's the one. the best for your skin. ultra sheer®. neutrogena®. see what's possible. at this moment entime, nobody seems to be talking to one another in terms of police in the communities. >> you just can't be law and order and not community. you can't be community and not law and order. on the ground where it's complicated and really matters, you have to do it all at the same time. >> what we're trying to do here,

we're asking cops to do too much in this country. >> our police officers, the men and women who stand each day to protect us need to understand that the president of the united states and his administration will give them the benefit of the doubt, not always believe what they have done is somehow wrong. we need to stand behind the men and women in blue in this country. >> the president believes we have made progress and are far more unified than if you watch cable tv. >> the perception sold by whomever, my god, things are so much worse than they are, than they were eight years ago. it's simply not true. >> good morning. it's tuesday, july 12th. mika has the morning off. with us on set legendary -- let's here is, even in the news studio -- >> legendary columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle.

former communications director for george w. bush nicolle wallace. also bbc world news matter katty kay. msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. we have so much to talk about as far as a lot of polls out. the race is changing by the moment. but speaking of politic, let's talk katy kay about what's happening in britain very quickly. you think it's crazy here -- >> you think it's crazy here, try our politics at the moment. >> you have the new prime minister. >> david cameron is packing his bags as we speak. he'll be out of 10 do you think street by wednesday evening. the person who is going to replace him teresa may has been in charge of homeland security. you like her, she's in the conservative party.

>> i hear she's a moderate. >> more of a moderate. here is an interesting thing. she voted to stay in the european union and now has to lead the campaign to leave it. our politics is mad. >> it is mad right now. nicole, speaking of mad politics, jeb bush telling you why he was not doing to vote in november. talk about how jeb was and just ort of the temperature there regarding the republican party. >> you know, he didn't arrive at this decision to vote for neither hillary clinton nor donald trump easily but he's not doing to move off of it. he's completely hardened in his position against trump, he views him as temperamentally disqualified. i pressed him whether or not he'd consider hillary clinton as a choice on the commander in chief question. he said the fbi and james

comey's indictment equally disqualified. >> what about the american people's indictment yesterday, "washington post" abc news poll, i was stunned, 56% of americans think comey made a mistake, that he should have indicted her. only something like 35% of americans think she shouldn't have been indicted. there we go. that's a plus 21. it was a staggering number to me. not that i didn't think comey messed up, i just didn't think so many americans agreed with me. this will have an impact significantly this fall. >> maybe ratings are even better than we thought for the people that listen. the numbers surprised me, too. i talked to jeb bush last night, i can't vote for either one absolutely drives me crazy in a man who ran for president, who wanted to be president of the

united states. presidents of the united states have to make tough decisions all the time, decisions where they have two bad alternatives, yet they have to make the decision. they can't say i can't decide. he should decide. >> got to make a decision. mike, finally, before we get the news, i can't let this pass, we had when we came in the discussion on whether things were horrible, we were falling off a cliff, 1968. we had a discussion about this, i saw a lot after the horrors of dallas and baton rouge and minneapolis that showed me this weekend that we weren't as divided as people thought. i saw a lot of people on the left reaching to the center. i saw a lot of people on the right doing the same. of course they are going to be the loud mouths that are going to be those that make a lot of money by tearing us apart, but this isn't 1968, is it? >> no, these won't be chicago in 1968. i was in chicago in 196.

the biggest difference i think, my perception of it is, there's no one like robert kennedy standing up in indianapolis after martin luther king was killed, no one in our political leadership who can lower the flame, the collective flame in this country and speak to these ills. we've seen violence in too many american cities, who shouldous vi -- horrendous violence last week in dallas, also in schools, hospitals, urban areas, drug epidemics that plague to many cities. violence of institutions are equally dangerous as the violence that occurs at the end of a pistol. >> again, we don't have that unifying figure like you said. the president on this issue, he's the man, has struck a tone. of course he's hammered by both

sides. people on the left don't think he's criticizing police enough. people on the right think he's criticizing police too much, when, in fact, i thought at least over the past year or two he's tried to go down the middle but it's never enough. >> one thing that is different from '68 in terms of the heat of the conversation is the media landscape. that is driving up the heat on both the left and the right and we didn't have that in '68. you could cut through with a message. >> one clarifying aspect, when i was talking about no leaders willing to speak to the issue and lower the flame, i was not referring to the president of the united states. he is the man on this. he has been tremendous on this at every point. >> but you're not seeing it from the candidates. >> no. don't expect to either. >> a lot of news still on this. last night hundreds turned out in dallas to remember the five officers killed in thursday's ambush on police in dallas. funerals are set for tomorrow and thursday. today president obama will speak

at an interfaith memorial service in dallas. he'll travel there with the first lady, the vice president and vice president's wife. president george w. bush will also speak at that same service. former first lady laura bush will be there as well. with the recent unrest as backdrop donald trump spoke in virginia. he delivered a policy speech promising expanded options for veterans health care. played heavily in the speech as well as trump presented himself as the law and order candidate. >> the police are needed the most where crime is the highest. politicians and activists who seek to remove police or policing from a community are hurting the poorest and most vulnerable americans. it's time for our hostility against our police and against all members of law enforcement to end and end immediately right

now. we must discuss as well the ongoing catastrophe of crime in our inner tice. our inner cities are rife with crime. "new york times" describes startling rise in murders in our cities. brutal drug cartels are extending their reach into virginia and maryland. too many americans are trapped in fear, violence and poverty. our inner cities have been left totally behind. i'm going to fight to make sure every citizen of this country has a safe home, a safe school, and a safe community. we must maintain law and order at the highest level, or we will cease to have a country 100%.

we will cease to have a country. i am the law and order candidate. not only am i the law and order candidate, but i'm also the candidate of compassion, believe it. >> al hunt, we were talking about 1968, talking about echos of 1968, 1972, the law and order candidate richard nixon and now, of course, donald trump trying to grab that mantel. >> george wallace 1968 and '72 also really inflamed a great deal. i haven't met a lot of politicians that want to remove police from communities. there's criticism of police from some quarters but i find very few people who want to take police out of communities. i think this is -- if the racial tensions become more inflamed,

clearly donald trump is one who might take advantage of that. the difference between now and '68 are profound. there's war back then, writing in the streets, demographic profile difference, more tolerance. that's not to say there's not tensions today. not to say dallas and these other incidents in louisiana and minnesota last week don't point to a serious problem, but i think the parallel from '68 are a bit off. >> but nicole, you look at how he did yesterday, the message he delivered. this seems to go to the same group of voters you were talking about when he talked tough on terrorism. >> even more, i think the way he's handle himself since thursday is, you know, and this the whole riddle wrapped in a conundrum that's trump, but you know, this reaches a broader swath of electorate, the one he needs. i think women make up the

largest part of independent voters, swing voters, and i think he's acted in a responsible and comforting manner. now, the pattern has been to do so for a few days, stick to the script for a few days and then to start riffing a la standup comedian when he gets behind the podium. but he has managed to not do that for three days. that it counts as remarkable may be the problem in itself but i think he's strung together three or four very solid days. >> he has from the statement immediately after dallas to the speech yesterday. >> a heck of a bar for donald trump, he's not ranting and raving. >> and hillary clinton didn't get indicted. let's not make that a commentary. >> just in terms of what he factually said, to compare this to 1968, i'm sorry, you look at the crime rate in 1968 and look at the crime rate now, it's way

down, more than a third, almost a half. there's no comparison at all. it's a different time. the real -- one of the real tragedies of this happening in dallas is that dallas is a city where police reforms were working. david brown became police chief, complaints of excessive force are down by two-thirds, two-thirds. police shootings were -- there's one so far this year. knowing your community, deescalating -- >> can we scale across the country what he's doing. >> look, if it can happen in dallas -- dallas is not some ma'am mamby, pamby city, we're talking a real city, not vermont. >> hillary clinton and donald trump speak to it a little but

largely how complex it is. you have police departments in this country, many of them in large cities, where the cops can't afford to live in the city where they work so they live 35 miles away from the places they patrol. you have a similar aspect in 1968, inner cities, there's isolation in inner cities. you can go blocks without finding a good grocery store. you can go blocks without finding a good grocery store. you can go miles without finding a terrific school. that's similar to 1968. >> we all think other than eugene robinson that burlington is a real city. we love you burlington, vermont. >> i love burlington, too. i don't know a real city -- >> howard dean cooling on that one. let's get to a lot of new polling in the white house race that's come out this morning. donald trump is gaining back some of his losses against hillary clinton this week.

