that's all for us tonight. we'll bring you the president's comments following his meeting with police activists coming up as soon as we get they will. "all due respect" starts now. >> with all due respect to donald j. trump, your search for a running mate becomes kind of confusing. maybe even to you. >> i'm narrowing it down. i'm at three, potentially four. but in my own mind, i am probably thinking about two. >> three, two, one, here we go. it would not be the veep stakes season without some dramatic twists and turns. today donald trump took his showmanship to new and dramatic

heights by moving his running mate surge to of all places, here in indiana where i am doing this program tonight from indianapolis which has become the center of the universe for trump veep stakes. in the state capitol today at the governor's residence, trump and his oldest children had breakfast at the home of one of his top contenders, mike penalty, who was at a rally north of here last night. wasn't just about pence today. as trump's decision loom with the friday announcement, they came to the hoosier state for their own last-minute huddles with the candidate at the hotel. the candidate also called chris christie today said to be a finalist as well. if you're at all confused about where trump stands on this, don't worry. the candidate cleared it up today. >> the level i've had here is

incredible. and the governor has been amazing. so we'll see what happens. newt gingrich is coming in today to see me here. >> basically down on two. >> no. chris christie is somebody i've liked a long time. he is a total professional, a good guy. a lot of people don't understand that. but i'm narrowing it down. i'm at three, potentially four. but in my own mind, i probably am thinking about two. >> so john, i've been on the ground all day trying on follow bouncing ball from indianapolis, from where you are in cleveland. where whoever trump chooses for the nomination next week. where does it stand? >> well, i think after all the drama of 28 the pence warning where we all thought, wow, maybe pence is just the guy. then we learned that sessions and gingrich were on the way to indiana. that the family had met with christie earlier. that christie was on the phone

today. i think we're not that far from where we were 24 hours ago when we talked about it on the show. i believe we have a short list now. and the short list is three people, gingrich, christie, pence, and maybe sessions. but it doesn't seem like there is much to go on there even though he is there with you in indiana. so a short list of three and trump doing final gut checks on who he wants to run with. >> i think sessions is being done largely as a courtesy. i think the other three are somewhat in play. the thing i've been saying i think is still true. a number of trump aides have said at a boy. if he goes with his head, with the safe thing, the thing would unite the conservative movement. the thing would allow him to be at the top of the ticket and not risk a running mate who would cause distractions, he'll go with governor pence. if wegs the people he still feels more comfortable with even after this time with penalty, he'll go with gingrich or christie. one thing we don't know is the

vetting issues. where he is shying away from either christie or gingrich. both have known things that their dossiers that could be distractions. both could be distractions either by had a they say once they're picked or their back grounds. and we don't know how heavily he is weighing it. we know the balance of recommendation by the people around him is weighted more toward pence. >> there is some sense. trump still needing to consolidate support among republicans. still having some trouble doing that with conservatives. pence giving him a good card to may with conservatives. paul ryan today made comment about how he would like to be reassured that trump is a genuine conservative. so you can see the argument there for pence. in the end as you know, the question of a candidate. a nominee. looking into the eyes of who he would not just be putsing on the

ticket as a cohort on the road in a campaign setting but also who they would like the govern with if they become president of the united states is a huge thing. that gut check really matters. he doesn't seem like a guy afraid of distractions on me on the base you of how he's campaigned. so maybe the distraction factor won't matter so much and he'll say screw it. i want to be with christie, with gingrich. they're more my kind of guys. >> i think he like it's his own distractions. this shows the closeness to his family. the very public way his family is involved with this decision. something i've never seen at this level. >> new details are out this hour about the lineup at the upcoming democratic convention in philadelphia. elizabeth warren, michelle obama, bernie sanders, all expected to speak on monday night. the first night at the convention. two nights later, president obama will take stage. that is all he know. amazingly, it is a hell of a lot more than the republican

