there's been an incredible drop in violent crime. so, that doesn't lessen i think people's understandable fears if they see a video clip of somebody getting killed. but it is important to keep in perspective. that in places like new york or los angeles, or dallas, you've seen huge drops in the murder rates. that's aand that's a testimony smarter policing and there are a range of other factors that have contributed to that. so that should not, we should never been sats sats fied when any innocent person is being killed, but that should not be something that is driving our anxieties relative to where we've been in the past.

and with respect to finally the issue of police shootings, there's no doubt that the visual records that we're see iing hav elevated people's consciousness about that. but as i've said before, for african-americans or latinos, in the pre smart phone age, i don't think that people -- were not aware of the fact that there is evidence of racial bias in our criminal justice system. it's been well documented. and it's been experienced.

and even before i got to the u.s. senate, when i was in the state senate the illinois, i passed legislation to try to reduce the incidence of racial profiling by collecting data and that was prompted by evidence that it was taken place in certain parts of the state. and the fact that we're awir of it may increase anxiety and hurt and anger, but it's been said sunshine's the best disinfect t disinfectant. by seeing it, by people feeling a sense of urgency about it, but the larger american community, realizing that gosh, maybe this is a problem and we've seen even some very conservative commentators begin to acknowledge this is something maybe we need to work on. that promises the possibility of

actually getting it done. so, it hurts. but if we don't diagnosis this, we can't fix it. eye shah, reuters. >> thank you, mr. president. as you come to the end of your term, there's a lot of talk about your legacy. i know you may like to leave that to the historians -- >> i do. >> but when you look back on your presidency and consider race relations, what do you hope your legacy will be? how do you think the shootings in dallas and the high profile shootings by police and other events will shape the way your presidency is remembered? is. >> i do want to leave legacy questions to the history books. but what i can do maybe this is a fair response to your

question, is to say how i've tried to lead the country on this issue. more than anything, what i hope is that -- that my voice has tried to get all of us as americans to understand the difficult legacy of race. to encourage people to listen to each other. to recognize that you know, the legacy of slavery and jim crow and discrimination didn't suddenly vanish with the passage of the civil rights act of the voting rights act or the election of barack obama. that things have gotten better. substantially better. but that we've still got a lot

more work to do. and that as was the case with the police task force, that we set up, that i tried to encourage people to come up with practical, concrete solutions that can reduce if not eliminate, the problems of racial bias. and if my voice has been true, and positive, then my hope would be that it may not fix everything right away, but it surfaces problems, it frames them. it allows us to wrestle with these issues and try to come up with practical solutions and that perspective may lead to continued improvement. so that not just malia and

sasha, but their children, can experience a country that is more just. and more united and more equal. and that's not going happen right away. and that's okay. we plant seeds. somebody else may be sits under the shade of the tree that we planted. and i -- i'd like to think as best as i could, i have been true. in speaking about these issues. justin sing. >> thanks, mr. president. they've stressed that the uk has to have access to an open market. must continue to respect the freedom of migration for workers.

someone who's repeatedly advocated for globalization and extolled the virtues of negotiation, what specific assurances did you give during the summit from other leaders that make yu confident that currency markets are wrong and the political turmoil in britain and the subsequent effort to leave the eu will go smoothly and both un and secretary kerry have used if to describe brexit. wondering if you see any way for the british people to put the tooth paste back in the tube on this issue. >> i think we have to assume that a referendum having been passed with a lot of attention, a lengthy campaign and relatively high participation rates, is going to stick. and that the incoming government, a conservative government, is going to invoke

article 50 and begin the process of negotiations. how that process unfolds, how the negotiations work, i think is going to be up to the parties involved. the main message i've had here is we are close friends, alliea, commercial partners with the u kurks and with the eu. we will remain close friends, allies, partners, continue to have strong relationships on both sides of the channel. our primary interest is to make sure that the negotiations and this process are as orderly and as sensible as possible. recognizing that it is in the interests of both sides to get it right. they are major trading partners.

