good evening, i'm chris matthews. here we are in the hall where it all begins tomorrow. a political ritual, a four day j jamboree of political showmanship. all of the horror in baton rouge, the show here must go on. . the 2016 marriage of the traditional republican party with the new york real estate

tycoon. tomorrow here in this famous hall, the republicans will meet and nominate a national ticket to try to defeat hillary clinton. they will ready themselves for the long fight. we begin because of decency with the breaking news from baton rouge where three police officers were shot dead and three others were injured this morning. police say long was killed in the shootout. we can no longer deny the growing dangers from here in our own society. in responding to the shooting today, americans were called to remember overheated rhetoric. >> the death of the three brave

officers understand that police across the country confront every single day. attacks on police are an attack on all of us. and a rule of law that makes society possible. we're about to enter another week where our rhetoric is more overheated than usual. it is so important that everyone regardless of race, political party, or profession. regardless of the organizations you're part of, everyone right now focus on words and actions that can unite this country rather than ÷ it further. >> sarah is in baton rouge with the latest. what do we know about the alleged shooter. >> they're looking into his

background and possible motives. he was not here from baton rouge, but from kansas city, missouri. they are looking at how he got here, how long he had been here, and if the 911 call that drew officers to his location was the 155 call of a concerned citizen or something more sinister. so key questions that need to be answered here tonight. meanwhile the three police officers killed have been identified by their agencies. montrell jackson and matthew gerald, both married with children. and officer brad garafola was with the sheriff's off for 24 years. he was 45 years old. three law enforcement officers were also injured in this

attack. we're told one is in fair condition, one is being treated for nonlife threatening conditions. meanwhile the investigation continues with the huge law enforcement effort here. we're told that officers were able to get some surveillance video. we don't know adequate what if anything it shows. and we continued to look into the backgrounds and the possible motives of the gunmen in this case. >> how about the other wounded officers. is there just one in serious condition? >> great question, two of the three officers, two different police agencies, so the officer who was critically injured, he is with the east baton rouge sheriff's office. another offer is being treated for nonlife threatening injuries, and the third officer

fair condition. a lot of thoughts and prayers in the community. . >> thanks for that, sarah county there in baton rouge. cal has new information about the shooter. people are very intense and wanting to know motive, profile. >> yeah, we're starting where the investigators were starting. in these youtube videos, he says he has affiliations to no group. >> i'm affiliated with a spirit of justice. nothing else. nothing more, nothing less. all right? you see convos with cosmo. that's what i'm affiliated with. >> so what is conversations with

cosmo. it's a website which the domain name leads to an address in kansas city. there is also a twitter page, and we're searching for motive here and sometimes that is a very difficult thing. a number of these posts on the twitter page would lead us to believe, again, that the shooter had something against the police. he tweets on july the 7th, since 2 2000, 149 people have died at the hands of police, so far none have been charged in those deaths, and he tweeted in the morning just because you wake up every morning doesn't mean you're living, and just because you shed your physical body doesn't mean you're dead. so police will be looking at the digital footprint to try to find

a motive for the shooting. >> how active was he online. >> he was incredibly active. he had something, he called himself a nutritionist, a personal trainer. he gaye as viet to men on books and movies. i don't think many people looked at this stuff. he had a blog, anyone can have a blog, but no, it was not heavily followed, it is a great deal of digging just to find the blog. he was not well followed, not widely followed, but extensive. we're talking about hundreds and thousands of tweets. hundreds of videos, and it will take a long time for investigators to go through all of this. >> he seems to have creating the universe around himself that he

happily inhabits. how did he go to being a virtual person doing harmless stuff to becoming active and moving into baton rouge, going there for this purpose. >> no, and how did he move from being a decorated marine , to going to texas, protesting police violence he said with a body camera. how did he go frk that to what he saw today. between the dallas shooting and the shooting today, we have two former members of the military kill eight police and injury a number of them and veterans. roughly 20 veterans commit suicide every day in the united states. that's according to the veteran's administration. i think we will talk about guns

