now, starting on monday, starting on monday in philadelphia, we will offer a very different vision. it's about building bridges, not walls, between people. it's about making the economy work for everyone, not just those at the top. it's about embracing our diversity that does make our country great. i have to tell you, in orlando today, in listening to people who had been there that night, meeting a mother whose son died, meeting others who barely escaped after hiding from the

killer, sitting around a table with leaders of the lgbt community, leader of the s.w.a.t. team, a county commissioner and a muslim imam who has been embracing the lgbt communi community, i was so proud, i was so proud. well, but i'm proud of everybody in this country who gets up every day and makes a contribution and does your part. and what the folks in orlando said to me was so touching. they said we have to stand against hatred no matter who it's against. racial hatred, religious hatred,

homophobia, xenophobia, all of these hates that infect the soul and we have to stand against violence everywhere, and that includes standing up for common sense gun safety measures. now, i want to say something else. i really do. because this is serious to me. i love this country. i am so grateful for all the opportunities and blessings i've had and i am so humbled by the

prospect of being nominated next week in philadelphia, but here's what i want you to hear. i will do everything i can to make life better for hard-working americans. i will do everything i can to bring people together. i will do everything i can to keep us safe and i know a little bit about that. now, you can't put this, you know, you can't really put this into laws what i'm about to say, but we need more love and kindness in this country. we need more respect between and among our fellow americans. we need to be listening more to each other.

the last thing we need are leaders who try to divide us even more than we are. we should be working to reach out to those who are different from us. our differences which make up our diversity makes the united states the strongest, best positioned country in the world for the 21st century. i am proud to be an american and

i want to be sure that our children and our grandchildren have the same pride and the same opportunity to have the access to the american dream that so many of us have had so that they, too, can enjoy the fruits of freedom and liberty, justice and equality and opportunity. now, look, i understand that there is a constituency for the fear and the anger that we saw last week. i know there are people who are feeling insecure and anxious about their lives, about their futures. they worry that maybe they're not going to have as high a

standard of living as their parents or grandparents or as they themselves hoped. i know that there's a lot of angst about all the changes that are happening in the world. technology, globalization. i understand all that. and i respect those who have legitimate concerns and questions. but i've never known america to quit on ourselves. i've never known us to give up in the face of tough challenges. i've never known us to basically retreat into the kind of isolationism that was being advertised at their convention. that is not who we are. those are not the values that made this a great country. and don't ever forget, we are a great country already.

now, can we do better? of course we can. can we be fairer, can we provide more ladders of opportunity, yes, we can. and that's exactly what i intend to do if i'm given the great privilege of being your president. i will work every single day to make your dreams come true, to make you believe that america's future can be even better than our past. we are a forward-looking nation, aren't we. and i know that if we set our goals and we work to achieve them, we will.

it has always been thus. this country has always delivered for the american people. now, we've had some challenging times. we've taken some detours. it took a long time for some people to be given the same rights as everybody else. we know that. but there is no place on earth that historically has continued to move forward towards that more perfect union. the last thing we need is somebody running for president who talks trash about america. so i hope you know that this campaign is really going to take a lot of work.

i hope you will join us. i hope you will take your phones out and text join, j-o-i-n, 47246 or go to my website, hillary clinton.com to get involved. i want to tell you this, especially the young and young at heart. we are hiring organizers right here in florida. if you would like to apply, go to that website. we want the very most energetic, enthusiastic people because our success in the i-4 corridor is essential to our winning. i'm excited about this campaign

because i believe that when it's all said and done, all of the scary speeches with all the side effects are over, people have stopped yelling at us at the top of their lungs like they did all week, that we will choose to be stronger together. that's what i'm counting on. that's what i in my heart believe is the right course for our country. it is the only course, the only course that leads us with

confidence and optimism into the future, and i know that we are up to the task. i know we are. and particularly to all the young people who are here today, every election is always about the future. this election is truly about your future. so today in orlando, when i asked everybody around the table what they wanted, what they needed, they basically said we

