police officer who used unjustified force in their ap apprehensi apprehension, and they speak about it. some people shouldn't be police officers, but we have to take its course and we can't murder our over own officers. >> stay with us as we continue to follow this breaking news. i'm franson rivera, and we're in new york following breaking news out of baton rouge, louisiana where the mayor, kip holden tells me three police officers have been killed after an ambush style shooting in baton rouge. there have been shots fired, and when the officers arrived, one or two suspect shooters full on attacked the officers. we understand there are four to seven officers who have been shot and are being treated at a

local hospital, but the mayor confirming that three other officers have been killed. we know that baton rouge has been the site of a lot of tension in recent days, following the shooting death of alton sterling. he had his funeral on friday, but we saw the protests pick up as late as yesterday outside the police headquarters. we don't know if these situations with directly remitted, but given what the mayor told us here at msnbc, these are possible shoot oers who wa who wanted to do harm and believes these officers were specifically targeted. continuing this breaking news and following it here, also joining me from cleveland, is my colleague, ari melmelber, and i know you were talking to people and putting perspective in this. tensions already high in places like baton rouge, dallas,

minnesota and cleveland. we see security a top priority. >> thank you for your supporting. i'm here in cleveland where the political story is of course, the republican nomination starting tomorrow, but all eyes on baton rouge, and it's fair to say, so many of the officers and law enforcement officials gathering and looking at that terrible news. americans are well-aware of the targeted murder of five police officers on july 7th. protests. many peaceful, and some spilling over. and of course, in baton rouge, the killing of alton sterling. add to all that, the heightened tension in baton rouge before that event, that was the first state in america to pass a hate crimes bill against the

targeting op police officers. when that daebate happened, thee was a question as to whether that was necessary. you have authorities saying three were killed in an ambush, and you see why the law said it was necessary to draw a line. this comes amidst an ongoing discussion in america and about how america policing and working and not working. so much to unpack. i want to bring in eugene o'donnell who is a former nypd police officer. i have sadly spoken to you on days like this day days of crime and murder. i want to start with your view of an officer, of what they would likely encounter when we hear it was an ambush. to start simply, that's different than policing than when you respond to other calls. we're hearing police responding

to threats that were initially against police. eugene? >> the irony is striking in both dallas and here. this shows you the nobility of policing and why it's never not going to be a wonderful profession when it's done well. they go anywhere any time, for people they don't know, and you're almost fighting blind. they have the gun runs, and this is what the cops do. you roll up, people are running, people are shouting and screaming. you get information from 911, sometimes, it's consistent with what you see when you get there. sometimes it's malicious, and designed to get you to come out and put your sirens on. the irony here is for cops to help people and being murdered can't be lost, and black lives matter is absolutely valid, issue to raise, but they are in full viewing that those cops,

everybody's lives matter up. see that on television to the point they were willing to give their own for the defense of people they didn't know. we have to get around these complicated issues. where everybody is going for harming police officers. >> we're speaking to eugene o'donnell about the breaking news out of louisiana. authorities are calling this an ambush style attack as well as four or more injured police officers. i want to go to the scene. robb robbie reynold. what can you tell us from there? >> well, i can tell you, you know, it's obviously very hectic. i have been driving around the scene to find where this happened. it's on the road and in the center part of the city. the whole city is just affected by this, and everybody is try the get around the danger. the citizens are being told,

stay home, and do not go near the area. i'm trying to get around to see where the best part is and try to figure out what's happening right now, and i know it's chaotic right now. i'm trying to figure out what's going on. >> was this a normal sunday as far as someone can say or was anything out of the normal course of events? protests or anything else going on that would have related to this? >> nothing else going on. in fact, the protests have slowed down and we haven't had high profile ones. i anchored the morning show, and things were status quo. then this happened and drove right h right out. >> the alton sterling investigation is open, which is

what his family had called for. is there anything else on that story that was considered live or controversial at this point? or did they feel with federal intervention it would be worked out and it was a matter of waiting? >> it's ongoing. we haven't heard anything new to progress in that, or the other day, they haven't leaked information. i don't know what would have triggered this. it's really i think like you said, it came out of the blue. >> how often do you see the multiple homicide during the day? baton rouge? >> not often. this is definitely out of the ordinary. >> what else are you seeing on the ground in the response? we know from our reporting highways are closed and there was a heavy police presence and helicopters overhead. we are looking at the shot of highway, and several, you know, police vehicle engaged, but no

