what sacrifice have you made for your country. >> i have made a lot of sacrifices. i've worked very hard. creates thousands of jobs, tens of thousands of jobs. >> those are sacrifices? >> oh, sure, i've made those sacrifices. >> good morning and welcome to "am joy." in a sitdown with abc news,

donald trump responded to this charge made at the dnc on thursday. >> look at the brave patriots who died defending united states of america. you will see all faiths, genders, and ethnicities. you have sacrificed nothing and no one. that kaz khizr khan. he is not a public figure but the whole country knows him because of his son who was killed protecting his unit in iraq in 2004. his parents made about as compelling a case as the fundamental americanness as muslim migrants as you could get and they offered to lend trump the well-worn copy of the

constitution. and he has banned migrants to the u.s. and some call it flatly unconstitutional. and they responded to donald trump with their own yesterday. >> he is not worthy of our comments. he has no decency. he has a dark heart. >> i don't think he knows the meaning of the sacrifice, the meaning of the word. i'm so sorry, that he does not have any idea what islam is. >> trump then responded gep last night in a -- again in a press release that quite that the captain was a hero to our country and we should honor all who have made the ultimate sacrifice to our country safe. the real problem are the radical islamic terrorists who killed him and the efforts to do us harm. and in all of this, this is the first time he's acknowledged captain khan's surface. and in case you heard that he is

softening his ban on muslim migrants, here is the latest version. >> you could say it is an expansion. i'm looking at territories. people are so upset when i use the word muslim. you can't use the word muslim. and i'm okay. i'm talking territory instead of muslim. but just remember this, our constitution is great. but it doesn't necessarily give us the right to commit suicide, okay. >> joining me now, national security kmeerns malcolm nance and steve cortes. do you think it might have been better for donald trump to leave it alone and not attempt to respond to the khan family because he has not made it better by continuing to talk. >> well, listen, i think he had to respond. when you are attacked that directly and we have nothing but respect and empathy for the khan family and this is the sabbath day and there is no greater love

than to lay down your life for a friend and he clearly did that and because of that he is an american hero and donald trump and i and all americans respect what he can. his father directly attacked donald trump and given that, even though the circumstances of the khan family are incredibly sad, i still think donald trump has the right to respond to those criticisms. >> so respond to a dad who lost his son fighting for our country, this is -- this guy is not a politician, he is talking about his own americanness and his sacrifice for the country and you are saying it was appropriate for donald trump to go back at that dad and then also claim that he, too, has sacrificed? it. >> well, joy, you are right, it would be if he was a private citizen but he said at the copvention donald trump has a dark heart. >> because he wanted to alert people like him to this country. that is why he gave that speech. >> he does want to -- >> ban people -- >> a temporary halt on areas of

the world where there is high incidents of jihadist terror. given what has gone on in orlando, san bernardino and boston and all over europe, that is a sensible strategy. temporarily it makes sense for america to say our ku-- securit comes first. >> who do we ban from charleston or sandy hook or ban from the police officers, who do we stop. >> that is a red herring. >> no it is not. >> that has nothing to do with islam. >> right. because the death across this country is not just limited to people who practice the muslim faith. there are practicing christians who are committing mass murder and by donald trump unconstitutionally singles out muslims only he is ignoring the 30,000 people a year killed in this country and singing out one -- singling out one religion

and proposing an unconstitutional ban based on -- >> we have jihadi terror and violence in our streets. >> sandy hook was not violence in our streets. it was an american, not a muslim who went into a school and slaughtered 26 people including six peoples -- there is the jihadist -- >> the tour not linked in any way. sadly both of them are on the increase and our present policies are doing nothing to deter either one. they are apple and oranges. >> let me go to an expert on this. malcolm nance, those are apples and oranges. we focus on one religion and the rest of that is just something that is not relevant. your thoughts? >> i think that george washington is spinning in his grave. do trump supporters and trump not fundamentally understand what the american experience is and what we created this country

for. all of the pain and the suffering that have occurred since 1776, we were in philadelphia last week, the city of my birth, and they don't understand what america is about. it is not about exceptionalism in the sense that you except people from america. we are a nation of migrants. the entirety of the american experience is about defending those values. that family, they are gold star family. and again, i'm a combat veteran. have nothing but respect for any american of any political stripe of any race, creed or color. if they give their child and they wear that gold star on their lapel, end of conversation. they cannot conduct, what i see, as political warfare against a man's heart and the loss of a woman's son and expect them to say that they have equal

sacrifice. on the basis of building a building or hiring some people. i'm sorry. this is absolutely, positively a disgraceful day for donald trump. he needs to talk to his military advisers and recalibrate himself. >> he did not see equal sacrifice. >> he said he made sacrifices too. i want to let dean in here because you haven't had a comment. your thoughts. >> when i heard donald trump's comments about the khan family and equating his own being in plush boardrooms and flying in luxury jets is a sacrifice to someone in the military, what cams to mind were joseph welch's famous words to mccarthy, have you no sense of decency left and a man who has done so many despicable things. i didn't think he could say something more horrendous in the campaign but he did not acknowledge the sacrifice of the khan family when he had two opportunities and went after mrs. khan and saying you are

silent and when he told katy tur and others to be quiet because he didn't like what she was saying and his actions in the boardroom -- that is the most despicable week i've seen in the trump campaign this week. >> let's go through -- because he said he, too, has made sacrifices. >> the question was asked, have you made sacrifices. >> and he equated himself to the khan family. >> nor did he say equal to khan. >> now you were talking about splitting hairs. now you are splitting the biggest hair of them all. i want to bring in tarir khan. he was on this week with george stephanopoulos. take a listen. >> you said you won't let his son in america. >> he doesn't know that. i saw him. he was very emotional and probably looked like a nice guy

to me. his wife -- if you look at his wife, she was sanding there, had nothing to say, maybe she wasn't allowed to have anything to say. you tell me. but plenty of people have written that. >> are you offended by what you just heard? >> i am a muslim-american and this is what my opinion is about it -- gaining a political gain on somebody's supreme sacrifice at the same time that captain khan was fighting for the same cause, fighting isis and keeping america safe. at the same time -- >> captain khan was not killed fighting isis, he was killed in iraq. >> the same thing. keeping america safe. it is the same ideology. >> and i asked you a specific question sir and i need an answer. are you ofepded by hearing, as a muslim yourself, by hearing

