we are back and what a day, what a night it has been in turkey. an attempt at a coup and that is really all we can call it until we have proof to the contrary. this was the scene near one of the major bridges in istanbul when gun fire rang out and civilians who had rushed the bridge after the military had closed the bridge, got apparently, too close to one of the checkpoints and gun fire rang out. actually, that is also where we saw some of the wounded getting taken by taxi cab out of there.

then there was this. a television station, trt, was taken over by citizens after they received a message from erdogan telling them to mobilize and take back this military coup. we saw a bizarre scene where the anchors, the presenters were speaking to the people over the cable airwaves while surrounded by and many times trying to shush and quiet down this mob. eventually the studio was cleared and normal broadcasting continued. the airport was the site of a lot of activity. erdogan mentioned people, urging people to go to the airport and in effect, make it safe for his return. look at this. this is airport security. they're walking through the metal detectors out to the domestic terminal, also the airport that you may recall

recently, 45 deaths in that grisly bombing. well, they're just strolling through the airport because it was kind of a flash mob, a crowd scene tonight. we were also watching the scene from the exterior. then there was an emergency session of parliament, not a full house, but some members present when this happened. [ explosion ] >> a huge concussion, a huge explosion. there was other video that happened to be aimed at the extear areio of parliament during that moment. we don't know if it was a bomb or an incoming tank round and then we saw him, erdogan, the president had been on vacation at the black sea. he came back at the airport and landed at istanbul where we were told the problem was people on the runways and taxiways

awaiting his return. he gave two different statements to the press. one kind of on the fly and another in this more formal setting where he called the coup a gift from god. why? because he went on to say this exposed the fissures in society and exposed many members of the military. he addressed members of the military saying in effect, you are our sons in a nation where they are conscripts where military is a part of the right of citizenship. so that is where we stand. we have seen daybreak now in turkey. it is safe to say that no one in the population centers has been to sleep yet overnight. there is a tired nation. we have military equipment all over the landscape and it

started out in the hands of the military and some of it has ended up, as you can see, in the hands of police or civilians. a lot of it has been idled and not all of it was operated the way it was intended. the big worry, aircraft, like f-16s that were in the hands of military and f-16s we learned from erdogan tonight, bombed the location where he was on vacation not knowing he had already left on his way back to istanbul. let's bring in a smart person to talk to to explain all of this. it happens to be david phillips, former senior adviser to the u.s. department of state. he worked extensively on issues concerning turkey. welcome to you. >> thank you, brian. >> well, what do you make of this and what should americans know about what we witnessed overseas. >> it's a deeply destabilizing event no matter what the outcome. it will send shock waves through turkey which is suffering from terrorism in its own civil war

with the pkk and the kurds, and it further casts a shadow over the u.s.-turkey relationship which has already been threatened by erdogan's support for isis and his anti-democratic, islamist, anti-nato rhetoric. >> how much of turkey's problems, modern turkey, are turkey's fault and how much of it is because they're in a bad neighborhood. >> they are in a rough neighborhood, no doubt about that. they immremplemented zero probl with neighbors and they found themselves in conflict with every single neighbor and we should be clear that the military launched this coup because they wanted to restore constitutional rights and preserve the secular nature of the turkish state. a coup is not the right means to accomplish those goals, but turkey has become deeply

authoritarian and erdogan dramatically anti-democratic, so there's a need for a course adjustment. unfortunately, these events will embolden erdogan if he preserves his presidency and he's likely to crack down even further. so there's deep concern about turkey's future. >> do you agree with this popular view that his current political hero is putin? >> they're cut from the same cloth. they clearly believe in consolidating power within an executive presidency. ultimately, erdogan's goal is called constitutional reform, but it's about re-writing the constitution so that the president has paramount authorities, no checks and balances, erdogan wants to rival ataturk as turkey's greatest leader and to be in power when turkey celebrates its centennial in 2023. he's taking turkey down a very dangerous path. >> the great writer and war

