the situation in atlanta at this hour. there seems to have been a road closed where there is a bit of a standoff with a small crowd and police officers who are gathered there. chris hayes continues our live coverage now from dallas. our l coverage now from dallas. i'm chris hayes and this is msnbc's continuing live coverage of the deadly ambush attacks on police. officers were attacked while they were guarding a peaceful black lives matter protest. their final moments both captured in videos that shocked the conscious of the nation. in the after math of a heartbreaking week, we've seen some dispiriting responses including from a handful of conservatives who blame president obama and hillary clinton for the murders in dallas.

there is also a remarkable outpouring of empathy and compassion from people. >> let's not lose sight in our common humanity. the values that brought those protesters to the streets in dallas, the values that brought those protesters to the streets in washington last night, respect, decency, compassion, humanity. >> took me a long time and a number of people talking to me over the years to get a sense of this. if you are a normal white american, the truth is you don't understand being black in america. and you instinctively underestimate the level of discrimination and the level of additional risk. black lives matter too a would in fact try to be a corrective which initially people reject because it's not in their world. >> still, i think the collective

feeling many of us feel today, i certainly do, is a sense of something coming undone and a mooring that has led to an outbreak of violence. some asking if america is repeating one of the worst years, 1968. the year when issues of race and policing and politics combusted in riots and anger and a general sense the country might have been coming apart all set against the bag drop of a presidential election. joining me now are trymaine lee, james moore and les pane. mr. pane, let me begin but. there are people i have seen time and time again at each sort of moment whether it was the violence that we have seen at rallies, at trump rallies particularly, many by trump supporters, in some cases recently in san jose, people protesting trump, whether the political violence, comparisons to this iconically awful year,

1968. what is your reaction as someone who has been through it? >> well, i think what we have at play here is a similar trigger, which is the racially despair rat application of excessive and in these particular case deadly force. and i think the reaction of the people who identify most closely with the victims feel this disparate and newt gingrich is right. whites don't know and they are often in denial about it. but in term hes of 1968, i think that there are similarities, but each of these situations are different because the country has moved quite a bit. but the triggers are the same. it still continues to be a de

despair rat application of force. in. a fix books mixture of violence and politics is the most combust bl. >> i'm wondering if we had run the civil rights movement through the prism of social media. i was a young guy back in 1967 when the riots happened in detroit. and that was in many ways similar to what we're seeing here, which was a sort of tamped down anger, a sense of frustration. remember john kennedy had been dead only four years but nothing had happened in terms of the civil rights law. legislation wasn't signed until 1968 and police in detroit went into a beer joint and shut it down over licensing issue and then there was a cascade of anger because people had been frustrated.

african-americans were about 38% of the armeded forces in vietnam, but they also had high unemployment numbers in the country at that time and they didn't see any movement. and before it was over, detroit had lost about 2,000 buildings, about 50 lives. governor had called in the national guard. and i think that same sense of frustration is what we're seeing now because people are seeing things happen through social media and they're not feeling like justice is being served and we're 50, 60 years down the road and nothing seems to have advanced very much. >> you just came from baton rouge and you've been writing about this. what were things like in baton rouge? >> replace baton rouge with ferguson, with sanford, with malt more. the sense that people felt that their voices weren't being heard, that for a long time things have been a certain kichd way and they had no recourse. the one thing that seems to

hinge whether 2016 or '68, these ideas of tipping points. and at this moment where hopefully things will change, but there is a residual trauma that people feel. and the one thing that comes up over and over again when i'm talking to folks across the country is that they're deeply hurt. but they feel like people aren't recognizing that hurt and trauma. >> and les, this sense of lack of recognition has also been arguably driving a lot of what has been happening in the trump phenomenon. i don't want to say that the conditions of white work class americans and african-americans are equal in any way or that substantively that those situations in american life are the same. the subjective feeling of a lot of people you could see and they will tell you themselves at a trump rally is that they are not being heard, that the country does not belong to them in some meaningful accepts, that they are victimized and oppressed and

no one is listening. >> no question trump supporters are frustrated.victimized and o one is listening. >> no question trump supporters are frustrated. and i think it is because we need to look basically what is at play here. president obama in '08 and again in 2012 won in 201259% of all whites who voted voted against him. they did not vote for him. so they feel that they are the majority. that is because president obama tactfully and his supporters axelrod and others put together a coalition of african-american, latino, asians and young whites who voted for him. and they were able to override the will of i would say like 75% and particularly baby beeoomers.

