and take on whatever comes next. find out how american express cards and services can help prepare you for growth at open.com. philandophilando. rachel has the night off today but she will be back on monday. this is atlanta, georgia right now, just a giant protest that's been growing throughout the night, much of the afternoon and the evening. this is philadelphia. we have a lot to get to tonight. sit worth taking a moment to consider just how we got here. it's been just a horrifying, gut-wrenching, exhausting, crazy 72 hours in america. it's been hard to wrap your mind and your heart around everything that has happened since last tuesday night. first we were confronted with a chilling video of a man in baton rouge, louisiana named alton

sterling who had been shot and killed by police. who appeared to have him pinned to the ground. alton sterling was a father of five. the next day, in falcon height, minnesota, a man named philando castile was shot dead by an officer during a traffic stop. his girlfriend, whose 4-year-old daughter was in the back seat broadcast the aftermath live on facebook. the back-to-back killings of black men at the hands of law enforcement were so disturbing that president obama, who had just arrived in poland for a nato summit, made a lengthy statement to the press shortly after landing, urging us as a country to, quote, do better. last night thousands of black lives matter and other protesters gathered in peaceful demonstrations across the country. then during one of the peaceful protests in dallas just 24 hours ago, all hell broke loose.

during a march in downtown dallas, shots rang out in what we now know is a targeted attack on police. five officers were killed. seven were wounded. two civilians were also injured. after an hours' long standoff, police killed a suspect with a bomb delivered by a robot, a robot usually designed to disarm bombs. but there was also widespread confusion about whether there may have been more than one shooter, and whether others were in custody or still at large. president obama stepped to a podium in warsaw to give a second statement just hours after his first one, this time about the, quote, vicious, calculated, and despicable attacks in dallas. and today a man accused of a shooting rampage on a tennessee highway early thursday morning, a shooting that left one woman dead and three others injured, including a police officer, that man told police today he did it because he was angry about police violence against african americans. so this is what has happened in just the last 72 hours.

and we're still learning new information by the hour about the attacks in dallas. authorities have now established that there was just one shooter in that attack. he was micah xavier johnson. he was 25 years old and served a tour in afghanistan as an army reservist from november 2013 to july 2014. according to the dallas police chief, johnson told a hostage negotiator he was upset about recent police shootings, and he wanted to kill white people, especially white police officers. dallas mayor mike rawlings says this evening johnson was moving around, firing at officers from different levels of a building. sources tell nbc news he used an sks rifle, a long gun that generally serves as a semiautomatic weapon. and a handgun. and he was also wearing body armor. when police searched johnson's home, they found bomb-making materials, ballistic vest, rifles, and ammunition. and what they described as a, quote, personal journal of combat tactics. johnson had no criminal record. investigators say they have

found no links between johnson and any extremist groups. we've also learned the identities of the five officers who were killed. 43-year-old brent thompson, a dallas area rapid transit officer. he was the first officer killed in the line of dude 40-year-old michael krol, an eight-year veteran of the dallas pd whose friends say he became a cop so he can help people. michael smith who first joined the dallas police in 1989. and lorne ahrens who spent 14 years in the department. that's what we learned, what we know at this hour. but we're still left with in questions. what led to this? how much premeditated planning went into they tack, and was it meant to be connected to last night's protest or was the shooter just looking for any opportunity. was anyone else aware of his plans? and most of all, can we have a cohesive national reaction to

all of this that improves things rather than making them worse? joining us is dallas county judge jenkins. thank you so much for your time tonight. i know this has been a really difficult time for you and the citizens of dallas. let's start by asking how your community is doing tonight. >> i think the community is strong. they've really shown a lot of support for the officers. i know the first responders and the people that are out working this crime scene behind me. they feel that support. we're really feeling that from our community. but understandably, people are shocked and horrified by what happened, including the officers who had to work straight through the night on this, who knew the people who had died. so it's a very difficult evening and day for them. and i'm very proud of the work that they've done. >> and have you had an opportunity to speak with the families of any of those

