>> welcome back. i'm chris jansing. this is continuing coverage of the tragedy here in dallas. right now, dallas police have given the all clear after a tense situation at police head quarters that unfolded tonight. authorities on alert for more than an hour after reports of a suspicious person in their parking garage attached to the building. police moved the media away from the scene as they swept through the garage but after conducting a manual search, they've announced no suspects and no suspicious items have been found. also at this hour, people in dallas are gathering in the park for a memorial to remember the

five police officers killed on thursday. another seven officers were wounded. and tonight, we have learned that at least two of those officers have been released from the hospital. also tonight in washington, d.c., the fallen dallas officers honored at a vigil at the national law enforcement memorial. while elsewhere in the nation, demonstrations against police violence are continuing like this nighttime march in atlanta, georgia. there's another one going on in indianapolis, indiana. and meanwhile, we're learning new details about the dallas shooter micah xavier johnson. we get more now from nbc's gabe gutierrez. >> before he was slaughter five officers and wound seven officers, micah johnson was described as a loner that was facebook reflected interest in the black power movement, investigators said he had grown upset at the black lives matter group. >> there appears to have been

one gunman are no known links to or inspiration from any international terrorist organization. >> reporter: new details about his time as army reservist. a military lawyer who says he represented junz tells nbc news the army prematurely kicked johnson out of afghanistan after he was accused of sexual harassment by a female soldier. the lawyer said the accuser requested a protective order and that johnson get mental help but military sources say despite the allegations an, johnson was not convicted of any criminal offense and received a honorable discharge from the army in april of last year. his lawyer wasn't sure why. but said it could have happened because johnson's service contract expired. now investigators are piecing together johnson's digital trail after finding bomb making materials, ballistic vests and a personal journal of gakt ticks at the home he shared with his mother. in downtown dallas, several city blocks remain shut down as authorities scour the crime scene where a protest turned

into panic. >> i heard six shots. >> damon crenshaw credits officers are helping save his life. >> they're part of the city. nobody wants to see cops die. >> reporter: outside the police department. >> it's tough anytime you lose someone. it's really tough anytime someone is taken from you unexpected. >> reporter: a texas-sized tribute. >> we're all human here. i think that people feel each other's pain. that's what makes you hopeful is that we can move from senlessness absurdity to something that has redemption and hope in it. >> and that was nbc's gabe gutierrez reporting. on thursday night when the shooting began just a block from where i am, there was a rush to escape. but our next guest became an unlikely her row inwhen she ran into a young bhoi had gotten separate from his family. his mother shah takenia taylor had been struck by gunfire and she ordered her four sons to run for safety. all four are safe and sound due in part to angie wisener who

found one of the young boys, rushed him to safety, then took to social meed to let him no everyone was okay. the memo is it still hospitalized recovering after surgery. angie weisner joins me here. how you doing? >> okay. >> it's been a crazy 4 hours i bet. >> yes ma'am. >> are you sleeping, eating. >> yes, i am. kind of worried about the son. i still want to hear from the son to see how he's doing. >> let's talk about what happened that night. explain where you were, what you heard and how you two came to find each other. >> we were pretty up in the little protest on that last little stretch leave willing the courthouse. we came to the brick building, and we just heard a whole bunch of noise and me, my cousin and my cousin and three kids were both. we took off running. as we were running, he ran up behind us. and he was like, ma'am, ma'am, can i stay with you all because i lost my mom.