correspondent dexter philkins said in this very building and on this very network tonight that as populists go he's a huey long figure. he's huey long with a sharp dagger. it's clear from the statement he gave at the ataturk airport that he is going to seek retribution from the coup plotters. there will be a witch hunt in turkey. there will be show trials and the rule of law will be further integrated. >> executions, imprisonments, that kind of thing? >> executions imply that there is no juridical process. let's wait and see, but there's clearly going to be a vendetta. this idea that the cleric from pennsylvania masterminded the whole thing is just part of erdogan's world view where he's surrounded by terrorists, journalists, kurds, fatullah

gulan, he all feels they're terror firsts and they're threats and he will neutralize them. if erdogan comes back to power let's assume from this conversation, do all of the things you've been talking about and as a said to the former state department spokeswoman the u.s. wakes up every day now and will worry about turkey? >> ever since the crackdown in 2013 when erdogan ordered the police to brutalize the civilian population, the u.s. government has been waking up, worried about turkey. the collusion between turkey and isis, the jihadi highway and the provisions of money and medical care and wounded islamic state fighters and turkish hospitals are all well known to u.s. officials and they're all causes for deep concern. the reality is turkey is a nato ally. it has been a treasured nato

ally, but no longer. turkey needs to be judged by what it does, not by what it says. we'll have a lot more information from erdogan based on his response to these events. >> final question has to do with a huge piece of real estate that most americans don't wake up thinking about either and that's incirlik which has never been more important. >> so incirlik is an air force base near adana and 60 kilometers near the syrian border. when we asked turkey to sign up with a multinational coalition and allow use of incirlik they spent almost a year dragging their feet. they finally signed a deal to attack isis from incirlik and then they use the base itself to launch strikes against kurdish civilians. to erdogan, counter terrorism is about killing kurds. it's not about going after isis who were his comrades. >> thank you so much.

we owe a huge debt to you and all your colleagues who have come on the air tonight and helped -- helped us explain what we've been witnessing in these pictures on the left hand side of the screen all evening. these are momentous world events as was what happened in nice, france, last night what we thought we would be covering tonight. terrible, terrible terrorist attack. >> thank you. >> we have zainabj. candor and a member of the istanbul administration, journalist. oh, we just lost the phone connection. that has been happening. we've been up front about this all night long. we've had journalists themselves warn us that phone calls have just lasted a minute or two because of the strain on communications. so instead we'll take a break and regroup. our live coverage will continue on the other side. no, only lawyers do that.

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[ gunshots ] the noise is the gun fire. [ cheering ] >> this was on facebook live tonight. a i foform of media new to a lo americans and one, sadly, that came to prominence with the police-involved shooting in minnesota long before this conflict we're covering tonight. i've just been handed from our interpreter who is listening to turkish language coverage, the following facts. she says turkish airlines claims they will start flying again at 6:00 a.m. local time in ankara and i would assume this is ankara and istanbul. it is hard to imagine that the airport in istanbul is going to

be up and enjoying normal flight operations after what we saw there overnight. tanks and military vehicles in that central circular structure as you enter, people just flowing freely through the terminal and through the domestic terminal where -- the area where there were 45 dad ean a bombing a few weeks back and out to the tarmac and runways. this is the claim that they'll be flying again, scheduled service. according to the prime minister, 130 turkish soldiers have been taken into custody. one general is dead. here is the airport. that's security. now these are not departing passengers going to flights. these are people who came out, we were told, in support of erdogan and to kind of hasten his departure from the airport

to welcome him back. erdogan was photographed on the tarmac. we are back to apparently, live pictures at 6:15 a.m. so by this claim there's commercial service starting up again. we just don't believe it. according to the chief public prosecutor the death toll in ankara is 42. the death toll across turkey is 60. again, calip perry, partly it'sy job, i don't believe these numbers. no, no, no. everything is fine in turkey and the airport will reopen and this is back to normal. this is the same thing they did after the horrendous terrorist attack where 42 people were killed and it's a sign to the world that turkey is a stable country and for erdogan this is a priority going forward. i'm interested in the general dead. if you will take a shot at the

