(vo) get the ultimate all-included bundle. call 1-800-directv. this sunday hillary clinton e-mails and the fbi. the fbi interview clinton for three and a half hours about her e-mail server. this morning her first interview since that meeting. >> i've been eager to do it and i was pleased to have the opportunity to assist the department in bringing its review to a conclusion. >> the e-mail story plus bill clinton's tarmac meeting with the attorney general. >> both the attorney general and my husband have said they would not do it again. >> are just the latest examples of why voters have trust issues with clinton. also, terror in 016. as attacks around the world become the new normal, isis becomes a bigger part of the presidential campaign.

>> they have dreams at night and their dreams are that hillary clinton becomes president of our country. >> how will terror impact the election? my interview with senator tom cott, one of president obama's sharpest critics. our new nbc news 2016 battleground map. the big states that have shifted and what it means for november. finally, is it time to bring back the smoke-filled room. yes says the author of "the atlantic" magazine cover story. how american politics went insane. joining me infor sight and analysis this sunday morning are some of the campaign reporters from nbc news. andrea mitchell, katie turr, casey hunt. welcome to sunday, it's "meet the press." >> announcer: from nnbc news in washington, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd." we may be nearing the final

chapter of the e-mail saga. yesterday the fbi interviewed hillary clinton for 3 1/2 hours at its headquarters right here in washington, d.c. about the use of her private e-mail server while she was secretary of state. i spoke with the former secretary late yesterday on msnbc. her only interview since meeting with the fbi and asked her whether the description of the interview was business like and accurate? >> well, it was both. it was something i had offered to do since last august. i've been eager to do it and i was pleased to have the opportunity to assist the department in bringing its review to a conclusion. >> how did your private server, where you kept this classified information, some of which was retroactive, i understand, after your term as secretary of state. how is that not a violation of this code? >> i never received nor sent any material that was marked

classified and there is a process for the review of material before it is released to the public and there were decisions made that material should be classified. i do call that retroactively classifying. therefore, it would not be publicly released. but that doesn't change the facts as i've explained many times. >> who advised you that it was perfectly legal for you to have a private server and have this information on there as secretary of state? who gave you that advice? >> i'm not going to go into any more detail than i already have in public many times as you certainly know out of respect for the process that the department is conducting. so, i'm not going to comment any further on the review. but i've been answering questions now for over a year.

i've released more than 55,000 pages of my e-mails for the public to read for themselves. i will continue to, you know, be as forthcoming as i can and my answer that i first gave more than a year ago, i stand by. >> at the same time, there was another story clinton would love to try to leave behind. that tarmac meeting that phoenix airport between bill clinton and attorney general loretta lynch. given the e-mail troubles, the impromptu exchange was seen as evidence of a conspiracy. even by supporters, though, as just badotics. on msnbc yesterday i asked for her reaction to the meeting. >> i learned about it in the news and it was a short, chance meeting at an airport tarmac and both of their planes, as i understand it, were landing on the same tarmac at about the same time. and the attorney general's husband was there. they said hello. they talked about grandkids,

which is very much on our minds these days. golf, their mutual friend and friend janet reno. it was purely social. they did not veer off of speaking of those kinds of, you know, very common exchanges. >> do you understand why many in the public, many, some of them were political opponents of yours. some supporters thought that was a bad decision by your husband and that was a mistake and he should have known better. >> hindsight is 20/20. both the attorney general and my husband have said they wouldn't do it again even though it was from all accounts that i have heard and seen, an exchange of pleasanttries. but, obviously, no one wants to see any untoward, you know, conclusions drawn and they've said. you know, they would not do it again. >> those two stories, the e-mail, the tarmac meeting a

reminder while donald trump has had a horrible few weeks hillary clinton has her own issues and all revolve around trust. the interview that's been anticipated for months happened behind closed doors at fbi headquarters for three and a half hours, according to clinton aides. it's a sign the e-mail investigation that is dogged clinton's campaign may finally be drawing to a close. and that tarmac meeting -- >> bill clinton goes in the other day, into an airplane. just happened to be, oh, just a coincidence. >> reporter: attorney general loretta lynch said the meeting on her private plane in phoenix was a social call. but announced friday she will acceptver whatecommendation federal prosecutors make in the investigation. >> i certainly wouldn't do it again. and, you know, because i think it has cast a shadow. >> i think the key right now is there cannot be any unforced errors. and that meeting on the tarmac was an unforced error.

