can you trust him, if you were president of the united states. if this is the way he treated the people who gave him money for a service or product, then it's not -- it doesn't become him very well as a presidential candidate. >> thank you both for joining us this hour. that wraps it up for me. "hardball with chris matthews" starts right now. hillary makes her pick. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews back in washington after covering the republican national convention in cleveland. we're here live right now awaiting the big announcement from the hillary clinton campaign of who will be her running mate. nbc reports that the news is expected to come at any moment. believe me, we are on this. lots of chatter secretary clinton will choose virginia senator tim kaine and selecting a moderate like herself would be

a sign of confidence on the part of secretary clinton. it would show her readiness to pick a vice presidential nominee with whom she is comfortable personally as well as politically, that she doesn't need to accommodate the pressure from the party's left. nbc's andrea mitchell is with the campaign in florida. ed rendell, a clinton supporter, close friend of the clintons is with us. andrea, what is the timing look like right now? >> we are expecting a text message to supporters. that's the way they want to announce this. then you would see her in miami tomorrow with her choice, all indicators are that it is tim kaine, the virginia senator, former governor, former mayor. he checks a lot of boxes. there has been push-back from some progressive more liberal democrats who don't like his past position on abortion. they don't like his position on bank regulation, concerned about his support for trade agreements. that said, he does have the one

qualification of any of the possible candidates other than military choices of having more foreign policy experience. that became -- first of all, that has always been her first criteria, somebody who is ready to step into the commander in chief role. he's on foreign affairs, foreign relations, i should say, and armed services committee so he's been very active in both afghanistan, the counterterrorism policy against isis in syria as well as iraq policy. that's a very important component. it became more important when mike pence was chosen and became even more important late this week when donald trump sounded off against nato. that really sealed the deal for this choice. >> because that shows that there was an opening, a vulnerability on the part of trump on foreign policy. andrea? i guess we are -- >> i apologize. >> let me go to chuck todd. my premise here is that she

picked tim kaine because she wanted him. if she picks him, that's because she wants him, personally she wants him across the hall from her if she's president. she expects to be president. she's picking a vice president, not just someone to run with. >> 100%. this is a governing pick. i think, look, this is not about a specific constituency group in the democratic party. if she were worried about a specific constituency group, perhaps she would have picked a latino or picked somebody more progressive in a bernie sanders, elizabeth warren, maybe decided on somebody else. look, this is a governing pick. this is somebody that is in many ways, who hillary clinton i think views as sharing a similar personality. they are both kind of midwest, have that sort of midwestern reserved nature to them, instinctively reserved nature. tim kaine not a native of virginia. moved to virginia. grew up in missouri. grew up in kansas city, i

believe. so there's that. and i think it's somebody who is seen as just a steady guy. doesn't make a lot of mistakes. you know he's not going to make a lot of unforced errors on the campaign trail but he's seen as a pretty loyal guy, when he's governing, and doesn't let his own -- i think, look, most presidents are concerned about somebody letting their own ambition get in the way of them being a partner. that's not tim kaine. >> you mean he doesn't see his way to the presidency? >> i'm not saying he doesn't see, let's back that up. he's ambitious. but not to the point where it would blind him from not being loyal to the person that picked him. >> you know, it's amazing, you and i follow this political thing, not just in terms of what's in the headlines but what's the back story. mitch mcconnell, republican leader, once said i've got an entire caucus of class presidents. when you come across the fact that tim kaine was class president in high school, you go bull's eye. talk about checking the boxes.

that's one more thing you can look for. you want to find a future president, look for a class president. i want to bring in anne guerin. hillary clinton, first woman president. plausibly potentially and perhaps she's the favorite at this point. she has to have a working relationship with a guy who's a guy. who knows what that means but it's the first time so it's an interesting kind of chemistry decision here. >> she's had lots of experience. >> with bill. >> she's had lots of experience, period. as the first woman to do all sorts of things. >> sure. but now she has this partner thing. >> yes. and i agree exactly with chuck's analysis of why he would make a good partner. she's not looking specifically for someone who can help her run, although they think tim kaine can do that. he can be an attack dog, he can do many of the things that she's gotten somewhat better at doing herself but still needs some help in doing, which is zeroing in on his weaknesses and being able to rally democrats and now

go beyond rallying democrats to get other people, any undecid s undecideds, any disaffected republicans to start to think differently about trump. they think that tim kaine has skills in that way. she's really looking beyond that period to someone who she thinks would be able to work in congress. he has a good bipartisan record and who could do -- fill in around her on foreign policy. >> governor rendell, it seems to me the vice presidency has emerged as a major office in this country. it began to really emerge under lbj because of its political importance in winning that election. under mondale, when you get an office two doors from the oval office and you're right there all the time, you talked to joe biden, he gets called into the office a lot. the president says let's talk about this thing. it's very much a partnership. >> no question. one of the reasons i love hillary clinton is i knew she would pick someone not by who could best help her win the

