if it's tuesday, hillary clinton gets a clean bill of health on the legal front, but her political health is still in question. the e-mail saga has done real damage. can president obama be the one to fix it? this is "mtp daily," and it starts right now. well, this is a day for the presidential campaign time capsule, that's for sure. i'm chuck todd here in new york, and welcome to "mtp daily."

just moments ago, president obama made his return to the campaign trail in his first appearance on the stump with hillary clinton. the rally was in battleground north carolina. it came just hours after fbi director james comey delivered a scathing rebuke of clinton's use of private e-ml as secretary of state secrery of state. and although comey recommended no legal action, the political toll is still significant, as trust and honesty continue to dog the clinton campaign and clinton herself. president obama, though, he's going to be the character witness as far as the clinton campaign is hoping, and he offered a forceful defense of clinton's character just moments ago, including her time as his secretary of state. >> i'm here today because i believe in hillary clinton, and i want you to help elect her to be the next president of the united states of america! that's why i'm here. the bottom line is, she was a

great secretary of state. everybody thought she was doing a great job! that's because she did do a good job. but it's funny how the filter changes a little bit. same person, done the same work. but you know, that filter is a powerful thing. >> the president appeared eager to hit the trail. he also took a few shots at trump and trump's supporters, who are frustrated with this economy. if your concern is working people, then this is not a choice. i don't care whether you're white, black, hispanic, native american, polka dot. if you're voting for the other team, it's not because of the economy. it's not because of the economy. you've got to be clear about that. even the republicans on the other side don't really know what the guy's talking about.

they really don't. they really don't. you ask them, they're all like, i don't know. then they kind of duck the other way. >> and also moments ago, clinton portrayed her candidacy as an extension of what she said was an unfinished obama legacy. >> it means so much to me personally to have the president's support in this campaign. after all, he knows a thing or two about winning elections. take it from me! he also knows that despite all the progress we've made under his leadership -- and yes, we have -- we still have a lot of work to do. >> but as the president has said, let's be blunt hear here, the clinton campaign is struggling to define her campaign. the e-mail scandal has taken on a life of its own, and in some

ways, reanimated all of the clinton baggage of the '90s up to 2008 that in many ways she thought her stint as secretary of state was going to leave behind. and even though comey ordered no charges filed, he delivered a blistering assessment of clinton's use of e-mail and his findings countered past statements that her use of private e-mail was above board, that its security was never compromised, and she she turned over everything she needed to turn over. >> there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of so sensitive, highly classified information. it is possible that hostile actors ganined access to secretary clinton's personal e-mail account. the fbi also discovered several thousand e-mails not among the group of 30,000 returned by secretary clinton to state in 2013. 30 of those were classified at

the time they were sent or received. >> this weekend i spoke to secretary clinton after she was interviewed by the fbi. >> let me just repeat what i have repeated for many months now. i never received nor sent any material that was marked classified. >> well, it was a familiar defense, familiar enough that director comey decided to take that argument on head on. here's what he said. >> only a very small number of the e-mails here containing classified information bore markings that indicated the presence of classified information. but even if information is not marked classified in an e-mail, participants who know or should know that the subject matter is classified are still obligated to protect it. >> folks, some on the right and in the conservative news media ratcheted up expectations so much that there was an assumption among many republicans that only followed that news silo that criminal charges weren't just inevitable, but a prison sentence was

coming. and trump clearly was ready to fan those flames. he has said he thinks clinton should be in jail and today tweeted "fbi director said crooked hillary compromised our national security. no charges. wow! #riggedsystem." house speaker paul ryan said in part that the fbi announcement "defies explanation. nobody should be above the law, but based upon the director's own statement, it appears damage has been done to the rule of law. declining to prosecute secretary clinton for recklessly mishandling classified information will set a terrible precedent." the foul here may be careless or wrong, but it doesn't seem to be enough to get them thrown out of the game, at least according to officials. that's going to be up to voters. that said, there is lots of political damage that must be addre addressed. for trump and his allies, the conservative echo chamber has seemed to overplay its hand of assuming guilt, that it's not as if anything comey said today

