him in dallas. craig, forgive the intrusion, but two things. number one, have you been given a satisfactory answer to your question all day, what happened to the multiple suspects, the idea of multiple suspects? and number two, for people tuning in at the top of this hour, can you debrief us on your interview, which i saw in the last hour, with the man wrongly identified as a suspect last night, his photo disseminated around the world. his photo was still on the dpd website as of late this afternoon. and, oh, by the way, he carried an ar-15 to a peaceful rally. >> let's start with your first question about my question, those suspects. at one point, three of them, we were told. we were also told they'd not been cooperating. i've asked a number of guests on

our air about that. they've had no idea what's happened to the suspect. we heard earlier during one of the news conferences, the police chief didn't comment on it. refused to comment it. i sent a text message, an e-mail rather to a public information officer. i've sent one twice asking about the suspects. i've gotten nothing. perhaps we'll hear more during a news conference. governor abbott set to hold a news conference at city hall a short time from now with the mayor, with the police chief. again, for folks who may not have been following this story as closely, there were four suspects. one of them killed in the parking garage behind me when an explosive device was detonated at the end of a robot arm. another suspect, we are told, was cornered and police took him into custody or her into custody and there were two other suspects. there was a black mercedes involved and a bag being tossed.

we don't know what's happened to any of these people but we're working to get an answer to that question. with regards to shawn hughes, the gentleman we had on a short time ago and there was that picture widely circulated in the wee hours of the morning of a guy who was wearing a camouflage t-shirt with an ar-15 strapped to his chest he was participating in that protest with his older brother corey. and as he was leaving, the shots rang out, chaos ensued. his brother realizing that the sight of him with an assault rifle strapped to his chest may not be the best idea, encouraged him to turn it over to police. police take the weapon. he goes home. a call a short time -- just so you know, you're a suspect. and this police massacre.

have you seen the pictures? he gets on and looks around and realizes he's got to do something. he turns himself in. at last check, that photo was still up in some places online. however, dpd says they have taken off their main feed. we have not checked within the last 15 or 20 minutes to see if that is accurate. but he is looking for more than an apology. in addition, brian, we can tell you that the investigation continues here. there is still a sizable portion of downtown dallas that is roped off. investigators are still working feverishly here. within the past hour or so, perhaps two hours, we saw the mobile command unit move in behind me. we can tell you also, just learning here that more than 200 officers -- 200 officers have been interviewed so far. based on those officer interviews with dpd, at least 12 officers opened fire during last

night's exchange with at 25-year-old. we can also tell you in the last few moments we've learned during the search of the suspect's home, detectives found, among other things, bomb making materials, ballistic vests, rifles, ammunition, a personal journal of combat tactics, as well detectives in the process of analyzing the information contained in the journal. we know that he had military experience, brian. and based on what officials have hauled out of that house, it appears as if this was a guy that was perhaps planning for something even worse than what we saw unfold last night. >> craig melvin on the streets of dallas where the feels-like temperature topped 100 degrees hours ago. and the real temperature has been in the low to mid-90s all day. on top of everything else folks are dealing with there. craig, thank you. a bit more on the suspect. we've taken his military

records, what the pentagon was able to give us, and passed them by retired colonel jack jacobs. medal of honor recipient and one of our military affairs experts. jack confirms after looking at what's been made available to us, he was not in the infantry. he was not in a front line combat unit. he was in a secondary unit assigned to a carpentry job as part of a engineer brigade during his years of service during his deployment overseas. he was living in his mother's house in mesquite, texas. where investigators have been going in and out. among the wounded, tammy leitner is outside of baylor university medical center where we've been checking in with her because baylor is a level one trauma center and caught most of the victims here.