king, what happens to the military now? we had heard initially that this was mid-level commanders, colonels that were behind this coup attempt. it will be interesting to see how far up the chain of command this goes and what the cleaning of the house is that takes place now, but that airport is going to need to be gone over with a fine-toothed comb. you saw people walking through security and flights will not be going out of that airport until they make sure that it is secure. >> western carriers will completely object until they get a clean bill of health. >> this is one of the points of departure directly to the u.s. so that airport has to follow the very same regulation as it airports here do about security, baggage sweeps and baggage checks and we saw some of the baggage handlers and the security being escorted out by the army before this happened and before then civilians in the city took this airport back so that the president could land. >> the only thing i was happy with, was there no that i saw, and i was watching these airport

pictures, i guess, tonight, last night in turkey, was there no destruction of property. they're using the -- they're using the moving sidewalk there. >> right. >> what a strange night. >> yeah. >> if you live in istanbul this was really a historically bizarre experience. it began with the army saying martial law is in place return to your homes and don't come out. we've gone into a state of emergency. >> and social media is down. >> and social media is down and the president has curtailed social media to the point where western governments say that's too far appears on social media appeals to his supporters to rescue him by allowing him to land at the airport. state tv is on, it's off, it's on, it's off and then you decide to go out into the streets where you the quote, unquote, and again this is the word the government is now using the agitators and the military realized this is not going to

work. i mean, these conscripted, young, army soldiers now surrounded by thousands of people unable to move, unable to go anywhere and unwilling to do what it takes for a coup to be successful which is put the president in jail or kill him, and then make sure that people stay in their homes until you've gained command and control. >> when civilians are stealing out of your deuce and a half the shields meant for you that they want to use against you and when you're outnumbered and can't make your way through a crowd -- >> yeah. and some riot shields against a crowd, a mob of people that are going to crush that truck. there's this great video of people taking the door off the side of these trucks. >> saw that. >> if the door is not able to latch in some meaningful way, that's not a good sign for your coup. >> do we have diane again? okay. diane disenbaum on the phone from istanbul from "the wall

street journal." diane, we are occupying your time tonight, but since you're there and we're not, what turkish media have you seen and what have you observed with your own two eyes and is your answer about momentum the same as it was a few hours ago? >> the momentum still seems to be with the president and as you were talking about the remarkable scene with people taking to the streets and forming the airport and greeting him and challenging soldiers and challenging tanks. the remarkable evening in turkey and the streets here near taksim square in istanbul are still empty. we do still hear sporadic explosions of both gun fire and louder things from across the city. it's -- you know, it's not clear exactly who has control.

it does seem that the coup plotters are fighting for their lives and they haven't quite given up yet. >> when was the last low-level pass you heard of a fighter jet or a helicopter? >> there were. it's been a while since we heard anything overhead. at least an hour, hour and a half, maybe two. there were definitely those sonic booms that you were talking about earlier overhead that -- i covered gaza, and i am familiar with their ability to shatter windows and they did sound like explosions and the f-16s haven't flown since erdogan returned to the airport. >> what do you expect it to be like? let's assume that erdogan prevails and in the next 12 hours we see a more formal address to the nation from the palace. what's it -- what do you expect

life to be like? is there going to be a time, three days from now when you look back and say so that happened. i can't believe we've been through this. >> well, i think this frees president erdogan's hand extensively to go even harder after his dissidents across the political spectrum and you know, this is kind of the bitter pill, i think, for people that don't support erdogan, but support turkish democracy and they've taken to the streets to support turkish democracy and not the president who is seen as an authoritarian by many and it frees them to carry out a broad purge in the country and it's going to be hard to be spared from that when the president's gone after so many people. i think this will change the country. i think what's interesting is you're starting to hear these rumors and these conspiracy theorys in turkey that the president himself may have orchestrated this coup to

solidify his hold on power and this is the country where those kinds of things get traction because everybody wonders about the hidden hand and the president saying this is the work of the parallel state and the hidden hand and now people and critics of the president say he's the hidden hand and he's orchestrating this and it's kinding creating more division and more problems. >> look, for years there, america was accused of being the hidden hand any time there was news of a coup anywhere around the world. it was said early on tonight that tonight's going to end either with erdogan living comfortably in germany or erdogan returning as a much stronger president after all this is over, and the skid marks and bullet holes are cleared from the pavement and the lights are back on, was it you who talked about the odd lighting on

