topping that agenda this hourk it's a short list and a flip-flop. donald trump saying now that he has narrowed his list to five for the vice presidency on his ticket. that list including a registered democrat who said over the weekend this about abortion. >> i think women have to be able to choose what they -- you know, sort of a right of choice. >> some conservatives up in arms over that's from lieutenant general michael flynn, the vp hopeful, already trying to walk those comments back today. did he just write himself off the short list. and who else is left on that list? some new developments to tell you about ahead. also on the agenda, the nation still grieving over and grapple with the attack in dallas that killed five police officers. investigators now saying the shooter may have had plans for an even bigger attack, while the open-carry gun culture of texas

is coming under the microscope. >> it's been the presumption that a good guy with a gun is the best way to resolve some of these things. we don't know who the good guy is versus the bad guy is if everybody starts shooting. all right. we said we're watching that situation in berrien county, michigan. looks like a press conference under way. authorities addressing this incident. >> details about what happened or what occurred or how he got the weapon. we will be investigating that, along with the homicide task for force, the sheriff's department and michigan state police and st. joe public safety will be investigating this together. we have the michigan state police crime lab coming down to process the scene. so we ask people to pray for the families of the deceased and we will have further information for you once i get more from the investigators about what

occurred today. >> do you know the deputy sheriff's condition? >> he's in stable condition at this time. >> any other people injured? >> yeah, there's several other people in stable condition at the hospital. >> was there any kind of hostage situation or anything -- what did the people inside do? >> they went for shelter once the shooting occurred. and other brave officers were able to come to the rescue and take the shooter down. >> which hospital? >> everybody is at lakeland regional hospital in st. joe. >> what was the suspect in court for today? >> i don't have that information right now. we'll have more in the next press release. rit now, we are trying to securehe scene, and i was trying to make -- check on my deputy and then also make proper notification of the family of the deceased bailiffs. >> how many people responded?

>> everybody in the area responded. all the police agencies responded. >> some of the injured are civilians? >> yes. >> and you said several? >> we'll have more details at the next press release. i've got to put it all together. so i can't give you any further information that that because i don't have it myself at this time. so we'll have another press conference out here at 6:00 tonight. >> you said the shooter is deceased. can you give us any information on the shooter? >> not at this time. at the next press conference, i will. >> sounds like he was in court today, though? >> that's what i'll find out. right now i didn't get those details because i was too -- trying to concentrate on the injured and my friends. >> do you know how long it took from when the shots started to when he was brought down? >> no, i do not. >> you mentioned your friends. how are you guys feeling emotionally right now?

>> terrible. terrible. thank you. i'll have nmore information for you at 6:00. thank you. >> it's a very brief press briefing there. the berrien county sheriff saying that's two bailiffs were shot and killed earlier today at the berrien county courthouse in st. joseph, michigan, the far southwestern portion of michigan. we're talking about 90 miles from chicago. also saying that the suspect was shot and killed. so a total of three people. that is two bailiffs and the suspect shot and killed in this incident. these shootings at the st. joseph -- at the courthouse in st. joseph, michigan. our own cal perry has been following this story as we learn details. this all happening in the last hour we've gotten word of this. what more can you add about what's going on out there? >> about 2:30 p.m. local time, our time on the east coast when this happened. about an hour and a half ago. the shooting occurred on the third floor of this courthouse.

again, this is st. joseph, michigan. right on lake michigan. at least three people are dead. two of them are bailiffs working for the court. we also understand from our local affiliate wndu, the scene right now is secure. that's why the officials were able to give that press conference. obviously, very fresh. you heard there the emotion in that press conference. we'll wait and hear from michigan state police there at the scene. the governor as well has weighed in on this saying that the quick response of those teams help to secure that courthouse. one of the questions here that remains unanswered, where did the weapon come from? like all courthouses, guns are banned. certainly the early indication on this is that perhaps somebody inside that courthouse was able to acquire a weapon, maybe from one of those court bailiffs, but we're going to have to wait to confirm that, steve. >> cal perry following this. we'll be checking in with you as we learn more this hour. also jim cavanaugh, msnbc law enforcement analyst. he worked for years with the atf. you just heard that press