i don't know where my mom is. i was like okay. so. >> what goes through your mind when a little kid comes up to you and says that. >> okay. like automatically. i have three kids of my own. two boys and one girl and a step son. i'm like, for the kids regardless. so when he said it, i didn't even think about it. i was like okay, come on, yes, come on. so we kept hearing gunshots. we were still trying to run together, you know, and he was like let's go in the hotel. i was like they're not going to let us go in there. we heard more gunshots. we kept run kept running. > excuse me. i mean, he must have been terrified. >> oh, yes. >> there's gunshots and he's not with his mom or his brothers. >> he kept looking back. i was assuming maybe he was looking to see if they were behind him but nobody was back there. >> then what did you take him home? >> no, ma'am. i was like let's try to make it to my truck so you can call. because will he lost his phone. and we used somebody's phone but he couldn't get in touch with

them. i was like maybe we make it to the truck. you can call but we was trying to go to my truck and the police kept turning us away because there was still shooting. we were running, running. and finally we ran past an apartment and the guy was like, bring the kids in. bring the kids in. y'all can come inside my apartment. my girlfriend's apartment. so we went inside of that. and from there, i was trying to get, reach out to his family and he was trying to reach out. had i my family trying to reach out to his family. what he had to do was, he had to download an app i guess he used on his phone. he download it on the guy's phone and it brought up all the information that he needed because his mom wasn't answering the phone. nobody was reaching out to us. >> by then his mom was probably in surgery. >> we didn't know at the time. at the time we were trying to reach out for them, they were putting up missing ads on facebook for him. we didn't know none of this at the time. at the time we didn't know. we didn't even know they were looking for him.

i didn't find out that till friday when i went back and looked on facebook. >> how did you final connect him with his family members. >> he downloaded an app and got in touch with his cousin. his cousin then told him his mom had been shot. and then she came and picked him up. >> so you have heard from his mom on facebook, right? >> she just said that she would really like to meet me and give me a hug. i was like the same. >> you said you're concerned about the boy. >> yeah, because i want to know how he feels because i was telling him i was like, let's just hope and pray she didn't get shot. if she did, maybe it's in the leg. come to find out, it was in the leg. >> you know, the first person that a lot of us saw who actually witnessed was a woman coming out of the hospital whose her sister and said she had been shot in the calf and in fact, had shielded one of her sons, and then i guess they all got separated. >> uh-huh. >> what was the reunion like

when he saw his, was it his cousin? >> well, what he did was he starred walking towards the car. he turned back around and gave me a big lug. they was hollering thank you and i was like you're welcome. and he just left. >> how are you and your kids doing? that's a flout tick experience that you went through? >> my little gir was mad at me. my boys were like. >> why was she fussing at. >> you she was scared that something happened to me while i was here. i was trying to make them understand it was important for me to be at the protest for them and their future. >> why was it important for you? >> knowledge, knowledge. to me it's not about a black and white thing. to me it's about knowledge. >> well, i'm telling you, that kid was lucky he found you, angie wisner. i'm sure it's going to be something when you meet his mom. i know you're looking forward to that. >> i am. >> thank you for taking the time to talk to us. >> you're welcome. >> really appreciate it. >> joining me national reporter tremaine lee at clyde warn park.

a vigil is under way. a little bit of rain hasn't kept the folks from going out there. >> that's right, chris. despite the rain, there are at least a couple hundred people out here arm in arm, some hugging, some praying. ed wid mark community church has had prayer group every month once a month or so. but now it's with a little bit of a heavier heart. one of their members, michael smith, was a police officer killed by micah johnson. he was a 25-year veteran of the force, 55 years old. his wife was a school teacher. over the years, he's been won.awards but also at this church, he patrolled their daycare area during sunday school. a beloved member of their church and the community. earlier, someone took to the stage and asked everyone to think about the moment when they heard about the killing. and they prayed. one man even came up to me wanting to pray with me. folks here are trying to find answers to why, why this kind

you have tragedy would strike not just the city but also so close to home. but it's not just here in this park. it's all across the city. i spent most of the day on the southside of dallas. the historic black community, the heart of the black community there. i went to a community event and asked folks there, how do you wrestle with this idea of supporting on one hand an end to police violence, on the other hand, wrestling with had great grief and how they make since of it all. here's what one man had to say. >> whatcated a micah johnson? >> america. america. staple person that created -- what's the difference? only one went up in a sanctuary in a church. and took out nine people. >> you can see here the mood is

