are. we don't know what the condition is of -- that they're in, at the moment. but they say that four or five people have been -- have been rescued. >> okay. do you know at all, did the statement suggests that the operation is over, that the actual security component of this operation is over or any information on the attackers, if the attackers are still alive or not? >> at this stage, i couldn't say for sure. we cannot confirm. as i said, we're some distance from the actual event. so i couldn't say if this was -- still being carried out or whether it's now come to an end,

i would rather not comment on that. >> perhaps maybe we can go back to your colleague who might be in the area. are you with us? we'll try to re-establish that connection. let me bring in jim -- he had been inside this restaurant many times. he's seen some of these images we're also familiar with. some of these images that suggest that some of those that were inside were killed before this breach of this operation got going and then the announcement by the rapid action battalion, the kind of leap police force of the bangladesh police, if you will, or at least some component of it, announcing that they rescued five to six people, including one foreigner. >> right. some of the people could have been hiding him inside there and

in the chaos got away or maybe the security forces were able to engage some of the actors in there and some of the hostages good news. it's awful news that they're tweeting out, you know, a stack of victims that they've murdered. we don't know when in the hostage taking event this happened. did it happen early on, did it happen once security forces were on the move, did that mass occur hostages then once they knew an assault was underway. did they do it before that to make the commanders make the decision to go in because they thought the murders were happening. we don't know those answers yet. some people might have been escaped in the chaos. they could have been got away just if somebody was holding them was shot, so it sounds like some people have escaped, but unfortunately it's going to be a lot of victims that didn't escape. it's going to be a lot of

wounded or dead officers and terrorists. . your reading from the situation both from what we're hearing. the fact that the security operation now is clearly underway according to multiple sources, as well as the roiters report that the advisor to the prime minister saying that these negotiations, if they do not end with a settlement, then the next option was going to be the breach of this compound. >> right, i'm a little surprised that it took so long after daylight for them to do that, this assault. it tells you quite a bit about the lack of capability that the bangladesh's have. looking at the picture that is we have here, you can count up if you were isis intelligence. you can count up there's going to be a hundred men on this site. they brought in ten men per carrier. there are four assault boats that they've carried in inside those trucks you know they're going to do a ten man per vote

assault right on to the place. clearly, the bangladesh's rolled in with all the armoured vehicles and that's why we had those explosions over the 20 minute period. >> we're getting more information now. we want to cross back over to islam in bangladesh. i understand you have some new information for us? >> our correspondent are now confirming that five people have been rescued, one of them -- appear to be a foreigner. he appeared to be bloodied and injured and they are whisked away in a battalion vehicle, probably for treatment. we're hearing that we cannot hear gunfire or explosions at this moment, that doesn't necessarily mean that we've come to the end, perhaps, the groups are regrouping now, we're not sure, but we did find the five people were rescued, one of them a foreigner who appeared to be badly injured. >> do you know, i know this may

be difficult for your correspondent on the scene there. do you know if they have may have escaped in the kay you of the situation. >> that, you know, everything at this point is a possibility. we couldn't confirm one way or the other really. the impression that we're getting is that, you know, the appearance of these five is after the operation began, so. we are assuming that the operation, we cannot say for sure, though. . we haven't been able to ascertain how many people are inside. how many may be within the compound, whether dead or alive. >> and do you know -- >> we were not able -- >> do you know, is there a very -- is there a heavy presence of ambulance and first aid workers. could there be possibly an anticipation by medical

personnel on the scene that as this operation was going to get underway, there could be a sudden spike in casualties. >> i will have to get back to you on that. as of this morning, i couldn't say for sure whether they're still on site. i couldn't say for sure whether the ambulance attend. i'm assuming they would be. they were certainly there last night. >> i'm going to ask you to continue working your sources for us and update us with any more information that you can. let's go back here to malcolm who joins us in the studio. before i cut you off, you were talking about the operation. jim kbrought up a good point. you saw convoys of vehicles

moving towards the scene of this compound, perhaps the element of surprise that one would expect under the cover of darkness removed. >> well, clearly the element of surprise has been removed. this is not prigs tactical where they had a lot of intelligence to work with and infiltrated the team, breached the walls. that where that bakery is, there's a large steel gate there. so they actually had to breach through those walls first, that's why they have the armoured personnel vehicle. they probably just rolled right up to the building under fire try to disgorge, wave the terrorists in that sight. has it ended? did assault fail or have they reached their objective by removing a few or did they do the water borne component and