other traffic. what else can you tell us about on the ground now? >> it's really all hands on deck. we have both the parish sheriff's department is out there and the sweep department. helicopters up above, and medics coming in and out. police officers, are on the outside. i haven't been able to get into the scene because they set up a perimeter around it. >> at what time did you first hear there was something happening? and what is the time line as you understand it? >> i believe i was -- i had went home after the show to -- just to take a lunch break, and i think 8:30 is when i got notified that it was happening, so i rushed back out here. originally, i went into airline

highway, and i was, you know, trying to wave back from the scene, and we have been talking back and forth and talking with mayor holden and trying to get as much information as possible. >> before you let you go, there was a debate locally about the hate crimes law that would designate police as a potential victim of hate crimes. the first state to do that, on a day like today, this looks relevant. they were targeting police. can you give us a sense if that was a big debate locally and in terms of local policing? >> you know, from what i remember the governor very much supported that bill and i think many people in congress supported that bill. it was something of a debate, but it's a sad inconvenience that that bill's relevant to

what we are talking about today. >> robbie reynold on the ground. i want to toss back to frannen rivera. >> there was a ambush style one two shooters involved. we don't know if they are in s custody. in the past 30, 40 minutes, they have grown with police presence around this area. here's a little bit of my conversation with the mayor when they confirmed that this happened when we spoke earlier. >> please update us on the information, and the officers shot. >> the latest report. there are three officers dead, and there are several that are wounded and being attended at a

local hospital. the situation is very fluid and they are trying to get information as to whether or not there was one shooter, or two shooters, whether they are dead and going back to research what is the rationale behind this foolishness happening here. >> that was the mayor, and in my conversation with him where he did confirm to this this shooting earlier today that three officers have been killed as many as seven other officers being treated. i want to play a video here from the scene that we obtained earlier but the shots rang out. let's listen. [ gunshots gunshots ] >> clearly, you can hear the n

gunshots there. i want to bring in jim cavanaugh. we're seeing this and this presence grow. again, this could still be very much an active situation from what we have heard, especially given we don't have confirmation whether these people or person involved is in custody. >> right, frances, and that video, it sounds like the crack of a rifle. i thought i counted at least five shots. i don't know if there is more. those are timed shots. it's not rapid pulling of the trigger. those are timed and aimed shots. so we don't have the information, but it could be -- it sounds like the crack of a rifle. it sounds like timed and aimed shots. not just rapid pulling of the trigger and what we have heard about the officers, it could be that. the sniper, aiming from some

distance, which could be across the street, and then shooting them. the confrontation might be a few steps away from the officers. one officer was killed in his vehicle at 2:00 a.m. this morning, responding to a domestic call and the person ran up and shot the officer and then killed himself. the motive is not clear. he ran up and killed the milwaukee officer. police have to be on their toes and guard. intelligence has to ramp up. you can't not respond to calls, but you have to have smarter, different, and change in strategy. sometimes it's good to send an unmarked car. i'm sure we will maybe see some drones going to these calls. police using a drone to go to the call. is somebody laying and hiding?

is something wrong? an unmarked car that can cruise by to that's not the police? you will see different tactics and s.w.a.t. officers. it's time to roll out the binoculars. you need to roll away and see what's afoot. especially in baton rouge and dallas. across the country, things have to change. two-man patrol cars for a while. they have to have some, you know, beef up a little, and make sure the rifles are available. it's sad for baton rouge p.d. >> it's heart breaking and it's become the reality. we are hearing from louisiana governor edwards. he says, this is an unjustified attack when we need unity and healing. rest assured, every resource will be used to make sure the

perpetrators are brought to justice. join donna and me in praying as the details continue to unfold. everybody here at msnbc watching this. we don't know, jim, if this has been resolved. we see the number of squad cars, and we can see the flashing lights. we don't have information this has been retained or resolved. we don't know what the situation is with the shooter or shooters. stick with us as we try to gain more information and find out more. back to my colleague, ari melber. >> i want to bring in ted james, a louisiana state representative who is with the governor we heard from by his tweet, announcement about this when this news broke which was around