donald trump dismiss mrs. khan saying she was not allowed to speak when we learned from her interview that she was too emotional to speak. were you offended saying him saying mrs. khan probably wasn't allowed to speak? >> i'm not offended because it was not clear. donald trump was not clear what was the real thing. either she was really stopped to speak about it -- >> it was not clear? what? i don't understand what you mean by that. >> i mean by that, because it was not clear. donald trump was not clear why she didn't speak up. she is a mother. >> what does it matter. >> i'll let dean respond. >> the big question is what does it matter if a gold star mother spoke at the dnc or not. does it in any way say the sacrifice of that family is any less. does it say the sacrifice of captain khan is any less. donald trump was asked twice by the media about captain khan and his family and neither time -- neither time did he say we

should praise his service, prayers go to the family and we stand with the family. and he attacked the mother. it had to do with islam or she wasn't able to speak. donald trump has taken to to the point where we have to have a conversation about his mental capability and his mental capacity to be president of the united states. the constitution does not say anything about that. article 2 said you have to be 35 years old and born in america and it does call for removal of a president but at some point we have to ask is he mentally competent to stand as commander-in-chief, politics aside, democrat or republican, i think that is an important question to ask. >> donald trump has made illusions in the past to himself in a quasimilitary context and the famous cover of the new york daily news after he attacked john mccain -- attacked john mccain's service, saying likes

people who didn't get shot down and he was a hero, spent four years in the hands of the enemy as a prisoner of war and denegraded his server and donald trump deferment, aer deferment and so he den grates john mccain. those are the deferments that donald trump got. this is what he said about the time he spent in the military academy as a high school student. he essentially said that his experience was just like being in the military. in the new york military academy an expensive prep school where his patients had sent him to correct poor behavior gave him, quote, more training militarily than a lot of guys who go into the military. he said, i felt that i was in the military in the true sense because i dealt with those people. that is in a new biography coming out in "the new york times." so malcolm, you have a person who has repeatedly made himself

sound like a quasi-military person and nower denegrading the parents of a veteran. >> i agree, there is a mental defect that has to be addressed at some point. donald trump appears to use military people. he said he gives money to charities, he said that he -- he surrounds himself with guy that's wear veteran hats and that is banquet racism against countries who we've been fighting to defend, who my special intelligence officers and people close to my heart are out in the field this very moment lying next to them in the mud defending our allies and fighting people who would come and harm u.s. citizens. great. but to use them as props and then when he's actually confronted with a real family that is actually made the supreme sacrifice, look, to me, i'm an old navy chief and we have a saying in the chiefs, i'm throwing my anchors down on this particular subject. he is a coward. and he is a chicken hawk.

and he wants to use the military and he steps on them to achieve goals by actually splitting up veterans, creating veteran versus veteran warfare for his own political needs. it is disgusting. and there needs to be a recall brasion in the souls and -- recalibrati recalibration. this is not a patriot. he proved himself a coward in 1968 when the vietnam war was at the height of the tete offense and he chickened out. he has to right to claim that he supports them solely because he throws money at them. that is a soloist effectiveness. >> then why is he getting support from the military and veterans. >> because they are all pathological liars. he lies to them. that man is a pathological liar.

[ overlapping speakers ] >> it was ruled lie of the year. >> you called him a liar and said he is not a patriot and incompetent. how is that for character assassination. >> i've served my time, my family has put 110 years into the defense of this nation since the civil war. so don't ever question my patriotism or my opinion. >> i didn't. you're questioning donald trump's. i don't question yours at all. >> we are out of time, steve. but i think that every political strategist, whether they are a republican or democrat, has been appalled by donald trump to the family. i'm sorry, it is very difficult to defend it. i almost half expect you to come here and say that is a mistake on his part but you are saying he did the right thing by going after this dad. i'm going to give you one more opportunity on this. do you think it was the right thing to do given this is not just democrats that are saying this, this dad, a grieving mother and father saying his wife couldn't speak, as a political matter, wasn't that the wrong decision to make.

>> regarding the wife, i don't think he attacked anyone. >> okay. steve -- steve, he said, well maybe she wasn't allowed to speak. again denegrading her religion. i don't know what to do with you if you can't hear that. >> he did not attack her. >> okay. >> help me jesus. >> get to the bigger issue, steve. >> this is the bigger issue. unfortunately much of the muslim world has a problem in the treatment of women and i have a wife and three daughters and as a man surrounded by strong women, it troubles me that in the preponderance of muslim countries women with treating as second class citizens. donald trump has been vociferous about this issue and they can't only defend rights when it is politically -- >> hold on. hold on. let's let dean respond. >> this week he told katy tur in front of the nation, be quiet. because he didn't like her question. be quiet. and in certain places of the

muslim world women are not treated properly. that is ridiculous. that is wrong. and third, there are nine muslim countries with women leaders and i hope we catch up. >> and you are speaking from a man, that you have to treat women like -- and i won't say the last word because we are not on cable. and one last time, sajid tarrar. >> do you believe it was a mistake for donald trump to go after this family and should he instead have just honored his sacrifice and moved on. >> i think it was a mistake on his side to bring -- put capital on it. not just the donald trump side, but the thing is, i wanted to say, 80 years of -- 8 years of barack obama has done for muslims. he wanted to give a copy of the constitution to donald trump. why doesn't he give it to obama.

>> guantanamo bay is your closing argument. we're out of time. thank you. next up, on the latest on the cyber war on democrats. stay with us. and these are the lungs. (boy) sorry. (dad) don't worry about it. (vo) at our house, we need things that are built to last. that's why we got a subaru. (avo) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. sorry ma'am. no burning here. ugh. heartburn. try new alka-seltzer heartburn relief gummies. they don't taste chalky and work fast. mmmm. incredible. can i try? she doesn't have heartburn. new alka seltzer heartburn relief gummies. enjoy the relief. what would help is simply being able to recognize a fair price.

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a computer network used by the clinton campaign. the campaign said a data program was hacked but there is no evidence e-mails or other sensitive investigation was compromised. the fbi said it is looking into all three hacking incidents. and regarding those incidents, the trump campaign told nbc news, quote, this seems to be a problem wherever hillary clinton goes. hopefully this time there wasn't classified or top secret information that puts american lives at risk. and joining me michael mcfaul. thank you for being here. and i want to start on the question of why in your view, having been an ambassador to russia, they might have an interest in specifically hacking into the democratic sort of political apparatus. >> well the russian government has an interest in hacking into every important american organization, democrat, republican, state department, pentagon. that is called intelligence. they do that all of the time.

