you set things right. after all watching over your credit is one of the most important skills of all. go to experian.com to enroll in experian creditworks today. we are following major breaking news from philadelphia just a day before the official start of the democratic national convention. and the news this hour is that the dnc chairman debbie wasserman schultz will step down at the end of her party's convention, which is after thursday. i'm sure you've been watching the developments throughout the day, especially the last few days after an explosive report wikileaks leaking out some 20,000 e-mails from the hacker detailing some intimate conversations regarding members of the dnc, particularly an e-mail that discussed the

religion of senator bernie sanders as an opportunity to get voters in the south to go against him. with me now is marc murray, he's been following the latest developments on this. marc, here we are, bernie sanders people a block from us protesting, many of them already planned to be here. but this idea that there was an e-mail, an internal e-mail within the leadership of the dnc discussing how to take him down, stacking the deck some say, against him in this race, is all a part of this now and now we've got this. >> right. just a couple minutes ago, tamron, came out news debbie wasserman schultz is going to be stepping down. according to the statement she's going to gavel in the convention, she's going to gavel out and she'll be stepping down as soon as the convention ends. and some of the context, tamron, is that bernie sanders even before this wikileaks leak happened wanted her gone from the dnc, wanted top leadership from the dnc to go. >> and was vocal about it throughout the primary. >> and there was always a legitimate escape route too given that debbie wasserman schultz has a very competitive

primary challenge on august 30th in her home state of florida that she was going to have to focus on after this convention ends. but you could end up saying that the news coming out now is part of the clinton campaign as well as democrats want to reduce this where they don't want people to keep on talking about this on monday, tuesday, wednesday as being a distraction. rip off the band-aid now and go into what they think is the news about hillary clinton's party rather than this entire wikileaks leak. >> but is that possible at this point? it is not as if debbie wasserman schultz will evaporate into thin air the minute she comes in to gavel. that's a part of the story. bernie sanders speaking monday along with the first lady. it's as if -- it's almost similar to what the rnc attempted to make us all forget that there was a speech that was plagiarized and put before us as an authentic -- >> plagiarize or ted cruz's moment on that wednesday night. i will say though, tamron, there's one big difference. on "meet the press" this morning

bernie sanders was interviewed by chuck todd and he said debbie wasserman schultz needs to go. but this doesn't change my support for hillary clinton. i'm fully onboard with her. and i do think that is a big difference between ted cruz and where the democrats are right now. and so the democrats being able to rip off this debbie wasserman schultz band-aid they at least think allows them to be in a better place than republicans were last week. >> and i get the point that you've made. bernie sanders is a key player in how this is handled. the temperature of all of this. but we're going to be joined in a second by the former head of the naacp, a bernie sanders supporter. he is among those as bernie sanders has endorsed hillary clinton still unwilling to put his support behind hillary clinton. so this doesn't just evaporate, mark. >> it doesn't evaporate, but i will saberny sanders' speech tomorrow night is key and important to all this. you're going to have millions of americans tuning in and a very solid speech by him saying why he's backing hillary clinton and opposing donald trump could go a

long way with some of bernie sanders' supporters who aren't onboard yet. >> if you have for example his speech writers online, one, do you say we've got to really change the language to amp it up? everyone is looking for bernie sanders to have an eye roll, to have any slight bit up i'm not 100% behind her even though these e-mails show there may have been some dastardly things behind. >> it certainly amps up the pressure and anticipation of bernie sanders' speech, in a lot of ways if you're bernie sanders you want that to be the case. you want to have a very captive audience. if i'm the clinton campaign, i'm calling bernie sanders up saying i want to make sure you're not going to pull a ted cruz on us. >> the fact you have to ask that question is a concern itself. >> true. >> let me bring in ben. here we are. debbie wasserman schultz resigning after the convention. so she's still going to make sure all of as mark put it the trains get out on time and the organization stands in place. is that what you needed to see

as a bernie sanders supporter? >> absolutely. for me this is what i need to be able to endorse. this rips off the band-aid, it lets us move on, it lets our party begin to heal. and it's what we have to do when we only have 100 days left to beat trump. >> still does not remove the claim and you mention trump something that he's trying to exploit that the system was rigged against bernie sanders. when you read this e-mail and the length at which at least one official was willing to go in bringing up this question about whether bernie sanders was an atheist or not, that was the core of what got 20,000 people to show up at some of these rallies when you look at the new york numbers anyway that it was rigged, that it was never designed to have bernie sanders as the nominee on thursday. >> sure. i mean, as you said this was dastardly. but debbie's departure, again, lets us move on. the reality is we have a vice president, tim kaine, civil rights lawyer, speaks spanish,