get some of the wounded hostages. we're not going to know until we actually get intelligence straight from the rab, whether this situation is over with. but that being said, this is less like the old -- like the nairobi west gate shopping mall assault. this is one more like that occurred back in iraq in 2010 the syrian church where al qaeda's predecessor, al qaeda and iraq waited, they waited all night. they taunted the iraqi special forces and the moment that they moved in on that church, it was a massacre and a blood bath. >> and jim, if i can bring you back into this, as we're hearing from the colleague, and it is certainly something that we were familiar with here in our newsroom, you know, about an hour or two ago, some images started to surface online of what various groups were claiming to be victims inside that restaurant. again, although we weren't able

to independently verify, those in bangladesh who have been inside that restaurant, looked at those pictures and said with a certain degree of confidence, they believe those pictures to be authentic and credible. i'm curious if the information obviously reached us, it certainly would have reached the commanders on the ground, would that have changed their calculation? would that have made them say, there is no more time for negotiations, they may be killing people, executing people summerly inside? >> right. well the calculation, first, has to be are the hostages alive. if you get a photograph that shows all the hostages are killed, that takes the urgency of the movement away, then you just have barricaded terrorists. but like you're saying, if the shooting starts and they believe , you know, the on-going murder of hostages is occurring, that's a normal time for commanders to make a decision to move. but if the move is so clumsy and so big and so, you know, movement of ten armoured

personnel carriers down the road on this cul-de-sac toward the water and even as malcolm said, the amphibious vehicles from the rear, it's so big you're not going to be able to rescue all the people if the trigger poll has started some people got out in the chaos or were hidden somewhere. and when the forces moved in, they got away. but think of the sheer terror that they're trying to impart on the world like malcolm described previously in the iraqi church. what they're trying to say you can't rescue these people. we're holding their lives in the balance, you're not doing to be able to get to them. we're going to kill them before you do. and they get all that theater, the timing, the display, now they get it on twitter. they get it across the world on their media sites. this is what they're saying. we're holding these lives in our hand and you can't rescue them. we're more powerful, you're power less. that's the message that they're trying to send.

>> stay with us. i want to cross over thousand back to my colleague who has got more information for us, cal. >> i want to answer a question you sort of posed which is about the ambulance, the medical sort of response to this. local media is reporting that a number of ambulances moved into position shortly before this raid began. perhaps an indication that this was planned to some extent. it's important we remind our viewers bangladesh is a third world impoverished country. there's not likely to be good news at the end of this road and when you look at these pictures, you can see what kind of equipment we're talking about and done a great job laying this out over the last ten hours, these are not the security forces that are were able to take out three suicide bombers and, perhaps, save dozens or even hundreds of lives. so that's something we're watching very closely is not only sort of the movement of the security forces, but the potential that there was return gunfire coming from that cafe,

that's also something that we're hearing that there was an initial burst of gunfire coming from that restaurant, perhaps an indication that some of those attackers with were still -- were still alive. >> i want to cross over to get the thoughts on all of this that is developing. we're hearing, you know, we're getting reports from on the scene that five to six people may have been rescued, including one foreigner who was badly injured being treated locally, not yet sure about the fate of the remaining hostages, we understand at one point, you know, the numbers have varied throughout the course of the evening, at one point as low as 20, certainly dozens remain inside. your thoughts on what is unfolding this morning. i mean, you have family there in dhaka. describe for us what you're feeling and what you think your family is feeling based on your communication with him throughout the evening.

something that we're sieein in this footage, i think we can grab the tangible sense of chaos and everybody is strangling from information. bangladesh is not turkey. it's not like kenya, you can see how ill equipped we are to handle this situation. i mean, there's been nothing that this story has been developing all day. we're seeing tanks roll in. we don't have the resources and the equipment to deal with such a large sophisticated attack. it's terrifying and worrying. forget about my family who i can't reach. the bakery is owned by family friends, i'm getting what's up messages and texts and e-mails on my phone. there's conflicting about maybe some of the owners inside, people we may know.

>> talk to us, when we use the word, s.w.a.t. and police forces, we expect the best of the best, we saw the heroism of the police security forces who shot and, you know, crippled one of the bombers before he was able to get cloeszer to civilians. what can you tell us about the security forces that are currently operating there, you know, the rapid action battalion, is that considered an elite squad of the police force? how are they trained, are they conscripts or professional force? >> what an excellent question, i can't believe i have to answer it. rapid action battalion force, it's a very controversial, elite force unit for the past couple of years they've come under fire

from human rights watch, am nesty international, major international organizations around the world, for human rights violations, deaths in their custody. but they also are one of the most, if not the most powerful security force that we have in the country you talk about america and s.w.a.t. teams and special forces, well, i think the best way to kind of give you a perspective is that bangladesh is probably on the opposite end, far end of the spectrum from where america is. everything that america has, we have little, but yes, we are one of the poorest countries in the world. bangladesh is a development star. we're considered, you know, a development kind of golden star child for slashing on internal mortality. this is a country that really is the where your dollars go to work. at the same time we're a developing country. we don't have forces like