>> reporter: the trust issue continues to be a drag on clinton's campaign. >> a lot of people tell pollsters they don't trust me. i don't like hearing that. you hear 25 years worth of wild accusations. anyone would start to wonder. >> reporter: in the latest wall street journal poll, clinton leads trump overall by five points, but trails by 16 points when voters are asked which candidate is more honest and straight forward. and 69% of voters say the fact that clinton is dishonest is serious enough to be a concern. >> i think it goes all the way back to her being a first lady. from white water forward all the way to the investigation on the e-mails. always something in the press, while none of them have been prosecuted in any way, voters just see too much smoke. >> reporter: and this week in the drip, drip, drip of the ongoing e-mail scandal, more e-mails. though clinton claims she turned over all work-related e-mails to the department, 160 new ones

came to light thanks to a public record's lawsuit. clinton is trying to deal with all of her problems, explaining her secrecy. >> the reason i sometimes sound careful with my words is not that i'm hiding something, just that i'm careful with my words. >> reporter: borrowing campaign energy from others. >> i'm with her. yes, her. >> reporter: and trying to turn the trust issue back on trump. >> he's in it for himself. and he is temperamentally unfit to be president. >> reporter: but a reputation may be baked . >> she just can't do a speech and then address it and then it's gone. it's always going to be part of the equation. that's what makes it difficult for her. >> let's bring in our panel of nbc news political correspondents. kelly o'donnell, kasie hunt, andrea mitchell and katie turr. welcome to all of you. donald trump laz his own

opinion. even if she's exonerated, donald trump already has his talking point thanks to the tarmac. >> first of all, he has been calling her crooked hillary for a while. but, the tarmac meeting, such an unforced error, inexplicably. bill clinton the scmoozer in chief. something should have told this constitutional law professor from arkansas not to do it and something should have said, to be on that plane for 30 minutes now no matter what happens. if she is exonerated, she will still be, there will still be suspici suspicions, not only among the donald trump people, but among a lot of other people. suspicions that it was politically -- this is

absolutely a disastrous decision on their part. >> and it plays directly into the narrative that donald trump campaign is trying to put forth. that hillary clinton is not to be trusted. one set of rules for her, for the clintons, for politicians in general and another set of rules for everybody else. the lynch meeting did that. this meeting with the fbi could potentially do that if it results in no charges being brought and the trump campaign is seeing this as an opportunity, no matter what happens, to use it against her as saying that she's not just trustworthy. >> it's something of a pattern, right, with the clintons. you heard hillary clinton herself there talking about it. i do something and the right thinks it's a grand conspiracy. the reality is they have done many things in public life that looking back they say they shouldn't have done but they look strange. the e-mail use in and of itself. i did it for convenience. i would have done it differently, if i had another chance. it fits into a pattern that

trump fits in to. >> i asked her about the issue of recusal and what is interesting is now in hindsight it looked like she was perhaps setting up what she ended up announcing. here it is. >> this is not up to you, this decision? >> we don't talk about how we're going to deal with the internal workings of the justice department. but this will be handled like any other matter. >> you don't think it's necessary in your mind that you have to excuse yourself from this. >> i say let the career prosecutors and agents do their job and continue in this matter. >> she was also careful in the aspen interview. she said, no, i am going to be briefed on this. she's not doing a full recusal of republicans are picking up on this. >> they want a special prosecutor. >> that they're not going to get. but a refusrecusal is something might still be out there. >> i think that is still within the possibility. i also think that james has a