former mayor of a black city -- where my family comes from historically in virginia. >> battled nra, which hillary clinton brought up yesterday. >> and the way you make use of somebody like that is you invest heavily in turning out the black and brown vote. that's the type of thing we should be talking about right now. trump is going to turn out a lot of unlikely white voters. we need to turn out every young voter of good conscience. >> are you endorsing hillary clinton? have you endorsed hillary clinton officially? >> now i'm happy to do it now that debbie has departed, i'd be happy to do it. >> so this is breaking and developing on this air right now you are endorsing as the former head of the naacp as a staunch bernie sanders supporter, as somebody i watched on tv three hours ago say you did not support hillary clinton, you do now? >> that was taped from friday night. >> okay, so between friday and now. >> debbie has stepped down. and we can begin to become one party. >> but i find that fascinating, ben, that your support of hillary clinton and tim kaine, you again being this civil rights leader hinged on debbie

wasserman schultz. >> it didn't hinge -- what it hinged on was a sign that we're ready to come together. >> but wasn't bernie sanders' endorsement a sign your sides were coming together? >> the last two weeks at the platform committee meeting, working to pull this together at the rules committee meeting, i've seen both sides really give. the reality is that there's a base of activists that we're all accountable to deeply hurt by what happened with wikileaks. as soon as that began to break and to unravel, we needed to see a direct response to that. the other side was really ready to keep moving towards us and uniting this party. that's what her departure does. >> so, mark, where do things stand now? it sounds as if supporters, former supporters like ben, very vocal supporters, are ready to move on. will this then move on? >> as ben was just mentioning -- >> as if you're not here.

>> as ben was just mentioning -- >> i'm not talking about myself in third person. >> as ben was managing sanders campaign got -- bernie sanders already endorsed right now going to give a big speech monday night. i think this is kind of classic pr-101 crisis communication. you have a problem and you actually eliminate it. and in a lot of ways too, and again, this was probably going to happen even before the wikileaks leak had occurred, bernie sanders had already demanded debbie wasserman schultz has a tough primary challenge in florida that she needs to concentrate on. the kind of question i think democrats kind of have is now you have debbie wasserman schultz stepping down, a lot of her top leadership, do the trains necessarily run on time, it's very important. she's had her job preparing this convention. she orchestrated the 2012 convention for democrats. and so those types of things whether it's the tell prompters and all the other things go on -- >> but people at home don't care about that. >> tamron, just to walk you through my own thinking. >> sure.

>> we had to deal with the $15 minimum wage. we had to deal with criminal justice reform. we had to make sure we got some place in the environment. we were doing all that and then had to deal with souper delegates, we did that yesterday. and wikileaks became a distraction. that's why the departure is so important. >> let's go to more reporting on what happened behind the scenes and how quickly the party moved to this point we're at now, casey. >> hi, tamron. well, this has been something of a tortured day behind the scenes for democrats as they tried to hammer out how exactly to orchestrate what we've now seen, this exit from debbie wasserman schultz. and there was of course conflicting reporting over the course of the day about whether debbie wasserman schultz would speak or not speak at the convention, whether she would gavel it open wlrks she would close it. it now appears though the compromise here is to allow her to have a public role at this convention, that she of course

has worked on for quite some time to plan. so she is going to be gaveling it in. she's going to have an opportunity to address delegates. but as we've noted, she is going to step down at the conclusion of the convention. and really while, yes, this was something that was going to eventually happen as the clinton campaign had already effectively taken over the dnc according to staffers in charge, there was a resistance to removing debbie wasserman schultz until after the election partly because of course bernie sanders had demanded it and people didn't want the perception that many people who are supportive of clinton didn't wan the perception that she was caving to bernie sanders' demands on this. but the reality was that these e-mails came out and it made it really untenable for her to continue to stay. and that's because basically what you saw in those e-mails is exactly what bernie sanders' supporters have been arguing all along, the system was rigged, the party had set up to help

hillary clinton from the beginning. i covered bernie sanders for months through the primary. this is what you heard over and over again from his supporters this idea that this was just lip service to bernie sanders, that there was no real effort to keep this impartial. and these e-mails unfortunately for debbie wasserman schultz spoke to that very fear and to that reality. and democrats were really left with no choice here. but i think what we've seen now, the way in which this is going to play out over the next week, we'll still see debbie wasserman schultz publicly, so that means they're going to risk having her be booed in the hall, potentially upsetting, creating moments on tv where she is a figure that clearly is not cot patable with the base of the party. a lot of people are going to be on the convention floor. that's how it's still going to go forward. i think you can see in the results of this decision some signs of the process that wents hammer this out.