convention which starts in cleveland in just five days. reports are that trump's family will play a big part. after nearly a week of daily promise that's the full convention schedule will be released, we ain't got it. this comes amid widespread concerns about logistics and security to deal with tens of thousands of demonstrators on the streets of cleveland. he sow mark, considering all of this, how likely do you think it is that the republican national convention will be a total -- >> they are well behind. what is going on behind the scenes. and sliding a convention in a few days. on the other hand this is where the trump operation can defy gravity as long as they fill the time on the stage. as long as stuff happens every day that feeds beast, that keeps the action moving in the room, they'll be okay. it is not that much programming. it is not 24 hours of

programming but it is a high wire thing and they are a little in danger of falling off the wire. >> yes. and look. the big caveat, and i don't think you'll disagree with me when i say this. are the security issues, and what happens on the streets of cleveland. because given what has happened in america over the course of the last week, images of chaos, images of disorder, images that could get worse, that could involve violence, those images could quickly overwhelm anything going on over the course of the next week. if that happens, this could be a mess. not just the television convention but politically for trump and his chances to become the next president of the united states. >> there's not much they can do about it. if this was more band width, they're spending an extraordinary am of time. they could be coordinating with the secret service and the police in a by a gives people more confidence. but picking the speakers is the

first step. you have to then figure out what order they're speaking in. you don't want another clint eastwood situation. so they're taking risk. as i am, this is an area where trump's showmanship and his family may be for what others would be an existential crisis. moving on now. almost a week after the dallas shooting sthat killed five police officers, hillary clinton invoked abraham lincoln's house divided speech with her own plea for national unity in remarks at the old illinois state capital earlier today. her speech which came a day after president obama and president bush spoke, urged americans to fresh difficult work that police do and also called for, quote, ending the systematic racism that plagues our country. then after needing guilty for stoking political tensions, she took aim at her general election

possibly. >> as someone is in the middle of a hotly fought political campaign, i cannot stand here and claim that my words and actions haven't sometimes fueled the partisanship that often stands in the way of progress. so i recognize i have to do better, too. in times like these, we need a president who can help pull us together. not split us apart. and that is why i believe donald trump is so dangerous. he says if he doesn't win in november, we, and again i quote, won't even have a country anymore. america is not going to continue to survive. i do not know what he's talking about. this man is the nominee of the party of lincoln. we are watching it become the

party of trump. and that is not just a huge loss for our democracy. it is a threat to it. >> the clinton campaign painted these in advance as major remarks. clinton's first speaking since donald trump declared himself a couple days running as the law and order candidate. so in the ongoing story about how both candidates have responded to last week's shooting, how did clinton do? >> well, look. what she is trying to do, it seems pretty clear, is to be the candidate if there is an optimistic candidate and a pessimistic candidate, she wants to be the candidate of optimism. guarded optimism. she wants to paint trump as a divider and the kind of apocalyptic rhetoric that is appealing to certain segments but in the end does not generally, in fact i can't think of a time it ever wins an

election. she is trying on put him on the side of dark and her on the side of light. she painted it pretty well from her point of view. it doesn't mean trump's message isn't still powerful but she's staking out some pretty clear ground. >> people talk about how trump won't acknowledge any mistakes and error. and clinton is not too far off. she said her e-mails were a mistake but she didn't say what about it was a mistake. for her to say today, in i thought a heart felt way but always shrewd, tactical way that she has been part of dialogue that might be considered divisive, i think that's smart. i think her argument in the end is he is unreasonable and i'm reasonable and i think that was a pretty big concession to make. let's see if she can keep this tone up. if this is a one off given the veep stakes. i'm not sure the speech will break through for very many voters unless she sustains the shown in the ideas in other high profile venues. >> i have to say. you can't really know the answer in advance but right now,

especially still less than a week away from all the stuff that happened last week in baton rouge and minneapolis and then in dallas, i just sense a lot of people in the country want a unifying figure. not a divisive figure. and that hillary clinton is betting she can be the unifier. >> when we come back, donald trump and his picking up momentum in battle ground state polls. the what, when, where and how. for lower back pain sufferers, the search for relief often leads to this. introducing drug-free aleve direct therapy.

