children. matt borges said he was a good guy and one of the good guys was gone way too soon. "morning show starts right now. >> i like to play golf. i'm a good golfer, believe people are shocked. people are shocked. let me -- [ applause ] >> i should play obama for the presidency. [ applause ] i'll do it. [ applause ] then i'd be assured of winning, okay? >> assured. good morning, everybody. how are you doing? it's thursday, august 4th. how do i sound? >> much better today. >> okay. hopefully it lasts. i've got lemon water here. joe has the morning off. with us on set we have veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnacle. you might be talking a lot this morning, mike. managing editor of bloomberg politics and co-host of "withual due respect" that airs at 6:00 p.m. on msnbc. mark halpern, how are you?

>> good morning. >> i loved watching your show yesterday. was so good. i lost it a few time because they kept putting hillary up in speeches. i like watching your show. >> speak out. let everyone know. >> i did. i sent in a letter. commentator for the new york and in washington, political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee. how's that party doing, michael steele? >> having fun, baby. having fun. >> no, you are not. you are not having any fun. >> hanging my head. >> it is a something show. in washington, anchor for bbc "world news america," katty kay joins us. how are you? >> good morning. >> have you in of you all seriously, have you participated in an intervention? i'm serious. >> yes. >> i have. >> i haven't -- >> a formal one? with someone you love and someone who's in deep trouble? >> the success rate isn't very high. >> it goes back -- >> for an international party, no. >> no, a person. just a person. one person. have you ever had an intervention where you've had to

get around with everybody that loves the person and try and tell them what hathey're doing that is killing them? >> by the time you get to the intervention, it's usually too late. >> the response is usually what? >> denial. >> rejection. denial. >> we have a problem -- i'm fine. >> anger. >> thought you were my friends. >> blame shifting. >> i'll never speak to you again. it's a relief. >> those went well for you, didn't they? >> a friend of mine had a serious drug problem, and we had an intervention -- blamed cnn. >> all right. so joking. after a spate of national polls showing trump slipping against hillary clinton including some new ones that we'll get to in a moment, fresh off the presses, after trump's ongoing feud with gold-star parents during the first days of the general election, after trump's refusal to back party icons like senator john mccain

and speaker paul ryan, the talk yesterday was whether the candidate himself was in need of an intervention. and whether top allies would try to compel the nominee to make a dramatic reset of his campaign. sources tell nbc news that trump will hear from rnc chairman reince priebus, former new york city mayor rudy giuliani, and ex-house speaker newt gingrich who spoke out yesterday. >> i think some of what trump has done is very self-destructive. i don't know if it's a fixable problem. i think it's a very big moment for trump. he's got to find a way to slow do down, really learn new lessons. it's like "the apprentice," except he's the boss. >> those at the top deny that any campaign intervention is in the works and that the candidate is in control. >> focused. >> the campaign is moving forward in a positive way. the only need for an intervention is maybe with media

types who keep saying things that aren't true. >> i talked to donald trump just about every day, and -- look, you're always going to hear inside baseball discussions. i've never heard anything about a meeting of that kind. this campaign is totally focused, totally focused on strengthening america. >> this as an unidentified republican operative tells "u.s. news and world report" that trump has increasingly been back in regular contact with his former campaign manager, cory lewandowski. trump was alarmed by a call last week from a senior adviser who lamented the campaign's lack of state-by-state organization and warned the nominee that "you are not going to win." the call was from jared kushner, the influential son-in-law held in high regard by trump. trump himself suggested that he may have been thrown off message by his opponent.

>> many people in the gop who support your candidacy are advising to focus your attacks on hillary clinton. they say you're being baited into battle that's distract you from the message. what are your thoughts? >> i think that's probably right. more focused on hillary clinton. she's a disaster. we'll focus more on hillary clinton, absolutely. >> it's an interesting storyline, willie. my interest at this point is not -- i feel like we've watched this candidate again and again and again blow past stop signs and do things that are -- you can't take them back. you can't refocus. an intervention won't help. we've signed of seen who he is through -- we've kind of seen who he is through this experience and how he would lead. i think the bigger question is about republican leaders and if they are going to take a stand now and preserve what's left of their party or go down in flames, losing every bit of their principle, promises to

their people and themselves, and moral compass. >> there weather -- whether it's an intervention in that respect or friends calling, it's hard for me to see how a visit from rudy giuliani and chris christie and reince priebus, going up to the top of trump tower and telling him what's what is going to change the way donald trump does business. >> unless they threaten to leave. >> they've been waiting for the pivot. he's not going to change. it's who he is. the idea that they'll suddenly built this state-by-state organization with three months until election day, that's something you build over a generation as a party, over years and years and years. >> they're making money. >> they raised money, that's true. it's late to start building a conventional, formal presidential campaign. >> and let's get real, mark. they're not going to take the nomination away from him. >> no, but he's also not out of it. as bad as the weeks he's had, the people behind him who are rational and tactical would like to see him get back on track the next couple of weeks. if he has a strong first debate,

he can be back in this race. the electoral college math is so daunting. reince priebus said for years for us to be the democrats we need to run a perfect race. as you look at states like colorado where hillary -- >> we're not doing that? >> colorado where hillary clinton was yesterday where republicans have written it off, he's not leaving himself much of a margin of error or any margin of error to win 270 electoral votes. >> michael steele, if you were invited to the alleged intervention, what would you tell donald trump three months out? >> i'd start with the one question, do you want to be president. if the answer is yes, then you damn sure need to start acting like it. right now to the points made around the table, you are losing this election. listen to your brother-in-law. he's smart. you're losing this election, you're giving it away. you're leaving good information, good opportunities on the table that you can take to hillary clinton, that you can take to the democrats, that's what this

election is about. it's not about you. it's not about showboating. it's not about a primary that you beat 15 other guys at. this is about how you're going to run the country, from what you will do in the middle east to how you're going to grow jobs. that's the focus you need to have. if you want this job, you'd better tell the american people you want it and start acting like it. otherwise, this is over. and as a party, we're going to focus on preserving the senate and holding the house and making the other gains we need to make and rebuild after you're done with this. >> look, we say what we see. i saw that he would win the nomination. you can see a lot of things here. and we get used to it because we watch it close up. mark halpern, he doesn't want to win, does he? i mean, is this a candidate who wants to win? is this a candidate who flips around the purple heart and, you know -- disgraces himself in front of gold-star families?

especially those who really have given the ultimate and went on stage and talked about him? he took the bait like a child and started -- let that news cycle go for six days. is this a candidate who want to win, or is getting bored and childlike, like i don't like this, why don't i screw it up and get out of here? that's what i see. >> there's no rational way to explain how he's behaved the past two weeksf he wants to win. >> it doesn't look like there's someone who wants to win. >> no rational way. he has an obligation to the party even though he's an outsider. he ran for the nomination. he's got an obligation to not hurt the other people. the problem for the party and people blindly saying they should denounce him, there's no textbook that tells you here's how you win a race in a general election is 70% of the base is mad at you. 70% of the base does not want them to renounce trump, the nominee. >> isn't this a moment where it can't be about re-election, it

can't be -- maybe it's about leading? maybe in the end you'll be right? maybe that's a risk you should take because what you're doing is wrong? >> that's a dilemma for some. for most they feel the obligation, like paul ryan feels his obligation is to not let hillary clinton have a house majority. while it seems tempting to some to say renounce trump, most of the house members are in districts that are -- are heavily republican. if they renounce trump, they run the risk of losing the house. >> they also run the risk of transforming the country in a negative way. >> with this in the background, trump was greeted by huge crowds in florida arenas. 8,000 people in daytona beach. another 10,000 last night in jacksonville. trump dismissed any talk of disunity within his campaign organization and spoke optimistically about his chances while reminding republicans what makes him so unique. >> i just want to tell you the campaign is doing really well. it's never been so well united. we started on june 16th. i would say right now it's the

best in terms of being united that it's been since we began. you know, the route to the white house for the republicans is much more difficult. you know that. you look at the maps. you look at the maps. and yet for me, not being your typical republican i guess, we have a lot of states in play right now that will -- i think we're going to do great in michigan. most republicans would never even stop for dinner in some of those states. you know what, sort of like i feel the same about isis, i don't really want to tell you what the states are because they've got a lot of money. what they'll do is immediately start advertising, trump's a horrible human being. they'll show the golf shot. at least they gave me -- my swing looked good. [ laughter ] no, it's true. if i were them, i would have picked a bad-looking swing where i'm falling over. i have them, too. i would have picked a bad-looking swing. at least my swing looked good. thank you, hillary. >> it was a good swing. a new poll out of pennsylvania spells some trouble for donald

trump's result belt strategy. it shows hillary clinton leading by 11 points among likely voters, 49-38. this after a suffolk poll last week that shows clinton beating trump by nine points in pennsylvania. whose 20 electoral college votes are essential to his victory. a fox news national poll shows hillary clinton with a ten-point lead, 49-39. the latest in a string of descending numbers for trump. clinton has obama-like margins with women voters, 57-34. african-american voters, 87-4. his panic voters where hillary clinton is up 68-20. and an 18-point lead with voters under 30 where hillary clinton leads 29-31. trump's dominant groups include men. his lead, five points, 45-40. a ten-point advantage against white voters, while posting hefty leads with white evangelical voters and white voters without a college degree. a new national poll taken over the month of july shows secretary clinton with a

48-point lead among hispanics. trump is at just 18% in the florida atlantic university poll. that's a drop-off actually from mitt romney's 27% in 2012 and john mccain's 31% among hispanics in 2008, and way down from the last successful republican, george w. bush, who narrowed the gap among hispanics to nine points in 2004. yes? >> this is where i think one of the most dangerous things is happening for the republican party now. the republican party now in early august sounds like four years ago in late october. forget all the polls. the polls are crooked, fixed. we're drawing 10,000, big crowds. we must be winning. if that is the attitude that they have, the complacency involved there, they'll lose in a landslide. >> what jumps out as at you looking at the numbers, nick? >> it's pennsylvania. if he can't overperform in pennsylvania, he's not going to win the presidency. they have this idea of the special three-state strategy of sweeping ohio, florida, and pennsylvania. that's his path to victory.