the bridge in istanbul in honor of the victims of nice and france? >> yes. yeah. what an unbelievable turn of events. dion, thank you very much for join us again. we'll let you go back and do your day job as we keep saying in a country where so many people have been up all night especially in the population centers not so much out in the countryside. we want to bring in akbar ahmed, foreign affairs reporter of the washington d.c. bureau of "the huffington post." he grew up in pakistan and can talk about the situation in turkey what do you think tomorrow brings there? >> hi, brian. i think it's important to think about it in terms of turkish domestic contacts and not what folks in d.c. kind of want and

prefer, and i think that's the key to understanding what will come tomorrow. this really concerns erdogan's sense that he is the leader and the fact that we saw people internationally, erdogan is an unpopular figure. we saw people on social media almost hoping for him to be gone. so his sense of being the leader and isolated has only grown, and i think we'll see a pushback against tomorrow against the coup plotters and you will see tougher times for the kurds who he's been waging civil war on for a while now, but at the same time, everyone in particulary, journalists and kurds opposed people who were victims opposed this because they know army rule would be even worse. so there are no good options right now for turkey. >> i just want to ask our control room what do we think we are looking at in ankara? the smoke is allegedly, and i'm

looking at cal perry here in the studio coming from the presidential palace in ankara. >> i don't know this to be true. one of the things we saw earlier were protesters blocking the roads with burning tires. >> that would be consist went that color smoke. >> smoke. >> all right. let's hope for everybody it is that. look at the size of the crowd at daybreak in istanbul. a most tumultuous night. akbar, we have a few minutes to go here and the question is what will this do to the u.s. view of turkey now that we've covered the domestic situation? >> right. there's been a lot of discontent with the erdogan government particularly with the last two years since the u.s. got invo e involved with the isis fight and the tension would only continue and people noted that president

obama made statement and president obama made a statement over an hour and they said maybe they'll wait to see if it succe succeed succeeded. it is no secret. what the u.s. can come back and say you only allowed us toious your air base a year ago and while you're talking there's erdogan in day break out in the open in istanbul surrounded by a crowd of supporters. we'll take a quick break. we'll come back.

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we are back here in new york 11:30 eastern time. this is a live picture. it is morning in turkey and at the center speaking to this crowd is president erdogan. he spent the night, let's just say, far from home. was on vacation on the black sea. a coup was launched by some military commanders. we believe mostly at about the rank of colonel. erdogan's vacation home was

bomb bombed. f-16s carried that out after he left thinking he was still there. he's leadingi us to believe tha f-16s were involved with his flight back to istanbul and he is surrounded by supporters who set up a p.a. system. we don't have the authority or ability to pass judgment on whether or not this is a failed coup attempt, but people looking for evidence that it has failed, that he is back and in charge, i will caution, he is former mayor of istanbul. his power center is there, if we had to pick between the two population centers. this certainly argues for president erdogan being back and

in charge cal perry. this is outside the airport i s istanb istanbul. he's taking advantage there of the crowd. a very charismatic speaker. the concern again, bigger picture is what happens now. what is the backlash in particular turkey as we go forward. two different storylines, istanbul where erdogan is where he's seeing a great deal of support and in ankara where we saw the smoke rising a few moments ago, things are not so clear. the army and the agitators as the government is putting it are still on the streets of ankara and that situation seems unresolved, but in istanbul, as you can see, images of a president returned, of a man who seems to at least have survived this most recent attempt to keep him out of the country.

as you said, it was a strange hour this afternoon our time when we thought maybe he would land in germany. >> we are still joined by akbar ahmed who is coming to us from the does. c. bureau of "the huffington post." akbar, this visual will now get, of course, sent out and repeated. there's a lot of local media there in the crowd in addition to security. this will probably send a strong signal to the people across turkey. >> absolutely, brian. i'd remind people that you know, as much as erdogan is unpopular abroad he did win two elections last year. faced a defeat in the first one certainly, but won two elections. he has a lot of supporters and they're willing to come out, they're willing to sacrifice and the more erdogan can tell them, look, i'm on your side. i'm a victim, but i survived, the better he looks.