and they are in credibly good at it. i think people underestimate their capabilities. what is new about this situation is this data has been use ford a political motive. when wikileaks released the data on monday, they were seeking to influence what happened at the democratic convention. the piece we don't know for sure is did the russians give the data to wikileaks. they will never tell us and the russians will never tell us. but i think the circumstantial evidence points pretty clearly to the russians. and that is new. using intelligence to try to influence our elections, our democratic process, that is fundamentally new. >> and what would be -- there is an article in slate that is pretty brutal that calls donald trump potentially putin's puppet and they write if the russian president could design a perfect candidate to undermine american interest and advance his own he would look a lot like donald

trump and he puts his case down to not that trump is colluding with the russians but he is open to flattering and so openly manipulating that putin could flatter his way into essentially being able to manipulate the american president were trump to be in the white house. why do you support there seems to be so much affinity between trump and putin and what do you know about their connection, if any? >> well, it is the pro-putin and the pro-trump part. he just says what the kremlin believes. shockingly so. and every day there is a new shock. today he said crimea should be part of russia. he said the ukraine -- russia has not invaded ukraine. the last one is just empirically not true. and the second one is a policy position that trump has taken that is against the obama administration and 100 other countries in the world.

earlier, in the week he said russia should conduct espionage. and no one has advocated that. and five days ago, we forgot about it because he makes so much news, he said we should reconsider our obligations to our nato allies. all of those ideas are one that mr. putin and the kremlin support. >> and it is amazing that the affinity for putin isn't new. they think he is the real leader and rudy giuliani have said it and republicans have said that but what is new with donald trump is the part that ambassador mcfaul just mentioned, but rachel maddow brought this out but the only objection was on crimea that places united states on the side of the people of crimea, he

essentially wanted a position, the campaign wanted a position that was the putin position, essentially, on crimea being part of russia. he has talked about weakening our alliance to nato. this is unprecedented given the relationship that even his son hos touted. >> i have never talked about this and what we are seeing here are patently obvious to people in the intelligence community. doesn't matter whether it is just russia. this is a political warfare. it has the full framework of an old school kgb operation but no one in an organization like that, even pute whoin who ran tb had no idea where the circumstance would come together where a candidate of the united states could be manipulated or a operation carried out which would give them the advantage to

put a person in that would immediate all of the post-soviet objectives of destabilizing nato, fracturiing europe and thn approving all of russia's most recent offensive operations, the platform part that was there on crimea was significant but the part about not arming the ukraine government was a core republican platform component, they wanted it in the republican party at the rnc, the trump people there deliberately struck that out. that is almost giving donald trump -- i'm sorry, that is almost giving vladimir putin permission to invade the ukraine. our three allies, astonia, lithuania and latvia is at great fear that russia is redrawing the line and expect their borders to stop at the polish border. trevor knoll the other day made a joke about this where he said it is almost like the man

consume churchy an candidate is now being supported by the degradation of our electoral process. >> we need to talk about this more. hopefully you'll both come back to do so. thank you. and coming up -- after all of that, is donald trump even running a real campaign? ♪ using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the framework... wire... and plants needed to give my shop... a face... no one will forget. see what the power of points can do for your business. learn more at chase.com/ink it's built-in backup wbraid helps stop leaks see what the power of points can do for your business. by channeling them back into the core

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>> democracy isn't a spectator sport. america isn't about, yes, he will. it is about yes, we can. and we're going to carry hillary to victory this fall because that is what the moment demands. >> welcome back to "am joy." the obama's brought down the house in philly this week. and the most powerful of power couples are signed on to be prominent voices throughout the campaign. it is a campaign full of heavy hitters, including the former president and current vice president joe biden, not to mention the queen of thursday nights, shand raw rhymes. one of the ways that clinton is running a very real campaign. the question is, is trump? joining me now, two expert strategists, ferdinand jer

mandy. and let's talk about the things that are happening in debates but haven't happened this time. there was talk about whether trump wanted to get out of one of the debates. he acuted hillary trying to rig the debates because two were up against two major nfl games, same thing with bernie, but what happened after that is donald trump claimed that the nfl sent him a letter complaining about the fact that the two of the debr debates were up against nfl games but they said we obviously wish they could find another night, we didn't send a letter to donald trump. what is going on here? >> nothing. >> believe it or lot, it is smart politics by donald trump. if i'm manford, do i not let donald trump debate hillary

clinton. in the primary, you had 14 guys on stage and on the whole stage, he had to speak 15 or 20 minutes with reporters not so willing to follow up. presidential debate against hill south carolina a real debate. you are talking 90 minutes and he has to speak half of that time and there is no push-back or booingen -- booing allowed and he could not rig the process like he wanted to before september. >> and what would be the fallout if he did during the republican primary and skipped the debate and claims he was doing a charity fundraiser for the military but we'll talk about that later but what if he is not going. >> but to touch on what you said right here, he just stood there and didn't say anything at all. he allowed everybody else to argue against each other because they were trying to be the alternative to him.

and then he would be like, i'm going to pick this person and back them up. and then it came down to three, by the time it came down to three the momentum was so far gone and he's like i'm done. so here is what i think is going to happen. he's talking about the next rigged system. he will say i want the libertarian in the debate because he doesn't want one-on-one because he wants other people in the debate, like jill stein or other people, at some point in one of the polls, so i think that is what he is going to try to do and make that argument. it should be fair. we should have everybody in. >> and it is an interesting point, he can't do the crooked hillary thing because he doesn't have the crowd to egg him on. and schedules. right out of the dnc, they hit the road together. and last week donald trump and mike pence were separate. and that is the schedule of where they are going. through ohio. they were in pennsylvania and

now the next trip is to youngstown and columbus, ohio and a rally this afternoon and no scheduled events and look at the donald trump and pence schedule -- nada. nothing. is that usual? >> no, it is not. but is this a usual campaign? no, it is not. and right now, a lot of republicans, and not trump republicans, they are saying this is a landslide disaster because there is no organization or money. and donald trump will tell you, without money there is no building or a proj toeect to go and now people are saying where are you going and what are you going to do because it could be disastrous. >> during the convention, the trump campaign was texting out to give money and at one point trump said they would match a million dollars and they were begging for money. and then in the e-mails and on

the point of ad spending, karine, they and outside groups have spent $57 million to run the devastating ad with little kids listening to donald trump's rhetoric. the trump side has only spent $3.6 million. >> well this goes into the conversation we just had which is that there is no real campaign here. we don't see any inkling of a traditional campaign at all. and while clinton and kaine are out there talking about jobs, he's insulting the mother of a fallen shoulder. it is -- it is actually insane. and then he allows himself to get baited to tweet and is constantly out of control. there is no -- there is no money. there is no real campaign. he is not building in the key battleground states that are very important in winning in the election. >> and it sounds like almost writing off colorado. i have to play this sound bite.

one of the places they went is to mississippi. this is donald trump senior in mississippi. >> i believe in traditions. i don't see the nonsense created. so those are -- i understand, that is how people feel, leaving the traditions -- [ inaudible ]. >> that is supporting keeping the confederate flag flying in mississippi. >> that is where reagan kicked off his 1980 campaign. and he knows exactly what he is doing and donald trump jr. knew what he was doing in philadelphia, mississippi yesterday. >> and marco rubio gets a shoutout on "am joy." that is exactly what he wants and needs to win re-election. he had a promo. we'll be back. and coming up, donald trump plays his sacrifice, including the money he's raised for veteran groups. do those plans hold any water. and take a look at this --

>> now because of your fire marshal, who i am not a fan of, he's probably a democrat, probably -- probably a guy that doesn't get it, i'm going to go into the other room and say hello to people that didn't get your location. >> but before that, which may have been the real reason that trump was uppet, do n -- upset,t miss that after the break. and these are the lungs. (boy) sorry. (dad) don't worry about it. (vo) at our house, we need things that are built to last. that's why we got a subaru. (avo) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.

