as a nation we have to be loud and clear. >> today at approximately 8:40 a.m., several law enforcement officers were shot near airline highway. >> if the police officers who engaged with the suspects had any kind of dialogue with him, he told me flat out there was no talking, just shooting. >> shots fired, officer down.

>> all federal law enforcement assets need ld be given to this investigation. >> we believe the person that shot and killed our officers were shot was killed at the scene. >> everyone focus on words and actions that can unite us. >> only we can prove that we have the grace and the character and the common humanity to end this kind of senseless violence. >> the shooting that killed three police officers is being called an ambush by that city's mayor. >> today at approximately 8:40 a.m., a call came in to central

dispatch saying there was a guy carrying a weapon, carrying a rival, walking in that particular area. at approximately 8:40 a.m., police officers observed the individual wearing all black, standing behind a beauty supply store holding a rifle. about 8:42 a.m., a shots fired resport. and 8:45, reports received of more shots being fired. at 8:46, reports received of the suspect, again wearing all black, standing near a car wash, located next to the convenience store. officers engaged the subject at that particular time and he ultimately died at the scene. >> at the end of the day today, president obama said this. most of all, our hearts go out

to the families who are grieving. our prayers go do the officer still fighting for his life. we need to temper our words and open our hearts. that is what is needed right now. and it is up to all of us to be part of the solution, not the problem. >> those killed included brad garafola. he was married with three kids. his wife told a local paper it was the last shift he was going to work before they were going to go on vacation tomorrow. brad garafola was 45 years old. also killed this morning was officer matthew gerald, he served in the army and the marines. friends told the washington post

he had been deployed to iraq three times. matthew gerald was married and the father of two daughters. he was 41 years old. officer montrell jackson served ten years in the baton rouge police department. he was married with a 4 month old son. he was 32 and had been with the force for ten years. on facebook after july 8th, after days of protest, officer montrell jackson posted this. i'm tired physically and emotionally. disappointed in some family, friends, and officers for some reckless comments, but hey what's in your heart is in your heart. i still love you all because hate takes too much energy, but i definitely won't be looking at you the same. thank you to everyone that reached out to me and my wife, it was needed and much

appreciated. i swear i love it city, but i wonder if the city loves me. i get hateful nasty looks in uniform, and out of uniform i get threats. the last three days have tested me to the core. when people you know question your integrity, you realize they don't know you at all. look at my actions, they speak loud and clear. finally i want to send prayers out to everyone directly affected by this tragedy. these are trying times, please don't late hate infect your heart. the city must and will get better. i'm working in these streets so any protestors, officers, friends, family, or whoever. if you see me, need a hug, or want to say a prayer, i got you. a short time ago here on msnbc,

we talked to an eyewitness that saw that shooting. >> tell us from the gipping, where were you, what were you doing this morning? what was your first understanding of what you were hearing and then seeing? >> i pulled up to a house directly behind the hair salon and party city. we heard a lot of loud noise. if you hear one or two shots, you know it is a shot, but when you hear 25 or 30, you realize it's a gun, is someone shooting a gun 25 times. so i thought i'm going to walk over there, check it out, see what's going on. i got to the street and i looked over and about 80 yards out was a man lying face down on the

concrete. and what i assumed is that it was a civilian because he was in civilian clothes. laying on the ground. by the time i come to, and out of shock, i realized there was another man inside that was running towards me, but he had an assault rival in his hachbds, and when he got about 40 yards in front of me, halfway between me and the other man, he turned, he stopped in his place, and we kind of, he turned around and ran opposite directions, he ran towards the man, and i ran back to my job site where i was at. at this time was there no officers around, just one man playing on the ground. and it wasn't even a minute

later, maybe 30 seconds later, a bunch of officers were in the parking lot and you could still hear gunfire going off. >> joining us now, msnbc editor cal perry. news have been developing by the hour about the shooter. what is the latest, what do we know now? >> we know he served in the united states marine corp. we know he did a tour in iraq. we also found a treasure-trove of stuff online from the past year that he posted calling himself convos with cosmo. a freedom strategist, a nutritionist and spiritual advisory. there is a lot of strange stuff,

and i will and i will not be covering everything. he talks about police in america. on july the 10th, he was in dallas, he did a march, and he wore a body cam. perhaps most chilling was a tweet he put out this morning at 1:12 a.m. on july 17th, just because you wake up every day doesn't mean you're living, and just because you shed your fiscal body doesn't mean you're dead. investigators are going to start with this, build from this, figure out what the motive was behind the attack. it was a lot. more than 1,000 tweets. he had a you tube page with literally over 100 videos on it. >> in the information that we have picked up about him being in dallas, is there anything in that information about what weapons he might have had with him in dallas?

