moment now. we know the presumptive republican nominally will formally announce his pick about 24 hours from now. newt gingrich says it's down to him and indiana governor, mike pence. but just as trump himself advised, no one is printing the bumper stickers yet. trump calling new jersey governor chris christie. also this morning, we now know who will speak. and maybe as importantly, who will not speak at this convention. next week, we'll hear from lawmakers, governors, religious leaders, athletes, even a former calvin klein underwear model. as you can tell, this promises to be anything but your run-of-the-mill presidential convention. our correspondents are here in cleveland with me and all around the country, in fact, this morning. let's start with nbc's kelly o'donnell, with me here in cleveland. kelly, you've been working your sources. you actually worked here in cleveland for a while. tell us where things stand on a running mate. >> reporter: well, what we know, chris, is that the decision has not been formally made, at least

they're not willing to tell us it has been made. down to those top three choices, and we know these last round of personal conversations have been a critical part of this. a chance for the trump family, the oldest children and the candidate himself, to get a little bit more time to spend with a mike pence in indiana, newt gingrich, and the chris christie relationship is a little bit different. he met with the oldest children the day before, and then has been working the phones with trump, because he was in washington, d.c., working on transition business. and if you wonder about that, both campaigns, clinton and trump have an operation under way and the federal government makes space for that. so that's already happening. we expect that we'll learn when a decision is made. but sources are still saying to me, it's wide open. chris? >> all right. kelly o'donnell. thank you very much. i want to bring in nbc's katy tur, covering the trump campaign from the start. outside trump tower, where all this began more than a year ago.

so katie, what's going on out there in those offices? >> reporter: you know, spoke to somebody intimately involved in the vetting process. they gave me an idea of what they're looking for in terms of a running mate. i'm told it's going to be someone that has legislative experience. that's what they want. but it's also going to be personality-driven. who is going to get along with donald trump. not just for this campaign season, what remains of it, but potentially for the next four to eight years, if he does win, and then win re-election. in terms of who they like, it's going to be whether they want an attack dog or somebody that balances out donald trump more. governor pence being more of the balancing act that the campaign and donald trump himself extraordinarily impressed with the other day, his ability to come on stage and act as the attack dog. they thought he was going to be a little bit more quiet, but he was forceful and owned the room. he was not the attack dog in the way that chris christie or newt gingrich is.

but they were impressed with his ability to come out and play that role, if need be. as for christie and gingrich, those two are what they are calling the attack dogs, as well. right now, this source is telling me -- kept saying it's down to two really great guys. they have narrowed it down a little more. whether that's pence and gingrich or pence and christie or christie and gingrich, it still all could be somebody we're not speaking about yet, chris. >> there we go. somebody we haven't even got a research done on, katie it at your, outside of trump tower. thank you very much. i want to bring in molly ball, for the atlantic, jeremy peterson, both here in cleveland. molly, you're with me. let's start here. what do you imagine is going on up in that room in trump tower. and it's 25 hours from when he says he's going to announce. has he really not made up his mind? >> i don't think we know. i think what we have seen from donald trump so far in this campaign, he is so unpredictable that literally anything could

happen. so you know, i would not be surprised to see him throw a curveball at the very last minute. i would also not be surprised to see him go with any of these top three choices. we see him tend to make these decisions in public. he likes to see how his crowds respond to things. how the media responds to things. so i think he's paying very close attention, and people around him are paying very close attention to all of the press coverage and the speculation and how these picks have been received as they have been trotted out in the vp stakes so far. >> so jeremy, give me your take on this. where it is and what you think the chances are that one of these three guys we have been talking about so much isn't the person. >> reporter: i think, chris, the chances are fairly significant. that it's not one of these three. let's remember, donald trump is a magician. he is a master of political diversion. and while we're looking over here, he is like, hey, guys, look over here. and always thrown us off base.