somber. though you don't feel the weight of grief in folks, people are holding hands, praying for some sort of resolution. again, this is something they do every month, but this time, it was special. they asked for folks from other churches, other communities whoever wanted to come and find some peace, some moment of solace. here they're doing it in the rain even as there are so many more questions than answers. and people are wrestling with heady ideas of race and violence. the police as warriors out against their communities or guard yachbz other communities. these are all heavy moments and heavy times and heavy topics but folks here they came to pray. chris? >> and we've seen it so many times before. coming together does help. it gives people strength. it makes them feel they're part of the community again. try main lee, national reporter for msnbc. thank you so much for joining us. i want to bring in two members of the community we were just

talking about, deputy mayor pro tem and dallas city council member eric wilson and council member case i thomas. thank you both for being with us. >> thank you for having us. >> obvious question but i wonder how your communities are doing. how are people holding up? >> well, it's a difficult time. but people dallas is a resilient city and we're very faithful people. we're very committed to believing in the things will get better. so while we're grieving we're grieving not as if there is no hope. the fact that things will get better and it's going to be -- it's going to take time and be a long process. >> eric, what do you think? can you even sort of put into some sort of context what's happened to your city over the last 48 hours? >> the best i can put it is why. i say that because for a while, we have been a model for the nation in terms of community and police relations. so the question is why.

why us why, now? we're not like most cities. we do have a past. but we've gotten better, thanks to our police chief, chief brown and his efforts to have programs like let's talk where we take students, troubled students or just students, period and have a connection, a real heart to heart talk with police in the community. and to understand that from the police side, we want to understand who you are and from the community side we want to understand who the police are. >> did it occur to either of you when this protest was happening and people were coming out that it would be anything but peaceful? >> no. as we've seen, police were a part of the planning and it was an effort. we've seen pictures where police officers and some of the demonstrators were smiling together. and so we had no idea that anything was lurking in that too type of way. >> so what's next? how do you take this and move forward as a community?

>> we'll go back and review our standards and make sure we did everything that we are supposed to do and could have done. but this is not something, again, this was a peaceful protest. we've had hundreds ef peaceful protests, hundreds of protests where nothing happened. this was an act of an individual who was set on doing one thing and he managed to do that create destruction and chaos. but we're a city that's coming together built on love, supporting each other. let the officers know that we support them, not only within the officer realm but also as a community, as a city. >> whoever i've talked to in the city, black or white, i only heard praise for the police chief and what he's done and how he's brought community policing into your neighborhoods. this is a city known for the progress that has been made. but personally, when you heard what happened in baton rouge and when you heard what happened in st. paul, what did you think? >> here we go again.

we've had too many of these incidents that have occurred. that have gone unprosecuted, no build. and so you know, here we go again and what can we do to prevent another incident of like this happening. dallas or anywhere else in the country. you know, what actions must be taken, what process needs to be changed in terms of these investigations. do we need to an independent investigators who can investigate these cases and come back with a finding that will provide justice for so many of these families who lost their loved ones. >> what can we could. >> i think it starts with the training. again, piggy backing off councilman thomas. it does deal with training. it deals with independent investigators. the officers that are wrong and don't get me wrong. there are 99% great cops out

there, but there are some bad cops out there. that's in any profession. those individuals that are not right should be prosecuted to the law if you're not following the law and the standards they're set to follow. >> well, i know it's going to be a long road ahead. it always is when tragedy strikes in a city. but i've also seen how powerful love can be and community can be and we're seeing out at the park tonight the people coming together. so thank you for taking the time to come out and our sympathies are with your city. >> thank you for being here. >> council wilson, councilman thomas, thank you. those are the dallas city council members. we're continuing to watch those demonstrations around the country tonight. let's take a look at the scene in st. paul where protesters have amasses oned on a why. we'll be right back.