but that still does not get to what you are covering. that is the criminal justice system. that has everything to do with accountability. you go back to 1968 and dr. king was killed on april 4 and james earl ray was not caught until a month later. so the country felt that there had been no accountability for this white sniper who had gunned down one of the great leaders of the 20th century. >> i had completely forgotten about that month when james earl ray was on the run and the sort of -- that exact sense of -- the sense, though, of unequal justice seems to be also what is sort of pervaded this week in the sense that people -- no one feels in some sfratrange way th they're getting a fair shot. >> i agree with this, but one of the things that i think that we're all sort of dancing around in our national discourse of this, chris, is that we're refusing to acknowledge that there is a certain percentage of

our population which is angry in a way that goes beyond political that barack obama is our president and they don't like if simply because of the color of his skin. and that has animated them in ways that i think have ban gone for many decades, but it has come back. and i think that that is a part of our psyche and we need to confront it. you can ask for prayers all you want. it's easy to say let's all pray together and solve this, but it takes a hell of a lot of coverage to stand up and do something about it, and i think our country is looking for that kind leadership right now. from you hear this term which i find insidious of race relations because it takes away hierarchy and in-equally like the relations are high between equals, right? you also hear republicans say

this and donald trump basically said this, they prosecute the case against obama on those ground ground. but polling shows perception of race relations has declined and they lay this at the feet of barack obama. here is the first black president and race relations has declined and we have the largest civil rights uprising that we have had in a generation. >> lay their unwillingness to work with him and all the guns and everything that made america what it is. and this idea of false sense ever unity, yesterday in baton rouge, the governor was in a beautiful church full of beautiful black middle class folks and outside they were protesters saying no more prayers. at the same time the governor is saying i'm should proud of our community, look at this unity. not a single person out on the street was in that church. across this country, they're

demanding to be heard. and so we can play the political games and gamesmanship and say it's worse under president obama, but things have never not been like this. it's that young people are final a standing up in traumatic ways make their voices heard. >> you're seeing live footage of philadelphia and atlanta when a protest winding around the civil rights museum quite fittingly on this hot summer and very tragic day here in this very long year already midway through. thank you gentlemen for your time. i really appreciate it. coming up, with rush limbaugh deeming it it a terrorist group and sarah palin saying it is seeking to weaken america, black lives matter next.

suspect stated he was not affiliated with any groups and he stated that he did this alone. >> dallas police chief david brown's declaration the shooting suspect was not affiliated with any group. chief brown also said the suspect stated he was upset about "black lives matter" and the recent police shoots and wanted to kill white people especially white officers. perhaps comments like no have caused some to point the blame at protesters and activists who mobilized over two police shootings. texas lieutenant governor dan patrick said i to blame people on social media with their ha

hatred on police. last night there were peaceful protests across the country and here in dallas, as well, until the last moments pl "black lives matter" released a statement that says this is a tragedy both for those who have been impacted by yesterday's attack and for our democracy. black activists have raised a call for an end to violence, not an escalation before yesterday's attack was the result of the actions of a lone gun man. to assign the actions of one person to an entire movement is dangerous and irresponsible. joining me now, co-founder alicia garza. there is the written response to there is dan patrick and others who have essentially said the rhetoric of this movement has created a rhetorical situation that has essentially given kind of tacet okay for people to act in a violent matter to police including last night. what do you say? >> first and foremost, it's

important for us to just acknowledge that anytime somebody loses their life before its time, it is a tragedy. "black lives matter" has never ever called for the murder of police officers. what we have said over and over again is that it is time in this country for policing to be accountable, transparent and responsible. that is not rhetoric. that is what communities in the united states want to see from the people when protect and serve them. and so quite frankly, we can at the same time that we grieve the loss of life of several officers who were killed last night, we can also push to demand that there be accountable responsible, transparent policing and that is accountable to the communities they are supposed to protect and serve.