he is constantly changing the narrative, knows how to manipulate the media, knows how to command the news cycle. and i think it's possible this whole road show he has been doing with mike pence, chris christie, newt gingrich, is entirely diversionary. and tomorrow morning when he speaks at trump tower, he shows up with somebody that we haven't been talking about for the last week. >> the thing about vp picks, as we build them up, molly, but end rarely make a difference. they did for the case of sarah palin, a lot of people thought she wasn't ready for prime time, maybe go back to lyndon johnson for kennedy, and, you know, texas, taking texas. but what will this say, do you think, about donald trump, and is it any more or less important than it has been in the past? >> i think it's more important, because donald trump is not a politician, because he lacks any electoral or legislative experience. to see what kind of signal he's going to send. as -- if he goes through with what he said and picks a politician, some people think that that could actually make him less appealing as an

outsider. because it's not a two-outsider ticket. on the other hand, i think that will reassure a lot of people in the so-called establishment, that he is it have someone who knows the political process and that's the case he has made for that sort of a pick. so i think it's not about winning any particular state, as you say, the political scientists tell you that does not matter. but it is about sending a signal of what kind of presidency this might be because it's so hard for us to imagine that, that he hasn't been in this kind of position before. >> all right, molly, jeremy, you're both going to stick around. i want to hear from you again after we get a check of where this race stands. let me bring in senior political editor, mark murray from washington. mark, trump obviously hoping to get that storied convention bounce. but what's his starting point. what do we know right now? >> you know, chris, we've actually had a slew of polls in the last 24 hours. and there has actually been one theme that donald trump has actually closed the gap, his poll numbers look better today than they were two weeks ago. but he still hasn't necessarily

overtaken hillary clinton. let me walk you through some of the polls we have seen. first, the national "new york times" cbs poll that shows a dead even race at 40-40. hillary clinton had a three-point lead -- i'm sorry, a six-point lead the last time that poll. so dead even race there nationally. now in the battleground states, our nbc "wall street journal" poll of iowa had hillary clinton with a three point lead within the margin of error. you ended up having a tie race in ohio and hillary clinton with a nine-point lead in pennsylvania. when you add those battleground polls, chris, with the other ones that we saw yesterday from colorado, virginia, as well as wisconsin, it's clear that donald trump has made some improvement, but not enough. one piece of context here, these polls are all taken after the very tough e-mail story for hillary clinton last week. they have also come, however, as hillary clinton has bombarded donald trump over the airwaves and tv ads, outspending him nearly 40-1 in battleground

states. >> and mark, we're also going to get some more polling later today from more battleground states, you say? >> yeah, just wasn't those polls over the last 24 hours. first thing this morning, chris, we're going to have four new nbc "wall street journal" marist polls from colorado, and north carolina. fasten your seat belt. there is so much polling information headed into the conventions and the vp picks. >> i can't wait. mark murray, thank you. molly and jeremy, let me bring you back. what do you make of the polls and the way it's been tightening over the last couple weeks? >> i think as mark said, the context is really important here. because if you look at the electoral map, it's still very hard to see donald trump getting 270. let's take ohio, for example. donald trump can win ohio, and he would still have an electoral deficit to make up in the college. so what you have here is a weakened presumptive republican nominee who is having a hard time competing in states that

republicans should win. i'm talking about states like north carolina, like georgia, where private republican polling that's been done over the last few weeks, i'm told, shows a dead even race or in some cases donald trump actually losing. in donald trump were to lose those states, it doesn't matter if he wins ohio. it doesn't matter if he wins pennsylvania, he's still going to lose the presidency, if he doesn't close gaps in other important swing states. >> yeah, the delegate math still no doubt about it, molly, favors the democrat, and in this case, happens to be hillary clinton. what are you watching, and what will you be watching through the course of this convention to tell you whether or not donald trump has nailed it? >> well, look jeremy and i are covering the preconvention meetings and looking at this last-ditch effort to throw donald trump off the ticket. i think in that light, the timing is really significant. for these republicans to see donald trump keeping it close in these swing states and in the national polling, is going to

really, i think, pour cold water on some of the efforts by some of the republican rabble rousers to say trump can't win. if trump were going into this convention at a 10 or 15-point deficit, it would be much easier for these republican delegates to convince some of their peers who are inclined temptly not to rock the boat that they have to do something about this situation. >> all right. molly, thank you. and thanks to jeremy peters, as well. one of the surprises of this campaign for a lot of people, i think, were the comments by ruth bader ginsburg, the supreme court justice. i want to go to pete williams in washington with some breaking news. and what has turned out to be this battle between donald trump and the justice. what have you got for us, pete? >> everything about this has been unusual. the statements themselves and now a brief written apology from justice ginsberg. let me read it to you, just issued by the supreme court. she says, quote, on reflection, my recent remarks and response to press inquiries were ill