a lot. >> i'm amazed at how well you have done today in just a few hours. thank you so much. let's go to another expert. malco malcolm, what do you see when you look at this? >> i see a complete jumble of potential ideology and mixing with some of the circumstantial evidence we're getting from the webb. we know he was a former military person, a marine. the use of a rouse as opposed to a protest, very significant, but what i think is even more, and it has not been confirmed yet, but if yo go do some of the internet searching, the wall street journal said he may have been related to an

anti-government extremist group called the -- we'll reserve that, which may have been involved in many cases of fraud, and gets people like this, who have mental defects, to believe they have no obligations to the united states. and that the united states has no ability to attack and control them. as i train around the united states, groups that belong to these organizations are the first people that will go to guns with you. they are arguably more dangerous than isis on a day to day basis in the united states. >> u.s. congressman gary graves represents the baton rouge area. how is the reaction, how is the community there in baton rouge?

>> this is something that people, right here in our own backyard, the first response from many people is that this is not us this is not our community. it is trying to broaden the divide that already was in place as the result of the alton sterling shooting. . >> you wonder the role that race and ethnicity played in all of this, and you see the alleged shooter here, african-american guy, one of the people killed, an african-american guy and it is just so horrible. the whole thing is just violence is violence. how does this play in terms of the police forces in your area? how do people look at this in

terms of what happened a few weeks ago. >> police officers looked like they could bench press a car and these guys had tears in their eyes. i talked to family members of police officers in our community. it is really tearing us apart to have the police force concerned like that about their safety and their security. these are people that are under paid. these people are putting their lives on the line on a daily basis and signed up to be the brave folks running forward the gunfire when others are running away from it if is wrong. preventing the outside folks from coming in and turning in the intensity of the debates. we had very constructive dialogue crossing all sorts of folks in this community nap is what we need to be focusing on.

>> the president said today that an attack on any police officers is an attack on all of us. >> this was an attack on our community, and it was designed to proliferate hatred. we need to define the future, we need to redefine the narrative, and bridge the gap between people in this case and absolutely support our law enforcement community to prevent them from having more deaths and violence like we have seen. >> thank you for coming on in this night of tragedy. we'll continue to track the late nest baton rouge throughout the our. donald trump and mike pence will give their first interview together, our coverage continues after this. miles from home.

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the crisis today is because of the failed policies of the last eight years. people living in american cities are worse off. obama promised things would be better, but they're not. jobless rates are higher. the unrest is more tense. the distrust of law enforcement is more acute than ever. it is probably because things start at the top. >> welcome back to this special edition of "hardball." that was trump campaign manager paul manafort about why president obama's policies are to blame for the recent unrest in america's city's. a new nbc poll shows hillary clinton showing a five point lead over trump.

why is the republican national committee saying day one, the convention is making america safe again. which includes here at home and foreign policy. throughout his campaign, hillary clinton slammed trump for his his opinion on the iraq war. he explained why he has a hard time giving mike pence a pass on that vote. >> that was a war by the way. that was a war we should not have been in because iraq did not knock down. >> your running mate voted for it. >> i don't care. >> what do you mean? i don't care, it was a long time, they were mislead -- >> but you harped on it. i was against it from the beginning. >> but you used that vote of hillary's that was the same. >> as the example of her bad judgment. >> many people have and frankly i'm one of the few that were

right. he is entitled to make a mistake once in awhile, she is not. >> michael, i will defend trump on this ground, it would hard to find a republican that didn't support the war, but how does he explain bashing her on the vote. >> i think what they need to do and this was a moment when you roll out the candidate, you realize we have not really talked this part through yet. there is going to be at love of that in the next few days and weeks. someone with a lot of positions outside of. >> he had three doors to hope.

one was newt, one was chris christie, all three of them were for the iraq war. the republican party was for the iraq war. >> all three hawks. >> but he is not putting out mike pence for commander in chief. >> but it about junction. . if you hold hillary clinton to judgment, you have to hold mike pence for the same. he saying he was against it before the war, the only time we have him saying anything in history, before the war, he was for it. he said stupid people, his words, stupid people have given us nafta and capta.