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for a public safety and trying to make certain venues go off successfully, and safely sometimes there are rule lz and regulations that were required to enforce. but it doesn't bother me at all. and lacy is the same fire marshal named krcivilian of the year after colorado springs last year and he was also stuck in an elevator for 30 minutes before the rally. and he was saved by brett lacy's colorado springs fire department. >> we have over a thousand people in the room next door and they won't let them in and the reason they won't let them in is because they don't know what the hell they're doing, that is why. okay. using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the fruit... veggies... and herbs

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i was very responsible with long with a group of people for getting the vietnam memorial

built in downtown manhattan which to this day people thank me for. i have raised millions of dollars for the veries, i'm helping the vets a lot. >> that was donald trump on abc this week defending his claim that he's made plenty of so-called sacrifices and that is in response to khan, the gold star father whose son died fighting in iraq. and specifically to the way mr. khan addressed mr. trump directly at the dnc this week. >> you have sacrificed nothing, and no one. >> of course, no amount of financial giving could compare to the loss of a child. and no one except apparently donald trump would suggest that comparison. but even putting that aside, there are serious questions about how much trump really has given to veterans causes over the years. and joining me now from washington, d.c. is david

fahrenthold, thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> and there is a statement that the trump campaign has put out in response to previous questions about his charity giving, saying he's made significant financial and kind contributions and many veterans organizations personally and not through the donald trump foundation and there is no way to see those gifts that have been made. >> we spent time looking for the secret gifts and given money through his foundation which is mostly other people's money. trump hasn't given to his own foundation since 2008. he said he gives money in secret and i have spent time looking for it and have found no evidence of it so far. >> and he made the claim to abc news that he -- he essentially paid to fund the vietnam war memorial. to your knowledge, is that true. >> it is not the one in washington, it is in manhattan

and that happened in 1984. there was a big commission to build a vietnam war memorial in new york. and he was part of that commission. he didn't go to very many of the meetings and when he did, he brought roerleporters for him ae did donate in 1984 and he was responsible for that but since then it doesn't look like he's given, except for the $1 million he gave under pressure this year, there hasn't been a huge amount of veterans giving between 1984 and this year. >> and your reporting, you look at donald trump's claim that he's given millions of dollars to charities for veterans over the year and he found less than $10,000 over 7 years. discuss that a little bit. >> sure. so everybody knows, earlier this year trump had the fundraiser in iowa where he raised money for other veterans and he said i gave a million dollars for veterans and four months later it found out he hadn't given the money and he only gave it under pressure from us. he did give a million dollars to

one veterans group all at once back in may. we were looking at charitible donations and i could find one gift in the time out of his own pocket for less than $10,000 and that wasn't to a veterans group. >> this is just an additional group, showing up on social media and the weird story about the tim tebow helmet that was purchased with charitable funds from the donald trump foundation. do you know anything about that. >> yeah. so one of the rules about being president of the charity, you can't buy stuff for yourself. that is totally against the rules. so in 2012, trump goes to a charity auction for the susan g. comen breast cancer event and trump pays $10,000 for the trump helmet and which is more than

you would pay and he takes it with him and he said i bought this myself and when he writes the check to pay he used money from the donation meant for charity. we are figuring out what became of the helmet. but if he kept it for himself, he is violating irs rules. >> i want to play you a couple of sound bites from the veterans adviser defending donald trump on his issue and his name is al baldisario and an adviser and on may 31st he is responding to the questions such as the ones you've raised. >> they are using veterans as political pawn and it must stop. donald trump is doing this from the heart. you are all focused on the way he's raised the money. i think the liberal media and i've been dealing with you for a long time, need to get your head out of your butt and respond to the real issues. >> and before i let you respond to that, this is also al on july

19th and he was on the radio show and he said the following about hillary clinton. >> this whole thing disgusts me. hillary clinton should be put in the firing line and shot for treason. i would remind people who this person is. and what do you say to the criticism that the media is using this investigation of his veterans giving because they are slanted against donald trump? >> well, we set out in this story to check what trump himself said in public in january in iowa, he said i've given a million dollars, past tense. and i've raised this money from others. and a few weeks after that, i started checking. did the groups actually get the money. thinking that would take an hour and that he had given the money and that would be it but the groups that trump had promised the money to hadn't gotten it and he only promised half of the money and haven't given away any of his own money and that started down the chain what happened to the money that led

to all of this. but if trump had done what he said he was going to do and given the money away and given the million dollars right away, none of this would happen. we are checking promises that he made in public. i'm not coming up with an agenda that i think he should have done but i'm seeing if he said he was going to do. >> david fahrenthold, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. and much more ahead. hillary clinton and donald trump very different strategies to get to the white house. and debbie wasserman schultz is just weeks away from the race of her life. we have exclusive new numbers on how that is going. don't go away.

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that promises to be like none other we've seen before. each party has made their choice, to candidates who -- two candidates who are different and starkly different future for the vision of the united states. >> we are not afraid. we will rise to the challenge just as we always have. >> violence in our streets, and the chaos our communities. >> we have the most dynamic and diverse people in the world. >> death, destruction, terrorism, and weakness. >> don't let anyone tell you that our country is weak. we're not. >> i am your voice. >> i will carry all of your voices and stories with me to the white house. >> nobody knows the system better than me.

which is why i alone can fix it. let's be stronger together, my fellow americans. >> and joining me now is media manner senior eric boehlert and karine jean pierre and amy kremer. and this is morning in america versus midnight in america and that is the two ways they are running. i want to play you some sound of the audience at the event after the republican convention, mike pence and donald trump went separately out into the country to start campaigning. mike pence essentially said that the president said that the country is already great and this is the reaction of the audience. this was in michigan on thursday. take a look. >> this president stood up and he said that america is already great. things are going well.