election, but by someone who would be ready to govern if something happened to her. tim kaine has domestic experience. he was a governor, a terrific governor. he was a great party chairman. he is really liked and respected by democrats all over the country regardless of where they are on the political spectrum, and most of all, he's got experience with terrorism and the military. an excellent choice, a guy who could be president literally on day one. he helps a little bit i think in virginia, maybe more than a little bit, but there are other people who might have been better as campaigners in helping hillary clinton win the election, but she takes it seriously. just like she takes the job of president seriously. >> she also -- what do you think about the lift she seems to be operating under? i watched her just perform, we all did a few moments ago. you can usually read people. she looks like she's happy. we all show our attitude. she looks like she's had a good week thanks to trump. >> well, i think the republican

convention was a series of unexpected disasters. the plagiarism on monday, ben carson saying hillary meets and talks to lucifer at times, ted cruz on wednesday, manafort dissing governor kasich in a state that no republican's ever won the presidency without carrying the popular republican governor, and i think it's a speech that i know a lot of analysts think it was a good speech. it was a good speech for the people in the room. it was a good speech for the base. it's going to get them excited and they're going to turn out. but i think for anybody who was undecided that was a very odd way to approach getting their votes. >> just a few moments ago, hillary clinton, former secretary of state, reacted to what happened in cleveland this week and had a rare word of praise. here she is, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. this proves that point. let's watch. >> did any of you watch that

convention in cleveland? well, you know, it was kind of perversely flattering. something has gone terribly wrong when one speaker says vote your conscience and gets booed. i mean, i never thought i would say these words, but ted cruz was right. >> well, that's a stretch. anyway, let me ask you about the parallel. i go to anne first, then governor rendell. bernie sanders is not ted cruz. bernie sanders stood up for a party he's not even a member of which is pretty good party loyalty. he's not actually a democrat. and he came out and said a week or so ago i'm with hillary. end of story, she's my candidate for president. ted cruz said the opposite.

he said -- he was absolutely standing against the history of donald trump. i'm betting this guy goes down bad. i'm going to stand on his grave. that's basically what he said this week. hillary isn't worried about bernie being with her. bernie's with her. whereas cruz is clearly against trump. >> yeah. the democrats are judging that the republicans have a worse probably problem of disaffected membership than they do. >> they have a ka chasm. >> bernie is with her, will say the right things about her, will campaign for her. there are die-hard bernie supporters who maintain now that not only is she the wrong choice but that bernie's making -- >> what are their options? on the floor next week in philly? >> their options on the floor -- >> will they put a candidate on the floor? will they nominate someone against tim kaine? >> i think they will complain

about tim kaine loudly, louder even than hillary, particularly because of his stance on banking and also trade. he's actually been a stronger proponent of tpp in recent months than she has since she disavowed it. he hasn't 100% said that he's super excited about it still but he maintains greater affection for it and then this week, he signed on to these two letters that a lot of deckic a democrat progressive activists see as thinly disguised lobbying on behalf of banks. he says that's not what it is at all but it will cause him some problems. >> is there anybody who sort of had the diagram saying you had somebody hillary's close to and feels comfortable with co-governing with, and also meets the terms of the left? i kept thinking you know, it might have been, i don't know who it would have been, but it was certainly not bernie. he's not going to be vice president. he doesn't have the soul of vice president. nor does elizabeth warren.

they don't think like vice presidents. go ahead. your thoughts on that? you know what i'm trying to do. is there anybody hillary would have liked that the left would have liked? >> i think sherrod brown would have been perfect except for the fact that if he got elected vice president, john kasich would appoint his successor and it would be a republican and that could have decided the balance of the senate. but i think sherrod brown was someone that hillary would have been comfortable with and certainly would have been more acceptable to the far left than tim kaine is going to be. i think tim kaine's vote on tpp is a problem. there's no question about it. no ifs, ands and buts about it. i give hillary high marks for political courage and picking someone she felt would be a good vice president. >> do you think it's because chuck schumer, the likely democratic leader of the senate coming up next year, is still worried about getting the 50 votes he needs, the 50 members he needs from 46, he's still not sure of getting that four-vote increase that he needs to keep

ohio? >> absolutely. if you have ever been on the receiving end of a call from chuck schumer, you know how difficult that can be. one of the hardest things in life. >> i have said many times, chuck schumer's an acquired taste. i have managed to acquire it. i'm not sure that's a permanent condition. anyway, thank you all. we will stick with this story. hillary clinton's pick for vp running mate could come any minute. look, we think it will be within this hour. stick with us. leave the tv on. still ahead this hour, in addition to that, donald trump took the opportunity to use his first appearance after becoming the republican candidate for president to go back and fight with ted cruz. he's still fighting this other front war with the guy who has just been as nasty as can be and they are both being nasty. why is he involved in another war with ted cruz? ♪