will change any minds on the right. going to get more reaction from kristen welker, traveling with clinton campaign and happens to be with the president as well in north carolina. so, let's focus there. how much chatter on the ground there did you hear about the fbi statement? >> reporter: well, look, these are some of secretary clinton's staunchest supporters, chuck, so they reacted in the way that you would anticipate. they said, look, the headline here is that she's not facing any charges, or at least that is what director comey recommended. in terms of her campaign, they now need to figure out how she's going to respond to this. of course, president obama, secretary clinton didn't mention the e-mail controversy today during their remarks. so, that's going to be the big challenge moving forward. as you point out, this speaks to secretary clinton's biggest challenge, which is trustworthiness among voters. this continues to dog her and will continue to do so through and after the convention. but look, what happened today is that president obama i think

accomplished what he was hoping to. he served as her character witness, spoke in very personal terms about how he respected her even more after that bruising primary battle, ticked off some of her top accomplishment as secretary of state, including being in the situation room with him, advocating for taking out osama bin laden, helping lay the groundwork for the iran nuclear deal. then, of course, he delivered a robust defense of his own legacy in office, saying he's ready to pass the baton. for democrats, for staunch democrats, they are going to hear this as a rallying cry. republicans will say this is going to be a third term of president obama. the question is, though, can he get the obama coalition out to vote and can he win over those critical undecided voters, chuck? >> that's right. and that's why i think north carolina was a much smarter place to start for the clinton campaign in using obama than their original decision, green bay, wisconsin. kristen welker, thank you very much. even though fbi director james comey recommended no criminal charges against clinton, he did

seem to suggest that she face some form of punishment. >> this is not to suggest that in similar circumstances, a person who engaged in this activity would face no consequences. to the contrary, those individuals are often subject to security or administrative sanctions, but that's not what we're deciding now. >> joining me is a former prosecutor prosecutor who specialized in cyber security cases. but he led some of the doj's highest profile cases, including the prosecution of david petraeus. thank you for coming on today. >> thank you, chuck. >> all right, interpret for me that last comment by director comey, that he's basically saying there are some charges that could be brought against her. he called them security charges. what does that mean, not getting a certain security clearance? what exactly was he referring to there? >> sure. so, there are a variety of

noncriminal consequences that may attach to investigations that involve the mishandling of classified information. those administrative actions are not within the purview of the department of justice or the fbi, but are rather handled by, for example, the agency that may have sponsored and granted the security clearance of an individual who is deemed to have mishandled classified information in some way. so, to be clear, director comey was not speaking about any type of criminal charges that might be of consequence, but of, you know, of administrative actions that might be taken. >> so, what you're saying, essentially, this would be up to, in this case, the state department. >> yes. >> if they wanted to take action, he has given them the material to take action. >> that's correct. >> okay. >> often, in mishandling cases,

the sponsoring agency can do a variety of things, including, you know, revoking the security clearance or not sponsoring one going forward. >> all right, let me ask you, because it's the comparison that every layperson in politics makes, which is what david petraeus got prosecuted for and what hillary clinton did not get prosecuted for. what are the similarities, what are the differences? >> sure. so, i'll use what director comey said today in his statement as a frame. just to be clear, everything that i refer to is in the public record in both cases. the core of director comey's statement concerned the lack of evidence regarding willfulness. and i believe the term he used was that in the investigation of secretary clinton and her home server that the fbi had not uncovered any evidence of clear willf willfulness. now, in criminal prosecutions, as a general matter -- and this is criminal prosecution 101 -- the government is required to prove at least two things.