tammy? >> that's right, brian. some of the victims are still here. and what you can't see is on the other side of the emergency room here, there has been a steady stream of police officers coming and going all day. we're not just talking about from dallas. we're talking about from the entire state of texas. now some of these officers were also out here last night overnight paying their respects. we have some video. an emotional scene. officers lined up and saluted as two of their fallen officers pass through the emergency room. hospital staff was there as well paying their respects. we now have the names on three of those deceased officers. patrick zamarripa. he was an iraq war veteran. he survived three iraqi wars. michael krol, a former sheriff's deputy out of wayne county, michigan. and then brent thompson was a d.a.r.t. officer. he had just gotten married two

weeks prior. of the three d.a.r.t. officers that have been injured, one has been released. the other two are still in the hospital but they are expected to recover. back to you, brian. >> tammy, thanks. to folks just joining us and learning the lingo, dpd, dallas police department. that is the main metropolitan police force in the city of dallas. d.a.r.t., dallas area rapid transit. both of them, of course, responded. both of them were caught up in all of this. we are joined now by republican congressman will herd of the state of texas. congressman, thank you very much for coming on the air with us. we last saw you during yesterday's live coverage. the hearing. the questioning of the director of the fbi. you, yourself, are a veteran of the clandestine services. i'm curious to get your reaction to what has transpired in your

state. >> brian, thanks for having me on. first, like everybody else in america, my heart goes out to the families of those who have lost a loved one. i can't imagine how they're feeling today and for those families that have someone that's still in critical condition. that their days may even get worse. it's hard. it's crazy to think that someone is willing to kill innocent people like this. it's horrific. but dallas is showing how we can unite together to deal with this problem. i hope this is an example of where, you know, law enforcement, we're protecting peaceful protests of law enforcement tactics. and when things went south, these were men of law enforcement that were willing to give the ultimate prize. we should be able to use that as an example to come together to try to prevent something like this from happening in the future. >> a question i've been asking all of our guests no matter what walk of life.

what do we do about the problem of two groups in this country feeling like they are under attack? black folks when they have any interaction with police, and now police officers across america? >> listen, this is a problem. and, you know, i think this is an area where actually washington can lead. you have legendary civil rights leader john lewis, and then you have folks like dave reichert who was a law enforcement officer, sheriff for almost 33 years. guys like that working together to have conversations so that people aren't talking past one another but how we can solve some of these problems. we can do hearings on making sure that local law enforcement have the necessary training in order to handle these kinds of issues. when you look at something like orlando, are these local law enforcement and local police departments, do they have the capabilities and the training

nrd in order to deal with an active shooter. there's a lot of these things that could happen going forward to ensure that these two groups don't feel like they're being targeted. >> when you hear somebody like the governor of minnesota say it is highly unlikely what happened in minnesota would have happened to a white couple, a white family in similar circumstances driving in a car, are you inclined to agree with them? >> listen, it's 2013 and it's unfortunate that people feel that way. and that could possibly happen. you know, this is one of those things where our hearts should go out to the castile family, as well as the families of the members of law enforcement in dallas. this is something that we should solve together. this is something we can solve together. but we have to make sure we're talking with one another. we can't retreat to our corners and bring out the same tired talking points that always get brought out after an event like this. we actually have to talk and

identify the problems and make sure that we agree on the >> congressman will hurd, a republican from the state of texas. a cia veteran with at least one afghanistan deployment under his belt. congressman, thank you very much for coming on the air with us. >> thank you, brian. i am joined now by two eyewitnesses to last night's shooting. they were there. rathita and tayshon jackson. husband and wife. they were walking back to their car. when the gunfire erupted, you can take it one at a time. when was the first realization you had that this was not fireworks, that this was in fact, the worst possible thing at the end of a peaceful rally? >> as i was walking back, we were separated for a moment. i saw the crowd rushing towards me. i was like, what's really going on? i ran with them and huddled up

together and a few moments later, we realized they were yelling, they are shooting, they're shooting. i realized my wife is not with me. she called me the same time and told me where she was. as i'm trying to get to her, that's where they tell me that's where the shooter is shooting at. that made me more ter fid. i have to get to my wife. i'm going to run no matter what. i made it to her. >> i was -- >> go ahead. i'm sorry. >> we were -- i was on the left side of the protest as it was understanding. i started down commerce street. and as i started down, 30 seconds to a minute after i first heard the first shot, which i know now was a shot and i hear motorcycles and police cars and everybody was screaming. i didn't even realize it was a gunshot. we just -- i just kind of ducked over to the side to see what was actually happening. that's when we started to realize, oh, this is very real. there's something very wrong happening, and, like he said, i