lot of possibility in both parties because he has pulled himself out of the game before. if he were to say there is evidence here that should be considered and career prosecutors and i think many people watching this from the outside may not have a sense of the type of long careers, regardless of who is president of people who are involved in this. politically, this is very difficult. >> if you can't fix trust, then what do you fix if you're hillary clinton? here's peter rt, one of our pollsters. he wants to zero in on another issue of hillary clinton's. >> hillary clinton is never going to be able to solve the integrity question. what she has to deal with is likability. and that is voters need to relate to her, they need to find a comfort in terms of her valus and in terms of what she would do. >> this is, he has been riding this. and other democrats believe she is, not doing enough on her

likability. >> campaign ads showing what she has done with children, which is authentic. her entire life, her entire career. playing in north carolina and other big states. but that is showing hillary clinton as not just experienced, they checked that box. but showing her warm, engaging, the grandmother. but one other thing that this whole mess has created. it made it difficult. i was told there was a possible plan for her to fly in on tuesday with this first obama meeting to north carolina on air force one. >> hillary clinton on air force one coming down off the -- >> the door of the plane opens, there are the two of them, arm in arm. >> not now. >> well, they may still do it, but it makes it hard for the president while this is pending. >> all right, guys. i want to pivot here a little bit to the other big issue that is hitting this campaign. the terror attacks around the world. whether this is really becoming the new normal for all of us.

consider what we've seen in the past few months. paris, san bernardino, orlando, the airport in istanbul and just this weekend the restaurant siege in bangladesh. events like these can alter the trajectory of the campaign. while hillary clinton limited her response, donald trump is trying to position himself as the tough on terror candidate. >> hillary is a weak person. she is a weak person. they will not understand hillary. they want her to get in so badly. the last person they want to see become president of the united states, believe me, is donald trump. i can tell you that. >> there are warning signs for clinton on this issue. trump leading clinton by five points. 44-39 on the issue of dealing with terrorism and homeland security. trump has an eight-point edge. 45, 37 who would do a better job

standing up for america. yesterday i spoke with tom cotton of arkansas and sits on the intelligence and armed services committee and been amongst the sharpest critics of president obama's foreign policy. and joining me now is the republican senator from arkansas, tom cotton, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good morning, chuck. happy independence day to you and all of your viewers. >> absolutely. let me start with this war against isis, terrorism, et cetera. you're very critical of this administration, that we know. let me put you in charge now. be the person in charge. starting now, what do you do? let's start with syria. what do you do in syria now? >> well, chuck, i think the first thing we have to do is talk less and act more. the president often presents our problems with the islamic state and pr problem or communications problem. a politician says that, it is almost a reality problem. we need to do more and we need to do it faster. i'll give you some examples from the past. seems like every time the

islamic state commits an atrocity or the senior officials announced a new policy change. we weren't striking at oil trucks and then we were. we didn't have special operation forces in syria and now we do. we now have troops down to the battalion level. we should take stock of all the policies and pursue all of them right now before there is another attack. >> i want to play a clip from a speech you gave in 2013 and ask you about it on the other side. here it is. >> are we fighting too many wars? i would say, no, we're fighting one war. and it's a war against radical islamic jihad. our national interests can be at stake in the smallest valleys in afghanistan. we're radical islamic jihadists are plotting. a few hundred thousand dollars. >> does that mean when isis strikes bangladesh that it is in america's interest to deal with

the isis threat there and in afghanistan and iraq. you see my point here. where does it stop and where does it heend? >> we have to defeat the islamic state, chuck. we cant contain it. not just in places like bangladesh and turkey and western europe and then in the united states, as well. or they will inspire those kind of attacks. if the islamic attacks are losing or in libya which is maybe their most dangerous and welled cell today. they won't inspire so many attacks. we are not responsible for our allies, but, ultimately, the way to stop attacks around the world is to deny terrorists the safe haven they need and eliminate their leadership from the battle, just like we did with al qaeda through much of the last decade. >> in many ways, what you outline as a foreign policy is the exact opposite of donald trump and seems really closer to hillary clinton or hillary clinton seems closer to you.