security forces, you know, intelligent forces to really coordinate all of this information for us. i'm not a security expert. i can tell you this will probably not end well. >> so, that's something that we're hearing from various people we've been speaking to tonight. >> we don't have the capacity to deal with it. you're seeing it. >> are you still with us on the phone? >> i am. >> let me get your take in terms of the security lay out of the land in dhaka, you know, when we talk about holidays, there's a beefed up security presence, where we expect there to be tourists and sensitive diplomats or diplomatic missions or compounds, we're going into the end of ramadan, it's about one of the busiest holidays in the islamic calendar. certainly security forces, certainly the government must

have been anticipating a heightened awareness or am i miss reading that, they did not change the security posture as the end of the month of ramadan and the beginning of the holiday season was getting underway. >> well, no, i think it's fair to say that, you know, ahead of every big holiday, you know, the government does speak of security and that is, you know, standard practice. but i was listening to all of the commentary with some interests and i wanted to point one little thing out. it is through the third world country, development super star, all of that is true. what happens here appears, i'm not on site and we're learning a lot about this as time unfolds, we'll be able to see what actually happened and figure out what was right and what was wrong. this is kind of a combination of a shoot up in a movie theater in a hostage taking rolled into

one. it's not easy for somebody to walk into a place and anticipate they may open fire. >> that's what makes it so fear som, the fact that it could be anyplace, anyone, and there is a symbolic element to attacking this particular coffee shop. it was frequented by members of the elite. >> we want to go to another person, we have another guest with us who is on the phone not too far away from the scene of this raid, we're now joined on the phone to someone who lives close to the scene who took place and can describe what she

heard and what she saw. are you there? >> can you tell us where you are in relationship, what can you tell us about what has unfolded there within the past hour or so. >> sure. i feel a -- live a few blocks down the street from the restaurant. they've been sitting at our balcony window and kind of watching and hearing as this unfolded for the last hour, about 50, 55 minutes ago we heard gunfire open it continued for about 10 minutes, very loud rapid gunfire, multiple explosions. it felt like it went on for a really long time. it's about 10 minutes there were some positive followed by more bursts of gunfire and sporadic

explosions. we have seen only two ambulances, right now there's a lot of military and police presence on the street. it's been quiet for the last 15 minutes or so, no one else has been coming out. >> i'm not sure if you can answer this. >> were you able to tell where the explosions were coming from? >> it's hard to tell from where we're at. but it sounded like it was going both ways it was terrifying. >> and you were saying that the you can see a presence, heavy military and police presence.

is the situation chaotic or is the situation under control. >> it seems quite quiet and under control at the moment, over the last hour we've seen various military personnel, as well as vehicles. there seems to be a lot of action ha happening at the moment. whatever happened seem to be over and there are fewer folks in uniform out on the street at the moment, but it is quite chaotic about 20 minutes ago. >> police were addressing the local residents, can you confirm that that did actually happen or have you heard any orders or

being issued to the local residence within the last hour or so as this operation was getting underway? >> we haven't heard. we have heard, the only thing i've heard over the loud speaker it sounded like a prayer, act l actually. >> ult ge -- i'm going to ask you to stick with us and i know it's a lot of uncertainty and a lot of inc. sitety, are you with us? >> i am. >> so let me go back to the point that you were addressing and certainly no one is suggesting that bangladesh somehow should be immuned from things that we've seen happen in europe and happen in the united states and happen even in turkey. but let me go back to the issue of the security forces in terms of their capabilities and,

particularly, this this neighborhood within the capitol. would you say that security had been elevated in anticipation of the holiday there. >> yeah, i mean, every holiday, there is a move to beef up security. >> what would that look like in a neighborhood like this, frequented by diplomats and home to embassies. >> yeah, well, there are no noticeable check points. there are noticeable check points at night and doing --. during the holidays beefed up entrance and exits through the areas and then they're also beefed up on the main highways. just to give context, it's been

beefed up here for almost a year because of these sorts of attacks and the rise of militant attacks in bangladesh. so it's been there. it's been there the right respons response. >> the security forces you know them better than any of us would, do you believe they're competent enough to handle a situation like this. do you recall any in modern history, any situation even similar to this where the police have had to deal with such a coordinated sophisticated terrorist attack? >> so i believe this is the first hostage taking of this magnitude in this country's history. the answer to your question is i couldn't say if they had been adequately prepared for this.

it is true that there's probably a lot more practice required for them. ats's come pretty fast over the last year, a lot of attacks. this is the first of this kind where they've gone in. this hasn't happened before. . this has been an attack and operation at whole different time and i think it's probably fair to assume that, no, there hasn't been adequate preparation, to some extent this is something meaningful that will have to be addressed.