we have been keeping our eye on that situation unfolding just a short time ago at the dallas police department headquarters.

an unidentified person racing past police officers into a parking garage across from hq. joining me now from dpd headquarters is nbc news correspondent tammy leiner. tammy, how is the situation there now? >> things have calmed down, changed a lot from when it started when they got a call of a suspicious person in a parking garage. it's about 100 yards to the east of me. it's actually behind the dallas police department. we learned that this parking garage is owned by ibm and leased to the police department. that's where they park all their squad cars, their personal vehicles, their undercover vehicles. and so there was a report that there was a suspicious person in there. so police took up position around the parking garage. they eventually went through and searched it. they first used their armored vehicle, then they went in on foot and certainlied and finally they sent in canine dogs and then used the helicopter overhead. they cleared the three-story parking garage.

they found nobody. but they did -- this took about an hour and a half for them to search it. it is clear now. things have resumed out here at the memorial. you can see that there's still a lot of people gathering out here, paying their respects. there have been people coming and going all afternoon. things started to die down a little bit in the afternoon when this situation was ongoing. but now it's picked back up. a lot of people just wanting to show their support, not only for the dallas police officers, but the dallas community. >> nbc's tammy leitner at the memorial. outside the dallas police department headquarters. thank you, tammy, who has been reporting from there throughout the situation as it unfolded. the events in dallas, of course, happening in the midst of a heated political campaign. neither donald trump nor hillary clinton were out on the campaign trail today, although both have responded to the horrific events of this past week. in an online video, trump addressed the tragedy in dallas as well as the deaths an of

alston sterling and fill lan dole castile. >> a brutal attack on our police force is an attack on our country and an attack on our families. we must stand in solidarity with law enforcement, which we must remember is the force between civilization and total chaos. every american has the right to live in safety and peace. the deaths of alton sterling in louisiana and philando castillo in minnesota also make clear how much more work we have to do to make every american feel that their safety is protected. >> speaking in philadelphia last night, hillary clinton emphasized the need for compassion and empathy following this week's events. >> there is too much violence, too much hate, too much senseless killing, too many people dead who shouldn't be. we need to try as best we can to

walk in one another's shoes, to imagine what it would feel like if people followed us around stores, or locked their car doors when we walked past. let's put ourselves in the shoes of police officers, kissing their kids and spouses good-bye every day, and heading off to a dangerous job we need them to do. >> joining me now, bloomberg political reporter kevin ser rilly who is covering the trump campaign. daniel strauss from politte cho has been covering the hillary clinton campaign. thanks to both of you for being here. i have to say, kevin, a lot of people have been surprised by the relative restraint we vet seen over the past several days from donald trump. are you? >> well, chris, we did hear him in the statement you just played. not only reach out to the law enforcement community, which, of course, is something that he has done for several months now into his campaign. but we also heard him allude to

alston sterling and philando castile. and that, of course, really did take some of his political critics by surprise. clearly this is part of a larger and more broader effort on the donald trump campaign's part to really shift tone from a primary election to a general election strategy. now, that being said, he did have a fund-raiser earlier today in the hamptons. he will be back on the campaign trail on monday with a scheduled event in virginia. but this is a donald trump who has struck a much more measured tone following the horrific tragedies that we've seen over the last week. >> on the other hand, daniel, i think a lot of what we've seen from hillary clinton is pretty much what you would expect to see from hillary clinton in a situation like this. >> it is. you know, for a long time she's been actually talking about criminal justice reform, changing in police practices, and really sort of addressing shooting incidents like the three we've seen in past days and weeks. so it's not so surprising that she's taking a somber tone here.