called him immediately and we coordinated. i came down commerce. switched over to jackson street and we coordinated at the greyhound station. it was pretty surreal because we couldn't tell which direction the shots were coming from because everybody was panicked and just trying to stay safe. >> i've heard today of so many families, couples who got separated, people who got separated from their kids in the crowd. a lot of them were kind of lulled into a hot night in dallas, texas. a rally that had gone well, featured a lot of families. a lot of folks brought their kids. and getting separated must have been, in addition to the realization it's gunfirks getting separated must have been the most harrowing feeling. >> it was pretty scary. there was. the protest itself was very peaceful. it was very jovial. people were laughing, interacting, having a good time

with what was happening. and it just, in a matter of seconds went completely in a different direction than any of us could even imagine. people started looking out for each other, even in the greyhound station. there were some little girls who got separated. we were all working together to try to find their parents and make sure they were together. but, yeah it was extremely scary for a little while. >> mr. jackson, did you then -- i know some people had to spend the night outside. they got kind of locked in the protective zone. were you able to get home, and then did you just stay up watching the coverage? >> nope, haven't been home yet. it wasn't until they decided to shut down the greyhound station i decided the omni hotel is two blocks away. i'm going to go to the omni hotel. been here ever since. want to go to my car, and i can't. car is behind me. >> we're happy to have you two up and well and safe given the

loss of life, the number of wounded and the sheer terror of last night. we want to thank you both for coming on the air, mr. and mrs. jackson, and sharing your story with us. thanks very much. >> you're welcome. >> thanks for having us. >> we're going to take a break. our live coverage will continue on the other side. >> a vicious, calculated and despicable attack on law enforcement. there's no possible justification for these kinds of attacks or any violence against law enforcement. ♪ take on any road with intuitive all-wheel drive. the nissan rogue, murano and pathfinder. now get 0% apr for up to 72 months, plus $500 bonus cash.

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it hurt me. it really -- nobody, absolutely nobody should have to go through and witness what dallas went through today. it was utterly unacceptable. no man, woman, cat or dog should

use gun violence to retaliate or to show the hurt. hurting people hurt people. >> that was diamond reynolds. she was last in the news yesterday. that was the girlfriend of philando castile. the woman who live streamed in effect his death after the encount ir with the police officer in minnesota on facebook live. now having been seen by a national audience. one of two deaths by police hands. the other was in louisiana that led up to last night's spate of almost spontaneous protests in population centers across the country. and all kinds of folks went out last night as they did peacefully in dallas. trymaine lee is standing by in dallas for the appearance of governor abbott of texas.

i'm sitting here thinking, we're about to hear from the third straight governor after a case of gun violence. we heard from the governor of louisiana. we heard last night at around this time from the governor of minnesota who made news in his remarks. now we are hearing from the governor of texas. >> that's right, brian. so often when we have instances of police violence or violence like here in dallas, we think in terms of a racial fault like beneeths the city. so many people have resigned themselves that beneath this entire country there's a rupturing racial falt line. when governor abbott returns to dallas, he should be returning any moment now, he'll be returning to a city under a cloud of grief. when you talk to folks in this community, the words they use, their feelings and sentiments about not just the despicable act that occurred here, but the acts that happened in baton rouge and minnesota and ferguson

and baltimore. they say so many of the young people across this country are disaffected. they feel their voices aren't being heard and that it's only a matter of time before things explode. in baton rouge yesterday, a minister whose son was killed by police. and he said that these young people are coming and begging for help. and every time an older generation or the clergy comes and calms them down. each time he said how many times when you let them slap us without standing up. even though these folks do not condone this kind of violence, i wonder what next, when the next police officer kills a young black man and there is no prosecution or charges or hung jury or acquittal. what do you tell young people who already have very little faith in the system? last night's actions also have kind of introduced a very troubling dynamic in the black lives matter movement and other organizations. trying to figure out how they