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welcome back to "hardball." now to the developing story we have been following out of germany. nine people are dead and 11 injured after a deadly shooting spree at a munich shopping center. police are operating on the premise of a terrorist attack as they search for up to three gunmen who are on the lose. they say one gunman may be among the dead. the shooting began at a mcdonald's before the suspects made their way into the mall. that scene was captured on a cell phone.

wem, special forces in germany have been called in as munich grinds to a standstill. police have told residents to stay indoors as they conduct the manhunt. joining me from our new york newsroom is msnbc's cal perry. also with us, msnbc terrorism analyst malcolm nance. i wish i didn't have to see you so often. this is another friday night here. cal, give us a sense of who were the shooters? who are the terrorists? >> we don't know at this point. there will be a press conference at the top of the hour by munich police. what we do know, i'm happy to say this, it doesn't bear any of the hallmarks of an isis attack. we know of one gunman who opened fire and you saw that very chilling video on a group of civilians outside a mcdonald's. he then moved to the mall where there was more shooting and then he seemed to vanish, whether or not he's one of the dead and that's something we are waiting to find out from munich police. whether or not he then slipped away, there was some concern he went into the subway which is then why this city went into

lockdown. that's still unclear. they are working on that part of the investigation right now. but you had 100 people go into that mall and you had the gunman go the other direction. we have also heard eyewitness reports saying that it's quite likely this was some kind of xenophobic attack, the gunman was ranting about foreigners. that would seem to be in keeping with this kind of attack. it was not a large scale terrorist attack that ended in the deaths of many, many civilians with kind of a hostage situation and explosives which is what you would expect from an isis attack. we are not willing at this point to link it with an islamic extremist group. >> if this is nativist, why shoot other ethnic germans? >> at one point, that's a great question, at one point he yelled f'ing turks, something about turks. we understand, look, there's a large turkish community that lives in germany, they have been there since the '60s and this is, you know, europe is dealing with an immigration crisis. so that's where they are getting those reports from. not clear who he targeted. there were some initial reports

that he maybe had targeted children at this mcdonald's. i will say this is the fifth anniversary of the horrible massacre in norway. some people are wondering if there's not a connection there. we have to wait for the police investigation. >> malcolm, thank you. everybody thinks back to munich. that was the steven spielberg movie about that, the 11 israeli athletes killed at the olympics in '72. munich still grabs us, malcolm. >> well, you are absolutely right. germany has had a long history of terrorism preceding even the black september attacks in 1973. they had their own internal forces, the red army faction. >> denney the red. >> absolutely.surgents who were operating inside their own nation. right now we have to be cautious. some indications are that it was perhaps had right wing leanings and other indications are that

it may have been islamist. at this point we just know it's an act of terrorism and this person shot children. we know at least one was a 15-year-old girl who was murdered. it behooves us to be cautious, for everybody to be cool. we will all find out about how this is going to play out i certainly hope from the police when they come in at the top of the next hour and let us know precisely who the gunmen are and who they may still be looking for. >> let's talk about patterns here. we don't know who it is. cal, first to you, looking at this from an american perspective now, the people who came and blew up the world trade center back on 9/11, they were from germany. they had pretty good jobs over there. they were technically skilled people. their beef was cultural, i guess. i'm not sure what else it was. and religious, i guess. but germany seems to be a place that has a lot of stuff cooking over there in terms of ethnic

strife. >> yeah. and it's a country in many ways like what we saw in belgium, where you have the small pockets of especially muslim communities that are disenfranchised, that are in impoverished. you have large communities in germany of immigrants where there's just not the same amount of opportunity. look at what happened in the uk with brexit. this has been coming for a long time. we have seen a shift to the right amongst european governments in the past few years. and certainly, this is a concern not just in germany but across the continent. i think what's interesting about this attack was that it was a hit and run attack. it was not something that -- >> suicide. >> right. it wasn't a suicide attack. 100 civilians go into the mall and the gunman goes the other way. i defer to malcolm on a lot of this but if this had been isis, i think we would still be reporting at an ongoing situation at a mall with hostages and explosives and claims of responsibility and all kinds of video. >> malcolm, it's not a barricade situation, therefore it's not a suicide situation. hit and run.

interesting. what's that tell you? >> well, it could have been a situation, this is what we were worried about very early on in the attack, that this was a run and gun, where the terrorist would come in, shoot up one location, jump down into the u-bahn metro system and go downtown and shoot up another location or split up in three different locations. as of right now we are not sure whether there was one gunman or three gunmen. the germans are looking for three. but we saw that circumstance in dallas where we thought one thing and found out in the end it was just one shooter. this is all very confusing and when they put their ring of steel which is their actual strategy they use in german counterterrorism around a particular perimeter, they don't let up until they absolutely know that there is no one else involved here. it will be very interesting to see whether it turns out to be right wing extremism or an inspired amateur islamic extremist. but the fact is, in germany, they have, you know, their

population right now is feeling the heat from legal, you know, the immigrant movement that's going on in europe and the immigration that's coming across the southern mediterranean, and that is having a political effect. whether this turns out to be a right wing or not. it could actually be backlash. >> looks like a world wide situation. thank you so much. up next, back to politics and donald trump, the nominee. in his first official event since accepting the nomination the other night, last night, he's back to trashing ted cruz and john kasich. sounding much more the primary guy, the primary candidate than the man actually who should be now taking on hillary clinton full-time. that's next. we are waiting for the vp nomination from hillary clinton. we'll be right back. welcome to opportunity's knocking, where self-proclaimed financial superstars pitch you investment opportunities. i've got a fantastic deal for you- gold! with the right pool of investors,

