welcome to the beginning of the end of the e-mail-gate. the final chapter in the endless saga that is the search for clinton malfeasance regarding benghazi. after the investigation into hillary clinton's use of a private e-mail server, the agency finally had a long-awaiting interview with the presidential candidate. yesterday clinton was questioned for three and a half hours at the fbi washington headquarters as the bureau looks to wrap up its probe into whether or not she broke the law by using a private e-mail server while serving as secretary of state. clinton spoke later about her fbi meeting in an exclusive interview with msnbc chuck todd.

>> it was something that i had offered to do since last august. i've been eager to do it. and i was pleased to have the opportunity to assist the department in bringing its review to a conclusion. >> loretta lynch following the dust-up over her chance encounter with bill clinton has accepted the recommendations of federal prosecutors and fbi director jim comby about whether or not to bring any charges. the reporting in news outlets including nbc news indicated by yesterday afternoon that it is likely we'll learn sooner rather than later that no charges will be filed. that is still not yet confirmab confirmable. and director comby has said he is not attached to a timeline for the completion which means it is possible we could still await the final word on e-mail-gate as we head into the democratic national convention.

joining me is death fouhy, and baz ill smikle, from the democratic party, perry bacon jr. and amy kremer, co-founder of women vote trump pact. i'm going to start with you on this, perry. what is our latest nbc news information about whether or not that scuttle butt yet that we're going to hear that there are no charges filed, how much do we know about that? >> we know that a reporting is that it is unlikely charges will be file. but like you said, joy, it is not conclusive yet. and we don't know what the doj will announce and when they will announce it. everyone's expectation is there will be no charges filed but again we don't know the facts or what the investigation has concluded so far. >> and beth, for the clinton campaign, this is good news-bad news. it kept the story in the news this week at the same time,

hillary clinton being interviewed, that should mark the end of the investigation. >> i don't know. i'm going to sad it is bad news-bad news. i think the meeting with loretta lynch, which loretta lynch had to apologize for and say it was bad judgment and one day later secretary clinton getting interviewed by the fbi and it reminds everybody this is still out there and there is this sketchy quality of why are the clintons investigated all of the time and why did bill clinton speak to loretta lynch when he is supposed to be the smartest man in politics. i don't think it is a great moment for the hillary clinton campaign. i think it is looking like it is coming to a conclusion and if the reporting is right, she will escape criminal charges, that is great for the campaign but not where they needed to be at this moment when she was doing better than trump in every other way and it reminds everybody about the discomfort that people have

with the clintons and goes to the polling. >> and let's talk about the 5-minute interview chuck todd had with hillary clinton, talking about the classified material. >> i never received nor sent any material that was marked classified. and there is a process for the review of material before it is released to the public. and there were decisions made that material should be classified. i do call that retroactively classified. so therefore it would not be publicly relieved. >> and so basil, this is the campaign of the hillary clinton campaign and it is true that thus far we heard no information that she sent information classified. there were things that were classified retroactive lit. how much of a drag does this continue to weigh on the hillary

clinton campaign. >> i think it had been early on but to be honest as you indicated earlier, this is the beginning of the end. if you look at the benghazi report that hit earlier in the week with a thud, there is really no reaction to that because i think that the republicans have hinged their presidential hopes on her being criminally indicted and that is why this has come up over and over again. but i think democrats, look, want to put them behind them and she wants to put it behind her and i think the voluntary interview is the beginning of the end. i think we could look forward to the convention in philly without this being on our back. >> and is what basil said true, i'll read you the statement from rns chairman, he said hillary clinton has just taken the unprecedented step of becoming the first major party presidential candidate to be interviewed by the fbi as part of a criminal investigation and that the fbi wanted her for questioning reinforced her

central hole in deliberating creating a culture which put her own political ambitions above state department rules and jeopardized our nation's security. does that affect her in november. >> i don't think anybody is holding out on an indictment so we can win in december. i think the american people deserve to have the answers and i hope the fbi will get to the bottom of it. and the other guests have said this is the beginning of the end. how do you know that? you cannot say that. just last week, within 24 hours after bill clinton met with loretta lynch on the airplane in phoenix, 24 hours later the state department went to a judge and asked for 27 more months to deal with the e-mail to put out -- >> are you making an allegation, that when they were both in the airport was a conspiracy to -- you made that sound like a cause and effect. >> listen to me. let me finish. my point is that when -- the reason the state department went

to the judge and asked for 27 more months because originally they said were four staffers that sent 6,000 e-mails to the clinton foundation and now they come back and say they need 27 more months because there are 34,000 e-mails. there is somhing there. and we need to -- >> what do you think is there? what are you alleging, amy? >> i don't know. but hillary clinton, when she turned over the e-mails to the state department, first of all, why did she delete 30,000 of them, but when she turned them over, the e-mail dated november 10th -- or november of 2010 to yuma abedin said if they have to go with another device that is acceptable, she didn't want her personal e-mail accessible and why didn't she turn that over. >> you created a long convoluted strain, but what is your

allegation. if she didn't want her personal e-mails to abedin or her daughter public, what is the underlying allegation that you are making. >> this is remarkable. when in history have we ever had a potential candidate under investigation by the fbi. imagine if this was trump. >> this is not the target in the investigation of e-mail. >> an fbi -- as james comey said, investigated. 175 agents on this for a year now. that is pretty remarkable. i don't think you waste taxpayer dollars doing -- >> we just had the benghazi investigation which is where this came from. $23 million were spent. one might say that is a strange use of taxpayer dollars. perry bacon, amy has made a long string of allegations that have to do with the e-mail but she didn't get to her underlying charge of what she thinks that

hillary clinton did that is a crime. give us reporting on this. what is the underlying alleged crime that republicans think they will find in the e-mails? >> the short answer is you have to ask them. the chief thing they are concerned about is did she knowingly or unknowingly send classified information through this server. and you heard her answer to chuck todd. she said she did not do that. and that is what we're talking about, is the idea that she -- in some ways threatened our national security. that is what the underlining allegation, if you look at the benghazi report, that is what they are trying to get at. so far, there has not been a lot of evidence of that. we have a lot of investigations, as you said. i do want to reserve judgment. the fbi has been investigating for a long time. they have interviewed more people and the fbi has more power to do this kind of investigation so i do want to reserve judgment until their investigation is over which i think is winding down but we don't know what she said in

those three and a half hours either. so there are more steps to be completed here. >> and joy -- can i say one thing? >> sure. >> regardless of what the fbi comes out with, the polling shows that the american people don't trust her and that is a real problem for her. >> and death, one of the reasons that kevin mccarthy is not speaker of the house is that he said the investigation from where this spring is trying to drive her poll numbers down. i'm not sure that means a whole lot. but in terms of campaign itself, when you hear amy describe what she thinks hillary clinton did wrong it gets into the weeds. is this into the weeds nature underlying allegation by the republicans, that they don't have a specific thing that they are pointing to. >> i think we're seeing here that people have made-up feelings about the clintons and about hillary clinton. either you know her well and you like her, or you don't like her. and right now polling shows she

is ahead of trump in the presidential campaign almost everywhere. which is good for hillary clinton and shows that perhaps some of the haters who are -- will always hate her and everything that we're discussing now is prepared for that, people that will never like her or vote for her. but the real question is where independents stand. they still have discomfort with the issue of trust and what is going on here. those people will vote. and they've shown openness to donald trump in the past. so that is the swing situation. whether they care enough to go to the polls and vote against her for this. >> absolutely. and quickly, i do think that they will end -- at the end of the day support hillary clinton. because we could also talk about donald trump's unfavor ability numbers. that is around 70%. and when you look at his leadership, which i think is both inconsistent and incoherent and full of conspiracy theories. >> but at the end of the day -- >> hillary clinton is a more solid leader in this race.