pivot from this in a sense of love and healing. >> absolutely. all the points you raised, absolutely right. and we may have a gentleman who is ideally suited to get those questions. trymaine, thank you. we'll be coming back to you. we'll televise live the texas governor's remarks when he arrives. for now let's bring on from baton rouge, louisiana, cornell william brooks, president of the naacp. and, sir, take on those questions from trymaine. what do you tell young people? >> we tell young people that we are the moment of testing and trying in this country. and so we grieve for the families of the five officers who lost their lives beside peaceful protesters standing in opposition to police misconduct. and we also grieve for the 500 families of those who lost their lives at the hands of the police thus far this year. we tell our young people that we

can stand up for the highest values of this country. we can stand under conscience and the constitution vehemently, unapologetically against police misconduct, even as we stand with and for those law enforcement officers who are doing their jobs fulfilling their oaths at this trying time. and so this is a moment for exhibiting the best of our character as a country. think about this, brian. we had police officers who lost their lives beside peaceful protesters in a protest, a demonstration against police misconduct. that speak to their character. it speaks to the character of the protesters. it speaks to the character of our constitution. it speaks to the character of our country. that's something to hold on to. to regard as a source of hope. even as we move forward. >> for a long time, the naacp was the movement in what's called the struggle.

now there are a few, but what does speaking for the naacp, what does the movement do now? >> the naacp has stood with sister organizations for the last 100 years in the height of the civil rights movement. there were always other civil rights organizations. so we stand shoulder to shoulder with sister organizations. be clear, the 2,200 branches in all 50 states of this country stand in lockstep solidarity against police misconduct. we stand together, and we stand calling the nation to come together across lines of race, across lines of region. so that we don't turn on each other. we turn forward and we turn against those things that might separate us, those things that do divide us. we've got to be clear. we kacan't sugarcoat the proble or paper over the problem and the challenge of race in this country. when a young black man is 21

times more likely to lose his life at the hands of the police than his white counterpart, that's real. it cannot be ignored. so we need governors, mayors, members of congress to take legislative action. pass the end racial profiling act. pass law enforcement trust and integrity act. pass racial profiling laws in our state legislatures. it's not enough for us to wring our hands in grief as we see and witness one hash tag tragedy after another. we have to decide as a country to reform policing. we're well able to do this. think about this. the naacp came into being in the last century to combat a form of racialized violence called lynching. we brought lynching to an end. in this 21st century, we see a form of racialized violence called police misconduct. we can bring it to an end. it means us standing together. it means us going to the polls. it means us implementing a plan

and a strategy and working with law enforcement that wants to work with young activists, old activists, naacp, black lives matter movement. with anyone, any american of good conscience of whatever ethnicity, hue or heritage, anywhere in the country willing to stand up for the country's highest values. because this we know. when we have police departments that regard african-americans and latinos as objects of suspicion, not subject of protection, we have a real problem. we cannot have communities living in fear and in apprehension. so this is a moment to come together. we can't turn on each other. i believe the naacp having done what it is that we do for the last 100 years, this is a moment in which we'll step forward and step with and step beside and in front of and alongside anyone

who is willing to confront this problem. >> standing in front of the mini mart in baton rouge that's become an impromptu memorial due to the death of alton sterling, cornell brooks, president and ceo of the naacp. thanks for being with us on the air tonight. >> thank you, sir. we'll be right back after another break. an outside to ins. transitions® lenses automatically filter just the right amount of light. ask for transitions xtractive lenses. extra protection from light... outdoors, indoors and in the car.

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what i'm interested in is bringing our country together, not deepening the divides. and i want white people to

understand how african-americans feel every day. the anxiety and fear are. i want people to put themselves in the shoes of police officers and their families who get up every day and go off and do a very dangerous job. yes, i'm going to do my best to try to bring that about in my campaign and then in the white house. >> hillary clinton, part of a live interview she did here on msnbc with lester holt in the last hour. she also talked about the toxic environment in this country right now. but specifically those two populations. black folks who feel targeted, police officers who feel targeted after this very, very fast motion chain of events. starts in baton rouge, louisiana. goes to minnesota. concludes last night with this terrible outburst of violence. the ambush killing of five officers. the killing of the suspect with