>> no, nothing on his pages that would indicate that he had weapons. it seems he was doing advocacy, walking the streets of dallas, but after that shooting in dallas. but he also seemed to have an obsession with body cameras on the police or his own persons. he wore them and then he would post the video on to youtube. i think that will be important in the investigation whether or not this is something he did during the attack. did he film in? there was clearly an obsession with these body cameras. >> joining me now, tara hall. what do we know now, tara? >> mishave just now opened up the scene. it has been closed, all of the

streets surrounding the home where they believe the suspect has a relationship to a homeowner or lived there themselves. we arrived on the scene several hours ago. we talked to a man who lived or informs that moment that the suspect is believed to have some connection too. he refused an interview. mess arrived on the scene, they took that man into custody. were not sure if he was taken into custody or for a formal arrest. >> we're going to take a break in our coverage, we'll be right back. ck ruining your perfect record. yeah. now you would think your insurance company would cut you some slack, right? no, your insurance rates go through the roof. your perfect record doesn't get you anything. anything. perfect. for drivers with accident forgiveness,

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keeping the power lines clear,my job to protect public safety, while also protecting the environment. the natural world is a beautiful thing, the work that we do helps us protect it. public education is definitely a big part of our job, to teach our customers about the best type of trees to plant around the power lines. we want to keep the power on for our customers. we want to keep our community safe. this is our community, this is where we live. we need to make sure that we have a beautiful place for our children to live. together, we're building a better california. the president of the cleveland police patrolman's union asked governor kasich the right to publicly carry guns during the convention in

chooef cleveland. >> there is very passionate people on both sides of the speck truck. the last thing we need is to introduce weapons into that. so we're reaching out to our leadership. to governor kasich. if he can't do it, he can help us. >> governor kasich saying ohio governors do not have the power to arbitrarily suspend federal or state constitutional rights or state laws. nbc's jacob rascone joins us with the latest. >> we saw today the first open carry protest, but only one person showed up. he showed up with his rival and a handgun said he wanted to make a statement. now you heard the president of the association talk there, and then the governor saying he

doesn't have the power. we also spoke to the deputy chief. they say they're well aware of the groups planning to bring their weapons. a lot of officers say what they're most concerned about is those bringing concealed weapons which, if anything, will go horribly wrong. that is the case. . i want to quickly show you over here. this is a list of items you cannot bring inside here. they include firearms, knives, explosives, fire works, baseballs, umbrellas, even whole fruit. that is in the secret service secure zone. in the event zone, you can bring firearms but not any of that stuff, so you may be looking at some video, a protest earlier today, a trial run. a lot of anger and protest with the protestors. here is what one said. >> trump is one of the reasons

we came, but it is bigger than trump. it is about hillary, aka killary clinton. neither one have served the needs of the oppresses, the marginaliz marginalized. >> so you're going to hear a lot of voices during this week. you have 123 permits to protest granted. you have all sorts of groups coming, and police did everything we expected them to do. they kept their distance until they got close to downtown and then they turned them around. speaking to the officers in charge of the investigation there, gabe? >> yeah, the superintendent from the state police and the baton

rouge police chief. they are reiterating this was an ambush. this gunman wanted to target police officers and that it had no connection to the previous case last week where they announced several arrests regarding a lot to kill police officers. they say it has nothing to do with that. let's take a listen to our conversation with those heading up the investigation. >> what can you tell me about the investigation? did the gunman act alone? >> what we do know is it was very chaotic earlier this morning. active shooter scenarios were going out. a lot of people thought we had additional shooters. that was not the case. we know the individual that the police officers shot and killed was the individual that shot those officers. here is the deal though, there is a lot of moving parts. it has been so critical not to