conference from the sheriff. what did you make of it? what are authorities doing right now on the ground there, do you think? >> well, right now they've got a stable homicide investigation, steve. cal is exactly right. the deputy sheriff before i was a federal agent. and one of the things you're always dealing with in uniform n when dealing with any prisoner who is dangerous is they can get your gun. and you are taught in the police academy you're never really dealing in an unarmed situation. one guy, there's you and at least one gun there. and if somebody can get a hold of it. we don't know if somebody smuggled a gun in there. the fact that two bailiffs are killed, you -- it leads you to suspect, at least, that maybe somebody grabbed one of the bailiff's guns. bailiffs are deputy sheriffs. they're just working court security. so somebody might have grabbed their gun. you know, shot them and then other deputies shot the assailant. >> jim cavanaugh again. i'm sure we'll be checking back

in with you. we're still learning details. just got the basics from the sheriff in berrien county. two bailiffs shot and killed. the suspect also shot and killed. that's a total of three dead. this all happening in the last 90 minutes in berrie county, michigan. st. joseph the county seat at the courthouse. we'll continue to learn more and continue to followis and bring you up to date on everything we learn as we learn it. in the meantime, going to turn back now to politics. donald trump this afternoon making his first public comments in the wake of the dallas shooting. he did that this afternoon at a rally in virginia beach. and he did it by dusting off a slogan that was once used by richard nixon. >> we must maintain law and order at the highest level or we will cease to have a country. 100%. we will cease to have a country. i am the law and order

candidate. >> law and order, if you have a long political memory, that's the term richard nixon used. practical lly a slogan when he n the presidency in 1968. not the first time trump has dusted off a nixon slogan. he talked about the silent majority. trump embracing it today. katy tur was at the rally. tell us what donald trump's message was in the wake of dallas. >> also make america great again, a reaganism, steve. he is co-opting a number of old republican slogans. in terms of this rally, what donald trump was trying to do, it was come out as somebody a little more disciplined. he was reading from teleprompters, he addressed the dallas ambush. he also addressed philando castile and alton sterling in that speech. but the majority of it was aimed at talking about veterans. and also attacking hillary clinton saying that veterans in this country haven't gotten a fair shake.

they haven't been taken care of in the last ten years. talking about the long lines waiting for care. and he was trying to position himself as the person who is going to be watching out for the little guy. the people who fought in wars for this country and have come back to poor care in veterans administrations. the efforts were to show himself as the strong leader in that regard and hillary clinton as more of the same. take a listen to how he phrased it. >> perhaps it's easy for politicians to lose touch with reality when they're being paid millions of dollars to read on a teleprompter speeches to wall street executives instead of spending time with real people in real pain. the disconnect -- [ applause ] thank you. the disconnect in america is deep. there are two americas.

the ruling class and the groups it favors and then everyone else. . the va scandals that have occurred on this administration's watch are widespread and totally inexcusable. >> donald trump wants voters to see that he is the candidate of change. he wants to be the one that will stand up for the regular voter, the voter that might feel disenfranchised and that worked really well for him during the primary season. that's what he aimed for and that's what he got when he was talking about self-funding his campaign. things have changed quite a bit since the primaries. he's no longer self-funding his campaign. adopting more traditional approaches, reading from a teleprompter which is new. so we're going to see how that message goes over nowadays with this general election campaign. but he's also beat hit on speaking about veterans on his own deferments, talking about how he did not serve in a war. all of this with the backdrop of