officers who were killed? >> i have, and i've been in the emergency operations center, working with the officers that are doing the sweeps of the areas of the logistics, the investigations. but i understand chief brown had an opportunity to reach out to each family. these were not my officers. these were the city of dallas officers and dart officers. >> talk a little bit about -- you said obviously these were dart officers and they were city officers. can you give sort of a sense of what the police and culture was like? the person who is now deceased, he'll never be able to be questioned about this. the indications are that he had animus against police officers and, quote, white police officers. can you talk a little bit about what the police community relationship is like to your knowledge in dallas? >> it's -- statistically, it's a good relationship, but, you

know, we have a racial division in this country. and our county of 2.5 million people is not immune from that. we have racial divisions and the issues with that, like any other community. but we do regularly see protests happen in the downtown area of dallas. it's a pretty progressive community here in dallas county. and our officers intermingle with the protests and these things are done peacefully all the time. unfortunately, in this situation, mr. johnson targeted officers and killed an injured people. >> and do you have a personal concern, sir, that an incident like this that is so shaken the police officers in dallas county and in the city of dallas could actually worsen the relationship between police officers and the community? are you concerned about that? >> well, that can happen. but, you know, mr. johnson chose his path and he chose his actions. now we get to choose ours. the leadership is calling for unity and calling for -- what

i'm asking is that our fellow man, we would look, try to look at life through the eyes of someone who is not like us. if you're white, try to understand what it's like to tell your children there is a different set of rules for your middle school children as they grow up than for your neighbors'. if you're not the family of a first responder, try to imagine what it's like when you send your loved one away to work and wonder if they're going to come home. and if we can look at the world through the lenses of others, i think that the result of this can be more unity and bring us closer together. we cannot let an act of hate tear us further apart. >> i think no truer words. those are very poignant words, and hopefully will take that very sage advice. dallas county judge clay jenkins. thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you, sir. protesters still taking place across the country tonight. the pictures you're looking at now are out of atlanta, where

hundred, if not thousands of demonstrators have taken to the streets. now it remains a peaceful protest, much like the scene we saw in dallas last night before tragedy struck. joining us now is kelp ian nixon who attended yesterday's rally with his son. do we have kellian nixon? >> hello? >> as we continue to look at those protest pictures from atlanta, georgia. some of the protests taking place across the country. we're trying to get kellian nixon on the line. as you can see, what happened in dallas certainly hasn't stopped americans from coming out in these outpours of grief. i think it's fair to say that people are mixing their grief about the deaths in baton rouge, louisiana, and in minnesota with sorrow for the family of those officers in dallas. we have kellian nixon on the line now. thank you so much for joining us.

i appreciate you being here. >> it's kellan. >> kellan. i'm sorry. i mispronounced your name. >> that's all right. >> talk about how the protest was going before this happened, why you came to protest and what was happening before those shootings erupted? >> well, i came to protest because i wanted to have a voice amongst those who couldn't speak for themselves, for those who passed recently. as far as the march and the rally, it was peaceful, very peaceful. again, i say the people were peaceful. the police officers were peaceful. and up until the end. and i hated for it to end in that manner, because that was not what it was supposed to be. >> and if you could, you know, and i know this has been a really horrific experience for you sort of describe what unfolded, what you saw last night as that horror broke out. >> well, i -- luckily, i believe by the grace of god, i decided to leave just a few seconds early. maybe about 45 seconds, a minute early. and as i was crossing the street

to leave, the shots began to rang out. i saw exactly what you described. i saw horror. i saw people running. i saw police just as afraid as any protester or any rallier was. we were all afraid. we were all trying to live. that's what i saw. i heard shots. i didn't see a shooter. and i just saw mayhem. >> and did you have the sense, as you said seeing this mayhem take place, that there was any particular target? did you feel that in a sense everyone there was a target, that the protesters themselves also could be targets of those gunshots? >> to be honest with you, i didn't have time to think of that.