>> amy, it was kind of stunning to hear a republican audience booing the idea that america is great. is that a good thing for the trump campaign? that optic? >> joy, i think the issue here is that we are a free nation and we have liberty and we have the potential to be great. but where things are now, they are not great. our economy is in the tank. we have a problem with illegal immigration and we have terrorism going around the world and it has come to our borders and i think what the american people want is to face that reality and deal with it. and that is why that -- you can call it dark in america if you want, but the bottom line is that is reality and people want to fix those problems and that is what they were trying to -- i think show there. >> i think it is interesting. one of the things you just said there is interesting because there is social science research about what people's perception of the country are.

you said that economy is in the tank. the unemployment rate is about 5% and for white americans in some cases it is under 5% and we have the dow, the stm -- the stock market soaring and the economy is definitely in the tank and why do you perceive it being in the tank when all of the macro economic numbers show the economy is recovering and in good shape. >> it is not in good shape. >> it is not? >> no. when you can't get a job, the economy is not in good shape. when our gdp is not rising -- >> but it is. you can't say that it is not rising when it is. i need to correct that. the gdp is rising. >> the people on unemployment, they are not on the rolls because they have been out of job for so long. when you have african-american youths that can't get a job. the unemployment rate for our millennials is astronomicals. >> do you know what it was for

the bush era for african-americans. >> i don't, joy. >> it was higher. >> okay. well the bottom line is that the economy is not doing great right now. and that is -- you can argue with me all you want. we could sit here -- >> i'm just giving you the data. >> this is the thing. people are going to decide this election and for the people across the heartland, the economy is not doing good right now. >> and i think it is a valid point that you have, a lot of people in parts of the country, particularly who worked in the manufacturing industries that feel underemployed for them it is a tough time and we've talked to these people. why do you support, before i come to the rest of the panel, that president obama has a 50% plus approval rating in the country right now? why do you think, amy? >> you are asking me. i thought you went to the other -- >> i will in a minute. but why do you think president obama has such a high approval rating right now. >> he is a likeable guy. i like him too. i'm sure he's a great guy to have a beer with and hang out with, i just don't like his policies. and he's a lame duck and out on

the campaign trail in incredible order. i don't know anybody who is better than him besides his wife michelle obama but he is out there campaigning and that is what he does best and people like him. i'm not surprised. >> let's come to the panel. we have this very different -- and i think it is important that we have amy go first because you do have different perceptions of the countries, either it is greatness or unpack that for great reasons and whether the economy is good. there is polling that show that the republicans think that the country is doing poorly even though the macro economic data said it is not. why do you think that is. >> we have republicans, on all levels, federal and state and local level, saying how badly the economy was. and then most recently, for a year, you had 14 or 16 candidates saying we're in a disarray, we're going down the tank, the tubes. so when you have people talking about how negative it is, of

course folks are going to perceive that there is something wrong. but the numbers, as you stated, the data is the data. hey, in michigan, the auto industry had one of the best years that they've had in a long, long time. and so it's just, it is the making of the republican establishment and the republican leaders. this is why we are where we are today with republicans feeling that way. >> and it might not just be republicans. in our "wall street journal" poll, the average among democrats with a negative view of hillary clinton, only 8% say the country is headed in the right direction and 89% say wrong track. to the next data set. among democrats with a positive view of hillary clinton, what is your mood in the direction of the country, 47% say right direction and 41% say wrong direction. we don't know if that is down to the perception of the economy. it could be gridlock in washington. it could be that the house republicans make them feel that way. so we don't know what it is.

is it just what karine said so is there more to it, is there republican messaging. >> there is two tracks. it is the politicians and the conservative media. donald trump is essentially running this bubble campaign. he is taking every talking point from rush limbaugh and fox news about the dire almost hysterical state of america under obama, which isn't true. and he looked at that and said i'm going to run a national campaign. i'm going to run for president on this stuff. worked great in the republican primary. now after the convention, he has to face, you know, mainstream america and he's going to be talking about how the country is broken and falling apart and a divided crime scene. those don't add up to the facts. he's have a tough time pushing this public message through november and again this is going back to kind of a conservative media view of america. it doesn't match the facts. >> it is a distorted view. but amy, on the things you think are going wrong in the country,

what have you heard from donald trump that you think would fix, for instance, the economy if you believe it is in the tank, as you said what, do you think donald trump will do about it? >> well, joy, first of all, i will say that donald trump has signed the front of many checks, whereas hillary clinton has not. she's not a job-creator and that is a fact. donald trump has created thousands of jobs. and quite honestly -- >> but let me ask you, we're having a conversation so i want to stop you right there. what does owning a business have to do with running the united states? what previous -- what previous -- >> it is not the government's responsibility -- >> but he'll be heading the government. >> it is not the government's responsibility to create jobs. >> amy. he's running not to be a leader of a company, he is running to be the president of the united states. >> i understand that. let me finish and answer your question. >> if you are saying that his qualification is that he is a businessman but in the next breath you say but it is not the government's job to create jobs -- >> let me finish my answer. let me answer you. he understands what it takes to

create jobs and therefore he is going to get rid of the over-bearing policies and regulations that are tampering job growth, that are hurting these companies that are shipping jobs overseas that are taking employees out and putting in machines to buy a coffee or a coke or whatever where it is automated. he understands all of that. and he understands that outsourcing manufacturing, how many jobs have been lost to that. he understands that when hillary clinton says they are getting rid of coal miner's jobs -- >> she didn't say that. so let me ask you -- hold on. >> yeah, go ahead. >> trump has outsourced all of his manufacturing to companies outside of the united states. to workers outside of the united states. so he, too, has committed, what you consider to be the economic outsourcing. why would he, as president, be more helpful to workers if he is the guy who outsources. his shirts are made in china and everything with his name on it,

none of it is made here. >> i'll tell you how, joy. he understands what this tpp trade deal is going to do. yes, i'm for free trade. but i'm for free and fair trade and donald trump is too. >> but you haven't hasn't answered my question. >> this is the answer to your question. >> you have a lot of words but we don't have a lot of time. >> but how. >> by not going along with the trade agreement. that is how. >> and essentially amy said deregulation, which is a standard republican idea, not a trump idea, and outsourcing for a living, i'm not sure i understood her answer, but do you? >> no, i don't understand her answer. you said it perfectly. he's outsourced everything he's done and he's outsourced every product and he is proven to lead that he could be a leader or has the temperament to be president of the united states. >> we'll have more. my guests are sticking around. eric, i'll get you in when we