the gop convention coming up in just a week and donald trump has yet to make his announcement on who his vp will be. >> that's right. katy tur in virginia beach. more on that big question of donald trump and the vp. we're going to get to that in a second. first back over to cal perry. i understand you got some more information about this situation in michigan. >> yes, steve. according to a senior homeland security official, three people were reported dead into the national operations center. but as we were discussing, how did this unfold, according to the senior homeland security official, both of those courthouse personnel, those two bailiffs that were killed, were killed by a gun that was taken off one of those bailiffs. so as we suspected in the initial reporting of this, it was quite possible that because that building is secure, it's very difficult to get a gun in there. it now appears like somebody was able to get their hands on a gun from one of those deputies. they turned that gun on at least two sheriffs bailiffs -- court bailiffs and was then able to carry out this heinous crime,

steve. >> a key development there. cal perry, thanks for that. i'm sure we'll be checking back with you this hour. we're going to pivot back to politics. katy tur was saying donald trump has a big decision to make and he's running out of time to make it. who is his running mate going to be? and donald trump offering some clues today. he said in an interview with "the washington post" he has got it narrowed down to five people. and there's two different categories here. we can show you. there's four political candidates, people with sort of traditional political resumes, chris christie, newt gingrich, mike pence. they've all been vetted, submitted paperwork for the background investigations. trump saying there's apparently a fourth candidate from the world of politics. we don't know who that is. and then trump also saying there is a potential wild card. a military option. this is retired lieutenant general michael flynn, his name emerging in the past few days. people say michael who? who is he?

he is a retired three-star general. the director of the defense intelligence agency. over 30 years in the military. he would be, i believe, the first nominee, if he's chosen, the first nominee for national office, major nominee from the state of rhode island. middletown, rhode island. don't see too many national figures coming out of there. that name surfacing this weekend, then michael flynn giving an interview yesterday and makie ining news with these comments about abortion. take a listen. >> abortion, i think it's, for women, and these are difficult issues, but i think women have to be able to choose what they, you know, sort of the right of choirks but i think that that's a difficult legal decision that -- and i think that women are so important in that decision-making process. >> so seeming to indicate he supports abortion rights. that interview was yesterday.

you can see instantly from conservatives worried about trump's vp pick blowback saying they don't want somebody who is pro choice on the republican ticket. the last time that happened actually was back in 1980. george bush sr. had been pro choice. he ultimately changed his position. since then, every national nominee for the republicans has been pro-life. and flynn, after this blowback, 24 hours later, now apparently saying something very different about abortion. you can see by the way some numbers on this in the republican party. nearly 60%, the most recent poll numbers say they think abortion should be illegal in all or most cases. if you look at the delegates at the convention. a survey a couple of years ago, but these have been pretty steady. it's overwhelmingly an anti-abortion party. in light of that backlash, flynn today apparently changing his position. this is from fox news saying in an exclusive a couple of hours ago, flynn telling them he is a pro-life democrat. i believe the law should be

changed. so there would somebody baggage there for conservatives. the fact that flynn currently a democrat calling himself a conservative democrat but also having now maybe to try to back away from that abortion position. maybe it's a sign he wants the job. also clearly going to be a problem with some conservatives if he tries to get that slot. i want to bring in to talk more about trump and the vice presidency, susan page, washington bureau chief for "usa today." susan, this guy, flynn, makes the comment. he seems to say he's pro choice. 24 hours seems to say he's pro life. i lead that to believe he wants to be trump's running mate, but is this going to disqualify him? >> i read that to mean he will not be trump's running mate. trump has enough problems with republicans, especially including on this issue of abortion rights. so in the interview that he gave, chris cillizza at "the washington post," he said i don't need to double down on an outsider candidate. he talked about wanting to unify the party. that would mean one of those four people who have run and won

office before. some speculation that jeff sessions, the senator from alabama is that fourth mystery candidate on trump's list. those seem like more likely possibilities given that trump has to keep his party united at a convention that looks like it could be kind of raucous. >> the wild card with donald trump is always, it's donald trump. and more than any other politician we've seen nationally in a few years, this is a showman. this is an entertainer. this is a guy who doesn't think about how do you keep the audience interested. how do you surprise them? how do you keep them from getting bored? i wonder when he looks at those political options, more conventional, safe political options if there isn't a part of him that rebels against that's because he thinks it's too boring. >> could do something we don't expect because that's been his practice since he burst on the scene a year ago. but he is getting a lot of pressure, i think, to try to do some things in a more conventional way to hire campaign manager, to actually establish an organization in