pennsylvania is one of those states, a result belt-type state, where his -- rust belt-type state, where his voters -- he says i can overperform. he's underperforming. if he can't win, he can't be president. >> he had a sanders-like performance in terms of money raising the past couple of months. raised a lot of money. >> we said around this table if he could get his act together on the small donor part of it, he could clean up. that the appetite was out there for those donors. it sure looks as though him in partnership with the rnc provide the technical background for him to do it. he's blown up. there was a big suppressed appetite for that kind of giving among his supporters. it's really there. he might be a sanders-type candidate in fund-raising on the right. a big deal. >> michael steele, he's raised all this money in this last quarter. what's he going to do with it? i mean, he has no ground game. at least that we've been told about. he has no like sophisticated get

out the vote operations that are necessary. what's he going to do with the money? >> i think a lot of that is going to go to some of the down ballot races. certainly some of the senate races that are on the radar screen. we'll see some of that money. the rnc does have its organizations on the ground. they've always had those in place. they've been building that for the past 18 months or so. so those dollars will go there. it's not like donald trump won't have any ground game. you do expect the presidential campaign to have an infrastructure for that. but the party does, as well. and that's been in place for quite some time. a lot of those dollars will go there. i do have a question for mark, and that is looking at the poll numbers, mark, would you say that if we're ten days from now look at a double-digit drop -- lead for hillary clinton in places like colorado, pennsylvania, florida, that this -- this is the glide path that you can't overcome eventually?

that's going to set in place the outcome of this election, it's going to be hard to overcome that? >> look, the first debate can make up five points on his own if he beats her badly. i'm not saying he will. if he does, his problem -- i asked joel bennett, hillary clinton strategist and pollster in philadelphia, what's trump's floor? what's the lowest -- he said about 40. that's where trump is in a lot of these polls. in some polls he's not even at 40. you get to labor day, and if it's not a competitive race, you're already seeing talk from republicans, let's stop trying to help trump. let's try to keep the house and senate. he doesn't have much time will to try to figure out how to get above 50 or keep her at -- above 40 or keep her at 50, or the psychology change for republicans. he has to get to the mid 40s in a lot of places and quick nationally. >> katty kay, his loose talk about nukes and everything else pertaining to foreign policy, it can't look good from around the world. you've got to get so many questions in your travels.

>> yeah. we're going from the kind of wow, there is exciting in america and these crazy americans, what are they up to, to, my god, this could be a terrifying stage of reaction from the rest of the world. i don't think it's any surprise that the people you're starting to see come out and say that they won't vote for donald trump tend to be on the national security wing of the republican party. kinsing her is one. tim solve abroad in iraq --kinzinger is one. tim self abroad in iraq. i interviewed president clinton's defense secretary. he said he wouldn't be able to vote for donald trump in november either. i wouldn't be surprised if after labor day you had a slew of senior foreign policy types coming out on the republican side saying we just can't vote for donald trump. the next step would be if they said they were meg whitman style going to support hillary clinton. i don't know if they'll go that far. that's where you'll get the

first big fracture in the party. >> i think the republican leaders need to get their heads out of something. here's what -- >> the sand? >> the sand. paul ryan's long, hot summer, this is "the new york times," "there's no reason to believe that trump's conduct will do anything but get crazier as the election approaches, especially if it appears that he's guaranteed to lose. in which case paul ryan would have endured his long humiliation for exactly nothing." mark halperin, i'm going to you ask about this. "more than most politicians, ryan has always laid claim to a mix of moral and substantive authority. and both that authority and that brand are being laid waste in this campaign. every time ryan talks about patriotism, every time he talks about conservative ideals, the orange face of trump seems to rise moonlike behind his shoulder. a reminder that this patriot and

idealist is supporting for the highest office in the republic, the most powerful position in the world a man that he obviously knows to be dangerous, unstable, unprincipled, and unfit." a better way of putting it than i did. mark and then michael steele, if trump loses, where does it leave people like paul ryan who have gone against their principles? who are not telling the truth by endorsing this man? anybody want to challenge me on that? maybe you're too afraid to say it, but you're not telling the truth. you're going against your principles. you don't believe in him. you don't know if he'll stand by his word. you don't even know if he's a republican, okay. and you're endorsing him. that is what you're doing. i guess you're trying to, according to mark halperin, keep your base. what if he loses? >> everything you say is true. i think paul ryan would privately agree with everything you say. there are two factors -- one is he won the nomination through the votes of the voters -- >> i hate politics. if there's countervailing factors to what i said that you

believe to be true, hate politics. >> he thinks if hillary clinton has control of the house and senate and she's president she will push through an agenda that he thinks will be bad for the future of the country. and again, go to look at the electorates for his members, look at the general election prospects. forget that some still have primaries. if they break from the top of the ticket, they will alienate their base, and they could lose a lot of seats. >> i don't believe it. michael? >> so this -- i think mark has it exactly right. i get what you're saying and understand the passion behind it. the politics of this are -- are heavy. and he is -- he is in many respects the head of the party. he's the speaker of the house. he's got the majority. and he's -- he's trying to balance two things. one is, as mark pointed out, those 13.5 million-plus votes that donald trump got. that has to be respected regardless of what you think about the process. he was duly nominate. he went through the process.

republicans across the country who are whining and complaining about that, the only question i ask is, well, why didn't you solidify behind a candidate if this candidate was so bad? you didn't, and this is the result. >> nick -- hold on. go ahead, michael. >> the other things is the house. he's got to manage a freedom caucus. he's got to manage other interests to make sure they hold on because at the end of the day, that's the stopgap against a hillary clinton agenda. at the end of the day, if everything else goes awry, that house has to stay there in place to make sure there is a check to a lot of the stuff that hillary clinton's going to want to push through. >> and on the other side of the agenda, if trump does win, if he pulls it out, who's in a position to control and dominate policymaking in washington? is it going to be the trump campaign which has a bare bones policy shop and no movement of wonks waiting in the wings? is it going to be the regulars, paul ryan on the hill, and it's

going to be -- i think they see an upside of a chance that they get to run the actual framework of an administration if trump wins. >> i guess i'm just incredibly naive. i figure if you're driving a car you like and you love that car and driving it, or if you think you kind of like it or maybe you have to drive the car. then the car like burst into flames and you're driving a car in flames, my choice is to get out of that car. it seems pretty simple. i guess people like driving cars that are on fire. that could drive our country into the ground. >> we'll see if paul ryan gets a new car -- >> real quick, you think that the republican party is just going to cede this election to hillary clinton? they'll say because of everything you described, the car's on fire, we don't like donald trump, here's god knows what, we're going to lay down and not -- >> michael, they've missed every opportunity to close in on this guy. they've missed every opportunity out of fear and being with usees. they've misseder -- wussies.

they've missed every opportunity. if there's any construct left, they have missed it on the side of principle. you're driving a car on fire, guys. that's all i have to say. who disagrees that this car is on fire? that this guy is completely -- >> the car's on fire, but you drive it until you can't drive it anymore. you can't just get out and abandon the car. >> wow. okay. >> they're bringing calming and soothing presences like newt gingrich and rudy giuliani to douse the flames. by the way -- think about this for a second, newt gingrich who's close to donald trump, was on the very, very shortest of short list to be vice president, yesterday said that donald trump is proving himself to be more unacceptable than hillary clinton. that's someone from his inner circle saying that. if that's not a red flag, i don't know what is. >> he tried to tweet and take it back later in the day. he was clear in the comment. >> i've got to go to break. car's on fire. >> john candy and steve martin

-- i know this was bad. >> we're laughing, but it is frightening. ahead on "morning joe," former presidential candidate, trump supporter dr. ben carson, joins us live. we'll see if he'll take part in the reported intervention. later, timing is everything. did the justice department object to sending hundreds of millions of dollars to iran at the same time four americans prisoners were being released? a good one. we have new reporting this morning from the "wall street journal." we'll be right back. excuse my voice.

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hillary clinton has begun planning her transition to the white house. according to "the new york times," she's tapped campaign chairman john podesta and minion moore to lead the effort. in her latest attack against trump, clinton is targeting the republican nominee for outsourcing production on some of his signature products.

on the campaign trail yesterday and new political ad, she calls out trump for making many of his products overseas. >> when donald trump is asked about where he makes things, he makes them anywhere else but america. you know, his ties, his suits, his shirts, his furniture, his barware, made all over the world. bangladesh, turkey, slovenia, mexico. and when asked about that, he said, well, we don't make that stuff in america. well, i'm here to tell you, donald, you're wrong. [ applause ] >> a line of clothing, where were these made? >> these were made -- i don't know where they were made. they were made someplace. it's great. ties, shirts, cufflinks, everything sold at macy's, they're doing great. >> where are the shirts made? bangladesh. >> good -- good for people in bangladesh. they have to work, too. >> these are beautiful ties. made in where, china?