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were you suggesting that putin would rather see him as president than you. >> i am not going to jump to that conclusion, but laying out the facts raises serious issues about russian interference in our elections and democracy and for trump to encourage that and praise putin despite what appears to be a deliberate effort to try to effect the election i think raises national security issues. >> back with me, eric boehlert, and karine jean pierre and amy

pack ert. and we spoke more about donald trump and the weird affinity with vladimir putin's russia. let me play one more sound bite. >> if you take the encouragement that the russian's hack into american e-mail accounts, if you take his quite excessive praise for putin, his absolute allegiance to a lot of russian wish-list foreign policy positions, his effort to try to distance himself from that backlash, which rightly came not just from democrats but from republicans and independents, national security and intelligence experts, leads us once again to conclude he is not tempermentally fit to be president and commander-in-chief. >> and eric, the point that -- this condemnation coming from republican and democrats, and horowitz has been tougher than donald trump on anyone else on

this affinity for vladimir putin. as a media matter, how could the media handle this to try to balance on the one hand and other hand that is unprecedented. how should we handle this. >> that is unprecedented. there is a lot unprecedented. at tack on mr. khan is unprecedented and i think the press are presenting this as a stunning event. i remember watching the press conference where trump encouraged russia to hack more democratic e-mails during a presidential campaign. my twitter feed, the jaws were dropping everywhere. and i think the coverage has been basically pretty good. and i think that is important going forward. it is important for the press to realize, this is not a normal campaign. this is not a prominent democrat versus a prominent republican who will have both sides type of coverage. he is increasingly just unhinged, calling the failed general -- making up -- making up stories about how the debate

schedule is formed attacking the khan family. this stuff is sort of amazing and i think the press after a long time is finally realizing, this is unprecedented and i think the coverage should reflect that. >> and amy, to come to you on this, the stuff about russia encouraging, russia, if you hear me, hack into hillary clinton e-mails and find some more stuff. >> he did not say that. he said find the e-mails. >> that is how they found them. by hacking. >> you don't know who found them. >> the russian -- no, the -- all right. the u.s. intelligence -- hold on, amy. the u.s. intelligence have said to a high degree of certainty that they do believe it is the russians. so the encouragement of russia, if you hear me, is how he started it, hacking is how they got the e-mails, are you bothered at all if you add up the confluence of events, that statement of encouraging russia to find the e-mails, which they did by hacking, his statements

saying they could keep crimea and backing away from our nato alliances, when you take that in totality, does it give you any pause at all about donald trump? >> joy, this is what i'll say. we could sit here all day and talk about the rhetoric that goes back and forth on the campaigns but at the end of the day the voters are going to decide. >> let me let you hear him and see if it -- >> okay. go ahead. >> let me let you hear him. we'll listen to him talking about crimea. >> it is russia. it is really bad for a different reason. because it shows how little respect they have for our country when they would hack into a major party and get everything. but it would be interesting to see -- i will tell you this, russia, if you are listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. >> amy, that has never happened. people who have spent lifetimes in the military and intelligence services, their jaws dropped.

whether they were republicans or democrats, for an american presidential candidate to say, russia, if you are listening, to hack my political opponent, hack into her e-mails. it is unprecedented. it doesn't bother you at all? >> the servers are no longer -- hooked up and working. if they are, they are with the fbi. and people know that they are not available to hack any more. it is like donald trump saying, oh, i hope putin goes and gets in a 1985 delori an and finds the 30,000 e-mails. >> it is not like that at all. >> i'll tell what you scares me. what scares me is the fact that the e-mails are out there probably and that we could have a president that could be blackmailed over them. that is what concerns me. >> nope, hold on. you can't justin vent things. >> i'm not inventing anything. >> you just invented it. the fbi has come out with a report on hillary clinton e-mails and what you just said is invented.

there are no 33,000 e-mails that will harm our national security. we won't relitigate that. >> let me talk. >> not if you are going to invent things. >> i'm not going to invent things. >> you can't -- no, amy. no, ma'am. you cannot invent things. ma'am, no ma'am. >> she said she did not turn over all of the e-mails. >> no, ma'am. you cannot invent things. you are putting out incredibly inflammatory information. >> you don't know where the e-mails are and neither do i so we can't speculate on it. >> but you just did. but you just did. i'm going to come to the panel. >> okay. >> you cannot do that. okay. i'm going to you karine because we need to move on to the next sound bite. hillary clinton talked about this tendency of donald trump to blame other people for issues that come up when he is criticized. take a listen. >> i think the kind of inflammatory answers that trump has provided, blame somebody, blame migrants, blame muslims,

blame women, blame somebody, is attractive in the first instance to people who are looking for answers. but what i'm counting on, what i believe, he has offered nothing to help people. >> so is this the way the democrats are going to essentially run against donald trump and attempting to say his attacks on muslims and migrants but will that work with a republican audience that simply, as we just heard from amy kremer, the real focus is how much they detest hillary clinton and think of her as this master criminal. and if the message is attacking, attacking women, does that message have enough resonance if you are a voter. >> and we've seen how he mismanaged the khan family and that has resonated on both sides and i think it will work and the campaign has to continue staying focused on that. for a second i want to talk

about the national security thing. because i want to make a point. this race is about national security. that is a big part. because we have someone who lacks the temperament but doesn't have the experience, right, to actually deal with national security. and here is the thing that we should be really worried and scared about. as early as this week, he -- he is probably going to get the national security briefings. and this is a guy who said, hey, you know what, putin, and russia, come on in, tip the scale on this american -- the american election. so that is the thing that we should be really concerned about. and if they keep -- if they lean on that even harder, the campaign, i believe there could be a true effect there. >> i think the whole national security is a key point. and look, i think in a way the clinton campaign just has to stay out of the way of donald trump. look at what he has done since wednesday. over and over, day after day, he is such a narcissist, he had to be out front during the democratic convention and he had

the press conference where he uncorked the wild convention. >> and hillary clinton hasn't had one in over 235 days. >> she just gave a sit down interview with -- >> that is not a press conference and that took 15 months and we know that is very controlled. i'm sure she knew what questions were asked. >> we are not -- >> she didn't. >> we are not going to malign -- amy, i think we have to be very careful because chris wallace has -- he has a long career and i don't think we should accuse him of providing the questions to hillary clinton. >> it took him 15 months to get that. >> i don't think we should accuse. i will end this on a note of agreement, most of the media would like to see hillary clinton give a press conference and we'll hope that she did do that. but we'll end on that note of agreement. and we are out of time. we'll be back. and thank you very much. >> and next up, roll call. don't go away. before it became a medicine,

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hillary clinton's place in history was one for the ages. here is a look at the most memorable moments. >> i'm proud to be joined here by emery janet, age 102. 34 votes for senator sanders. >> and 51 votes for the next president of the united states of america, hillary rodham clinton. >> i want to bring before this convention the names of our parents, eli sanders and dorothy blackburn sanders. they died young. it would be immensely proud of their son. >> i cast my vote for bernie sanders. >> in honor of dorothy and

hugh's daughter and my sweet friend, i know you are watching, this one's for you, hill, 98 votes. yes. >> on episode of the apprentice, we could say last week they conspired, but their ideas misfired. their bigotry is tired, their attacks are uninspired, so mike pence, and donald trump, you are officially fired. we are one louisiana. louisiana knows that love trumps hate. >> i was born in 1929, only nine years after women were granted the right to vote.