>> he didn't revise it last night. in this 60 minutes saying it will apply to people from certain territories. let's just leave this alone. fact is trump revised this from being against muslims to people of some countries. >> people can't believe that pence is going behind trump's muslim ban. >> he is supporting it as it is now. >> pence's values, they don't think that clicks. is pence a george w. bush republican. he is a hawk, but more complicated on economics. he was against no child left behind, domestic policy, bank bailouts. >> is it the right question to a vice president candidate can you support the nominee of your party for president. your job is to get in line. it's not trump's headlijob to g

line with mike pence. >> it it doesn't matter where mike pence was, it matters where donald trump is. and mike pence is not running for president, he is running for vice president. so that is the dynamic of the argument that trump will make going forward. >> we talk about ideology all of the time. to explain police shootings, the heat between a lot of people, a lot of african-americans or other people, angry at cops right now. his explanation is not some sociological discussion, it's economics. it is not about morality. this is the kind of thing that erupts. >> but he did that to fall into trump's critique that everything

stinks under obama. >> but bernie says this kind of stuff. >> he said things are worse now under obama. the unemployment rate is half what it was when obama came into officer. >> but why is he arguing what used to be an old left-wing argument? >> because the critique that things are really lousy now and obama is responsible for it. >> people feel that way. it's not like they're making it up. they're getting feed back from real people across the country. so he is bringing back, in a big way. >> you're saying the people in the republican left, and center, and right, you know why we have so much anger? why we're having so much fight, is because of jobs being

hollowed out. >> it is the under lying argument. the animating argument for a lot of blue collar workers out there. >> it's all part of a growing narrative. >> you look at how paul manafort talks about it, this is not just an economic argument. i think the campaign and the candidate have different tunes. >> manafort is talking rational, and trump is emotional. he is trying to get the blue collar voters and he is trying to reflect what they feel. >> an interesting period of adjustment among manafort, mike pence, and donald trump. michael steele, thank you.

the political reaction to what happened today in baton rouge. the president calling for a lowering of overheated rhetoric heading into the two weeks of political coverage. our coverage continues in cleveland after this.

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regardless of motive, the death of these three brave officers under scores the dangers that police across the country confront every single day. we have to be loud and clear that nothing justified violence on law enforcement. >> that was president obama reacting to the events earlier in baton rouge. there is no information for violence, hate, and attacks on women. donald trump took on the president in his response tweeting that president obama just had a news conference but doesn't have a clue. joining us is mayor holden of

baton rouge. how is your city doing? >> we're hanging in, the situation is very fluid in terms of what is going on. officers are transitions from one situation to another, but they're holding up well. now we're trying to make sure the families of officers killed are taken care off, and we're trying to let our city know that we're going to move forward and not let anyone hold us back. >> this is another one of these horrific situations. again, white officers, an african-american officer, killed today. >> yes, a very, very sad story. when you go into the hospital room of an officer's family and

a 5-year-old child saying i know my daddy is not dead, and he is coming home tonight, and the mom saying i'm left raising four kids, that's a call to us that we must comfort these families and let them know they're not in it alone. we can't bring their father back, but the efforts he put forward for us on our safety will not be in vein. >> an attack on the police officer is an attack on all of us. >> yes, sir, and i will tell you this, we have to come together. this is one nation under guard with liberty and justice for all. >> well said, thank you for joining us. how is this, this the context of that, working out for the president who called for calm today, and donald trump who

stuck back with strong language. >> it will be predictive of who wins in ohio. out in those urban counties, middle class, it is an economic argument. paul manafort is right on that. and trump will get those voters. the question is after baton rou rouge; nice, france. can donald trump not be a divisive relationship. the president said an hour earlier said the country is a

crime scene. he can't just win on the excerpts around cleveland. he has to get republican leading men. so the temptation he has on twitter is different from what he has to do in the hall. >> that is the question. he wants to make the accusation, he thinks he can divide and concur the country. i think president obama baited him and said calm down, please, and trump did the opposite. >> thursday night on his podium, he will give a speech. will did be approved ahead of

time, will it be written, will his kids say you can't say that? >> i know the people around trump, the key is trying to make him think what he is going to do is his idea, not your idea. but i think he has to decide if he is capable of that. i think that is the only way he can win. i don't think he can win strikely on division. he can get close, but the country is changing very rapidly. >> he cannot, and i think he has to address -- forget the african-american vote, the hispanic vote. if he is going to win it with white people, he needs more white people.