one is the required mental state, and the second is the physical act that constitutes the actual crime. and according to director comey today, the fbi in this investigation did not identify information that it believed would meet the standard of willfulness. now, by contrast, in the prosecution of former central intelligence agency director david petraeus, the department and i and the fbi were comfortable that there was evidence that satisfied that willfulness standard, and in particular -- and this is included in the plea agreement in the factual basis, that former general petraeus executed with the government -- there was information that was developed based on recordings that his biographer had made of conversations, demand particu-- particular, in those recordings, petraeus said xexplicitly that

the information he shared was highly classified. then just about two weeks after making that statement, he went ahead and by e-mail confirmed to his biographer that he was going to share the black books with her. >> so, there was obvious evidence here that he was willfully doing this. what you're saying today is that director comey did not have that level of evidence with secretary clinton. >> that's correct. and the other point that director comey made which i think bears repeating, in particular in contrast to the petraeus prosecution, was that in addition to a lack of clear willfulness in secretary clinton's matter, there also were not aggravating circumstances. director comey suggested that some of those aggravating circumstances could have been evidence of large-scale transmission of classified information, evidence of disloyalty to the united states or obstruction of justice. turning to the petraeus matter -- and this, again, is included in the plea agreement, which is public -- former director petraeus acknowledged

and admitted that when he was interviewed by the fbi at the cia, he told them that he had not shared classified information with his biographer, when in fact, he knew then and there ha he had. >> he got caught lying. >> so, another distinguishing feature. >> he got caught lying. speaker of the house said declining to prosecute secretary clintor for recklessly mishandling and transmitting national security information will set a terrible precedent. as a former prosecutor, are you worried that we've lowered -- he's basically worried that we've lowered the standard of following the law. >> yeah, that's not something that i'm worried about based on the director's statement today. you know, what the speaker is referring to, i believe, is the statement that director comey made about the recklessness, in his opinion, with which some of these e-mail arrangements were conduct conducted. within the statute that governs the mishandling of classified

information, that is title 18 of the united states code section 793, there are two provisions that guide the mental state required. the first is one of willfulness. and that is 793e. in 793f, a subprovision that follows immediately after the willfulness discussion, there is a gross negligence standard that can be applied in these types of prosecutions. now, it is true that that standard exists within the statute. however, to my knowledge, and in my memory, the department has never used the gross negligence standard to prosecute a 793 felony case. >> would this have been a difficult -- you believe this would have been a difficult prosecution to make stick? >> yeah, basel based on what th director said today, the information in the public record it appears there was not evidence of willfulness. >> would you have recommended --

>> gross negligence -- >> would you have recommended against prosecution as prosecutor? if something like this hit your table, this evidence or lacking of some parts of evidence? >> based on the director's statement today, i think it was the right conclusion. >> okay. >> and i think his statement that it would be unreasonable for a prosecutor to proceed is correct. >> all right. james melendres, former prosecutor at the department of justice, now in private practice. thanks for something on and explaining this a little bit for us. >> thank you very much. >> all right, i'm joined by hillary clinton supporter ellen taucher, former undersecretary of state for arms and affairs under secretary clinton and also a former member of congress. congresswoman taucher, nice to see you. >> hi, chuck, how are you? >> there was a scathing indictment of the state department in how it handles all this stuff, that the fbi director seemed to be shocked at how sloppy the entire department was. can you defend how the department handles this?

>> well, i can tell you that when i was undersecretary, virtually everything i did was classified. and there was a lot of people that spend a lot of time during the day making sure that the two buckets are separated between classified and unclassified e-mails. the systems are virtually separate so that they really cannot co-join. but you know, i think that the lecture that fbi director comey gave today was one to make sure that people understood how seriously he was taking things. but i do think the state department pushed back pretty significantly this afternoon. i do believe that secretary clinton was a very good steward of national security and secrets while she was secretary. but you know, mistakes happen. and she clearly has stated that she regrets having a private e-mail and a server and that she wouldn't do it again. >> well, you say mistakes happen. he was basically saying decisions -- there wasn't a mistake that was made.