>> but the comparison, i'm not sure i'm donald trump, but that is not a good comparison -- we'll be back later in the show. we'll have more news ahead. but before we go to break, we want to note the tributes pouring in for the authorely wisel, who dedicated his life to fightingin justice around the world. he died yesterday at age 78. president obama hailed him as the great moral voices of our time and the conscious of the world. former president clinton and hillary clinton said in words and deeds he bore witness and build a monument to memory to teach the living and generations to come the perils of human indifference. and benjamin netanyahu said in the darkness of the holocaust he served as a ray of light and example of humanity that believes in the goodness of man.

it's essential that we stop terrorists from getting the tools they need to carry out the attacks. >> we have to fight so viciously and violently, because we're dealing with violent people. vicious people. >> the third area that demands attention is preventing radicalization. >> they probably think we're weak, we're stupid, we don't know what we're doing. we have no leadership. you know, you have to fight fire with fire. since the orlando massacre in june, the bombing of a turkish airport on tuesday, and the attack in bangladesh on friday, terror has recentered the realm of politics. both have discussed their strategies but which do americans trust more to combat

terrorism. according to a poll released this week. 50% trust clinton and 39% have more confidence in trump. joining me now, malcolm nance, author of defeating isis and how they fight and what they believe and steve clemons at large for the atlantic. great duo here. and so those numbers on who americans trust more surprised some people because donald trump is doing the tough talk, the strong-man talk. it appears from that poll that hillary clinton is more of a sober take at least for now is winning. >> a lot of what donald trump is saying that he would enact, most people would breed more terrorism or more problem out there. this notion of an eye for an eye that we're going to be head or execute or torture people and use that as a model to deter terrorism is an unhinged one. hillary clinton is saying let's look at what produced jihadist at home and abroad and use social media and create the way

people are evolving in this country so they don't go down that track, in addition to layering very, very intensive intelligence. so it is a systems approach hillary is propagating and donald trump is just -- i don't know what he's -- >> one of the ironies that i find about donald trump is that he comes out four square against the bushes, against the neo-cons and the iraq war, whatever his views were at the time and one of the features of the iraq war that turned americans against it and against the idea of what we were doing there was torture, was the fact that it was revealed at what we did at the prison, the horrible pictures and even the cia and pentagon said don't release those pictures, it will create more terrorism and after donald trump is the anti--neo-con guy and this is what he said about bringing back one of the worst features of the bush administration era. take a listen. >> we have laws to uphold.

we have laws. they don't have laws. we can't do waterboarding, but they can drop off heads and drowning people in steel cages or do whatever they want to do and they eat dinner like us. can you imagine them sitting around the table or wherever they are eating their dinner talking about the american -- [ inaudible ]. >> john mccain, the guy who still wishes we were in iraq and continued the iraq war forever, that is what he said about that. this is john mccain. >> according to jean eva convention it is a -- geneva convention, it is a crime. and if you are not into academies and history, it doesn't work. and any military leader that i know, in fact, i had a conversation with general petraeus just a few days ago

said that it doesn't work. because if you inflict enough pain on someone, that person will tell you whatever they think that you want to hear. >> malcolm, your witness. >> well, john mccain is absolutely right. but let's take this back. let's pretend like we are interested in history and understand some things. general george washington, in his orders of 1774 and 1777 set the standard for the u.s. armed forces in the ethical and lawful treatment of prisoners. gem washington's orders had always, up until the iraq war, been considered standing orders not to be violated. it set the pace for the values of the american fighting man. the places that i taught survival for terrorism and terrorism and torture, we fought -- we fought people that would come up and question whether there was efficiency in torture. but more important to that, we had to emphasize that these values were paid for in the blood of thousands and thousands of dead u.s. servicemen.

john mccain not only was a hero for fighting in the vietnam war and survived the horrific catastrophe and he was shot down and landed in the middle of a lake in hanoi and beaten senseless and taken and tortured for years and doesn't have to go to general petraeus to tell us torture doesn't work and he paid for it with his own pain and blood and sweat and tears and anybody that wants to run for president of the united states and will compromise 240 years of values, including washington's orders, should not even be in a position to be considered for president. >> and steve, this is a guy, donald trump, who got multiple deferments so he didn't have to go to vietnam who is saying, the generals will do it, even if it is illegal or a war crime. i'll tell them to do it and they'll torture people. in this business, we have to watch a lot of gruesome things. i've watches some of the isis beheading videos and the steel cage burning video where they burned a jordanian pilot alive.

the thought of americans doing things like that because it is an eye for an eye is shocking to the conscious. but donald trump said it and people cheer for him at rallies. >> donald trump seems to be unaware of what the powers and the authorities of the president are and how they've been framed. and not only what malcolm shared about with washington orders and a lot of checks and balances have been built into the system. it doesn't mean there aren't abuses. but trump looks at this as a monarch and those could have execution of responsibilities without regard for accountability and say war crimes that we just talked about. and even at the worst, in my view, of what was going on in afghanistan and iraq and a lot of abuses and concerns, donald rumsfeld wrote a memo and he questioned whether we were creating conditions that were --

that we're creating more terrorists in the field than we were taking out and he began to look at and said are we in a vicious cycle where our own behavior is breeding counter reaction and assistance and it could be good for donald trump to read those moments because when you talk the way he does, it sends a shiver around the world, you talk to young people today both at home and others who happen to be muslims or any other complexion of american and they feel as if they may not belong to this country if they were to become president and that is when you need to begin worrying about security and whether your people are with you. the one thing that hillary clinton talked about is we need our muslim community here and abroad to be our allies and that is important and donald trump said they are our enemies. an that is a dangerous, dangerous statement to be making. >> let me make a quick point. isis does not set the standard for how the u.s. american

fighting man behaves on the battlefield. we have to act within the bounds of our honor. and i call this a crisis of honor. because right now that is a point on this election campaign that is uncompromisable. we should not be having this discussion. but on another point, we should not be lauding and admiring how isis murders people and trying to emulate them or shooting for, as i call it, the nazi merit badge for torture. this is what the gestapo used and the north koreans -- and he praised them. and we do not adopt the values of our enemies. we went down that path one. director brenner said the cia will never do that again. and there is not a person in the armed forces that will carry out that order. it is an unlawful order. it is written in there since the massacre, that we cannot do these things. >> malcolm and steve, thank you, both. couldn't ask for a better people

to have this discussion with. and up next, we're going to make quite a turn because we are going to talk about the soda tax popping up in pennsylvania. that is what we call a turn. stay with us. ...check out all these w entrees. like new coastal lobster and rimp... ...with summer alethese barbeque sauce, ...and new lobster and shrimp overboard. overboard? nah, ...it's just right. so hurry in. msame time tomorrow, fellas!? new dr. scholl's stimulating step insoles. they massage key pressure points with each step, for all day comfort that keeps you feeling more energized. dude's got skills. new dr. scholl's stimulating step insoles.