when i was talking to sources this morning, tamron, everyone was just very locked down. there were a lot of people who were actually unaware that such a move was taking place. there've been back and forth negotiations from the sanders campaign to the clinton campaign and back to the dnc. and now we've seen results of that in attempt to clear the deck before this convention formerly kicks off tomorrow, tamron. >> casey, thank you. mark, i'm trying to pull up this tweet right now that donna brazbra brasile will take over. ben, what role does this play? the first i think is here you have donna brasile strong african-american female, look at the elections in the past 98% of black female voters turned out to support barack obama as much as white men may go for donald trump, this is a block -- >> this is a real nod to black

women and also a real nod to the sanders campaign. donna is the highest ranking official who stayed neutral. and did her best to help everybody. in this primary season. donna is incredible and she will do great work. and she will frankly accelerate the healing and unity, which is exactly what we need to do right now. >> do you feel healed and unified at this point? >> i feel like we are moving in a very good direction very quickly. donna is somebody who has mentored me probably since i was 20 years old. and she has deep loyalty throughout our party. again, and in both camps. and that's what we need right now because we need by the end of this week we need to be one camp. we need to be one campaign. donna can make that happen. >> and, mark, here you have donna brazile through the election along with endorsement of hillary clinton monday what is the headline? is it michelle obama's speech? is it, of course, senator sanders? >> i think it's bernie sanders. and all of this drama.

all of this chaos, all this kind of democrats in disarray seems to have built the moment for that. but i actually thing, tamron, we're talking about the breaking news on debbie wasserman schultz, i'd make the argument bigger breaking news happened with ben saying this is what we needed to actually move forward and people like ben who fought in the trenches for bernie sanders toughou this campaign season are saying this is the final thing that we actually need now is to go. they're probably having a little sigh of relief. in brooklyn despite the bad story they didn't have to deal with i would say that to me is the bigger story going forward. >> nina turner -- no, i'm kidding. that's the next call i'm waiting for right now because i have to tell you two of bernie sanders' most fierce supporters, you and nina turner, she was on i believe yesterday or this morning still holding out for some of the answers that she feels that she needed. >> we were at church this morning together with reverend jackson praying. and the reality is that we're beginning to see some of those

prayers answered. >> how much of this is a worry when you still see the polls, ben, and mark can recite them better than anyone that this race is still close. some of them show it's a five-point race with all the mistakes and mishaps with all of the criticism pointed at donald trump's speech whether it was dark or whether it was factually incorrect with the crime numbers, he's still very close to hillary clinton. >> the reality is and i know nina feels the same way, we have to do everything we can to defeat donald trump. this is terrifying. and the margin is too close. and donald trump will turn out a lot of folks who have not voted in a very long time who are off the radar of pollsters. we have to be doing the same thing. and that's what i like. whatever differences i've had with tim kaine in the past, the reality is he has some real strengths and he we got to play to them. >> what are differences with tim kaine in the past? >> that's in the past. >> okay. >> but the reality is right now we have an opportunity with a former civil rights lawyer, speak spanish, represented a, you know, deep south black city

as its mayor to really using to help turn out the black and brown vote. that's wa wha we need to focus on. we have 200 days to keep a neofascist out of the white house. >> who believes he can peel off some of bernie sanders supporters. he's been trying to capitalize or exploit on what he sees. is there anything to back that up? >> not a lot, tamron. you're right bernie -- donald trump has made a big play for bernie sanders voters. he did it at his convention speech, he's doing it on twitter, did it with "meet the press" with chuck todd. and also anticipation of bernie sanders speech, berni sanders gives a very big endorsement to hillary clinton tomorrow night, then all of a sudden that plays a little less. i don't blame, it's probably smart politics for donald trump to go after sanders supporters but could have a big letdown

monday night. >> as mark murray pointed out in the last 15 minutes we've been on the big headline, the former head of the naacp lucky enough to be our guest right now ben jealous officially for the first time on air supporting, putting his support behind hillary clinton as the party's nominee. thank you so much, mark. you can stick around. we'll be right back as we follow the major breaking news. right now the dnc vice chair donna brazile will serve as interim chair now that debbie wasserman schultz has announced her resignation after the convention wraps up. we'll be right back. we're not wrapping up here. how i stay active. and to keep up this pace, i need the right nutrition. so i drink boost®. boost® complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones, and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. in three delicious flavors. i'm not about to swim in the slow lane. stay strong. stay active with boost®.