need people to understand what we've gone through, to be there for us for the long term, to help us help all those who were affected and all the families, and we need to stand up against hate and divisiveness. and the best way i can sum up what i hope this election will lead to, the conclusion we will reach together in november, and the work we will do for the next four years, is, it really is

great to be among so many optimistic people, but here's what -- here is what i want you to remember. my last thought for you today. just remember, love trumps hate. ♪ >> hillary clinton speaking at a rally in tampa, florida, wrapping up here 6:13 p.m. east coast time. that was a retooled version of her stump speech that we just heard. there were new lines and there was explicit response to the republican national convention, of course, this week and donald trump's signature speech accepting the nomination last night. hillary clinton there basically saying that she rejects the

quote, isolationism on display in the foreign policy offered by donald trump. also on a day when again, the world's eyes have landed on another place where there has been a multiple fatality gun attack, not all facts known yet but she made a point of saying broadly, she supports quote, common sense gun reform. all of that on the policy side stacks up as hillary is greeting several people, flanked by secret service there, stacks up politically in a moment where we can report here on msnbc that hillary clinton is expected to release the announcement naming her running mate at some point tonight. in fact, we have a lot more on that. kristen welker traveling with the hillary clinton campaign on a day that is major by any estimation if we get the running mate pick tonight. kristen, what can you tell us? >> reporter: well, we are expecting that announcement to come in the form of a text message to secretary clinton

supporters and again, we anticipate that is going to happen at some point tonight. so the big question is, who is that person going to be. well, i have been talking to my sources throughout the day, throughout the evening, and i can tell you that all signs right now are pointing to virginia senator tim kaine. a lot of folks saying he checks all of the boxes. he was the former governor of virginia, he also has foreign policy experience, something secretary clinton thinks is very important, and the two get along. they work well together. in addition to all of that, he speaks spanish. that could help in a key swing state like florida. obviously, he will help deliver his swing state of virginia. but of course, it's not official until we get the word from secretary clinton so we are also watching tom vilsack closely, the agriculture secretary, who goes back decades with the clintons as well as new jersey senator cory booker. in all likelihood, we are really looking at the top two picks. secretary clinton has been very clear that what is most

important to her is that her vp pick is ready to serve, ready to be president on day one. again, that underscores why so many people are thinking that tim kaine could in fact be her pick. now, we expect her to appear at a joint rally in miami tomorrow after she announces that pick tonight. ari? >> kristen, you watch hillary clinton right now, you get the feeling that she and some of her aides feel pretty positive politically after this republican convention. i spoke to one democratic source involved in planning the philadelphia convention who said you know, we could just rerun the four days of their convention and that would help us a lot, too. we hear a lot about convention bounces. what's your sense of the mood of clinton and her allies who of course are always going to say things are going well, but after the four days we saw that i think it's fair to say were not always flawless in cleveland. >> reporter: i think you got it exactly right, ari. i was in communication with them throughout the week and i think

it's fair to say that the headline cycle they thought benefited secretary clinton. i think you heard her rebut a lot of what we heard this week, quite frankly, and a lot of what was in donald trump's speech. a little bit of a preview of what we will hear next week. not necessarily from secretary clinton but from her surrogates. but she laid out what we will hear from her, which is this stronger together theme. i think you are going to hear her build on that when she takes the podium at next week's democratic convention and i think she's going to lay out her vision as she says, her big critique of donald trump's speech is that she didn't feel as though there were enough policy positions laid out. so the challenge from her perspective is to do that next week in philadelphia. so i think that they are hoping this vp pick tonight and then tomorrow will help give her some momentum heading into that all-important week. >> kristen, hang with us. i will go ahead and add to the conversation ron clay from the obama white house and chief of staff to two vice presidents, also campaign adviser on