name names at this point. we have investigators on the state and local side, we don't want to put them in harm's way. we have not given out any information because we're working very closely with the chief and the sheriff and we want to make sure we keep them safe. we'll be thorough, we'll get the information as we move forward. it is nude, sensitive, and still a lot of moving parts. >> early on, the mayor referred to this as an ambush style attack. is that what it snfs. >> we believe they were specifically targeting police officers. a lot of moving parts out there, but the use of the word ambush, there is no doubt in my mind that was the case as we saw what

unfolded. a horrible, graphic situation. seeing my brothers, talking to the family, a very, very sad situation. we need the thoughts and prayers of the nation now. we need it in baton rouge. >> federal law enforcement officials revealed the name of the suspect. he seems to have left quite the digital trail. what can you tell us about that, how much are you looking into it digital trail. >> we have not named the suspect. we have seen it on tv, but we want to do it from fingerprints and everything else involved in this. this is a complicated case. we're going to do everything we can to make sure we know everything about this particular gentleman. that is what is point to us. just because of the fact he was

shot and killed at the scene doesn't mean the case is over. e want to make sure he was not working with anyone else, that no one else was involved, and that the police officers working the case are safe. >> a question that has surfaced is the initial 911 call that came in, was that someone trying to lure police officers or someone reporting -- >> based on the initial phone call that came in, it was someone calling in, a guy with a gun. that is all they said, but there was witnesses at the scene calling in also, you can see that on the tape, so right now there is no indication they were trying to lure someone here. >> so that initial person calling 911, thaw just saw

someone with a gun and they call it'd in? >> that is what we believe. >> and were shots fired before the 9 11 call, or did the person just see someone with a gun? >> a lot of moving parts. i want to be careful, but the shots came after that phone call was made and into police communications. >> how heroic were the officers that got in the gunfight with that suspect as they rolled up to the scene. did he fire -- >> i don't even know it heros is the word, they were beyond that. to watch it unfold, the police officers, clearly hero is a good word, but there is something, basically, good basic grammar and english language, but the

situation is -- >> if i can ask you about officer jackson, what can you tell me about him. he had been on the force for ten years and he had a young child? >> montrell was a very good police officer. he would do everything for you. soft spoken but a big man. a big heart. i just talked to him a couple of days ago in the district and he was trying to lift me up. so that just tells you about his character. matthew, he has not be here that long. he had been in law enforcement at another agency for a little while. a great officer, just ran to the gunfire instead of away from it. >> what can you tell me about the other officer? >> that was matthew, just got out of the academy several months ago. he was on his own now and was

doing really well. like i said, you know these -- they were above heros. serve running away from the gunfire, and these guys were going to it. >> what can you tell me about the sheriff's deputy that was killed and the one that remains in critical condition. >> i think there was some confusion about the number. there was two baton rouge police officers lost today. one is injured. i had a deputy killed at the scene, another who is in very critical condition and is fighting for his life now, and a third who is undergoing a surgery and will have two more surgeries, but he is expected to live and he is in the hospital. all three of these deputies, all of them, family men, have

children. they are just good guys. just trying to do their jobs at public servants out here, serving the public. the mother of the deputy fighting for his life right now, she told me tonight when he got home last night they were talking. he stopped on the side of the road to help a lady change a fire for two hours. just the kind of guys you want in law enforcement. those that come in here and have a true servant heart and a true servant mentality. great public servants. >> can you say how many times he was shot? >> two times in the torso and one time in the head. >> i appreciate you taking the time, colonel, is there anything else you would like to add? >> no, they were incredible and extraordinary. >> i guess the larger question, the other thing is as well, just last week you were talking about

announcing several arrests for stolen weapons and at the time you said you believed it was part of a plot to kill law enforcement officers, this doesn't seem connected in any way to that. >> no reason to believe that is connected to this. what happened at that pawnshop, that was a police officer getting to scene fast enough to be able to arrest the individuals as they left the pawnshop. they said they're intention was to use the guns to hurt police officers. so a lot of different things, but we do not believe the two cases are connected. >> thank you very much, i appreciate your time. >> good luck to you guys. >> chief, thank you very much. thank you very much, i appreciate your time.