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keeping the power lines clear,my job to protect public safety, while also protecting the environment. the natural world is a beautiful thing, the work that we do helps us protect it. public education is definitely a big part of our job, to teach our customers about the best type of trees to plant around the power lines. we want to keep the power on for our customers. we want to keep our community safe. this is our community, this is where we live. we need to make sure that we have a beautiful place for our children to live. together, we're building a better california. brad marshall apologized on facebook, has anyone apologized to you personally? and what is your response to this entire discussion? >> well, no, nobody has apologized to me. and as you've just mentioned this really does not come as a

shock to me or my supporters. there is no question but the dnc was on secretary clinton's side from day one. we all know that. and i think, as i have said a long time ago, that the time is now debbie wasserman schultz to step aside. >> of course that was senator sanders just a few hours ago on "meet the press." and we've now just got in a statement from president obama reacting to the news that debbie wasserman schultz will step down as chair of the dnc after the convention. in part the statement from the president, for the last eight years chairwoman debbie wasserman schultz has had my back. this afternoon i called her to let her know i am grateful, her leadership for the dnc has meant we had someone who brought democrats together, not just for my re-election campaign but for accomplishing the shared goals we've had for our country. her critical role in supporting our economic recovery, our fights for social and civil justice and providing health care for all, americans will be a hallmark of her tenure as party chair.

let me bring in now our guest, that's in part what the president wrote. we're joined now by congresswoman debbie dingle, a democrat from michigan who will speak later this week. let me get your reaction to the news this hour? >> debbie wasserman schultz is my friend and she's done an outstanding job as chair of the dnc. we need to go into this convention united. we need to praise debbie for what she did. she was a good chair. we need to look towards the future and being unified. >> was the leak unfortunate, or was it the e-mail? >> you know, we live in a day and age that anything i put in writing i think somebody could she. >> but it should have never been put in writing, should have never been said. >> i need to remind everybody be careful what you put in writing. we've got to move forward. i think both candidates ran good, strong, hard campaigns. we're here. we got to win in november. >> but for clarification, the

e-mail itself questioned the religion of bernie sanders? was that ever an acceptable conversation, whether it leaked out or not, for the dnc to have? >> i hate doing this to my friend, but no, it's not. we need to all pull together. whatever somebody's religion is should never, ever, ever be the subject of something. and we cannot divide people. that's one of the reasons why i'm worried about donald trump. he is not unifying us as a country. he is dividing us based on fear and anger. >> when donald trump tweets out that in a sense the system was rigged against bernie sanders, and he's tried to court some of those sanders supporters based on that anger or the feeling that senator sanders did not get a fair shake. are you worried that he could peel off some of those voters? >> i want people to think long and hard about who donald trump is. and the fact of the matter is he is trying to divide us as americans. you know, i lived in michigan, i live in city of deereborn, what

he is doing targeting a nationality or religion is playing to the worst in us. so i was somebody -- i was one of the people that said michigan was closer than anybody thought. i thought senator sanders did a good job in bringing out the issues. and i am not going to let donald trump divert anybody's attention about who he is and what he is and what he's trying to do in dividing us. >> when we look just a block or two from here, some thousand or so people are here protesting. and i think we've immediate a big deal about the large number, but logistically it is easier to get to philadelphia from a washington, d.c., from a new york by train, cleveland is a little more challenging for some of these supporters to have gotten to. that's not to excuse the numbers, but there's a heavier presence of protest here than the first, you know, pre-dawn than we saw in cleveland. >> you know, today was a gathering of people that felt very strongly about senator sanders and the issues he cared about. it doesn't mean the issues of

the people here we're not going to come together and not see us unified at the end of the week. i wouldn't say cleveland's that hard, i'm a midwest girl, you can get to any of these midwest cities. but i think the media would like to create more division than there is. i think senator sanders is going to give a strong speech tomorrow night. and i think everybody there knows what the principles are that donald trump stands for and will not vote for in november. >> with all due respect, congresswoman, the media did not hold ben jealous from supporting hillary clinton until this very hour. that has nothing to do with the media. i don't think that we've exploited a division, there has been a division -- >> there's been -- >> there is. >> i think the division is less now than there was, as you see ben came out. we were talking as he left here. we're all on the same team. and i think -- i don't want to get distracted by the static of today about what's really going to happen as we come together. his speech will be strong tomorrow night. >> let's talk about some of the female voters. i've asked mark murray stick around because we do have new polling that will come out