the decision to have a private server put this in jeopardy. >> well, i mean, keep in mind, we're talking about tens of thousands of e-mails, tens of thousands of unclassified e-mails and tens of thousands of classified e-mails who i think are pretty safe over on the secure server. the issue that we're talking about really is, you know, when he talks specifically about these different e-mail chains and, you know, tens of things that are potentially classified, what i didn't hear from him was that they were actually marked classified and that they actually were -- >> boy, that is sort of like saying, look, there's technically -- >> no, it's not technical -- >> it's a technicality is what he's saying. his argument seemed to be technicali technicality. >> no, if you get something on your unclassified e-mail and it says classified, i think you're not going to open it and refer it to somebody. that's the difference here. if you get something that's not marked classified ayour

unclassified server, you are going to open it. believe me, i'm not suggesting that this is in any way a whitewash, but i think what we have to understand is that mistakes do happen. every office has a situation where sometimes things get put in the wrong box. what the real issue here is, is that i think that this has been baked into things, it's been highly politicized. i think that certainly secretary clinton wants to go on, move on to the campaign and begin talking about what she's going to do for working families to get them jobs and keep them secure. >> what do you say to the average voter who thinks, you know what, if this were you, former undersecretary of state tauscher, you would have been prosecuted. but you're not running for president. secretary clinton is, and she didn't get prosecuted. >> i've read the law. if i willfully ignored the signals that these things were classified and that i had actually jeopardized the security of the country. and in this case, you know, this

has been very politicized. lots of terminology's been used to basically have secretary clinton appear guilty when -- >> but you cannot do something on purpose and still be held accountable on this. gross negligence -- >> nobody is saying that she's not being held accountable. i mean, look, the secretary has made very clear for over a year that this was a mistake, that she regrets it, she would never do it again. but i think we have to put this into context. >> do you think, you know, one of the things that director comey said, he said, hey, it's not up to him, but essentially saying if the state department wanted to sanction her, they'd be well within their right. either her or some of her staff members. do you think somebody ought to be sanctioned for gross negligence on this front? >> you know, i don't know what the level of scrutiny for gross negligence is, but i will say what i have said from the very beginning, that i believe she was a steward of national security as secretary. i believe there was never any willful intention to do anything

wrong. i don't believe there was any jeopardy of our national security secrets. and i think that, you know, really, this is a chapter that has been overpoliticized by people that can never agree with the facts. >> well, i do agree that there are going to be plenty of people that will never agree on the finality of this story, that's for sure. ellen tauscher, thanks for coming on. >> thank you, chuck. >> coming up, the running mate reality show. two weeks to cleveland. we're trying to nail down new details on who might be hired to join the trump ticket. somebody's having a lot of fun with this right now, though, that's for sure. we'll be right back. i called for help as soon as i saw her. i found her wandering miles from home. when the phone rang at 5am, i knew it was about mom. i see how hard it's been on her at work and i want to help. for the 5 million americans living with alzheimer's, and millions more who feel its effects. let's walk together to make an even bigger impact and end alzheimer's for good.

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donald trump's campaign has been chock-full of treat ricks from the early start and the veepestablishes process seems to be no different from him. it's typically behind the scenes, a cloak and dagger operation. they like to hide it from us. but in true trump fashion, he's going big and splashy.

trump is transforming his reality show roots to the velting process. over the weekend, he met with indiana governor mike pence and joan ernst and then openly praised them on twitter, elevating the speculation around their prospects. don't think that was an accident. despite showing luke-warm enthusiasm for trump, when i spoke to him this sunday on "meet the press," senator tom cotton also got twitter love from the nominee. we know pence is being openly vetted by the trump campaign, as well as chris christie and newt gingrich. gingrich was campaign with trump tomorrow in cincinnati, ohio. gingrich said this week he has not spoken with trump specifically about joining the ticket and he hasn't withheld his criticism. >> everything the clinton campaign is doing to suppress trump will in the short run suppress trump, because he's not trying. trump's job is, frankly, to quit screwing up, get the election down to three or four big issues, all of which come down to a single concept -- enough.