i had just the time to think about protecting my son's life and my own life. and to be honest, i feel ashamed now that that was all i could, doing all i could think about. but, you know, in times like that, that's your first instinct. >> yeah, no kellon, as a dad, i think you did exactly the right thing. i want to ask you about some of the commentary we heard. thankfully not most of the commentary, but some of it has tried to vilify the black lives movement writ large for what happened, even though as you said, you were in the crowd. the people who were protesting and marching were just as much at risk of that shooter as the ultimate targets of police. what do you say to people who try to blame black lives matter as a movement for this antagonism toward police? >> i say that that's a blatant lie. i hate the fact that any individual that was a part of the organization of this event last night would ever be considered a part of what took place last night. what really took place last

night is what has been taking place across america forever, and that's hatred. you know, it wasn't black lives matter. it wasn't police. it wasn't any of those things. it was pure hatred. and until we resolve our hate issue, then we'll continue to see these things. >> and you talked about bringing your son to that protest. can you tell us what message were you hoping to convey to your little boy by bringing him to that protest. to you what is the point of these marches. >> to me, the point is to shed light and darkness. you know, we're the light of the world. we're the salt of the earth. stand up for me, son. we're the salt of the earth. and if the we don't expose the light, then it will only get darker. then it will only become more dim. so i wanted him to see that he can have an impact and that he can have a voice. >> yeah, well, i think that you did that, sir. and i'm glad that you and your son were safe. kellon nixon, thank you so much for joining us. >> can i say one thing? >> hey katelyn, hey judah, hey mercy, i couldn't get out of here without saying hi to my children and life. thank you guys for allowing me to be on here. and i just want the say this last thing.

a lot of people want me to hate. a lot of people want me to come on and hate and say kill, kill, kill. i've been getting these messages on social media. but i just want to continue to spread the message of love. i want to continue to tell us to love one another, to love the neighbors and yourself, to love on the traffic, to love on your job, on social media, everywhere you can. we've got to make our love louder than their hate. and that's the only way we're going to have any kind of change. and i thank you guys for having me on. >> thank you so much. i'm so glad you were here. you're a good dad and a good guy. i appreciate it. >> thanks. >> we're keeping an eye on some of the massive protests happening around the country tonight. and we'll also head back to dallas to speak to one of the dallas to speak to one of the organizers of yesterday's rally. ♪ using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the framework... wire... and plants

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a lot has happened in the almost 24 hours since the shooting in dallas, texas, last night. but it is worth keeping in mind

what the mood was like in dallas before those shots rang out, before at least one shooter took the lives of five officers and injured seven more. with 800 bystanders scrambling for cover. the reason they were there because of events that took place hundreds of miles away. the death of 37-year-old alton sterling in baton rouge, louisiana, shot multiple times by a police officer while he was held to the ground, and the justice department and the fbi have opened an investigation into his death. and today the mother of sterling's son put out a statement in support of the families in the victims in the dallas shooting. responding to violence is violence is not the answer. the other event that brought 800 people to downtown dallas last night is what took place the night after sterling's death in falcon height, minnesota. philando castile's final moments, a police officer pointing a gun at him as he lay bleeding in the front seat of his girlfriend's car were captured and streamed live on facebook by girlfriend diamond reynolds. hundreds of protesters converged outside the governor's residence in st. paul last night, where they remained until early this morning. it's unclear at this time

whether the justice department will open an investigation into his death as well. but as those two deaths, the deaths of alton sterling and philando castile on top of months, decades of shooting deaths of people of color at the hands of police officers is what led to the peaceful demonstrations last night in dallas. 800 men, women, and children, activists alike chanting, enough is enough, no justice no peace, and black lives matter. but the rally, while tense, like those that took place all over the country last night, were peaceful throughout. by all accounts, police were on hand in dallas not to antagonize, but to protect the protesters as they walked with them, even stopping to take pictures with them at times. that was the scene in dallas last night, protest and peaceful, until approximately 8:58 p.m. when shots rang out. now to say what took place next was precisely the opposite of the theme of the rally in march is a huge understatement.