whether or not donald trump received a bump or not. but your focus heavily on female voters particularly if we're going by demographics some of the suburban women who are concerned about security who may feel that the idea crime is up even though the numbers show it is not nationally, resonates among the things they're concerned with. what's the message you want to deliver today to those female voters? >> what's the message that -- i'm not voting or supporting hillary clinton because she's a woman. i'm supporting her because i think she's the strongest candidate for this job. and i think she's got a plan that's going to create jobs. working men and women want to be able to find a job. i think she's going to fight for that. she's always been someone that's cared about families and women and children. when you talk about national security, donald trump and the way that he divides us in this country does not make us strong. he makes us susceptible. and think about us on a world stage and who are they going to trust, donald trump or hillary clinton? secretary clinton has a lot of

experience and has great relationships in a global world. >> congresswoman dingell, thank you so much for your time. we just got a new tweet in from donald trump and it reads, today proves what i've always known, that reince priebus is the tough one and the smart one, not debbie wasserman schultz. i'll just let mark murray comment on that. this is interesting that donald trump pivoted to reince priebus when we know they were locked in a battle prior to their convention and still are. >> it's amazing his rapid response. this news broke 15 minutes ago and he's already -- >> but he chose the reince priebus route. what is that? >> reince priebus is a good jumping off point. what happens monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday is actually very important to the ndemocrat. these conventions are very choreographed, staged -- >> except for the one in cleveland. >> again, that goes back to last week and democrats didn't want every speech was going to build to something and did not want a distraction. so having this bad news today

allows the focus. what matters the most is what bernie sanders says on monday, what president obama ends up saying on wednesday and most important of all what hillary clinton says on thursday. everything is building up. we'll see the totality of those four days, but certainly today is a way in which we just heard ben jealous give the endorsement for a lot of bernie sanders supporters say ahh. finally now we can move on and have that. that i have been wanting this for a while and today we got it, tamron. >> on abc's this week, donna brazile said someone will be forced to resign over the leaks to george stephanopoulos and we learned today that someone did. we'll be back. ♪ ♪

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we have new reaction in from the clinton campaign on the breaking news this hour. let me go to my colleague kristen welker. she's in charlotte where hillary clinton will hold a rally tomorrow. kristen, what can you tell us?

>> tamron, i'm just going to read you the statement because we got it moments ago. this is from hillary clinton herself who says, quote, i want to thank my long-time friend debbie wasserman schultz for her leadership of the democratic national committee over the past five years. i am grateful to debbie for getting the democratic party to this year's historic convention in philadelphia. and i know this week's events will be a success thanks to her hard work and leadership. there's simply no one better at taking the fight to the republicans than debbie, which is why i'm glad she's agreed to serve as honorary chair of my campaign's 50-state program to gain ground and elect democrats in every part of the country. and will continue to serve as a surrogate for my campaign nationally in florida and in other key states. i look forward to campaigning with debbie in florida and helping her in her re-election bid because as president i will need fighters like debbie in congress who are ready on day one to get to work for the american people. now, tamron, i want to give a little more background here because i just got off the phone with a top democratic official who says this is how we can understand the developments of

the past several hours. debbie wasserman schultz has been controversial among many corners of the democratic party for some months now. the clinton campaign has consistently resisted calls for her to resign. of course there've been a lot of calls from senator sanders himself, senator sanders supporters. however, in light of these recent e-mails that surfaced over the weekend, it became nearly impossible for her to keep her current position. she agreed with that assessment. democrats broadly agreed with that assessment. and the thinking is they just don't want anything to overshadow this upcoming democratic convention. they want all of the focus to be on party unity, and of course on secretary clinton and this new ticket. they felt as though yesterday's rollout of tim kaine went very well. and so they just want to build on that momentum. obviously this complicates their efforts to move forward smoothly, but that is why you're seeing this being handled so swiftly, tamron, they want to move on and focus on the theme. i said what's the theme going to be next week? what is the big theme going to