debates. really, the right guy to have as we look at the general election officially beginning as well as david rothkopf from "foreign policy" magazine and american political analyst in his own right. ron, when you hear the rumors, when you hear the speculation which is all that it is at this juncture that tonight's vp pick could be tim kaine, and because i say could, it could also be someone else, what goes through your mind as a student of that curious executive position known as the vice presidency? >> well, i think she's got three great options with tim kaine, tom vilsack, cory booker. hillary clinton is a very responsible leader and she is going to make this decision not based on politics but based on who could be president on day one if god forbid something happens. >> hey, hey, i know. we all know that. you don't need to tell me she's not going to do a bad thing and do a political pick. i'm looking for more. i'm asking you specifically on the type of picks we're hearing

about, what do you make of them? we can assume let's say she's trying to pick good people. >> well, i think all three of them are people who have demonstrated experience, leadership, the ability to bring people together. they are consistent with the theme you heard from her today. i think you can't imagine a sharper difference between two candidates, two campaigns, two visions of the country, than what we heard from donald trump last night in cleveland and the kind of stronger together, bring people together, let's see what's good about america, let's build on that, that you heard from her today in tampa. >> i will keep interrupting you. it's just part of my anchoring style. i will bring in david in a second. you talk about donald trump. it's not unusual for a challenger to want to buy low and say there's something wrong with america. he's running against the third term of the obama administration with hillary clinton, who served in it. that's not unusual. did it strike you as unusual how far he went including factually misstating certain statistics to really try to convince people that things are this bad, do you

think politically that is risky separate from the factual problems that it obviously also showed? >> well, yes, but more, it's not just that he said things are this bad. it's that he offered no real solutions to fix the problems he claims falsely wrongly, his description of america is wrong, but then on top of it, no real solutions to fix what he sees as wrong and just kind of an angry divisiveness that i don't think is where the american people are. i think as secretary clinton said in that speech we just heard, this is a choice between someone who says i alone can fix problems, and someone who says we're stronger together as a country. i think her style of leadership is what the american people want and her vision of the kind of country she can build is what's going to be appealing this fall. >> david, we are watching hillary clinton here still visiting with people after that tampa rally, as we expect her, as i mentioned earlier, to text out her pick tonight. yet it's against a backdrop of several weeks of really tough times here in the country as we

have been reeling from problems domestic and foreign. >> yeah. it's also interesting that she's about to make her vice presidential pick and it's been a little bit yoovershadowed by violence in europe. when trump was about to make his vice presidential pick it was also overshadowed by the attack in nice. i think that suggests that security is going to be an issue in this campaign in a big way and that's why a lot of people think she's turning towards tim kaine, who has been on the senate foreign relations committee, who has got counterterrorism committee experience there in his background. i think she is going to try to flip the narrative. for about 40 years, the american people have thought the republican party is the party of national security competence but i think in this campaign, you will see her, a former secretary of state and possibly a running mate with a lot of experience in this area, saying we've got the experience, we are the cool heads, and this is a neophyte

hothead who is dangerous as the alternative. >> kristen, go ahead. >> reporter: i just want to jump in, because based on my conversations with sources, one of the qualities that is pushing secretary clinton towards tim kaine is that exactly what you are talking about, the fact that he has foreign policy experience, he serves on the senate armed services committee and i am told that given that she's running against someone who is casting himself as the law and order candidate, she does think that that is going to be an important quality in the general election, and that is what is helping to tip the scales for tim kaine. >> when you look at that concept, david, you juxtapose that with donald trump, there's certain things he says that betray a kind of outsider's frustration with the way things work that can be politically compelling because americans are frustrated with the way washington doesn't work. then i think it happens most on foreign policy, there are things he says that seem to suggest, i want to say this fairly as a journalist, the most benign

reading is that he does not understand basic principles of foreign policy. for example, he doesn't seem to understand how nato works and that it's a long-standing agreement. that doesn't just switch on and off based on the head of state of a particular country. >> no. that's absolutely true. i think on issue after issue, you can say you're the outsider and that can sound appealing unless it means you don't know anything about what's going on. he did a "new york times" interview earlier this week and they asked him about cyber, and he fumbled around and said i'm a fan of the future. he didn't know what the answer was. he talked about nato and when he talked about nato, what he said was well, i don't know, we'll defend the countries that chip in and we won't defend the other ones. >> which is, let me ask you, is that how nato works? >> it's not how nato works. it's totally contrary to the treaty. it says i'm not going to follow international law. he says the same thing with regard to trade deals, i'm not going to follow international law. he says he's going to leave certain things to work