but that has not stopped people from taking to the streets again tonight. thousands gathered in atlanta, georgia, centennial park, they also marched through downtown atlanta, blocking traffic. they marched in new york's union square and in philadelphia and in baltimore. the rallies continue. joining me now is dominique alexander, the president and founder of next generation action network, one of the organizers of yesterday's protest. mr. alexander, thank you so much for being with me. >> thank you for having me. >> let's start by talking about the purpose of the protests that you organized. what was it? >> well, the purpose of the protest was, i was traveling to baton rouge, louisiana, and met with the family of alton sterling, and we organized this protest because we know that in the city of dallas, we have some alton sterlings, we have clinton allen, jason harrison, and many cases here in the city of dallas, there's not been an officer indicted in over 40 years in an officer-fatal shooting.

so we have these types of cases. we have them in oklahoma city, with charles petit jr, we have many cases in these instances, and we wanted to come out and stand up and fight for justice and then while we was planning this, in the last few hours, we hear of the death of philando castile. so we are -- people are tired and enough is enough. we wanted to come out to say and stand with the united states that were outraged with these shootings of young black men being shot and set in a pool of their blood. >> just trying to piece together, obviously everyone is going back and trying to piece together how it was possible for the shooter to take a sniper position and be in such a position to commit such lethal acts. did you file a parade route with the city? was it known what the route was going to be?

>> no, we never had any route or anything of that nature. it was clear once we left belo park, we just took a route. there were many officers inside of the crowd that was not dressed up. a lot of officers from dignitary protection that were navigating us through the crowd and different things of that nature. so there was no route given to the dallas police department. there was no route that we had planned. we were pretty much just going however the energy of the crowd was going, and prior to the shooting, we were two blocks from basically ending the actual protest. we were on our way back to the park, in which we started at. >> how did you publicize the march? how would people have found out where to meet you to be a part of what you were doing? >> well, we did it on social media.

if you go on social media, justice for #alton sterling, #philando castile, you'll see that over 1,500 people was able to come out last night. that's how we got our word out. we got our word out through local media. we got our word out through local radio. in many instances, we have built a strong coalition with our media to address these issues and put these situations when we're trying to galvanize people to fight for justice. >> it does seem that there was a tremendous amount of coordination, between the organization, between the protest organizers and not just the dallas city police, but also dart, who also lost an officer to the sniper attack. would you say the coordination was good with the police, because they seem to also be mixed in, in a lot of cases with the crowd. >> correct. if anybody is trying to make the fact be that we were not in correlation, or we were not talking with the dallas police

department, we talked with them many times. the only thing that was not discussed was a route prior to. there is no one's fault on this incidence. it was clearly unexpected and shocked us all. a lot of these officers that died last night, we do many protests inside of downtown dallas. so the same officers come out and many of those officers we have saw time and time and time again, as we come down here in protest in the city of dallas. so, you know, we -- we definitely stay in prayer for their family and all of the victims that have lost their lives to violence across america in this past week. >> i want to give you an opportunity to talk about to some of the people who have criticize the rallies and tried to blame organizations like yours for violence against police. i want you to listen to texas

governor dan patrick -- lieutenant governor dan patrick and the former mayor of new york city. take a listen. they were on the air today. >> all those protesters last night, they ran the other way, expecting the men and women in blue to turn around and protect them. what hypocrites. i do blame former black lives matter protests. last night was peaceful, but others have not been. >> the reason that there's a target on police officers' backs is because of groups like black lives matter. they make it seem like all police are against blacks. they're not. they're the ones saving black lives. black lives matter is not saving any black lives. it's the police officers who are doing it. >> i have my own feelings about those two sound bites that you just heard, but i want to give you an opportunity to respond. >> those type of ignorant statements, and their magnitude, is the reason why we have the rhetoric that we have, and why