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and the beverage industry amounted it would amount to a tax on the poor. rehema ellis asked the mayor about that. >> what do you say to your critics that call this is a regressive tax and say that it will hurt poor communities. >> it is hypocritical because the big companies have been marketing to poor for generations. >> other cities could example their example so i want to know, do you think it is a good way to fight obesity or fund education or is it a tax on the poor. go to our web page to vote and we'll tell you the results later on the show. and up next, donald trump's invitation to the convention is shrinking by the day. we'll tell you who is in and who is out after the break. if i may shift gears for a moment, gentlemen, coach ditka versus the hurricane, who would win? >> ditka. >> hold on, hold on. the name of the hurricane is

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or expand your office and take on whatever comes next. find out how american express cards and services can help prepare you for growth at open.com. so you do endorse him. >> i endorse the american people. and the american people choose him. >> donald trump is not a racist. people are rejecting the establishment and the rejecting the government and the politician and so we'll see what happens, because i'm with the people, no matter which way people go. i'm for the people and by the people and my [ inaudible ]. >> don king is a big-time donald trump supporters. so could we see him as a speaker at the gop convention in a couple of weeks. maybe. with a trump a nominee, the four days promises to be an

unconventional convention. and trump said the speaking slots are filled and he is considering inviting crowd pleasers like don king and serena williams and dana white. and while former chicago bears coat and trump supporter mike ditka was asked and said the event is not his style. and who else is not coming. prominent members of the gop. they are noticeably and painfully missing. not even john kasich will participate despite the convention being held in his own state. that isn't stopping the 50,000 people expected to pour into cleveland, including protesters, membersf white supremacist groups and more. now given that ohio is np open carry -- an open carry state, firearms are permitted in the protest zone but not in the arena and some delegates plan to bring their guns for fear of protest and isis. and the group tasks with keeping

the spectacle in good order, the cleveland police have been probed twice still reeling from the shooting death of 12-year-old tamir rice. back on set is beth fouhy and david corn. and david you are new to the panel so i'll go to you first. the idea of having entertainers, prominent republicans, no. and including the governor of ohio. does that mean anything for trump or is that just embarrassing for the party. >> i think right now when the ultimate political reality show, you could say that about the whole campaign but certainly about the convention, but i've talked to republicans that work on the convention in past and they say it is complete chaos and disorder behind the scenes. i don't think the speaking slots have been filled up and i don't think they know who is talking when and donald trump who said he doesn't want to grandstand. right. so i think a lot of republicans

who care about this are on pins and needles because they have no idea what this convention will look like. inside of the hall or outside of the hall, with nazi and white sem recommend sifts cheering on trump and others protesting. it should be chaotic. >> and amy, your plans that are i'm assuming supporting the republican nominee, how are you and others feel being this convention going in. >> i'm excited about the convention. and i think that what will happen is you'll probably have more people tune into the republican convention than ever before. just like with the debates that donald trump participated in during the primary. and look, those politicians, the establish. elite that aren't going to be there, joy, they won't be missed. they were there the past two conventions and how well that did work out for john mccain and mitt romney and so it is a good thing to change-up and it is bringing about excitement within the base and that is a good

thing. now what we don't know is what will happen with these that are sitting on the side lines and the trump crowd and what they are going to try and pull. at the end of the day, donald trump will be the nom un -- nominee. i don't know how you can disen franchise 14 million voters. >> and does it worry you that people are bringing guns and -- does that worry you at all. >> there is no violence. >> at at rallies -- >> the violence has been committed -- on the outside. look at what happened in jose when the eggs were thrown. >> they were started by donald trump. >> protesters inside, you remember that, joy, people started throwing punches and donald trump said i'll pay for the lawyers. >> wait a second. he said it needed to top. there should be no violence. >> when? >> the thing about it is, is that you know what, these people probably take their guns

everywhere any way and you don't know about it. it is not like they are going there -- you can't take them into the convention center. the secret service is going to be there. probably the most secure place you could be. i don't know why everybody is so worried. these people probably take their guns with them everywhere so it is the state law so it is a fact. >> beth, you are covering this with me. i'm a little stunned. are you concerned? as journalists, we are going there. to me, the mix of white supremacists, people toting guns into a convention hall, none of those things phased amy. do they phase you? >> as you know, we're getting some security training here at nbc to be ready for this. look, it is a very different kind of convention for sure. there is always protests at conventions. we could imagine this is a different level of protests and we're going to be covering it as a story different than we'll cover the protests in philly when we've been told bernie sanders supporters will come and protest hillary clinton.

so yes, it is a different convention that we are looking at for sure with trump. and not just because of the protests. we're looking at the fact that not many republicans will be there and his children will be steering the boat. his family seems really nice. ivanka and her brothers and children will be prominently displayed and melania, we haven't seen much of her and whether she speaks and the vice presidential nominee, the person that trump chooses and that is the big surprise of course, we expect. >> newt gingrich. >> or chris christie. so there is a lot of chatter around that, too. but it is not the typical convention. >> and david corn, i have to read this -- did you want to say something quickly. >> no, go ahead and read. >> at one point. two aides confirmed that mr. donald trump was not even aware that the event had to be made in cleveland. and when he saw the drawings for the stage, didn't like the

stage. and he kicked around proposals about how to make his grand entrance and he nixed the idea of arriving on a train but landing on a helicopter and discussed the idea of having fireworks in the arena but can't have fireworks in an arena. and david corn, wow. >> and a band playing the theme song for trump university. i mean there is so much -- he brings so much baggage. he also is a show-man. and he is a giant nas issist and egotist. and this is like nothing we've ever seen. and as i've said, the plans are so far behind schedule. we are only a few weeks out. it is really hard to see how they are even going to get all of the balloons in. maybe he doesn't want a balloon drop. it may not be big enough for him. but at the end of the day, he will still have to get tlup and perfo -- and he will have to get up there and perform like a

candidate. and his performances have never rich to the level of an acceptance speech and i'm curious to see if he will get out there and give an acceptance speech with five word sentences, no word longer than two, and just say sad, sad, lame, lame. and he is in an arena in which he's never performed and it will be interesting. >> and we're having fun with it. but does it concern you that this doesn't turn out that whatever the spectacle turns out to be, that people will be proud. is there something you could feel you could be proud of. >> first of all, joy, i want to make it clear, there will be no gun s in the convention center. you talked about them in the convention hall. they are not allowed there. that is number one. but thankfully, it is not what people in the media and the political class think, it is what the american people think. and the fact of the matter is that donald trump has their support. they are tired of the status quo.