a three-point race in the nbc survey monkey tracking poll with clinton ahead 47 to 44%. clinton clinging to a nor owe lead in four-way matchup 40% to trump's 38%, libertarian gary johnson climbs into double digits of 11% and green party jill stein taking 6 points. swing state of nevada shows clinton with four points over trump. in the margin of error, 45-44%. gary johnson at 5%. the brand-new poll of college educated voters show clinton with a 22-point lead, 54 to 32% in the bloomberg politics purple slice poll. barack obama won that group, by the way, by just 2 points in 2012 when it represented 47% of the electorate. among white voters with just a college degree clinton has 11 point lead, no democratic voter has won college educated voters

since 1962. >> al hunt, that's your poll. tell us about it. >> if we can define a base, let's take 2012 than a base. if the candidate wants to do better than losing candidate last time, he or she has to do pretty much as well in most groups. i think for trump this time, other than mormons he has to do almost as well as ronnie did and then do better among white working class and older voters and the like. these are college educated likes. this is a republican constituency. mitt romney carried it by 14 points and he's losing it by 11. every time i look at one of these slices it makes some other surveys at least more questionable. i just don't see right now where trump is making up those votes that romney couldn't get, certainly not with college educated voters. >> it's not, nicole. that's exactly what i was

thinking when we were looking at all the polls. asking ourselves, where is he making this up because he's making it up. he's basically even in national polls. then in just about every swing state poll we have seen over the past two or three weeks, trump is either tied or ahead. we saw it again in nevada. >> you asked me yesterday pout what i think is the most startling figure, the gender gap. i think hillary has a 22-point advantage among women. he's making it up among what has been his base since june of last year. he's making it up among this sort of swath, slice that isn't ideological, not the republican base we think of, the disaffected economy voters, people who are angry about trade, the people who are just dealing with sort of constant economic insecurity. >> in our world we're hearing probably as republicans from a lot of college educated republicans and traditional

republicans like jeb bush saying i'm not voting for trump. then elsewhere you're having a lot of democrats say i'm not voting for hillary clinton. obviously if you look at these numbers -- >> i don't remember if we had this conversation on tv or not but we were debating whether or not the hidden trump vote is bigger or the hidden hillary vote is bigger. by that i mean people for trump but don't want to come out of the closet yet and embrace him because of some of the more radical and controversial things he says or the people who secretly and privately vote for hillary because they are part of the republican establishment and uncomfortable with -- i think polls will -- they have been mostly correct. the primary polls were right. >> unless you're in britain. those polls are never right. >> you've seen -- i call them aaa voters, alienated, anxious and angry. they are all over the place. that's how he makes it up, i

think. >> right. but not like right, left. >> i spent the morning the other day with a talk radio show host in virginia who described what he calls the wussification of american male, democrat or republican. these are men who grew up expecting one kind of life, which is the life their father and grandfather had, the life they would be able to work hard and provide for their families. that life doesn't exist anymore. those are the people flocking to trump. it doesn't matter whether their families voted democrat in the past or republican in the past, they see a world that has changed, a world they feel they have been left behind by the forces of globalization, call it what you will and that's the protest vote in america, the vote that likes what it hears in trump. >> if there's a bradley effect, al hunt, at least for what i've

experienced, it's for trump. there's so many times i've talked to groups or had people come up and nobody would admit in big groups they were voting for trump, nobody. then they come up and whisper as they are leaving, i'm voting for trump, i'm voting for trump. i think the polls may be as hard to read here as they have been in britain over the past couple of years. >> joe, they may be. if there is a bradley effect, it probably would advantage trump more than clinton. i'm not quite sure i agree with you that these polls show this tight of race. a whole host of polls, "washington post" and reuters and bloomberg and pew in the last few weeks all show a race close to double digits. >> al, that's the tale of two polls. the polls we've been showing that, i know bloomberg has but we've been showing one nbc poll after another and several other polls that national polls show

it very close. >> washington and pew. >> more surprising to me is a lot of these swing state polls seem to be close. >> in some states that's clearly the case, but also north carolina is very close, nevada as you reported this morning, is very close. >> ohio, pennsylvania, florida, the swing states. >> there haven't been very many good polls in a place like pennsylvania. i think if you take the totality of the polls she has an advantage today. that's not an advantage that is very commanding and also not an advantage that has anything to do with her, it has to do with trump. maybe there will be, as you call it, the bradley effect back to los angeles and silent voters. we didn't see that much in the primary, maybe they will in the general. i think there's not much evidence of that yet. >> still we've got a big show ahead this morning. retired general michael flynn on donald trump's short list for

vp. also u.s. senate candidate kamala harris. how younger voters are feeling about the race. later bryan cranston has a lot to say about politics. we're excited about seeing him and everybody else. mostly excited about our dear friends in burlington, vermont. you're watching "morning joe." owen! hey kevin. hey, fancy seeing you here. uh, i live right over there actually. you've been to my place. no, i wasn't...oh look, you dropped something. it's your resume with a 20 dollar bill taped to it. that's weird. you want to work for ge too. hahaha, what? well we're always looking for developers who are up for big world changing challenges like making planes, trains and hospitals run better. why don't you check your new watch and tell me what time i should be there. oh, i don't hire people. i'm a developer. i'm gonna need monday off. again, not my call. hey there, starting your search for the ri am!used car? you got it.

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welcome back. three people dead in michigan as a man fired at a courthouse trying to escape custody. had 4-year-old later darne-- la darnell gordon shot and killed two bailiffs and briefly tried to take hostages. he was quickly shot and killed by other officers. two others hurt. michigan governor rick snyder called for support for police officers following this latest incident of violence. >> this is a particular tough time for law enforcement, so i ask that everyone reach out and try to be as supportive of law enforcement across the state and

across the country as possible. in a difficult case like this. >> by the way, this shooting brings a number of law enforcement officers fatally shot by suspects, one in the line of duty, to 27 this year up from 16 a year ago. let's go to dallas now where today is that memorial service. killed in thursday night's ambush. chris jansing is there. chris, set the scene for us in dallas today. >> obviously a city in mourning, in needs of words of comfort. that's what they are hoping for from president obama. this will be the 11th time katy he has come to a mass shooting. they want him to give some idea how you move forward after a horror like thursday night. he will do that. in fact, i'm told after huddling with his top advisers, he's largely writing this speech himself as he did after charleston. we saw him do it for the

commemoration in selma. but he's also not doing to avoid the politics. he's going to talk about race relations in america, the need for forming relationship between communities. in fact, we heard that a little bit yesterday after a meeting with police officers, vice president joe biden. here is a little of that. >> what's not happening in the '90s, you don't have police officers out of the car, knowing who runs the grocery store, showing up at boys and girls club, there's much less interaction. what happens is, that woman police officer sitting in a squad car they don't know she's a mother of three kids, coaches basketball and a good person. conversely the kid around the corner crossing the street with a hoodie, they don't know this kid may be a poet instead of a gang banger. >> we heard the president's powerful oratory in these situations before.

i remember after sandy hook, that memorial service, but there's a huge frustration by the part of the president and his top aides. so little has changed. i think that synthesized so powerfully in the press conference at parkland hospital where one of the trauma surgeons, an african-american, said he's seen these white police officers brought in. he said, i respect them and i'm going to treat them to the best of my ability, but he acknowledged, i think, so honestly, that he's also a little bit afraid. i talked to some african-american leaders in this community yesterday and they said it's so important for somebody who is not just this kid by a 47-year-old trauma surgeon to say that, to say there is this fear. in the end he says the killing, it has to stop. that powerful message that the president will have to address today, katty. >> i'm sure we'll hear more on that from him. nbc's chris jansing. thanks so much.

>> the search for officers use of force, interesting data in recent days including this analysis from a harvard economics professor on the "new york times" upshot blog. he noted fbi statistic shows 31.8% of people shot by police are shot by african-american. similar percentage, 28.9% of arrestees are african-american. the bias comes in with the percentage of african-american people in the population. the arrests and shootings being close to equal indicates there isn't added bias when it comes to police shootings. as for the incidence of police shootings, another study could find no racial bias. the study focused on more than 1300 shootings, fatal and nonfatal in 10 police departments, texas, florida, and california. "the new york times" reports, quote, in shootings in these 10

cities involving officers, officers were more likely to fire their weapon without having first been attacked when the suspects were white of. the study conducted, youngest received tenure at harvard, called it the most surprising result of his career. however, in other encounters according to the same study plaques were measurably more likely to have force used against them than white, 17% more likely to have police put their hands on them, 18% more likely to be pushed into a wall p 16% more likely to be handcuffed, 19% drawing a weapon, 18% push to a ground, 24% more likely to have a weapon pointed at them or 25% more likely to have pupper spray or baton on them. >> this is the second "new york times" article since dallas that shows when it comes to actual

shootings there is not the bias i suspect there has been if you look at the data. gene robinson, you look at every other area, though, there obviously is clear bias. >> these numbers surprise me. it's a study i'd love to see replicated. i'd love to see some data because frankly a lot of people find it hard to believe. i find it hard to comport with the reality that we see. if you look qualitatively at the incidents we've seen over the last few years, it's difficult to find parallel situations in which white suspects have been killed. like walter scott running away from the police officer in charleston or even, you know, what we've seen in the last

couple of weeks. >> eugene, is it possible that those incidents are happening, a white suspect runs away, gets shot by police, and it didn't come to public attention in the way that it does when a black suspect is running away or do you think it's just not happening? >> look at what happened at the michigan courthouse. so here is a suspect, shoots two bailiffs in a courthouse, right. so the media, it's a huge story. everybody thinking it's a big deal and then turns out to be a white suspect and kind of recedes. >> one of the issues, first of all, i got a headache reading it. i had trouble following it. one of the problems with studies like that is it takes our eye off the ball. we refer to studies instead of the reality.

the reality is that police departments in major cities across this country have been forced to be urban replicas of the marine corps. everything is thrown on them, everything thrown on the police department. every societal change that breaks down, let the cops take care of it. the other aspect is, reality, real world aspect is, gene has a son, i have three sons. i never had to tell my sons 14, 15 about to get their driver's license, remember, keep both hands on the wheel when you get pulled over, act respectfully, i never had to do that. >> i had to do that. >> i have a friend who has one black son and one white son. when his white son goes out for the evening he knows autos going to come home. when his black son goes out for the evening, he doesn't know he's going to come home. >> front page of "new york

times," i'm sure a lot of people will be looking at it and talking about it today. we'll be back in just a moment. >> i understand the anger and the frustration and distrust of law enforcement, but they are not the problem. the problem is the lack of open discussions about the impact of race relations in this country. i think about it every day, that i was unable to save those cops when they came here that night. it weighs on my mind constantly. this killing, it has to stop.