this really just falls in line with her previous reactions on horrific incidences like these. >> somebody who has faced it as a diplomat, and obviously as a senator. the washington examiner's phil cline tweeted this and i thought it was interesting. he wrote, you actually feel this tragedy thus far has been less politicized than others. almost a collective despair on what's going on in the country. and when i read that, kevin, i thought one of the things about donald trump is he has been very good at reading mood, right? i think a lot of his initial success was, i watched him go into those rallies, and you could see him playing off what people were reacting to. do you think in addition to him wanting to take a more measured tone, certainly members of his family and his staff wanting him to, that he is reading the country? >> two points. the first is that we've seen this, as you said, after the

paris attacks, after the san bernardino shooting. we've seen donald trump really tap into the frustration. and candidly, the anger of the american people during that primary, where he did, of course, increase his lead. and now, you know, you said it again, i think there is a collective despair in the country when we come to these issues. the second point i would make, chris, is i've spoken with trump sources just this weekend, and within the african-american conservative leadership movement. and what they told me is that they were urging donald trump to, again, adopt that tone, to again, highlight and reach out to the victims of some of these shootings. and he's done that. he has listened. so i think the question becomes, how do we move forward. you know, hillary clinton has spoken about this as has the democrats on capitol hill for quite some time. but there has been no deal. there has been no action. donald trump, the crux of his campaign argument, is that he would be able to work with congress, and make a deal.

whether or not the voters believe that, of course, remains to be seen. >> daniel, i guess the question really is, how will this play out going forward. i think the conventional wisdom was going into the campaign, that when there was a crisis in the country, it would play to hillary clinton's strengths, it would play to her experience, it would play to that measured nature of who she is. how does this sort of play out as we go forward in this campaign? you know, it's going to be something i think we'll hear about in debates and we'll hear policy rollouts from both the trump campaign and clinton campaign going forward. in terms of surprise over sort of politicizing this event, we saw not so long ago the sit-in on capitol hill, members of congress demanding new gun legislation. so if that couldn't create some new legislation, it's unlikely that any quick fix, any new speech by either campaign will solve the problem here. but i think later on in the campaign, we're going to see

acknowledgement that this is an ongoing problem in the u.s. >> daniel strauss, kevin cirilli, thanks to both of you. we'll have much more from dallas when we come back. we're continuing as well to monitor demonstrations around the country. watching the scene in new york city's union square. we'll be right back.

this is a city where emotions are running deep. and earlier today, i was at that memorial by police headquarters. a lot of people in tears. i saw texas attorney general ken paxton there, he came to pay his respects and made type to talk with me about these tragic events and the effect they're having on his community and his own family. obviously the shooter is dead. where else do you see this investigation going? >> you know, i think the thing you want to make sure is he didn't conspire with anybody else. i know the dallas police department is looking into those details. they're doing a great job. i'm really proud of their work and what they've already accomplished in a really, really short period of time. it's not going to be one of those things that's done in 48

hours which is about where we're at. it's going to take time. >> does your gut tell you there will be prosecution? >> i don't know. i think that time will tell on that. how can we make sure this doesn't happen again. and i think the dallas police department has already been a part of that. they started reaching out. they were protecting protesters that were protesting against them. and not only were they protecting them, they ran into the line of fire. that's an amazing story. run into the line of fire to protect people's free speech rights that disagree with you. i talked to my wife, i have three daughters at home right now, and it just makes me appreciate being around them and realizing that none of us are guaranteed another moment in life. we should all appreciate the time we have with our families because we never know when it's going to be over. >> are they okay? do they tell you they're scared? >> i think they realize this is a world where there's a lot of uncertainty. one of my daughters is about to head off to europe to study for a month and a half. she goes off, and the last thing i told her is be safe. and she goes, dad, you know i'm

going to be safe. i said i just want you to think about it. be safe. >> does it worry you? >> absolutely. you can't help when you see something like this, the randomness of it, really, for no purpose, this occurred, you always have concerns. especially about your children. >> that was texas attorney general ken paxton talking with me earlier today about crisis and the opportunities that come in the face of this week's brutal attack on the officers of the dallas police department. we want to continue that conversation. joining me now, congresswoman eddie berniece johnson who represents washington and from washington tonight, karen bass of california, secretary of the congressional black caucus. c congress women, thank you both for being here. you and i were talking earlier today, and you heard him say, how do we make sure this doesn't happen again. is there an answer to that? >> there are probably a number of answers. it's whether or not we can get to those answers. i think that if we could get some of these assault weapons