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welcome back to "hardball." still waiting for the big announcement, i mean big announcement from hillary clinton, who she's going to pick. she's apparently already done so and will amounnounce in the nex minutes. we are on this story. it's pure politics. meanwhile, it's been nearly 24 hours since donald j. trump accepted the republican presidential nomination in cleveland and laid his vision of america before us. here it is. >> the first task for our new administration will be to liberate our citizens from the crime and terrorism and

lawlessness that threatens our communities. >> so nobody again can ever say hillary yells. this guy yelled for an hour and a half last night. less than 12 hours after that 75-minute scripted speech by trump, it went off the rails. earlier this morning at a good-bye reception, he attacked his former rival, apparently future rival, ted cruz and began relitigating old grievances. here is trump being trump. >> i like ted. he's fine. again, i don't want his endorsement. if he gives it, i will not accept it. his father, i don't know his father, i met him once. i think he's a lovely guy. i think he's a lovely guy. all i did is point out the fact that on the cover of the national enquirer, there was a picture of him and crazy lee harvey oswald having breakfast. >> at one point there was an audible gasp from the crowd when donald trump began to revisit allegations of attacks against heidi cruz, the wife of the other guy. let's watch.

>> i didn't start anything with the wife. when i saw somebody tweeted a picture of melania and a picture of heidi, who i think by the way is a very nice woman and a very beautiful woman, i have to tell you, i think heidi cruz is a great person, i think it's the best thing he's got going and his kids if you want to know the truth. >> if you want to know the truth. great phrase. after a tumultuous week in cleveland where republicans achieved a fragile detante, donald trump did little to soothe their nerves. hugh hewitt, aren't you in heaven? this never quits. and perry bacon who is nonpolitical in his thinking, he's a political reporter with me. hugh, i have to go to you. this is to me, once again, the sinatra aspect of trump. lot of talent there, lots of brains, but this willingness at any street corner in any bar in any saloon, if you want to fight, he'll fight.

he wants to fight with ted cruz. >> no, no, no. no, no, no. >> i'm sure i missed it. go ahead. what's the conservative thing here i don't get? >> this is what this is. after every major sporting event in america you have the post-game press conference. when lebron and kyrie come out after shattering the warriors dreams, they don't talk about next season. they talk about how they won. the republicans have this crazy convention. katy tur said a little rocky. it was like the baja 500 of conventions. so donald trump goes out to hopkins airport with mike pence and goes back over and lays out his narrative and talks about, also introduces mike pence again and by the way, mike pence helps him whereas tim kaine is just an anchor around hillary's neck. you saw last night donald trump made a play for bernie voters. if tim kaine is that press release you get in a few minutes, bernie voters will come to donald trump or maybe to jill stein. they ain't going to like this. anyway, all donald trump did today was the post game press

conference. >> and he had to put the sheve in on ted cruz's father maybe having something to do with killing kennedy. he had to throw that in. >> he had to talk about ted cruz hitting him hard. it's like lebron talking about game seven. it's a replay, going back over the highlights reel and going forward. >> let me just suggest something. i think he was piling on. not only did he say there was a picture in the national enquirer which is dubious to begin with. nobody ever credits that when they write a news article. he said they had breakfast together. now, the picture was of two people walking, one was lee harvey oswald. another could have been an hispanic guy. no reason to believe it was ted cruz's father. there is no such picture. what is trump up to? he's putting icing on the cake here. they are having breakfast together. >> that clip was amazing to watch mike pence kind of looking like what is going on. finally trump praises heidi cruz

and mike pence leads the applause. he's relieved something normal has been said finally. it goes to the point that we keep thinking trump gave a very traditional speech thursday in terms of tone. the message was different than mitt romney would have given. friday he's back to the normal kind of i don't like ted cruz. he was right, he definitely went into -- he's been commentating the campaign throughout. that's one thing trump does. he gives his analysis of what's going on like he's in a basketball game. yes, he did that because he's sort of annoyed ted cruz disrespected him. >> there's a new thing here. it's the santa claus masks always used to be looking at you, it's meant to look back at anybody. trump has this new feature. he says one thing which gets visceral support behind him, then he says something else on the other side to sort of balance out, like i really think heidi cruz is blueautiful, blah blah, blah, after he posts his

super-model wife. he covers everything over. he's super pro israeli now, super anti-neocon on wars. he works both sides of the street in the same moment. how is he going to get away with that? >> i think that's called winning elections. he mentioned the lgbt community. >> that was politically correct. what made him lead to the latest state of the art phraseology? >> it was setting up the biggest applause line of the night which is i will protect the supreme court which i have now imbedded in the opening music of every hour of my radio show because that really rallies the republican base. you are absolutely right, he is reaching out for new voters, lgbtq, talking -- >> you are so state of the art. you guys on the right. first of all, i got a great question for donald trump. what did you mean by q? >> he meant queer. >> is that what he meant? not questioning? >> he's a manhattan guy. he knows what lgbtq means.