some swings states. and you see him moving in that direction. you are right. you don't want to predict what donald trump is going to do. but in this case, my bet is on one of the more conventional choices. >> you know chris christie has the baggage that comes with bridgegate. newt gingrich had plenty of ethical and personal baggage from his days as house speaker. is pence the strongest most stable safe option there? >> he may be. personal chemistry does matter a lot to presidential candidates. and i'll be curious what the kind of body language is between governor pence and donald trump when they're together tomorrow in indianapolis. we know that the personal dynamic between christie and donald trump is pretty good. and that's i think is in his favor. newt gingrich at an event last week, they seemed to have a nice rapport. if governor pence can capture that spark so that trump can see himself campaigning with him over the next couple of months,

i would say pence is a guy who as the trump people now say, checks off the most boxes for them in terms of things they want to do, including good relations with conservatives and evangelicals on issues like abortion. >> all right. susan page from the "usa today," thanks as always. still to come, a lot ahead this hour. going to keep monitoring that situation in michigan. also, our most important number of the day. new polling on the fbi's decision not to recommend charges for hillary clinton. and how voters fear it might impact her in the oval office. but first, to dallas, where investigators are sorting through hours of video trying to piece thursday night's fatal attack on police together. while in baton rouge, the da now recusing himself from the alton sterling investigation because he has a personal relationship with one of the police officer's parents. and larry willmore will stop by. we'll get his reaction to both dallas and police violence against black americans.

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there was a large stockpile. one of the bomb techs called me at home to describe his concern of how large a stockpile of bomb-making materials he had. according to that bomb tech, he knew what he was doing.

this wasn't some novice. >> dallas police chief david brown addressing the extent of the bomb-making materials found at the home of dallas shooter micah xavier johnson. the home he shared with his mother in nearby mesquite, texas. in addition to those materials, police also found bulletproof vests, ammunition and detonators as well as writings that suggested he may have been planning this attack on police for some time. joining me with more from dallas is nbc's gabe gutierrez. he's been following this story for us. we've got a lot of new details from that press conference we just showed a clip from. tell us, what are the headlines coming out of that today? >> hi there, steve. good afternoon. as you mentioned, the police chief saying micah xavier johnson was no novice. he obviously knew what he was doing. investigators are poring through 170 hours of body cam footage, more than 300 witness statements and surveillance video from that massive crime scene, 20 square city blocks.

right now the chief does say that this -- he appeared to have a delusion. that he wanted to go after police officers, and he also said that investigators have questioned johnson's mother. that so far they haven't been able to pinpoint exactly how he may have amassed all these bomb-making skills that he may have gotten from online. he was an army reservist, snts back from afghanistan in 2014 following accusations of sexual harassment, according to the lawyer that was representing him. those accusations of sexual harassment came from a female soldier. at the time she asked for protective order and also that he get mental help. there has been a lot of speculation about what exactly was meant when he scrawled those two letters r.b. in his own blood on the walls as the police were negotiating with him. police chief said he wrote that in two locations, and they are not confirming exactly what this is yet.

there had been speculation that perhaps they may have had something to do with an acronym used by a black power organization. so all that is still to be determined but again, the chief says this is all making a very large toll on the department. and today he talked about the larger issue of police officers in this country. here's what he had to say. >> we're asking cops to do too much in this country. we are. we're just asking us to do too much. every society failure, we put it off on the cops to solve. not enough mental health funding. let the cop handle it. not enough drug conviction funding. let's give it to the cops. here in dallas, we've got a loose dog problem. let's have the cops chase loose dogs. >> now the chief also said today that he had misspoken earlier by saying that the interaction between police, that the gunman had been killed by police in the parking garage outside el centro. he said it was inside the actual