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inroads among young americans who overwhelmly bernie sanders in the primary. staggering, 30% of voters 18 to 30 had an unfavorable view of hillary clinton. genforw. that includes 68% of young white voters, 42% of hispanic voters and 38% of asian-american voters. clinton gets 38% of youth vote 2.2 prefer somebody else, 17% say donald trump and 16% say they won't vote. you look at those numbers, boy, julie, it is none of the above, isn't it? >> it really is. that is what was most striking to me in this poll. you have really dismal numbers for trump. you have so-so numbers for clinton. there's a lot of frustration with this election and two major party developments. calling some of the voters we

polled, you hear that over and over again. they are frustrated with the system. they do not see their choices as being choices that represent them and they really feel like there should be a third party option. someone else who could step in and represent young voters. for a lot of them, they thought bernie sanders. he obviously isn't in the race anymore. what we'll have to see is whether his endorsement of clinton ends up influencing voters and moving them to his side. >> what is it, julie, specifically they don't like about hillary clinton. what do they tell you? >> one of the bigs things and this won't come as a big surprise, they don't find her honest an trustworthy. they don't find her straightforward. they believe she's part of the staple establishment political system they don't feel represents their interest right now. she can take away from this good news, which is they just believe donald trump is so outside of the mainstream of their lives that they could never vote for him but she's really struggling

still to give young voters a pro active reason to come out and support her. that's not about opposing donald trump. >> i wonder if you heard any alarm from democratic leaders. it is so hard to mobilize young voters. obama did that in '08. it looks like hillary now risks pushing them out of that coalition. >> absolutely. you were talking earlier about both trump and clinton needing to put together coalitions of voters to put them over the top. young voters were so crucial to obama's coalition. he won 66% of young voters in 2008, 60% in 2012. i remember going out to places like university of wisconsin where the obama campaign would literally be driving around campus in golf carts getting young people to go early vote, to sign up to register to vote. it's an enormous effort but you have to have some buy in from young people at the start. they need to believe in your candidate. they need to at least believe your candidate is someone that represents their interests. democrats are worried.

if hillary can't put together at least a coalition that looks somewhat similar to obama's coalition with young people, she's going to need to try to make up that margin elsewhere. >> al hunt. >> it's a fascinating poll. as you suggest, the key here is whether she can get them to vote. they are not going to vote for trump. can bernie sanders help? if she picked an elizabeth warren, would that have any sense of what might help? she's not going to suddenly convince people tomorrow, i'm honest. >> a hard time totally flipping this impression with her. that's why today's event with bernard is going to be so interesting. it's not just the idea of him standing next to her, it's what he says about her. how does he vouch for her? what does he say about what young people should do specifically? does he make a very direct case to them to come out and vote for her. someone like elizabeth warren could play that role going forward. young people need a reason to

come out and support her. right now hillary clinton alone isn't giving them that reason. >> hillary pace, thanks so much. you look at the honest trustworthy numbers she was talking about. again, i go back to abc news poll, we've been surprised in the study "new york times," but you look at the poll talked about earlier, james comey, 56% of americans disagree that he wasn't -- he didn't indict hillary clinton, he didn't indict the democratic nominee. 66%, only 35% grow with that decision. for hillary apologists say, not a problem. this e-mail thing, one more -- >> if you're in this mode of thinking politicians have not done you any favor over the last eight years and that politics is broken and somehow

dysfunctional, you are craving somebody, i think, who is trustworthy and you can rely on. neither candidate is giving you that, neither donald trump or hillary clinton. i spent much of june talking to young women voters who don't particularly like hillary clinton. another thing they said to me, we feel the woman president would be new but hillary clinton for us feels old. not just that she feels old in terms of age, she feels like old news. there's nothing fresh about her. >> i think for a lot of people, it's going to be an election of voting against the other candidate, thinking that, you know, i don't like this candidate at all but the other candidate is worse. you hear republicans say that about hillary clinton. you hear democrats say that pout donald trump. that's where we are. >> a country of 300 million people. this is the best we can do. >> how many politicians on both sides, republicans and democrats, presidential wannabes sit and look at both these

candidates and say, i could beat them. >> i'd say every one of them. >> i'm actually hearing from democrats, oh, my gosh, i wish i had a chance at donald trump. >> i wonder what joe biden says in private moments. jeb so much as said it when i talked to him yesterday. >> mike is laughing. they are all saying that. >> yes. we'll just say that. they are all saying that the answer is all of them. >> coming up next, "the washington post" chris cillizza is going to join us with his interview with donald trump yesterday. he broke news about a candidate search for a running mate. also david cameron moves up his timetable to resigning as prime minister from september to tomorrow. [plumber] i need to be where the pipes are.

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frf i'm delighted teresa may will be the next prime minister. she's strong, confident, and she will have my full support. >> british prime minister david cameron announcing support for teresa may set to become second female prime minister in the uk in its history. cameron announced he would step down in october following last

month's brexit vote. now he will stand down as prime minister tomorrow. while prime minister cameron isn't done with his job quite yet, it seems he's immediately at the moment relaxed after speaking yesterday. cameron's lapel microphone picked up singing a little tune to himself as he's entering 10 downing street. >> thank you very much. ♪ >> we actually got our hands on closed circuit footage from inside 10 downing streets moments after the prime minister went in. take a look. ♪ you want more more more ♪ ♪ then jump for my love ♪ ♪ jump in feel my touch ♪

♪ if you want to take my kisses in the night baby ♪ ♪ jump for my love i'll take you down i'll take you down ♪ ♪ where no one's ever gone before ♪ [ laughter ] >> he can move. >> i'm not sure david cameron has quite the hips or teresa may. >> maybe not. he is happy he's getting out right now. >> i think the prospect of taking us through the next three months when there was a fight in the leadership and all the confusion around brexit, listen, i was in london over the weekend. i had dinner with a couple of economists who said to me we are headed to pound parity with the dollar. we are going to recession. we have political chaos and it was all self-inflicted. >> why did teresa may want this job? >> especially when they voted -- >> you've been in the party as long as she has, this is what you want. you want to be leader, right? >> just like united states.

here you think things are bad for the democrats look at the republicans. you look at what's happening with the labor party, just chaos. they have a leader that nobody, nobody seems to want. >> and who everybody blames for not having mounted a good enough campaign to allow the remain vote to win. >> al hunt chaos on both sides of the atlantic. just sheer chaos. >> yeah, you know how -- we talk about how bad our system is, how chaotic it is. you not only look at britain but with a few exceptions perhaps germany. most other places, western democracies if anything are doing worse. right wing pressures are great in france. italy is always in some state of disarray. our politics are troubling. i agree with what was said earlier. joe biden, john kasich will be running away with this case,

'64, '72 style. let's keep things in perspective, we're not as bad as other places. >> you admire the transition as opposed to the way we do. >> you're out. he's packing his bags, out on wednesday. >> they don't come back. they are gone. they do not come back. >> nor do their family members. >> what's your name is churchill. >> unless you win a war and save civilization. >> then you get a second shot. >> donald trump says he's a law and order candidate and weighs in on his opponent. "washington post" chris cilli a cillizza -- he tells him hillary clinton is overrated in the brains department. retired general michael flynn is our guest. "washington post" robert costa with a latest report of veepstakes and everything that's

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has trump scammed our voters? >> i think there will be ample time to talk about that after the election. >> sounds like you think he scammed our voters. >> i don't think we're going to build a wall beyond what's been planned. i don't think mexico is going to pay for it. i don't think we're going to ban muslims. >> but seriously, a skom might be t-- scam might be too provocative of a word.

running an election, who to be afraid of. >> he's not been specific about how he's going to fix the things that are broken. he's been quite articulate saying things are broke. >> you're the guy saying you were going to fix them. >> so at some point over the long haul, when conservatives get back in the game and win the presidency, we need to not say how bad things are but offer a compelling path in a complete different direction. i'm confident we'll do that, but it's not going to happen in this presidential election. >> he loses in a landslide, will any of you feel vindicated or satisfied. >> sad. >> if he wins will you feel happy? >> i'll be worried. >> no good outcome for you. >> no. that's why i can't vote for either candidate. this is a decision that's painful for me. i love my country like everyone else does. i see is languishing in a time

we should lead the world. >> do you think your parents are going to vote for anybody? >> i don't know. i'm not really asking them. >> you don't want to know? >> some things parents need to be doing their thing. i don't want to know because i don't want to say. >> oh, my gosh. welcome back to "morning joe." tuesday july 12th. mika, of course, in the south of france, or whatever. >> sad or worried. >> donald trump. >> sad or worried. >> donald trump wins he's worried, hillary clinton he's sad. >> pick one. >> you're one of these that say you can choose one or the other. >> choose one or the other. he wanted to be president of the united states. if you're president of the united states, right, you have to decide -- you're iran negotiators come to you and say, here, this the best we can do. either we turn it down and go to war, in which case you'll be sad. or we accept it and they might

in 10 years, in which case you'll be worried. you have to choose. >> what if you had to choose -- what if you had two names on the ballot and you were russian and it's 1925 and your choices were lenin or stalin. would you say the same thing. it's not a linear choice. you can write in, go a third way. >> we're not quite tolen lenin stalin. >> there are people deeply offended by donald trump being president of the united states and people deeply offended with hillary being president of the united states. >> i'm with gene, i think you have to choose. i haven't really thought of it the way you thought of it. if you're running for president you have difficult choices. this is not the most difficult choice in history. there are choices. >> so you're just going to let

everybody else decide. you think this is really important. >> he'd rather be sad than worried. he'd rather be sad than worried. he's chosen. >> he's not going to be on tv -- he's jeb bush. he's not going to get on tv and say i'll vote for hillary clinton but he's going to get in that booth and do it. >> i think there are a lot of people who have given money to jeb bush the last year and a half that voted for hillary clinton. >> you think that? >> because they told me. >> i think that's a pretty educated guess right there. >> we need to get nicole back and grill her on what he said in private and whether he gave a hint. >> i grilled nicole on that and he didn't say. >> we have on set msnbc contributor mike barnicle and bbc anchor katty kay, eugene washington. bring in also from washington msnbc political contributor of