advised, and i regret making them. judges should avoid commenting on a candidate for public office. in the future, i will be more certify couple speculative. to repeat, she says her comments were ill advised that she regrets making them, judges should avoid commenting on a candidate for public office, and in the future she will be, she says, more circumspect, just issued by the court. i think it's fair to say that justice ginsberg has been thinking about doing this for the past 24 hours or so. in response to the enormous amount of attention to the comments she made. she first did a couple of interviews on friday with the a.p. and the "new york times." and she told the "times" she thought it would be a bad deal if trump got elected. she joked she would think about moving to new zealand. and then on monday when an offer working on a book about the chief justice talked to her,

he -- she gave justice ginsberg a chance to in essence take it back. and instead, justice ginsberg went further and said that donald trump was a faker, that he had a huge ego, says whatever popped into his mind, and that the press should be tougher on him on not releasing his returns. trump himself has criticized her and i think it's fair to say that many of her fans have criticized her, as well. now, the one thing that's -- i don't think anybody questions in all of this, except perhaps donald trump, is her mental capacity. of everyone who knows justice ginsberg says that her opinions, even the critics of her say there is no question she still has it together mentally. but they do question -- did question her judgment, and now justice ginsberg herself says i shouldn't have done it. >> well, when you consider what happened in 2000 and the consequences of the supreme court on that election, you understand why some people raise some eyebrows. interesting stuff. thank you so much, pete. always good to talk to you. >> you bet.

meantime here just a few hours ago, we heard that donald trump released a list of speakers who will join him at the rnc next week. coming up, i'll talk to a congressman about the decision to come to the convention and stand with trump. at the beginning of the 21st century, the earth needed to find a new way to keep up with the data from over 30 billion connected devices. just 30 billion? a bold group of researchers and computer scientists in silicon valley, had a breakthrough they called... the machine. it changed computing forever. and it's been part of every new technology for the last 250 years. everything? everything! this year, hewlett packard enterprise will preview the machine and accelerate the future. see star trek beyond.

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now you aren't just coming, you're speaking. so what changed your mind? >> so i was always going to go to the convention. i was asked by politico, i hadn't been asked. i want to go to the convention, because, listen, i think we're dealing with really big issues, as your viewers know. this is going to be a close election. you see the battleground polling come in. it's going to be tight. i think it's important to go and support donald trump, to talk about the big issues that are going to help grow our economy. put people back to work. help our families out. help with our security. and so i think there is a clear distinction between the two candidates and i want to go partake in making sure our voice is heard. >> you've talked about these issues before and said in the past, not too distant past, that donald trump talks big. but when you ask him how we make america safe again, how we grow the economy, how we fix health care, he doesn't have any ideas. has he shown you something in the last couple months?

>> i think what he does well is he talks at the top level. the big issues. but if you actually close the door, and start to talk to him, he knows what he's talking about. even if you talk to his policy advisers, the ones who work with him on these issues, he knows this stuff and knows it well. >> i think the american people aren't going into the weeds right now on these topics, and donald trump understands that. so he's able to talk about the big idea, all the while working behind the scenes with his team to get the granular level that will be needed to actually help implement this stuff. >> are you suggesting, congressman, i have to interrupt you. are you suggesting that the american people are not interested at this point in the details of how he's going to fix the things he says are broken? >> no, but i think they're concerned about, are you on the same page as i am. are you going to acknowledge that things are broken? >> don't you think -- >> here's -- >> they're on the same page as you are? they gave in the nomination next

week. >> my case in point is, we might have a debate about hillary clinton might go i'm going to agree with barack obama. we should grow government, have more rules and regulations from the bureaucrats in washington. donald trump will say that's the wrong approach. i think we have to have some rules and regulations, but we have to make it work for small businesses across america, make it more competitive, nor innovative so they create jobs in our communities. those are differences that at the high level you might have liberals that go i love more government than hillary clinton. and republicans will say i want to make sure donald trump is on my side on what is the role of government. so that's what i'm trying to say in regard to the high points. how do we engage overseas on the top line issues? do we want to engage isis? do we want to defeat isis? or do we want to continue with the mansy pansy stuff obama has done and let them expand and grow and kill more people. >> plenty colleagues are staying away from former nominee john mccain, jason chaffetz among at