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welcome back. we saw a battle ground state tsunami today that tells a fairly consistent story. donald trump gaining ground on hillary clinton in those battle ground states. new "wall street journal" survey shows trump tied with clinton in ohio where he trailed by 6 points a couple months ago. clinton is still ahead in colorado where a poll has her up

by 14 and in wisconsin by 6. but trump has closed the gap in other states. where in florida, he is ahead by 3 points. it is an 11-point swing from a month ago. yesterday we showed you a poll that showed clinton with a big lead among college educated voters. something that doesn't usually happen for democrats. look at all these polls. ours from yesterday and the ones today. what are the realities and implications that you see of these numbers? >> well, people will have to get used to a difference between national polls and state polls. i think the political reality of the exist tense of these polls is great for trump on the eve of the convention. it allows him to feel like he has momentum. and argue to the delegates where there might be some wavering. this guy can win 270 electoral votes so get in line. for the clinton folks, they're not happy about it.

on another level, they continue to believe their biggest challenge is getting democrats donors, activists, volunteers to believe this is a losable race and to be energized in the way they need them to be to make it a winnable race. >> the other reality seems to be in the case of many of these polls, possibly all. they were conducted in the wake of the comey ruling last week that he was not going on recommend any kind of charges on her over the e-mail controversy and then took her to the woodshed even as he let her off the hook. for some number of voters, it seems comey's criticisms of clinton have sunk in. you can see that in all of these states, virtually all of them, trump has gained some ground. that's the big takeaway here in these battle ground states. we can't tell causation but in terms timing, it seems the comey decision. although sparing her from

prosecution may have taken some temporary toll on her poll standing. >> yeah. and it does show again the causality is a way to unpack it. it is true these polls represent an accurate notion that trump is doing better. if so, the comey thing is a factor. you have to stay press may be overemphasized trump's failure in his speeches to take advantage of the comey thing. it may have happened all on its own and trump's instincts were correct. he didn't need to talk as much about it as his critics said he did to have an impact on the voters. >> you can say if he had driven the message, he would have gotten even more of a bounce from these polls. >> could you argue that. all right. now tom spat ongoing between donald trump and supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg. it continues to gain steam. it has been a few days since she told "the new york times" that she didn't even want to think about the possibility of trump in the white house. talked about maybe moving

overseas. on monday she told the cnn legal analyst that trump was, quote, a faker and called him out for not releasing his tax returns. trump, like many republicans including speaker of the house paul ryan called those comments inappropriate. but only the republican front-runner went as far as to send a midnight tweet about this matter saying, justice ginsburg of the u.s. supreme court has embarrassed all by making very dumb political statements about me. her mind is shot. resign! is it a good idea for trump to pick this fight with the notorious rbg? >> well, i think we can probably agree, i don't know whether we agree but i think we might that it was really unusual for ginsburg to do what she did and probably inappropriate. >> definitely inappropriate. repudiated by some democrats in this partisan period. if a republican justice did that to a democratic candidate --

>> if you let me finish. if you let me finish, i was going to say the same thing. we're on the same beige that. the question is where trump gets much benefit out of attack her the way he's attacking her. i think if donald trump in a sober way were to say what you just said and i just that, everyone in the world, not everyone in the world. everyone in the world who is not homelessly partisan would say donald trump has a point there. to say she has lost her mind? that's a little bit, it is like a child, kids fighting on a school yard. and it plays into the notion trump's temperament may not be that great. he could make the same point without having to attack her personally. ? if you're from a school of thought which is using the court to energize your base, i think it is good for trump even to do hit the way. he just wants to get, to personalize the notion the liberals on the supreme court need to be replaced by

conservatives. and this is going to get attention. it is very hard. both sides try to make the issue. this allows to it glom on. again, probably not appealing to that many people in the center but he has some people on the left criticizing ginsburg and that i think helps his cause. >> i think we should note, it is an incredible fight. something we've never seen before. amazing. just amazing. all right. up next, two all-star strategic master minds. james ragin cajun carville.