that's where goods get sent. back and forth. >> and it's important that neither side harden positions in ways that ultimately do damage to their respective economies and ultimately, to the world economy at a time when you know, our world economy is still pretty wobbly in places. i want to make a further point. i'm not sure it's accurate to say that i am a huge booster of globalization. what is accurate to say is that b i believe the process of globalization is here to stay. as a consequence of technology. and the mobility of capital and

cargo containerships and global supply chains. and conceivably, we could run back the tape to 50 years ago and see whether we could rearrange some of that process, but it's happening. it's here. and we see it ef day. in our lives. everybody who's got a smart phone in their pocket is seeing it. and my argument has been that there are enormous benefits to be gained from that global integration. just as there are enormous benefits to be gained from european integration. so long as we recognize that with that integration, there is the danger of increased inequality. of workers having less leverage and capital having more leverage.

that it threatens to leave people behind. and if we don't take steps to make sure everybody can participate in that global integration, making sure that wages are high enough, making sure that we rebuild the social compact so that pensions and health care are taken care of. making sure that communities are not completely abandoned when a factory leaves and there's a economic plan for transition. if we don't do that effectively, then there's going to be a backlash. with respect to immigration, it is america's experience that immigration has been by far a

net plus for our economic growth. our culture. our way of life. now, in america, that's by necessity. because unless you're a native american, you came from, everybody came from some place else. europe may not have as many of those traditions. keep many mind, one of the huge macro economic advantages that america has is we're still a relatively young country, our birthrate is not dropping off like europe's is or russia's is or china's or japan's. and that's as a consequence of immigration and it's economics 101 that if you've got a younger population, your growth rate is going to be higher. they're looking to build a b

better life, otherwise they wouldn't move from where they are. that's been part of our tradition and society. huge influxes of the sort we've seen in europe, that's always going to be a shock to the system. i think it is entirely appropriate for europe even as generous as it has been and i think chancellor merkel deserves enormous credit and other european leaders who have taken in you know, the these guy mooi grant populations deserve enormous credit. it's a strain on the budget, politics and on culture. it's legitimate to say we've got to slow this thing down and manage it properly. that's why we're setting up a un conference on refugees on the margins of the united nations general assembly because a few countries shouldn't be shouldering the burden for 60 million refugees.

we've got to come up with strategies to allow people in countries that are very poor or are in the middle of a war zone. otherwise, the world has strank and they're going to want to move. that's not going to go away anytime soon. it's one more reason why given the fact that the global integration, we have to think globally. more broadly. our economies are all going to depend on the institutional arrangements that we have across boundaries. nato's an example of really enduring multilateral institution that help us get through some very difficult

times, but even the best of institutions have to be adopted. adapted to new circumstances. that's true for organizations like nato. it's true for organizations like the un, it's true for organizations like the eu. it's true for all the architecture that has helped the world and countries improve their standard of living and reduce over all violence between states substantially over the last several decades. mark lander. >> thaun very much, mr. president. you've been scrupulous about saying you would not comment on the justice department investigation of hillary clinton's e-mail. that investigation is now

closed. and i hope that i could can you about some of the comments that fbi director comey made a few days ago. as you know -- >> you may, mark, but i want to you make sure you're not wasting your question. i'm going to continue to be scrupulous because i think drek comey could not have been more exhaustive. while we were flying, he was presenting the congress for hours on end. but, i just want to give you a chance just in case you didn't want to burn your question. >> i actually have a back up. maybe i could cut to the chase and ask you about a broader question. let's leave aside mrs. clinton for the moment. he did talk at the end of thiz presentation about how he feared that there was a broader cultural issue in the state department toward the handling of classified information that troubled him and i wondered whether you since you rely on the state department to conduct your foreign policy, whether that concerns you as well.

and if i may, could i ask the other question? because i think it might get a interesting response. you last may passed a milestone in that you are now were president longer when the country was at war than your predecessor, george w. bush and if you complete your presidency as you will with troops in afghanistan, syria and iraq, you will be the only two-term president in history served with the country war and i wonder given the way you ran for office, how you feel about that reality and then a second follow up on that. shouldn't the american people simply resign themselves to living in the state of perpetual war even if that war is not the all out war we think of in the 20th century. >> that was an interesting question. so, first of all, with respect to the state department, i am concerned.