themselves out, that certain countries might use nuclear weapons. he might use nuclear weapons. he might use torture in the case of -- >> which several generals spoke out against. >> because it's against american principles and it's against international law. he seems to think that the power of his personality is sufficient in a lot of cases where actual substantive knowledge is critical. i think hillary clinton will go after that again and again and again. >> ron? >> if i could, it's not just that he's uninformed. it's that his ideas such as they are, are reckless and dangerous. what he said about nato isn't just a misunderstanding of nato. it's a signal to the russians, to putin, that we might not defend some of the newer members of nato. that risks war in europe. what he says, i think that certain countries don't have nuclear weapons should have nuclear weapons, that's just dangerous, that's just reckless. i think that is really i think fueling people's anxiety about

donald trump. it's another reason why i agree completely with david, secretary clinton is going to be the stronger candidate on national security and on keeping this country safe. >> it reminds me what you're saying, there's passages in "the art of the deal" where he talks about truthful hyperbole and the importance of exaggeration and how effective that can be to generate attention. that's certainly true, the media certainly falls for it and there are certain industries where that is par for the course. i think we expect a certain amount of exaggeration from a used car salesman and there's no other cost than buyer beware. he doesn't seem to understand that now, even if he's not president as the nominee of a major party when there's two people that for all intents and purposes are likely, one of them is likely to be president, when he talks this way, it's already having global consequences. >> it is having global consequences. and scarier still would be if he talked that way with the authority of the president of the united states behind him, with his finger on the button, in control of the situation room. and that to me is the big, one

of the big contrasts here which is donald trump's reckless rhetoric, his whacky ideas, as you say, they are bad enough right now. he's the nominee of a major political party. but put him in the oval office, you are giving the power of the presidency and that's just a very scary scenario. >> i think one thing you can tell about trump's campaign is if you look at who's with him and who's not, virtually no major republican foreign policy expert is with him and some, like general scowcroft, former national security adviser, hank paulson, former secretary of state, said they will vote for hillary clinton. meanwhile, who seems to be for him? vladimir putin. putin is supporting him. today there was a wikileaks leak of dnc files stolen that seemed to be stolen by the russians and are being released by the russians in order to prop up the trump campaign. they love him. why? because of statements like the

nato statements. >> it's striking, when you talk particularly about people who have been life-long republicans in the foreign policy establishment, on the other hand, you watch the convention, he did have endorsements from people from the world wrestling foundation. that's not to be underestimated. >> well, those are strong people. >> very muscular. >> and maybe that's how he's going to say he'll have a muscular foreign policy. >> muscular foreign policy. >> steroidal foreign policy. >> one of the favorite words of the neoconservative establishment. thank you all. we will have much more of all of that. we will keep an eye on hillary clinton still working the rope line there in tampa, florida. it is about 6:30. we expect her announcement of her running mate according to the campaign to come, i don't want to use the word imminently but tonight, which could be within the next hour or two. we will have you covered for that on msnbc as well as an update on developments in munich. all of that after we take a quick break. [burke] at farmers, we've seen almost everything, so we know how to cover almost anything. even a romantic rodent.