how do you explain this? >> well, i cusure you i'm not very close to hillary clinton. i think she's disqualified herself from commander in chief. and she has been responsible for many of the worst decisions of the obama administration. she was literally president when we pressed the reset button with russia just a few months after russia has innovated georgia. in 2011 when our commander said we needed more troops in iraq and every iraqi leader wanted an agreement to keep those troops there, she couldn't achieve that even though she was secretary of state. so, i'm far from a supporter of hillary clinton. nor do our world views match up very well. >> okay, but you just gave, fine, you gave the case against clinton. what is the case for trump? you just did a whole speech earlier this week. you didn't even mention his name. you laid out a strong case against her. but you did not make a case for

him. make the case for him. >> well, chuck, the case against hillary clinton's judgment in foreign policy is very strong. to say nothing of her support for obama care and immigration or the fact that she would have -- >> what is the case for donald trump? i understand the case against hillary clinton. what is the case for donald trump? >> well, donald trump can ultimately make the case for himself. but, donald trump, like most americans and most republicans, believe in protecting america's core national interest. he believes, as do i, that we're not jet doing enough to take the fight to the islamic state. living with the consequences of it now. that we have to get tougher when it comes to our intelligence and law enforcement practices to stop islamic terrorism. on those matters, our party is largely united and we have the vast majority of americans with us. >> you don't come across as an enthusiastic trump supporter, is that fair? >> maybe i just don't demonstrate enthusiasm much in

life especially in as dangerous times as these. >> this is somebody who is not, he is not running on a foreign policy that is anywhere close to what you would like to see. how do you square that into your support for him? >> well, chuck, i'm a senator and as a senator i play an important role in crafting foreign policy. it's important to remember whatever the presidential candidates of either party say, they have to interact with the united states congress particular to the senate when it comes to crafting policy. talk in this campaign, for instance, our troop presence. that's not unprecedented. jimmy carter proposed withdrawing all of our troops from south korea. he was stopped by the united states congress. we play an important role and i'll continue to play that role whoever is president. >> hillary clinton testified for about 3 1/2 hours or was subject to an interview by the fbi for 3 1/2 hours given what happened with the tarmac incident with former president clinton, the attorney general and her deciding not to fully recuse

herself but accept whatever recommendation the prosecutors and the fbi make. do you have confidence now in the outcome, whatever it is, regarding this investigation? >> chuck, i have always had confidence in our front line. fbi personnel, as well as the fbi leadership. i think the events of the last week, though, do call into question attorney general lynch's and taking a private meeting with bill clinton who is not only the spouse of the target of an fbi investigation, but himself may pea the target of the fbi investigation into the activity of the clinton foundation. it was very unwise of her to take the meeting. very unwise of him to seek the meeting and since he has not fully recused herself from this decision, i think it raises questions about political interference in this investigation. >> senator tom cotton, i'll leave it there. thanks for coming on. >> thanks, chuck. >> you got it. when we come back, the shifting battleground now for 2016. guess which very big and famous swing state has move under to the democratic column.

as we go to break on this independence weekend. we'll show you some of what we heard when we asked people this simple question. what does independence mean to you? >> i may not have everything that i need, but just knowing that i can think and that i can use my own power to make a difference in my family and my community and my daughter's lives. then, yes, i am independent and i am free. ♪ turquoise dresses... so excited. did all her exes get invited? no ones got moves like uncle joe. ♪ when it's go book on choicehotels.com for instant rewards like gift cards, plus savings of up to 20%. book direct at choicehotels.com try duo fusion!ing antacids? new, two in one heartburn relief. the antacid goes to work in seconds... and the acid reducer lasts up to 12 hours

in one chewable tablet. try new duo fusion. from the makers of zantac. wiback like it could used to? neutrogena hydro boost water gel. with hyaluronic acid it plumps skin cells with intense hydration and locks it in. for supple, hydrated skin. hydro boost. from neutrogena

welcome welcome back. a brand-new map this week and there are some important changes. let's dive right in. we'll start with our democratic leaning state. so, what changed? first, the good news for hillary clinton. florida and its 29 electoral votes have gone from toss-up to lean democrat. two of the last three polls out have shown clinton with a double-digit lead in florida,