and the challenge that we've got is primarily driven by the changing nature of how information flows. look, the advent of e-mail and texts and smart phones is just generating enormous amounts of data. now, it is hugely convenient. it meeps that in real time, i'm getting information that some of my predecessors might not have gotten for weeks. but what it also is doipg is creating this massive influx of information on a daily basis. putting performance pressure on

the department to sort through it, classify it properly. figure out what are the various points of entry because of the cyber attack risks that these systems have. knowing that our adversaries are constantly trying to hack into these various systems. if you overclassify, then all the advantages of this new information suddenly go away because it's taken too long to process. and so, we've been trying to think about this in a smart way and i think secretary kerry's got a range of initiatives to try to get our arms around this. it reflects a larger problem in government. we just recently for example, i just recently signed a bill about freedom of information act

requests that built on a number of reforms that we've put in place. we're processing more freedom of information act requests and doing so faster than ever before. the problem is the volume of requests has skyrocketed. the volume of information that answers the requests has multiplied exponentially. so, across government you're seeing this problem. and it's a problem in terms of domestic affairs. it becomes a bigger problem when talking about national security issues, so it is something we're going to have to take care of. with respect to reflections on war, when i came into office, we had 180,000 troops in iraq and afghanistan. today, we have a fraction of that.

they are not involved in active combat situations, but are involved in training advise and assist. other than the direct attacks that we launch against isil in conjunction with iraq government and the syrian government. so in some way, i think you'd recognize that our military operations today in iraq and afghanistan are fundamentally different than the wars we were engaged nen n when i came into office. i think you are making an important point. which is when we are dealing with nonstate actors, and those nonstate actors are located in

countries with limited capacity, our ultimate goal is to partner with those countries so that they can secure their borders and themselves eliminate these terrorist threats. but as we've seen, that takes time. the afghans are fighting. they are much more capable now than they were when i came into office. but they still need support. because it's really tough territory. and it's a really poor country. with really low literalsy rates and no much ek appearance in thing that is we take for granted like lodgistics. so sh we have an option of going

in taking out al-qaeda, pulling out potentially then saying a country crumble under the strains of continued terrorist activity then going back in. or we can try to maintain a limited partnership that allows them to continue to build their capacity over time. and selectively take our own actions against those organizations we know are trying to attack us for our allies. because they're nonstate actors, it's very hard for us ever to get the satisfaction of mcarthur and the emperor meeting and a

war officially being over. aqi was defeated in the sense that we were able to execute a transition to a democratic elected iraqi government. but for all of our efforts and incredible courage and bravery and sacrifice of our troops, the political structure there was still uneven. you had continued sunni resentments. continued debathification and as a consequence, those vestages of aqi were able to reconstitute themselves, move into syria as syria began to engage in civil war, rebuild and come back in.

some have argued this is the reason we should have never pulled out of iraq or left some larger presence there. of course trk problem was that we didn't have an iraqi government that wanted them. unlike afghanistan where we've been invited. and it's very difficult for us to for me as commander in chief to want to put our troops in a p p precarious situation where they're not protected. so i think what we've been trying to do, what i've been trying to do is to create an architecture, a structure and it's not there yet. that emphasizes partnerships with countries, emphasizes building up fragile states, resolving internal conflicts where ever we can. trying to do as much as we can

through our local partners. preserving the possibility, the necessity to take strikes ourselves against organizations or individuals that we know are trying to kill americans or belgians or french or germans. combine that with much more effective intelligence gathering. but it becomes more of a hybrid approach to national security. and that i do think is probably going to be something that we have to continue to grapple with for years to come. the good news is that there are fewer wars between states than ever before. and almost no wars between great

powers. and that's a great legacy of you know, leaders in the united states, in europe. and asia, after the cold war, or after the end of the world war ii. that built this international architecture. that's worked and we should be proud of that and preserve it. but this different kind of low grade threat, one that's not an exist ten shl threat, but one that can do harm and creates the kind of fear that can krauz division and you know, political reactions. you know, we have to do that better. we have to continually refine it. so, for example, the reason that