least eight republican members that going abroad. the armed services cham -- these have to be approved. they were approved by speaker ryan, the chairman of this convention. is this sending a message of a split party? >> no. i don't think so. i mean, i think if you look at how many votes donald trump received, the most ever in republican primary, i think what he was telling chris you talked to about the poll numbers and still have republicans who are sitting on the sidelines. there is a substantial room to grow for those republicans to actually come home. and when they do, watch those poll numbers for donald trump to go up even further. wisconsin is a good example. donald trump is down by four. there's many republicans who aren't home yet for donald trump. when they do come home, wisconsin is going to be in play and i think donald trump actually can win it. it's very unique on when they come home, but what it does to the polling in the swing states

that decide who is going to get the 270 number and win the presidency. >> congressman duffy, i'm interested in talking to you more about your home state. safe travels to cleveland. >> thank you, chris. right now the rnc committee is meeting some members who want to upend the entire convention on that rules committee. coming up, we'll check in on their congress. also with that, a group of delegates hoping to stop donald trump. real is touching a ray. amazing is moving like one. real is making new friends. amazing is getting this close. real is an animal rescue. amazing is over twenty-seven thousand of them. there's only one place where real and amazing live. book a seaworld vacation package and eat free.

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morning. i wonder how they're feeling in light of concerns that police in dallas had, they didn't know who the good guys were versus the bad guys when that horrible shooting happened last thursday night. >> right. the police chief said that's a wake-up call for them. that dallas was a wake-up call for all of them and made them pause and relook at everything they have been doing over the past year or so. he said they're not doing anything to restrict anybody's second amendment and the ohio state law to carry a firearm. as we walk around, they're able to show us some of that which they will be using out here. this is a brand-new suit that the bomb squad will be using, about 70-pound suit. and then, of course, as you might expect, they have one of their large roebbots, a smaller one, this one they named vick after a former chief. and then you notice the motorcycles, a few dozen ready, the larger motorcycles, mostly for traffic. and then we have this bmw smaller that can go on the grass, if need-be.

and then as we walk over here, this is a big part of the strategy we were talking about, thousands, potentially tens of thousands of protesters, these bike officers. there will be about 300 of these bikes that they just bought, and there will be officers from cleveland, as well as elsewhere. here we have officer bullen. why -- what is your main duty and strategy as a bike officer? >> our main duty and strategy is to be able to provide service to the people here visiting and citizens of cleveland. we're able to get places people need us and able to assist anybody with any issue they may have. >> reporter: and as far as crowd control, if things do get heated, if it's hostile, what are your -- what's your strategy there? what do you do? >> we plan on -- we have been through extensive training and we plan on managing that as peacefully and as comfortably as possible for everybody involved. >> reporter: among other things, you, of course, were going to try to separate the groups if they are hostile. >> if they were. if they were to be hostile towards each other, we have the

ability to separate people. this bike is a great tool. allows to get in the middle of the crowd and calm things down before it gets well out of hand. >> got it. thank you so much, officer. we'll end here showing how we have officers on horseback, dozens of those. and behind them, you notice the steel fences they have been putting up in the days up to the convention. they still have a lot of them. that's the secret service secure zone inside of that zone, no guns allowed, no weapons allowed, controlled by the secret service as you might expect. chris? >> thank you for that update on security here. joining me onset, is city councilman brian kasie. thank you so much for coming in. >> thank you. >> reporter: how are you feeling about how secure this city is right now? >> i don't think we have ever felt more secure. especially within the last couple days in light of dallas. as the police chief has stated earlier. it was a wake-up call.

and i believe that the reevaluation and some things that could possibly happen came more to light. and in the light of dallas, that maybe nobody had thought about. sorvelths have you and members of your committee intimately involved in this, have you been talking about this? you have been making adjustments, keeping in it close touch with the police chief. >> the city keeps the council briefed, and they're doing a good job of keeping us informed. obviously, we're not that privy to every single thing that's going to go on, just for safety purposes. as only the law enforcement aspect of the convention is going to know, you know -- the inside details. but they do keep us very -- >> reporter: have you been told what the level of concern is? we know there are anti trump protesters, both republicans and democrats. we know that there are certain groups who come out every four years for both the republican and the democratic conventions. but there does seem it to be this heightened tension this year. what's the level of concern, not

about whether or not you can deal with it, the police can deal with it, what's the level of concern something might happen here? >> obviously, it's a concern. when you have an event this big and you do have anti both sides going on, and the possibility that something may occur, obviously we're hoping it doesn't. but it's a concern. and i think that we're planning for the worst, and hoping for the best. >> you know, i was thinking about when you had -- i don't know what the final number was. >> 1.3 million. >> he knows exactly what i'm talking about. that's the celebration of the cleveland cavaliers, as somebody who grew up just down the road from here. i had to work, lebron and the cavs then. when i looked at that, i thought this is a really happy celebration. this is a group of people all on the same page. again, a little different scenario here. >> right. >> how many levels of security? obviously, you have the secret service, a federal agency. state, local, everybody. >> everybody is here. for the convention. to protect.