>> we're learning more about those officers that were killed as well as the injured. and the key take away from that interview as w is initially there had been a concern that perhaps that 911 caller may have been involved, may have had one theory floating around, perhaps that person was trying to lure officers to the scene. we now know that was not the case. we believe the gunman was acting alone. still the investigation is ongoing and they're checking to see if there is anyone that knew of his plans along the way. >> an extraordinary interview with the leaders of these investigations. you had the state police colonel. they have never been through a night like this in louisiana. this kind of loss of life, how are they holding up? you observed with other police officers under this kind of stress and other stories around the country and situations like

this. they're going there a day like they have never been through a day in their lives. >> yeah, a very difficult day for them. they took time out of the investigation to speak with us. they seem visibly tired. we spoke with them before and he has been through tragedies before. the theater shooting here in louisiana, and just a few weeks ago, the alton sterling investigation, they were daeing with a lot back then. but this is really hitting home for them. three law enforcement officials, three law enforcement officers shot dead. several others fighting for their lives. and yes, it has been a very difficult day here in baton rouge and for law enforcement

across the country. >> thank you very much for joining us with that important interview, really appreciate it. we're joined now by malcolm nance. also eugene o'donnell. a former police officer with the new york city police department. eugene, i want to go to you to get your reaction as a former police officer yourself. the facts as they have been developing tonight in this case. >> bluntly, this man, this shooter, apparently was in dallas. is there a larger group of people traveling inner state that are not civil rights people, but people who are up to no good. so law enforcement will have to ramp it up and look backwards now at these events.

identify people there not there for legitimate reasons, but because they planned to cause disruption, or they're planning in the future, this is a person that does not belong in dallas, and does not belong in baton rouge to be sure. >> i took a look throughout the day. theize logical spectrum that this individual was trying to foster on the internet. his ideological spectrum. he was associated with some anti-government groups. what it was that drove him over

the edge? did he intend to reach a global audience beyond the immediate victims? so i really, really would like to know more about what was going on in the shooter's mind and exactly who and what he thought he was doing this act for. and for officer montrell jackson, we have a facebook postthat went viral last week, after three days of trouble and disturbance in baton rouge where he worked as a police officer after the police shooting and killing of alton sterling there. i read that facebook post in full at the beginning of the show tonight, and he talked about the difficulty of those three days. he talked about, the first line was i'm tired physically and emotionally. he very directly expressed his

si sympathies to alton sterling's family. you see the complexity of his life. that black police officer's life in that community over the period of this controversy. and all of the strains from every direction from his job, from the department, from his friends, people he thought were his friends, and it is a telling confession about police life today. >> it is a job that puts you in conflict. that is something you have to traverse. the cops are not the fire department. they have a job to tell people things they don't want to do. so there is a friction involved. every cop in the country, generally, is experiencing a level of in your face-ism.

people flashing cameras in their face, people part of this agency, but this is not a mon monolithic. they have to do the difficult job, and not become delicious. that is not always easy to do but the country is getting a perspective on the best kind of mind-set, putting the community above self is really reflected in this post. >> everything we have been reading about the shooter indicate that's no matter how peculiar his beliefs might have been, he had a lot of beliefs held by millions out there that don't do this kind of thing,

there is also evidence all around of him being mentally disturb disturbed. that seems to be true of the dallas shooter. these are both military veterans, both of whom have served in iraq. is there a contagin that could affect a vulnerable mind like the person doing this today. >> i'm almost sorry you asked the question. it will not manifest itself. after the dallas shooting, did he have fellow travelers, in fact like the type of terrorism you see over seas, this can

inspire other individuals who may have their own personal desires, messages, their own mental defects to carry out a revenge shooting in the same way. we'll get information about some of the motivations of this particular shooter, but are we -- have we created a chain reaction of individuals who may start taking actions in their own hands that have nothing to do with the social movements and social protests and all see themselves lengthed together through their personal -- i trained law enforcement by the puns every month. let me tell you if that were to occur, you would really see a state of seeing among the united states police force. unlike the seeing they think they're under with civil unrest and civil disobedience. >> thank you both for joining

us, really appreciate it. >> a quick break and we'll be right back. [ bell rings ] oh, hey, jamie, can you hang back a sec? ♪ you wanna tell me about the boy in this painting? i dunno...maybe nobody understands him. well, if he were here, i'd say that being different is what makes him special. just like our discounts -- each one is unique, but together, they help save our customers a lot of money. okay. pop quiz, who's my favorite student? gwen? yeah! it's gwen. yeah, gwen's the best.