>> and what challenge -- what population center is against him, what is the social strata do you think that he has to win over, i guess would be too benevolent a term, that he has to quash now that he is back. >> it's a very dispersed number of elites. there is more liberal and secular turks, right. there are a lot of kurdish voters, but erdogan has cleverly managed to divide even the kurdish population in his country and that's a road map for him. he knows how to get in with certain groups of people and almost split them. he's gotten back some of his kurdish support by accusing them of killing turkish military and officers and people like that. i think now that he's back, he had trials against the military a short time ago in eight or nine years and i think you will see more fear putting into the military and we hear from the

western side and the less we say things like erdogan is isis and erdogan is unacceptable and turkey should be kicked out of nato and these ideas that are growing in the west that only strengthens erdogan. people like angela merkel tried to understand him. the more we condemn him, the stronger he gets in turk. >> akbar ahmed, thank you very much for being with us. >> that's all right. >> jack rice is back with us. former cia special agent and expert on terrorism. jack, will erdogan have a restful night in the near future? >> oh, i think he will, and i think if you look at how this is playing out it is falling into place for him very, very nicely. he has been moving forward very consistently in building this authoritarian role, if you will, and what he is doing now is he will have a freehand to do this. he'll certainly do this in a way that will appear to be legal, that will probably expand his

presidential power, but that's how this is going to work, and i think there are a lot of people who need to be afraid. there are some in the military, the kurds, absolutely. the secular. there is a whole series of groups that are certainly going to be on the run right now and, frankly, there's going to be a lot in the west who will sit back and watch it happen and do nothing about it. >> am i correct that the job of prime minister used to be more important than the job of turkish president and erdogan had, shall we say, expanded the portfolio? >> well, let's take a look at putin. there is a perfect example of that concept and it is the very same thing. we have seen this expansion and the taking over a power and really bringing it into one office. in many ways it appears that that's why many in the military rose up. there is that secular aspect to what they were trying to do, but it was also on trying to limit

the authoritarian reach of this president and that's what they were trying to accomplish, but it's a fascinating thing, brian, when we look at exactly how this works and how the west perceives this. the west will stand back. we regularly stand up and we talk about democracy, we hold this up like this badge of honor and talk about just how important it is to the west and frankly, to the american, but let's take a closer look. i mean, let's look at what we did for mubarak in egypt and let's look at what we did in iraq and pakistan with musharraf and what you are also seeing is a debate going on in think tanks around the beltway right now about whether or not it was smart to overthrow those groups because why? it was because they brought stability and so the idea of simply letting this play out, and letting the authoritarianism expand might just bring the stability that some may claim that they want. of course, in the long term you see what that does. you see the eventual uprising

where it is finally unacceptable. think iran. >> let's listen in here. i wish we had a simultaneous translation. [ speaking foreign language ] >> just wondering the significance of the four fingers. [ speaking foreign language ] [ applause ] ♪ ♪ ♪ >> he said f-16s are not just

jets and they are weapons system and that is still a concern. that is a massive crowd. >> it is a massive crowd. during those nighttime pictures we noted the people streaming into the airport entrance. they were walking past tanks and apcs under that huge hub now familiar that marks the entrance to the airport. this is where they went. it was a call from their president to come and basically liberate that airport from military officers who had decided to shut it down and try to keep the president out. i think that was the decision then. there was a snap election in turkey when people decided no, it's going to be erdogan. it's not going to be the military and that looks like terns of thousands of people who made that decision very quickly. >> it also remains true that in all those confusing scenes we watched tonight because daybreak has arrived in turkey, i keep

meaning to say last night, it's still tonight in the states, all those confusing scenes where people were in some cases literally wrapped in the flag of turkey, they were not all of one mind. some of them were attacking soldiers. some of them were supportive of soldiers. about this crowd, we can say one thing, this is a pro-erdogan crowd. they have been up all night, many of them have walked miles. it is hot. it has been violent. there has been gun fire, not all of it into the air, what a sweeping vista here. there is a television satellite truck that's beaming all of these images around the world. >> and we talk so often about syria being the disease that sort of spreadses these really awful symptoms around the world and here in the united states we've been forced to sort of