they are tired of the political elite living by -- different set of rules than we the little people. and so while you guys can make fun of him because he doesn't -- >> why is it -- is his unfavorable ratings so high. you talk about the american people. >> let me finish. will you let me finish. i didn't interrupt you. can you let me finish. i didn't interrupt you. >> go ahead. >> the fact of the matter is, it is time we start choosing the leaders by what they are able to do and what their track record said and not by reading from a teleprompter. people across america are sick of it. and so yes, you know what -- >> amy, we have to go. we're out of time. i appreciate that. and one of the problems is what donald trump has been able to do. we are looking back at his business records and people like bar fights but it doesn't mean that is the way you elect a next president. and we'll have more on this in our next hour and with beth. and coming up, chris hayes is

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we are witnessing the deterioration of civilization. and we're coming out of the [ inaudible ]. unless you think it came out of nowhere, know that the worldwide struggle between the elite and the working class was predicted by my colleague chris hayes, and i spoke with him earlier this week. >> chris hayes, thank you for being here. >> it is a pleasure. >> so four ars ago you wrote this book. did you have a krystal -- a

cristal ball. and what does it mean. >> it means there is a huge failure in the last decade, from iraq and the financial crisis and katrina and widespread. and there is two different camps coming out of the failure. so there are people among the public that have the lowest level of trust in history and the institutionalists who say the problem here is the lack of trust and we need to trust the institution and convince them they are trustworthy and the problem is not the lack of trust, the institutions are failing and they need to be torn down. >> and the interesting thing in this particular moment is you just had a prime on the democratic side and hillary clinton couldn't be more of a institutionalist and thein sur reconciliati reconciliationalist bernie sanders. and the other person in the room is barack obama who in terms of

the metrics did not fail. >> i talk about in the book, i say, you got this president, i'm writing this in 2011, 2012, and has done well in the system he's in. the economic recovery and the problem is the structural forces driving the sense of unheease, particularly in equality is hard to get at. and so he's done a lot to improve the -- and by all met c metrics i think he is a exceptional president. and when you think of where are wages for the middle class and around the western world, that still remains the driving force of the alienation when you have institutions and leadership performing much better than in the last ten years. >> when you have a institution when the backlash to that is one donald trump, how much of that anti-institutional direction do you put down to inequality and

to people's actual lives and their economic lives and how much is down to race. because that is another big element. >> this is a big fight. what do we call this thing and how much do we call it racism, and how much do we call it naturalism or economic anxiety. there is this joke that brian boytler had which is very funny but at in time there is a racist sign at a trump rally, look at how economically interested the person is. and look, it is funny. there is an enduring and beating and vibrant force of white accept recommend assy that courses through american history and it is part of our politics at any particular moment. there is a question of how empowered that is and how many people are drawn to its message and i don't think that is baked in. sometimes it is more or less attractive to people. in moments of feeling alienated, frustrated and downtrodden, history shows not just in the

american context, that is right times for demagogs. that is true for the 1930s. was germany a massively anti-semitic place before the holocaust? absolutely. 100% yet. were the conditions of the '30, when the economic problem with vienna, part of what brought nazis to power, it could be both. >> and we're seeing that happening in england. england is the place from which we were born and this country is born and it is a lot like us, in terms of the ethnic midst, it is just like our electorate and with brexit, how does that play into this? >> there is a chart which you could probably show which is an amazing chart and it had 15 institutions, who do you trust and people who voted to remain, some they trusted, do you trust

actor? no. academics? yes. the whole chart is on one side. it is no one. it is the perfect example. you had all of the people, all of the titans of finance, you had both parties in leadership, economists, foreign leaders, all saying this is a terrible idea, don't do this. and we don't believe you. we do not believe you. and so fundamentally, that was a perfect example where you brought in the experts, you appealed to people's sense of well, listen to them and they said, no, we don't believe you. and the thing that it connects it to is the kind of white working class of england, their version of real america, called little england, which voted overwhelmingly to leave, are undergoing the same kind of forces. both in terms of how they feel about race and supremacy and immigration and the material impacts on their lives.

and there there is one more added feature. unlike barack obama, david cameron grounded that country in austerity. and in an in tensional way. the irony is that it was that that created the predicate in the background. >> and the big lie told by the campaign was that the money would go back into what cameron cut which was the national health service. >> and the bus that said that we give the eu $350 million a week, it was a perfect example of a strain you see in trump, which is we want the welfare state for us. we're not here reading freed raw kayak and mildred freedom and talking about the invisible hand and how the play system finds -- no, we want that stuff and for ourself. >> in this country, the person who is presenting what he said is the answer to this was bernie sanders with his campaign. you interviewed bernie sanders on your shown on "all in" and

what do you see his campaign and you didn't see the answer in the primary, in the white working class people and so where does he take -- >> i don't know that he knows the answer. the short-term is they want to get as many platforms as possible until that is locked. that is the short-term tactical approach. after that, i don't think they know. and there is an interesting piece by the labor leader and he said was, during the years of clintonism and blair-ism, it was hard to survive as someone with bernie sanders politics and so they are not people that are used to building huge movements or being bartered in big coalition, they are used to being alone. because they kind of had to be to survive with their politics. they were iconoclast when everyone was going in the opposite direction and they

don't believe in that when i'm doing it alone. that does not give you the greatest tools to build the kin of movement that could possiy be built out of what happened. so i think it will be a real test for him as a person and as a politician. >> your next book is on mass incarceration. >> exactly. policing and democracy and some of the stuff on my show called a colony in the nation. and the way it is about democracy and where it goes right and wrong. >> and that is the fundamental first contact people have is with local government called police. >> there is a reason that we use the term "police state". >> and you should be watching. so much in our next hour. candidates vying to be the hillary clinton vice president and the trump tweet that still has america talking. stay us. more "am joy" is coming up. go chris. after a long day,