we have so much hate. that's only feeding into the problem which everybody is protesting about. that's not going to bring -- if they feel like the black lives matter movement and the next generation action network and many of the peaceful organizations that's addressing police brutality condone violence in any kind of way, we came out here to address of issue of police brutality, we came out here to address the issue of hate, not to afflict hate in any kind of magnitude to anybody. that's the -- that's the problem that we have in america. is that our elected officials want to play the tit for tat game. and our local chief and our local mayor let it be known that we have had peaceful protesting prior to this. this has never happened in any kind of way. and let it be known that this guy had nothing to do with the organizations that organized this protest. and we do not condone violence in any kind of way. but we will say this. until the issue is addressed

with police brutality and the issue of poverty is addressed, we will have situations. the sad part about it, we will have situations in this magnitude, and that's the truth, and that we need to allow -- petition our local elected officials to address these issues and not keep going back with the political talk. there is a problem in america when it comes to police brutality, and there is a problem when it comes to gun violence. and that didn't start yesterday. that started years before my life. so this is not a new subject. this might came out -- been the same problem when lieutenant dan patrick was born. this is not a new issue. and they need to stop the rhetoric. and continuing the rhetoric. for him to come down here in dallas and put that rhetoric in the city, where this city is

trying to stand together, it's a problem. it's a very well problem while we have in texas, it's a very wide problem in texas and for sandra bland when he allowed his department to justify her murder down here in that jailhouse in waller county. this is the problem that we have in america and that's why we were protesting yesterday, and because of the rhetoric from our officials in that capacity. >> yes, well said dominique alexander, president and founder of next generation action network and one of the organizers of yesterday's march in dallas. thanks so much for joining us. >> thank you. >> thank you. still ahead, a look inside the dallas police department, a department that has made major strides in recent years in its policing. we'll be right back. i hear you. to everyone with this pain that makes ordinary tasks extraordinarily painful, i hear you. make sure your doctor hears you too! i hear you because i was there when my dad suffered with diabetic nerve pain. if you have diabetes and burning, shooting pain

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in november 1963, it was a sniper's bullet that struck president john f. kennedy as his motorcade traveled through the streets of downtown dallas. >> president kennedy has been given a blood transfusion at parkland hospital in dallas, in an effort to save his life, after he and governor connelly of texas were shot in an assassination attempt in downtown dallas. >> once again parkland hospital and the city of dallas as a whole have witnessed a national tragedy. in the early morning hours dallas police officers lined up in formation offering a silent salute to the bodies of their fallen colleagues, colleagues whose lives had also been cut short by a sniper's bullet just blocks from dealey plaza where president kennedy had been gunned down five decades earlier.

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his name, david, shot and killed an innocent bystander, driving in a suburb of dallas, he shot him more than a dozen times. but it didn't stop there. >> well, officer craig shaw was answering a disturbance call yesterday evening at the river bed apartments when gunfire rang out. he was killed and so was another man, along with the son of dallas police chief david brown. rebecca lopez has exclusive details on who police believe shot the officer. >> news 8 has learned that chief david brown's son is to believed to be the shooter that killed a lancaster police officer. sources tell us brown's son is also believed to have killed another man before he shot and killed the officer. >> when police officer craig shaw arrived on the scene to respond to the shooting, david brown shot and killed him too. shaw was the first police officer killed in the suburb of lancaster, killed by the dallas police chief's son. it was a horrible tragedy for chief brown on so many levels

and it happened just weeks after he got the job. after taking some time off to mourn his son's death, he addressed his 3,600-member department, saying, quote, the past few days have been very troubling and emotional for all of us. my family has not only lost a son, but a fellow police officer and a private citizen lost their lives at the hands of our son. that hurts so deeply i cannot adequately express the sadness i feel inside my heart. that was june of 2010. but that was not the first time chief brown was touched first hand by violence. more than 20 years earlier, in 1988, he responded to an officer-involved shooting in a suburb of dallas. upon arriving on the scene, he immediately recognized a pair of eyeglasses on the ground. they were the same ones that were worn by his former police academy classmate and partner. his partner later died in the hospital. brown said, quote, i really relate to all of those in the line of duty deaths on a much more personal level. you lose a partner, you just never get over it. that was august of 1988.