>> from your perspective, is the problem that we face a problem of the police or a problem of policing? meaning is it the individuals that comprise the various 1.3 i think million law enforcement officials, the folks that are recruited, the folks that are there, or is it what policymakers have assigned those individuals, what the system has demanded those individuals to do? >> absolutely. the issue that we're concerned with is the hyper criminalization of black bodies in this country. and a part of how that happens is through policing. there is an entire system that teams black people as criminals and agents on that assumption. and there are people tasked with carrying out that activity. we are not anti-police. we are anti-our people being murdered in the streets. what happened to alton sterling,

what happened to philando castile is absolutely unacceptable and i think that is something we can all agree on. >> there are police that i've spoken to and i think after what happened last night here is my fear. many of the police i've. so to about decisions about use of force always stress it is a split second decision, we live in a country with more guns than people. anyone could be armed. and if you make the wrong decision, you're going to be killed. are you worried essentially that the experience last night in dallas will reverberate through police departments who are going to be perhaps understandably i think scared and more on edge in the weeks and months to come? >> i am. i'm concerned that what we will do with these tragedies is use it as an excuse to curtail people's civil liberties. the reality is that last night a

peaceful demonstration happened in dallas. the reality is that peaceful gln stragss have been happening across this country for years now. and unfortunately, with the characterization of groups like "black lives matter" and groups inside ever the "black lives matter" movement as domestic terrorist organizations, i am concerned that the level of rhetoric that is coming from the far right and from people who are being kind of consumed by a level of fear is that it will curtail our civil liberties, our ability to have freedom of speech, our ability to peacefully assemble, and our ability quite frankly to reshape our democracy which is a fundamental right of every person in this country. and so what i would hope that we do moving forward is start to have some real conversations about what needs to shift. we tochbt need to don't need to

have more goveruns than people. we don't have to have a reality where you are more likely to be shot and killed by a police officer than you may be to graduate from a college or university. those are the dynamics that we need to change and if we really want it move in a forward direction, then we will to everything that we can in this moment to address the root causes of some p tof the proble that we're facing. >> it's been two years almost exactly since michael ferguson was killed and the brifirth of "black lives matter" as a movement. is there something when you started that you thought you knew about criminal justice in this country, about policings that you now realize you were wrong about? >> i think in the three years actually since "black lives matter" has been in formation, one thing that i'm really, really clear about is that "black lives matter" is not just concerned with what happens in

policing. that the disregard, the disrespect and lack of dignity for black life tran krepds through the fabric of society. and if i'm more clear about anything today, i'd say is that we are in for about an uphill battle, that this country in particular is having a very, very difficult time with addressing the root causes of the problems that we face. and that until we actually get to that point, unfortunately i do believe that we will have a lot more chaos and confusion. >> alicia, thank you very much. still to come, dallas department has seen massive reforms. chief brown's story after this break. >> i'm born and raised here. dallas is a great city.

our officers will continue to put themselves in harm's way to protect these great citizens. so it's worthwhile.

we don't feel much support most days. let's not make today most days. >> chief david brown this morning speaking as someone who has battled hurt and loss again and again throughout his career and personal life. just six years ago in 2010, a short time after being promoted to chief, brown's son fatally shot a man and minutes later he also shot and killed a lancaster texas police officer before brown himself was killed by officers. in 1988, chief brown then an office in the physical evidence section lost his former partner in the line of duty. he told the there is morning news, you lose a partner, just never get over it. three years after that, his

younger brother, kevin brown, was killed in 19991 in the phoenix area by drug dealers. david brown has dealt with some very public pain as has the entire dallas police tent. because of brown's leadership, the department is it appears moving in the right direction. that's it from dallas. our coverage continues throughout the day here on msnbc.

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