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i would like to ask one question before i begin. we need your help, yes. the question was should i -- should he be vice president? any way -- it is a hell of a job. get a big pay raise. it is all worth it. >> vice president booiden tryin to get information from gingrich on whether he plans to replace him and it is a question on the mind of hopefuls this ekend. and some of the names on the hillary clinton short list showed up for audition day. brown, labor secretary tom perez and bassera all made the rounds giving the best performance as the role of the clinton running meat. each had a turn on the hot seat

tackling the questions by whoever takes the number two spot on the ticket. but there is one more question i have about the four potential political picks, do they have the range. and joining me now is beth fouhy and basil smikle, from the democratic party and nbc news senior reporter perry bacon jr. and let's find out who has the range. and i want to play for you some dodging the question on whether they are the vp pick. take a listen. >> do you want to be? >> that is a question that has to be asked of secretary clinton. >> i'm just referring questions about the vice president to the woman that should have to make this decision. >> have you been contacted or vetted by the campaign? >> i'm simply not going to speculate. >> you have been contacted. >> to those questions. i'm not going to speculate. -- >> i'm not asking you to

speculate. have you been contacted? >> i understand. you heard my answer. that is what you are going to get. >> beth? >> well what i'm struck by, i'll say the exact same thing, that is what the clinton campaign is telling them to say. you think there could be more artful ways to ask the question, like you would, joy. you say, what have you supplied to the campaign for them to go over your personal records. but let's face it. they are being told not to talk about it. it is smart, even though they are not giving away what the vetting process is for each of them, to go on the shows and audition, like how well do they hold up under questioning and how well will they represent this campaign on television in these type of settings. we know hillary clinton does not do a lot of those shows. so one of the roles of her running mate is taking that position. and these -- these morning shows are a good way to test how everybody does. >> and perry, and you and i are veterans where we've had the conversation about what it is

that the democratic party needs most and which part of the base they need to excite most and take for granted and there is the theory of the feeling they have black and brown voters but they need to fix the white guy problem. what do they think they need the most in a vp. >> if you listen to her comments in the last week, it is wanting to broaden out but want to make sure republicans and people are weary of trump, she is trying to build a big tent party to me. she sounds like she wants to appeal to moderate republicans and appeal to the mitt romney crowd and that to me sounds like more tim kaine and less elizabeth warren, that is what i think i'm hearing. even though they campaigned with warren the other day, if you are trying to build the party, not just a big win, but a win all over with the electoral votes all over the place and a person

that could win a state for you. and you hear the idea of want you to keep the senate and kim cain leader replaced by terry mcauliffe, a democratic governor, like booker being replaced by a governor. >> and you with our democratic strategist at the table, you have to account for this and i feel like the democratic party is a tick and the tick is they have to get white suburban voters and they lose is basic excitement. so we have the liberals and where are they going to go and we have the blacks and the hispanics and where are they going to go and they don't worry about them until six weeks out and scramble to the churches and try to speak on first sunday. does the democratic party again risk casing after suburban white voters who are core republicans, even if their independent, they lean republican and doing that to the exclusion of exciting their base.

>> i may take issue with that only because i think if you watch hillary clinton over the last several months and working for her, she has always campaigned in and talked about policies geared toward communities of color. >> do you see excitement in the base. >> i do think there is excitement. i saw her in the bronx and brooklyn and queens. there is excitement there. but to the other part of your question, what i heard in this campaign cycle is there hasn't been a message for middle class or working class white men. there needs to be a white male economic message. i don't know how true that is. but i do think that going to perry's earlier point, that tim kaine, if you have a lot of republicans now saying that they want to support hillary clinton, tim kaine might be the one to bring more of them over. >> let me ask you this question real quick and then i'll bring beth and perry back in. democrats have not won white male voters since lyndon johnson. how is tim kaine going to

magically change that equation when joe biden didn't get white men mass to vote and even bubba, was not able to win a majority of white male voters what magic causes white men to say i'm going to stop voting republican for the first time in my life. >> i don't think there is magic there. i do think you have a lot of republicans, whether it is rank and file republicans or republican leadership that is saying we can't vote for donald trump. i don't think there is magic there. i think cory booker would be a fantastic choice because he is great on tv, he is actually very energizing -- >> [ inaudible ]. >> and chris christie would replace him. >> and that is the other problem. and my one concern is the longer that bernie sanders sort of doesn't go out there and endorse and campaign with her, that you may see someone like an elizabeth warren rise to the top more. someone that could excite the

base. sherrod brown does that as well. and that is my one concern. my one concern is we need more party unit and for bernie sanders to come and bring his supporters over. >> does the hillary clinton campaign have to buy -- how do be thet elizabeth warren for free? >> think they get her her free. she will campaign for the hillary clinton campaign no matter what. and i don't think the problem is discounting the white men, but they are discounting that donald trump is on the other side and that will motivate black and brown people to vote because he said such hateful and aggressive things about their communities. hard to say that is 100% of a strategy though, right. we don't have the first black president on the ballot any more which is so motivating for so many people. do you want to just make the assumption that the base will turn out to vote against your opponent and for you and that is a little bit different of a calculation. >> and perry, i go back to this

question of why it is that warren is dismissed out of hand by so many political insiders, because, listen, if bernie sanders is not going to get out there and make an affirmative and aggressive case on behalf of hillary clinton, elizabeth warren does an expert job at it and does a brilliant job for it and is great at social media but for quiting world class vote ieers to fight administration on wall street on behalf of the person. and i don't see liz warren and somebody who does that and not jb who would double down -- >> and you asked me who hilry clinton would pick. a safe politician. tim kaine is the safe vote just like joe biden was. and whether it is brown or mansion or others, it does seem to me we're moving to a country

where the parties are split and you need to get your base out as much as possible. and what does cory booker get more minorities out or liz wedge warren for women or whether warren has appeal with other blocks of the electorate as well, i think it is a more interesting and exciting pick could help her like broaden -- i think it is going to be a base election and a lot of people who are distant republicans may stay home. they won't vote for hillary clinton and i don't think tim kaine will make them do so. i think your analysis is right, but i'm not sure if you listen to hillary's rhetoric, republicans could vote for me, and e-mails are republicans don't like trump and come to me and they view the campaign and maybe they could get the base and republicans, too. i'm not sure of that. >> i want to play one more bit of sound from the audition day and this is the other thing that i think, panel, that the vp will be called on to do which is fill in on the trust issue that hillary clinton faces, at least

if you look at the polls. let's take a listen. >> i think the secretary has made it clear. she understands she has to earn people's trust. she's going to work very hard to do that. and i give her credit for saying she's made mistakes. >> what i have seen working with secretary clinton is that she is a steady hand. judgment is what it is all about. and i think she has exercised sound judgment throughout. >> i trust hillary clinton in part, for a whole lot of reasons. in it part, because i know how she started her career advocating for the children's defense fund, she didn't go off to manhattan or to washington to make a lot of money. >> and just from the point of view being a politician, brown has a advantage and we don't know much about the campaigner, and do any of those stand out as somebody that could be able to build up the trust factor for hillary clinton. >> i think having validators of all shapes and sizes for hillary clinton is what she needs and they are working off the same talking points, again with their

answer about whether they are being vetted for vp. i'm with perry, i feel like hillary clinton at this point just basically wants to do no harm. they are so far ahead in almost every measure against trump. why bring in a vice presidential nominee or contender who would potentially disrupt that in any way, possibly in a good way but possibly not. i think that is why she wants to stay safe. that is why she is ahead. >> no wild cards. stay safe. guy perry. >> there is a value important. the one on tuesday. i do think the president coming out and saying i trust this person who i spent all eight year as tacking and -- eight years attacking and saying was dishonest, but it will help her with people of color, michelle obama and the president could tell a story about how i went from being someone very skeptical of hillary clinton to someone who trusts her and had her -- and i think that is useful for her. it won't move a lot of republicans. it may move the base in an