building and two students from the community college had spent the night there terrified waiting until the next morning when the shooting stopped to come out. and they were saved by police. certainly a devastating time here in dallas as this community tries to heal. >> gabe gutierrez in dallas, thanks for that. the attack in dallas n police-involved shootings in minnesota and louisiana last week are generating plenty of political attention. donald trump weighing in just a few hours ago with his first public comments since dallas. that coming on the heels much comments from hillary clinton as well. >> the attack on our dallas police is an attack on our country. our whole nation is in mourning and will be for a very long time. it's time for our hostility against our police, and against all members of law enforcement to end and end immediately, right now. the tragic deaths in louisiana and minnesota make clear that

the work must be done to ensure, and a lot of work, that americans feel that their safety is protected. >> police officers across the country are pouring their hearts into this work because they know how vital it is to the peace, tranquillity, justice and equality of america. they are trying to tell us, and we need to listen. people are crying out for relief from gun violence. gun violence is ripping apart people's lives. they are trying to tell us, and we need to listen. >> someone else who thinks a lot of work needs to be done is our next guest, larry willmore.

it seems the political conversation, the media conversation, it's driven by what the latest major story often what the latest tragedy is. and here we've got this sort of merger of tragedies. you had louisiana and minnesota last week n then right on the heels of that as we're processing it, you have dallas. is there a way -- it's only been a few days, but is there a way to step back, make some sense and say something is coming out of this in terms of any kind of national consensus of where to go, what it means? >> wow, i mean, it's so odd and ironic that in moments like these humanity has a way somehow of rising out of it. if you listen to the dallas police chief who has been unbelievably eloquent in many of the things that he's said. of course, in his defense, you know, for his department which ironically has done so many good things in the community and has worked with the community in so many positive ways. and my heart -- my heart was broken when i thought of those policemen who were doing the

right thing. they were protecting people who were protesting them and then running into that fire. all the humanity that i think has come out of this act, i think, hopefully, can help us to move forward. the people that are speaking out about it and all these things. it's one of the worst weeks i think in terms of race relations that i've seen in such a long time. >> it raises the question, too, and i'm sure you just think about this as somebody who looks at -- you have to think about audience every day. and how -- there's a debate that seems to be taking place here just how divided the country is right now. i saw donald trump got involved in this, and he was saying, obama is wrong. we are a divided -- what do you think? >> well, you know, when you get into sociological implications of everything, for me, i always think these type of events expose racism in the country more than creates it or exacerbates it. usually shines a light on it. and you look at things like people having iphones or cameras and catching these events.

normally those events wouldn't be caught. so the more that we get eyes on these events, the more we realize things are already there and already happening. that's what gets people charged up. in the 60s, the first time we had like pictures of an actual war, the vietnam war in people's living rooms. people got on the streets and they were protesting. same thing with the civil rights movement in the '60s. when that was in people's living rooms. the visceral attachment people have because of that is something they're reading about it doesn't do and hearing about it second hand doesn't even do. >> how do you think about this professionally? >> it's not very funny, i know. >> it's a comedy show but you are a comedy show that you have commentary on social issues and political issues. how do you think about it from that standpoint? >> you have to deal with it day-to-day and as a comedian, doing my type of show, you deal with all types ever things from the reaction to events to what's is the truth inside of there that you want to pull out. what is the humanity being expressed that maybe you can make a show about or do bits

about. it's not the easyiest thing to do, n itand it's a huge challen. we're actually off this week. it's a huge challenge, especially like the day of, when something like that happens. because you know you're in a direct conversation with your audience. it's communication. part of what you do. we don't necessarily report the news but we're reporting on events so we can set up the humor. it's a delicate dance and not an easy one. >> it seems sometimes in these situations a show like yours," the daily show," where they find the humor is not in the tragedy itself but the political reaction or media reaction. it's what politics politiciians saying. when you look at trump, clinton, obama, how they've handled it so far, what do you make of the political reaction? >> overall the tone has been okay. any time you start blaming the president like it's the president's fault when clearly these are things that have been happening for so long and that's someone that wants to get elected and they're scoring