"the fix," chris sliver, a. and msnbc political analyst robert costa. let's begin in the news with katty. >> it's still all revolving around dallas. last night hundreds turned out to remember five officers killed in the ambush on dallas. funerals set for tomorrow and thursday. today president obama will speak at an interfaith memorial service in dallas. president george bush will speak there as well. with recent unrest in the country as a backdrop donald trump in virginia. he delivered a policy speech expanded options for veterans health care. issues of inner city and policing played heavily in the speech as trump presented himself as the law and order candidate. >> the police are needed the most where crime is the highest. politicians and activists who seek to remove police or policing from a community are hurting the poorest and most

vulnerable americans. it's time for our hostility against our police and against all members of law enforcement to end, and end immediately right now. we must maintain law and order at the highest level, or we will cease to have a country 100%. we will cease to have a country. i am the law and order candidate. not only am i the law and order candidate, but i'm also the candidate of compassion. believe it. >> mike barnicle, law and order, '68 and '72, it worked pretty well. >> it's a pretty complicated issue and donald trump didn't address the complexity of the issue yesterday in the speech. he is the law and order candidate. but there's an inference in the

way he says it and there's an inference in his rallies that he wants let's choose order first over law and you can't do both. the issue is so incredibly complex, consult really, socially, going to require more money than we spend now to reduce the isolation you find in inner cities. it's going to require toning down the rhetoric among politicians, lower the flame, bunson burner flame. realize the police are asked to do jobs in this sie chooses to . they are asked to confront every social, cultural flaw that has occurred in the last 15 to 20 years. you see the police out there, we talked about it earlier last hour, it's as if they are the marine corps charging the beaches. the schools are broken, no hospitals, no shopping centers in inner cities. you go do it. you go fix it. >> chris cillizza, speaking of law and following the law, it's stunning "washington post" abc

news poll came out about hillary clinton, donald trump's opponent. i think most of us around the table are pretty staggered by the 21% gap between those who thought hillary clinton should have been indicted and those who did not. 56% disprove of comey not indicting hillary clinton. only 35% approved. like us, were you surprised by the 21% gap? >> a little bit. that it was that big a gap. joe, look. there's been majorities of people who say they don't trust her. they don't think she's given the full story on the e-mails. they don't think she's telling the whole truth. we talked about this before, i'm going to continue to say it. hillary clinton is a very beatable, general election candidate. i don't know if she's beatable by donald trump. >> we're showing driving the car, chris, we're showing nbc news survey monkey poll similar numbers 56% thought she should

have been indicted, 41 agreed with comey. >> look, i think you're going to get a majority of people who say they disagree with the decision not to indict. we know you get a majority of people if they say do you think she's telling the full story. most people say no. frf how can you make an election about hillary clinton, onone of the most high-profile divisive figures, you'd be hard pressed to do it. i talked to donald trump, asked him about it. you've got it all wrong. i'm defending myself, doing what i need to do. he reminded me i was wrong about

him in the primary, which i was. i just think it is a mistake to make this race a referendum on donald trump. the way republicans win this, you make it a referendum on hillary clinton. >> and you look, bob costa, donald trump actually been trying to do that for quite some time. you look at the numbers, again, hillary clinton's negative extraordinarily high, donald trump's extraordinarily high. what can you tell us what nicole touched on before about the change of tone in dallas, ensemble a few days in dallas, nicole noticed what others have noticed and that tends to be a toning down of rhetoric. >> you see it, not tweeting as much about the issues. nicole revealing jeb bush indicative of how many people in the party feel about donald trump. he seems to have acknowledged a lot of party leaders are worried

about him and vice presidential pick is going to send a signal good or bad about where he's going on his campaign. >> we've had a bit on the polls, let's get the latest. there's quite a lot out recently. donald trump gaining back some in his losses to hillary clinton. survey monkey tracking with clinton ahead 47 to 44%. clinton clinging to a narrow lead in a four-way matchup, 40 to 38, gary johnson 11%, jill stein 6%. in nevada shows clinton with four-point edge over trump but that's inside the margin of error, 45 to 44%. gary johnson's at 5%. a brand-new poll of college educated voters shows clinton with a 22-point lead, 54 to 32% in a bloomberg politics purple slice poll. barack obama, by the way, won that group by two points back in

2012 when it represented 47% of the electorate. among white voters with just a college degree, clinton has 11 point lead. no democratic candidate has won that bloc since 1952, joe. >> bob costa, where is trump making up those numbers? if you look today, rnc struggling, nationwide, the question is where do the voters come from for trump. you talk to his campaign and advisers, they believe at this point they have to rouse these working class voters in the rust belt. can they go into a place like ohio, pennsylvania, even virginia and start going to the midwest as well and winning states that have seen a lot of industrial hurt and economic hurt. it's not going to be easy, joe.

the governor of indiana rumor to be vice presidential pick. a lot in the rust belt very tight right now. >> gene, we've just got numbers going every direction. you've got groups that traditionally support republicans that are bringing democratic. you've got trump getting pounded among women, getting pounded among hispanics, getting pounded, of course, among blacks. yet a lot of polls are showing it to be a tight race. >> yeah. i mean, look, there's a couple of mega theories you can have about this election. one is that there's some sort of major realignment going on here that democratic and republican party coalitions are shifting around. >> is it about trade, do you think? >> trade is a huge issue. that's an issue that neither party is adequately addressing according to americans. you know, that's clear.

immigration is a big issue. that animated a lot of trump support. however, it could be a realignment, it could be just a scrambling due to the fact that we have two unusual candidates, very unusual candidates, who have such high negatives and people are just trying to figure out what to do. i don't think we know the answer to that. >> katty, in britain, so many experts, so many elites didn't see it coming because a lot of it did come down to immigration. >> yeah. i think the tectonic plates of our economy have shifted, right, in the last 20 years, with gobblization and its trade and immigration, and its high deficits. i don't think the established classes have sufficiently addressed the concerns of those people who have been left behind by those changes. >> right. >> they are out of touch with them because they sit in london or sit in washington and they don't know what's happening in the north of england and don't necessarily know what's happening in the rust belt.

they don't feel it. they don't feel it. they haven't addressed it from a policy standpoint and in it's coming back to bite them in both sides of the atlantic there's a very similar thing that is coming back to bite them. >> chris cillizza in your "washington post" piece, you talk about what donald trump says about hillary clinton and you write in part, quote, she's highly overrated in the brains department. trump also said that, by the way, of jeb bush. she's really bad at reacting under pressure. of himself, trump said, i was always a good athlete, adding under pressure some good athletes become bad athletes, revving to clinton. trump also casting clinton track record as inability to handle pressures of spotlight. >> quote, whether it was a war, e-mails, she got worse and worse, he said. chris, talk about your fascinating interview with donald trump. >> well, joe, i'm sure you've had this, too, it was 9:30 in the morning. my cell phone rang, it was 212.

i assumed it was msnbc, honestly. i picked it up, it was chris hayes, it's donald trump. i tried to ask him as many questions asik. as anyone who has seen him on television, he just talks and you try to steer the conversation. yeah, you know, he mostly wanted to call to say that the stuff about last week where -- the speech he gave, which i was very critical of, where he sort of veered away from talking about hillary clinton, talk about the star of david, saddam hussein was so good at killing terrorists. he said he had talked about her enough and the crowd gets, i don't want to say board, but his crowds don't just want to hear about hillary's e-mails, which is fascinating. he went on a tangent talking about her and how she's lacking in the brains department. i always say, what would happen if jeb bush said some of the things donald trump said. if jeb bush said she's overrated in the brains department, i mean, you know, it would be a

huge story. with trump it's just sort of a ho hum. one thing i want to make a point on the polls. what's fascinating with him coming back, even when he dropped, she never gained. i think that's important. her number never moved up. maybe jill stein got some, gary johnson got some, went to undecided. there's this bedrock people who are going to be for her and bedrock group of people who are going to be against her. he needs to unite all the people who want to be against her behind him. i don't know if he can do that or not, as bob costa mentioned earlier. i think he thinks picking a vp like a pence would help do that. >> okay. let's go back in history. "the wall street journal" got its hands on donald trump's syndicated radio feature "trumped" which aired 2004 to 2008 including this bite which trump gave praise to hillary clinton.