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ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible. with us now from chicago, democratic strategist james carville. and from gotham city, anita, we start with you. we want to start with the people on trump's final list. the good and the bad in short about what you think of each prospect. starting first with anita. what do you think of trump picking mike penalty? >> it could certainly help him get indiana. that's the good. he is not exciting. he is not dynamic and he has some real negatives from his time as governor. >> james, what do you think of penalty as choice for trump? >> it is it would help the

democrats win indiana. he can't dear governorship. how will he help trump win anything? >> all right. >> how will he help win the presidency? >> all right. so you guys think expense a bad idea. give me your sense of whether you think christie would be a good choice? >> christie is a good choice for donald trump if the only thing he ever had to do was debate whoever the democrats nominate. he would probably do pretty well. he brings his record. he brings his vet and he brings his personality with him. so i think that outweighs his performance in debates. >> do you think that's right? it seems a debate is a pretty big deal. >> he is something. he crushed marco rubio, the most compelling history of thor presidential debates. there's a lot of down side.

>> it is scaring me that james and i are agreeing this much. >> james, you've had a decade long relationship with your friend, newt gingrich. i'm wondering, whether rejecting the first two sopgss a better choice for trump? >> look. if you took the combined approval ratings in each of the states, georgia and new jersey and indiana, i don't think it would add up to 75. and you know, the republicans had this article today about the deep bench and the talent and how young, and i think this is a reflection of a deeper problem that they have. but you know, gingrich is, you know, an aggressive guy. i guess trump thinks he could attack hillary and give him some slack to do other things. that's what i can think of. >> you know, it is interesting. they actually did have a number of really good potential choices who either announced very early they had no intention of running

with trump or who trump has insulted. suzanne martinez, for example. i think gingrich is someone trump is very comfortable with. we think that's important. i think it is important. but nothing says future like someone who was speaker in 1995. i'm going to guess whether you think jeff sessions, i'm going to guess that neither of you thinks jeff sessions would be a stronger choice than either of first they have we talked about? >> i'm not sure what jeff sessions brings to the table besides trump's ability to say that he has somebody in washington who potentially could help him with the legislature. i'm not sure that would stand up to scrutiny. certainly, senator sessions is someone that trump seems comfortable with as well. he is very partisan.

press the a deep south state that will be competitive. he gives him the ability to say he picked somebody. >> i think if you look at the people that they're talking about, compared to what we were talking about at the beginning of the republican party. if i'm a republican, i have to be sick about this selection. the choices i have for vice president right now. as i would be for president. i think that's obvious. >> okay. more with the country duo of carville and dunn right after this. stay tuned. hey diddle diddle, the cat and the fiddle, the cow jumped over the moon... then quickly fell back to earth landing on the roof of the ca dutch colonial.e moon... luckily geico recently helpedhe residents with homeowners insunce. they we able to get the roof repaired like new. they later sold the cow because they had all become lactose intorant. call geico and see how much you could save on homeowners insurance.

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james carville, last segment, he with talk about trump's veep actions. let's talk about hillary clinton. the kind of conventional wisdom remains tim kaine to lose.

what is another name either out there or should be out there that you think would be a good alternative to kaine if she decides against him. >> i've always been a phaneuf elizabeth warren being on this ticket. i think the excite many of having two women. but also, elizabeth warren is a great campaigner and who connects extremely well of i think it would be a great ticket. >> what is a name you like? >> i would love elizabeth warren salt lake ci warren/chris christie debate. that would be something i would like to see. tom vilsack, the castros. my guess is knowing her, she will be very deliberate, listen to everybody, make up her mind somewhat later. it would be, for elizabeth, if he picks chris christie, please

pick elizabeth warren. that vice presidential debate would be one for the ages. >> james, let me stay with you. if you're thinking about the running mate selection, trying to address a political problem or a as a resulter inability, what is the may not vulnerability that clinton needs to solve? >> if you look across the board, she has to show that she is in it for people as opposed to herself. a lot of, you have a lot of college educated republicans voting for trump so she might want to go in a different direction. i think it is an interesting thing. i don't know if that is a false flag operation or whatever it is. i wouldn't put something like that past her. had she should give it a lot of