flori florida. the bad news, pennsylvania and nevada, when we had them lean democrat, a toss-up. this map would put hillary clinton at 255 electoral votes. let's move to the republican side. what does trump's map look like right now? we move mississippi and montana. they are more solidly republican in our column. but maybe the most important thing is utah. we have moved it from likely to lean. it's perhaps the most important republican state and reliable republican state in the country. but mormons have a big problem with trump and no guarantee he will win there. with this map, 190 electoral votes and he would need 80 to go find where he needs to go. what does that mean for the toss-ups? eight toss-up states in here and one electoral vote in both maine and nebraska. those two states both award them by congressional district. new additions to this toss-up map besides maine's one vote is

pennsylvania and nevada. right now trump is showing strength in reno. that's why we have moved nevada from lean to toss-up and polls are much closer there than many thought they would be. 93 electoral votes up for grabs. but as we told you, all hillary clinton needs is 15 electoral votes. what does that mean? one north carolina would do it. one pennsylvania would do it. one ohio would do it. that's a little bit scary if you're donald trump right now because if she's only one state away and you're essentially need to run the table on everything on this map. we'll see. when we come back, as the potential vp fields come into focus, my interview with one possible clinton pick labor secretary thomas perez. from over 30 billion connected devices. just 30 billion? a bold group of researchers and computer scientists in silicon valley, had a breakthrough they called... the machine. it changed computing forever. and it's been part of every new technology for the last 250 years.

everything? everything! this year, hewlett packard enterprise will preview the machine and accelerate the future. see star trek beyond. but we mean so much more. we mean how can we help? we mean what can we do? we mean it's our turn. to do our part. to serve you, for all you've done to serve us. ♪

welcome back. the chatter around my next guest's chances of being hillary clinton's running mate has steadily grown over the last month or so. we wouldn't hold it against you if you haven't heard much about thomas perez yet. he helped run the civil rights department at the department of justice before being tapped to serve in president obama's cabinet in 2013. out on the campaign trail for secretary clinton he has aggressively pushed back against donald trump whether he's being vetted or not. but we're told that secretary clinton has really taken a liking to him on the campaign trail. he joined me on friday in his personal capacity where he is working to convince skeptical progressives on issues like

trade. let me start with trade and specifically, donald trump earlier this week against it and then this. we have to withdraw, okay, we have to. we should seek a guarantee from hillary clinton that she won't sign it. by the way, he has the same position as bernie sanders who wants it in the platform. opposition to ttp. should secretary clinton oppose this and guarantee she will oppose it throughout her four years? >> secretary clinton has been very clear that she opposes it and secretary clinton has been very clear that she has a real plan to bring jobs back to america. she has a real plan on trade, which starts with making sure that we're tough on trade. so, if china is dumping steel or dumping aluminum, she is called for a trade prosecutor reporting directly to her. she has a plan to bring manufacturing jobs and investing in workers.

donald trump is a fraud. he is the outsorcer in chief, chuck. listening to him talk about how he's going to put america first, again. he spent his entire career putting his own profits first. you look at all -- >> mr. secretary, i understand -- >> bernie sanders is just against this and, in fact, his people are fighting to get opposition in the democratic platform. what do you say to bernie sanders? >> again, this election is between hillary clinton and donald donald trump is telling the american people he will put people first on trade. wages are too high in america. donald trump has said that a low minimum wage is a good thing for america. donald trump makes his suits in mexico when i've been to a plant in ohio that uses union labor to make their suits. donald trump has said repeatedly that, oh, i'm going to make america first. when you look at the reality of what he has done, he has fought collective bargaining in las

vegas. the people on the strip who organize the trump hotel. they did it over his dead body. he doesn't believe in the prevailing wage. this notion that he's somehow going to be a champion for workers flies in the face of his record because he hasn't put america first. he's put his own profits first. it's all about him. >> let me ask you, though, specifically about ttp. labor secretary perez said this about ttp. your capacity as labor secretary. you championed it and one op-ed, you called it critical to our 21st century competitiveness. do you still believe in that version of the ttp? >> this is what the president tasked me with doing, chuck. i was proud to do it. which is we want to go to school on the mistakes and the lessons of past trade agreements. we want to build a trade regime that, again, the north star the american worker. protecting the american worker. so, we want to make sure that