and obviously, you know that we've brought in additional police from other agencies that are here. when we had the rally, the 1.3 million people that are down here, it wasn't a much different atmosphere. even though we're not expecting that many people, the tension level will be much different in the city as opposed to when we had the rally when everybody was just celebrating one common thing. everybody had a common happiness to them. whereas the convention, it's quite contrary to that. you're going to have the anti, you're going to have the pro. you know, you're going to possible -- >> and the possibility of guns. i just came back from dallas, and i spoke to a lot of police officers. and very proud second amendment supporters. but they said to me, they said, chris, i -- we couldn't tell in the chaos of what was going on. who was a good guy and who was a bad guy. where those shots were coming from. were they just fired by somebody legally carrying a gun at the protest.

how worried are you about that? >> very worried. just because we're an open carry state doesn't mean you can physically carry a gun around pointing it at people. we know that you can have an open conceal on you. however, the concern is just like what happened in dallas. if we happen to have an individual who doesn't have the best intentions in mind, and decides to go rogue. but yet we have all -- or a bunch of individuals who are legally carrying, who decide to step outside their boundary of their ccw permit by not feeling imminently threatened, and decide they're going to help law enforcement. and they have all the best intention. the problem with that is that law enforcement doesn't know that. what law enforcement sees is somebody holding a beggun, possy shooting or aiming it, and law enforcement is trained to deal with that situation, and not -- they don't have time to stop and say, excuse me, do you have a ccw permit, and whom are you trying to shoot at.

there could potentially cause mass confusion, which then is a whole another situation that law enforcement would be handling. >> we're all hoping for a safe and peaceful convention. cleveland city councilman, brian kasie, thank you so much. good to see you. right now, the stop trump movement is getting ready to make its final stand. the powerful convention rules committee is in a recess, as we speak, before the members set the stage for next week's convention. they're looking at live pictures right now. inside the room, a small group of delegates hoping to challenge the nomination of donald trump. msnbc chief legal correspondent, ari melber, with me here in cleveland. and obviously just extend out after they were taking that break. so what's the new information? i understand you have some brand new insights into what's going on in there. >> that's right. we have breaking news. first here on msnbc, you just showed the picture of that room. it's supposed to be full of powerful delegates who are going to decide how the convention runs and whether there is any option for an off-ramp to choose

donald trump. the big fight. they were supposed to meet all morning around 9:00, they came to basically dias and said there was a printer jam. and then moments ago the chair came back up and said actually they're scrapping the entire morning, in recess until 1:00 p.m. she said she's not happy about it, but that's what they're going to do. mind you, that's not supposed to be an empty room. when you look at that live camera shot, this meeting planned for months and it was going to meet from 8:00 a.m. until now. what is going on, we can confirm first here on msnbc, reince priebus is backstage, outside of that room, leading a meeting of top republican insiders, including representatives of the trump campaign. we can confirm that news. we cannot tell you exactly what they're talking about. but we can make an educated speculation here that obviously they're not talking about just having the open votes they were scheduled for this morning. there seems to be some attempt at a back room deal that might help get people what they said

and keep the trump nomination secure while trying to deal with what has been this growing revolt. no one thought the revolt had 51%, but apparently may have enough to change the business. the other thing i want to it tell you is ben ginsberg, an rnc lawyer who used to work on the inside process and now an analyst for nbc, is here and told me what he thinks is going on is likely a three-way deal where the trump camp, the rnc leadership and the anti trump camp come to some agreement so by the time this powerful group reconvenes at 1:00, they have some orderly set of votes. the alternative is something disoral that they can't reach a deal and they have a fight. this is not what was planned for today. >> well, i'm just trying to figure out, if you're part of the stop trump movement and -- i don't understand what the deal could be. all you want to do is stop trump. i mean, do you or did ben have any insights into that? because i don't -- if i am somebody who has been for the last several months working to stop trump, it's either stop trump or nothing. there is nothing you're going to give me or say to me, right?