political points, that sort of thing. i don't take any -- i hardly take anything a politician says for anything. you know, i just -- i never -- i always take it not even with a grain of salt. with a pound of salt, anything a politician says. >> we played trump's speech earlier. he did include in his line reference to minnesota, a reference to louisiana. by trump standards, by the standards -- >> those were very good. i thought they were very measured fd very good. i liked those comments a lot. and i like the fact that the police chief focused on the mental health issue in all of this. this obviously was a person who was imbalanced. this was like an act of terror and cowardice from somebody. he has all that equipment at his house, he's been planning to do this for a long time. this wasn't an act of passion, somebody who just saw, you know, something happen and said, i've got to go out and do something. this is an evil, planned attack. so i think our responses should

be measured when things like this happen. >> larry willmore, sorry -- >> it's hard to be funny. >> we doan expect you to be in this setting. we'll be back next week? >> next week. thanks for stopping by. >> thank you. breaking news we've been following this hour. the latest on that shooting at a michigan courthouse. cal perry standing by in the newsroom. you have more info for us? >> so two sheriffs deputies that worked at the courthouse were killed. one of the prisoners apparently was able to wrangle a gun somehow away from one of those deputies. he was then killed as well. so three people killed in total, including the shooter. that was something we weren't clear on earlier. the thoughts and prayers are going out from not only the michigan governor but also donald trump, who has tweeted, quote, thoughts and prayers with the victims, their families, along with everyone at the berrien county courthouse in st. joseph's michigan. just to recap very quickly. this is the town of st. joseph on lake michigan in the state of michigan, obviously. it's a very small town.

a very small courthouse. there was some kind of scuffle on the third floor of that courthouse when one of the people in detention, one of the prisoners was able to get a gun, again, from one of the bailiffs who works in that courthouse. at that point, there was some kind of exchange of fire. at least two of the courthouse bailiffs were killed in this incident. the shooter was then kills. there's also a number of wounded in the hospital, including a deputy sheriff. that condition is not known. it's believed to be stable. that deputy sheriff. but again, at least three people dead in the berrien county courthouse in st. joseph's michigan. >> cal perry in the newsroom. we'll be checking back with you i'm sure again this hour. stand by for that. and also going to have some other headlines for you. headlines at the half. bernie sanders is expected to formally endorse hillary clinton tomorrow at a rally in portsmouth, new hampshire. that endorsement a long-awaited endorsement by many democrats coming after weeks of negotiations over many of the

central policies in the democratic platform including health care and a $15 minimum wage. now sanders apparently ready to get on board. u.s. stock prices soaring today. the s&p 500 stock at a new all-time high. all three benchmarks ending the session in the green. this follows the global market uncertainty seen after the brexit vote last month in britain. and because of that brexit vote, british prime minister david cameron announced immediately after it that he's going to resign as prime minister. he will do that this wednesday. he will offer his resignation formally to queen elizabeth. that follows the vote by citizens in britain to leave the european union and conservative party leader theresa may is now set to succeed cameron. she will become the uk's first female prime minister since the iron lady margaret thatcher. she left office more than 25 years ago now. secretary of defense ash carter, meanwhile, announcing the u.s. will deploy 560 additional troops to iraq.

they'll help deploy infrastructure and logistical support at a newly retaken air base which will act as a staging hub for the long-awaited battle to recapture mosul from islamic state militants. no one from the bush family will attend next week's republican national convention. but msnbc now has an exclusive one on one with jeb bush on what the bush family really feels about the man who beat jeb for the republican nomination. that is coming up later. ♪ ♪ take on any road with intuitive all-wheel drive. the nissan rogue, murano and pathfinder. now get 0% apr for up to 72 months, plus $500 bonus cash. ♪