9:10, and 10:10 eastern time. tell us what you heard this morning. >> i spoke with the governor. i wasn't with him this morning. what we're hearing now is we have had four officers confirmed dead, three shooters, and one has been contained. two still on the loose. it's a very fluid situation, and i joined the governor in hoping and praying these killers are brought to justice as soon as possible. >> that is something we are hearing. the notion of three shooters. can you tell us the source of that information? >> i have sources from the police that have been in constant contact with me. we are just getting like i said, this is a fluid situation, and we know that one has been detained and two more on the loose. again, this information is changing by the minute.

>> but those are -- your source to be clear is baton rouge police officers who told you that by phone? >> yes, sir. >> and your sourcing then would be you were told there were up to three shooters, one detained and the other potential shooters not detained as of you said, within the last hour? >> yes. last 20 minutes. >> what else can you tell me what you know from them or other people you have discussed this shooting with? what else do you know about the nature of the attack today? >> that's all i know at this point. again, we are getting a lot of information. from what i have been told, there are witnesses that have talked to brpd. hopefully, they will contain this and bring the guys to justice pretty fast. >> what do you want to see from your community here at a time where there are concerns and

allegations about excessive police force? there's an open investigation in the alton sterling case which occurred in early july. this is unrelated and we want to be careful. soon after that, we describe what is an ambush style, and today, what do you want your community to do now? >> again, this is not the community i grew up in. i hate that baton rouge has been in the national limelight as tragic as this. we definitely support our officers and i firmly believe as a community, we will talk about what happened to sterling, and protecting our officers at the same time. this is a very, very good community. we are unified and we need to remain unified at this time of tragedy. i support our officers and i want them to go home just like i want anyone they apprehend to be

able to go home to their families. my concern and prayers are with the four officers that have been killed. i have many, many friends on the police force. my thoughts are prayers are with those officers and the police force and our city. >> understood. i want to be clear. we have confirmed three officers killed, and we are speaking with state representative, edward james who has been in touch with authorities here and four officers have been killed. that's why what you see is different than what the state representative just said. we're work, to confirm all of this. my question would be, for the larger context. you talk about the community you grew up in, for folks who are watching and sees these problems, how unusual or typical is this? i spoke to a reporter earlier, that any notion of the sunday during the day, is unusual.

put that into context before you go. >> this is not a true representation of baton rouge on a sunday hour. folks are either in church or enjoying families on an afternoon like this. the tragic events of the past week have, you know, put a lot of things into perspective. we watch these things play out across the nation, and now it's right here at our front door. mr. sterling was murdered less than a mile away from where i grew up. the precinct is less than two miles from my house. this is personal, and i will be working with folks on the ground to make sure we can get past this and heal and be the great city we are. >> representative, your understanding of how many were killed and injured today? >> right now, i have word there were four officers that were killed today. >> okay. thank you for your time today. and i can say, i'm sorry.

our thoughts and prayers are with you and this community. i want to bring back in former nypd officer, eugene o'donnell. were you able to hear some of the newest information, and your thoughts on what we know at this point? >> the danger here is this hardens people's hearts, especially in the police business. we need to try to see past this lunacy, and still protect the community that overwhelming trusts and needs them. we don't want to have no-go areas. in the national urgent, protection we protect the police officers. we protect federal officials, and we had a congresswoman shot. it's not about vindividuals. it's the people in the office can't do their job and can't protect themselves and other people. we have an agency that protects the office of the president. rightfully so.