look at that conflict in a new way because of the attacks that we've seen recently and this is a country that lives it every day, that deals with that sort of pull and push from being caught between an incredibly bloody conflict and keep in mind, this is a government that kept its borders open during the beginning of the syrian conflict and the not just to allow fighters in to fight the assad regime and to allow refugees out and so this is a country that has and is continuing to go through a new phase in its own history and this is -- this is clearly going to be a day. it may usher in a backlash. that's what people in turkey are concerned about, but certainly a day in which the people of istanbul, at least, chose president erdogan over the military. let's bring in cal shaddy hamid at brookings.

shadi, looking at this scene, is this enough for you to declare this a failed coup? >> i mean -- hi, brian. it seems pretty clear that the momentum is on one side. i mean, i think in the middle east we don't ever want to jump to conclusion, but that is definitely where things are going and usually in the middle east when tanks face off against ordinary citizens. >> look at this, by the way, while you're speaking, their hands are up. those are military. those are soldiers coming away from their vehicles with their hands up. well, you don't see that every day. shadi, i didn't mean to. >> oh, no. these are remarkable images. as i was just saying, usually the people don't win out. those who have force and are willing to use it are the ones who usually win out in the middle east. that's why these images, i think, are so striking for me is that it actually seems like

ordinary citizens who came out in large numbers were able to repel an ongoing military coup so this is relatively speaking, good news, despite the fact as many other guests have been saying, the next weeks and months are going to be uncertain in turkey as turks try to make sense of how exactly did this happen? and what that means going forward for erdogan's consolidation of power. i think he has a real chance if we hope if we're willing to hope that he could push for national reconciliation. i'm not sure that's going to happen, but that's what i think a lot of us would like to see, would hope to see. the concern is that he might go in the other direction and consolidate more power and that could lead to more polarization going forward. >> i imagine the still versions

of these pictures will be fire photos sent and disseminated around the world. i wish we had control of this camera location and could widen the picture to get some context as it just is now repeating as a loop. are they approaching a police-controlled checkpoint? who are they raising their hands to? imagine for a military person what it takes to do that even though this is an army of conscripts. i guess even worse, but cal, these are images that are going to rank right up there to summing up the attempted military coup. >> i imagine people in the arab world watching members of a military surrendering to civilians is quite the sight this morning, right? this is being broadcast around the world, and i just -- i cannot imagine what it's like to watch this in places like saudi arabia and places like jordan

where you are waking up and you're seeing members of the military surrendering to, by and large, civilians. a little bit on what erdogan said, quote, no breaks will be taken until the situation normalizes. millions have stood up for the nation's will. what the government was brought to power by the people and we remain on duty. those were sort of the highlights from that speech given at the airport, but this is extraordinary. >> this is extraordinary. again, we lack the facts or authority to declare this coup attempt over, but something tells me that there will be more official signs that that indeed is the case. let's take another break. 6:45 in the morning in istanbul, turkey, after the understatement of the century. an eventful night, safe to say istanbul has yet to go to sleep.

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we're back. this is the scene we were showing you before the break of soldiers surrendering and on occasion, this picture has split into two and on the righthand side during the break we saw the aftereffects of what's being reported on as an air strike in central ankara, and i'll read this to you from the reuters news agency. this takes up a scorecard to understand the players, but it's exactly how complicated things are on the ground and especially in the skies over turkey still. istanbul, july 16, reuters. turkish authorities shot down a -- here we go, a military

helicopter apparently operated by soldiers trying to stage a coup as it fired on the offices of state satellite operator turksat in the capital ankara on saturday. this is according to cnn turk. the turkish affiliate of cnn. we have seen this smoke plume over ankara for some time now. it started out as decidedly black. i could be they're convinced around that fire by the infiltration of gray in it. we had reports earlier tonight of some victims hit and killed, cal, you talked about some imagery that was really graphic by heavy weapon fire perhaps on one of the bridges. these were about a half dozen civilians who were found dead. >> and it was a helicopter