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once again, president obama had to address the nation about a murderous attack on police officers. >> regardless of motive, the death of these three brave officers underscores what police confront every single day. we as a nation has v to be loud and clear that nothing justified violence against law enforcement. attacks on police are an attack on all of us. and the rule of law that makes society possible. five days ago, i travelled to tallahass dallas for the memorial service of the officers slain there. i said that killer not be the last person that makes us turn on each or, nor will today's killer. it remains up to us to make sure

they fail. that decision is all of ours. the decision to make sure that our best selves are reflected across america. not our worst. that is up to us. we have our devisions and they are not new. around the clock news cycles fuel this. and that is why it is so important that everyone, regardless of race or political party, or profession. regardless of the organizations you're part of, everyone focus on words and actions that can you -- unite this country.

a bullet need only happen once, but for peace to work, we need to be reminded of it's existence again and again and again. only we can prove through words and through deads, they need to be divided again and again and again. that's how the country gets united. that is who we have the capacity to be, and that is the best way to honor the sacrifice of the brave police officers taken from us again this morning. >> the presidential campaigns were supposed to be the big news today. a new poll with a margin of error of 3.1% shows hillary clinton at 41%, donald trump at 5%, gary johnson at 11%, and jill stein at 6%.

mike pence and donald trump did their first interview together tonight, but if you want to hear from mike pence, you will have to wait until he did one without donald trump. >> do you agree with that. in indiana we suspended the syrian refugee program in the wake of the terrorist attack. we have no higher priority than the safety and security of the people of this country and donald trump is right to articulate that view. >> in december you tweeted calls to ban muslims from entering the u.s. are offensive and unconstitutional. >> so we'll call it territories. won't let people who come in from syria when people don't know who they are. >> steve, apparently not a lot

of rehearsal before the interview. mike pence doesn't seem to know that donald trump moved off of the banning of muslims to the bannings of countries. and so mike pence leaps in with yes, i agree on the muslim ban, and then donald trump says no, you don't have to. >> remarkable. it is always something that a presidential candidate has to do, the positions don't align across the board. often times, you they talk about it as vodoo economics.

>> this is one of the day one things. here is what he gets to say when they say this or that about the disagreement. all of the questions asked tonight are not particularly difficult to rest at at. clearly no preparation. and it is interesting when you thbt about what his vice preside presidentcy task is. really the moderner lavr era. the vice president's power flowing directly from his relationship with the president of the united states. other than that, he just has to be president of the senate. >> let's look at something else they should have seen coming.

the question about john mccain and apparently they didn't rehearse this either. >> do you think she is not a heo because he was not captured. >> do you think he went too far. >> you can say yes, i like john mccain, but we have to take care of our families. >> katherine, you can say yes. >> i can. that is so -- every time that pence opened his mouth, trump stomped on him. pence said something like he makes decisions with his heart, and he kept emphasizing trump is a good man, a good man, makes decisions with his heart, and trump cut in and said my heart and my head. remember my heart and my head. even at that point when it

seemed like they kind of had a game plan going, trump still didn't let him go on. >> and "60 minutes" is big, a big question they should have seen coming about how mike pence voting on the iraq war. >> we went to war, we went to iraq. >> we ent to iraq that was handled so badly. that was a war we should not have been in. >> your running mate voted for it. >> i don't care. >> what do you mean you don't care? >> it is a long time ago and he voted that way and they were mislead. >> but you harped on this. the war in iraq from the beginning. >> you used that vote of hillary's that was the same as governor pence's as -- as an example of her bad judgment.

>> i'm one of the few that were right. >> he is entitled to make a mace take once in awhile, but she is not. >> another great moment that he never got to discussion. >> yeah, he has beaten hillary clinton like a trump on this issue. he used it effectively in the republican primary, and i think he shattered the orthodox. we discover there is a republican elector rate that is very much opposed to the interventionalism that we have seen. i don't think we will be reiterating the iraq war, but it could have been avoidable. >> and joking that his vote on the iraq war doesn't matter,

but -- >> i don't think he was joking. i thought he was saying his other qualities overwhelm this one lapse of judgment, and with hillary clinton, it doesn't fit in his narrative. >> we'll take a quick break and be back with more.