ties many in china. [ laughter ] >> that's an ad from hillary clinton's campaign. by the way, you've got to miss dave with stuff like that. >> come back, please. >> we love colbert but miss dave. >> yeah. >> nick, this has been out there for several months. we've heard criticisms of trump talking about jobs, keeping them, bringing back to america and making products overseas. hillary clinton introducing this to a larger general election audience. >> yes. so i think these attacks did not work very well against trump in the primary. >> right. >> i think what we've learned is that there's a hard core of trump voters who believe him over anybody and everything else, and nothing can move them. a general election is very different. i'm sure that hillary clinton's polling has told her this resonates with a bigger audience who she wants to reach in a general election. going hard at it with the ad, and her stump speeches, as well. >> it goes, katty, to his business acumen, his hypocrisy is what the clinton campaign would say, that the thrust of his campaign is nationalism,

making america great, bringing the jobs back. yet, he doesn't practice it himself. >> yeah. and the clinton campaign say they're seeing numbers that show that as people move from i just want to protest-type attitude to right now i have to make a real decision-type attitude, then that's when these kind of ads and these -- this kind of information can influence them to move toward a more what the clinton campaign hopes is a more reasonable, rational pro-clinton-type decision. they say people are shifting that. it seems amazing to me that after a year anyone is left to make up their minds. you'd of thought with so much information and so much exposure everybody must have made up their mind. if people went into this thinking i'm going to protest, i'm so angry, any change is better than nothing, and then the drip, drip, of actually is this person electable, do i want this person running the country, is he reasonable, is he telling the truth, maybe that's when

this ad can have some impact. >> you know, we showed that fox news poll that has hillary clinton with a ten-point national lead, mark. i'm looking through the cross tabs. she's still at 36% honest and trustworthy. remarkable for somebody with a ten-point lead. >> she said on election day she can win with numbers like that because of the nature of the choice. you know, it's going to be interesting to see how donald trump responds to attack a fox poll. harder to attack a cnn or nbc poll because of his relationship with fox. a new michigan poll shows her with a big lead. you know, what nick said, that issue of outsourcing is going to be an issue they'll pound in michigan if the race ends up being close. trump's bragging about michigan being a big state for him. and numbers aren't there now. mike dukakis was up 17 points. trump can come back, but not until he changes his performance. >> i know so many republicans, hard-core republicans, who are voting for clinton. just can't do.

it i don't understand the -- aren't leaders supposed to lead even when it's hard? >> well, you get the skitzoid nature of the poll. you reference the trustworthy number, yet qualified to be president. hillary clinton, 65%, donald trump, 43%. his temperament to effectively serve as president. hillary clinton, 64%. donald trump, 37%. >> yeah. >> i mean, people are all over the lot on this. >> nick? >> it was telling that i thought he was consulting against with cory lewandowski, famously the adviser with the -- donald should be donald strategy. it seems that he's going back to his comforted zone and what got -- comfort zone and what got him here is i'll pick a fight with anybody, i don't have to be an expert, i tell the truth. that's his personality in this campaign. it's hard for him to get away from it apparently. >> no regrets or apologies. >> no regrets, no apologies. coming up, a new first. a u.s. law enforcement officer

in washington, d.c., arrested for ties to the islamic state. nbc news justice correspondent pete williams will have the details for us. in london this morning, unease after a man stabbed six people. speculation about the motives. with my moderate to severe crohn's disease,... ...i was always searching for ways to manage my symptoms. i thought i had it covered. then i realized managing was all i was doing. when i finally told my doctor, he said humira was for people like me who have tried other medications,... but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease. in clinical studies, the majority of patients on humira saw significant symptom relief... ...and many achieved remission. humira can lower your ability to fight infections... ...including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers,... including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions,... ...and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common,

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welcome back to "morning joe." one woman is dead, another five people injured after a man went on a stabbing spree in london.

reports of a man slashing at people emerged just after 10:00 p.m. local time last night in russell square. police have arrested a 19-year-old man. a motive still unclear. >> early indications suggest that mental health is a significant factor in this case, and that is one major line of inquiry. terrorism as a motivation remains but one line of inquiry for us to explore. >> the city is upping its police presence this morning as the day gets underway there. another american has been charged with trying to help isis. latest arrest capturing even more attention because the suspect is a transit officer in our nation's capital city. as nbc's justice correspondent pete williams reports, the accused is the first u.s. law enforcement officer to face such charges. >> reporter: police and federal agents searched the suburban washington home of nicholas young, a 13-year veteran of the d.c. area transit police, accused of helping a man he thought went overseas to join

isis but who was actually working undercover for the fbi. investigators say the fbi's been watching young and his house in fairfax, virginia, for nearly six years since a friend was arrested for trying to join a terror group in somalia and another friend was arrested for plotting to set off a bomb at the u.s. capitol. neighbors say they kept their distance. >> we knew something was weird about him. we just never expected it to be something like this. >> reporter: court documents say young was interviewed by the fbi five times over the years, telling them he collected nazi memorabilia, had a german eagle tattooed on his neck, and twice went to libya to join rebels fighting the gadhafi regime. investigators say he met 20 times with an fbi posing as an isis convert and bought $245 worth of gift cards the man requested to buy apps that scramble messages, making them possible to intercept. >> you have to look at all potential threats seriously and try disrupt those that appear to be developing in dangerous ways. >> reporter: no comment from

young who appeared briefly in court or his lawyer. the fbi says he told friends he was constantly on guard fearing he was under surveillance. apparently unaware that he really was. >> thank you. coming up next, the $400 million question -- what was the money flown to iran for? we'll speak with a "wall street journal" reporter who broke a story the obama administration is denying fiercely. back in a moment.

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good luck! so, it turns out buzzed driving and drunk driving, they're the same thing and it costs around $10,000. so not worth it. the obama administration is shooting down a report that some officials warned against a secret $400 million shipment to iran. the just department is refuting the "wall street journal's" latest piece. the paper reported that senior official objected to sending the money at the same time iran was releasing four american prisoners in january, but that their concerns were overruled by the state department.

the doj tells nbc's justice correspondent pete williams that it "fully support the ultimate outcome of the administration's resolution of several issues with iran. the payment was returning iranian cash, part of the settlement of a decades' long dispute over a failed arms deal." the state department also said "this was fully an interagency decision, and any claim that the state department had the four simply overrule is false." here's how josh earnest reacted yesterday. >> let me be clear, the united states does not pay ran volumes. the only person making -- ransoms. the only person making the accusation, at least in the "wall street journal" article, is an iranian official. >> that's absolutely not true -- >> they are now. it sounds to me like they are one again in a position where they are making the same argument as hard-liners in iran in an effort to undermine the iran nuclear agreement. >> last night in an interview

wur w o-- interview with our affiliate, kusa, hillary clinton shot down claims of a swap. >> so far as i know it had nothing to do with any hostage swap or any other tit for tat. it was something that was intended to, as i am told, pay back iran for contracts that were canceled when the shah fell. i think we know that the agreement has put a lid on iran's nuclear weapons program. i consider that to be a very positive step. we also know that our businesses want to now do business with iran. we're taking that very carefully. and we also know that there are outstanding legal challenges by the iranian government against the united states government and other u.s. specials. >> and on the trail in florida, donald trump claimed to have seen video from the iranian government of the money being delivered. >> you just wonder who's making

decisions like this where you take $400 million, they put it in small containers and probably pretty large containers actually, and bring it over to iran. and you say, who's making these decisions, whose decision is that? that's all emanating from one of the worst deals ever made in this country, the deal we made with iran, and that probably was hostage money, to get hostages out for $400 million because it was exact timing. our leaders are incompetent. over there where that plane landed, top secret, they don't have a lot of paparazzi. you know, the paparazzi doesn't do so well over there, right? [ laughter ] they have a perfect tape done by obviously a government camera. and the tape is of the people

taking the money off the plane, right? that means that in order to embarrass us further, iran sent us the tapes, right? it's a military tape. >> a trump spokesperson later clarified to the "washington post" that he had seen the footage earlier on television, which he believed was the money transfer. that video which you see here was actually of three of four american hostages being released from iran, arriving in geneva, switzerland. >> you've got to be kidding me. >> in january. >> what's wrong with him? what's wrong with him? joining us from washington, foreign affairs correspondent at the "wall street journal," jay solomon. he co-wrote the initial report for the paper. he's also the author of the forthcoming book "the irans: spy games, secret battles, and deals that reshaped the middle east." there's so much to sift through in this story. the followup about the doj's doubts on the front page of the "wall street journal." in your original piece, you've read into this, investigated

this as much as anybody. from where you're sitting, was there a ransom payment for the release of american hostages? >> the key to the story from the very beginning has been the mechanics of this transaction and the timing of it. the white house yesterday was say, well, there was nothing new. when the initial announcement was made that there was a settlement in january 17th, it was kind of a vague statement about we've reached a settlement for $1.7 billion, but you know, most reporters didn't really understand the mechanics of this court and the hague and when they'd get the money. it was going into some escrow account. would iranians be able to get it at some future date. none of that was clear. it also raised the questions immediately, was there some quid pro quo when you simultaneously announce the hostage release and the settlement. and after a lot of snooping over the last few months, we found out, yeah, cash was flown directly to tehran in euros,

swiss francs, and other currencies virtually simultaneously. the question the white house still won't answer was, what was the timing. were the americans allowed to leave before that cash arrived or not? and that is the crux of it. if it is the case and there's -- there's evidence to back that that these americans might not have been able to leave until the cash arrived. >> jay, it was the view of iran that it was a ransom payment. if you listened to some of the senior iranian defense officials being quoted in the press, they explicitly said it was cash for the release of these americans. >> yeah. the revolutionary guard general who very quickly came out and said this money was in return for the american spies, as he called them, the four and then eventually five americans who returned at the date. and you've got to remember, too, this fits into a longer cycle of how the iranians have operated with us going back to the 1979 revolution. the shore so interesting because

you -- the horace so something because you had the hostage crisis and iran contra making a cash weapons deal to get americans back from -- after being kidnapped in lebanon. you had under the obama administration during the first term the three hikers kidnapped on the iranian-iraq border. there was cash exchanged at that time to get them back. it's not like this is just an isolated case. there's a cycle here. and since the cash payment was made in january, two more iranian americans have been arrested. a third was already being held, and three european/canadian dual nationals are also -- i think they're even in prison. there's a cycle here that doesn't back up the white house line that this was just kind of some isolated financial transaction. >> katty kay? >> jay, put this in the context of the presidential campaign. we've already hillary clinton and donald trump weigh in on this in rather different ways.

is this -- does iran generally, does this incidence do you think have an impact on the campaign? >> trump has tried to tie it directly to hillary clinton which seems a bit of a stretch because she had been gone for three years by the time this transaction was made. clinton is on a sort of difficult balancing line on the iran deal because she did actually initiate in some ways the actual negotiations even though i don't know how supporters of the exact terms. but the iran issue is the one issue they're trying to tag clinton with, when it was the nuclear agreement or now this prisoner exchange. the fact that she had been gone basically for three years makes it did. iran has played a huge role in elections. in u.s. elections going back to 1980 when the hostages were released and some people saying the reagan administration made a secret pact with the iranians. so the diplomats didn't get

released until after the election. even the 2012 election year, there were stories percolate being secret talks between the americans and iranians which turned out to be true. so there's a lot of history of iran kind of playing in u.s. politics. >> and a lot of new information in your piece and a new one on the front page of the "wall street journal." jay solomon, thank you very much. "the iran wars," new book in stores next month. thanks. coming up, even more new polling out this morning shows states slipping away from donald trump after the convention. we'll talk about whether or not he could take republican senate candidates with him in places like new hampshire. >> why are they voting for him? >> back after this.