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there was a major ruling on voting in a key swing skate state this week. in ohio, a judge ruled against the aclu and other groups and upheld those who have not voted since the 2008 election. the judge sited with john hust ed, deciding if it is in alliance with the laws.

and the case underlines the obstacles to vote. reverend al sharpton spoke about voting registration and rights yesterday at a festival in new orleans and one of the largest gatherings of black americans of the year. >> don't underestimate us. don't look down at us. every time you knock us down, we got up again. get up, black man. get up, black women. it is our time. it is our day. we're not finished yesterday. >> and reverend al sharpton joins me now from new orleans. and rev, people who have not had the opportunity to speak should get themselves to wherever you are going to be at an essence festival or wherever you are and the importance is reminding people we can't take for granted that right to vote. that ruling in ohio went bad for voters in ohio. how much jeopardy do you feel

that the voting rights are without the voting rights act. >> i think we're in serious jeopardy and one of the deceiving things about the polls is that we are polling people who are in many cases may be denied their vote. you have to remember, in three states, kansas and alabama and georgia, they are even saying we want proof of citizenship along with your photo i.d. you see the ruling in ohio. so what i wanted to do at the theetence festival which -- at the essence festival which is one of the gathering of blacks and the largest in the summer, is saying, wait a minute, we need to check registration and nonprotestant and keeping the achievements barack obama has done as president and dealing with many of us are saying isn't is it great we have affordable

health care and president obama cut unemployment in half and isn't it great we're seeing a dial-back on the industrial prison complex and if we are not out there voting for president and state and city and congressional representatives, all of that will go out of the window. and i wanted to lay that out here in essence and also say that let's remember there are new rules in many states to voting. we can't wait until election day to show up if we are not in advance prepared for the impediments we're going to face. >> and rev, does it concern you, that we've heard a lot of issues brought up during this presidential primary process, everything from trade, everything from income inequality and et cetera, one of the things we didn't hear about during the democratic primary was the voting rights act and a push for voter disenfranchisement have democrats waited too long to get on this issue?

>> i think they have and that is why we wanted to kick it off here. i was talked with ohio state representative alicia reese is on the platform committee and on the board of national action network and she's trying to get democrats to understand this is an issue, this can determine in some states where that state is going to go. not by who is polled, but by who can vote. and if you deny people their right to vote based on voter i.d. and citizenship proof which the studies say clearly disproportionately blacks and browns don't have the required photo i.d., then you are going to be in for a surprise in some close races. isn't it interesting, joy, and i raised this many my speech yesterday, that the same people that want these photo i.d. for us to vote don't want background checks for us to own guns. i mean, there is something contradictory about that.

you don't need all of this to have a gun. we don't need to have a background check for you to have guns. but we need to have all kind of guarantees for you to vote. this is a political strategy and we need to deal with it across the board in a nonpartisan but aggressive way. >> in some states like texas is easier to show up with your concealed carry permit than with your i.d. if it has your married name on it. there are crazy laws. we just showed a map of the states with new voting restrictions. a lot of them are swing states, places like ohio and north carolina that are swing states. but you see across the south, the former states of the confederacy deeply ingrained voter restrictions which is still where a majority of the african-american lives. is there an issue that only matters in the swing states where democrats could pull off a win or do democrats need to get back into the south and start relooking at laws even in places

where democrats are unlikely to win in november. >> they need to get back in the south and deal with this. because the presidential campaign map is not the only thing at stake here. those state representatives, those senate races, those county and city representations, say you want the person to win, wins the white house, it still has to come down through the states and counties on how you deal with budget items and criminal justice. i said to someone here in new orleans yesterday, everyone wants to know who trump or who clinton will have as a running mate. i want to know who the attorney general is going to be and how are we going to continue turning back mass incarceration and then who will be appointed u.s. attorney. all politics is local. and the fact that we're not raising these issues from the bottom up is a deep concern to me and deep peril to those that always suffer disproportionately. >> and we're also seeing the courts now taking up cases of

gerrymanderi gerrymandering, in the state of north carolina, with the offense coming up back up in 2020, talk about the concern about bleaching, that african-american and hispanic voters are packed into districts so the surrounding districts could become more republican and should we think about the courts and including the supreme court as cases like that go up the chain. >> you must be concerned. because as you talk about what they are referring to as bleaching, where they are stacking us into certain districts so they could have all of the surrounding districts, which stacks the congress, which is why a lot of them are saying we're not worried about the congressional seats because they have put these districts -- and they are continuing to do that. that is all determined by who is going to fill out the next one or two seats that become available in the supreme court. and if we do not have the right supreme court justices, just like brown versus the board of education changed education and race for half a century,

whatever is decided now will change for half a century going forward. and let us not forget that it was that, that took out the meat from the voting rights act and congress has yet to come back with a new map which is what they really eliminated in the last december in the fishing case. and what the shock when martin luther king iii and i came for that case and sat in oral arguments is there weren't many people coming. and we went outside and they had a demonstration and couldn't get my allies. we have to fight on the real issues that matter and voting this time matters because it is going to determine the supreme court, it is going to determine the implementation of what barack obama has done as president, is going to determine all of the things that we claim that we're concerned about. we do not need a flare-up to get organized. we need to stay organized, which is why i want to put -- and be here to help put some purpose in

this party. hundreds of thousands of people are here, we need much more than that going out to vote and make sure they can vote. >> absolutely. reverend al sharpton, our colleague here at nbc and head of the action network in new orleans at the essence festival talking about voting rights. good to see you. >> thank you. >> thank you. and still to come, tweet and delete. donald trump is back at it. but first marvel stakes a swing at the -- takes a swing at the republican nominee. that is next. even well fitting dentures let in food particles. just a few dabs of super poligrip free is clinically proven to seal out more food particles so you're more comfortable and confident while you eat. so it's not about keeping my dentures in, it's about keeping the food particles out. try super poligrip free.

return to me again empty handed -- >> our friends at marvel appear to be jumping into the 2016 campaign. this week they debuted modac, short for mental organism designed as american king. and has a striking resemblance to donald trump and they plan to

rule america. he is fighting a female rival of his own, that world's time traveling nazi fighting beyonce loving, captain america samantha wilson. fight on, cap. country. the us postal service. priority: you ♪