i put out our announcement about the civilian casualties resulting from drone attacks. understanding that there are those who dispute the numbers. what i'm trying to do that ther to institutionalize a system where we begin to hold ourselves accountable for this different kind of national security threat. and these different kinds of operations. and it's imperfect, still. but i think we can get there and -- what i can say honestly is whether we're talking about how the nsa operates or how drone strikes operate or how we're partnering with other countries or my guantanamo, but the end of my presidency, or banning torture, by the end of my presidency, i

feel confident that these efforts will be on a firm legal footing more consistent with international law and norms. more reflective of our values and our ethics. but we're going to have more work to do. it's not perfect. and we have to wrestle with these issues all time and as commander in chief of the most powerful military in the world, you know, i spent a lot of time on these issues and i'm not satisfied that we've got it perfect yet. i can say it's better than when i came into office. thank you very much, everybody. thank you, paul. >> and the president there taking an hour to address issues

of global concern and those that are somewhat unique in terms of their depths and roots here in the united states. as he talked about using dallas and baton rouge and minneapolis to discuss our problem with gun violence in this country. i think it spoke to the level of concern on behalf of the president and for those of us in the news media and all around the country, that this was the first question after this notable conference with nato where the president was discussing many things, not the least of which being the united states' commitment to stay in nato and to continue helping to support the security and peace of those in europe. talking about 70th anniversary of this nato group coming up just in next year. he talked about racial tensions and he very wisely observed those will not be eradicated overnight in h country nor else whether around the world, but he said we want to make it more difficult for those who would use violence against one another and citizens in this coup tri to do so, that of course directly

discussing the issue of gun control. let's get now to ron allen. he is joining us from warsaw. he's been following the presidential with this nato summit. the president will be taking off for madrid, spain. shortly. he will not be going to civil because he needs to get to dallas early in this next week. talk about your prer perspective from if hong, wide ranging news conference, ron, and did you also feel as i did, that you could hear a pin drop inside that huge room with hundreds of journalists listening to the president. >> yes, he was very expansive and covered a lot of territory. i think he started out by saying it's been a tough week. referring to the violence in america. i think that set the tone in that he was trying to give perspective on what's happened,

on the fact that there have been terrible things that have happened, but in his view, the country is not as racially polar ooized as some have argued. not as much violence. he talked about how crime rates had dropped in most major cities and he talked about guns again. something some say shouldn't be injected into these discussions following mass shootings. he also tried to talk about constructive things he wanted to do once he goes to dallas an then after. there is this task force on 21st century policing that he's talk ed about a lot of times that has come with recommendation documentations tr police departments around the country, around the idea of community based police iing to try and ea tension between police and some communities that they serve. he also talked about perspective in terms of the perpetrators of these acts. dylann roofs, micah johnsens, that they are not representative of the border communities, black or xhit or muslim community in

the case of the shooter in orlando and san bernardino. again, trying to get the nation to focus on the fact that yes, these are terrible things happening. but i think essentially asking the nation to keep perspective op that these are events that do not say who the entire nation is or what we stand for. and clearly, mr. obama in his final months in office is trying to be as frank as he can. one reporter asked him about his legacy would be in terms of race and so forth and the bottom line answer to the question was that essentially that he wanted to be known, that he spoke what he thought was the truth, that in fact, he does firmly believe there is a legacy of american had haz to deal with. an enduring legacy of race relations that is still a big factor in the way the country

operates. but still some ways to go. and he tried to speak i think as frankly as heblgd about these other incidents. the gun control issue as he put it is going to be something that a lot of people are going to comment on. i believe we have some sound from part of those remark. here's some of what he said about the gun issue in connection with the police shootings and other violence in america. >> part of what's creating tensions between communities and the police is the fact that police have really difficult time in communities where they know guns are everywhere. as i said before, they have a right to come home and now, they have very little margin of error in terms of making decisions. so, if you care about the safety of our police officers, then you can't set aside the gun issue

and pretend that that's irrelevant. >> interesting how he framed the ib of gun violence as a public safety issue and police. now, remember, mr. obama has faced a lot of criticism during his time in office for some krit ibs would say not being supportive of law enforcement. looking back to 2009 and the beer summit, the incident in cambridge, massachusetts, where he came to his friend, professor gates at harvard. mr. obama famously said the police acted stupidly. that's getting back a long ways. the bottom line is that i think what we heard is a frank discussion of how he sees the country now and explaining why he's going back to dallas now. why he's breaking off his trip a day short to try and dreel with these issues, be a part of the solution in dallas and to take

this, these issues further. to try and continue working on what he says is clearly an issue of the divisions and tension between police and certain communities that they serve. >> all right, ron allen there wrapping things up in warsaw, poland. thank you so much. we're going to have more on this in depth news conference with president obama. coming up, i'll be speaking with former new mexico governor and ambassador to the united nations.