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speaker riyan has taken evey opportunity to undermine our party's candidate. that's despicable. paul ryan is not to be trusted. i think it's terrible that paul ryan does not value the party. he is in it for paul ryan. >> that is paul ryan's primary opponent, as mr. ryan's long, hot summers continues. donald trump will not endorse ryan. now his primary challenger is starting to apply some pressure. the "washington post's" robert costa joins us from our kenosha bureau. >> a good bureau. >> we'll be right back.

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be the you who talks to your dermatologist about stelara®. many people in the gop who support your candidacy are advising you to focus your attacks on hillary clinton. they say you are being baited into battles that distract you from the message. what are your thoughts on that? >> i think that's probably right. more focus on hillary clinton. she's a disaster. we're going to focus more on hillary clinton, absolutely. >> okay. welcome back to "morning joe." i'm your creator this morning in the japanese department store -- is that what you said? [ speaking japanese ] >> thursday, august 4th. joe has the morning off, and

dough is my voice. with us -- and so does my voice. with us, veteran columnist and tributor mike barnacle. managing editor of bloomberg politics, mark hallperin. how do you say hello in japanese? [ speaking japanese ] >> casey hunt, "new york times" reporter jeremy peters, former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele, and washington anchor for bbc, katty kay, welcome to the table. casey, if you're in a great car, it's working okay. people are excited. it's new, it's different. it doesn't do what other cars do. then it bursts into flames, okay, but it's still going down the highway. do you put the brakes on and get out of the car, or do you keep driving? >> is there a river nearby? >> there might be. >> i think might try to drive into the window. put down the window first. >> is that the van down by the

river? >> she made the car into chitty chitty bang bang. >> she made it into the van down by the river on "saturday night live." that is not good. >> you want to know what this looks like? >> what does this look like? >> your reference? take a peek. >> let's look. >> wow! great. great. [ siren ] cops, watch it! how fast are you going? >> i can't tell. the speedometer's not working. >> pell over. >> what the hell are you driving? >> we had a small fire last night, but we caught it in the nick of time. >> do you feel that this vehicle is safe for highway travel? >> yes, i do. i really do. i believe that. i know it's not everett look at, but it will -- not pretty to look at, but it will take you where you want to go. >> you have no outside mirror. >> we lost that. >> no functioning gauges. >> not a one. however, the radio still works. >> that's your party. that's your car. that's your candidate. we have new poll numbers out that might also help with this

intervention that needs to be had with the candidate. an intervention that says, please drop out of the race. let somebody else step forward. willie? >> he's going to pull the car into the shop -- >> no, the van down by the river into the shop. >> newt gingrich and chris christie will come in and fix it. >> really? >> get him back on the road. watch. >> calming. >> exactly. >> really? that mental image is incredible, by the way. >> donald trump has talked a lot about changing the electoral map. let's look at some of the polls out just this morning. "the detroit news" wdiv poll shows him trailing hillary clinton in michigan by nine points, 41-32 there. let's stwoiwing to new hampshir new poll by wbur shows hillary clinton up 15 points in a four-way race. secretary clinton at 47, trump at 32, gary johnson pulling 8 points. that poll had them basically tied in may. in pennsylvania, the franklin and marshall college poll shows hillary clinton up 11 points with likely voters. that's 49-38. meanwhile, fox news national poll shows clinton with a

ten-point lead over all, 49-39. mark, you brought some of these polls to our attention this morning. donald trump knows the electoral map is stacked against him in many ways and he's got to pick off states. he's talked about michigan, new hampshire. these numbers aren't great for him. >> he'd have -- he wouldn't have to win either michigan or new hampshire to get to 270. but without both of them, the path is tough. obviously pennsylvania, we talked about, is essential to his calculation. you know, she's not 50 in every one of these polls or any of them, but she's close. but to have one-third of the vote or less than 40%, it just -- it's not plausible right now for him to argue that he can win. again, i'll say and people on twitter don't like this, people have overcome much bigger leads. she's still a flawed candidate. he's done a horrible job. they had a great convention. he's got an opportunity here. people are right first and foremost to be skeptical that he

can turn it around given that he's had about the worst ten days of any candidate i can remember. >> michael steele, if you look at that new hampshire number, the principal goal to maintain the senate, kelly ayotte's gone. >> yeah. and the races like that concerns the senate committee, concerns the leadership in washington, which is why you're seeing the panic button. to mika's point about let's get out of the car, beginning to rise. these seats now become much more in play than they should be. look, some of these races were always going to be tough races, wisconsin, new hampshire, for those candidates, regardless of who the nominee was simply because of the make-up of the states. these are blue states in many cases for republicans. and it's a tough sell. but it becomes tougher when the top of your ticket, it become a drag. that's the concern that a lot of

folks looking at holding the senate have right now. new hampshire, numbers don't look good. i think here we are at the beginning of august. i think mark is making the most important point, is that there is still a lot of runway left here. >> yeah. >> for both these candidates in races like kelly ayotte's, as well as donald trump in his race. >> educate me. i'm completely lost. look at this right here, to your point, michael steele, kelly ayotte is losing possibly her senate seat. so is embracing trump going to help her? >> that's -- i mean, that's always been the trick for states like new hampshire. and soquel y -- so kelly ayotte and others in her position have from the beginning created that distance because they knew of the demographic hurdle that they had in the state.

they knew they were in trouble long before -- again because of the make-up. you know, i think a lot of people put much more weight on a trump presidential candidacy than they should because a lot of things were in play before donald trump became the nominee. and the blue wall that exists for republicans would have existed whether it was marco rubio, newt gingrich, or anyone else at the top of the ticket. there were some built-in hurdles that have always been there that the party had to overcome long before donald trump got the nomination. that's just now magnified by the fact that he has the nomination. >> kelly ayotte was also one of the people who came out probably earliest, clearly nervous around this idea of donald trump. new hampshire's kind of a funny example. it's not a diverse state. but i think particularly the events of the last week are probably going to have an impact there. military issues are very much central even for democrats in the state of new hampshire. i think that's what happening

with the khans probably impacted those numbers significantly. >> absolutely. >> that's what i'm wondering. at some point i -- i talk about the burning car. that is the burning car. when the khans came to the stage and trump followed up by the purple heart, followed up by lots of little things, just rudeness. there were deep-seated emotions that run through, course through the country. gold star parents, i mean, it starts and ends there. what republican could stand by that? what republican could keep going and say i'm going to vote for this guy? what republican could say i continue with my endorsement? why at that point does that not to leaders who can make an impact, perhaps at their own political peril, say we cannot stand by this person? we can't. i can't.

am i naive? >> you're making a case for principle over political pragmatism which is what a lot of american people agree with. >> isn't that what american people want? the difference they're looking for? they're not just looking for someone different who's crazy, who's going to nuke people. they want someone who's different, who's principled, who's going to keep their word, who's going to buck the trends in washington, who's going to get people to work together. that's the difference they want. they don't want crazy! >> a lot of people see that in donald trump, mika. >> no! what they're seeing now -- michael steele -- >> i know it may make your head spin -- >> no -- >> but that's the reality out there. >> it's up to you and me and -- it's up to you and my about mostly leaders in washington to say that's not what you're seeing. >> so what? that's not going to -- mika, the folks in washington are the ones these people are angry at. they're coming out abandoning donald trump. you think that's going to make them go, oh, i get it, now i'm going to follow them? no. >> do you think, michael steele, running after donald trump like a lemming is going to make

people love them more? how about finally, finally being leaders of principle? >> this isn't about their individual leadership. people don't care what paul ryan says about -- >> i think it is. have you seen the polls? >> in large measure, they're not following paul ryan on this. you think -- you think that they're following paul ryan because paul ryan took the position on donald trump? paul ryan would stake this position on donald trump because of the very people who could turn the house over, who could have a big impact on this election to the negative for the party. that's what -- they're following the people. the people aren't following them on this. >> a couple of days ago, donald trump said he's not ready to endorse paul ryan in his race there in wisconsin. governor mike pence broke with the man at the top of his ticket yesterday by endorsing speaker paul ryan in his re-election bid. he t came that day after donald trump declared he was not yet ready to do it. >> i talked donald trump this

morning about my support for paul ryan, our longtime friendship. he strongly encouraged me to endorse paul ryan in next tuesday's primary. i'm pleased to do it. >> speaker ryan getting support from plenty of people in wisconsin including ron johnson, locked in his own tough re-election battle. he said, "paul ryan is a man of intelligence, integrity, ideas, and courage. i fully support him." wisconsin's governor, scott walker, throwing his support behind ryan tweeting, "we stand with paul ryan." mike pence was announced as trump's vice presidential pick less than three weeks ago. already the running mate has distanced himself from the top of the ticket on several occasions. there's yesterday's endorsement of paul ryan, his denouncement of russian interference in the 2016 election which trump refused to do. >> right. >> on friday, he decried name-calling as having no place in public life, mike pence did. pence said he would try to end the media blacklist trump imposes on outlets that displease him. he praised the khan family on monday as trump was still

criticizing their "vicious attacks against him." and governor pence met with john mccain just hours after trump said he would not endorse him. joining us from kenosha, wisconsin, political reporter for the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst bob costa. this is very interesting. in many ways when you watch the campaign on an hour-by-hour basis, it looks like governor pence is running a parallel campaign to donald trump's. >> reporter: it is a parallel campaign. it's an ideological movement, conservative campaign running alongside this populus conservatism of donald trump. i think right here in kenosha, wisconsin, you're seeing the republican divide. ryan, the house speaker, is coming face to face not only with donald trump but the trump movement. paul nehland running against him in the upcoming tuesday primary is running hard in a personal race against ryan, calling him a globalist, an elitist. it's part of the whole rough and tumble of year 2016. >> i think it's fair to say,

bob, so the audience understands, that it will still be a long shot if paul ryan lost, right? >> it would be. wisconsin's different than, say, virginia where eric canter lost in a stunning upset in his primary in 2014. and wisconsin, of course, went for senator cruz in the primary, and paul ryan's done a lot of constituent service, he remains par lar in the district, private polls -- popular in the derick. private polls show paul ryan ahead of his opponent. you have the swirling storm of politics here that candidate paul nehland, yesterday in kenosha, he was railing against ryan on illegal immigration. part of the whole gop divide where it's establishment versus grassroots, so-called globalist conservatives like paul ryan, that's how he's being defined pie his opponents, verse -- by his opponents, versus the more trump-type conservative republican. >> you have close contacts in the trump campaign. what is donald trump up to in the case of paul ryan?