consideration. i think it is, as mark knows, the democratic coalition in a presidential year. if you unify it, it is pretty hard to lose a general election. so she can do that with any of the picks, she'll be fine. >> what is your thought about that same question? what problem is she trying to solve? or need to solve? >> she doesn't need to solve anywhere near number of problems donald trump does who needs to solve for experience, ability to get things done in washington, foreign policy knowledge, and basic temperament and qualifications to be president. all of which i think are unsolvable by his vice president. for secretary clinton, she could go with a candidate who is a younger generation who could really send a message about the future and stronger together, diversity. or she could look to someone who could communicate that she really does care about people which i like james believe she

does. and sherrod brown, tim kaine is a terrific guy. fluent in spanish, was in the peace corps. has the qualification that's people look for. at the end of the day, heights does she think should be the vice president based on her knowledge and her belief of who would make a good vice president. she'll make good choice. >> are you giving advice directly or indirectly these days? >> i always give advice. i think she is pretty set on, you know, going through each thing. and i just know her and he know she is going to go through this. i think she is pretty much going to be, she'll listen to anything anyone has to say. one thing that i do think that she needs, having run against both bernie sanders and donald trump, that got a little more in the status quo side than i think

she really is. how can you be more change than donald trump. i think a vice presidential nominee that would send a signal that there is some challenge coming i think would be very helpful. i don't know how that plays out but i think it is something she should consider. >> you talk to a lot of democrats, anita. these battle ground polls that we talked about. the comey announcement and other things. what is your overview about how democrats are feeling about the prospect of possibly losing to trump in this race? >> well, i think polls that are done in july after you've had a significant news event that was negative, not exactly polls that are predictive of what will happen in november. there is a lot of campaigning between now and then. trump was artificially low based on possibly the worst month of campaigning in the history by a presidential campaign. >> i'm sorry. what i'm asking is are people worried in the democratic party?

>> no. i don't think people are worried. i think they understand it will be a close race. we have to go out and winter. we shouldn't be complacent. we shouldn't take it for granted. i think democrats look at trump and think how could that guy ever win in these polls are a weak-up call of it is a tough race. but i don't think people are worried. i think they look at her and they see somebody who can win the debates. have a great convention and basically, head on head against trump, she is going to went. >> james, in the wake of last week, in the wake of louisiana, he know you're really familiar with that state. minnesota and dallas and all the horrors of last week, trump is playing the law and order card. it sounds like 9/11on in 1968. is that had smart politically? >> i was reading before i came on here that he was saying there were people calling for a moment

of silence for that horrific shooter and no one can find any such thing. i final it hard to believe that when people all over the country are unified and concerned about all this, that donald trump is the go-to person. you know i'm an adamant, die hard clinton supporter and die hard democrat. i don't see where he is playing this thing anywhere close to the way the country is looking. 38% of the country agree no matter what? probably so. but i don't see anything that he said would expand that 38% at all. >> we've got a little time left. what do you wonder about the republican convention? >> i wonder is the narrative really going to be. conventions are an extraordinary opportunity to present your story, the way you want to present it. they haven't given us any indication of what that is going to be. so it feels like one of the

greatest opportunities he is ever going to have to present his story the way he wants to present it. the question is, can they rise up to that occasion? can they really use at this time way it should be used? >> okay. anita dunn, james carville, good to talk to you. coming up, we'll talk about the messy rules fight. we'll be back with that. if you're watching us in washington, d.c., you can now listen to us on the radio bloomberg 99.1 fm. t first cup and i wouldn't want to mess with that. but when (my) back pain got bad, i couldn't sleep. i had trouble getting there on time. then i found aleve pm. aleve pm is the only one to combine a sleep aid plus the 12 hour strength of aleve. for pain relief that can last into the morning. ♪ look up at a new day... hey guys!