>> also high on trump's veepstakes list, senator corker, part of the foreign relations committee. could boost his credentials in washington. well, corker joins trump tonight at his north carolina rally. and we'll be heading live to that site in just one minute. we'll be right back. kellogg's® frosted 8 layers of wheat... and one that's sweet. for the adult and kid in all of us. ♪ kellogg's frosted mini-wheats® feed your inner kidult

think yotry nexium 24hr.'s best for your heartburn? now the #1 choice of doctors & pharmacists... for their own frequent heartburn. get complete protection with nexium 24 hour. donald trump will kick off an event in just over an hour in raleigh. that's where we'll also see senator bob corker. he'll be with him as well. katy tur is outside the rally with the latest from the campaign trail. so, these appear to be open auditions. now, how much of this is for the theater of it all, and how much of this is for the campaign itself to assess? >> reporter: well, that is a good question. we do know that donald trump likes the theater of this sort of thing, and he has said that he'd like to bring a little more hollywood to the convention. this certainly does it. but donald trump, as you've been talking about, over the weekend has been tweeting, which is kind of unprecedented, about the

meetings he's had with these potential vp picks. part of that, chuck, is because he's been trying to change the subject from a bad weekend with a bad headline, talking about this accused anti-semitic tweet with the accused star of david over hillary clinton and a pile of money. so, this is donald trump trying to change the narrative, as he often does, trying to spin it in a positive direction. but whether these are the names that are ultimately going to be the names that he picks from, i would not hold my breath on t t that. sources close to the campaign and the candidate say that donald trump will go with his gut. it's going to depend on who he actually likes, and there's not a lot of opinions out there that governor pence, although he makes so much sense, is the person that donald trump will ultimately want to share a ticket with and want to share four years in office with. so, don't be surprised if there is a head fake, i'm told by my sources. also, the speculation for the

announcement is that it could come next week, late next week before the convention starts. but then again, it could come this week. they keep saying that donald trump is unpredictable, and we've seen that this campaign season. >> and i think it's safe to say that if trump knows his decision, he might let his campaign staff know at the same time he's letting us know. >> reporter: absolutely. >> katy tur, thank you. dan walsh, with the "washington post." what's interesting here with trump is that i think what's normal about the process is we're seeing various names get vetted. he is doing a normal vetting process. what's different is the clinton campaign wants to do it in secret. trump seems to want to do it in public. >> yeah, he does. and you know, there's some precedent for that, chuck. i mean, if you think back to four years ago, mitt romney campaigned with a number of the people who were on his short list. >> sure. >> and it was a deliberate attempt and an effort to gauge what the chemistry is like, how effective they are at making the case that needs to be made.

so, this isn't entirely unusual, but donald trump, obviously, does it in his own showman style, and i think that's what kind of makes it different. and nobody four years ago was tweeting about potential vice presidential candidates that they were looking at in the way that he's doing. >> i guess the question is what does he want? we know what he's said. he wants somebody with a little more washington savviness to him. he acknowledges he doesn't have that. but beyond that, i guess the question is, you know, you talk to some people close to him, and they say he's been told, getting somebody that conservatives can get excited about would certainly make sure that the convention goes a lot smoother than what it appears it's going to go to now. how much do we think he'll factor that? >> i would think a bit, but everything we've seen so far in his candidacy is that he is the ultimate judge of what is really important, not what a lot of other people may say to him. he'll have to factor that in, certainly. but with a mike pence, he would

get conservative support. with a bob corker, he would get establishment support. with newt gingrich, he would get sort of rebellion support, back-bencher kind of support or outsider support. with joni ernst, it's a clear appeal to women. with chris christie, it's a relationship that goes back a number of years, and there's probably some comfort level there. so, ultimately, you know, so much of this has to do with the chemistry and the personal feeling of the candidate. i mean, you can make an argument on behalf of everybody he seems to be looking at. and as katy says, there may be a surprise in that list, we don't know, or that's not clear on that list. but these things, as you know, chuck, come down to such a personal decision. >> it seems, though, that the key here might be the convention more than we realize. and i say that because, you know, i remember john mccain, the person he wanted to pick, he was told the convention wouldn't accept it, so he didn't do it. and that was joe lieberman. joe lieberman being pro-choice, that republican convention, there would have been a revolt