why is he going out of his way to tell the "washington post," to tell you guys that he's not ready to endorse paul ryan, to tweet nice things about ryan's primary appointment? is there a strategy here? >> reporter: there's not so much a strategy, but a reaction. it's a very telling one by donald trump. he is someone who enjoys praise. he enjoys when political figures come to him and praise him. that's what paul nehland has done, soliciting donald trump's support, voicing support for donald trump. and when paul ryan was reluctant to endorse, trump remembers that. he keeps a list in his head who've hasn't endorsed, who said certain things. to throw ryan's own phrasing back at him, i'm just not there yet, i'm just not there yet, that's a classic trump political move. it shows he's not a party man. mike pence, he's a party man. >> i think we have the understatement of the campaign, donald trump is someone who enjoys praise, said bob casta. in kenosha, thank you very much. >> with a straight face. good stuff.

jeremy peters is with us, as well. jeremy, to mika's point, what are some of these congressional republicans, senate republicans to do with donald trump at this point? i'm talking about paul ryan, but i'm also talking about kelly ayotte, john mccain? is there a breaking point for them? >> i think where it gets dicey and where you're starting to see a lot of republicans really panic is what happens in the seats, in the races where they assumed that they were going to win. i mean, you throw in the mix states like north carolina. you throw in states like iowa where chuck grassley is in a competitive race. you're talking about not just the loss of four seats. could be talking about ten. and if donald trump is running behind hillary clinton by about four, five, six points, that's easy for somebody like a pat toomey or a kelly ayotte to overcome. but if it's ten points, that -- that's almost unheard of. right now, the split ticket

voting that you're seeing with people, republicans voting for kelly ayotte but also supporting hillary clinton, voting for marco rubio but supporting hillary clinton for the general, it's -- that we haven't seen this level since the 1980s. and it's -- a question of how much more destructive trump is to his own campaign. and how much -- how much he continues to lose control of the narrative. think about what's happened over the last few days. where is hillary clinton right now? does anybody know? she's completely vanished from the radar. and we are only talking about donald trump. and as you ask republicans what they -- what they think about the race right now, one of the things they'll say is, look, whoever this election is about because the candidates are both so unpopular loses, and right now it's about donald trump.

>> joining us from jacksonville, nbc news correspondent hallie jackson. another day on the trump campaign. what can we expect today? >> reporter: let's do a couple of things. he's up in new england. he's got to stop up in maine and got to stop in upstate new york which is raising eyebrows. people think those aren't the key states, you'd think he'd be in pennsylvania, ohio. they're looking at one of the congressional district. remember they split electoral votes, it's a place where they could pick something off. an area where trump could do well. it should be noted the location of the town hall is not actually in that district. regardless, that's what trump is up to today. let's talk about where he has been as far as the bigger picture in this campaign. we've been talking about this idea of a potential, what are call, what we've been calling an intervention, that top trump supporters like rudy giuliani will be coming in, trying -- hoping to at least, to try to tell donald trump, listen, you got to moderate your tone, stop

going after republicans, stop going after people like gold star families. there's a real sense of concern, almost panic in the republican party, as jeremy was talking about. when you look at the numbers, the new swing state polls out, you see hillary clinton's post-convention bounce looking very real. starting to trickle down into some states. and frankly, concern that if it's a more than ten-point window for donald trump, if he loses to clinton in november, it's going to have a massive impact down ballot. i would say two other quick things. one, the clinton campaign trying to take advantage, courting republicans, independents. you see what happened with meg whim. now there's word that seth -- meg whitman. now there's word that there's a top donor on the republican side defecting, saying he cannot support donald trump because of the comments. the other point, you know i'm at the rallies all the time. trump's supporters are shrugging this off in a big way. they simply don't care. one person said to our team yesterday, hey, donald trump's in trouble with the republican

elites, not the regular republicans like me, the blue-collar men and women that make up the base of his support. whether or not this is -- all this, the controversy after controversy is going to have an impact on trump with his base is a question mark. although you have seen slippage, at least in our new online tracking poll this week, among white men and among those with no college education. people who previously, during the primaries, made up a substantial part of his support. >> those are still big energized crowds you saw last night in florida. hallie jackson, thank you very much. >> thank you. michael steele, you still there? >> yeah. i'm here. >> for these republicans who are facing re-elections at some point, here's a checklist -- you're a republican, right? okay, and you're a real republican. has donald trump demonstrated that he knows anything about foreign policy, yes or no? >> no. >> would he really make us safer, yes or no? >> i don't know what that means, so i -- i can't answer that. i don't know what that means. >> does he defend patriots from what we've seen?

>> does he defend patriots? >> patriots, people who are extremely patriotic, gold star moms -- >> i think overall the answer -- i think overall the answer to that would be yes in the eyes of a lot of his supporters. >> really? >> yeah. >> will he keep his words and promises to fellow republicans? what lose what has he demonstrated so far? >> to fellow republicans? i don't think his base cares if he keeps his word to fellow republicans -- >> like, i promise to back paul ryan's initiative for the poor? >> i think on those types of policy things, i think he would. >> you think he would keep his word? >> i think he's going to rely on ryan in the house and mcconnell in the senate to help further that agenda, yeah. >> is he a republican? >> no. >> okay. interesting checklist. half the columns are -- >> mika? bernie sanders wasn't a democrat. >> he's not running for president. >> this is my point.

what does it say about an electorate that is more gravitating toward the person outside of the system? the problem bernie sanders had was timing. and the luck of the draw. that could have been a very different race if bernie sanders caught fire earlier in the process. the only point, the voters out there are sending a very different signal to the establishment. i think that hallie made my point that i was trying to convey earlier. the base doesn't see the problem with them. they see the problem that trump is having with the establishment. and that's okay by them. >> still ahead on "morning joe," nbc news political director chuck todd joins the conversation. and later, dr. ben carson is our guest. we'll see if he believes the trump campaign is in need of some tough love. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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i just want to tell you the campaign is doing really well. it's never been so well united. we started on june 16th. i would say right now it's the best in terms of being united

that it's been since we began. >> joining us from washington, nbc news political director and moderator of "meet the press" and host of mtv daily, chuck todd. online editor of "the weekly standard," michael warren. former adviser to senator rand paul, contributor it "time" magazine and msnbc political analyst elise jordan. good to have you on board. chuck todd, educate me. what's going on with this intervention? why don't republican leaders jump out of a burning car? >> the best way to focus is republican leaders in washington think folks that have been grudgingly trying to make this work with trump are just hoping they can repeat the pattern that they thought temporarily worked before. when they wanted to get rid of lewandowski and get paul ma

manafort in there. when trump wanted to go one way on the running mate and there was a concerted effort saying, no, you've got to get conservatives, appease them a little, go with penn. they went to the kids, they went -- this is what this is about. one last time, go to the kids and get them. >> chuck, you can't control what comes out of his mouth. >> reporter: that said, i had the same reaction you had. i said, you really think he's going to change? and then believe it or not, i've had multiple conversations going, well, maybe we can convince him to withdraw. and i was just -- it was sort of, really? i know -- i think that's fantasy land. that's fantasy talk. i think at a minimum they can get him to stop attacking fellow republicans. ultimately that's what i think they think is one doable things they think with him. do they think they can get him to be a disciplined candidate? no. if they can get him to stop

attacking fellow republicans on a daily basis -- >> wait a minute -- >> they think they'll make mild success. >> that's small thinking. extremely tiny thinking because the people he's attacking beyond fellow republicans are far more important to how a leader leads in this country. and the tone he's going to set in this country. and he's setting a very dangerous tone. my question is, why do republican leaders care about whether or not they are nice to him? okay? >> i think it's a total -- i think it's one of those -- there are people that think if they abandon him, it's worse for the party than if they somehow limp to the finish line together. there are plenty of republicans who are starting to believe what you believe, which is, no, it's worse to be with them. >> it's worse. >> this goes to the whole debate that ultimately i think the parties have in this debate -- and i've used this metaphor before -- do you believe donald

trump's a stain on the party or a tattoo, right? if you believe he's a stain, you can wash it away, move on after the election. if you believe he's a tattoo, then you don't want to be associated with him. i think it depends where you stand. >> at what point do republicans who are either up for re-election or in office right now say they want to limp to the finish line with that? >> i think -- >> because what is sort of the darkness that perhaps is being unveiled or brought back by this candidacy? by the words that come out of the candidate's mouth? okay, do they want to be a part of that? we are going back in time, and if anybody doesn't agree with that, you really need to look at what he's saying and what types of forces he's igniting in this country with his language. >> i mean, i completely agree. i think he's bringing out the worst of our country, not the best right now. and i think that you look at what the republicans are doing with this so-called intervention. even that language is negative language. the fact that they're talking