when we negotiate with mexico and vietnam and others that we have the strongest protections for workers that we ever had. that's what we set out to do and that's what i believe we have done. the president and secretary clinton have a disagreement on whether ttp has gone that far. you know, this is not the first time in the history of the democratic party that there have been differences of opinion where they are totally in lock step is their belief that we have to put the american worker first and we have to go to school on the lessons of history. and that's exactly what we're doing in the work that we've been doing on trade. >> look, i know you've been very hesitant about answering any vp questions and the betting questions. but let me ask this since it's clear. your name is somewhere in the mix. tell me how you would describe your foreign policy philosophy. >> well, i haven't, i haven't run any miss universe pageants

and i don't have what donald trump has and i'm very sorry about that. but, you know, it's all about judgment. and donald trump is such a volatile individual. what i have seen working with secretary clinton is that she is a steady hand. we are in the midst of a very challenging set of circumstances around the world. you need someone with a steady hand. and secretary clinton with her experience, with her steady hand and with her sound judgment. judgment is what it's all about and i think she has exercised sound judgment throughout. >> let me ask you this, what do you believe is the biggest threat that faces the next administration international? >> well, again, we're continuing to confront the threat of foreign terrorism and others. we continue to see nations that are having, you know, dramatic challenges and a lot of the same

questions are being asked around the world. whether it's in europe where you have so many people in the far right who are gaining traction. whether it's, you know, in the pen and france or others else where. austria most recently, as well. so, i think it's critically important moment for american leadership. when i think about donald trump, the trump train wreck is not simply a train wreck on trade or on the minimum wage or on immigration, it's a train wreck for american values. and one of the many reasons, chuck, that i am so excited to support secretary clinton is because she understands that when you attack muslims. when you attack immigrants, you're attacking the core of american values. and i think around the world, the rest of the world is looking to america for leadership. looking for us to summon those

values of inclusion and opportunity and optimism. i don't understand for the life of me why donald trump is always saying america's in decline. when ronald reagan was president, he was taking out full-page ads saying america is a laughing stock. i look around the world and when i travel internationally in my job, everyone is looking to america for guidance. everybody says to me, we admire you as the face of the earth in terms of the values that we should be upholding. i think america is a remarkable leader and with secretary clinton moving forward, the challenges of terrorism. the challenges of global inequality. we have to make sure that our economy at home and our economy around the world works for everybody and not just for a few. >> a fuller interview that i did with tom perez. you can find that at

meetthepress@nbc.com. many of you believe our politics are broken. so is it time to actually bring back the smoke-filled room? we'll get into that. but, first, here's more of what independence means to some of you. >> to be able to exercise your rights to vote and speak and exercise if you have a religion, but without imposing that religious view on anyone else. you do all this research on a perfect car, then smash it into a tree. your insurance company raises your rates... maybe you should've done more research on them. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates

due to your first accident. liberty mutual insurance.

♪ americans are buying more and more of everything online. and so many businesses rely on the united states postal service to get it there. because when you ship with us, your business becomes our business. that's why we make more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. the united states postal service. priority: you does your makeup remover every kiss-proof,ff? cry-proof, stay-proof look? neutrogena® makeup remover does. it erases 99% of your most stubborn makeup with one towelette. need any more proof than that? neutrogena. welcome back. want to take a moment to remember the life of a man

president obama called. elie wiesel died yesterday at the age of 87. he survived the horror of hitler's concentration camps and chronicled in his most famous book "night." wiesel would spend the next seven decades insuring never again would be more than a slogan. spoke out against hate and injustice wherever he saw it, y yugoslavia and a call to action to never stay silent in the face of oppression. >> we must take sides. for neutrality helps never the victim. silence and tormentor. sometimes we must interfere.

and he would have wanted you to have it. it meant a lot to him... yes, ge makes powerful machines. but i'll be writing the code that will allow those machines to share information with each other. i'll be changing the way the world works. (interrupting) you can't pick it up, can you? go ahead. he can't lift the hammer. it's okay though! you're going to change the world.