a bomb, the stuff of warfare delivered to the suspect by robot late last night with a booming noise in the downtown section that signaled to police that the suspect had been silenced. craig melvin having enjoyed a break of something like 26 minutes from our live coverage is standing by once again in dallas with more. craig? >> clint jenkins is the highest elected official in dallas county. he's been here six years. i came to know you during the ebola scare here in texas. we were watching that clip of hillary clinton. and you said the presumptive democratic nominee called you this morning. >> she did. we had a long conversation about the longest one i've had with anyone since this happened. and i agree with the comments that she made. we talked about our first responders and police who were hurting and also the racial divide in this country and the need to not have hateful rett

ruk and the need to grow together as a country. >> is that what you think brought about last night, the hateful rhetoric in this country, or was it more than that? >> we'll never know exactly what was in mr. johnson's mind. but what he told us moments before he died is that he wanted to kill white people. he particularly wanted to kill white officers. that he was upset about black lives matter which we can infer the underpinning concerns of that movement. so i think that played a role in his act but he chose his act and now we as a community and nation get to choose our response. hopefully we'll come together. >> i know that you are in charge of homeland security and emergency management here in dallas county. let's talk about the scene behind us. is this an active crime scene? 20 blocks in downtown, dallas, still shut down? >> it's an active crime scene.

the perimeters have not changed since we laid them out about 3:00 yesterday -- or this morning. we will try to shrink that and let people back into the area once we're absolutely sure that the area is cleared and all the evidence has been harvested from that area. that could take a short amount of time. it very easily could be the parts of downtown are shut down well into the next workweek. >> this 25-year-old shooter at this point, we know he was an army vet. we know he did not have a criminal record. was he someone that was known to authorities here in dallas county at all? >> not to my knowledge, no. as you said, he didn't have a criminal record. wasn't on any kind of a watch list. we don't have any indication that he has a tie-in to either domestic or an international terror group. >> i do want to end with the same question i've asked a number of folks today. you were here moments after the

shots started. we were told last night, earlier today, there were these other suspects who had been rounded p up, questioned. at one point not cooperating. are there suspects still in custody who are being questioned right now? and if not, what happened to those suspects? >> well, so it's a broad net that was cast. many people were questioned. you saw on television the people in the mercedes were stopped. the man who had a long rifle. an apb was put out to bring him in as a person of interest. i've got so much classified information swimming around in my head, i don't want to give any of that to you that could impede the investigation but we're leaving no stone unturned to follow every lead and run every lead to ground. >> are there still suspects in custody? >> again, we may have more information for you in about 15 minutes. >> and that's because you're heading over to that news conference with governor abbott and the mayor and police chief? >> yeah, we may be able to

answer that question at that conference. >> clay jenk ins, thank you. brian, back to you. >> there's the proof that they know more than they're saying and we'll have live coverage of that press conference when it begins. judge jenkins, thanks. another break for us. we're back with more right after this. >> last night's killer acted with a depraved misbelief that the murder of police officers solves the problem. just like last night's killer does not represent all those who seek to bring about change, any police officer who engages in excessive force does not represent all those in law enforcement.

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that blue line they talk about was in evidence last night. parkland hospital in dallas, texas, which came to national prominence after the assassination of john f. kennedy. it, along with other trauma

centers in north texas, pressed into service last night, as were all people in uniform. they lost, of course, five police officers last night and into this morning. we're joined right now by the attorney general of the state of texas, ken paxton. and general, can you tell uthere's been some confusion today. when last we heard at the police briefing last night, we had a slew of possible suspects. a woman under arrest. we had that kind of controlled car chase on i-35. we had several suspects apprehended. are they still suspects, or was this as far as you know, a lone gunman? >> you know what? right now, i don't think we know for sure. i think they're still interviewing and going through these witnesses that they -- or these suspects that they've brought in. i don't think we're going to know for a while what we have. >> one thing a lot of people saw last night at the peaceful

demonstration, and a lot of people, frankly, welcomed it, was a kind of post-ferguson reform that your state has been a part of and police forces around the country. a kind of gentler stance on the part of law enforcement. they were using social media to send out pictures with some of the peaceful demonstrators. is this, in addition to being the death of the five police officers, is this, do you think, the death of that gentler stance by police now that they've been targeted? >> i certainly hope not. i admire the dallas police department for their approach to this. brave men and women who took the time and effort to protect these people and protect the first amendment rights and when it really came time to protoect them, they stood in the way of bullets and five of them gave their lives. i appreciate what law enforcement has done in this state and their willingness to reach out and have a softer,