and they wouldn't do that. he has got to worry about a revolt. he can't hand them an easy reason to revolt. >> i would say two things about that, chuck. first of all, i don't think there's anybody on the list that we think is the list who would do to the convention what a pick by mccain of joe lieberman would have done that -- >> you don't think if scott brown had gotten pick,ed, because he's pro-choice -- >> but it's not shown he's a serious contender. >> i'm with you there. >> so, and the other thing is that donald trump is the most controversial figure at the republican convention this year, not whoever his vice president is. i mean, donald trump is the person who has divided the republican party, and it's now his convention and his need to unify it. he will have to be the principal person to unify the convention. certainly the right vice presidential pick could help or the wrong one could hurt on that, but ultimately, it is donald trump who is the real person that has to do that.

>> well, it's going to be interesting to watch. we'll see. how conventional does he go? or does he still try to shock us? dan balz from the "washington post" newsroom, thank you. >> thank you. >> coming up, blue crush. it's not just hillary clinton hoping to ride the wave of the president's popularity with democrats in north carolina. been trying to prepare for this day... and i'm still not ready. the reason i'm telling you this is that there will be moments in your life that... you'll never be ready for. your little girl getting married being one of them. ♪ ♪

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trail. the who and scott walker. local news in wisconsin is reporting he will speak at the republican national convention. trump plans to release the full list of speakers tomorrow. now to the what. it's more private e-mail news. no, no, not that. the d.c. circuit ruled that personal e-mail accounts can be subject to freedom of information act requests. the decision is unrelated to the clinton e-mail investigation, for now. now to the where. it's jupiter! nasa's juno spacecraft is now orbiting our solar system's largest planet. the $1.1 billion mission will focus on mapping jupiter's gravitational and magnetic fields. now to the when. july 28th, snoop dogg headlining a unity party at the democratic national convention. he endorsed hillary clinton over a year ago. i think in only the way snoop can, he wants to get the sanders supporters on board. it would be a different kind of smoke-filled room, i think. finally, to the why. the first round of voting in the conservative party's contest to

succeed david cameron as party leader and uk prime minister, home secretary theresa may leads that vote. and low vote-getter liam fox has been eliminated. stephen crabb also pulled out and supports may. the next round of voting is thursday. all 150,000 conservative members will pick a new leader. and the uk could be on the way to the second female uk prime minister. tonight's race of the day is a double feature, but first, here's josh lipton with the "cnbc market wrap." >> thanks, chuck. stocks finish lower, snapping a four-session winning streak. the dow falls 108 points. the s&p is off 14. the nasdaq sheds 39. four years after filing for bankruptcy protection, hostess is planning to go public. the offering is expected to value the maker of twinkies at about $2.3 billion. in late 2012, the company announced it would cut thousands of jobs and shut down.

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so, north carolina is the center of the political universe today. donald trump's going to be campaigning in raleigh, just about 90 minutes from now. a little over 150 miles from charlotte, where hillary clinton and president obama made their first joint appearance. they did that this afternoon. so, in north carolina, right there, smack dab in the battleground. so, it is one of the most important battleground states, but guess what, it's a lot more than that. the top two battleground cont t contests in the state are combined for the race of the game. governor pat mccrory is facing mark gruber in the key race in north carolina this year. senator richard burr faces off with deborah ross, a campaign people didn't think would get off the ground. they are hoping to piggyback on

the president's popularity and on what they hope is a democratic mini wave. ross and cooper did not attend clinton's last solo rally in june. mccrory and burr will be nowhere in sight for the trump rally. burr did not appear with trump last month in greensboro and he's in washington tonight. mccrory's spokesman says he is out of town on a long-scheduled trip with his wife. it is the end of a holiday weekend. clinton spent over $2 million on ads in north carolina last month, which is probably more important to cooper and ross than it is to her. clinton could probably win the presidency without carrying north carolina, but turnout will be the most important factor in the governor and senate races and a presidential level of turn yort and the efforts by democrats there, that's what ross and cooper need to overcome what are probably built-in hurdles. still to come, the fbi won't recommend charges against secretary clinton over her e-mail server, but we'll have