be and it's what we've heard secretary clinton say for months now, that we're stronger together. i think you'll hear her and tim kaine talk a lot about that and their vision for moving the country forward. they're going to try to pin a very strong counterpoint to the vision donald trump laid out last week, tamron. >> thank you very much, kristen. i'm joined now by former press secretary for president obama's 2012 re-election campaign. ben, thanks for joining me. let me get your reaction on how quickly this has been handled even with the president releasing a statement on this. >> debbie wasserman schultz has been a friend to the president over the past eight years from passing the affordable care act to helping him get re-elected, but the bottom line she'd become a distraction over the course of the past several months in the primary and certainly over the weekend. i think the difference is compare this to the controversy with melania trump's plagiarism last week, republicans went out, lied about that for days, dealt with it days later. democrats are dealing with this quickly making sure we go into

this convention unified without distraction. >> how do you measure this as a distraction another tweet from donald trump, the dems convention is cracking up and bernie is exhausted, no energy left. >> well, that's interesting from donald trump whose main opponent got on stage last week and refused to endorse him with delegates on the floor refusing to endorse donald trump. i think the big contrast to this week will be the unity of the democratic party. you saw the clinton campaign and the democratic party make sure that sanders supporters were included in the platform process. and i think this was another step in that process. and making sure they feel included and weren't consumed by this distraction. >> what do you believe senator sanders needs to say in that speech tomorrow? >> well, i think ultimately, look, he's going to vote for secretary clinton. he's endorsed her. but he needs to rally his coalition, which are elements of the obama coalition. and make sure that millennials in particular understand the stakes of coming out in

november. everything that we've worked for over the past eight years, whether that's expanding access to affordable health care, or more affordable college education, that's on the line in november. >> and clearly she received millions more votes than senator sanders, but he is part of the puzzle in making the case for her as she still has this high number when it comes to what people view as a lack of trust in her policies and even what a clinton administration would look like. >> i think you're talking about her favorability rating. >> yeah. >> i think a convention is a big moment in the campaign. and she'll have the opportunity to introduce parts of her biography that many voters may not be familiar with. >> which is such an interesting thing to say when you have one of the most well known figures in politics worldwide re-introducing herself. >> but you'll hear about her values and motivations, the fact that after law school she went to the children's defense fund and has been fighting on behalf of average people throughout her

career as opposed to donald trump who's really just been looking out for himself at the expense of everybody else. >> what age group are you thinking does not know that message by now about hillary clinton? >> well, it might be sadly my age group. and i think when they tune in this week she'll reach tens of millions of people with these convention speeches. she'll have people like bill clinton, barack obama, michelle obama and tim kaine help her make that case on her behalf. >> hallie jackson is standing by monitoring her phone with the latest reaction. what have you heard? >> you read the couple tweets donald trump came out with this and it's interesting this is something he's been doing for the last couple days, he's trying to famt democratic unity. they'll point again and again, and i think you'll see it this week to problems with democrats coming together, to dissatisfaction within the democratic party, to the bernie

sanders supporters who are out here in philadelphia as you know, we were just at city hall. and a ton of them are out. so you'll see donald trump continue to do this. >> but how does a trump campaign feel that's an original idea? it's like you continue to kick a tire and you're surprised it's a tire. this is a strategy they've used for some time trying to peel off some of the bernie sanders populous message, angry white voter message as it's been simply described. but there are no real numbers that substantiate any traction there. >> so i think what they're doing is trying to capitalizen news events of the day. there are two new things that have happened which obviously the vice presidential pick of tim kaine and of course this breaking news with debbie wasserman schultz. so you talk to people within the trump campaign and they believe that there is going to be a shift from some of these sanders supporters over the coming month or so. >> but they also believe they're going to get significant black vote and latino. >> sure. >> again, going back to reality versus assertions. are we seeing any more substance come from that campaign regarding what they believe or hope might be a bump out of their convention?

>> well, you're seeing the new cbs battleground states tracker he did get a little bit of a boost, he is up a couple points and is up over hillary clinton before the convention, will that stick? who knows. >> i want your thoughts on it as well from what you're hearing from the trump campaign, part of the hillary clinton campaign push with the e-mails is this could be from russia. that this is some lan -- i find it interesting donald trump's team pushed back when he is the conspirator in chief of any kind of conspiracy that comes out. his campaign is saying that this is all a desperate attempt, even donald trump jr. going on saying this is ridiculous that this could be tied in with russia wanting to see trump in the white house. >> yeah. i think we have the full screen here from the communications director, you know the clinton campaign is desperate to change the subject from the disunity of their convention when they're the ones bringing up compromised e-mail servers adding when should be apologizing to bernie sanders for the mistreatment he received at the hands of the