off the street, i think we could get to the answer. we've been trying to get to that answer for a while, though. reauthorization of the assault weapon ban would be helpful. i think another thing that we need to understand is that though this happened in dallas, and we are in grief, this is a national problem. and we need to get assault weapons off the street wherever they are. we've had 491 murders of police in this country this year, as of june 30th. it is time for us to look at this seriously. and forget about the nra. i mean, it seems to me that we are tied in knots, because the national rifle association wants everyone to have a gun, i guess. and there's nothing wrong with people having guns. i believe in the second amendment even though i disagree with the interpretation of it.

i think it's meant for the militia. however, i support people having guns. but i think it's a sensible level that we should be dealing with the number of guns that are on the street, especially when we are not dealing with the mental health of people in this country. >> congresswoman bass, you know this well, because of what happened in san bernardino. it hit home in your state. and i wonder what you think comes next, and does what happened to two black men being shot, and what happened to five police officers being mowed down, seven more ended up in the hospital, does it change the conversation? what happens next? >> well, you know, i certainly agree with my colleague that we need to look at guns and we need to pass legislation. i also think that one of the reasons why it's so devastating nationally when you have what happened to the two men is that

time after time the shootings that the congresswoman referenced, there is almost never a conviction. how do you explain a 12-year-old who was shot after ten seconds when police officers saw him, how do you explain some of the shootings that have happened, and never a police officer ever being convicted? those are the things that lead to hopelessness. the other thing is, just the absolute denial, and looking at the individual that died and trying to expose their behavior or say there was something wrong. now the officer from minnesota is saying, well, i stopped him because he looked like somebody that was suspected of committing a crime. that's what's always said. so i think that we need to get over the denial and accept as a nation that these incidents happen. you cannot always blame a victim. and that we need to look at

retraining. we need to look at our police departments. and we need to say, actually, let's lift up the model of dallas. dallas was known for its community based policing, has been given high marks. we need to examine police departments where things are functioning well and figure out how to replicate that around the country. >> in the minute we have left, i want to ask both of you really where it goes. because we're in this hyper-charged political season. so many people's jobs are up. and you participated, congresswoman bass, in the sit-in to draw attention to gun violence. >> yes. >> and you heard republicans calling it a stunt. what do you do? if you feel as passionately as you do, and i know you do, congresswoman, what do you do? >> well, i think that we have to continue the protest. we have to continue to make our voices heard. and really, i think when the

public is so clear and rises up and says we're just not going to take it anymore, that's when you will see change happen. congress has to act. there's just no excuse anymore. >> congresswoman, the emotion is running very high here. and understandably so. but how do you put that emotion into action? >> well, i hope we can continue to try to get the attention of the people that we need to bring about some action. we need the attention of the american people. but we certainly need the attention of our colleagues in congress. this is not a stunt. and we cannot stop. the pressure's too great. the need is too great. we must continue to call attention to the number of weapons, war weapons on the street, and we must change that. there's nothing else that we can do but to continue. and we will continue. we'll continue because the people are demanding that we continue.