about it publicly, an intervention, that is not language that can make donald trump happy. this is really more of a political human resources activity than anything. just cover their tracks, have the meeting, 30 days before you want to fire the guy. later you can say, oh, we did this. it's like having sexual harassment training at fox news. it's pointless. it's just for show, for legal, for covering your tracks. >> michael warren, i know paul ryan's job is more complicated than some of the others here because he's got to try to hold the party together as speaker of the house. do you think there will be high-profile republicans who have endorsed donald trump, who will watch what's been happening the last couple of weeks and maybe what's in the next couple of weeks and say i'm out, i can't do this anymore, or do they ride to the finish line with him? >> it's hard to say. donald trump -- i think in deciding to withhold his endorsement from people like paul ryan, john mccain, actually makes that even harder for them. because of all the string of things that donald trump has done that are reprehensible and bad for the party, are they

really going withhold their endorsement or wall the-- or withdraw their endorsement because they have a problem with him? i think ultimately they have to be looking now -- this is what paul ryan has said publicly about why he's supporting the nominee. they're caring about now the senate majority and house majority and trying to protect that. that's why you're hearing all this talk about an intervention. it's less about saving donald trump who i think a lot of washington republicans figure he -- he is not going to win in november. it's about sort of preserving what they have now. but there is this bigger question that mika's bringing up and i think others are bringing up. sort of the soul of the party. and what does the party look like even if it loses with donald trump in november and maybe holds on to the senate and the house. sell that, as chuck says, a tattoo -- is that, as chuck says, a tattoo? i think republicans are waking up, they've got a hangover after spring break and realizing, wait

a minute, what did i get on me last night? a day late and a dollar short. >> that's -- what did i get on me last night? >> the trump campaign is so obsessively focused on donald trump or at least donald trump is focused on donald trump that the clinton campaign has to be sitting there thinking, you know, we are the luckiest candidacy the democratic party has ever had. never mind the past two weeks. in a couple of days when you've had the $400 million drop in tehran as an issue, the trump campaign seemingly cannot get to, i mean, have you ever in your memory encountered a luckier campaign than the clinton campaign? >> it was something, in philadelphia last week the theory of the case that democrats who i thought seemed pretty confident about winning in november would put forward is one that they have a much better organization than donald trump does. two, that their candidate got lucky getting donald trump as the opponent. and they're well aware of that.

there's always -- and that when you put it against what michael steele was saying earlier, the fact that this a very flawed candidate. every republican you neat -- you meet. i think that's partly why they're reluctant to ditch donald trump. they will all say this is a flawed candidate, an election we should win. hillary clinton is beatable. i think they're clinging to a vague hope that even with donald trump and his bad ground game, his bad candidacy, his bad attitude, they can still beat hillary clinton because he is hated so much. i think that's one thing that the clinton campaign is underestimating perhaps, that out in so many of these areas, in ohio and pennsylvania, there's a real hatred of hillary clinton. i mean, they really, really hate her. you've heard it. i've heard it. and that perhaps is what's, you know, keeping some republicans in the trump car, even as it's bursting into flames. >> okay. i guess that's one way of putting it. chuck todd, mike warren, elise

jordan, thank you very much. great to have you all on. coming up, an update on the deadly attack in london. word this morning the woman killed was an american national. more on that ahead. owen! hey kevin. hey, fancy seeing you here. uh, i live right over there actually. you've been to my place. no, i wasn't...oh look, you dropped something. it's your resume with a 20 dollar bill taped to it. that's weird. you want to work for ge too. hahaha, what? well we're always looking for developers who are up for big world changing challenges like making planes, trains and hospitals run better. why don't you check your new watch and tell me what time i should be there. oh, i don't hire people. i'm a developer. i'm gonna need monday off. again, not my call. [baby talk] [child giggling]

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we've just learned an american national is dead and five other people injured after a man went on a stabbing spree in london. reports of a man slashing at people emerged just after 10:00 local time last night in russell square. police have arrested a 19-year-old man who was a

norwegian national of somali ancestry. the motive unclear at this point. however, british police have said so far there is no evidence of radicalization or that the suspect was motivated by terrorism. again, the new information here is that it was an american national who was killed in london last night. ahead, the news cycle that won't end for donald trump. why he's still talking about gold star families. "morning joe" back in a moment. be the you who shows up in that dress. who hugs a friend. who is done with treatments that don't give you clearer skin. be the you who controls your psoriasis with stelara® just 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses. stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. some serious infections require hospitalization. before treatment, get tested for tuberculosis. before starting stelara® tell your doctor if you think you have an infection or have symptoms such as: fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough. always tell your doctor if you have any signs of infection, have had cancer, if you develop any new skin growths or if anyone in your house needs or has

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[woman speaking indistinctly]

nexium 24hfor their own#1 choice of docfrequent heartburn.s for complete protection all day and night make nexium 24hr your #1 choice. the discussions of donald trump's dispute with a fallen army captain's family continued as do coatsa meyer elaborated saying, "it needed to be said. what he doesn't understand is it's a sacred family to the whole nation. that's why they're called a gold star family." meyer, who supported republican rick perry and is the son-in-law of sarah palin, added, "nobody wants to vote for hillary clinton, but what i want is a commander in chief who

definitely understands the people he'll be leading. people who have sacrificed more than myself, like the khan family." meyer added, "donald trump has done so great. he goes around and makes people feel like they're back on top. the hope is that donald trump needs to step up and get focused and be the great leader that i know he can be. donald trump is the only hope we have for change." and last night at his rally in jacksonville, trump called attention to a gold star family, several of them actually, who were in attendance. >> just a little while ago i met with the gold star families. i met with six families that were -- just incredible people. a gentleman handed me a check and said, you know, mr. trump, this is for your campaign. and i said you don't have to do that. he goes, i do. he said, it's more money, and i haven't even opened it yet, i don't think i'll tell you how much it is actually, but he said it's more money -- wow. he said, it's more money -- more

money than we can afford. but i want you to have it for your campaign. [ applause ] >> obviously a response to the whole khan situation. is there a sense inside the trump campaign or donald himself that this has been greatly damaging to his prospect, or do they think this is just a bump in the road? >> i think there is something that is going to last much longer than many of these other controversies or something that's really playing a role in this race, kind of settling as we head into the end of the summer and labor day. i mean, i will say listening to donald trump over the course of the last couple of weeks, he's demonstrated what frankly a lot of americans have demonstrated over the last ten years which is that most people are pretty disconnected from the sacrifices that a lot of the people who have been involved in these wars have made -- >> 1%. 1%. >> such a small number of people bearing this burden. and most people don't know how

to talk about it. they don't know how to approach it. i think trump is displaying that here. and i think one advantage for people who have served in government, hillary clinton, for example, watched her husband make some of these decisions. they understand what it's like to be a person who made a decision that ultimately, you know, ended somebody else's life. that's a weighty things and something that you can't come to without experience. >> so jeremy peters, to bring you back into the conversation, i'm trying to -- look, trump supporters, people who support donald trump are -- are people who should be respected for how they feel. i worry that they don't understand that they're being scammed. and that they're being scammed by someone who's really good at it. so it's not like it's their fault. but i will say it's a scam, what trump is selling. talking to gold star families

after the biggest gaffe in probably presidential politics, candidacies, history, what he did with the khans is trying to clean up. i mean, do you want someone who speaks from the heart and says nothing or says anything? or do you want someone who speaks from the heart and has some principle behind it and sticks to his word? this is a scam. and it seems like he has a lot of followers, jeremy. >> there is a real risk in alienating those followers. i think especially among whites without college degrees who have been his strongest base of support. when you start insulting military families, that is -- that group are those people. those -- many families in the military are whites without college degrees. i spoke yesterday with a i -- a diehard supporter of trump who speaks to him quite regularly. for the first time i heard a sense of anxiety in his voice

that i hadn't heard before. that stems from a couple of things. one is that you just don't know what donald trump is going to do next. number two is, there's a belief that while we may laugh at it, the machine is working against him. the system is "rigged." they see all the media coverage of this, the saturation of this khan story and realize exactly what they're up against and how difficult it is going to be for him to regain control of his campaign. >> all right. jeremy peters, thank you. ahead, trump supporter, one-time opponent dr. ben carson joins us. we'll ask him about talk of an intervention with the candidate and what trump allies could possibly say to the nominee if they were to intervene. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." earn double milen you buy stuff from that airline. wait...is this where you typically shop? you should be getting double miles on every purchase! switch...to the capital one venture card. with venture, you earn unlimited double miles

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there's a conflict within the trump campaign. we've had a rule of not getting involved in primaries because it's usually not a good situation for the presidential candidate. of course he's going to work with paul ryan. of course he's tried to bridge the party together with paul ryan. ryan is also running against somebody who's not going to win. nonetheless is a strong supporter of mr. trump's. >> that was trump campaign chairman paul manafort explaining why the republican nominee cannot back the speaker of the house in his primary this tuesday. joining us is former republican presidential candidate dr. ben carson, currently advising republican presidential nominee donald trump. dr. carson, it's great to have you with us as always, sir. we've been showing new poll, one

from fox news has hillary clinton up nationally by ten points. more troubling perhaps for the trump campaign, swing state polls in places like new hampshire and michigan that show donald trump now trailing by wider margins than he ever has. what does donald trump need to do if you think he does need to do anything to turn this around? >> i think the most important things is to focus on the issues. that's where his strength is, to be able to talk about the economy because it's going to be very difficult for his opponent to make the economy look good. i know they will try to redefine things. it's just not going to work if you give people the actual facts. you know, when it comes to unemployment rate, it's claimed to be 5% or lower. he suld get some ross perot-type charts and show that you can make that number anything you want depending on who you include and exclude, and that the labor force participation rate is the real number. and explain to people what this is. this is really the key.