welcome back. the past four decades have seen some remarkable changes in our politics. strong political parties and party insiders and smoke-filled rooms have largely been replaced by direct primaries and restrictions on party fund-raising. maverick candidates accountable to no one. the changes all sound good, but my next guest says the effort to create a more transparent democracy has, in fact, created chaos and given us the politics we see today. jonathan is the author of the cover story in this month's "the atlantic." how american politics went insane and he joins us now. good to see you, sir. >> great to be here, chuck, thank you. >> probably the best summation of trying to explain how did we get here? the number one question all of us get. which is how did we end up with trump and clinton and how did we end up with this politics? i want to start with one excerpt here. trump, sanders and ted cruz have

in common that they are political sociopaths, meaning not that they are crazy, but they don't care what other politicians think about their behavior and they don't need to care. explain what you meant by this. >> chuck, politics is inherently a team sport. you have to get leaders who have those to follow and create thousands of interest groups and activists and other politicians and that takes people who can build personal networks. who can have private conversations. who can have strong party structures. that requires seniority systems on capitol hill. it requires money. you've got to be able to say, you know, chuck, you've been a loyal supporter. i'll route money to your campaign. by stripping away those tools to leaders, we created followership. >> what's interesting in your piece, our most pressing political problem today, our country abandoned the establishment, not the other way around. you know, obviously, we've been hearing that word, whatever it

meant. the establishment. i'm running against the establishment. you're contending, no, the establishment's not working. >> it's been effectively shattered. people who look more main stream than other peal. but the tools that an establishment needs to use in order to organize politics including to be able, suppose i need to vote with me on a bill that's a tough vote for you. i need to give you some prottion in your primary race. if i can't do that, you won't help me. that's a leader without followers. that's john boehner and that's the mess we're in. >> hadn't it also meant that you have the potential of vice presidential candidates who aren't vetted in the same traditional way. in a smoke-filled room people would have known what was going on in john edwards' life and would have communicated that.

put on the ticket who had an important point now where candidates are going to be chosen by vice president there these frontrunners and you have to know a lot more about them. >> andrea, we have without meaning to with best of intentions we moved down a road where we now reward renegade political behavior and punish loyalists who play by the rules. that is a dangerous place to be. >> you talk some in this story about the kind of machines of old, tammany hall and how they actually ended up representing the little guy. they were not necessarily elitist. do you think the republican party, did they forget about those masses of people who they actually need to offend them here. >> everyone's made huge mistakes. but a lot of what happened is that the establishment lost the party, specifically. lost a lot of the power that they used to have to be able to

aggregate those people. bring them together and say, okay, now, who is going to talk to the working class? who is on that beat? who is dealing with that? find candidates who will mobilize the votes. when you turn it over to a primary process, you're turning it over to special interests and the activists who have time to organize and taking it away from these people who are kind of the unsmo unspoken for. >> how did they lose the perception game? how did they lose with voters who say they don't feel like they were represented by them, how did they get that message, taken away from them. was it part of the whole system, part of the system that those in power are trying to benefit themselves? was it something that they created and then lost control of? >> it's a bunch of things. part of it, of course, is the so-called establishment made mistakes. i prefer to think about insiders and parties over establishment. because a lot of what happened there is we spent the last 40 or 50 years passing laws and

policies that have systematically stripped away all of the tools and devices that those people used in order to do their jobs. and then we look up and discover they can't do their jobs. all they are talking job. everyone says why didn't they intervene to stop trump? they have no tools. they use to be able to work quiet let behind closed doors in congress. we have taken away a lot of what they needed. >> the elected pun dants. >> yes. they have been demonized in many ways. >> yes. >> and they talked about how you build coalition, they don't trust that. they don't accept that those sort of interworkings apply to government. how do you change their minds? >> you can try to start by writing an article. it is such an uphill battle.