>> was pence smart? i thought it was. >> given the available options, absolutely. predominantly white. that was helpful. women who are pro life were solidified for trump by that pick. it is more than trump realizes, whether or not trump will be head -- if he remains preposterous, it will be hard for him to win. >> if you're here, you see something different you don't see on the tube. people love coming here. everybody has a time of their life. the people in the crowd, they're all selfies, pictures, everybody is in a great mood. but people are coming for trouble. there are people who want to

shut it down. what does trump do when people are causing trouble, how will he react to that. can he stay calm? >> i think he will have to. let me stay first, chris, having been out on the streets of cleveland today, people were clapping and cheering for the police as they walked around. yesterday you thought wait, there are too many police around here. today the mood was different on the street. they want them there, they were cheering for them, and that is happening around the country. that doesn't mean that trump should take that upper hand and grind it into the opposition. he has to figure tout be who he is and magnanimous at the same time. >> it would be nice if people who are not necessarily organized with black lives, but

understand the sentiment, and say to the mothers worried about their african-american kids, i get it, i know why you're afraid, can he do that? >> i don't know. >> thank you, howard. we have more coming up when we come back after this. ♪ what are you doing? sara, i love you, and... [phone rings] ah, it's my brother. keep going... sara, will you marry... [phone rings again] what do you want, todd????

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we're back and we continue to follow developments that we have been tracking all day. right now with me is jim cavanagh. thank you again, we always have you on, but what times when we do have you on, it is horrible. have you been able to figure out the crime itself that lead to the death of the three officers? >> everything is spilling out online. it appears there was no under lying crime.

>> what led to the incident in how did it begin and play out? right, i'm sorry that's what i was leading up to. there wasn't any other crime there doesn't seem to be other than the shooting of the officers. it looks like he had the gun, the mask, dressed in all black, maybe shooting the gun in the air or just spotted with the gun. there is no robbery, murder, or carjacking, so it seems he lured the officers in. >> usually these people, they like a big hit, international, airport, lots of people, death, and horror. and that meets whatever tragic purpose they have at the end of their life. this seemed to be pretty small in that regard. >> i agree, but small of major

mass loaded. going out, and he will shoot it with the police. he certainly wants to kill the game. he targeted them, slowly shot them, we heard the shots on the video. big in his little loser mind. a sad day for american law enforcement. just another loser with a heart full of hate. there are hate groups, these black separatist groups, he may have identified with but that doesn't mean he was a member of. maybe she just a morning type guy or just a madman.

>> what is this at the police station or the water cooler or the coffee shop. when they get back together at the station house, what do you think the conversation is in the patrol and squad cars now about being a police officer in 2016? i think they know because of the intelligence that we put out all of the time about the groups that want to harm them, shoot them. besides your other run of the mill criminal that's will shoot you just for their greed, but they know about these groups and even though they're a small percentage of the population. they see that all of the time, they know about that all of the time, and it's on their minds, they're on edge. they will change their posture in the immediate time frame. but they will be there, doing policing, and democracy will go

on. they are tough, strong, and they will get through this. >> god bless them, good for them. when we come back, more about what we can expect this week here in cleveland as donald trump is nominated for president by the republican party. i have great history, some of the great speeches in history. back after this. you're here to buy a car.