>> i think you put your finger on it. and that's what former -- excuse me, current senior top trump official told me this morning outside this meeting when it was supposed to start. they said it's not like the platform where you can trade policies. these people just want to stop our guy, and our guy is the nominee. so your point and to that stickiness, that's why can they're backstage and may be difficult. having said that, they may feel if those folks don't have the votes to force anything to stop trump, they can find some way of giving them a tip of the hat, some respect, some notion of more democracy at future conventio conventions. to your point, we're not hearing there is any off-ramp where the trump folks are surrendering. >> all right. thank you, ari. i know you'll stay on top of it. that breaking news, a break in the meeting, apparently some backdoor dealings to try to stop the stop trump movement. and let's go to nbc's kelly o'donnell with more on trump's running mate search. kelly, what have you learned.

>> we're measuring the path to knowing the ultimate choice in small kremts. we have new deals from newt gingrich, in the top three, top tier of donald trump's potential choices. he is telling nbc news that he expects to receive word about the decision after about 1:00. so that's giving us a new time line. we know that the formal announcement will come tomorrow at 11:00 a.m., and the question has been, would this news in some way, shape or form leak prior to that. and then have tomorrow's event be more of the show, but the news to get out sooner. so this suggests that gingrich was informed of a potential time line by trump himself or those in his campaign. we're now narrowing the window, and that gives us within a couple of hours of when we have the potential to find out what donald trump is thinking. now, having done this in past cycles, there are a couple ways this could work. trump could contact each of the finalists and say a decision has been made without disclosing the

choice. he could call the person he is choosing, offer the job, get the acceptance, begin to make the plans for family members or others might be involved in tomorrow's rollout. it is possible he could inform those who are in the top tier they are not the choice, but not tell them who the choice is. and the other option is, to bring all of those top tearfully in the circle to say a decision is made, here it is, and thank you for your participation. so all of this is sort of amping up the excitement within a couple hours now when we begin to think the window for notifying the top tier candidates will open. that's according to newt gingrich to nbc news. chris? >> is there anybody who thinks this isn't going to leak, kelly? >> well, it has happened before. i lived through the sarah palin experience, where it was tight as a drum. and i am hoping not to relive that today. i think it will really -- i think it will really depend on kind of the rules that the trump people put on this.

i think it reflects the candidate, does he want ultimate spence, is he willing to let a little out, and sometimes a matter of outside events that are triggered by informing the candidate, whether that is the travel advance, whether it is preparing things that are decorations for an event. all kinds of different sort of subtle details that are a part of the ultimate event that may give a clue. that might be a way for it to leak out or the old fashioned way. they could call us and let us know. chris? >> kelly o'donnell with a little bit of insight there. very intriguing. thank you so much. so we continue to be live here in cleveland. we'll have more on the stop trump movement and the rules committee. what's going on behind closed doors. what are we hearing about the vp search. we'll have it all for you right here on msnbc. ♪

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about, the possibility of protests here, whether or not they could turn. and just getting this word that there is civil disobedience training that is going to take place for people who plan to protest, both here in cleveland and in philadelphia. it's being posted on facebook, and so they are clearly organizing in a way that they have not before. that breaking news. meantime, we have the breaking news coming out of rules committee, seven weeks after donald trump locked up the nomination, several members of the convention rules committee inside the room hoping to change the direction of the convention in a very big way. the stop trump movement, though, apparently, has gone back into a room with reince priebus. we think there could be some sort of deal they're trying to work o work out.

jacob soboroff spoke to some of the delegates. before we can get to the conversations, i'm going to ask you what we were talking about before. i'm trying to figure out if you're a stop trump person, short of stopping trump, what deal could you be offered that you could say okay, fine, i'm going home? >> it's a big question, chris. i want to take you with me where not many other media organizations have been before. we're not allowed actually into the rules committee meeting room. but we are allowed in a very trump anyway on the escalator here. what we are hearing is that the type of deal that someone like kendall onra, chair of the stop trump movement, the free the delegates organization, could strike would be something that would potentially allow a vote, while still insisting that donald trump somehow would become the nominee. whether or not that's the case, whether or not that's possible, i'm not sure. but how feels about the