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stay strong. stay active with boost®. it seems like donald trump has offended nearly everyone in 140 characters or less and it happens this week when he attacked hillary clinton calling her the most corrupt candidate ever with the image of her next to a six-pointed star over a pile of money. twit erupted with some critics interpreting it as a ant semitic use of the star of david. trump quickly deleted his tweet and replaced it with one of a circle, but thanks to some speedy screen savers it lives on as a misstep by the nominee. trump has been known to re-tweet

apparent neato nazis and this year he would not affirm david duke, claiming he didn't know who he was. back with me are perry, and david corn and amy kremer. and trump will tweet something and usually he doesn't delete and this one he delete. and even people on the right, the eric ericsons of the world were horrified by this tweet. what do you make of it. >> joy, honestly, i think it was probably a staffer that made that name and gave it to them and probably didn't think any of it and he got back loosh and he deleted it and -- backlash and deeted it and put in -- and he's damned if he does or doesn't. and those who want to go after him will attack him for anything and everything they possibly can because they want to stop him. and so i don't know what -- he's not perfect.

he's not -- a perfect human being. yes, it was a misjudgment, a slight error on the campaign. but you know what, so was bill clinton meeting with loretta lynch on the airplane. >> amy -- >> yes. >> i don't think -- >> trump is not anti-semitic or a racist and that is what really matters. >> first of all, there is no literally no equivalence between running into somebody in the phoenix airport in your private plane. >> you don't run into somebody. i'm a former flight attendant. >> hold on. we're not changing the topic to bill clinton. i want to ask you a follow-up question whether making this a conversation about bill clinton. this is offended many, many people of the jewish faith. it is an incredibly ugly stereo type tweeted out here. if this was a staffer, does it bother you that donald trump has people on his staff to create

stuff like this and allowing them to tweet out this and not only this but neato na -- neo-n stuff before. >> and trump is not anti-semitic. all of the candidates are responsible for their staff. i don't know what happened to that staffer. i'm not sure how it happened. i'm not part of the campaign. but the people that found it offensive, he changed it. i don't know what else you could do. it was a slight error on behalf of the campaign and what else can you say. move on. in the whole extreme of things, i don't think a tweet will make that big of a difference. his daughter converted to judaism and -- and to call her -- that is a far, far stretch. >> david corn, let me let you in here. >> well, you know, we know it is a report today that this wasn't made up by trump staffer. but that actually was found on a

white supremacist site. so yet again, yet again material being generated by racist nazis and bigots have been used by trump on his own personal twitter account. one time, amy, one time might be a mistake but this happens again and again. and i don't know why decent people like you are not troubled by the fact that neo-nazis, white supremacists, people like david duke are coming out in droves to support donald trump. if i was saying was being seconded again and again by bigots and white nationalists i might stop to pounder why that is -- ponder why that is, let along not use my own material. >> i haven't seen that -- >> go to twitter. it is being reported i think by mike, on daily beast. it is all over -- anybody's twitter feed. >> well i -- >> amy, respond to that. because it wouldn't be the first

time that donald trump was tweeting things that were sourced when a white supremacist website. i'm assuming the average person does not trax or find them -- traffic or find themselves per using a white supremacist website. >> but i don't think donald trump does either. >> and why is he tweeting from -- >> maybe because he liked the tweet. whatever was said in the tweet. when i re-tweet somebody, i don't see what this person's whole life is about. i don't have time for that. otherwise i would never re-tweet anybody. >> you are not running for president. you are not running for president. >> i have to be honest with you, i do look. when you re-tweet somebody, even though we say they are not endorsements. >> you are in part taking ownership of the tweet that is underlying your own. and i presume, amy -- >> hold on a second. i presume -- >> hold on. i think you are not on white

supremacist websites and -- >> no. >> and so if they are finding smiths that are sources from a white supremacist website and i asked about the white nationalists that are showing up at the convention, doesn't it bother you a little bit -- >> honestly, those people -- i'm not paying attention -- i can't control them. i have nothing to do with them and i condition control them. and donald trump can't either. he disavowed them. i don't know what else you wt him to do or say because that is all he can do is disavow them. >> perry bacon? your comments. >> you know, it is striking that he deleted this. so it tells you this is the one thing he's never said president obama was born in the united states, he has not disavowed his comments so it does tell me this is one thing -- he must think he has some potential for jewish support in that he wanted to delete this immediately and change it. and many things that he said that are offensive, he does not

disavow. this one he doesn't. and for those who he thinks might not or might vote for him. >> and this is a coincidental moment, ee wiesel having passed away but not just those critical of donald trump and on the left but accord the board. whether you went to red state.com or hot air, you were still seeing the same underlying criticism. is this a staff problem. does someone need to take his phone from him. what is the underlying problem here. >> donald trump has what you might call a desensy problem. and his first instinct is to attack and say things that are offensive, whether it is bans on muslim and let's not forget going after an american federal judge and calling him a mexican which is an in sult in her parlance. so we are not seeing isolated events, we are seeing a pattern. and he can't have a conversation

or a political debate without name calling. so hillary clinton is always crooked hillary when he is facing three fraud charges, who has been fined $750,000 by the u.s. government for violating laws in his career, there is nothing crooked about him. it boils down to a lack of decency. >> and amy, when sharpy signs, the radio host from wisconsin went after donald trump it was on the basis of him attacking carly fiorina looks and ted cruz's wife's appearance and accusing ted cruz's father as being part of the assassination of jfk and the recent comment about the judge and i think there is a mexican fighter plane and it feels like there is a tick coming from the candidate that isn't stg staff are always doing and what do you attribute this tick to and why do you think these kind of stories keep being attached to the trump campaign. why do you think it is happening.

>> i think the media wants to drive the narrative. but second of all, it is not politically correct. he never claimed -- >> is this what nonpolitical correctness means. does it mean the freedom to offend. because i hear from people in the conservator camp they like that he is getting rid of the political correctness. but it is not being able to offend people. do you feel that trump should have the right to offend people -- >> what i will tell you is that my safety and security for my family and my country, jobs and the economy, those are things that matter more to me than political correct ps. a -- correctness. and when it comes to who will keep us safe and get our economy back otrack and help with education, donald trump is the one. >> and perry, i think that amy gets to something fundamental that there are two conversation goesi goes on and you have trump shocking the conscious of looking at what he said in terms

of religion and i think people like amy who say i don't care about that, that doesn't matter to me, i don't hear you when you talk about knee ow nazis show -- neo-nazis showing up, but i only care about economics or ending trade or reducing china incursion into the steel market. is that really what is happening in are there two different completely conversations going on that will never intersect. >> i think so. if you are mitt romney, you say i can never vote for this person. they have used -- they have made comments and taken positions i cannot stand for and abide by versus mitch mcconnell saying i'm the republican leader of the senate and donald trump would pick conservative judges and he put out a list of judges and i like those people. hillary clinton would not nominate those people. ike going to vote for donald trump for president. i think there is a logical -- that both decisions are logical and both have a certain amount of consistent -- and i understand both of those views, to be honest. >> and that is what happening.

perry bacon and amy and david, thank you for being here. and more "am joy" after the break. oral-b's rounded brush head cups your teeth to break up plaque and rotates to sweep it away. and oral-b delivers a clinically proven superior clean versus sonicare diamondclean. my mouth feels super clean! oral-b. know you're getting a superior clean. i'm never going back to a manual brush. a body without proper footd needssupport can mean pain. the dr. scholl's kiosk maps your feet and recommends our custom fit orthotic to stabilize your foundation and relieve foot, knee or lower back pain from being on your feet. dr. scholl's.