he has to begin to educate the american people and stay on the issues and not allow himself to be dragged off into the hint hinterlands because that's what his opponents would like a lot republicans, where in a week donald trump was focused on a gold star family? >> yes. it would be a very good thing to just pivot always to the issues. you know, i would love him to carry around a little card in his pocket and every time he is asking about something that wants to drag him off he pulls that up and says no mud. let's talk about the issues. we need to keep focusing on that. this is not a democrat or republican issue. you know, the fiscal issues that face us, the terrorism issues, the deteriorating school system,

they effect all americans. we have to talk about the facts and talk about why one believes what they believe. >> dr. carson, if we asked 100 republicans what donald trump would do i think 100 would give the same answer you did. is he not talking about it because he is not disciplined? >> i think he is learning. you know, i identify very much with him. you know, i was like that many years ago. if i felt attacked i just couldn't let it go. i had to attack back. later on i learned that real strength is being able to ignore who someone else says and move towards your goal. >> so what do you think of the tone of donald trump's campaign at the moment then? the way he spoke about the khan

family but calling hillary clinton the devil. is that the kind of tone you would like him to be using? >> no. i would like to see, again, and i can't emphasize it enough, both sides begin to actually discuss the issues that are effecting our future. i'm worried about our children and grandchildren and people coming behind us. already the debt service is our third our fourth largest annual expense as the government. soon it will be the second or third and then it will be the first or the second. we can't do that to the people who are coming behind us. these are big issues. why are we not talking about this? >> given that you don't like the tone, you don't like the tactics and you don't like what you have seen especially since the convention -- and there are many

on the inside, i know myself firsthand that are trying to get him to do exactly what you're talking about. so given that he is not, do you think that he is fit to be president? >> i'm not sure that he is not listening. i talked to him very recently. and he is listening. i think you'll see him focusing much more on the issues and on his opponent and not allowing himself to be dragged off into the bushes. >> and this has been tried before. he hasn't listened in the past. we talked to you and they say he is going to start listening. it hasn't happened. it has only gotten worse. >> well, frequently it's a progression. you know, people don't necessarily change overnight. as we get closer to the election, by necessity you have to at some point begin to talk

about the issues. you know, i would encourage those of you in the news media to take the bull by the horns and say look, guys, let's get away from all of this silly stuff and let's talk about the issues. force a discussion on the issues. it is very important. we are trying to desicide what kind of nation we are going to be. are we going to be a nation formed by the people? it is an important decision that will have incredible ramifications for the future. >> has donald trump ever reached out for help? you think it is something he does? >> you know, we recently have been engaged in a conversation about talking to the demographics that have traditionally not been reached out to by the republican party and what can be done to bring

people out of dependency and give them a part of the american dream. there are some solid things that can be done to do that. we'll start talking about those a great deal more. >> in your career you have had to deal with many families who you have been working with and helping with medically. i'm curious, why do you think donald trump running for president and people like to think people who are their presidents have some sense of their lives -- why do you think donald trump finds it so difficult to speak to loss? >> to speak to who? >> to loss, to lose a son or daughter in combat, to lose your home, to loss. we showed a clip of donald trump in florida. he started talking about gold star families and quickly equ e equated the gold star meeting to money. he had a check from a gold star

family. why do you think it is so tough for him to speak to loss? >> i don't accept that it is difficult for him to speak for loss. >> why has he done it? >> he has done it. >> when? >> if you look back you'll see it. he will begin to put out many of the stories that i'm very familiar with of things that he has done to help people who have been in very very difficult situations. you know, he feels that, you know, that's self-praise and he doesn't want to do it. i would love for it to come out. >> you said they have and now you're saying you're looking forward to them. i personally know donald trump and i know a lot of amazing really kind acts he has done one on one with people. the candidate that i see is not the person i know. i feel that you're speaking

about someone but you don't really have facts to back it up. you say he speaks to loss and that he has. tell us where. tell us when. >> you just said yourself you're aware. >> i'm aware of acts. i'm asking has he been able to speak of loss and connect can someone else's loss. tell us where. tell us wlechbhen. >> well, he has talked about enormous loss we have had in this country by allowing radical islamic extremists to run without having a kcoherent plan to destroy them. the implications for all families who are losing service members is significant. >> dr. ben carson, thank you. up next after a string of

bad aiheadlines, it's not stoppg talk of a campaign in crisis. and new polls out this morning. are we all going in the wrong direction? we are back with much more "morning joe." ♪ using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the framework... wire... and plants needed to give my shop... a face... no one will forget. see what the power of points can do for your business. learn more at chase.com/ink see what the power of points can do for your business. does your makeup remover every kiss-proof,ff? cry-proof, stay-proof look? neutrogena® makeup remover does. it erases 99% of your most stubborn makeup with one towelette. need any more proof than that? neutrogena.

i would be assured of

winning, okay? >> assured. good morning everybody. it is thursday, august 4th. how do i sound? >> much better today. >> okay. hopefully it lasts. i have lemon water with me here. joe is off. we have mike barnicle. mark halperin, how are you? >> good morning. >> i loved watching your show yesterday. it is so good. >> thank you. >> i like watching your show. >> speak out. >> i did. i sent in a letter. political analyst and former chairman of republican national committee, michael steele. >> it is a something show.

>> and in washington caddy joins us. >> have any of you participated in an intervention? >> i have. >> a formal one. >> a formal one that is in deep trouble. >> the success rate isn't very high. >> a person, just a person, one person, have you ever had an intervention where you had to get around with everybody that loves the person and try to tell them what they doing that is killing them? >> by the time you get around to doing the intervention it is usually too late. >> and the response is usually what? >> denial. >> rejection. >> anger. >> i thought you guys were my friend. >> never speak to you again. such a relief.

>> those went well for you, didn't they? >> a friend of mine had a serious drug problem and he blamed cnn. >> we kind of understand. joking. after national polls showing trump slipping to hillary clinton, after trump's ongoing feud with gold star parents during the first days of the general election, after trump's refusal to back party icons like speaker paul ryan the talk yesterday was whether the candidate was in need of an intervention and whether top allies would compel the nominee to make a dramatic reset of his campaign. sources tell nbc news former new york city mayor and ex-house

speaker who spoke out yesterday. >> i don't know if it is a fixable problem but i think it's a very big moment for trump. he has got to find a way to slow down, really learn some new lessons. it's a little bit like the apprentice except she the apprentice -- he is the apprentice, he is not the boss. >> focused. the campaign is moving forward in a positive way. the only need for an intervention is for media types who keep saying things that aren't true. >> i talk to donald trump just about every day. look, you're always going to hear these inside baseball discussions. this campaign is totally focused on strengtsenning america. >> they tell u.s. news and world report that trump has increasingly been back in

regular contact with his former campaign manager. an unidentified campaign staffer says trump was alarmed by a call he received last week from a senior adviser who hemewarned t nominee you are not going to win. the call was from jerrad jerrad cushner. >> many are advising you to focus your attacks on hillary clinton. they say you are being baited. >> i think that's probably right, more focus on hillary clinton. she is a disaster. we'll focus more on hillary clinton. absolutely. >> it is an interesting story line. i feel like we have watched this candidate again and again and again blow past stop signs and

do things that are -- well, you can't take them back. you can't refocus. an intervention won't help. we have kind of seen who he is and how he would lead. i think the bigger question is about republican leaders and if they are going to take a stand now and preserve what's left of their party and go down in flames in losing every bit of their principal, promises to their people and themselves and moral compass. >> whether it is friends calling him it is hard for me to see how to see going up to the top of trump tower and telling him what's what will change the way they have done business. >> he is not going to change. it is who he is. the idea that they will build the state by state organization, that's something you build over

a generation over years and years and years. it is little late to start building a presidential formal campaign. >> they are not going to take this nomination away from him. >> no. but he is also not out of it. is people around him who are rational and tactical would like to see him get back on track over the next couple of weeks. if he has a strong first debate he could be back in this race. it is so daunting. it is for us to be the democrats we have to run a perfect race. >> you're not doing that? >> states like colorado where a lot of republicans have already written it off, he is not leaving himself very much of a margin of error. >> michael steele, what would you tell donald trump three

months out? >> i would start with the one question, do you want to be president. if the answer to that is yes then you need to start acting like it. right now to the points made around the table you're losing this election. listen to your brother-in-law, you're losing this election. not only are you gilosing it, you're giving it away. you're leaving things on the table that you can take to the democrats. it's not about you. it's not about show boating. it's not about a primary you beat 15 other guys at. this is from what you will do in the middle east to how you're going to grow jobs. that's the focus you need to have. if you want this job you better tell the american people you want it and start acting like it otherwise this is over. we'll focus on holding the house and making the other gains we

need to rebuild after you're done with this. >> we say what we see. i saw that he would win the nominati nomination. you can see a lot of things here. we get use to it because we watch it close up. mark halperin, is this a candidate that want to win? is this a candidate that flips around the purple heart and disgraces himself in front of gold star families especially those who really have given the ultimate and went on stage? he took the bait like child. is this a candidate who wants to win or is getting bored and child like. >> no, sir rational way to explain it. >> does it look like somebody

that wants to win? >> he has an obligation to the party. he ran for the nomination. he has an obligation to not hurt the other people. there is no textbook who that tells you here is how you win a race in a general election if 70% of your base is mad at you. 70% of you do does not want them to denounce donald trump. >> maybe it is about leading and maybe in the end you'll be right and maybe that's a lrisk you ca take. >> paul ryan feels his obligation is not to let hillary clinton have this house majority. most of the house members are in districts that are heavily republican. >> they also run the risk of transforming this country in a really negative way. >> so with all of this in the

background trump was greeted by huge crowds, 8,000 in daytona beach and another 10,000 in jacksonville. he spoke optimistically about his chances while reminding republicans what makes him so unique. >> i want to tell you the campaign is doing really well. it has never been so well united. we started on june 16th. i would say right now it is the best in terms of being united that it's been since we began. you know, the route to the white house for the republicans is much more difficult. you know that. you look at the maps. you look at the maps. and yet for me, not being your typical republican, i guess, we have a lot of states in play. i think we'll do great in michigan. most republicans would never stop for dinner in some of these

states. i don't want to tell you what the states are. they have a lot of money. they will start advertising, they will show the golf shot. at least they gave me -- hey, my swing looked good. if i were them i would have picked a bad looking swing where i'm falling over. i have those too. at least my swing looked good. thank you, hillary. >> a new poll spells some trouble for the rust-belt strategy. it shows hillary clinton clinton leading 49-38 after a poll last week that shows clinton beating trump by 9 points in pennsylvania. 20 electoral college votes are esz sensual. it shows hillary clinton with a 10-point lead. the latest in a string of descending numbers for trump. clinton has obama-like margins with women voters, 57-34.