you can imagine the maniacs running around our country saying crazy things about him every day and the gun cultur cu has to be addressed. the divefference in our countrys we have accessibility at a moment's notice. we have the atrocity, fueled by people out of their minds, able to get their hands on firearms. >> and eugene, you look at the live action scenario as best we understand, a report of shots fired. officers respond to the scene, and multiple homicide and according to some of our sourcing, the reporters of multiple shooters. with your law enforcement knowledge, walk us through what police would do in that

scenario. in dallas, the police shooting we saw with five officers dead was a single shooter. he was called a lone wolf. here, we have the possibility of multiple shooters. how do police respond to that scenario? >> it depends on how many officer. it's not a giant department, and how quickly they roll you. for a long time after you arrive on the scene, the people, if they are bad guys have the upper hand and you are at their mercy because we're in a democracy. and the saving grace of the cops is they can take cover behind something and take reasonable steps. it's important to say, and this appears to be going in one direction. there are ambushes every year of the police, and it's not like this is unheard of or directly, you know, a brand new event, but you're absolutely at the mercy of the individuals because you roll up relatively unprotected,

and it's just a common issue that there's mayhem when you roll up in these things, and it's often risky because not only are you at risk, sometimes your plain clothes officer rolling up, and you have poim people pointing at someone, and that's not a person who is guilty of anything at all. of all the pulls we go on, this would be at the top of the list of risky calls and also calls that are often hard to sort out while you have to do it in re realtime. >> i want to pass it back to frances rivera in new york. >> all right. >> following the breaking news of the of louisiana. we heard from a state representative that four officers have been killed and the mayor kip holden initially told us it was three with possibly four to seven officers

wounded from this -- what we describes, as an ambush style attack. after responding to a call of shots fired. i want to read the statement from louisiana governor, john bel edwards who reported this. he says this. this is an unspeakable and unjustified attack on all of us at a time when we need unity and healing. rest assured, every resource available will be used to bring justice. join donna and me in prays for the officers involved as the details continue to unfold. i want to go live to baton rouge as an officer is being questioned by the press. let's take a listen. >> welcome in e everybody. we're standing by live with the

local members and the baton rouge police department is set to make a statement. involving the officers, several injured and several loss of life. before we get started, what kind of a whirlwind day has it been? >> i can't make mention of that right now. we're too emotional. as soon as they come, we can get started. we are on old hammon highway, not far from the park near the intersection. we are close, just a few blocks away from where the incident happened, and i believe we're in position now. l. jean mckneely. >> we have some officers that are now deceased and were transported to the local hospital where they have died. we have a suspect. we believe there are other guys involved in this shooting, so

we're asking the community to help us, if they saw anything that looked suspicious. any vehicles out of place. if they have anything suspicious. what they were wearing, dressed in all black. masks on. please call local law enforcement. there's an ongoing scene now and a lot of guys are emotional. we have officers that have passed, guys we are close to. both sheriff and baton rouge city. we want to get the message out. if anybody in this area saw anything suspicious, please give the police department a call. we are trying to get as much information as we can, but we have guys all over the place, and we're asking for and need your assistance. >> do we know how many officers were injured and how many

fatalities? >> at least three or four, but we want to protect the family members at this time. we want the make sure they are aware of what's going on. we are contacting the family members, and we're going to respect them right now. and respect the officers. the ones that have died in the line of duty. so we're going to protect all of that and then their family. it's a tragic situation. >> what can you tell us about what happened? >> we don't have any information. we're working the scene. we don't have any specific detail as to what transpired. there's a scene by this station. we want to make sure there are no explosives around and we want the secure the scene. >> what's your advice to people in the area? >> be on the lookout because we need you. if you see any cars that might be suspicious, give us a call.

we have our agencies out here. atf, sheriff department, and all our guys working and law enforcement. it's an oin going scene, so it's fluid. we're getting a lot of information in from our guys going surveillance. we're asking the community. >> is one suspect down? >> at this particular time. down. deceased. >> how many -- >> i don't want to give specific numbers right now. we have three to four transferred to the hospital, and we believe they are deceased. all family will be notified before we give a specific number out. >> do you know how many suspects wur looking for? >> we're not sure. we believe it's more than one suspect though. we are getting it out as quickly as possible, asking the community to help us. we believe it's more than one suspect. that's why i'm giving you this

information. >> any description? >> not tutat this time. if these people are wearing army fatigue or a mask or anything out there, please give us a call. i can't get into specifics right now. if they are wearing all black or anything of army fatigue or suspicious, if they are carrying rifles, handguns, or any cars in the area that are parked on the side of the road or the street, please give us a call, because we're, woirking the scene, and this information i am giving to you, we just got and we are rushing this information out. >> is there any indication -- >> we're not sure of anything right now. >> was it a robbery or an amb h ambush? >> all we know at this particular time is there was a shooting. we believe it was multiple suspects. one suspect is deceased.