>> the candidates were jockeying a little bit talking about a dream ticket. for his part obama said autos just focused on winning the nomination, although at least one member of his team said clbt would make a good vice president. i know her and she'd make a good vice president or good president. >> another audio. another bit of video coming back to bite donald trump. >> bob costa, all the republicans listening to that thinking your republican nominee for president. go to cleveland with that feather in your hat, right? >> but it comes back to this core point about trump that he's not running as the nominee of the conservative party, he's running as the nominee of the republican party. nonideological candidate. he has friendships and associations across party lines. this has really jarred leaders in washington. they don't know what to make of it. i think katty kay's point about britain is provocative. you think of david cameron

leaving now. came in as modernizer, change the party, but he was close to the business community in london. it's a lot like the republican party in the united states, paul ryan and others. they are trying to modernize the party but still remain the pro business party and that allows someone who likes hillary clinton, the celebrity, connecting on trade and populism to waltz in and take control. >> gene, chris cillizza just said the jeb bush test, would jeb bush survive? no, he wouldn't. would any candidate in the republican party survive giving to the democratic nominee three times, saying she would ab great president. or likewise would anybody in the democratic party survive if they had said that in 2008 about a republican? yeah, a republican? >> no, there's no way. >> it's crazy. >> it simply wouldn't happen. but as we know, the normal rules of politics -- certainly not all of them apply to donald trump.

none of them apply to donald trump. >> none of us really seriously believe this is going to have much impact with his base. >> exactly. it's going to kind of roll off. to one other of chris cillizza's points. i think in the sense hillary clinton's numbers didn't go up when donald trump's wen down, so i think today is critical for her, really, as we see her and bernie sanders together. presumably we have an endorsement. how full throated is it and what impact does it have on bernie sanders people who are not yet enthusiastic. >> chris cillizza, is that what's holding hillary clinton back? is that why she's staying where she is, because of the bernie supporters? >> it's a piece, i think. i do think, to gene's point, i do think you're going to see a pretty full throated endorsement. i think most of those people will get behind her because they are democrats, number one, mostly, and because donald trump is the republican nominee.

right? in a binary choice if you think a is disqualified from president, you're picking b. i think there is a hard ceiling for her. one of the things always in politics has always been to be in a presidential floor, she has a high floor in a relatively low ceiling. she's going to get 47 no matter who she runs against but can she gets 51 agast someone. again, i think donald trump, just based on who he is, what he has said, the fractiousness in the republican party is uniquely unsuited to run a candidacy against hillary clinton. the way you beat hillary clinton is to make the race 100% about hillary clinton. shine the light on e-mails, the stuff from the '90s, the things she said, the fact people don't trust her. you make that the campaign. you don't make it about tweeting the star of david, defending saddam hussein, banning muslims. you don't make it about you and

i don't know he's p camable of doing that. >> someone is going to get another call from a 212 area code. thank you so much, robert costa. we'll see you in cleveland. >> sounds good. still ahead on "morning joe," the big ruling out of virginia about delegates and how it could affect donald trump at the convention. hallie jackson joins us live from cleveland and lieutenant general michael flynn reportedly vetted by donald trump for vice president. we'll be talking to him when "morning joe" returns. americans are buying more and more of everything online. and soany businesses rely on the united states postal service to get it there. because when you ship with us, your business becomes our business. that's why we make more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. the united states postal service. priority: you

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a victory for trump forces, maybe just a symbolic victory. ruled, quote, unconstitutional burden on the first amendment rights. republican delegate brought the case to the courts earlier this month arguing he should be able to vote his conscious. it's unclear it's going to have any impact on the convention or trump's presumptive nomination as it has no direct bearing on

party rules. the court left that up to the party how they run their own conventions. that ruling comes a week ago. nbc correspondent hallie jackson. hallie, get us up to date. >> reporter: hi, guys, let's talk about a couple of things. let's start with that ruling, virginia delegate. he's framing it as a victory. as a practical matter this will only apply to a small number of virginia delegates, or a portion of them, which is why you're seeing republican national committee, trump, too, coming out framing this as a victory for them. everyone trying to claim a little success coming out of this. in fact, i just got a phone call from a contact in the campaign, a source saying, listen, this is not going to change anything, this idea of unity in the gop is overblown. that said, there's push back on that. you've got ben sasse, senator from nebraska who has been a leader of never trump, coming out with media post that and to urge delegates to fight for the

conservative principles they believe in, many saw it as a veiled reference he would back a clause this week to try to get trump off the ticket. it is a very unlikely possibility. and as trump folks will point out, they have no candidate, nobody to put forward. it's incredibly unlikely anything will come out of it if there's success out of it but there's not to say there's a movement or among some there's a perception they want trump out of here. here in cleveland we're looking ahead not just to the rules mmittee fight, discussions on the platform but also to next week when trump's vice president, his running mate will speak. who will it be? we've had audition, chris christie yesterday, mike pence of indiana will be announcing trump at his rally. he's down to the final four. he's got a short list. he said he would decide and announce by the end of the week. >> nbc's hallie jackson, thank you so much. speaking of possible vice

presidential contenders, retired general michael flynn, served as director of defense and intelligence agency from 2012 to 2014. he's got a new book out called "the field of fight, how we can win the global war against radical islam and its allies." it is out today. general, a very busy big week for you because of this book. other things, timing, swirling around as well. >> a year ago when i sat down with the publishers at mcmillan, i picked this date because i wanted the book cocoa out before both conventions, not having any idea -- i had not met mr. trump at that point in time. it's an important message in this book, something i deeply believe. >> we're going to get to that message in a min. obviously a lot of people looking at you as a possible vice presidential pick for donald trump. would you accept if he asked you

and what do you think the biggest challenge would be for trump and your self if you guys got elected? >> first of all, he an unbelievable honor. i never thought in my wildest imagination as a kid growing up in the state of rhode island, a small town, that i would be in this place today. i think, i believe strongly, that our economy is the greatest threat to our country and frankly to the world right now based on just the things that are happening, and i firmly believe that. there are other major threats, national security threats we face. i wrote about one of those. i deeply believed it in the book. there are other things happening around the world. russia and china just signed a big deal over in the shanghai cooperation organization. these are things that are happening that nobody is paying attention to and i think we have to pay attention to those things. they are going to affect the way

our country goes. and i think the direction of the country right now is not going in the right direction. if i could, in your last segment, mr. robinson, he made a great point about this, this sort of underlying shift that's going on in this country right now, it's both economic, jobs, but also a demographic shift. i think mr. trump would figure on is this business about illegal immigration. we have to understand what is happening in this country. so i'm a guy that as i have said, i'm from -- i grew up in a democratic family but i believe that the democratic party is nowhere near to what i learned about when i was a kid growing up. it's not close to that, joe. we have a big shift going on in this country and will continue. i personally believe that a guy like donald trump has put his finger on it. and you know, what that -- the bubble that exists around

washington, d.c., and maybe wall street and places like hollywood, they can't see outside of that bubble the rest of the country. what's in between. >> right. >> gene, since we had a good point, we'll give you the next question. >> you mentioned the u.s. economy. you've said that's the biggest threat. but in fact, the u.s. economy is doing better than anybody else's economy and the world that's interconnected. do you have a solution? do you have policy you'd like to propose that would get the economy going. >> i don't have anything sitting right here today in 30 seconds, but i will tell you that we have to understand that there's two things that drive -- i want it to continue to drive the world for a long time. maybe 100 or 200 years if we can make this country last that long. the u.s. dollar is the currency of choice for the planet and the english language is the language of choice for global commerce.

those are critical. we have to understand that all the things that are happening, particularly with china and the chinese economy and what they are looking at, these are big tectonic shifts, as you implied in the last segment there, about the shifts, these undercurrents going on in this country. we have to understand there's something happening. i've studied these things as an intelligence officer for a long time, particularly over the last 10 years as i've looked at the threats we face around the world. >> have you had conversations with donald trump that gave you confidence he could pass that bar. jeb bush didn't think he met that threshold as command are in chief. do you as someone from the military think he's qualified as commander in chief. >> first of all, the people in that establishment, they need to check their egos. they need to check their egos. in trump's case -- i met with donald trump almost a year ago,

the latter part of last summer. i found him to be an incredible listener. what i look for is the ability to ask really tough, smart questions. the conversation we had, which was basically about the world, what's going on around the world, i think it was to give him a sense that his framework, his frame of mind was in the place where he just needed some reinforcement, i think, the first time i met him. i wanted to know, are you serious. to me i walked away from the conversation, this is a guy very serious. this is a guy that talks about winning. he obviously made it through the crucible over the last year. i think that i do honestly believe that we need a new direction in this country and i think the american public, for the most part, are out there and that's what they want. >> mike barnicle. >> we've been at war for 15 years. >> persistent conflict. we can't afford to keep doing

it. >> the american military, members of the military and their families have paid a shattering price in terms of deployment after redeployment. how do we combat an ideology today with all sorts of freelance operatives in many states around the world, nonstate actors. >> i think one of the things i address in the book, it's a big part of it, is the ideology, discrediting the ideology. as you well know, as all of us sitting here know, we discredited the ideology of communism. it took us 40 years to do that. we discredited the idea of naziism. it took us a long time but also took quite a bit of time, three, three and a half years in combat. we cannot withstand or sustain more of this persistent conflict. we have got to get what i call for in this book is a sort of a new 21st century alliance. part of that alliance are muslim

leaders around the world, and there are some specific ones i call out in the book, that we have to get them to stand up and be counted, because this islamic ideology is a political ideology built on a religion. it's a political ideology built on a religion. >> how do you get saudi arabia to jump in with us. >> we have to place a different set of demands on the leaders of the arab world, muslim world. there has to be what i would call reciprocity. you want something from us, we're going to ask you to do something, you know, for us as well. >> are they not doing that now? >> i don't think so. i don't think we have that kind of give and take right now. and i think that -- in fact, i know we need to do more demanding. this is not the foreign policy we have. this is tough diplomacy we need. >> west will not discredit radical ideology of isis, will

they? it's up to muslims? >> i think we have to help lead that effort, joe, because it's a struggle for them. it's a struggle for them. these countries know, they know they are failing. they know it's going to come back to bite them in the rear end. they are having the dammedest time in their country to do this. they have to come together -- i have sort of called it a nato-like muslim alliance. the united states has to be part of that. my recommendations are not a lot about military stuff. there's always a military component but that's a lower case m. it's tough diplomacy, strong use of our information capabilities and definitely our economic strength. but that economic strength is not like it used to be and we have to make sure we understand that. >> thank you so much, general, we greatly appreciate it. it's called "field of fight" out today. are you going to take a copy to donald trump. >> i gave him one. read it. read it. >> all right. we will read it.