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i'm ari melber. we are updating you on the unfolding situation in munich. a shooting situation there has left nine dead, including possibly the gunman, several others injured. a manhunt is under way as at least two suspects, authorities believe, remain at large. you may have seen some of this dramatic footage. the shootings originally erupted inside a mcdonald's at the munich olympia shopping center. several witnesses captured some of that on their phones. one video showing a man with a gun outside the mcdonald's and shooting people in the street. disturbing footage, to be sure.

matt bradley has been tracking the story in our london newsroom. what's the latest? what are you hearing at this hour? >> reporter: a lot of what you already mentioned. we are hearing about nine dead, one of them might be the shooter himself. the police are thinking there could be one shooter or as many as three shooters. again, this is a very very difficult situation to contain. we really don't know exactly all the details. what we do know is that there's a sprawling manhunt that has basically slowed one of germany's largest cities to a crawl. now, we just heard from some of the presidential candidates and we have been covering this story all night so i want to mention another element to all of this. that's gun control. which is actually an issue that really dovetails a lot with what we have been talking about in the presidential race in america. as you just show, we heard from hillary clinton and the day before, donald trump. ari, you know probably better than most that these two candidates are going to be making an issue out of what's happening tonight in munich.

this manhunt will probably be going on until tomorrow morning. as we just heard, clinton in particular, she just addressed what she referred to as having common sense gun measures. that's one thing the republican camp might want to bring up as a response, are these repeated attacks in europe. we have seen the same iteration on these one-man attacks, the sort of lone wolf attacks that have been going on for the last several weeks and several months. now german police are engaged in this massive manhunt for these gunmen who are carrying what we keep hearing about in britain, excuse me, in the united states, and in europe, long rifles. in fact, germany has some of the strictest gun control laws, not just in europe, but actually in the world, and gun owners are required to register through multiple background checks for their criminal histories and their psychological histories, but despite all of this, there are still about 5.4 million legal firearms in germany. so that's about 30 guns for every 100 people. these are figures from 2013.

so topping that list is the state of bavaria of which munich is the capital. bavaria has the highest gun ownership rate in this very gun-loving, gun-toting european country. it's really one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world. it's the fourth of the entire world. still, about 200 people a year die from gunshot wounds in germany. so these are the kinds of topical events we could see figuring into this extremely antagonistic political conversation back home in the states. ari? >> matt bradley reporting from london, thank you. now we go to paris, where nbc's contributor chris dickey is here. unfortunately, our viewers have become accustomed to seeing you reporting on some of these very sad international stories. give us the european reaction to what is obviously an unfolding event where we don't exactly know everything about what moved this individual to take this many lives.

>> reporter: well, i'm afraid we don't know anything about what moved him to take so many lives, and we don't know whether he acted alone or whether he had accomplices. i think probably if i were to guess, he acted alone and witnesses thought they saw more than one shooter, just as in the dallas police shootings, they thought there was more than one. so in this instance, we basically have two theories operative -- or three. one is he was somehow connected to isis and to islamic terrorism. the second is he was just a lunatic like the people who shot up mcdonald's in other places in the united states over the years. and the third is, this is gaining some credibility that he was a right wing extremist who hated immigrants and was using this as a kind of moment of savage protest, if you will, that coincided with the anniversary of the slaughter conducted by anders bravick in

norway who killed 77 people in the name of anti-immigration. all of that is possible. i think we are all just waiting here in europe to find out really what has happened and who was responsible for this killing and whether indeed it's over, whether the ninth man as it were who has been found dead was in fact the shooter who committed suicide. >> chris, moving beyond some of what we don't know in this data point, to the actual larger data and not to minimize anything about these horrific attacks, yet people watching at home or people who watched donald trump's speech last night might be forgiven for thinking that global terrorism incidents are on the rise when in fact, we can put some of this on the screen, as compared to other years in the last several, they are slightly down right now in terms of global terror, yet there are incidents that have been so

widespread in their carnage and so graphic that of course, understandably they get a lot more attention. can you speak to that context, particularly where you are in france, which has been rocked by this and yet it is not as if isis, al qaeda, any of these groups are somehow actually at the peak of the total number of terror incidents right now. >> reporter: no. first of all, to put things in perspective, let's think about how few people there are who carry out these incidents. we're not talking about thousands of people. we're talking about dozens of people. so you take dozens of people operating in europe, killing sometimes scores of innocents on the promenade in nice, the people who were killed today, the people who were attacked with a hatchet in germany a few days ago, all of that is terrifying but it's being done by relatively small, very small