multiple officers were shot. we have some that have been killed. that's what i know for sure right now. >> what's happening behind us here? active? >> we're securing the area with the deceased suspect. is suspect that has been killed, and we're making sure no explosives are in the area. we're not 100% sure of that. we know there is more than one suspect. >> do you have reason to believe there would be explosives? >> we don't know. we're taking every precaution necessary to make sure our lives are safe. we're going to check the scene and do what we can to make sure not only us, but the citizens of baton rouge are safe. >> did you engage with the suspect? >> officers did engage and there was no talking. it was shooting. that's why we're working the scene. >> no indication -- >> we're, working the scene. >> just local? >> that's where the shooting

happened, but we can't for sure say, so that's why we're putting the word out. maybe somebody knows of someone plotting to do this and that's why we're asking for help. >> south side or -- >> we're not 100% sure. it's a combination of both. inside and outside the building. >> is the suspect down outside? >> one is down in that area over there. still, it's an ongoing investigation. i can't say we have reached his location, be you we're sending our robot in to make sure there are no explosives. >> is he -- >> he is still there, so we're checking to see if there are explosives in the area or making sure there are no explosives on him. he is dead. >> as the investigation

continues, what's the biggest priority? >> safety for officers and community. after that, we'll work the case as best as we can to find all individuals involved in this. >> suspect is deceased, is he black? white? male? >> it's the sta-- i don't want give that out. >> what time did this happen? >> i don't have the time. around 8:30. around that time. >> where were the other suspects last seen? >> i can't give you that information right now. that's where we're working. >> how -- >> we're not going to get into that. >> do we have prior indications? >> as soon as i get investigation information, i will come back and give you whatever information we have

. thank you. >> that was law enforcement in baton rouge, one officer briefing what we knows about the shootout that left at least three police officers killed. the state representative of louisiana as many as four may be dead with four to seven at local hospitals. this is a tough situation there. very trying, emotional time with one of the shooters killed in the shootout still there at the scene of the shooting near a convenient store where they are bringing robots to check for explosives around the area. also concern for the police department in baton rouge are their suspects. they believe as many as two other suspects are involved and maybe on the loose. we heard the desperate plea for the public. if anyone sees, hears anything, notices anything suspicious to contact them.

again, knowing this is very much an active scene. one of the suspects have been killed, and as many as two others are on the loose. they are ensuring the safety of ere officers at the same time with as many as three or possibly four who have died, and families are being notified, and going to the hospital to identify their loved ones. a very trying time for the police department on that front as well. this officer said in this shooting, there was no talking. it was all just an exchange of gunfire described as an ambush style attack. officers were responding to shots fired. that's the situation as we have heard from law enforcement there in baton rouge. still a very active scene as we are trying to find out what started it, and also the possibly two suspects on the loose. i want to bring in ari melber

who is in cleveland, watching as well, and certainly two-fold a tough time for these officers as they are trying to continue and find out people responsible with one suspect down, ari. yet trying to make sure they are still safe in doing so. >> that's right. thank you, frances. i have been reporting out of cleveland where security is on high. i want to bring in marquez claxton and eugene o'donnell. both former police officers. starting with you, marquez, as you look at this and the intentions in baton rouge, your thoughts on what we have learned including law enforcement saying, and i'm quoting, they believe two others may be at large. two other suspects involved in this multiple homicide in addition to one suspect they say is deceased. your thoughts? >> very active. and crime scene.

it's just important that the police now have expanded their reach and are looking for the community partners who can possibly supply additional information that they deem important moving forward with the investigation itself. without a doubt intelligence gathering will be extremely important and part of the investigation, but i suspect there will be many stories moving forward. they want to be as methodical as possible to make sure they are covering all the bases and safety approach to them in the civilian population. >> the tragedy, has the community reeling. we have now then reported as you have just heard from the chief of police the notion of several other suspects, potentially murderous suspects at large.