thank you, sir. >> thank you. >> so great to have you. >> thanks for having me on. still ahead this morning five-time award winning actor bryan cranston played several historic figures on the screen. he says there's another role he would like to take on today. >> played lyndon johnson, real life historical figures. anybody you're thinking about maybe you would like to play? >> i'd like to play donald trump at some point. >> really? >> he's huge. he's this shakespearean character, this serial, tragic, comedic character. who wouldn't want to take a bite out of that. >> working on huge. >> huge. this i can tell you, it is huge. >> bryan cranston will be on the set later this morning. we'll be right back. thank you, general.

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welcome back to "morning joe." author and writer of "new york times" magazine robert draper out with a new feature running in this sunday's issue about donald trump's potential impact on the republican senate majority. robert writes in part, quote, for an at-risk republican senator this fall, to back away from trump is, by extension, to snub his millions of diehard loyalists. the one group of party voters that is sure to show up on november 8th. but to go all in for trump is to take leave of your republican bona fides and embrace life as a trump mini me. a gamble that not a single republican senator up for re-election this fall appears to have a stomach for. it is absolutely a horrid position to be in. i remember the first time i ran, i had a poor guy running away from bill clinton and it never works. you run away from the guy or the woman on the top of the ticket and you always get pounded.

>> you know, joe, it's historically the case if you're a vulnerable congressman or senator you do like to grab onto presidential coattails. lou for if nothing else infrastructure support. we see nothing of that happen here. we don't know trump is going to have a negative determinative effect on the down ballot situation. we do know, though, a couple of things first. no one believes he'll have a positive effect. certainly no office seeker who is a republican is basically saying i'm with trump, certainly not happening. >> certainly not on the level. >> very, very red districts will do that. but vulnerable senators, and there are a number of those, maybe nine or so and six in particular, they are not doing it. the second thing that we know is that at minimum trump is going to cause a day to day aggravation for senators who are in a bubble like kelly ayotte of new hampshire who has done i support but not endorse trump, a

tortured formulation a lot of people adhered to in order to hang onto the trump base but not subscribing to everything he says. it means every time trump says something outrageous they are required to differentiate themselves of the following question is if you're so different from him, why are you supporting him? if you are supporting him, doesn't that mean you're more about your party than your country. >> nicole, it is impossible for a party to do well if the person at the top of the ticket loses by four, five, six, seven points, isn't it? >> absolutely. i think that's why -- i wonder if he found any evidence that the donor class operationlized this idea of supporting republicans running in senate races and house races or even jeb bush position saying i'm going to vote down ticket. it seems like a thing people can say but seems very difficult to operationalize. >> what you do see, nicole, there are groups like american

crossroads that ran anti-obama ads in 2008 and will do that in 2016. they are understood they will be in support of down ballot candidates, essentially wash their hands of trump and there will be no mention of donald trump in the ads. >> will they run against him? attack him as a man, attack the wall. >> no, i haven't seen that yet. priebus, the rnc chair is essentially begging for the sake of party unity for no one to do that. >> what you describe as the paul ryan commander, right, how you deal with donald trump. the only republican senator that has come out, i'm not going to support him. do you think more will follow kirk in illinois? >> i don't. >> do you see more coming out? is there something trump could do or say that could trigger -- >> i asked kelly ayotte, do you see a series of circumstances that would cause you all together to renounce, wash your hands of donald trump? she said no.

i think they feel like they simply have to heed -- in new hampshire there's a strong constituent base that went for trump. he won the primary in double digits. mark kirk in an ambiguous situation, ambiguously blue state. no republican senator has held that state for two terms since percy in 1995. >> how is kirk doing? >> right now his own internal polls show him down by three. he is being outfunded at this point. the concern, i think, for a lot of these people is that no matter what kirk does, no matter what ayotte does, trump will so disturb people, they will pull the lever. no republican will differentiate themselves will be vulnerable to that. >> with normal candidates at the top of the ticket you find senatorial, congressional saying, okay, not my cup of tea but i'll ride the coattails, get out the vote operation but there

seems to be no mechanical get out the vote on behalf of trump right now. how is that going to impact these people? >> greatly. in elections where we're expecting a photo finish. again, one of the people i focu was kelly. he is running against the governor there and the expectation is it will be a margin of error there. what could make the difference could be get out the vote efforts and historically a republican candidate has -- to bring in volunteers. there's no evidence right now that that's realitiy really hap with trump. it has been a ghost town. hillary, by contrast, has an immense anount mount of resourc that state and elsewhere.

that's this thing we know, that at minimum, the infrastructure related coat tails related to a candidate don't seem to be there at all. >> all right. thank you so much. we will be reading your piece in the upcoming issue of the new york times magazine and look forward to seeing you in cleveland or whatever county. >> about seven down tips away, could be canada. >> don't worry, there's a shuttle bus. >> senate republicans. >> everything happens on that shuttle bus. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll be talking kamala harris. "morning joe" is right back. irle credit card. hold on...you only got double miles on stuff you bought from that airline? let me show you something better. the capital one venture card.

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chicken our fish, as obama said. >> what should i do? >> you need to sort it out yourself. if you have a different way to approach this and it's a choice for you. >> kplacommander in chief choic what is your choice? chicken our fish? >> he is a vegetarian.

he says bush needs to suck it up and pick one of the two. you're one of those fancy guys. >> it's a choice. >> jeb bush said he would be worried. >> sadlied, crooked hillary clinton is the secretary of the status quo. where ever hillary clinton goes corruption and scandal follow. look at her life. our country needs change. she will never give us change, never ever ever. >> donald trump calls hillary clinton weak and declares himself the law and order candidate. abdomen two studies are looking at whether racial bias

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good morning. it's tuesday, july 12th. mika has the morning off. we have former communication director for george w. bush, nicole wallace and katty cay and

washington columnist, al hunt. we have so much to talk about as far as a lot of polls out. the race is changing by the moment. speaking politics, let's talk about what's happening in britain. you think it's crazy here. >> you think it's crazy here? try our politics at the moment. david cameron is packing his bags as we speak. the person who is going to replace him, may, has been in charge of our homeland security. you'll like her. >> i heard she is a moderate. >> she is more of a conservative. she voted to stay in the european union and has to leave the campaign to use it. our campaign is mad.

>> it is mad. and he was telling you why he was not going to vote in november. talk about how jeb was and sort of the temperature there regarding the republican party. >> yeah, he didn't arrive at the decision to vote for neither hillary clinton or donald trump easily but he is not going to move off of it. he is completely hardened in his opposition to trump. he is completely hardened in his openness. i pressed him on whether or not he would consider hillary clinton as choice and just the commander in chief question and he said the way she handled her e-mails is equally disqualifying. >> what about the american peoples indictment? you have washington post abc news poll.

56% of americans think comey made a mistake. only something like 35% of americans think she shouldn't have been indicted. that's a plus 21. it was a staggering number to me, not that i didn't think comey messed up i just didn't think so many americans agreed with it. it will have an impact. >> maybe ratings are better than we thought for the show. the numbers surprise me too. i have to say, when nicole and i were talking about jeb bush last night. you know, the i can't vote for either one absolutely drives me crazy in a man who ran for president. he wanted to be president of the united states. they have to make decisions where they think they have two bad alternatives. they can't just say i'm not going to decide. he should decide. >> got to make a decision.