>> congresswoman johnson, thank you for coming over on this saturday night. we appreciate it. it's always good to see you, congresswoman bass. secretary of the cbc who has been as an organization talking about these issues for a very long time. we'll have much more ahead from dallas. but up next, what we know about the dallas shooter, including his time in the military. we'll be right back.

we're back live in dallas. gabe gutierrez reported at the top of this hour that there are new details out there of the military background of the man who shot and killed five police officers and wounded seven in dallas just a few days ago. he was an army reservist whose deployment in afghanistan was cut short after a female soldier accused him of sexual harassment and requested he get mental help. he was honorably discharged last year. joining us is msnbc military analyst jack jacobson. colonel, help us understand this

first. how would a sexual harassment complaint like this typically be handled? >> there would be an investigation by the commander to determine whether or not the accusation had any merit. if it did have merit, then one of a number of things could happen. usually there will be some discipline. but if it were serious enough, it would be referred -- there would be an article 32 investigation, which is the military equivalent of the grand jury procedure. and it would be referred to a courts-martial. in a courts-martial, it could be a judge, if he were found guilty, he could be sent to jail for six months or even longer, in which case he would get a very bad discharge. >> now, we talked to the lawyer who was representing him in this case. and what he told us was that there had been conversations about a plea deal. and under that plea deal, he would have gotten a general discharge. and in fact, he wasn't sure why

he was honorably discharged. are you surprised that happened? >> yes, i'm shocked that it happened. and it indicates that maybe some malfeasance in the chain of command. whether there was a plea deal or not, this kind of behavior usually does not result in an honorable discharge for which the recipient of the honorable discharge is then capable of getting all the benefits that accrue to people in uniform who have received an honorable discharge. now, he could have received a general discharge, or even a discharge under less than honorable conditions without getting a courts-martial. and then he would have reduced benefits when he got out of the service. but to let him get away with an honorable discharge indicates perhaps some malfeasance on the chain of command. certainly laziness. it was interesting to look at his record and see, we were all surprised when we looked at the record and discovered in fact he only spent nine months

overseas, was obviously let home early. when that happens, it's for some reason. it's shocking to discover that the reason was bad behavior, and that instead of there being something else, a judge, he was given an honorable discharge, i think there was some blame to go around. >> just really quickly, jack, if there had been a court-martial, would he have been able to get a gun? >> it depends. it depends on the state. usually what's required to prevent your ability to get a gun, in most states, is getting a dishonorable discharge, which can only be an judged by a court-martial for a felony and for which you would probably almost undoubtedly spend time in a military prison. for all other discharges, even discharge under less than honorable conditions or a general discharge, in all the states i know, you can go out and get a gun.

so getting a discharge, any discharge other than a dishonorable discharge would not have prevented him from going out and getting a gun. >> all of this among the questions that are being asked tonight here in dallas, and across the country. colonel jack jacobs, as always, thanks for being with us. >> you bet. >> we'll be right back.

among the five police officers killed that horrible thursday night is a 14-year veteran of the dallas police force. senior corporal lorne ahrens. married to a police detective and dad to a 10-year-old daughter and 8-year-old son who now will have to grow up without him. jaime castro, a member of the dallas police department called him his good friend. they trained together and i spoke with him earlier tonight. >> how did you hear about what had happened?

apparently had he gone into surgery. he actually was transported to the hospital. but after surgery, there was a complication. he went back in and apparently, by the time his wife got there, will he passed. >> right. when i got to the hospital, i was there within minutes. and right away, i'm trying to figure out, obviously there was chaos. the hospital was preparing for more people to arrive. i'm looking for dpd officers, you know, d.a.r.t. officers were there already. and the few officers that i did find weren't sure what was going on. i'm not sure who it is, i'm not sure who it is. so i come around the corner and i see one of the commanding officers, and he had that look. he knew lorne and i were really close and he had that look, and i was like who is it?