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now for the results of our first ever am joy twitter survey. and we asked you whether a tax on soda was a good way to fight obesity or a tax on the poor. 32% say it is a way to reduce obesity and 25% say it is a good way to fund education but 35% of you say it is an unfair tax on the poor and 8% are unsure. thanks for weighing in. and we'll be right back with more "am joy." be quick, jack knocked over a candlestick onto the shag carpeting... ...and his pants ignited into flames, causing him to stop, drop and roll. luckily jack recently had geico help him with renters insurance. because all his belongings went up in flames. jack got full replacement and now has new pants he ordered from banana republic. visit geico.com

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well, i already know one story that is a headline for us. tomorrow is the 78th birthday of bill withers who shares a birthday with his older sister who will be 95. they joined us last month to pay tribute to mohammuhammad ali.

withers offered a moving tribute to his long-time friend and made be smile by becoming the first guest to call me sugar. so happy birthday, to you mr. withers and we hope you have a lovely day. for more on this week. what is the headline of the week next week. >> donald trump is going to put out his list on wednesday who is speaking at his convention. >> people say mitt romney will give a boring speech and you are more oftenly to see ammar ossa than mitt romney and i think you could have nontraditional speeches that are interesting.

>> that is tough to top. my headline of the week is that north carolina is in play. >> also that day trump is going to raleigh. it is state that obamacare reed narrowly in 2008. he lost in the 2012, it's back as a battlround state.

that's drawn a politician's at national level into that conversation. it's wrals t ee's also where a . trump's folks are taking it seriously. it's the second visit in less than a month. >> there has been interesting fights around on the affordable care act that have rescramble it had alliances because even white republicans joining with the naacp upset that the governor won't allow the medicaid expansion which has been hurting rural hospitals. >> to help poor people. >> absolutely. >> and it's a place where voting rights are under attack. >> under assault. very interesting state. could be the most interesting state in the season. >> i got something for both parties. i think for the republicans you'll see some movement toward a final vp pick next week for the republicans as we get closer to their convention. >> does the name rhyme with lute

ringrich. >> chris christie has been so dutiful. >> he's suffered so much. >> he's given so much. >> but he's not a darling of the conservatives. he got pilloried for hugging barack obama because the president came to help him after hurricane sandy. but as the campaign has tried to become more quote/unquote legitimate or at least a little more like a campaign, chris christie might be able to help them. that said, on the democratic side, i think you're going to see more press and media attention coming to the platform because the platform committee has, i think, an incredible -- made some incredible topics worthy of conversation, worthy of the democratic party moving forward including eradication of the death penalty. >> it's the most progressive platform. funny you should mention that. bernie sanders campaign actually just came out with a press release today where they outlined next steps in the democratic platform. they praised a lot of things sanders campaign feel they were able to get in the platform

fight. this is an interesting highlight. further, one of the most important amendments we will offer is to make it clear that the democratic party is strongly opposed to the transpific partnership. a potential floor fight for the democrats in orlando next week when they have the full platform meeting over tpp. >> you know, it's -- there's a potential for that. i don't know if it will come to that, truth be told. hillary said she's against it. i don't see it being around tpp. >> what do you think on this, perry? i want to bring you back in on that question of whether or not sanders, having gotten quite a lot out of his campaign would go to the floor and fight over something that's one of the president's signature issues, the transpacific partnership. >> i think he could. he's been very strong on this particular issue feeling like the -- and he's tried to take the democratic barty to the left on trade issues and hillary purports to be against tpp as well. so i think it's an issue he could take it. the president is for tpp but he's probably within a strong minority within the democratic

party and i can see sanders winning that fight. >> beth, is it a fight worth waging if you are from the bernie sanders campaign? he seems to have lost leverage in terms of whether he'll endorse. i'm not sure is an important question anymore but is this something that could harm the democrats if it's a fight in philadelphia where they're not showing unity? >> it won't be a fight in philadelphia. it could be a fight in orlando as you said and bernie sanders has indicated he is going to go as far as he can on this platform discussion and get everything out of it that he can but there's so many other issues he's pushing for, single-payer health care, free client college and public college. he's got a lot there. tpp is at the centerpiece for sure but i don't think it will go to philadelphia. >> i'd like to see them fight more on voting rights, the issue we talked with reverend al sharpton earlier. it's been tepid on the part of democrats. this is shocking. it could hurt them in swing states like north carolina and wisconsin. i'm going throw out a headline that will be important and my headline will be congress fails to act on guns.

we know who they've already been 15 fatal gun-related shooting deaths in the city of chicago. it's likely between now and july 4 holiday there will be more shootings. it's a daily occurrence in this country. the house is supposed to take up a bill that is the nra-approved version of a bill that would prevent people from the terrorism watch list from getting easy access to guns. i predict that will fail. i think gun measures are destined to fail on the house of representatives but we have to act in the states, states like california. our politics on the federal level is failing so i have a said headline going into the july 4 holiday. one happy headline is to say happy july 4 independence day holiday weekend to all of you. this is a tough week end to book guests so i love you guys. you're terrific for being here. thank you so much for your time. i hope you have a wonderful independence and same to you out there. thank you very much, that is our show for today. have a happy fourth of july "a.m. joy" will be back next

saturday. alex witt is up next with more news for you at the top of the hour. man, my feet are killin' me. same time tomorrow, fellas!? new dr. scholl's stimulating step insoles. they massage key pressure points with each step, for all day comfort that keeps you feeling more energized. dude's got skills. new dr. scholl's stimulating step insoles.

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for the strength and energy to do what you love. new ensure enlive. always be you. hello, everyone, i'm alex witt at msnbc world headquarters in new york. the veep stakes are in full swing today with three of hillary clinton's rumored picks cropping up on the sunday talk shows and defending their presumptive nominee against oppone opponents' accusations she is untrustworthy. >> when you've been in the eye of the tornado for as long as i have, i know there's a lot of incoming fire. >> clinton herself said she wasn't bothered by the allegations in an exclusive interview with my colleague chuck todd just after she met with fbi investigators on saturday. meanwhile, donald trump says he is vetting at least three potential running mates, new jersey governor chris christie