number of people. if you want to translate that into a war on islam or a war with islam, then you are talking about more than a billion people who are muslim. are they all our enemies, do we want to make them our enemies? no. we don't, if we have any common sense. here's the thing. the so-called islamic state wants to do precisely that. their playbook is to try and create a civil war between the muslims who live in europe and the other people who live in europe and they think they can do it by focused violence again and again in places where there's already a lot of social tension between muslim communities and the rest of the population. and that is exactly what they are doing. the people who then pick up that ball on the right wing side and say well, it's a war with islam, we have to get rid of islam, islam is a fascist doctrine, the way for instance they do in the

netherlands, the austrian candidate who may well become president in october, all of these people are playing the isis game. they are playing right into the playbook of isis that was written really more than ten years ago by the idealogical mastermind of al qaeda and isis who was all about creating a civil war in the countries in europe between muslims and non-muslims. we seem to be headed that way. in fact, the head of french intelligence, internal intelligence six weeks ago warned precisely that there would be right wing groups that would pick up on the terrorism conducted in november, conducted in brussels in march, the kinds of thing that subsequently happened in nice, and they would exploit that and their interest would be to create a civil war as well. so i think we are in for very perilous times as we have the

extreme right playing a game with the jihadists and a lot of innocents being killed in between. >> christopher dickey reporting from paris, nbc contributor and journalist, thank you as always. we appreciate it. what we will do is turn away from that serious news and look back at hillary clinton, who as i reported just finished that rally and who is set to announce her running mate any minute tonight. we have that story and we are also looking at where some of her potential picks may be. we have from moments ago confirmation that governor tim kaine of virginia is in newport, rhode island for a fund-raiser. we are tracking him, we are tracking governor vilsack of iowa. lot of political intrigue tonight as we will find out who hillary clinton wants to put on her ticket. rthritis, and you're talking to your doctor about your medication... this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira helping me go further.

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welcome back. you are watching msnbc. this video is of governor tim kaine of virginia showing up at a newport, rhode island fund-raiser. this is footage we just got into the newsroom. you see him waving. is he happy because he might be hillary's running mate? we cannot say. but we can tell you we have this kind of footage because he could be the running mate. we do not track the movements of every governor at every rhode island fund-raiser. that is brand new into the newsroom. it reflects a democratic party that is a little excited, little curious. everyone watching their phones because hillary clinton in today's modern era has said as we reported she is not going to

simply announce her pick. she is going to text her pick. that is not new in the sense that a lot of campaigns do it but it certainly reflects her desire to grow her text message base. we are going to bring in democratic strategist steve mcmahon and kasie hunt from philadelphia who is covering the upcoming dnc convention. steve, like you, i'm reminded of the miley cyrus lyric, if you mean it, i'll believe it. if you text it, i'll delete it. who doesn't remember that famous line. the idea there being that if it's really important, you will say it, you will meet up about it, you will call. you won't just text it. this flips that on its head and basically as you know as the campaign strategist, you have plenty of people who might support your candidate, doesn't mean you can reach them all and getting their e-mail or text or contact information is key to a modern campaign. walk us through what she's trying to do here and what you think of who her pick might be tonight. >> okay. first, what she's trying to do.

she's doing exactly as you suggest. she's trying to connect with as many of her supporters as possible so that she can begin a conversation with them and get them more engaged and involved in the campaign and hopefully i think over time, getting a lot of those people to contribute and to participate, engage their neighbors and run the field operation that was so effective for barack obama. one of the things that they found during that campaign was that the neighbor-to-neighbor contact when people went and asked two or three of their friends to come out and vote was actually more effective than the television commercials and the traditional campaign things you see like signs and other things. this is smart modern campaigning. it's exactly the kind of campaigning that donald trump's campaign doesn't seem to be doing. >> i think that's fair. donald trump's campaign came late to that. they are very good at what is called earned media, getting tv newsrooms and other folks to jump in on everything he says, but the social media part, he's