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'60s and it's just not true. you're not seeing riots and you're not seeing police going after people who are protesting peacefully. you've seen peaceful protests. an you've seen uniformly police handling those protests with professionalism. >> joining me now bill richardson, a former new mexico governor and former u.s. ambassador to the un -- good to see you. from paris there, but i want to get your reaction to the president's comments today. what did you think, bill? zwl we>> well, i think the pres was right on. he was showing leadership. cutting the trip short to go to dallas. i think the answer here is not necessarily the congress, which

is dysfunctional dealing with issues like this. or even the executive branch. i think what has to happen is i like what hillary clinton said. she said we need to listen to each other. communities and police departments. every community in this country should have a dialogue with their police department about how to prevent this kind of violence, to have community policing, to have better training of law enforcement officers. to do what dallas was doing. dees laization. but you know we have to protect our police officer, but at the same time, african-americans are bearing the dis -- brunt of these tragedies. >> late this week, he'll be convening a series of discussions, meetings and the like to try to look at what can be done to help not only race relation, but the issue of gun violence in this country and

some of the other expansively related things there, but with regard to how the world sees it, you haven't been an ambassador to the united nations. how do you think the leaders around the world and just avrng citizen rs looking at us in light of all these events this week. >> not very well. i'm in paris here. i'm speaking at an iranian resistance conference and ef where i went, i was asked, what is going on in your country. what is happening is too much violence, too many killings. too much of these confrontations. and i think the president's right. i'm glad he's taking leadership, but i think every single community in this country on their own, the leaders of communities and the police department should come together. how can we talk to each other and listen to each other? not going to legislate any changes right now because of our

dysfunctional system. i think there has to be some kind of frameworky each little town, citizen and their police department, find ways to reduce this violence. to understand each other better. >> so, with regard to the election and the campaigns, we have both hillary clinton and donald trump to his knowledge need to stapolice officers. but how do you think the killing of these police officers in dallas in particular, bill, will change the course of the election in terms of how mr. trump and mrs. clinton will have to navigate these issues of race and violence and law enforcement? >> well, it accelerates these issues to the top of the agenda for the presidential race. homeland security issues. issues relating to this violence between police and communities. this is become along with home land security, the number one issue.

i've never said anything positive on your program about donald trump, but so far, he doesn't seem to be trying to get political hay out of it. in fact, he condemned his virginia chairman for saying something that was not very smart. but i liked again, i am supporting hillary clinton, what you said, we have to listen to each other. we have to talk to each other emphasize community policing. protect our police officer, but realize that african-american community is bearing a huge brunt of this and nobody seems to be listening to them. how can we find ways to reduce crime in communities that have a large proportion of many of these inhabitants. more diversity in our law enforcement, but also our citizens need to step up and find ways to prevent this

violence and find ways that innocent victims are not harmed the way they have in the last week. it's been a terrible week and here or overseas, we're not looking too good. >> well, listening to each other, i shall add to that, i always appreciate listening to you. thank you very much for your time and safe travels. community leader, i'll talk with the organizer of thursday's march in kalas with his thoughts on the shootings, the message he still wants to relay to the nation, next. it's the little things in life that make me smile. spending the day with my niece. i don't use super poligrip for hold, because my dentures fit well. before those little pieces would get in between my dentures and my gum and it was uncomfortable. even well fitting dentures let in food particles. just a few dabs of super poligrip free is clinically proven to seal out more food particles so you're more comfortable and confident while you eat. so it's not about keeping my dentures in, it's about keeping the food particles out. try super poligrip free.