>> and i can't let this pass. we had when we came in the discussion on whether things were horrible, we were falling off a cliff. it was 1968. we had a discussion last week about this. i saw a lot after the horrors of dallas and baton rouge and minneapolis that showed me this weekend that we weren't as divided as people thought. i saw a lot of people on the left reaching to the center. i saw a lot of people on the right doing the same. of course there will be the loud mouths that make a lot of money by tearing us apart but this isn't 1968 is it? >> no. it's not 1968. these conventions won't be chicago in 1968. i was in chicago in 1968. the biggest difference i think, my perception of it is, there's no one like robert kennedy standing up. there's no one in our political

leadership who can lower the collective flame in this country. we have seen horrendous violence, horrendous violence in dallas last week. there are also institutions that do not respond, schools that don't help kids, hospitals that aren't available in too many urban areasareas, violence of institutions that don't respond are equally dangerous as the violence that occurs at the end of a pistol. >> and again, we don't have that unifying figure, like you said. the president, on this issue -- >> he is the man. >> -- has struck a tone. he is hammered by people on both sides. people on the left don't think he is criticizing people enough and people on the left think he is criticizing people too much. i thought at least over the past year or two he tried to go down

the middle but it's never enough. >> one thing that is different from 68 in terms of the heat of the conversation is the media landscape and that is driving up the heat on both the left and the right. >> that's right. >> you didn't have that in '68. >> and i was not referring to the president of the united states. he is the man on this. he has been tremendous on this at every point. >> but you're not seeing it from the candidates. >> no. i don't expect to either. >> a lot of news still on this. last night hundreds turned out to remember the ambush on police in dallas. funerals set for tomorrow and thursday. president obama will speak at an interfaith memorial service. he will travel with the vice president and the vice president's wife.

laura bush and george w. bush will be there as well. donald trump spoke yesterday in virginia. he delivered a policy speech following expanded private options for health care. issues for policing played heavily in the speech as well as trump presented himself as the law and order candidate. >> the police are needed the most where crime is the highest. politicians and activists who seek to remove police or policing from a community are hurting the poorest and most vulnerable americans. it is time for our hostility against police and against all members of law enforcement to end and end immediately, right now. we must discuss as well the ongoing catastrophe of crime in our inner cities, our cities

cities. violent crime increased in cities across america. the new york times described the startling rise in murders in our major cities. brutal drug cartels are spreading their reach into virginia and maryland. too many americans are trapped in fear, violence and poverty. our inner cities have been left totally behind and i'm going to fight to make sure every citizen of this country has a safe home, a safe school and a safe community. we must maintain law and order at the highest level or we will cease to have a country 100%. we will cease to have a country. i am the law and order candidate. not only am i the law and order

candidate but i'm also the candidate of compassion, believe it. >> al hunt, we were talking about 1968 -- talking about echoes of 1968, the law and order candidate, richard nixon and now donald trump trying to grab that. >> and he really inflamed a great deal of it. i haven't met a lot of politicians that want to remove police from communities. there is criticism from some corners but i find very few people who want to take the police out of communities. i think if the racial tensions become more inflamed clearly donald trump is one who might take advantage of that. i think the difference between now and '68 is there was war back there, there is moral rans.

that's not to say there's not tensions today. that's not to say that dallas and louisiana and minnesota last week don't point to a serious problem. i think the parallels from '68 are a bit off. >> nicole, you take a look at the message he delivered. this seems to go to the same group of voters he was talking about. >> well, and even more, i think the way he handled himself since thursday is -- you know, and this is the whole conundrum but this reaches a broader swath, the one that he needs. women make up the largest sort of part of independent voters. now, the pattern has been to do so for a few days, to stick to

script for a few days and then stand audiotaup comedian when h behind the podium. i think he strung together three our four very solid days. >> yes. i certainly -- >> you know, he is not ranting and raving. >> and clinton didn't get indi t indicted. >> you know, just in terms of what he actually said, to compare it to '68, look at the crime rate now. it is way down, more than a third, almost a half. there is no comparison at all. it's a different time. the real -- one of the real tragedies of this happening in dallas is that dallas is a city

where police reforms were working. >> yeah. >> david brown became police chief. it is down by two-thirds of police shootings. there were 23 in 2012 and there was one so far this year. community policing, knowing your community, deescalating. >> could it be scaled across the country what he is doing? >> what difference could it have? it is not some little city. we are not talking burlington, vermont. >> and they speak to it a little but about how complex it is. you have many cities where the cops can't afford to live in the cities. they live 35 miles away from the

places they patrolme. you have a similar aspect in the sense that there's an isolation in inner cities. you can go blocks without finding a good grocery store. you can go blocks without finding a decent drugstore. that's similar to 1968. >> and i want to clarify we all think that burlington is a real city. we love you burlington, vermont. >> i love burlington too. i don't know if it's a real city. okay. there is a lot of new polling in the 2016 white house race. donald trump is gaining back some of his losses against clinton this week. clinton ahead 47 to 44%. clinton at 40% to 38%.

johnson climbs into the double digits at 11% and jill stein is at 6%. the new poll of college educated voetders show clinton with a 22 point lead, 54 to 32% in the bloomberg politics purple slice poll. and among white voters clinton has an 11 point lead. no candidate has won college degrees since 1963. >> let's take 2012 as a base.

if a candidate wants to do better than last time he or she has to do well in most groups. i think trump has to do almost as well as romney did and do better among white working class. these are college educated whites. mitt romney carried it by 14 points and he is losing it by 11. every time i look at one of these slices it makes some other sur vais more questionable. i don't see where trump is making up those votes. today is the day sanders will feenlly endorse hillary clinton or is it? we'll have more for you. you're watching "morning joe." you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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welcome back. three people are dead in michigan after a man opened fire in a courthouse as he tried to escape custody. 44-year-old gordon was being brought in for a hearing yesterday at the st. joseph facility and grabbed a gun from an officer. he shot and killed two bailiffs. two other people were also hurt. rick snyder called for support following this layetest inciden for violence. >> i ask that irch try to be supportive of law enforcement in a difficult case like this. >> it brings a number of law enforcement officers shot in the line of duty to 27 this year up

from 16 a year ago. in the search for answers to the questions of race and the excessive use of force interesting and provocative data has risen including this analysis from a harvard economics professor. he noted the fbi statistics noted 31.8% of individuals shot by police are african american and 28.9% are african american of those arrested. the numbers are out of proportion and points out that the percentage of arrest and percentage of shootings isn't biassed. another study could find no racial bias. it focused on more than 1,300

shootings in ten police departments in texas california and florida. the study was conducted by the youngest african american to receive tenure at harvard who called it the most surprising result of his career. in other studies blacks were 17 more likely to have police officers put their hands on them, 18% more likely to be pushed into a wall. 16% more likely to be handcuffed, 19% more likely to have an officer draw a weapon on them, 18% more likely to be pushed to the ground and 24% more likely to have a weapon pointed at them and 25% more likely to have pepper spray used

on them. >> this is the second new york times article that shows when it comes to actual shootings there is not the bias that i think most of us suspect there has been if you look at the data. gene robinson, you look at every other area, though, there obviously is clear bias. >> and these numbers surprise me. it's a study i would love to see replicated. i would love to see some back up. i find it hard to comport with the reality that we see. if you look qualitatively at this incidents that we have seen over the last few years, it's difficult to find payrosituatio where whites have been killed like running away from the

police officer in charleston or even like what we have seen in the last couple of weeks. so -- >> do you think -- is it possible that those incidents are happening? a white suspect runs away and gets shot by police and it doesn't come to public attention in the way that it does when a black suspect is running away or do you think it's just not happening? >> look at what happened yesterday at the michigan courthouse. >> right. >> so here is a suspect that shoots two, you know, bailiffs in a courthouse, right? immediately it is a huge story. everybody is thinking this and that. it was a big deal and it turns out to be a white suspect. it kind of recedes. >> first of all i got a headache reading it. i had trouble following it actually. one of the problems with studies like that is it takes our eye

off the ball. i mean we refer to studies instead of the reality. the reality is police departments in major cities have been forced over the last 10 to 15 years have been urban replicas of the marine corp. every societal change, let the chief handle it. the other aspect is that gene has a son. i have three sons. i never had to tell my sons when they were 14 or 15, remember, keep both hands on the wheel when you get pulled over, act respectfully. i never had to do that. >> i have one friend that has one white son and one black son. when his white son goes out he

knows he will come home. when his black son goes out he is not so sure he will come home. we'll be back in just a moment. proud of you, son. ge! a manufacturer. well that's why i dug this out for you. it's your grandpappy's hammer and he would have wanted you to have it. it meant a lot to him... yes, ge makes powerful machines. but i'll be writing the code that will allow those machines to share information with each other. i'll be changing the way the world works. (interrupting) you n't pick it up, can you? go ahead. he can't lift the hammer. it's okay though! you're going to change the world. hei don't want one that's had a big wreck just say, show me cars with no accidents reported

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to be quite honest, i'm running on fumes. many of you asked for interviews. i tried to nicely ignore you. i hope you understand my brain is fried. i am a person of faith. i believe i'm able to stand here and discuss this with you is a testament to god's grace and sweet tender mercies, to be quite honest with you. what we are doing, what we are trying to accomplish here is above challenging. it is -- we are asking cops to do too much in this country. become a part of this solution, serve your communities. don't be a part of the problem. we are hiring. we're hiring. get off that protest line and put an application in. we'll put you in your

neighborhood and we'll help you resolve some of the problems you're protesting about. >> that was dallas police chief david brown. >> speaking about the toll felt by america with us now from san francisco, kamila harris. respond to those powerful words. >> i know him. i know the work of the dallas pd. i think he touched on a really important thing. we need to speak truth. this is a moment in time where our country needs to heal. a path towards that is a path of speaking truth. it is a myth to say that the black communities, poor communities don't want law enforcement. they do. they don't want excessive force. they don't want racial profiling

but they do want support. as we go forward it will be about understanding that truth is also the path towards trust. trust is a reciprocal relationship. it is something all of us take and give. as we go forward i think the truth is going to also be a function of transparency and that means opening up our system and talking about what is actually going on in the system and confronting the realities of the history and where we are now but also embracing where we can be. >> attorney general, this is gene robinson. >> hi, gene. >> hi. how do you have that conversation? everyone is sort of hunkered down in his or her own corner. how do you have that conversation? >> i think we have to really reject false choices. you know, all communities want safety.