>> you're supporting the transpacific partnership that mr. trump says would rape this country. now, are you going to be able to go out in support of his

protectionist positions? >> well, i support free trade, and so does donald trump. >> i do. oh, no, i'm not an isolationist. a lot of people think i want to make good deals -- i want to make good deals for our country. we have deals like nafta, one of the worst things that ever happened to this country in terms of trade, in terms of economics. >> so kathryn, if you think donald trump wants to undo the trade deals because he has said he wants to undo the trade deals, he just told you tonight, these are stupid people that think that. >> well, i thought he was saying that it was stupid people who think that he's an isolationist or something. >> she said to him, you want to undo these agreements. and he said these are stupid people, these are stupid people that think that.

>> so the anti-seedent is undoing the disagreements. >> yeah. >> i would say trump changes his positions day to day, but it's more like minute to minute. which is why i think of him as a ror shack test more than anything else. in this particular instance, pence has been on record, he's tweeted about it, he's given speeches about it, as being pro-trade, pro tpp, pro nafta, various other existing policies that trump has condemned as stupid -- i can't quite keep up. and i don't know how they're going to reconcile these two things. >> prior to the unveiling of mike pence, can a vp selection help donald trump? we now have a couple of days of evidence about how this is

going. has mike pence helped donald trump? do you see how mike pence can help donald trump? >> vice presidential candidates can matter, but voters choose the top of the ticket. they don't vote for a team, and they certainly don't make a vote on the basis of who the vp candidate is. when he picked mike pence, he made a strategic calculation that the campaign needs a washington insider, we need to unify the party, mollify all the unsettlement in the congressional caucuses in washington, d.c. that he's run against from the first hour of his campaign. he made a deliberate decision to say i'm not going to pick the two people that were on my list that were the most effective communicators. you may disagree with chris christie and newt gingrich, but both of them were going to be more than a handful for the vice presidential nominee in the debates and they were sure to

give pretty good speeches at the con veppinvention convention. and they were going to be able to frame an attack on hillary clinton and the status quo and to be forceful advocates as communicators for the change message that donald trump is going to have to drive to be successful here. so over the course of the campaign, the hurdle that donald trump has to clear is one of plausibility. he is a plausible commander in chief? and beginning with the pick of a vice presidential candidate, through the nominating speech and the three debates in the fall, there are basically five tests that establish or not establish that fact in the eyes of american voters. thus far, has the mike pence pick -- has the mike pence pick invigorated the campaign, has it closed the gap? are average americans excited

about the pence pick? no. >> i think the christian conservatives will mike it. >> christian conservatives are motivated to come out and vote for donald trump on the basis of hillary clinton being on the ballot. mike pence is not going to drive turn-out for any faction of the republican base. hillary clinton does that. >> mike pence helping at all? >> i think -- i actually think on the conservative christian right, he could make a difference, given that he has a lot of credibility in terms of trying to take down planned parenthood, which is an issue that has been a liability for donald trump since he has actually praised planned parenthood. and beyond that, you know, he seems safe. he seems more grounded. >> we'll leave this there. thank you both. msnbc's coverage continues after a break.

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my mmade a simple trip toonic the grocery storesis anything but simple. so i had an important conversation with my dermatologist about humira. he explained that humira works inside my body to target and help block a specific source

of inflammation that contributes to my symptoms. in clinical trials, most adults taking humira were clear or almost clear, and many saw 75% and even 90% clearance in just 4 months. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. ask about humira, the #1 prescribed biologic by dermatologists. clearer skin is possible. i found her wandering miles from home. when the phone rang at 5am, i knew it was about mom. i see how hard it's been on her at work and i want to help.

for the 5 million americans living with alzheimer's, and millions more who feel its effects. let's walk together to make an even bigger impact and end alzheimer's for good. find your walk near you at alz.org/walk. >> welcome back. we have been in breaking news coverage for most of this day because of the news that greeted us this morning from baton rouge, louisiana, the deaths of three police officers there. we had a briefing from politicians, statewide politicians, law enforcement at the state and local level. here is how they put the order of events. >> -- shooter scenario in bon