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still ahead, donald trump and republicans slam what they say is a rigged system in the wake of the fbi's decision on hillary clinton's e-mail controversy. did the party set its expectations too high? and then this just in from our own kelly o'donnell -- hillary clinton will break with political tradition and campaign during the republican national convention. often, candidates choose to stay quiet during their opponent's convention, a last excuse to frankly take some time off.

but hillary clinton is likely to make at least two speeches during the rnc speech. "the lid" is next.

thank you is what we say. but we mean so much more. we mean how can we help? we mean what can we do? we mean it's our turn. to do our part. to serve you, for all you've done to serve us.

♪ we're going to build on the vision for america that president obama has always championed, a vision for a future where we do great things together, not as red states and blue states, but as the united states. >> back now with "the lid." beth fouhy with msnbc and nbc. paul newman, president of the brendan center for justice at nyc and nan hayworth, former republican congressman from here in new york. welcome to you all. beth, let me start with you. something about his announcement today seemed incredibly consequential, and yet, incredibly status quo.

because here we are, it's the same story with the clintons. yeah, they mishandled, yeah, they did this. eh, but they just rode the line of the law. >> yeah. that does seem to be their pattern, right? and we saw it again here. i think it was very consequential, chuck. it's the scathing rebuke of her practices by james comey was quite striking. and any thought that they could just sort of skate away from it, and brian fallon, her spokesman, as you know, came out and said this matter is now resolved. it really isn't at all. there is so much ample material for ads, if the trump campaign had a need to put the ads on the air, if the super pacs had money to put ads on the air. it's incredible fodder for them. >> michael, how do you defend this, because it was tough? yes, you skated by what could have been a convention catastrophe. that didn't happen. >> it was tough. she got a scolding. she got some real criticism. i'm sure she would much rather have that than what the republicans were convincing themselves would happen, which

is an unprecedented indictment. i think she made a mistake on this and what we're also learning is that we've all wandered in this longstanding brawl between the agencies, between the fbi and the state department, over what's supposed to be considered classified. >> do you think she was poorly staffed? >> i don't know. >> i wonder that. part of me keeps wondering that, not to say that you blame -- >> a fish stinks from the head, chuck. >> i hear you, but -- >> we're in new york. >> but should staff have been better prepared for this? >> this obviously, for a zillion different reasons, is probably not what she wished she had done or what any of them wish they had done looking backwards. but i think that in the long run, the decision to close the case in that way is going to be what's consequential. you'll have people yelling about it, but politically i don't think it will be that significant. >> nan? >> two thoughts. number one, the clinton modus operandi is, again, better to beg forgiveness than ask permission. either she is capable of

actually doing the job of being president, which means having great discretion, having great judgment, or she doesn't. i'm a surgeon. and if somebody recommended me to me to you by saying she's incompetent but she's not malicious, i don't think you would use me. and you would be right not to use me. >> the one thing i don't think people say about hillary clinton is she's incompetent. >> that's what james comey just said. he laid out the case over and over again for why she was thoroughly incompetent in this capacity. >> the one thing the public knows is they have now decades of experience with hillary clinton and when they know about her is that she's smart and competent and these controversies swirl but as chuck said, they almost always turn out to be nothing. that goes in some respects -- >> i didn't say nothing. i said -- >> well -- >> what has she done -- >> technically legal but ethically questionable. >> i'm not defending what was done. >> she has shown up for 30 years

but what has she done? >> i want to bring something else before you make your point, which is so chairman bob good the house judiciary committee said a few minutes ago he just spoke with director comey, had a whole bunch of questions for him he doesn't believe he's gotten satisfactory answers on. i will read you a couple. how does secretary clinton's conduct differ from david petraeus or sandy berger? there is a difference there. i think it's a fair one. there's another question. the espionage chapter specifically, u.s. code 793f doesn't require that a subject intentionally or knowingly but with gross negligence act. this isn't going away for comey. he will get brought up to capitol hill to reexplain himself. >> i found that very interesting. what you just read is very much the kind of talking points for many of the republicans today. sean spicer, spokesman for the rnc, said exactly that. so many questions need to be answered. i wonder if it's politically