that is also scary, and we can see the great lengths the officers are going to to shut down roads, reports of pulling over cars. what else from an investigative perspective are they going right now to keep the community safe? >> that's for eugene o'donnell. can you hear me? i'm sorry. for jim calf novanaugcavanaugh. can you hear me, jim? >> go ahead. >> just repeating the question, jim. what would the authorities be doing to keep the community safe? >> they will be on 12-hour shifts calling in everybody and sweeping that area heavy. that will be a safe area. there will be a lot of officers, and s.w.a.t. officers, tactical officers. and the bomb squad is there. if you think somebody wanted to ambush an officer, you know, you

have to also consider that they could have left a bomb or device that would hurt officers. we have to go back to the beginning of this. how did the call come in? did it come into 911? is there a voice call? what happened? that's the beginning. then what transpired as they arrived? one person and a rifle? we heard the pio describe two or more suspects and their dwes. all in black or camouflage. is the deceased suspect dressed all in black or all in camouflage? or have witnesses reported seeing that? this is what they wanted out to the community. if there is one or more shooters involved or two fled which they seem so believe, is that somebody running because there

is shooting going on, or do they have information there are other suspects? it's not out out rule it could be into the conspiracy. >> you're referring to the notion of multiple individuals or suspects plotting together to do this. we're looking at live shots looking at military vehicles and trucks. i can tell you and you can shed light on this, and police armed with long guns were stopping individuals on the road. that's near the highway where this is located. the multiple homicide happened within a mile of the police headquarters and they spotted these police stopping two vehicles from the scene, dealing with the drivers and then letting them go.

what is going on there? a makeshift perimeter if you will? >> they don't know who they have loose there and who might be wanting to shoot them. if this shooter was dressed like the pio described, they may have some concern that there's two or more people, you know, fully dressed out ready to ambush the police that could still be in the area. that is disconcerting. you have to secure that area. you will see a lot of police with long guns, and s.w.a.t. officers. that's some of the s.w.a.t. tactical vehicles we just saw. they have to be able to go to a report of suspicious contaactorh s.w.a.t. officers who can deal with them if it comes in quickly. they have to rely on the citizens to recall there's a guy with a rifle who is dressed this

way and that requires police officers to be in uniform and wear marked clothing. they have a symbol to people know who they are, the public knows and police knows as well. you don't want to be out there in plain dloclothes. you want to have youremblems. you don't want a blue on blue shooting. this gets intense and everybody is on their game and there's a lot of people moving around, and who are they and what are they doing? >> as we are discussing the potential activities, and potential multiple suspects, there's also efforts underway, we're told to use basically police robotics to try to ascertain whether they have specifics on the shooter. police may feel an echo of

dallas. they used a robot, and given the homicide there. what happens when police are using a robot? how do they know if explosives are in play? >> the first thing is the camera. it can be sent up to the suspect, whether he is laying. inside or outside, and the camera can give you a close-up view. is he wearing a suicide belt? does he have hand grenades on his chest? they can look at him closely, and right on top of him. second, to claw. they can move and turn the body over. if there is something suspicious, they can move it away. robots are not used offensively, rarely if ever. dallas was such a unique case.

i'm supportive of how the s.w.a.t. team used it. but it's. >> reporter: -- rare. they use the microphone to bring the arm up close and move something. they have the disrupter where they can shoot a package and open it up remotely. it's used as the arms of the bomb squad remotely. that's how you have to think of it. as if the bomb squad was there, they are manipulating it from 300 meters back, wireless or sometimes by wire, and they can remotely operate that. the camera, claw, and tracks. and they can get it safely. >> if you are just joining us, we have been speaking to jim cavanaugh, former atf special agent out of baton rouge, louisiana where three officers have been killed in an ambush

style attack. several more injured, and msnbc has learned that several of the officers are considered in serious condition. there are also reports according to authorities of multiple potential suspects. one suspect deceased, and several more basically potentially on the run. authorities consider that an active scenario. i'm going back to frances rivera. >> that's the minds of the police department,as they are looking for one or two suspects on the loose, and a desperate plea we heard for the public. if they notice anything, contact police. this as word of this deadly shooting that has taken the lines of three dead police officers, and possibly four dead from this shootout. we have heard words of