and so let's start from that place. all communities want that their children can walk down to the park and be safe. all which you kncommunities wan. i know that as a career prosecutor. here is another thing i know, as someone i spent my entire life working shoulder to shoulder with police officers. i don't know a cop that has not left their home at the beginning of a shift with a silent prayer that they come home at the end of their shift. as a black woman i don't know a black man, family member, colleague that has been an -- of racial profiling. let's not be defensive about this. >> afterwards some of the founders of the black lives matter movement were critical, particularly that they should get off the protest lines and

join the police force. they felt he was being naive or dismissing their concerns on the protest lines. what was your reaction to that specific call of his? you know, i'll tell you in my experience. my parents were exactive in the civil rights movement. that's what inspired me. it was about people being a voice and a voice for the voiceless and vulnerable. i this also what is or not is that everyone should think of themselves as being a part of

it. it is an entity that receives trust. to get to that place we all have to work on that. that includes law enforcement, taking on the responsibility to earning the trust. i think transpair si -- knowledging that when it happens there should be serious and severe and swift consequence and accountability. >> so general, after knowledging all acknowledging all of that, what do we do about the isolation of communities of color and police? fresno, riverside, south central l.a., you can go blocks without

finding a decent grocery store, the schools as good as the schools in santa monica, hospital care that is easily reachable and then the police. we tell police there were all sorts of horrific issues, you handle it. what do you do about cops that are isolated from a community that we all live. >> this is not a mo-- there is extreme economic divide. there is a history of a lack of opportunity for economic suck susz. those are things we have to deal with. let's talk about what we need to do. i wrote a book years ago. we need to be smart on crime. we have to reyeks to notion.

it means not only reacting to crime after it occurred but before it occurs. to that point, part of prevention, you no, i, nothikno stops a bullet like a job. let's look at what we are doing in terms of educating or not educating the children. let's support the parents of the children and understand if you want to help those children help in the where they are being waged. paid family leave, what are we doing around affordable child care. let's bu still ahead, bernie sanders expected to finally endorse hillary clinton this morning, finally. we'll see. we'll bring in hunt with the

latest reporting. we discussed about how this mirrors what was going on in the 1960s. coming up we'll have brian when we return. . ♪ i like the bride more than the groom. ♪ turquoise dresses... so excited. did all her exes get invited? no ones got moves like uncle joe. ♪ when it's go book on choicehotels.com for instant rewards like gifcards, plus savings of up to 20%. book direct at choehotels.com you only earn double miles when you buy stuff from that airline. wait...is this where you typically shop? you should be getting double miles on every purchase! switch...to the capital one venture card. with venture, you earn unlimited double miles

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uh, do you get your fees back if you're not happy? (dad laughs) wow, you're laughing. that's not the way the world works. well, the world's changing. are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed? wealth management, at charleseschwab. >> reporter: you listening to me? >> that's not an answer that keeps you alive, my friend. >> what are you saying that for? >> did he threaten you? >> yeah. and he is squeezing. >> it is es kcobar. >> are you in danger if the money doesn't come through?

>> that's a scene from the ill f filtrater. it shows him going deep under cover to expose pablo escobar. with us now the man who portrays him in the film, brian cranston. this really looks pretty extraordinary. >> yes. bob is a very noble man. a police officer went under cover and ill filtratinfiltrate cartel. he comes home and he is a father and helping the kids with homework and doing normal things. that really got my interested in

playing this guy. >> i covered columbia during the years of pablo escobar. how this project manage to capture that feeling of -- >> movie magic. of course we are pretending to be in that. as i say, bob is like an actor in that he has to slip in and really believe himself and make others believe that he is a money launderer for the mob. if he does not do his job well he could be killed. if i don't do my job well i don't get hired again or we do a takeover again. bob maizer and her colleagues were the ones that really came through. >> an undercover operative, he

goes home at night with his family and a different person during the day. how do you do that? how do you become two different people as one person? >> for 37 years i have been making a living at this. so slipping into someone else's shoes and taking on their characteristics is not a muscle that is not used. you know what i mean? that part wasn't difficult. what was difficult was to get the sensibility of being under cover and the pressure intention that that must be. every night when he drove home he drove home on a different lo route. he had to make sure he was not being followed. that kind of tension was hard to live with. >> why don't we bring in robe robert mazer. we have been asked not to show

his face and alter his voice. bob, thanks for being with us. if he screws up his acting job he gets another take and if you screwed up you didn't go home at night. talk about the extraordinary pressure you were under and how you managed to do it for so long. >> i was really fortunate. i had a lot of great trainers that supported me through the under cover school and about a year and a half to set up this operation before i even stepped on stage. i felt like i was really prepared in order do that. i had a tremendous amount of support throughout the operation. i like this thing of being a quarterback on a football team. i had a great oftenive lifensiv. i got carried across the line. it wasn't one of these

individual operations. unfortunately i didn't get to go home every night. >> i was going to say, he gets to go home at night. you are where you are. >> i am not that familiar with the project and i don't want to give anything away but was your involvement with pablo escobar's death or before that? >> before that. i was dealing with his principal reports, the people that he was hands-on managing. the operation ended -- the takedown was where a lot of people from the cartel as well as from the bank that we infiltrated ended that. i think one of the major operations was lifting the veil of the intentional involvement of an international bank that

marketed the underworld. i think it was more notable than the accomplishments of getting inside the cartel. >> talk about being an under cover agent. that's your job and you go home. most people go home and say how was your day, honey? what did you do in response to questions like that? >> it certainly got stressful in the one-third of the operations. i might be gone far month and come home far day or so. that day was more disruptful to our relationship than if i didn't come home. my wife suggested that i just get this job overwith and stay there until it was over. it is for every long-term under cover. it's what i was told when i first walked in, you have to be

prepared to normal reactions to an abnormal reaction. the stress is probably greater from a family perspective than it is when you're dealing with the bad guys! thank you so much robert mazur for being here. we are indebted to you for your sacrifice. >> thank you. so brian, extraordinary real-life role. so many of us have seen you with l.b.j. sort of doing what biographers do. you totally immerse yourself. a guy who is extraordinarily fascinating, what was your take away from lbj, a guy who passed some of the most passing civil rights laws but could be one of the toughest, crassest

politicians on the scene? >> i think we learned that no human being is ever one thing. there is a plet ra and you can be a politician and perhaps not politically or socially adequate. >> you couldn't be the best person. we saw a clip from the today show. you talked about trump being shakespearean. what is more shakespearean than that? >> he also had a tremendous sense of insecurity. he rode that roller coaster up and down to some times tragic ways but other times great accomplishments. >> in the lbj series, it is on

tv. this is a big screen movie. talk about how the whole businesses changing this, so much great stuff now on tv. you have done both. >> yeah, it's just story telling. you want to follow the well-written word. whether it takes you to television, breaking bad or to the stage where i did all the way here in new york or to a feature film, it really doesn't matter to me as much as finding where that best story is. if you take a look at breaking bad, it would have made a terrible movie. you would have been cheated. i think you take a look at your story and assess what's the best medium for this story? >> did getting inside, did it

change how you on aev politics in realtime? you know, it seems to me that in his times there was much more cooperation that he would have dinner with those on the opposite side of the aisle. the next day when you're trying to hammer out a bill you're hesitant to throw that guy you just had dinner with under the bus and point the finger at him. right now it seems like everybody is entrenched and arms folder. >> not enough drinking. >> it has got to be more drinking. >> there we go. we solved the problems of washington right there. thank you so much. it's great to see you again.

thank you so much. coming up, is today the day? will bernie sanders at long last endorse hillary clinton. that's coming up. keep it right here. there's a lot of money to be made. but first, investors must ask the right questions and use the smartcheck challenge to make the right decisions. you're not even registered; i'm done with you! i can...i can... savvy investors check their financial pro's background by visiting smartcheck.gov ♪ ♪

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welcome back. the democratic presidential race between clinton and sanders could wrap up today. sanders will be joining clinton where he is poised to endorse the secretary of state. let's bring in kasie hunt. what are we going to hear? >> well, katty, it took long enough certainly. his challenge today is going to be convincing a lot of his supporters that he actually has real conviction in backing hillary clinton while at the

same time trying to tell them as he already tweeted, to keep up the fight. progressive groups have been lining up over the last 24 hours. for democrats, it gives them a chance to show they are unified. it allows clinton to picking her vice president, doing all of that as republicans head into the convention which could be, of course, potential. disunity there, katty. >> thank you. time to talk about what we learned today. what did you learn? >> i learned it is difficult to choose between sad and worried, fish and chicken but i think jeb bush should pick somebody to work for. >> i learned gene robinson is tough. >> he is tough. >> you have to make a decision as clinton or trump. >> what did you learn? >> i learned jeb bush has the same knnobility as his father

dichltd i thought he was more open yesterday than he was on the trail. >> and i will leave it there and agree with you. thanks for being with us. stephanie picks up our coverage right now. good morning. i'm stephanie. overnight america torn between protests. our pride is still there. we are retaining our respect and we'll continue to go forward. >> president obama and bush speak at a dallas memorial as the parents of the shooter speaks out. >> i didn't see it coming. >> he was a good son. he was a good son. >> new information immerges in the police shootings that started it all. police audio in the