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>> i accept your nomination for the presidency of the united states. >> i accept your nomination for president. >> i proudly accept your nomination. >> welcome back to "hardball." conventions are intended to bring people together. the 1964 barry goldwater needed to broaden his appeal, but he choose defiance instead. >> i remind you that extremism, and the defense of liberty is no vice. and let me remind you also that moderation in the per suit of justice, is no virtue. >> that ripped the scab off. george hw bush had to con vens

the reagan faithful that he would succeed. here is how he truly rose to the occasion. >> elegance woiuldn't drill oil from the ground. i may a little awkward, but there is no doubt of my love of country. and i'm a quiet man -- i'm a quiet man, but i hear the quiet people others don't. the ones who raise the family, pay the taxes, meet the mortgage. and i hear them and i am moved and their concerns are mine. >> and that worked, i can tell you i was in the hall that night, but sometimes the will to win is overtaken by sheer side

logical ferver. and a few years later, patrick jay bucanan stuck it to the liberals. >> my friends, my like many of last month, i watched that giant mascarade ball in madison square garden. it was the great essex ambition of cross dressing in american history. we must take back our cities, our culture, and take back our

country. >> and our guests are joining us now. elise, your shot here. there was good qualities here, how does trump learn from those. >> he needs to be more h.w. bush than bucanan. what if we had a leader like bucanan step up right now. >> suppose peggy noonan was writing for him. >> trump needs a good speech writer, but it is about the man himself. >> so you decided on him, it is no good, he is over. >> i am fortunately, i would like to see him grow and change, i they is a little bit stupid to expect that, though. >> you think he is finished?

>> no. i think the american public may vote him into officer because he is up against a weak and terrible candidate that a large portion of the country thinks should be in jail. >> he has to do what george h.w. bush did. he has to do humility. i don't think his brand is that, but i think he has to show himself and also be presidential. he has to show which he be true to the people. he got here by bragging. >> does he have the nerve to do something nobody has ever done before? >> will he go out behind the podium and just speak impromptu? just streams of conscious. >> i think the stage is so big, and this is a national audience,

and i think he will have notes or a teleprompter. >> what did we learn here about when you want to show your guts and say screw you, but then you lose. >> bucanan was not -- gold water lost historically by huge margins. >> goldwater didn't give a damn, he would say what he want today say. >> trump is pretty good at reading and responding to a crowd, but they are usually his crowd. he knows he will be on tv at this convention. but does this room, what is the reaction in the room? do the juices start to flow. they could have a great spe

speaker -- >> i spoke to a delegate yesterday who says donald trump was his 20th choice. people are coming to support the rnc, they support trump, but they want to see more than the trump show. >> i watched this yesterday. i thought he gave a great speech and he is revving up to give a bigger one. >> let's see if donald trump lets him have that moment. he gets to give a period, bru does it go from there. >> people were not talking about pence's speech, they were talk about when trump was speaking, mike pence was leek an afterthought. >> let me tell you what i heard from pence, they used to call them keynote speeches and they have them. it is a rile up the party base. the people that go to the

meetings from the time they're 18 and are republicans for life. he went after obama, he went after him on leading from behind, a phrase that doesn't work. blurring and crossing red lines, we know what syria was. we very familiarly wept after the weaknesses that top people in the administration say that was a weakness. >> i think so, too. i think pence is smart on that stuff. >> yes, and i think that adding pence, the fact that he was able to add this person who, when you watch him, he is the opposite experience of trump. after trump had a 30 minute long meandering conversation, and finally got around to his pick, he got to -- >> he was using the national television time on all of the cable networks to exploit.

that's what he was doing. >> of course he is talking about his platform, but at the same time he has to with foe cutted up there. >> how will he respond to the horror that happened today in baton rouge? >> i first night of the convention is law and order. he will be start and he will try to use the moment, cynical or not, you hope he doesn't stoke near fears and exacerbate those fears. >> thank you, elise, jordan. thank you, that does it for us. our coverage will continue in a minute with lawrence o'donnell.

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as a nation we have to be loud and clear. >> today at approximately 8:40 a.m., several law enforcement officers were shot near airline highway. >> if the police officers who engaged with the suspects had any kind of dialogue with him, he told me flat out there was no talking,