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months, plus $500 bonus cash. ♪ republican convention rules committee is scheduled to hold its first meeting tomorrow when the never trump dhelgs try to free themselves from the shackles of voting from their party's presumptive nominee. joining me for what could be a pretty ugly rules battle. ben ginsburg. we've been talking about this for what feels like weeks, months. we're finally almost here. it seems like the trump people thought they had this under control until a couple days ago. we're starting to hear they're a little worried. >> i think all of this is a moving target. i think delegates are allowed to change their mind and notoriously unreliable in terms

of giving hard counts at this stage. the nominees are right to worry always and to operate as if the worst could possibly happen. they have a lot of tools. >> if you were looking at this situation about to unfold in the next 24 to 36 hours, what will you be paying attention to to measure how it is going? >> the rules committee meeting tomorrow. the temporary committee of the rnc rules will run through the whole list of them. there are a number of test rules that i suspect folks will bring up to sort of gauge strength. and then there will ultimately be the attempt to amend the current rules to include the conscience clause or the unbinding clause. >> what is propelling things in a worse direction at this point? if things are headed in a worse direction which some rnc officials say is happening.

>> i think it is the uncertainty of things. picking the vice presidential nominee. if it is one that's reassuring to the delegates. one of the things that can move it in the right direction. and the indecision is not helping matters. the fact there is not a convention program yet suggests in a round about way that things are not buttoned up. so i think all those things are contributing to the uncertainty that means when you try to pin down delegates, they're perhaps not rock sol nid what they're saying. or even worse, not answering their felonies their phones. >> if you assume it is one of the four, are those ones delegates will say, wow, they're all excited for running mate x? >> i'm not certain.

i think that each of them appears to a different set of delegates. so it gets sort of tentative at this point. i think each of the four has both the strengths and weaknesses for parts of the delegate pool. the way the republican party picks its delegates is so state by state i haddio since democratic that it makes figuring out which blocks there are of delegates to go with really challenging in a situation like this. >> so even if the trump people win on the rules matters that are in play, it is also possible a minority report could be issued. correct? >> correct. >> that would open up a floor debate. >> correct. >> so how messy could that get? even if they get over the big hurdle tomorrow in terms of not having the rules. how ugly could it be if that minority report gets out there? >> well, arguing a minority report in and of itself is not

necessarily messy. the session runs under the rules of the house. there are minority reports all the time in the house. you put a strict time limit under the rules. probably five minutes aside. even if the rhetoric gets particularly heated on one side or the other. it is still five minutes in that vote. what gets messy about it is the length of time and the roll call procedures for figuring out that vote and it is also some chum in the water for the sharks. if the minority report gets an unusually large number of votes, then there are things to do beyond the conscience clause that will be worrisome to i think the trump whip team. >> much has been made about how some corporate donors are not participating in this convention. some of your fellow republican activists and strategists are not cong, largely because of donald trump. in the end, for a viewer for an

independent or a viewer, is it something not as good in terms of impacting the ticket? >> well, i can speak to the visuals and i think the visuals don't reflect anything different than what has happen in the past. the media coverage is way beyond my control to judge what is actually written and said about that. the one part where not being there will matter is if on the presidential roll call vote, there are a lot of delegates who abstain and don't come into the seats. we haven't talked about. that that's not part of the conscience clause but that's a place where you would see an absence of participation. >> let me ask you a broader question. you participated a hot in conventions, many from inside. just from your slight outsider posture this time, judging the whole thing.

do you think the trump folks, the people running this convention have their act together? >> i think it is very much together. from what i've seen in the mat form committee and the rmc committee today, it is a whip team very well and does have it together. it is unusual as you know from your many years of covering conventions not to have the program done. not to have announced the key note. so that part is unusual. and does not feel like other conventions. >> yeah. okay. that seems like a very even handed analysis by our friend ben ginsberg. he'll be back. and coming up, we'll be back with our reporters' notebooks. we've got that thing! you know...diarrhea? abdominal pain? but we said we'd be there... woap, who makes the decisions around here? it's me. don't think i'll make it. stomach again...send! if you're living with frequent,