i never thought that i would live to see this day. >> i move that hillary clinton be selected as the nominee of the democratic party for president of the united states. >> and after the break, what is the future for former dnc chair and current congressman debbie wasserman schultz. we'll get exclusive look at how she's doing with her primary opponent. stay with us. and these are the lungs. (boy) sorry. (dad) don't worry about it. (vo) at our house, we need things that are built to last. that's why we got a subaru. (avo) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. but you may experience common discomforts. introducing trunatal from one a day. trunatal is a new line of products

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are those made with all-beef, karen? yeah, they're hebrew national. but unlike yours, they're also kosher. kosher? yeah, they're really choosy about what goes in.

so, only certain cuts of kosher beef meet their strict standards and then they pick the best from that. oh man! what'd we do? they're all ruined. help yourself! oh no, we couldn...okay thanks. when you hot dog's kosher, thats a hot dog you can trust. hebrew national. good morning, florida, it is so wonder toffle -- wonderful t here with my home state. all right, everybody,st settle down. >> wow. welcome back to "am joy." it was a punishing week for debbie wasserman schultz and now she's fighting to keep her other

job. the embattled democrat has returned home to defend her south florida congressional seat in a primary race against tim can ova, a first time candidate endorsed by bernie sanders. he has capitalized on the debbie wasserman schultz downfall, raising more than $100,000 in the days after the dnc e-mail scandal erupted. on the morn debbie wasserman schultz was booed off stage, he tweeted, it is time to end her political career for good. ouch. back with me, our panel. and i'm coming right to you ferdinand. but you have come bearing very interesting information about how debbie wasserman schultz is doing against tim canova. >> they have released the poll and this is the first time anyone has seen numbers in this race and post-dnc convention and the caveat it is an internal

campaign poll but it shows debbie wasserman schultz has reason to be concerned because he is within striking distance according to poll conducted by his campaign. >> and there is no public polling yet. these are a draft release that thanks to our being friends are the right people, namely ferdinand armandy, it is striking. and can ova is favorable, 32% and unfavorable, 8% and that is terms to grow. and debbie wasserman schultz is favorable. 52% and unfavorable 35% and 13% and the important bit is they are closer than you would think for someone that big of an incumbent. >> debbie wasserman schultz is a institution in that district and has been for years. and the fact that right now in a head to head he is not at the 50% november, it is the can ova campaign internal poll but you have to look at this as

something of great concern and i think you'll see her spending a lot of time in her district if she wants to hold on to her seat, she doesn't want to have what happened to the republican who lost in virginia -- eric canter, does he doesn't want to be cantered in her primary. >> and for debbie wasserman schultz primary to come three or four weeks after the democratic national convention and that booing scene is surely going to wind up in a tim can ova ad. in your view, how much trouble is she in. >> i don't think we know yet. i think a lot depends on how the two candidates perform over the next month. if debbie works very hard and raised a ton of money, she should be able to win and fend off the can ova challenge. but strange things are happening this year. this is an odd year. and certainly she's left an opening, if canova performs well, he'll make a run of this and then we'll see. if it is close to the end, anything could happen. >> and let's talk about the

money. she doesn't live in the most expensive media market. i think tampa is the most expensive. but it is not cheap, south florida. and so far debbie wasserman schultz through june has raise $3.1 million and tim can ova about $2.3 million and since the e-mail scandal erupts, since the e-mails from the dnc and for those who weren't following it, these are snark between sntaffes at the dnc and high-placed staffers throwing shade at bernie sanders quite frankly, that is reinflamed the sanders supporters saying the system was rigged. $2.5 million raised after that. could this money game actually make him a viable candidate? >> it is interesting. because he is raising small dollar donations he's receiving. he is not collecting pac money. he is very into the bernie sanders kind of campaign theme. and here is the thing. so right now, he has the momentum, right. and momentum could be everything in a campaign. which is really important. and it is against her and she could very much be running for

the -- her political career at this point. but look, she has represented that district for ten years. she's been elected official since 2000. she has the incumbent kind of advantage, if you will. and also the name i.d. so she's probably squeak it out but this is an unprecedented year and we'll see what happens. >> and the other issue is we have tim can ova tries to keep this alive and filing a complaint over the e-mails and egging this on. the fact that he has that bernie sanders support in that particular district, does that help him? >> that is a district that went for hillary clinton with over 77% of the vote in the march primary in florida. but having said that, it is a special election, it is august 30th, there is not a whole lot on the ballot. and remember, if the bernie sanders people feel like they got debbie wasserman schultz kicked out of the convention in the party process what better trophy for them to get her out of the congressional seat and i suspect bernie sanders may come down and campaign for canova and

that is an interesting development. >> and this is one of the problems that bernie sanders had in other races. it is a close primary and florida is not an open primary and many are independents so do you see evidence that sanders is attempting to register democrats and has that deadline passed for people to switch over. >> i don't think we've seen that. i think he's been focused on other things and frankly we had a -- other than what happened with debbie, the democrats had a terrific convention this week. and i think we should be very proud about the way the party came together and the positive message we put forward. but there is to question. look, this could turn into a race. he has enough money to make up ground on the name i.d. and he will be well-known by election day and i think it will come down to the execution of the two campaigns. he has got a shot but he has to performal a high level and debbie -- perform at a high level and debbie has to make mistakes to give him a chance and it is a race we are following over the next few months. >> and let's say she survived

and she has to go back to washington. >> this is the toughest weeks i've seen a politician happen. humiliated on the eve of ch what should have been her tremendous triumph and it went off without a hitch without her and that is why this race is tricky for her. and the other thing to consider, tim can ova has been trying to get debbie wasserman schultz to debate him and she brushed him off and saying he is not a real candidate but this poll results may force her to do so and i think that is something you could see her produce the negative and what you just heard simon rosenberg say. >> do you think they'll have a debate? >> i think they have to. given her issue with debates over the last year, if she doesn't, it becomes a bludgeon to use against her and it is smart for her but she has to make that decision. it will help him with name i.d. and much more beneficial for him but i think that given what has

happened with her this year, if she starts looking like she's continuing her anti--democratic tendencies against the democratic party, it will cause even more long-term damage for her in the party. >> and how ironic is it, karine, for someone among the most stall wart hillary clinton supporters out there since 2008 and to come in and have a successful convention and she gets some yesterd credit for that, running the process and then to be in this position three and a half weeks out from her primary. >> i haven't been somebody part of the 2016 election. this is her own doing. i am -- it is hard to be kind here. and i think i'll just leave it at that. [ laughter ] >> ouch! more booing, but coming from jean pierre. let's do a whip-around and get some predictions but does she survive? >> i think she will. just the name i.d. and incumbency, i think she will.