smart of them to shift this on to comey rather than on to hillary clinton's judgment and making good decisions. that seems like a more durable criticism than suggesting that comey was acting sort of shady when people basically on both sides of the aisle say he's a very trustworthy guy with great integrity. >> not some republican spokesman but the republican nominee reacted by saying comey's rigged. this guy was the deputy attorney general for george w. bush, is very much regarded for his independence and you know, it's appropriate for the republicans to yell and scream about this, but again, in the long run, sort of the fundamentals of this, i don't think it's going to be seen in the long run as that significant. >> i think some people with good scholarly and professional backgrounds, andrew mccarthy, rudy giuliani, are going to question his judgment in this particular capacity. >> rudy giuliani was on air today and said comey made an

error in judgment. he was quite deliberate there. >> a lot of prosecutors do, we forget he's a former prosecutor so he knows, he's staring at the evidence he's got and it sounds like, i felt like that sounded like a prosecutor and i had, look, it's tough to find anybody who anybody will consider neutral but the guy i had on was as neutral as you can find. a lot of prosecutors don't prosecute not because they don't think a crime's been committed but they don't have enough evidence. >> i think what the benign judgment we can allow is that he's looking at this saying this is so highly charged politically, this is a presidential race. i don't want to be seen somehow as the person who -- >> i said this to somebody else. he put it to the voters. he said let the voters make an indictment decision, essentially. he was taking us out of it. >> they said they hadn't seen any other cases like this.

i think the other part of this cycle is the overreach by republicans who have convinced themselves that she was going to be -- >> there's a lot of shocked republicans today. you know some of the conservative news media created this atmosphere. >> come on. loretta lynch meeting, chance meeting with president bill clinton. even if he said nothing and i bet you he didn't. just his presence alone. >> take the next step here. she never has a good answer for this. what can she do to somehow prove to voters who are skeptical of her trustworthiness that she's trustworthy? >> great question. a lot of times someone including her husband comes through a brutal primary season and has to make that case to voters when you think gee, aren't they done with that already, why should they have to reintroduce themselves. that happens a lot. the way she has to do it is both who she is in her heart, what she cares about but also the policies she's putting forward.

i think it was actually an opportunity for her to pivot because with president obama's full embrace today, that's actually meaningful to a lot of people. >> what could she do, do you think? you are an opponent, political opponent. what would you tell her to do? >> she's in a very difficult situation because she's proven that she can't be trusted with sensitive information. but how do you prove? she can try to point to accomplishments but really truly, what accomplishments does she have? makes it very difficult. >> i think what you saw today with president obama out there campaigning for her was what you just said. that's the proof she needs. this is the president of the united states. his approval rating has gone up over 50%, at least, maybe a bit more according to some polls. he's got great popularity with people that are not fond of hillary clinton in many cases and he gave a full-throated embrace to her. >> what would take have looked like if the presumptive nominee marco rubio and was already up

ten points? >> assuming he had not sent out an antisemetic tweet? >> fair enough. would have been a worse day for her, right? >> yeah. this is a divided country. anybody who is the nominee of either party these days immediately gets a lot of support. it's much harder to see a goldwater johnson nixon mcgovern type landslide but let's not underplay. this is the first time since 1908 that a popular president has gone all out for someone from their own party. >> usually -- there is truth to that. usually there are old wounds that haven't healed or they are unpopular. there's always a reason for it. >> hillary clinton is the richard nixon in this election. when you look at her, you say the same thing with nixon. why is this woman laughing? >> she would take one thing. he went two terms. she would take that. we'll leave it there. we'll be right back.

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that does it for us tonight. we'll be back tomorrow. "with all due respect" starts right now. in the mannamerican politic system there are two separate yet equally important groups. the candidates who run for office and the fbi investigators who decide whether to prosecute them. these are their stories.