come on. >> i'm not sure it's politically correct what you just said. it might well be. >> that's what it means. >> he propounds the argument. we should never be politically correct and there he is correcting his text last night and adding q. i will ask perry who is really objective about this. what did you make of this? chuck was sitting next to me, he goes wait a minute, that's different than the first draft. somebody's checking stuff out here and cleaning it up. >> well, monday it didn't happen, obviously. it seems on thursday, he is trying to broaden his coalition. that's one thing you can tell he's doing. he wants to give the law and order message but -- >> he doesn't want to be ant anti-gay. >> he's from new york, the republican party is different now, peter thiel gave the speech. i think he wants to broaden the coalition and runs more as less of the social values republican. i think that is smart of him to do that. . let me ask now that i have you in fighting mode, what did you make of paul manafort, the campaign manager in effect right now saying when i asked him why

should a woman vote for trump after trump has been so tough on hillary, the first woman candidate for president, who really has a chance to be president. and he said because they have to worry about their husbands' ability to pay the family bills. did you think that was a little bit archaic since statistics given at the republican convention, something like half the households in this country, maybe more, are headed by women, breadwinners, in fact, sole breadwinners. to say that a woman should worry about her husband's ability to pay the bills. did you think that was a little odd? >> yeah. i would rather hear ivanka talk about those issues. i would rather have her answer all your questions on those issues. >> she's a democrat. she's a democrat. >> she was very skilled. paul manafort may not be the best person to answer those questions. >> how do you think the cam pab loo campaign looks coming out of cleveland? hillary is like me, a lot of people, you, even, you are rather staid but you can tell a person's mood by looking at them. you can tell how people feel.

hillary looks like she's walking on air, she's so happy that this week turned out so bad. your thoughts? >> rome was always happy until the vandals arrived. rome thought they were in charge until the germans came over. i'm telling you if they name tim kaine, the happiest person in america is donald trump. the second happiest is mike pence. that's a milly vanilli ticket. we will be running on that speech all year long. >> is that like -- is this what you guys do, if given a minute on television, throw out the list? the server. you really think -- >> let me address the tim kaine thing. if hillary thinks she's leading appe and likely to win anyway, don't want to take a risky pick, warren might be risky and turn people off. >> how about you pick the person you want to pick? >> she might like tim kaine better. that's my guess. [ speaking simultaneously ]

>> it was a nasty comment by mccarthy. i think tim kaine can be very comfortable as vice president. i think elizabeth warren is a maverick. she's a very dramatic champion of the anti-wall street mentality right now. very much sort of almost an insider occupier. all the way. progressive with something to say. she doesn't want to sit in the vice president's office. >> you made the comparison earlier when you talked about biden and obama have a very strong relationship. they are involved in meetings together, they are idealogically aligned. hillary and tim kaine have the same left of center politics. you can imagine her asking advice and him giving her things she wants to know versus warren, whatever you think about her, is more left and just a different ideology. that would be kind of a ticket that has a lot of tension in it as opposed to tim kaine is like barack obama, like hillary clinton. >> i got a brilliant political guy here. governor rendell, you are still here.

let me ask you about that convention this week. all's well that ends well is the phrase i used last night. it was a resounding, rousing close. i thought the speech was too long by trump but i thought the last three or four minutes, it had all the red meat in it and was like that audience was on its feet, they were thrilled. the one thing they love is hating. they really love to hate. they were hating the opposition. he managed to throw all the stuff out there, including the kitchen sink and it finally worked. ivan k ivanka was great. jon voight was great. it was an otherwise rocky week. who won last week? >> i think hillary clinton won by doing nothing. look, paul manafort attacking john kasich on monday, that may have been the most significant thing of the entire week. that's disastrous. it was insanity. campaign malpractice, you name it. the popular republican governor of ohio and we are attacking him when we need to carry ohio, no republican has become president without it. that was number would be.