condolence from john bel edwards, and now from david brown who know this is heartache too well. from the fresh loss of five police officers in class. he tweets our thoughts and prayers are with the baton rouge police. it is an active scene and they are working in this area of airline highway. we saw the s.w.a.t. tactical vehicles rushing to the scene. maybe possible tips they are getting with the plea to the public to help them as they are securing the area around a convenience store in the area where the one suspect has died, and they are using a robotic device and ro got find out if there are explosives. if they left any explosives and making sure other officers are safe. here is more of what baton rouge

police officer mckneely said while briefing the press earlier. >> we have one suspect down right now. we're checking that situation now. we believe there are other guys involved in this shooting, so that's why we're asking the community to help us if they saw anything that looked suspicious. any vehicles out of place. any guys running. if they have anything suspicious in nature they are wearing. we are working the scene. a lot of guys are emotional. we have officers that have passed. guys we were close to. both sheriff and baton rouge city. we want the get that message out as quickly as possible. if anybody saw anything suspicious, please give law enforcement a call. we don't want to get into that right now. i know at least three or four, but we want to protect the family members at this time. we want the make sure they are

aware of what's going on. we are contacting them so they can come to the hospital. we're going to respect them right now and respect the officers, the ones that died in the line of duty, and respect that and their families. we're sending our robot in to check and make sure he doesn't have any explosives on him. >> that was l. jean mckneely. he spoke with the press. he said, at this point, what happened? what was the initial call? and any confrontation? he said the officers respond to shots and there was no talking in his words. just shooting. he said it's a very difficult and emotional time for the police department coming to terms with the reality that three possibly even four of their own are dead. with those families of those officers now being notified and being asked to come to the hospital, very, very difficult as they are trying to secure

this active scene as it's been described, especially around the area. one of the suspects is down and has been killed in the shootout and making sure that area is secure, and free of any kind of explosives or other threats. i want to bring in former nypd officer jew yeeugene o'donnell. when you make sure everybody is safe, but yet, it on the side knowing that three or four of the officers have been killed. >> in the situation here, these are terrorist cells we're talking about. certainly in that city, and this has been percolating for a while. that's the cause for concern. what is the network? how far does it extend? and all the more reason that has to be emphatic law enforcement efforts cross jurisdictional.

across the country and every asset has to come in from the federal government. this is 11 police officers murdered now. it's this rhetorical lunacy from the country. you kill one of us, we'll kill two of us. this should have been repudiated much earlier and that's insane talk. i understand people are emotional, but unfortunately, as anybody in law enforcement knows, there are a lot of unbalanced people out this, and unfortunately in our country, social security all too easy for those people. that's all sides of the spect m spectrum. they can get their hands on firearms and there's a concern this is a deeper issue, and it's going to have to be addressed. it raises questions about whether we have adequate surveillance, information gathering. whether law enforcement can do its job. we have a situation where law

enforcement is hampered. they feel like sticking out their neck and doing something proactive is a problem. we have to come to terms with this and we can have a debate, but not against office to the president. this cannot be allowed this has to come down across the political spectrum. >> that's something we'll hear as we find out more and news of this horrific shooting will be spread, but when you talk about law enforcement being hampedere we heard that from david brown when he spoke in a raw, emotional way. he said, when it comes to our officers, they are carrying a lot. their load is heavy and they are being paid $40,000 a year and the load they carry and doing their jobs and keeping the

streets safe and people safe, it really is difficult, and this is what we're seeing here. when you have these police officers who this morning, i'm sure woke up knowing that this is a tense city they have been living in in light of the alton sterling shooting and protests there, and the plot that was thwarted and stopped, and those four people who had those plans to do harm or kill police with the stolen begguns and ammuniti. but it also speaks to the determination and motivation of people who want to do harm against police officers as we have seen here. they will find a way to do it. >> again, it's a broken institution and country. we have major issues on race. we have to remind ourselves here. democracy is fragile, and policing is part of the democracy. and police take special joy in undermining and paralyzing the police.