three years after that, his younger brother was killed in the phoenix area by drug dealers. that was 1991. david brown is a police chief who has been through a lot of strife and violence in his life. he's experienced first hand on a personal level and yesterday he had to face it again in his own city. the dallas police department under chief david brown has embraced reform, put an emphasis on community policing. they're trained in de-escalation. back in 2013, chief brown began reviewing his department's policies after a grand jury cleared a dallas police officer in a fatal shooting of an unarmed man. he said he wanted to make changes voluntarily to make things better. he wrote an op-ed in the wake of the unrest in ferguson, missouri. he wrote how he believed in transparency. his department and tracked and

publicized its officer involved shootings and they've seen their arrests go down. they've seen their excessive force complaints go down. between 2009 and 2014, excessive force complaints dropped by 64%. they've seen a decline in shootings. the murder rate has gone down. they've really reformed themselves. and while they've improved a lot, they still have a higher per capita rate of police-involved shootings than houston or atlanta. they were the ones who tweeted out a photo of the wrong man, calling him a suspect, a photo which i'm not going to show you. officers were quick to make statements in the heat of the moment that later did not pan out. but overall dallas has been pretty widely praised for their performance. they're a textbook example of the kind of change we all want and need to see in policing, perhaps because they're led by a man who understands loss in the same way that many of the cities citizens whom he and his department protect and serve understand it. joining me now, founder and president of the center of policing equity at jon jay college, college of criminal justice. mr. goff, thank you for being

here. i want to talk to you, first of all, dallas has really tried to be aggressive about changing the policing culture, and perhaps because of who the chief is, his only personal experience with loss. what is the right way to reform a police department that's lost trust with its citizens? >> so the right way to reform any police department is to think about this inter-generationally. we were talking just before we went on about how if you start the process and you're working against a culture, there are people there who say, i've seen chiefs come and go. the average career span for a chief, particularly in a major city, is about three years. so they will wait you out. they'll sit in the precinct. you can't just say, well, my tenure, for however long it's going to be, i'm going to do everything.

you have to start creating structures that will last inter- generationally. and you begin at the speed and with the power of trust. >> so if you're a police chief coming into a situation like this, there was a turnover in sanford, florida, after the trayvon martin case, you've seen these turnovers, including ferguson, missouri, with a new chief. you're coming in and that's the culture. the lieutenants say we'll just wait you out. are there things a chief can do, despite the culture and the strong police union contracts that give them tremendous rights over the average citizen. are there tremendous things the police chief can do to change the mentality of the lieutenants? >> so changing mentality is frequently the first instinct and it's often the first mistake. right? they go in and they say, i'm going to change the way that you think about keeping yourself safe. that never really works out well. what you can do is change the accountability structures. so what you've seen is many chiefs walk in and the first thing they do is say, let's find the right people to be in my

corner, in my cadre, and let's find the right people to be let go. they don't need to be part of this department. but here's the extra tricky thing. you talked about collective bargaining agreements and what the union has power to do, that's been up because campaign zero has been spreading the word. but beyond that, right, you've got civilian oversight that sometimes understands and sometimes doesn't, but you can fire a bunch of people for doing terrible things and they get reinstated. what kind of power do you have over an organization when you can't choose your own staff and you can't fire people for cause? >> there's this underlying sort of theme, particularly the minnesota shooting, of fear. of police officer fear. you talk about how can you train people to be not afraid? can you train people if they are afraid of a type of person, if they're afraid of african americans, if they have a fear response when they see a black motorist? is there any training in the world that can change that? >> yes, but i don't think that can be our focus. it's possible, but it's very difficult, it's incredibly intensive, and i think we should be caring a lot less about hearts and minds. so in the last several days we've been seeing in the same way that we've worked and you've done wonderful work to humanize the lives people who have been tragically struck down this.