melania's unfortunate, she was ill-served by her campaign staff, that was disastrous. to plagiarize anybody's words would have been bad but to plagiarize an obama's words, good lord. good lord. >> well said. >> tuesday night, we had ben carson linking hillary to lucifer. now, i have heard some bad things about hillary clinton but i have never known that she caucuses with lucifer. wednesday, i have never seen a speech like ted cruz at a convention. i have never seen a speaker get up and absolutely d eshgdiss th nominee. who is running that campaign? >> they used to call for security when somebody protested. get him out of here! >> ronald reagan would have forcibly taken him out. >> great thoughts. let's go to kristen welkee at the scene of the action in the next few minutes. what's the word? is there going to be an e-mail

the next few minutes? >> reporter: well, we think that we will get some type of text from secretary clinton or that her supporters will in the near future, possibly within the next half hour to hour, letting them know who her vp pick is and of course, the big question is who is that going to be. i think you all have been talking about who it's probably going to be, all signs seem to point to tim kaine. you guys were just talking about the rnc. i can tell you the strategy behind this rollout has been very controlled. we have been trying to break this story all day, as you can imagine, calling our sources. we have all been on the phone. they are keeping this very close to the vest. that's always been their intention, but to some extent it allows them to create a real counterpoint to donald trump because of course his rollout of his vp was botched, i think even his campaign would acknowledge that. this sort of starts what i think the clinton campaign is hoping will be some new momentum for secretary clinton but certainly to create the counterprogramming to what we saw this week at the

rnc. a lot of signs pointing to tim kaine, senator, former governor from virginia and of course has foreign policy experience and speaks fluent spanish. he and secretary clinton get along quite well. >> when you're sitting at the airport waiting for the plane to take off and there's a delay and you always go up to the counter and say you know when it is going to take off. they always say i have no word on that but we're scheduled to still take off, we haven't canceled the flight yet. have they been pushing, is this slipping? it was supposed to be before 8:00, the word we got. now it sounds like it will be after 8:00. >> reporter: well, i'm not sure it's going to be after 8:00 but you are absolutely right, the timing seems to be getting pushed back throughout the day. i think that's just kind of making sure that they dot their is and cross their ts. we are still expected to learn who her vp pick is in the very near future. of course, there are always a lot of moving parts with one of these announcements because you have to let the winners and the losers know. >> can cory booker still win this thing by 8:00?

>> reporter: okay. based on my conversations i'm going to go out on a limb and say no. that's the guidance i would get for my reporting. i think secretary clinton really likes cory booker, thinks he's a very strong force on the campaign trail but i think there's also broad agreement when you match him up against some of the other candidates he doesn't have quite that large resume that goes back years and years and years. that resume of governing which she has indicated is so important. >> he will. >> that's right. that's what folks are saying. he will eventually. he just doesn't right now. >> i hope it happens before 8:00. stay with us. joining me right now is democratic strategist steve mcmahon. steve, what do you think is the smart pick for hillary clinton now that we don't know for sure if it is tim kaine? what's the smart pick? >> i think tim kaine is the smartest pick because he's somebody that checks all the boxes if you will. three out of the four senators, elizabeth warren, cory booker and sherrod brown are from

states with republican governors so that would be a republican would take their place in the senate. so i think that's why vilsack and tim kaine surfaced and rose, and i think tim kaine just does everything. he's one of only 20 people in the country who served as both mayor, senator and governor. he is fluent in spanish. he's a harvard law graduate. he's got foreign policy experience. he's been on the senate foreign relations committee. he served on intelligence and counterintelligence and counterterrorism. so he's a steady solid dependable choice at a time when that looks like it's more important than ever. >> you think the language ability, few americans are fluent in anything but english. this is not a great country for learning other languages, even european languages and spanish which is right on our border. it seems to me they are going down to miami tomorrow, she's going to make announcement. it would be nice to have a guy

along who spoke spanish fluently. that would be impressive in miami. >> it would, and i think that's what you are going to see tomorrow. tim kaine accepting the nomination and articulating his thanks and gratitude in spanish which would be a very nice touch. >> stephanie is head of emily's list. what do you think, i was thinking about this. it's always tricky to talk about gender as paul manafort proved a few hours ago. i know i shouldn't but i always go right up to that edge. first time we had a partnership in the making between male and female in the white house. this is the first one. so hillary clinton has to pick in this case, doesn't have to pick a guy but probably is going to, a guy, a male, and they have developed, they have to get the chemistry right. i think that's really important. that's why vilsack was a real contender in the last couple days and probably cory booker but not as close a connection. and this guy tim kaine, who looks like a guy you would want to have if you were the first

woman president or any first president, have down the hall a couple doors. because he assumes liseems like who would quietly come in the room, give you advice, buck you up on a bad day but also have some wisdom. >> that sounds like what every president needs, whether it's a woman or a man. some sound advice and buck you up once in awhile. it's probably what every president would prefer. don't n-knows if they always ge those. >> biden is like that, i hear. >> he probably is. you said this earlier, hillary clinton was always going to look for someone that she could work with who is going to be a partner in this. this is about the next four to eight years. >> she expects to win. she expects to win. >> well, she knows that the best thing she can do is plan to govern. that's what she needs to do. >> i don't think donald trump was thinking about the next four to eight years when he picked mike pence. he's thinking i got a little bit of chance to be president, maybe one in three, you figure the odds, this guy might help me not blow it.