in the long run, it's the most vulnerable citizens that will be damaged by that. people are arming up and waiting for the unraveling. they are protecting black churches and nightclubs and orlando and children in sandy hook. that's their mission. where it's failing, we have to fix it. but undermining and paralyzing it is not helping. that's this will further place along that police people are going to respond slower, less deliberately, and the ordinary people on the ground who are most reasonable across the spectr spectrum, they are the ones that get damage when had this happens. when you start to say, we do already have cities where the police get there when they get there. that costs lives of people. they don't get noticed on hollywood production, but these

are ordinary people that rely on the police for public safety. that's an important conversation. we have to do soul searching and people know better. we have the moral equivalence argument, and we can't look away when that happens. this has to be pulled awarpart. we are talking about people that have decided as a group to cold-bloodedly killed the officer and they will occupy that and that's an attack on everybody in the country categorically. that's something we have to get our head around here. in the meantime, for, you know, police, you can imagine every cop in america would like to be there helping out their colleagues. and if police can't protect themselves, they can't protect the people out there to serve. >> you speak to that point when it comes to -- this is the

culture we're seeing. whit comes to law enforcement and the tensions against law enforcement officers, and the safety this jeopardized, and the safety of the public and officers themselves. >> it doesn't have to be this way, and unfortunately again, we have to all take responsibility for the divisive rhetoric going on. we haven't had one conversation about where we go from here. we haven't had conversations about who does the job. we are talking about cops making $800, $900 a week putting themselves in harm's way. how do we fix this? how do we create policing responsive, effective, and that's where most people's heads are at. most people are not extremists and they are centered on reality. and this conversation

predictably, we have seen extremism over and over again. including in the political race. it can be dangerously polarized as a result to this. because we have allowed people with the most irresponsible rhetoric to have center stage. we have to fix this police system going forward, and that's in the middle. most people want to see the police and want decency and respect and that should be achievab achievable. >> that is a sentiment that has been echoed by the baton rouge mayor when i had a conversation with him earlier in saying that this is a small percentage. it's a small representation of the city he knows and is so proud of, you yet, this is the news out of baton rouge today with three officers killed, possibly four according to a

louisiana state representative, and a few others. as many as seven other officers shot with one suspect down and as many as two others on the loose. we look at the situation where we have seen the vehicles and officers grow, and armed heavily with rifles because they are looking for possibly two suspects on the loose. one of the shooters is described as down. they are bringing in a robot to check for any kind of explosives that may have been left behind in what was described as a convenience store. this is airline highway in baton rou rouge, and we have seen a video of other vehicles rushing to the scene. we have heard the desperate plea for the public to call them if they see anything. if they see anything suspicious or dressed in dark clothing or might be masked out there.

what they call an active scene they are working in making sure that the area is safe, that the other officers are safe, and begin, as they are going through this very, very difficult and pain staking time of notifying the families and telling them to come to the hospital the identify their loved ones. as we await more information here, in tiending out details that are coming out, we have been hearing words of condolences from david brown, and john bel edwards, who calls this an unpeekable aspeakable a unjustified attack when we need unity and healing. for now, as we are trying to gather more information in this, i want to bring it back to my colleague ari melber in cleveland. >> thank you very much.

i have been reporting with the convention tomorrow. many eyes on baton rouge, louisiana where we have reports of three officers killed. at least three injured and more than one suspect. as we know, those type of reports can change over time. we are telling you what we have heard from authorities and we have been able to confirm at this juncture. with regard ott suspects, and chief of police within the last hour or so, they believe there is more than one suspect. they have one deceased and they are use a robot to search him for explosives. no reports of explosives, but that is the investigative posture as they confirm or ascertain whether they are on that deceased suspect and potentially other suspects. that doesn't mean there are, but that means the authorities are investigating that prospect. we can tell you that and these

three officers, murdered, killed in this alteration. i want to bring in jim cavanaugh and eugene o'donnell. both, perts and analysts for us. that is a reset of what we knee and authorities thing with the caveats that brings change in an active and open investigation. your thoughts, jim, having been through so many of these live action scenarios? >> they're working back from the shooter they have to see who he is. is he a member of one of these hate groups? like the new black panther group? right after dallas, the black lives matter movement issued a condemnation of all violence, but hate groups, like the black panther party and