the article talks about the mechanical things you can do. a lot of them are simple changes in law or congressional rules like earmarks. the hard part is persuading the public we have gone too far down the road of demonizing. until we start rebuilding them we are going have more and more compromise. >> and rewarding compromise. >> yes. rewarding team play. >> i hope every elected official reads this. i think many americans need to read it. it is an important piece. thank you jonathan. thank you for coming on. >> you got it. >> when we come back we'll have end game time and could we learn this week the name of donald trump's running mate? > onald trump's constipated?

trust number one doctor recommended dulcolax use dulcolax tablets for gentle overnight relief suppositories for relief in minutes and stool softeners for comfortable relief of hard stools. dulcolax, designed for dependable relief it takes a lot of work... but i really love it.s. i'm on the move all day long... and sometimes, i just don't eat the way i should. so i drink boost® to get the nutrition that i'm missing. boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a great taste.

i don't plan on slowing down any time soon. stay strong. stay active with boost®. ...another anti-wrinkle cream in no hurry to make anything happen. neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair works... ...in one week. with the... fastest retinol formula. ...to visibly reduce wrinkles. neutrogena®.

brought to you by all right. we are two weeks from the convention. at some point we'll learn the vice presidential running mates. kelly, where do we stand here? >> one of the most important things to snknow is they have t complete the process. the questionnaires that have been going out, there are those on the list that have not completed that work yet. why is it so important for donald trump? because the person he told is a well known d.c. lawyer who also vetted sarah palin. the questionnaires, all kinds of things about finances, medical,

social media habits, all of these asking potential picks to go through that. the pick will need a little more time. >> what are you hearing here? >> we are all hering pence, chr christie could be for trump. they think on their owns. they would be a real partner as a number two. donald trump wants his own ed mcman. he wants someone who will yes, donald trump, him. >> so what you're saying is chr christie? >> they believe he is playing a roel right n role right now. >> i don't know. >> and looking at personality wise -- >> and i want to go to the democrats here a little billion it.

does he have enough experience? >> clinton doesn't need to follow through on her commitment, someone ready to step in. so that would be a big test. i think cain will have to explain all of the gift practices he followed that were perfectly legal. given the bob mcdonald thing it was an 8-0 invalidation thing. i still think somebody would come out. >> and we have added him to our list here. john kerry vetted him. >> you can speak to rural america. >> and he and his wife were major players in iowa. >> yeah. by the way, their connection is with her, not bill. >> that's correct. >> what are you hearing? >> i think it matters a lot. i think the one thing the

campaign is grappling is elizabeth warren. i don't get the sense that she needs to be the vice presidential pick. they are working more of a personal relationship. my sense is the idea hillary clinton would have somebody who was interested in taking the oval office job. >> and with clinton she is looking past the election to governing. one thing you have to calculate is she is married to a president. she understands the relationship of congress to a president. i am told that she has options other than those that would remove a democratic senator. >> and i think it takes brown out of it because she is getting a lot of press. >> if there were a democratic governor -- >> she has seen the sibling

rivalry and she does not -- >> all right. i'll pause it there. we have something a little bit interesting that we are allowing father or moth folks to do. we are allowing you to do it. it is called elections confessions.com. people have been admitting things like after months of being loyal to bernie i forgot to vote in my primary. take a look. >> my election confession is i lie to my family about who i vote for. i lie to my husband. i lie to my kids. >> i only ever voted for himself. i write my name on ever line of a ballot. >> i am ashamed of myself for

living here in 24 years and never voted because i'm too lazy to get my citizenship. >> find out how to confess. >> exactly. >> electionsconfessions.com. >> we should do it after november! you can see the full video on the meet the press facebook page. it will be up and running. i never told my daughter anything about what i think about politics because she will tell everybody at school. that's all for today. we want to wish you a happy 4th of july. as we go, here is the united states marine band performing stars and stripes forever on the steps of the capital. it's meet the press.

♪ and app good monday morning. i'm craig in new york. this morning we are following several developing stories. a central park tourist injured after stepg on a homemade explosive device. a bomb set off in saudi arabia and up to 200 killed in an attack in a baghdad shopping center. we are learning more about the deadly gator attack at disney world and a second gator involved. we start this morning with a race for the white house. clinto