>> with hillary, too, tim kaine is from a state she has to win. so i don't want to overstate that she's being magnanimous about this. she picks him in virginia over cory booker from virginia, elizabeth warren from massachusetts. >> that's a parallel. that's a common nature. indiana's a state that trump needs to win too. >> yes. exactly. tim kaine also, we should note, was on obama's short list. he is someone who is well regarded in the party and someone who seems like a solid person who would probably not -- first thing as a vp, do no harm. >> let's find out what incoming tim kaine, if he is the nominee for vice president, we are hearing a lot about that, perhaps in the next several minutes it will be confirmed. hugh, you know what's going on out there in the world of communication. is tim kaine too small a target for the right to go after? in other words, will he be no target to hit, therefore, probably no harm done to hillary? >> now look, he's the anti-bernie sanders. the moment they announce tim kaine, a bunch of people in the sanders camp fold up their

chairs, pick up their woodstock backpacks and leave for the stein campaign -- >> thank you. leading the charge for the left. somebody just cut you off. i have to go now. hold on, hugh. let me go to kristen welker with some news. >> reporter: we are just learning that the campaign including john podesta is reaching out to some of the candidates who did not make it as we speak, so those phone calls are under way. so i expect that we are going to get some real news here within the coming minutes. hopefully before the top of the hour. but again, just learning moments ago that john podesta is in fact reaching out to the vp candidates who didn't get it. so that would suggest that the person who did get it will also be alerted within the coming moments. so we continue to monitor the situation, working our sources but we are hoping to have an answer very soon and as you are talking about there, of course all signs pointing to tim kaine. >> let me go back to hugh. this is going to be like the old

miss america contest where they used to go over the third runner-up, the second runner-up, the first runner-up. then the camera spins to the one they didn't mention and they're the winner. this is quite a moment to get the call from the candidate for president that you are not the candidate for vice president. but you think tim kaine will be the target of the right in what way? >> because he's the anti-bernie sanders. >> why is that bad? >> because all the bernie sanders people who got all excited about going back to w d towoodstock with the napsacks will listen to donald trump's direct appeal to them and say come with me, i hear you in western pennsylvania, i hear you in southeastern michigan -- >> they are not for bernie up there. >> they are going to come and be with the change agent, not with the insiders. >> on this big night for hillary clinton and her running mate, tell me exactly what percentage of the general election popular vote jill stein will get. tell me. >> three. >> okay. that's a high but i think that's

about right. that's about right. let me go back to governor rendell. is it good to be on the short list that they put out? they used to put used to put o redino and hit all of the ethnic groups and put them on the final list of potential vps. is it good or bad to be tom vilsack if you're not picked? great guy. i know you like him. is it good to have yourself on the short list and not get picked? is that good for you? >> sure. it can't hurt, chris. i remember when i was d.a. and a young and up and coming d.a. and i had no intention of running for higher office but i wouldn't deny it because it was good publicity. in politics, any time you're considered for something that's a step up is good for pub list st tea. good vilsack, who knows what the future holds for him but he's

gained a profile among democrats if he's the runner up here. >> so you were never ambitious as a kid, you were never class president? >> i was vice president of the university of pennsylvania and got crushed running for president. got crushed. >> what were the ideological issues back then in the '60s? the right wing or left wing of the student movement? go ahead. >> as vice president, for kick backs and parking, they thought i whitewashed the investigation. >> a future prosecutor in the making. let's go. who have we got now? cornell belcher. good readings on the democratic party spectrum of left to center, left and some center and a few straggling conservatives. what will be the feedback of the backlash, if there is such a thing, to this election by hillary clinton of a fellow moderate rather than a

progressive? >> you know, i've got to think that ktim kaine was a party chair. there's probably not a lot of, you know, core democrats in the battleground states who don't have a relationship with him. i think he's a safer pick for the party than some people think. yeah, you've got some progressives who will grom bell but tim kaine is such a solid party guy, i don't think there's going to be much backlash within the democratic party over such a solid pick. >> what did you make of those numbers in they look pretty fluid. 78%, i remember two weeks ago, 78% of bernie people who supported him in the primaries are for hillary now. that's a very strong coming back reproach mind. that's really strong. almost four out of five already. >> i'm actually not surprised by it because what's the alternative? donald trump is begets

everything that bernie sanders was for. we came out with a battleground poll last week and it shows that 74% of african-americans think that donald trump is a racist. 54% strongly think so. >> that word? >> that word. we tested that word, "racist". >> have you ever tested anybody he is like that? because -- no, have you ever tested anybody on that word, that terrible -- >> no, because i was lucky enough not to be born around the time of george wallace. so, no. >> he probably would have hit the bell, rang the bell. >> if there's tim kaine, there's going to be some sustained criticism. >> what do you think it will look like as we report next week? do you expect a nominee -- will there put a name in nomination to challenge him on the roll call next week in philadelphia? >> no. the democratic party is very focused on unity, particularly