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cleveland for more reviewing of

the republican convention next week, the whbloomberg report he. it is great to see the two of you. you report on social justice and all kinds, you're just on topics particularly pertinent of yet. talk about open carry and the haws that pertain in the state and what that might mean for the security situation that the republicans are facing. >> open carry laws in ohio really mean that they can ban stuff like backpack that's are too big or water guns but they cannot actually ban any handguns. they can't ban ar 15s. so anybody coming from around the state, ohio residents can carry those weapons outside. carry them openly in a holster as long as you can see them. they don't need a permit. what you could see is a lot of people with guns and they can have them out loaded or unloaded. a lot of people are worried about it. i wrote a story about people talking about the idea that

after dallas, people are really worried that they'll add to the confusion of an already confusing republican national convention. the passion with donald trump. that's what the law is. that you can have guns out and be visible. >> not just confusion but fear and paranoia. and i know some of the groups planning to protest said yeah. we're coming packing. >> there are groups. the oath keepers is one of those groups. the southern law poverty center describes them as a really extremist militant right group. they say they're there to help protect people, to help the police officers to shoot somebody if things get out of hand. i should say there is a pro trump group having a really big rally on monday and they're saying they're going to try to ban people from carrying long arms in this. those rifles or ar 15s. the problem is it is a little squishy. they do have a permit for the park. they can kick people out. but you can imagine if someone has a holded ar 15 and you're

telling them not to come into the park, that will be really hard. >> mike bender, just talk about your general sense of the trump campaign's relationship now to the rnc. to the delegates in this event. >> yeah, hi, mark. i've been talking on some delegates is that some rnc members working on the platform committee, getting ready for rules coming up. and i'm very excite to be here in cleveland. it is my home town and an exciting time. i'm not getting the same sort of excitement from zpelgs rnc members. particularly the folks putting the platform committee together yesterday. they have no reason to believe that trump is going to be campaigning on any of these issues that they've spent weeks and months assembling. the representative virginia fox was brought to tears yesterday after putting this platform

committee together. and there's just a disconnect here between delegates and the candidate. i talked on some folks who that, we are building our mat form. he is running our campaign and that's the way things will be. not a lot of real excitement there. and asking them about what they like about trump, a lot of folks say, well, he's not clinton. i think that can be an effective political message. i'm not sure how much excitement that reflects. >> talk a little more about the chain of command here. you have secret service, you have a state of law enforcement. you have the city. if violence does break out what happens if you get people actually arrested? >> my sense is that who takes lead the cleveland police department. i am told by several sources including a judge who will be holding court 20 hours a day, that he expects all the arresting documents to be filled

out by the cleveland police officers. he also expects that the officers that will be coming from as far as california or florida, that they will be coming here and understanding that cleveland police department is the lead. that they'll be following their procedures for mass arrests, for accepted force shifl say in this case, the cleveland police department, the department of justice is watching this police department because they were found to be biased and to repeatedly use excessive force stoffel issue is in some case, yes, the locals are in charge but ultimately the doj is watching very closely. >> bender, i want to ask you about delegates, the donald trump folks. what are they thinking right now? do they think they have a chance to get this done? or are they looking for a victory? it is mostly the victory. what they are going to count as a victory, if they can convince people. the education process.

they want to talk about the process. which is that the primaries should be a data point in how they ultimately decide to vote on the floor of the convention. to me an inherent flaw in this argument. it has been from the beginning. if you're not for trump, it seals like you have to be for someone. but they want to talk about the process. they want to talk about how to pull a party together. if it leads to someone other than donald trump, great. but hard to motivate a lot of folks on the process even in cleveland. who will this trump pick? >> gingrich. >> who will he pick? >> i think gingrich, too. >> two gingriches. thank you. we'll be right back.

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you'll want to subscribe to. veep stakes continue tomorrow. more from cleveland and more on hillary clinton meeting with tim kaine. "hardball" with chris matthews is next. >> bill mahr plays "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in new york. the republican convention is just days away now and the party's nominee is running the most unpredictable, some would say confounding campaign in modern times. the democratic campaign is facing a major trust deficit. only 37% of voters consider her trustworthy. on top of that the country seems polarized on issues of race and policing.