>> ferdinand. >> the history is on the side of the incumbents. but i think he will give her a heck of a challenge but i think she squeaks in. >> what about you, simon? >> i think the same thing. but she has to work. it is a strange year. strange things are happening. it is a competitive race. >> as the song said, work, work, work. and we'll see what happens. an debbie, we would love to come on the show and talk about it, so you are invited any time. and we'll be back. more politics coming up. and stay tubed. at the top of the next hour, alex witt will talk about the fight for the rust belt and whether donald trump to take the votes away from hillary clinton. but there is plenty more "am joy" after the break. don't go away. sal allergy sympt. houston: news alert... new from the makers of claritin, clarispray. ♪ welcome back. clarispray is a nasal allergy spray that contains the #1 prescribed, clinically proven ingredient.

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what will be the headlines this week. karine and simon are back. what is the big headline? >> re-establishes a meaningful and substantial lead in the race. >> you think hillary clinton will get a bounce. >> there is already evidence it is happening and i think she will be up three or four or five points by the end of the week and take control of the race again. >> and to what do you prescribe the bounce you are predicted. >> what happened in the republican -- she was up going into the two conventions by three or four points and trump got a bounce and think she will get an equal bounce to what trump got and put the race back

to where it was before the two conventions. the democrats had a very good convention. we were unified and we got high ratings on tv. we should expect an equal bounce to what trump had. >> all right. >> i think you're going to see donald trump give a major address where he's forced to distance himself from vladimir putin and what is going on in russia. if he doesn't do that they have to take the signs down. the trump pence ticket is the trump putin ticket. if that happens, this race ends in august. it doesn't go until november and you may have a revolt on all sides. there are investigative reporters around the united states and the world writing these stories right now if donald trump doesn't get ahead of this and walk back his comments in a real way, this is unprecedented in the history of american politics, joy. >> how long -- how long do you think before jon mccain feels compelled to step up. he, really the georgia issue was a big issue in 2008.

this is his baihis. even though he has a reelect come out against trump? >> there is a collection mounting. you saw mitt romney do it. i think george hw bush and maybe george w. bush will do that. mccain will feel like the odd man out. he of all knowing how national security works, knowing not just how provocative what they mean for the america russia relationship beginning with nato, shocking. >> absolutely. >> so i think everyone will be waiting for the results of the auto dialers to see if there was a bump and why and we'll be talking about that. here is the thing, the national polls don't matter. what we should be watching are state polls in key battle ground states. that's going to matter. the clinton campaign will be

paying attention to that and internal polling and pennsylvania, virginia, ocpost olympics and the day would be focussing on the debates, right? i said this earlier, i think there is going to be a play from donald trump to get the third party, the libertarian into the debates. >> and i agree. i have to say i agree i think the russia story is the big story. the story of the year and every reporter that is in the investigative world is looking into donald trump's business dealings and ties, whether or not he met putin. he's said different things if he's met vladimir putin and donald trump might have written a headline of the week in the interview on abc's this week this morning, this is what he said about whether or not he will release his tax returns. take a listen. >> watch mitt romney pofour yea ago until the election.

they made him, i think he lost because of a couple minor items in a tax return where he did nothing wrong. it is unfair. that is a very telling statement to me. donald trump said he refused to release his campaign indicated that he probably won't do it at all but for him to believe that's what sunk mitt romney, doesn't that say he does not plan to do it? >> the donald trump campaign platform can be brought down to two words, believe me. believe me. it's all good. believe me, the tax returns, my charty contributions are okay. believe me. i'm not in bed with vladimir putin in russia, do you. >> that's the question. he must believe as george will as said what's in the tax returns is more damming than the backlash from not releasing them. doesn't that just increase the

speculation, what's in them? >> most definitely. >> how can you say you're going to be able to run a trillion, billion, whatever, trillion budget of a government and not give your tax return? how are we supposed to believe you? that's the problem. he can probably release older taxes from other years. i think that's the problem. how can you balance that out? you know, how can you be a leader and be qualified to do that -- >> it's more than that, simon. george will's column said the question that raised in his mind is whether or not the tax returns is are they tied to russia. loans from russian banks, things that could be damming in the sense they increased speculation about the weird connection between him and russia. >> well, it's also speculated that the tax returns would show he's not nearly as rich as he claims he has. he said he's worth $8 billion and put that into documents and it could be, it's been

speculated he's worth 300 to $400 million. which means the preliminary nmi built on a lie. none of that is true. this is a really meaningful thing for him and goes to the core of the brand and the conjob if you want to call it that that he's been v pputting on the american people. >> i want to play a couple sound bytes from this morning. hillary clinton talking about being the first woman nominee. we haven't done a lot on this but let's listen to hillary clinton. >> how emotional was thursday night for you? >> it was way over the top emotional. my biggest concern going out there to make that speech thursday night was whether or not i could control my emotions. >> you say whether you could control your emotions. what was your concern? >> that i would start crying. [ laughter ] >> that laugh. this is going to be the other big thing you talked about

polling, whether or not hillary clinton moves the needle with women. talking about her emotions, does that help her? >> most definitely because she needs to connect and she's the only one to to that. even though she has the big tent as we love to say, she's the one that needs to connect with the people. look, we have to give the democrats credit here. for the second time, they made history in 2008, clearly, barack obama and this time with hillary clinton. so i think it was a really great week. >> and i have to do one quick one. we're pretty much out of time. donald trump went after the prosecutor in maryland this week. another headline will be what happens with the lawsuits in maryla maryland. not a story on the presidential radar but for a candidate to go after a state attorney is a pretty big deal. that would be my other headline i would have put in. we're out of time. thank you-all very much. that is our show for today. and i'll see you back here next saturday at 10:00 a.m. eastern.

believe me. up next, alex whit on whether donald trump can siphon votes. stay with msnbc, the place for politics.

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it's the same for credit. en if you're not good at it now, that's okay. because credit isn't just a score. it's a skill. experian. be better at credit. hello, everyone. i'm alex witt in new york. it is high noon here in the east and this is what is happening. >> i think i made a lot of sacrifices. i created tens of thousands of jobs. >> donald trump's response to the muslim parents that spoke at the dnc convention. the remarks are drawing criticism this morning. new polls, a look at whether the democratic national convention is providing a bump for nominee hillary clinton and new word today on the hot air balloon tragedy. what once witness saw what it ha