retweeted, sure, but kasie hunt joining us by phone, it's certainly the case that donald trump hasn't built this big an e-mail list or text network although they may be trying to catch up on that. what are you hearing about the pick itself from your reporting tonight? >> reporter: well, forgive me, we are on the plane about to head out to miami for this event that she has planned with whoever her nominee is going to be. right now, all signs point to senator tim kaine of virginia. he of course has kept carefully to that schedule that he's had all the way along today, fund-raisers in boston and rhode island. we are looking to see if he's about to head out on his way to florida. but at this point we don't know that yet for sure. i have been covering him in recent days and he definitely seems to have a spring in his step like he knows something that maybe we don't know and he's happy that he hasn't been passed over. he was vetted in 2008 by barack

obama and was passed over and that of course at the time was very disappointing to him. but he's the kind of person who checks all of these boxes that hillary clinton's campaign has been talking about all the way along. one of the critical ones in the final days of this has been national security experience. tim kaine can claim national security experience on the armed services committee in the senate and with all of these, we saw again today with what happened in munich with all of the terrorist attacks that have been happening around the globe, the incident here -- incidents here in the united states as well, the attack in orlando, really has the clinton campaign focused on making sure they don't leave any chinks in the armor on national security. there's concern about ohio and pennsylvania in particular, and blue collar, mainly white working class men who maybe wouldn't be willing or would feel nervous about voting for her if in fact the pick went another way. the clinton campaign has been

holding focus groups around who to pick for their vice president. that's definitely something that's come into it. the other person who is at the top of the list, tom vilsack, secretary of agriculture, former governor of iowa, who also has been keeping to his own schedule today. so we are just hopefully, we think any minute now, we could get that text to find out what's going on. >> thank you, kasie. stay with us unless you get booted for plane reasons. what she is speaking to is, you know, tim kaine's mood, his look, we don't have a body language expert booked. maybe that's an oversight on our part. but if he's looked happy for several days, good for him. yet for those who have studied him and you have been around him as a long-time democratic strategist, he's a pretty cool cucumber. he's a senator now, he's considered moderate not only in ideology, if you look at govtrack.com and some of the sites that pull the ideology together. those are rough models but he's over in the center right of the

democratic party, not the far left. but then there's also the fact that he's moderate by temperament. tell us about the man as you know him. >> well, you are exactly right. he's moderate by political affiliation, he's moderate by temperament. he's one of only 20 people to have served as mayor, governor and senator in the country today. he speaks spanish. he almost became a jesuit priest. he went to harvard law school. he has experience on the senate intelligence committee, the foreign relations committee. he's worked on counterterrorism issues. so he has all the things that you want in a safe, steady, reliable dependable kind of choice. >> yet as you say that, i will cut in to say you describe that and anyone listening who didn't know him after you just read that resume might think god, he sounds like a little much. he sounds like a class president type. yet when i followed him in the senate club and the school of governors and all these types of people you covered, on that scale, he's just pretty mellow. he's not a cocky type.

>> you know, sometimes -- trump supporters sometimes refer to him as a blue collar billionaire. tim kaine is the most even, humble, kind, thoughtful, considerate man. he was also by the way dnc chairman which gives him a political sense of some of these guys don't have. but i think he's the kind of candidate who enables hillary clinton to kind of win this where it's going to be decided, which is in the middle. donald trump by picking mike pence chose to try to solidify the right wing of his party. he ran a convention that was basically, you know, an agrievement kind of a convention where he essentially tried to stoke grievances that people may have and he's not exactly reaching the middle of the road swing voter that is going to decide the election in pennsylvania, ohio and everywhere else in this country.