gentler approach and try to resolve these issue. despite the negativity of what happened here, i hope we can move forward in a positive way. >> nothing about last night was political. this guy was a gunman and not a politician but we've heard some politicians say, especially in recent months that's if you have more good guys with guns than the bad guys with guns, that's going to give you the upper hand in a gunfight. you have an open carry state. did anything like that happen last night, or were police, perhaps, outgunned at the start of this? >> i'm a believer in the second amendment. texas has been liberal in granting people the ability to carry. it's been successful. obviously, nothing works perfectly, but i think texas will continue down that path because if people that are law-abiding citizens have the ability to protect themselves, we believe that's the better policy. >> the gentleman who did wear an ar-15 over his shoulder to the

rally who wise wrongly identified as a suspect, he was interviewed by craig melvin on our air about an hour and a half ago and said he was still up on the dallas pd website as of this afternoon. will he be hearing from any law enforcement officials along the lines of an apology or retraction? he's a free citizen. it turns out he was helping police last night. >> i'm not sure. the dallas police department is in charge of this investigation. the attorney general's office, which obviously i lead, is here to aid them. but they are making all of the decisions about the direction of the investigation and they'll have to deal with how they handle this man. >> i'm told thankfully for him the tweet has been taken down from the dpd website. ken paxton, attorney general of the state of texas. i know you have a press event coming up. we're looking forward to hearing from governor abbott and other officials. thank you, sir, for sharing your time with us.

>> thank you for having me on. i appreciate it. >> we are counting down to that press event in dallas. when it starts, we will go there live. in addition to our other coverage, we're waiting as well to hear from hillary clinton. while campaign politics has been sidelined for now, she is going ahead with a speech, an appearance before a massive religious gathering. the ame convention under way right now in philadelphia. there's the venue. our coverage continues right after this. [woodworker] i live in the fine details. that's why i run on quickbooks. i use the payments app to accept credit cards... ...and everything autosyncs. those sales prove my sustainable designs are better for the environment and my bottom line. that's how i own it.

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we saw no other option but to use our bomb robot and place a device on its extension for it to detonate where the suspect was. other options would have exposed our officers to grave danger. >> their officers had been in enough grave danger. that was dallas police chief david brown. note the black band on his badge after the loss of life in his department. talking about how they quote/unquote neutralized this shooter. for more on that, we want to bring in our law enforcement expert jim cavanaugh, former special agent in charge at the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms. jim, this is your life's work. i just cover these stories for a

living. most people have seen enough war movies, though, to know what a claymore mine is. it is right out of the warfare business. and for the first time in our recollection at least, they put a claymore mine on an extended arm of a robot and decided to dispatch with this gunman that way in that parking garage. that's pretty extraordinary, is it not? >> right, well, i'm not sure it's a claymore. i don't know if they exactly said that, but something in a configuration like that. what a claymore does, it has explosives on one side and bbs and fragmentation on the other side clearly marked front toward the enemy. it's a half cylindrical shape. something of that vain, even if the bomb squad improvised that or could have used it. of course, that's quite a large charge but they can get it smaller. they can get it out on the extended arm of the robot.

if they knew right where this assailant was, it would be like a shotgun right at him, right in the area he was. they could do that because beca parking garage was cleared of people. it's a strong structure, it's also vented so you are not going to destroy the building with the concussion that would go out through the open areas of the garage. so a lot of things worked in their favor. it was still a tough decision to do because it's not a normal tactic, but what the chief was saying, what you were pointing out, he's barricaded, he's alone. if you go in there to get him on a deliberate assault you are exposing your tactical officers to be shot by his rifle. he's already shot 11 officers. why do that? there would be no reason to do that. so you would negotiate with him, you would put gas in there or this tactic, the robot. i think because he claimed to have ieds, you just don't know if he could have a remote