we've been seeing some of the humanization of police chiefs. i've worked with police chiefs trying to do the right thing. >> yep. >> you can do all of that, but it's not just about that last second decision. in fact, almost every last-second decision is a result of several tactical decisions that you've learned and been trained on. >> yeah. >> and it's those mistakes, if i'm reaching into the car after you, i've already made about ten tactical mistakes that are deliberative that you can manage. so if i have a fear of black people, that's not affecting me when i'm a mile back, 20 feet away and you've just stopped your car. we shouldn't reduce it to the life or death five-second or half second decisions because that's not the full reality of a law enforcement contact. >> got to start with the accountability. wish we had more time. we'll bring you back and talk do you about this more. appreciate it. philip goff, thank you so much. still ahead, the shootings this week, one after another, have spurred protests, but will they lead to action in washington. our next guest is one of the few people who might be able to get something done on that issue. stay with us. it's the little things in life that make me smile. spending the day with my niece. i don't use super poligrip for hold,

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today the white house announced president obama will cut short his european trip to return home sunday night. one day earlier than planned. president obama will also travel to dallas early next week. the news comes as the president has already been forced to address tragic events back home twice within the space of 18 hours. upon arrival in warsaw last night, he spoke about the deadly police shootings that took the lives of alton sterling and philando castile. this morning, he paid tribute to the police officers who lost

their lives in dallas. he followed that with a call to action on gun control. >> there's no possible justification for these kinds of attacks, or any violence against law enforcement. today is a wrenching reminder of the sacrifices they make for us. we also know that when people are armed with powerful weapons, unfortunately it makes attacks like these more deadly and more tragic and in the days ahead we're going to have to consider those realities as well. >> the 2016 presidential candidates all weighed in today in an online video, donald trump said the video in dallas had shaken the soul of our nation, while in philadelphia hillary clinton you remembered all sides to come together after the combined tragic events of the past 72 hours. >> we do need police and criminal justice reforms to save lives and make sure all americans are treated equally in rights and dignity. we do need to support police departments and stand up for the

men and women who put their lives on the line every day to protect us. and we do need to reduce gun violence. we may disagree about how to do all these things, but surely we can all agree with those basic premises. surely this week showed us how true they are. >> joining us now, connecticut senator chris murphy, who previously represented newtown as a congressman and staged a 15-hour filibuster on the senate floor last month on to raise awareness about gun violence. thank you for being here. we've had the newtown horror, the charleston massacre, victims being young teenagers as club goers. now that we've added police officers to that ghastly cad ray cadre of victims, do you think

your colleagues will now have a conversation with you about gun reform? >> call me skeptical. we had 20 first graders dead on the floor of their classroom in newtown, connecticut. and that didn't move congress to action. we had young men and women going out for a night of dancing gunned down because of their sexual orientation and that didn't move congress to action. we've had horror after horror, the streets of chicago littered with dead bodies over the course of memorial day weekend. we now have the intersection of terrorism and guns, knowing that isis is actively recruiting lone wolf attackers in the united states to go to gun shows and buy assault weapons to be turned on civilians. i'm not sure that it can get any worse. this is horrible. this is horrific, these brave police officers being gunned down by a sniper. but if america hasn't moved congress to action already, i guess i'm skeptical that this is going to do the job. the nra right now effectively owns -- has the representatives and a significant degree of the united states senate.

and until the american public clears some of those people out that aren't voting with their constituents and listen to the gun lobby instead, it's going to be hard to get change. >> you know, i'm not sure there has ever been a poll of individual police chiefs around the country. but you talk with individual chiefs and people in law enforcement. and one of the things they are very wary about is open carry. as was the case in dallas, it makes their job harder when they see somebody brandishing a weapon, and they're not sure if that person is a suspect or if they are just somebody exercising their right to hold a gun. it is possible that police chiefs might be enlisted as allies for the democrats who want to see some reform? >> well, remember, when we announced the reintroduction of the assault weapons ban in 2013 right after sandy hook, there were police chiefs and police officers standing with us. and i remember a chilling

conversation on the day of the shooting in sandy hook in which a police officer was talking about frankly how fortunate he was that the shooter matt lanza killed himself because they worried about being overpowered by the kind of weaponry he had in that school. for a long time police officers and police chiefs have been supportive of a lot of the measures that we have been pushing. they have not been absent in this fight. they've been very present. maybe they'll step up their advocacy. but we have been losing these fights over background checks and assault weapons bans because police officers haven't been speaking up. they've been speaking up. and even with them by our side, we still haven't been able to beat the gun lobby in congress.