and he grabbed me by the shoulder and he said it was lorne. you go through that state of no, it can't be him. i ran back to the front desk and i said i need the name of the dpd officer right now. who is it? >> he kind of just grabbed me and said hey, it's him. i said have you seen him? have you laid eyes on him to confirm it's him? jamie, it's him. and immediately you start praying in disbelief. and i wanted to be by his side. i said hey, i need to be there. i don't want my bud to be there alone. and obviously, you know, those are things that you just can't control. but it was tough. it was really tough. >> what will you miss? >> him having my back. he was one of those guys just to keep it short, the minute i knew he had what it -- he passed his training. so we're sitting in the bushes,

believe it or not. we're conducting surveillance on these drug dealers and this is going to be his first raid where we're going to be leading the charge, him and i, and i tell him, hey, you know, you stick with me. you don't run anywhere. you stick with me. stand behind me and i'm leading the charge. just stay by my side. and it's dark out there. and he kind of just taps me on the shoulder and goes, i got your back, brother. i'll take a bullet for you. and i knew at that moment, he had what it took to be a good officer. he understood the camaraderie. and i -- i knew he was part of the family at that point and understood what it took to be a good dallas police officer. >> we've heard all these stories about how the officers were talking to the protesters and doing great community policing and then running toward danger. would it surprise you that he was that guy? >> no doubt.

no doubt. once i started seeing the videos, there was no doubt. i was like, there's no doubt lorne -- that's lorne and lorne's leading the charge. there's no doubt. he had those officers' backs. he had the citizens. he's one of those guys that i don't care what beliefs he had, he was going to protect you and do everything he could to make sure you went home before he did. >> have you had a chance to talk to his wife? >> i have. and she's hanging in there. she's being strong for her kids. wonderful woman. i can't say -- i saw her grow through the department, as well. >> she is a detective. >> that's correct. wonderful, wonderful woman. wonderful mother. and she's holding on. she's being strong. >> how do you go forward? how do you go to work? how do you face the day? >> it's tough. it's tough.

i've lost other friends in the department. i was going on 19 years in the department. and you put that uniform on, and you can't help but to think of those officers, you know, you remember their legacies. and all you can do is honor them by getting out there and working. you keep doing what you love. and you do it to the best of your ability. and you serve and protect. >> what a tribute to his friend, my conversation with jaime castro. good friend of senior corporal lorne ahrens earlier this evening. the makeshift memorial in front of the dallas police department has been attracting a steady stream of people wanting to pay their respects. i visited the memorial today and spoke with some people there. >> reporter: you seem quite emotional. >> well, yeah, it's tough on our club. we're law enforcement firefighter vets club and whenever officers are hurt, it hurts us, you know?

i mean, this is a senseless shooting, and i think that people need to realize that all lives matter. and these men and women that go out every day for us are the reason why we're safe today. and you know, seeing that, i don't feel so safe anymore. when the police are getting shot up, i mean this is crazy. i think everybody needs to come together as, you know, citizens in this town. they need to all come together. i don't even know why when stuff happens in other towns and states that people would come down here and start -- start senseless shootings when there was nothing going on. this town has had great civil rights movements, and i think this whole thing has kind of set it back a little bit. >> reporter: why did you want to come here today? >> because i had to pay my respects. it's just important that i think

everybody should come out. if you love the police, if you love dallas, and if you're a good citizen, you should be here. >> reporter: what made you want to be here today? >> i don't really know. i just came. maybe some answers, maybe some closure, maybe some -- i don't know. i don't know what made me come. i just came. >> reporter: what goes through your head when something happens like what happened here? >> it needs to stop. it needs to stop. i mean, it's -- there's no words that can explain it. it's terrible. it needs to stop. >> reporter: i just wonder why you came here today. >> well, i'm from anaheim. i'm here for a funeral, my godson, and i just wanted to

come up here and pay my respects and see the community outreach. i can remember as a kid watching john kennedy get shot in dallas, a third grader. back again in dallas, the community is strong. they're going to get through this. wonderful people here. it was two black gentlemen who told me how to get here and walked me right up to the police station and said hey, brothers we're going to get along. i said we are. >> you know, it never ceases to amaze me when i come to the scene of a mass shooting, and i've been to far too many it seems like days ago thaufs in orlando, that there there are so many wonderful people out there and how communities come together. i'm chris jansing in dallas. msnbc's coverage of the tragedy here will continue after this.