democratic national committee. >> i want to play sound this morning where the clinton campaign floated out this idea that this is possibly part of a larger issue. we don't have it yet, a larger issue of donald trump, paul manafort, who we've reported heavily on his ties to russia and ukraine, perhaps they want to see donald trump in the white house and that's why the leak was timed. what are your thoughts on that? >> i think it's a plausible theory. we know that the russians hacked the dnc e-mails. we know donald trump's campaign manager worked for viktor and we know donald trump praised vladimir putin at the same time at the suggestion he won't uphold our nato. i think this is part of a pattern. >> have we seen a pushback in the laury list of things ben has outlined from the campaign other than the tweets from the party nominee.

>> the remarks from donald trump -- >> nothing from paul manafort? >> no, but that might change this week. we'll see. >> very interesting few hours of the show, ben, thank you very much. hallie, as always. we're going to a quick break. we'll be back with more reaction to the big news this hour debbie wasserman schultz will resign as chair of the dnc. donna brazile will be the interim. got to give a shout out to my temple owls. across the globe in under an hour. whole communities are living on mars and solar satellites provide earth with unlimited clean power. in less than a century, boeing took the world from seaplanes to space planes, across the universe and beyond. and if you thought that was amazing, you just wait. ♪

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noted she'll continue to serve as the chair of the dnc through convention week and part of those duties she would ceremonial gavel in order and then gavel out the end of the week. she also included a line in her statement that she intends to address the delegates about the stakes in the election, meaning she still plans at least according to her in the statement still plans to speak to the convention. now, you can imagine if debbie wasserman schultz with all this controversy, with the sanders people, bernie sanders himself spending months saying she effectively was putting her hands on the scales for hillary clinton, if she steps out, think back to ted cruz and what his reception was like, you can imagine with hundreds of bernie sanders delegates there, over 1,000 that she'll be stepping into something like that. so i think there might be some movement now to see if she doesn't actually deliver that speech and instead just comes

out, gavels it in end of the week, gavels it out. then she's done as the dnc chair. obviously the sanders people don't just want her out as chair of the dnc, they're not in any mood i think to hear a speech from her, i think, this week. >> all right, steve kornacki, thank you. i'm joined by president and founder of the new democratic network also former dnc staffer and was candidate to be dnc chair in 2005, also with us democratic strategist chris kofinis, i'm kind of taken aback by the instant comparison to ted cruz walking out on stage and debbie wasserman schultz, maybe it hasn't registered in my mind how much she may or may not be disliked by bernie sanders supporters, but is that a fair comparison she could get a ted cruz reception, chris? >> i think that's the fear. i mean, when you have a lot of grassroots supporters of senator sanders who feel somehow the fix was in and they blame her, it

creates a potentially difficult situation where you don't want the first night of the convention where you have a clear message of unity that you want to communicate a very powerful contrast you want to make with donald trump and somehow start off with boos. it's not productive. >> it's counterproductive if you release a statement saying she's stepping down and then she gives a speech to bring it back up, doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of trying to get this tidied up before monday? >> that's right. >> i think if you're going to resign, i think the best thing to do is to move on. and so that way we focus on what we're here for, we're here to nominate the next president of the united states, not internal dnc drama. >> simon, what has this done to the dnc? when you read this e-mail. >> yeah. >> and this discussion that was taking place about senator sanders, how do you refute that the dnc had already not decided who it wanted. >> i think the dnc has been harmed by this and it's been

going on for months. remember, she got booed at the new hampshire speech at the end of last year. and i think that, you know, the party has to come together now. and i think we're clearing the underbrush. we're getting this done. it's going to be a painful process clearly, but i think donna brazile is a very unifying figure and i think she will be able to do a lot of good as the next chair of the party through the election. >> let's be clear, we don't know what rnc e-mails could one day float out. i'm not saying that there's anything would be ready to attack the nominee, but who would be surprised if these kind of conversations did not exist on that side as well. i'll artfully say it, i'm a journalist, you say it, what do you think? >> i have a feeling that the e-mails at the rnc are far worse by degrees that we cannot even grade. >> well, they had staff resign, remember? they had staff resign after trump won, right? who felt they couldn't work for the candidate. >> listen, we know that the trump and republicans are going to do whatever they want to do in terms of trying to make this bigger than it is. the reality is the degree of