>> all right. >> you've been with us throughout the course. i'm going to ask you to stick around while we get some more updates. i want to cross over to the newsroom. cal, you have some updates? >> just a very quick tick to be, about 40 minutes ago the raid started, about 20 minutes ago everything went silent. that was the point that five hostages came out of the building. what we're not seeing is people running out of the restaurant. we're not seeing a heavy flood of ambulances from the scene. if this was an isis attack and we have this affiliated media claiming, it would be a miracle, right, if there were survivors from this attack. -- as if there were the 11th hour of this operation. >> the point that cal just made, one of the things we're not seeing, we're not seeing a mass exodus of people perhaps in the

compound, what does that suggest to you, that even though we've seen five people rescued among them, a foreigner, we're still not seeing more details or more people leave the scene of that compound where the hostage taking took place at that restaurant. >> it's not a good sign. it goes back to your earlier reporting of the, you know, photographs of stacks of bodies being sent out on the twitter feeds of isis and so forth. normally, if the operation is over and people are rescued or they're wounded, you know, extricated by special operators pretty quick. so that's not a good sign. the five out is a good sign. i mean, nobody can question the heart and the bravery of the police there. nobody can question it. i mean, there was four officers killed. they lost an assistant commissioner, superintendent early on who moved, you know, to try to rescue a hostage. .

it remains to be seen how they did their surgical strike or if it was clumsy, nobody can question their bravery or heart. they may need some training and capability. this is unique situation. this is a challenging event for any special team in the world. our special operations team. our police our military. it's a dhaj for anybody. if anybody gets out af live, it's good news. >> yeah. jim, and you and i have talked about this in the past of isis in terms of their desire, as jim was saying there, malcolm, they're suicidal and homicidal, in a situation like this. this is, and you know, you followed this, as well, isis's m.o. over the course of the last two years that it's risen to prominence. they do not take hostages.

they go into places to kill or be killed. >> right. >> but not to take hostages not to negotiate. they don't have demands, they weren't going to ask for anything. >> this is not just isis, this is the entire jahidim.o., they go in for a suicide hostage barricade. it is a dishonor to be captured and dishonor to come out of this alive. isis is just younger faster better at this game. but now what you see here with the dhaka attack. you see a doctrinal spread doing this at hotels across africa and west africa. now you see them, you know, occurring all over the middle east and now into south asia and even on into east asia. we saw that the exact same type of operation and the only thing that stopped in for example in indonesia was very well aware, you know, law enforcement, same

thing as in turkey. this operation, as jim said a little earlier, you can tell just by the timeline of the gunfire, they initiated their assault. they breached into the facility. they, you know, may have had some sort of shock effect, whether it was the personnel carriers, we do, we slash the place, we have to clear this place of the hostages. usually they're brought out right away, taken into ambulances, identified to make sure that they're not terrorists and that what you see is your victory parade. we have none of that right now. >> i'm not sure if we still have some of those live pictures that we had from the scene, obviously, there has been a live feed that has been re-established further down the road, but it doesn't seem we have that. we were able to see, malcolm, what appeared to be crowds gathering, certainly looking down the road where the operation is taking place. something very similar to this on the outer side of the kor din. what does it tell you if local

residents are feeling safe enough to walk back out. it looked like there were people there that are, you know, watching what is unfolding more so than participating in it. >> sure. i wouldn't give that a lot of, you know, weight, no matter where you are in, you know, the middle east or africa, i've seen people walk up to the aftermath and just stand and look around. this is the exterior perimeter, you can tell by the law enforcement who are there. there's an inner perimeter that's controlled by the raft. they're responding to a certain extent to what they're hearing and seeing. but the locals who are there, there's an apartment building that is completely over that hotel and whether -- we're going to see video out of that at some point, of the actual assault remains to be seen. >> she lives not too far away, a few blocks away. she described this unfolding

sheez why is this something than what we've seen in the past. have similar hallmarks but what's different about it? >> what's different about this is simply they've now entered another country and have moved up from very basic type of attacks, personal assassinations, these knife-wielding machete attacks against bloggers and the silence gun assassination against the italian aid worker to world class, you know, media-grabbing, suicide hostage barricade. now this puts bangladesh in the new isis province. it may inspire other isis groups

that are working their way up the chain. even as isis central was being destroyed, other small groups are now moving into the chaos. >> i'm going to ask you to stick with us. we want to reset for the top of the hour, you're watching us. you're watching msnbc breaking coverage of the dramatic events uncovering in bangladesh. we know that they have launched an operation that freed five of the hostages that are being held in the neighborhood. it began 12 hours ago and then we saw thank tanks moving in and got reports of gunfires and explosions at the scene. what we know now is nine gunman stormed last night local time and dozens of people were inside of the vehicle and according to restaurant employees that are able to escape. more than a hundred commanders assist in the opposition. it's