possibility of this happening and whether or not she has the votes, i asked her exclusively on her way in here this morning. take a look at this. how do you feel? you're trying to unbind delegates and allow them to vote their conscious on the floor. >> the rule doesn't give them the ability. they inherent leone the right to unbind. it's codifying the right to unbind. i'm very confident we're going to have the 28 votes needed to have the minority report which passes it on to the floor so all the delegates can have a voice. that's what this is about, the people having a voice, free conscious, free will to cast a ballot for whomever they want. and that's obviously the whole basis of the movement. >> do you think you're going to have the 28 votes so all delegates on the floor can vote on this? >> life is like cracker jacks. it's full of surprises. stay tuned. >> and kendall, if you are the woman ultimately to bring down donald trump's nomination, i mean, there is a lot of pressure on you. how do you feel right now? >> it's not just me. it's an entire group of

americans, tens of thousands of americans, representing hundreds of thousands, representing millions of americans that are all on board with this effort. 48% of republicans don't want to miss their nominee. so all i am is the face of this entire movement that has actually come behind us and they're supportive of us. in fact, i just got a petition today that had been signed by 2,300 people that were in favor of the conscious clause. >> hey, chris. so you heard kendall herself right there, if you look down there in those gray sort of temporary office spaces, this is where we and i first spotted reince priebus going in and out of here during the rules committee meeting. where these meetings that ari melber has been reporting on, as well, that are taking place and, again, 1:00 eastern time is when we expect the rules committee meeting to resume to see if any deal has been struck. whether or not kendall will become the woman ultimately to stop donald trump. >> sbibesides the fact that don trump has nothing on you on an

escalator and walking off backwards, let me ask you this key question. if they weren't there in that room with reince priebus, how would this work? what would they be doing right knew? what was the plan? >> what needs to happen and what kendall had planned to do, chris, is to actually submit a new rule. into the rules committee. rule 16, i believe, and ari can speak to that better than i can. but what she would say is, she wants the delegates to be able to vote their conscious. not to be bound by the will of the voters in those particular states, the different states that have all voted within the primary election. she says when we get down to the floor, she wants the a minority report, basically, coming out of the rules committee. and that minority report would allow the delegates on the floor of the convention next week to vote, and if 1,237 delegates voted, if that rule passed, for someone else other than donald trump, that person could become the republican nominee. it's a very long shot. you talk to people like ben ginsberg, our very own analyst here at msnbc, and nbc news, and

says it's not necessarily likely. but it sure is a possibility. and i think that's why reince priebus is taking this seriously and is here in those rooms that i showed you, taking these meetings. >> well, few people have been as close on the inside at these kinds of things as ben ginsberg. jacob, i know you'll keep us posted. thank you so much. and we are live in cleveland, just four days ahead of the republican national convention, waiting for trump's final pick. but now we're getting some new clues as to who that might be. we'll be right back. hey diddle diddle, the cat and the fiddle, the cow jumped over the moon... then quickly fell back to earth landing on the roof of a dutch colonial. luckily geico recently helped the residents with homeowners insurance. they were able to get the roof repaired like new.

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some high drama here in cleveland, where the rules committee meeting has broken up, and apparently reince priebus is over there, meeting with those committee members, and members of the stop trump movement, as well as some trump

representatives. joining me now, rnc communications director, sean spicer. so sean, what's going on over there? >> not much. i think it's a lot to do about nothing. we're going to continue with the rules. they paused for a moment to meet with eve each other, making sure we have a great communication. there are some conversations happening this morning. but i feel very good about -- you sat list of speakers this morning. it's going to be a phenomenal convention. with family members, politicians, people who know mr. trump well, celebrities. and a lot of people that have still yet to be named. >> well, if reince isn't going in there and saying let's come out and holding hands singing kum ba yah, is he trying to convince them not to do the minority report? what is he trying to convince them? >> it's not about convincing them. the votes just aren't there right now. >> they disagree. they say they've got them. >> i even talked to your own reporters. there is no one who believes they do. there is partly to make sure we're meeting beating hillary