dissatisfaction with their nominee, the degree of disunity is at historic level, unprecedented level we have never seen at least in my lifetime of politics. so the notion of any comparison is laughable. they have a problem they can't fix because they can't make their nominee better. our problem here is making clear to the american people what the stakes are and what the contrast is. they areot comparable. >> which is interesting when ben was on saying this would be a reintroduction of hillary clinton. it seems to me, simon, the focus is how clear of a contrast between donald trump and hillary clinton that is readily available to, i think, easily explain to potential voters as opposed to, oh, here is who she was in 1968. just seems so dated. >> and i think tim kaine brought an incredibly fresh voice to the ticket yesterday. i was really as somebody who's been doing this for 25 years, i was really struck with how smart and funny and interesting and comfortable tim kaine was. in some ways he's a different

kind of figure than we've seen among the more sort of, you know, programmed politicians. so i think we come in here -- until today, i think we had a lot of momentum. i think yesterday was a great day on the campaign. and there's a lot of enthusiasm for this ticket among the delegates. >> and as two democrats i get why you think that. but i'll point out two things, like mike pence, the next day we're not talking about -- >> that's the problem. >> we're not talking about tim kaine. we're talking about this issue that's hovering over what debbie wasserman schultz, and you admit that's a problem. >> of course it's a problem. it's not because the average voter -- let's be honest, average voter is not sitting there thinking about this stuff. but what it distracts from and what it does cost us is the ability to be focusing singularly on this contrast between hillary clinton where she wants to take the country and this positive vision and the dark vision that donald trump offers. if you're not making that argument, if you're not spending your time with people like us focusing on that, it's a cost. there's an expense to that. you can't get that time back.

>> and can i add one thing? the truth is this process of the sanders and clinton campaigns coming together has been really successful, right? the platform committee was heavily negotiated. >> until this e-mail. >> yeah. and we also saw what happened with this deal that got done on the super delegates. that was a really, smart, thoughtful deal that now has sanders people feeling like they got something. so that stuff all worked very well. and that's why this was a little bit -- >> speaking of smart, thoughtful responses, is it smart and thoughtful to say, listen, yes, this leak happened but look at donald trump's campaign, look at some of the people working there and their ties and even the party's platform change regarding russia and nato. >> he was very direct. and i think that, you know, this is an unusual event. we've never really had anything like this happen in the modern history of american politics. i assume there will be more stuff that gets released. i think that's part of what's going on here. but the key is as chris has been saying is that the democrats have to stick to their knitting, make their case to the american

people and manage this on the sidelines. >> the good news of it all is this. past today we're not going to be talking about this on monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday, or friday. we're going to move forward. that's the important thing. i think we have an incredible opportunity because to simon's point the party's coming together in at least ways i think some of the cynics or critics didn't think was possible. this offers a great opportunity, especially tomorrow night, to show how the party's unified in terms of what the stakes are. >> tomorrow night is bernie sanders big night to help unify the party further. meanwhile though on the streets of philadelphia we have some new live images of one of the protests still taking place. i believe we have those images for you not very far from where we are. about 1,000 people, i'm being told, showing up, sombere are bernie sanders supporters. see the big bus there, bernie for president. we'll be right back. ♪

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welcome back. we're going to take you to the ground where one protest is taking place right now. jacob rascon walking in a group of people here. what are they telling you, jacob? >> so we are with mike grom, he is a delegate from ohio. now, you just learned with us that the dnc chair is going to be stepping down. your reaction. >> i think it's a little bit too late, you know? convention starts tomorrow. all the primaries are done. the damage has been done, you know? if anything i think hillary needs to step down at this point with all the leak that we've been reading the last couple days. >> and we have probably a thousand people at this march. we're expecting at least the organizers say thousands more coming here. what is this all about? isn't it too late for bernie sanders? >> this march is to show bernie and the rest of the country how

many people believe in him, believe in bernie and what he's all about. it's not just about bernie, it's about all of us. we're also here to raise our voices and opinion on what's going on with this whole election process. i mean, it's been rigged from the get-go. >> thank you so much for your time. sorry to wrap you. back to you, tamron. >> jacob, thank you very much. we continue to follow the breaking news from philadelphia. thank you for watching this special edition of msnbc live. the democratic national convention in philadelphia. i'll be back here tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. eastern time. up next, a special edition of "meet the press daily" with chuck todd, who is also here in philadelphia. ink big. or demand your own space. don't you dare leave it all behind. don't you dare ask what's next.

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