after watching melania and ted cruz last week. i don't think that will happen. hillary clinton is running a campaign that she should have run two decades ago, maybe another woman, do something that was more -- elections today are about turning out your base and it's not clear tim kaine is the right person necessarily to really inspire the base. that's where i think -- >> you're right. go ahead. >> i actually disagree. >> go ahead. >> to cornell's point, senator kaine is very well-respected among the base. those are the activists. they are going to volunteer every day. >> moderate women, not all democrats, republican women who live in the suburbs who may generally vote republican on economic issues tend to be mildly pro-choice. they don't go to protests. they just are pro-choice for their children, their young daughters. >> right. >> they are. and they don't like women being ordered around by men. >> that's right. >> you know them. >> yes. >> does tim kaine help with them? >> hillary clinton is going to get them.

like, hillary clinton is going to get them. and tim's a good partner this this. but hillary clinton is going to get that -- >> he's -- i just think -- he's a sensitive guy. he's not a big mouth big shot like -- >> no. he's really good. he's easy to work with. he's hardworking, very committed to the party and wants to do the right thing for the country. i think it makes a lot of sense. the other thing is as folks are getting calls right now that they are not going to be vice president, it's amazing that that is happening as we're talking, that we had a really good pool of candidates. you think about what happened last week with the republican vp choice and what a debacle that was and here we are with some really wonderful candidates. >> let's go fwook back to an is that i think is critical. hillary clinton is picking somebody she wants, with all of the pressures surrounding you. kristen welker, what do you have

down in tampa? >> chris, just a little bit of breaking news. i heard from a campaign source who said it's almost time. i think we're very close here. we're talking about chemistry and what tim kaine brings to the table. the two were at a campaign event in virginia last week and i can tell you that the campaign surrogates watching that event very closely to try to read how these two interacted together and i think the takeaway, based on my conversation with sources, is that tim kaine was very strong, he complimented her at the same time and didn't overshadow her. there was a sense that senator warren was the star on the stage. not the case with tim kaine. secretary clinton, a lot of people in her circle felt really -- had a strong showing on that day that she appeared for tim kaine. that was part of that process as well. to your point, chris, that i heard you make a short while ago, he's someone who is a straight talker and i think can give her the advice that she needs. that's the perspective of the campaign at least, chris.

>> who's nodding? steve mcmahon, your nodding was picked up by our senior producer. tell me, what do you agree about that? your thoughts, steve. >> this is a comfort choice for her and a good political choice. with tim kaine it becomes blue and it's important to the clinton campaign to take another state off the map. >> yes. and then you can start working on north carolina. >> yeah. right. as donald trump starts this race, he probably only starts with 170 electoral college votes and taking it off the table makes it difficult for him and narrows the playing field for him. >> is it still a matter of picking up your state? i remember going way back when they started to lose their own states. al gore was infamous, they lost tennessee. but nixon did not get maryland. how much goes into calculating state-by-state electoral votes?

>> it's not a guarantee but somebody like tim kaine as popular as he is, it's a very strong starting point. terry mcauliffe is the governor of virginia and pushing hard for tim kaine. tim kaine, as we've pointed out, checks every single box that hillary clinton thought was important. if she wants to run on this notion as a steady leader in an unsteady time, tim kaine checks that box probably as well or better than anybody else in our party right now. >> governor rendell, i love to get you in trouble. would it have been a smarter pick to go with sharrod brown? would that have been a tougher, smarter pick? >> no. i think for the reasons everyone said, tim kaine is a smarter pick. look, tim kaine is not going to, as you said, generate a lot of excitement in the base but, remember, hillary clinton has the best base turn arounder in the world, barack obama.

do so i don't think that has to be the vice president's role here. i think the president will be on fire. >> congratulations, stephanie shir rock, hillary clinton will be the nominee next week. how do you feel? >> i have to say, i've been in politics for a while now and i thought, oh, this is just going to be like a good thing. there is really, really deep emotional movement. i have it and it's happening among our movement. this is an incredible moment and we should be proud as a country. >> women my age especially, because they have been through all of this. it's going to be a magic moment. we're going to continue covering this. thanks, kristen welker, steve mcmahon, stephanie schriock,

i'll be with chuck todd on "meet the press" sunday morning. our coverage continues with "all in with chris hayes." he's won our contest. he gets to announce it. good night. all right. good evening from new york. i am chris hayes. at this very moment, according to some reporting by alex walt wald, calls are being made by hillary clinton to those who were possible vp contender nominees, the ones who did not get the job. once those calls are completed, we're expecting perhaps within second ds, minutes or within the hour to hear who the nominee for the democratic nominee in the year 2016 is going to be. kristen welker has been rufrg this. what's