clinton. the idea is to sit down and make sure that everybody had a chance to discuss their ideas and see if there is a way forward to continue to unite this party and defeat hillary clinton. >> you talk about unity, and for a while we have known that john mccain was not going to come here. but you're also seeing in the last couple days a couple of republican house committee leaders who have decided not just that they're not coming here, but they're going to leave the country. they're going to go on trips. there is about at least eight of the republicans, of course, all that has to be approved by the speaker of the house. who is officially the chairman of this, and he has been critical of some of the things that your presumptive nominee has had to say. so is it an uphill slog for you to really project the image of party unity? >> not at all. first of all, there is -- both sides, there is people who don't attend the convention. you've seen this -- i've been involved in politics almost 30 years. there are people who have other

priorities. that's great. but you look at the list of speakers that got announced this morning, some pretty phenomenal names on that list. both in terms of speakers that are in elective office and people that are on video like marco rubio from florida. bobby knight, the trump family is going to speak. this is the most star-studded convention in any party history. i think it's going to be a phenomenal thing. and instead of figuring out who is not going to be here, i'm excited about who is going to be here. >> he said it was going to be -- and i mean trump -- is looking for more glitz and glamour. somebody who understands how television works. i don't know, i might beg to differ a little bit, that this speaker list is a little bit more conventional. what will get people to tune in to watch before thursday night when donald trump himself speaks? >> it sounds like it's pretty tough to please you, chris. tim tebow is going to speak. bobby knight, natalie gomez,

peter field, people who worked for donald trump 20 years, 30 years, so i beg to differ. i think there is a lot of exciting people on that stage. and they're going to talk about donald trump, talk about the republican party. and i think it's going to be in stark contrast to what you see the following week in philadelphia, which is the same old, same old. politicians that are going to offer the same excuses and same failed strategies, where donald trump is going to get up, talk about his strategy to make america great and make sure the people understand that the dangerous path that hillary clinton would take if she were elected. >> how confident are you now, shaun, that reince priebus is going to come out with what he went in looking for, which is for the stop trump people to back down a little bit? >> i'm very confident. i wouldn't be out here if i was concerned. >> sean spicer, good to see you. i'm sure we'll see each other throughout the course of the week. thank you. >> you bet. thanks, chris. so in addition to that breaking news, we have been following the vp stakes. i want to check in with nbc's katy tur, who has new information. what are you finding out?

>> we're reading tea leaves right now, chris. politico reporting that governor mike pence has bought a two-week ad buy in indiana for his re-election campaign out there, after the republican convention. does this mean that he is not the vp pick? no, not necessarily. the campaign can take the ad down if he does get it. or they could hand off the ad time to his replacement, who will be running against the democrat out in indiana. but any little thing is stirring up quite a bit of interest in terms of who donald trump is going to pick. newt gingrich telling nbc news just a few minutes ago that he expects to find out the news himself after 1:00 today. sources that i've been speaking with within the campaign. won't say they have narrowed it down to a certain number of people, but when i've had conversations with them, they have said we've got two great guys that we're looking at. so it does seem they have narrowed it down quite a bit. and a decision will come at some point today, whether we find out about it, we don't know. we definitely find out about it

tomorrow morning. >> all right. katy tur, thank you. live in cleveland, four days ahead of the republican national convention. we'll be right back. at clorox 2 we've turned removing stains into a science. now pre-treat with clorox 2! watch stains disappear right before your eyes. remove 4 times more stains than detergent alone. you can fly across welcome town in minutes16,

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great things are ahead of you when your health is ready for them. at humana, we can help you with a personalized plan for your health for years to come. i'm chris jansing back here live in cleveland on east fourth street. over my shoulder is lola restaurant. michael simon, chef, his signature restaurant, has made cleveland a culinary destination. this week, of course, it's a political destination, and with that rules committee meeting going on behind closed doors, stuff leaking out about the vps, it's going to be a busy day. keep it here on msnbc. we have reporters all across the city, and all across this country. i'm chris jansing in cleveland. tamron hall is come up next.

gloorm good morning, i'm tamron hall, a few blocks away from quicken loans arena, the site of the republican normal convention. this morning we begin with mounting spence. this time tomorrow morning, donald trump will announce his vice presidential nominee. the question, of course, who will it be? our nbc political team has learned the list is now down to three big names. governor chris christie, governor mike pence and newt gingrich, all names that have been floated around for some time now. but it is still very possible, we're told, that donald trump could surprise everyone and announce someone who is not on the list. for now, though, trump is offering very few clues. >> i just want to pick somebody that's very good. i want to pick somebody who is solid, smart. i'm not looking for an attack dog. frankly, i'm looking