hillary clinton has an opportunity with this pick of tim kaine if that's what she does or with tom vilsack to kind of reach across the middle and try to win this thing where it's going to be won. i will say this about tom vilsack who goes back a long long way with the clintons. they love him. he delivered iowa for her this year. but he's from a state with a republican governor which means if he were the vice presidential nominee, i'm sorry, i was thinking he was in the senate for a second there. i don't know where that came from. but he's from a state that has a republican governor. that's a swing state right now. both campaigns are going to target it and he would be somebody if she were to select him who probably would put iowa in the blue column instead of the purple column which would be good for her campaign. i wouldn't count him out at this point. >> those go to the political calculations that are always on the board, if you think about the different states. steve, stay with us. >> i was thinking about cory booker for a second. >> right. from new jersey. stay with us. kasie hunt, we will let you put your phone in airplane mode and

catch up with you when you land. thank you so much. when we come back, we have breaking news that hit the newsroom just this hour. it is in the trump u lawsuit with the judge trump has had his differences with. i will tell you why it might not be the news trump was looking for. ♪ take on any road with intuitive all-wheel drive. the nissan rogue, murano and pathfinder. now get 0% apr for 72 months, plus $500 bonus cash. ♪ but you may experience common discomforts. introducing trunatal from one a day. trunatal is a new line of products designed to address discomforts with nausea relief and regularity support. add trunatal from one a day for relief and support you can trust.

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soon, he'll take notes en espanol. get back to great with the right gear. from the place with the experts. office depot officemax. gear up for school. gear up for great. some breaking news on a friday here in the trump university lawsuit. judge curiel ruling today that that lawsuit can continue,

clearing a path for the suit by former customers of trump university who allege fraud and other allegations against donald trump. his lawyers had sought today to have it dismissed. that was rejected by the judge and is the latest in a suit that's gotten a lot of attention this campaign year. back with me, democratic strategist steve mcmahon and lynn sweet. this is a trump that keeps the suit alive, a suit that trump has drawn extra attention to. your thoughts? >> it not only keeps the suit alive because the motion to dismiss was denied but it also keeps the suit intact as a class action lawsuit. that was another bid that trump's lawyers made. if they were able to do that, it would have made it much tougher for individuals to go forward. you're always stronger going as a class. so this means that as the trump campaign maps out part of their

strategy is to get trump on his business dealings as this campaign goes forward. this suit plays into their strategy perfectly. if the suit had been dismissed, then it would have been -- would not have been as advantageous as it is now for hillary clinton. >> steve, do you think donald trump himself will speak to this or try to avoid speaking to it this time? >> well, he should try to avoid speaking to it but he doesn't seem to be able to control himself. he was just today out attacking ted cruz again, after claiming he had a united party and a great convention, he was carping on ted cruz. i wouldn't be surprised to see him carping on the judge tomorrow which wouldn't be a good political move but it would be typically trump. >> lynn, how about that, when we look at his style, because there's an old saying, advice is what you already know but wish you didn't. donald trump doesn't seem to take a ton of advice during this campaign. >> well, [ inaudible ] to have a

presidential candidate be involved in civil litigation based on his business. this is very very rare. and for him to even comment on this litigation while he is a presidential candidate is highly unusual. instead of just saying i will have nothing to do with it, we will let the case run its course. the other exposed flank that trump has is what facts may be dug up as this case now goes and you know, you are an attorney, as this case is pursued, there's a lot more opportunity for more information to surface about how trump university operated, got customers and what they really delivered for all the money people spent. >> briefly, the macro question isn't just the suit, it's whether this is a business that trump founded to give business advice that ultimately went out of business. >> the macro question here is exactly that. it's a character issue. does this person, is he qualified, does he deserve and

can you trust him, if you were president of the united states. if this is the way he treated the people who gave him money for a service or product, then it's not -- it doesn't become him very well as a presidential candidate. >> thank you both for joining us this hour. that wraps it up for me. "hardball with chris matthews" starts right now. hillary makes her pick. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews back in washington after covering the republican national convention in cleveland. we're here live right now awaiting the big announcement from the hillary clinton campaign of who will be her running mate. nbc reports that the news is expected to come at any moment. believe me, we are on this. lots of chatter secretary clinton will choose virginia senator tim kaine and selecting a moderate like