trigger, cell phone trigger, and could detonate a bomb. that escalates the problem. you have to do something and they decided we have to do something, we can't hit him with the sniper rifle so we will use the robot with the extended arm and some kind of charge on the end of it to kill him. >> not to turn this into a western, but after you have ascertained that this guy is an assassin, has pulled off this ambush, you know who he is, you have communicated with him enough to know that he is motivated and emotionally disturbed, is there any value in taking him alive at that point? >> well, you want to take everybody alive. i guarantee you the s.w.a.t. team wanted to take him alive. those negotiators i'm sure were wearing their lips out trying to talk this guy into surrendering but he was in such a homicidal mania state, he had shot 11 officers, he probably emptied a few magazines full of his rounds

there, so he was in a frenzy, a shooting homicidal mania going on for maybe the better part of an hour. pretty hard guy to talk out, pretty hard guy to emotionally get down off of that, and then when he's talking about he wants to kill more officers and it's going to be the end, so it was a pretty hard situation to deal with. but the answer is they wanted to, they just didn't have an option to do it. really the only option would have been if they could negotiate him out and they weren't making any progress because he was still escalating. >> jim, this piece of video we have been playing, we have edited around the more gruesome portion of it. he is so brazen in his use and familiar with his use of a long weapon, he was not infantry in the army but of course, he has lived most of his life in a state that is very gun-friendly and allows open carry of the weapon he used in this attack last night.

it is striking to see someone opening fire in a public domain with that weapon. we are sitting here watching it and sadly, we also were able to see on camera last night the deaths of at least one of those officers. >> that was such a sad video to watch. you and i talked about it in the early hours this morning, about maybe he had been in the military, but the basic military where you fire a rifle, like you say, you're not some top combat infant infantryman or paratrooper. he wasn't working that way but he had shot a rifle. he could move a little bit to cover. that's when we said, he might have been in the military. it just reminds me so much of lee harvey oswald. he was a marine, a basic marine. he got a marksman or sharpshooter badge. it was basic stuff. a marine shooting a rifle. you have been in the schoolbook

depository. that's not a hard shot at all. so this guy had that basic military like we talked this morning and he was aggressive when he went after that officer behind the pillar. he ran at him when he was shooting so in that mania, homicidal, suicidal, that gave him an advantage. >> what a gruesome business. jim cavanaugh, thank you very much. as jim mentioned, he was with us into the wee hours of this morning as part of our coverage, when we were sorting out exactly what it was we were seeing here before our very eyes. another quick break. we are watching these two events. we are waiting for the live news conference with the governor of texas. we are waiting for hillary clinton to address that ame convention in philadelphia. e of everything online. and so many businesses rely on the united states postal service to get it there. that's why we make more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. the united states postal service. priority: you

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-- around multiple news outlets, and i didn't understand how i became a suspect. >> that gentleman's name is mark hughes. he was interviewed by our colleague craig melvin this afternoon. his photo was flashed around the country and around the world last night. he did in an open carry state, he did wear a camo shirt and ar-15 over his shoulder to that rally last night and he said to craig he wanted to assert his

second amendment privilege to do so. he was wrongly put out as a suspect by the dallas police department. he has since successfully had that photo taken down. cal perry was with us as evening turned into early morning, watching the progression of this story. cal, one of the scary parts is a lot of folks in the east had retired for the evening, darkness had just fallen on that rally in dallas when everything went south. >> yeah. and we for the first time that i can really remember, were able to watch it unfold online without any filters. i'm not sure that's a good thing. i don't know that we're ready sort of as a society to deal with what technology has brought us and we saw that playing out there with mark hughes. he found himself in a situation where suddenly his picture is circulated widely on social media which is exactly what you want to do if you're a police

department that's getting the word out of a person of interest or of a suspect which is how they phrased it on their twitter. i also don't know what the appropriate thing to do now is. they have removed the tweet. a lot of people on twitter are saying they should have a correctional tweet. i don't know that that would help the situation. his photo would still be out there. but certainly the dallas police department, a police department that has been very progressive in their use of social media, was live tweeting this march when the shooting started, now has to go back and do a lessons learned on social media, on the digital sphere, because it's now something that we just live with every day, these livestreaming videos, whether it's periscope or facebook live, this is the new reality. >> the brother of mark hughes was one of the organizers of the event. he spoke at the event. he appeared with his brother on live television today. again, cal, we talked about this last night. people on both coasts w