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his anger of killing of black men by police. and while no sane person can relate to what he did, the underlying anger is something every black person in america understands and feels, and has spent the last 72 hours feeling as you watch black body after black body lying on the ground, covered in blood in ferguson, or shot down in a walmart in ohio, or killed as police chump out of a car while a child is playing with a toy gun in cleveland, or choked to death in staten island, or tossed into the back of a van like trash in baltimore, or dead amid scattered cds he was selling in baton rouge, or covered in blood in the passenger seat of his girlfriend's car in minnesota. seeing that year after year, decade after decade in your community and your country is bad enough. in recent years, you also get to consume it on your social media, on your phone, on your twitter feed, on facebook. and over the past week, black americans have is added learn how to use facebook live to their ever growing list of

strategies, not to make sure you survive a traffic stop, but just to ensure that your death will be documented correctly. the list now includes make sure your loved ones can close your facebook page so it can't be mined for the media to use to be mined as a menace. and have pictures of you and your loved one posted and available to combat the inevitable attempt to paint you as a thug ready to die. be ready to record the entire encounter with police on your phone and know how to update it somewhere quickly. those methods now have to be learn and paired with the classics like don't move, be exceedingly politic, follow instructions so that hopefully they won't kill you. and above all, understand that sometimes, as in the case of philando castile, even doing all three won't keep you alive. and then at the same time, police have also been victimized in the last 24 hours. five officers murdered. last night innocent lives taken for no good reason.

you have to wonder how do police officer, some of whom have their own psychological baggage, maybe fear of black people or distrust or alienation from the communities they serve police a community that fears and distrusts them? how do you go about conducting that next traffic stop with that fear in your head and in your heart, armed with the knowledge that the person in that car is likely just as terrified and maybe even angry at you? what is it like, what is going to be like on either end of that job, especially in the wake of the shooting in dallas? all of this is hard enough for adults to reconcile. but what about kids? what happens to the psychological makeup of that 15-year-old boy, crying for his daddy live on tv. the children of alton sterling and philando castile and sergeant michael smith. these kids have been irrevocably derailed and now face a lifetime of trauma, a lifetime of fear, a lifetime of emotional damage that does not go away. how do they recover from that? how do any of us?

i want to read something tonight that i read on redstate.com. this is from leon wolf, conservative writer. quote, people's willingness to act rationally and within the confines of the law and the political system is generally speaking directly proportional to their belief that the law and political system will ever punish wrongdoing. and right now that belief is largely broken, especially in many minority communities. and it's the blind uncritical belief that the police never or only in freak circumstances do anything wrong that is a major contributing factor to that. if you grew up consuming that and living that reality year after year and imbibing a paralyzing fear of police, and you chase that with a sense of total futility as each of these killings result in no explanation, no prosecution, no consequences for the officer, no matter what the circumstances, when that is your every day, there has to be a psychological impact.

i mean it even affects reporters who cover these cases death after death after death. i know it's affected me. that does it for me tonight. rachel will be back monday. and i will see you in the morning as we continue this conversation on my show a.m. joy. good morning, everyone. i'm alex whitt here in new york at msnbc world headquarters. 7:00 a.m. in the east, 4:00 a.m. out west. new details about the man who killed five in a sniper style attack. micah xavier johnson, an army reservist. johnson was killed when police sent in an explosives-bearing robot after hours of negotiations. he had no criminal record. he had been stockpiling weapons and bomb-making materials inside his home. meanwhile, the families of