strafing that bridge with machine gun fire and these are large-caliber weaponry. these two events playing out simultaneously sort of makes sense. if the erdogan government has taken control of the skies again and they are taking out helicopters that may be still under control of those carrying out the coup and you're sitting in a tank on the bosphorus bridge, you're going to surrender pretty quickly, right? >> yeah. >> this could be the sort of endgame here of erdogan sending a message i am back in control. this was the -- one of the first things that was secured by those who were trying to carry out this coup -- this coup or this mutiny however we end up defining it in the end and they've held it ever since this event started now about -- ten hours ago and they're finally now surrendering and they're doing so really in the wake of what may be air strikes by erdogan taking control back. >> as i said, you need a

scorecard to follow the players in this and think about the skies over this country where the friend or foe identifiers that aircraft give out have kind of turned on a dime. let's bring in matt dust, president of the foundation for middle east peace. ironic that we're talking about middle east peace. how would you assess the health of turkey going forward after what we just witnessed over 12 hours? >> i think turkey has been in some trouble with regard to its democr democracy over the past few years. i think there was a lot of hope when erdogan came to power back in 2002, it seemed to be a new kind of leader even though he was clearly a religious conservative and had what we might call an islamist past. he came into power with a coalition of secular leaders promising a new way for turkey

and possibly a new model of islamist democracy or a democrat in which islamism played a role. after winning reelection over the past few years he's taken a much more authoritarian turn turning against some of his allies and consolidating and continually expanding his own power and in some ways he himself has been working to undermine what i would say are turkey's democratic institutions even though he is a democratically elected leader. he's been ruling in a much more maj majoritarian fashion. i would say they would have to be dealt with democratically and what we're seeing today in the streets of turkey is many, many people continuing to support erdogan and making their voices heard that this is not the way to deal with these problems. >> matt, how much of -- i asked this of a previous guest.

i'll ask you. of turkey's problems, how much of the blame goes to turkey and how much of the blame does it go to the fact that they in a really dangerous neighborhood? >> well, clearly, there is an element of both of those. turkey has -- is under serious pressure because of the refugees coming out of iraq and syria and 2.5 million refugees and that will put pressure on any country and even one that's stable and there is an element of just personal authoritarianism in the way that erdogan himself has moved to consolidate his own power and kind of establish himself as just the unchallenged ruler at the very top of turkey's system, so i think both of these things working together has exacerbated the challenges here. >> matt, we've had a lot of evidence over the past 24 hours. we live in a volatile and dangerous world. just think of it, we would have been on the air tonight talking about the aftereffects from what

happened in nice and my fear is for those poor souls who were lost last night, their story and that drama and tragedy gets shunned to the side a bit. >> yeah. that's right. i'm glad you mentioned that, and we should remember all of that. >> matt duss, thank you very much for joining us and being a part of our coverage. cal perry, if possible, there's no way to tie all this together, but think about it in this very studio a week ago, dallas, texas. we've got part of the backdrop is domestic politics. tomorrow morning, 11:00 a.m., we're back at it, donald trump makes his first joint appearance officially with number two on his ticket, mike pence of indiana. we have the continuing tragedy and sadness from france and we have the aftereffects of an apparent -- apparently failed

coup attempt. >> and i think so much of this is about the airport attack that happened in istanbul. i think the world is at a point where people are rightly afraid that things have spun out of control, that syria and iraq are heaving really death and destruction and horrible things. this is how trump goes forward in the election as the law and order candidate, right? he is the man who -- and he's already sort of aligned himself as the person who will take care of america in these frightening times. turkey has just had an evening where -- and it's never this simple where it appears as though democracy has won, right? the citizens have taken back their country and this is a complicated part of the world and it's never that simple and these are the broad brush strokes of politicians and around the world they're starting to paint with.

>> it is hard to remember when a news tempo, momentous stories have come this rapid fire. we didn't think at this time last night we'd be in this position tonight. our coverage of all of it continues and a reminder we are, in fact, offering live coverage tomorrow morning of the donald trump event with mike pence. that's going to do it for this hour's coverage. there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber.

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