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the republican platform committee meeting ahead of the cleveland convention trying to hammer out the details of the republican platform. of course, that's convention next week notable in many ways for who is not going to be there. including any member of the bush family. that includes two former presidents, george w. bush and george h.w. bush, and, of course, jeb bush, who lost to

donald trump in this year's republican primaries. msnbc's political analyst and former communications director just drew a very cool assignment. she went up near kennebunkport, maine, home of the famous bush family compound and sat down with jeb bush. take a look. >> was very smart at exploiting these kind of opportunities. he's a master at understanding how the media works. more than anybody i've ever seen in politics. kudos for him for creating the environment and then manipulating the environment to his effect. the tragedy of this, though is that there isn't going to be a wall built. and mexico is not going to pay for it. and there's not going to be a ban on muslims. none of that is -- this is all like a alternative universe that he created. the reality is that's not going to happen. and people are going to be deeply frustrated, and the divides will grow in our country. in this extraordinary country, still the greatest country on

the face of the earth will continue to stagger instead of soar. n that n that's the heartbreaking part of this. people are really going to feel betrayed. looking back on it, i'm not sure what i could have done. having a conservative record, offering conservative solutions, hopefully giving people a sense that i could have done the job wasn't enough. and it might not have ever been enough given the circumstances. so, look, kudos for trump for winning the nomination. it was extraordinary. and you can't take that away from him. he's the presumptive nominee. and he earned it. now he needs to run for president. there's a difference. and we'll see how that works. >> boy, remember 18 months ago, jeb bush was the overwhelming favorite. now talking about how donald trump beat him. and you can see that exclusive interview, our own nicolle wallace sitting down with jeb bush just ahead of the republican convention. that is going to be tonight on msnbc at 10:00 p.m. eastern

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don't start humira if you have an infection. want more proof? ask your rheumatologist about humira. humira. what's your body of proof? science that if you attack somebody endlessly, even if none of what you say is true, the very fact of attacking that person raises doubts and creates a negative perspective. as someone, exhibit a on that since it has been a long time that i've been in that position. i get that. i get it. >> hillary clinton talking there about the science of low poll numbers. that's an interview with vox.com out this weekend. and the barrage of negativity did hit her campaign pretty hard in the last week. in the wake of those comments from the fbi director who said

he didn't want to charge her but took her to task for the use of a private e-mail server as secretary of state. that takes us to our most important number of the day. it's assessing the potential political damage for clinton from what james comey, the fbi director had to say. that number is 56. why? a new poll out this morning, 56% of voters say they do not approve of the decision not to charge hillary clinton. remember the fbi director said he's making a recommendation. he doesn't think it rises to the level of something that's should be a court case against hillary clinton, but he said that she had been essentially very careless with the way she handled her e-mail. of course, sensitive e-mails passing through that server. now here's the interesting thing. if you break this down by party, not at all surprising. the majority of this, republicans saying they don't like that decision. one-third of democrats. that may be high tharn most think. one-third of democrats don't like the decision not to charge her either. and independents, close to 60%.

if you break this down if there's a most concerning finding in here, it's this when you look at independent voters. they say does this make you -- does what fbi director james comey said make you more or less likely or no difference in terms of voting for hillary clinton. a third of independents saying it makes them less likely. if there's good news if there's one candidate who has higher negative numbers than her, we know that is donald trump. but, remember, the trump strategy, a big part of the trump strategy is to try to drive hillary clinton's negative numbers as high as he can to get them as close to his, extremely high negative numbers as he can. in that sense, that's why the e-mail story, what james comey said last week is potentially damaging to hillary clinton. anything that potentially moves those negative numbers closer to the trump level, not necessarily good news for her. it's our most important number of the day. 56% of voters don't like that decision not to charge her.

most important number of the day. senator tim kaine from virginia, democrat, being vetted as a possible running mate for hillary clinton. he's going to join "mtp daily" coming up next. but first, back with more after this. at clorox 2 we've turn removing stains into a science. now pre-treat with clorox 2! watch stains disappear right before your eyes. remove 4 times more stains than detergent alone. pretty much over. show's (friend) wish we could start it from the beginning. (jon bon jovi) with directv, you can.