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we're learning more about the man who shot and killed five dallas police officers on thursday. micah johnson was accused of sexual harassment in afghanistan in 2014. according to the military lawyer who represented him at the time. the lawyer tells nbc news the allegations led to johnson being discharged early from his deployment. military sources say johnson was not ultimately convicted of any criminal offense and received an honorable discharge from the army in april of last year.

let's bring in robert morris, he was an org nirz of thursday's march in dallas, so, robert, let's talk about all that went down. here we are a couple f days later from this march on thursday. what do you remember most about the events when they spiralled out of control? >> well, there's three words that stand out to me. chaos. panic, confusion. a lot of folks running. sounds of gunfire. multiple sounds of gunfire. sounded like a war sewnful police officers not knowing where it's coming from and division was not knowing where it's coming from, folks running, not knowing where they're running from. >> that must have been terrifying to say the least. one thing that stood out to me was the peaceful nature of this demonstration. the many photos that were taken of police officers walking within the black lives matter movement folks. those from your organization as

well. posing and taking picture rs. talk about the tenor of things before everything went haywire. >> before this, here in dallas, we had a very good a good relat the police department. we've protested many times. every time we've protested, dallas pd have done their jobs. they've been there. they've stood besides us. they've protected us. they've stopped traffic so we can walk and have good flow through the streets. the communication has always been good. i imagine that after this we should still be able to come together because of those good communication s that we've had n the past. i don't think our relationship would be harmed at all. in fact, i think it should be strengthened. >> robert, due to the lengthy nature of the president speaking earlier, we will call that a wrap. thank you so much. the black lives matter movement how will its voice be heard at the political conventi conventions?

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security for the republican convention is being adjusted. cleveland's police chief acknowledged changes in deployment of officers around the city's downtown. the city's head of convention security also said changes in surveillance will be made along with an increase in the use of intelligence. the convention begins in nine days. one week from monday. let's bring in van newkirk. how they'll be heard at the political conventions. van, before we talk about the conventions. look at what we've seen in terms of the extraordinary violence in this country this week. african-american men shot to death by police. two highly publicized incidents. how effective has the black lives matter movement been in bringing attention to police violence against african-americans? >> i think they've been effective. if you look at most of the speeches, president obama's

speech just earlier today, you see there's still the tension and still focus on police violence as an issue. even though one person with a gun tried to take the narrative into his own hands. i think it shows how robust the concern about the police violence and the racialzation of police violence has become among the american populist. >> how much do you attribute that to social media, to the live streaming of facebook, of the extraordinary events there. you know, how much is that responsible for opening everybody's eyes to the situation? >> well, i think video and images have certainly played a part in this, but also i think the stories of people on the ground of black people sharing individual histories of police violence. i think they've actually done a little bit more than some of the videos and images and people are listening, i think, to black people for the first time. >> they are learning, certainly. let's talk about the black lives

matter movement overall. it successfully made the presence known during the primary season. it disrupted appearance of candidates of both parties. as we look at the republican convention in cleveland over a week away, i know you have written donald trump's campaign has to meanted protests from black organizers across the country. how do you think it manifests itself in cleveland? >> donald trump has been protested several times from black lives matter, protesters, and other groups. and i don't think it's unreasonable to suspect they will protest again in cleveland. it's seems that's what happens donald trump anything connected to donald trump. >> and very quickly, philadelphia, what do you expect the following week with the democrats? >> i think we can expect protests. i think we can expect black activists speaking out. i've had people confirm they will be there and speaking on issues of police violence and other issues in our communities

that actually go a little bit broader than police violence. >> all right. van newquirk from "the atlantic." that's a wrap of this hour of "msnbc live coverage." thank you for watching. up next francis rivera about the past of the dallas gunman. ♪ take on the unexpected with a car that could stop for you. nissan safety shield technologies, available in the altima, sentra and maxima. now get 0% apr for up to 72 months, plus $500 bonus cash. ♪

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it's good to be with you. i'm francis rivera. msnbc world headquarters in new york. it's 2:00 here on the east coast. 11:00 a.m. out west. and 1:00 p.m. in dallas. a city still in shock after thursday's tragedy. these police cruisers now ado adorned in flowers as residents pay tribute to the five officers killed and seven others wounded. protests nationwide from phoenix to rochester, new york turned confrontational last night. police in rochester arresting 74 people at a black livesat