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we have been following that breaking news out of michigan. a deadly shooting at a courthouse in berrien county. we know three are dead. two bailiffs and the suspect. msnbc's cal perry has been

following this closely. what more can you tell us? >> we've been efforting, trying to get more on how many people wounded. at least two were wounded. and one of those is an employee of the courthouse. as you said, at least two bailiffs are dead at this hour when a suspect at some point was able to wrangle a gun. the shooter is also dead. a total of three people killed. at least two people wounded. we're also expecting an update from officials at 6:00 p.m. our time, eastern time, from michigan. >> cal perry, thanks. that shooting taking place just over two hours ago. this is in berrien county, michigan, the far southwest corner of the state about 90 miles from chicago. we'll keep monitoring that. also a closer look at the tactics police use to put an end to the killings in dallas last week. law enforcement experts saying it's the ffrirst time they've detonated a bomb to take out a suspect. they used an innovative tactic.

this is the robot that made plenty of news. many believe it's the latest example of them turning to military policing. they've been talking about the precedent this sets. >> reporter: the decision facing dallas police was life or death. the heavily armed suspect, micah johnson, had already killed five police officers, wounded 14 people and was taunting officers, warning that he'd planted bombs throughout the area. with police sharpshooters unable to get a clean shot of the suspect, s.w.a.t. commanders presented the chief with a plan. >> to improvise our robot with a device to detonate behind the corner within a few feet of where he was that would take him out. and i approved it, and i'll do it again if presented with the same circumstances. >> reporter: police have been using robots for years. most recently ramming holes in the orlando nightclub trying to

free hostages. but also to remove suspicious clothing from suspects, inspect suspect packages, even fire weapons to detonate explosives. and metro d.c., the montgomery county, maryland, bomb squad is run by the fire department with a small fleet of robots equipped with cameras, microphones and clau claws. >> instead of putting a biotechnition into harm's way, we'll send a robot. >> reporter: since 9/11, many police departments have beefed up their fire power. some criticized for showing up in armored personnel carriers with semiautomatic weapons. now for the first time using a remotely controlled robot to set off a blastic explosive. >> i think police departments all over the country should be very careful how they use these kinds of technologies. confronting our own civilians with military-style equipment is the -- probably the biggest problem. >> reporter: but veteran cops

say you can't second-guess the dallas pd. >> in a case with this many policemen killed and shot, the center of an american city, with all these crises facing them, possibly more bombs, it was the right decision in that unique location of a parking garage on that unique day. >> reporter: dallas chief brown. >> i've got former s.w.a.t. experience here in dallas, and you have to trust your people to make the calls necessary to save their lives. it's their lives that are at stake, not these critics lives who are in the comforts of their homes or offices. >> nbc's tom costello reporting there. here's hampton pierson with the market wrap. >> markets closing positive. the final numbers from wall street, the dow rising by 80 points. the s&p closing higher by 7. and the nasdaq up by nearly 32 points. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide.

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vice president joe biden traveling to dallas in the wake of that tragedy and sitting down with nbc's lester holt just moments ago. we're going to show you some of that interview on "mtp daily" with peter alexander. and that starts right now. good evening. welcome to "mtp daily." i'm peter alexander in washington, in today for my friend chuck todd. we want to get to the latest on

the breaking news we've been following from southwest michigan. two court bailiffs were killed in a shooting at the berrien county courthouse in st. joseph, michigan. as you can see, in the southwest corner of the state. a deputy sheriff and several others were injured in the shooting. they're right now being treated at a local hospital. the shooter, we are told, was killed by police. the county sheriff says the gunman was in court before that shooting. he has not said what the suspect was in court for just yet. the governor of the state of michigan rick snyder tweeting earlier, msp has secured the seen at the berrien county courthouse and started its investigation into the shooting that occurred this afternoon. and donald trump shortly thereafter tweeted, thoughts and prayers with the victims and their families along with everyone at the berrien county courthouse in st. joseph, michigan. we'll keep you up to date to that. a news conference is scheduled from there at about 6:00 this evening. division,