hispanic voters where clinton is up 68-20. trump's dominant groups includes men. his lead is 45-40. he has a ten-point advantage among white voters and white voters without a college degree. a new national poll taken over the month of july shows secretary clinton with a 48-point lead among hispanics. trump is at 18% in the florida university poll. it is a drop off from romney's 27% in 2012 and john mccain in 2008 and george w. bush narrowed the gap among hispanics to 9 points in 2004. >> this is one of the most dangerous things. the republican party sounds like

four years ago in late october, forget all of the polls. we are drawing 10,000. we are drawing big crowds. we must be winning. if that's the complacency they will lose on a landslide. >> it is pennsylvania. if he can't overperform in pennsylvania he will not win this presidency. they have an idea of a special three-state strategy but pennsylvania is one of those states where his idea is i can bring in voters who have not been there before. i can overperform. if he can't win them he can't be president. >> and he had a sanders-like performance raids raising a lot of money. >> yes. we heard if he can just get his act together he could clean up, that the appetite was out there for those donors. it looks as if those and

partnership providing the technical background for him to do it. there was a big suppressed appetite. it is really there. he might be, you know, sanders-type candidate. it is a big deal. >> michael steele. he raised all of this money in this last quarter. he has no ground game at least that we have been told about. he has no sophisticated get out to vote operations. what is he going to do with all of the money? >> i think a lot of that will go to the down ballot races that are on the radar screens. we'll see some of that money. they do have organizations on the ground. they have always had those in place. they have been building that for the past 18 months or so. it you do expect the presidential campaign to have an

infrastructure for that, but the party does as well. it has been in place for quite some time. a lot of those dollars will go there. i do have a question for mark. that is, looking at those poll numbers, you know, if we are looking at a double digit, you know, lead for hillary clinton in places like colorado, pennsylvania, florida, that this is the path you can't overcome eventual lie. it will set in place and be harder to overcome that sm. >> the first debate can make up 5 points on his own. i asked them, what's trump's floor? what's the lowest you get? he said about 40. that is where he is. in some polls he is not even at 40. you get we to labor day and if it's not a competitive race you're already seeing a lot from

republicans. let's try to keep the house and senate. so he doesn't have much time to figure out how to get above 40 and keep her above 50 or the psychology will become overpowering. he can do it but he has to get into the mid-40s in a lot of places. still ahead, in a galaxy far astray, we talk about delusion drama. first, the ties that bind. hillary clinton mocks donald trump for having a signature made overseas. belize was hit directly. it was a hurricane when it made land fall. it should stay very weak and we are safe in the united states and much of mexico will get

much-needed rainfall from it. lower 48. little rock to monroe to shreveport, the feels like temperature feels like 115 this afternoon. that's ugly. the flash flood watch continues. we are also going to be dealing with severe weather later on today. yesterday six tornados. today mostly damaging winds and this is our friends there. it is about 4 million people at risk of severe storms. how is the forecast for today? there is perfect weather. d.c. 85. new york, philly, boston looking great. toasty in st. louis and chicago. for all of our friends waking up in seattle that is gorgeous. once you get inland it gets kind of hot. a sneak peek at your friday get away forecast, thunderstorms late in the evening. by saturday some of those storms

will be in the northeast. if you have plans in the jersey shore you will be dodging some of those thunderstorms come this saturday afternoon. we leave you with a beautiful shot. not far away now. friday night the opening ceremony, gorgeous there. we are looking at about 73 degrees with clear skies. couldn't ask for better weather conditions for thetart of our olympic games. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. well that's why i dug this out for you. it's your grandpappy's hammer and he would have wanted you to have it. it meant a lot to him... yes, ge makes powerful machines. but i'll be writing the code that will allow those machines to share information with each other. i'll be changing the way the world works. (interrupting) you can't pick it up, can you? go ahead. he can't lift the hammer. it's okay though! you're going to change the world.

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outsourcing production for signature products. in a new political ad she calls out trump for making many of his products overseas. >> when donald trump is asked about where he makes things he makes them any where else but america. oh, his ties, suits, shirts, furniture, his bar wear made all over the world, turkey, mexico. he said we don't make that stuff in america. i'm here to tell you, donald, you're wrong. >> where were these made? >> these were made -- i don't know where they were made but they are great. it is ties, shirts, cuff links sold at macy's. >> where are the shirts made? >> bangladesh. >> they are beautiful ties.

>> the ties are made where? china. >> that's an ad from hillary clinton's campaign. you got miss dave. >> dave, come back. we have heard trump talking about jobs and making his products overseas. hillary introducing this to a larger general election office. >> yes. i think what we learned is there is hard core voters who believe him over everything else and nothing can move them. a general election is very different. i'm sure it has told her it rez c r -- >> and it goes caddy to his

hypocrisy is what the clinton campaign would say. the thrust of the campaign is nationalism, bringing jobs back and he doesn't practice it himself. >> and the childrlinton campaig saying they are seeing movement from i just want to protest to right now i have to make a real decision-type attitude then that's when these kinds of ads and this kind of information could influence them to move towards what they hope is a more reasonable pro clinton-type decision. it seems amazing to me that after a year anyone is left to make up their minds. you would have thought everybody must have made up their mind by now. if people went into this thinking i'm so angry, any change is better than nothing. the drip of well, actually is this person electable, do i want this person running the country?

is he reasonable? is he telling the truth? that's when they could have some sort of impact. >> you know, it has a ten-point national lead point. she is still at 36% honest and trustworthy. >> she would win with numbers like that because of the nature of the choice. you know, it will be interesting to see how donald trump responds because of his relationship with fox. that's new michigan poll that shows her with a big lead. that issue of outsourcing will be an issue if the race ends up being close. trump bragging about michigan being a big state for him. mi >> so many republicans, hard-core republicans, who are

voting for clinton. they just can't do it. i just don't understand. aren't leaders supposed to lead even when it's hard? >> you have the nature of that poll too. you reference the trustworthy number. hillary clinton 65% and donald trump 43%. it has temperament to effectively serve as president. hillary clinton 64%. donald trump is 37%. people are all over the lot. >> nick. >> it was telling he was consulting with corey who is famously with the donald should be donald strategy. it seems like he is going back to his comfort zone. what got him here was pick a fight with anybody. that is his whole personality. it is hard for him to get away

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as chairman of the campaign we have a position of not getting involved in primaries. paul ryan is a personal friend of mike pence. he nominated him for vice president. donald trump understood that relationship. i support him as a speaker and i know after next week i will support him for president -- >> really? >> there is talk about that. >> that was trump campaign manager paul manafort and whether he supports ryan in his upcoming primary. we are back with mike barnicle, mike halperin and katy tur. take it away.

lucky you. >> reporter: we have a good city today, absolutely. >> what's going on today? you just heard paul manafort. you know, i think you all -- i don't think he is the best representative of a positive campaign but maybe it's not a positive campaign. what's the plan? what's the strategy moving forward? >> reporter: you know, i spoke to the campaign a lot yesterday. there was really push back. there was an intervention or b that there's any sort of campaign turmoil. i was told donald trump is the outsider candidate. they pointed me repeatedly to their fundraising members, $82 million. it is a cig inform casignifican. donald trump can't seem to get himself away from controversy. they said there was something of a light in the tunnel, maybe a

sliver of light since donald trump isn't go on the attack yesterday. so whether this remains the case, whether donald trump reset day two continues we'll find out in a couple of hours here in portland. so far there is little hope donald trump can change in the long run because the gop has been burned so many times in the past. you guys mentioned another billionaire, gop leaning donor is deciding not to give his money to donald trump. that follows meg whitman. also the coke brothers are still snubbing donald trump. these gop doe nars anors are no him money. will it effect playing in the battleground state? you mentioned the polling. it is not good in some three big battleground states, michigan,

new hampshire but so far if you look at what they were able to raise for last month, $82 million is pretty significant. i would point to the majority of that coming from digital donations, i'm wondering how much of it was small dollar donations and if it proves to be small dollar donations. donald trump may be proving he doesn't need the billionaires on his side. he may be able to do it without them. that being said, he can raise money. the controversies are following him. they seem to be taking a toll in the polls. >> okay. so just my take away here, i'll keep it really short, but why does he need any of these people? he has got -- he's got republican leaders in congress falling in line. they fall in line and do whatever he says. nobody pushes back. so does he need these big

bundlers and all of these other people? >> i think he is trying to send a signal to folks, don't mess with him. the small contributions are powerful. not only do people give and continue to give but they become invested in the campaign, work as volunteers, work to get their friends and neighbors out. the theory of the trump campaign is to be a movement and not a normal campaign. a normal campaign would spend a lot of time courting bundlers. he is doing some of that. this is the best news they have had. >> i think what the clinton campaign wants is they want to normalize the idea of voting for hillary clinton. they want swing state voters, people who voted for john kasich in ohio to say i have been a republican my whole life but i'll admit i'm voting for hillary and that's all okay, right? >> it's a safe bet. >> it's the safe bet. >> i do think one challenge is,

we have portrayed it as a positive thing for her. they are independent and republican but it's not necessarily the year for the 1%. >> no. >> i wonder if there is a tipping point where that kind of narrative starts to be a problem. >> i'm wondering, what does the trump campaign do with the money they have raised? >> if they have got rid of any tv ads. if you look at, i'm sure, trump in his own mind trump will say he is down in pennsylvania because clinton has been running campaign ads there. it doesn't explain michigan but i think tv adds will be where they spend a lot of this. if you ask do you have good ideas? they have a lot of good ideas. >> thank you. up next, is this election coming down to dunham on the left and duck dynasty on the

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if you're looking for a job or try to go grow a business like i am, donald trump will have your back. >> donald trump and his party think i should be punished for exercising my constitutional rights. >> my voice is so bad. will you read this? long introe. i'm a frog. >> i'm sorry. that was willie robertson speak agent the republican national

convention. it is boiling down to a duck dynasty to a lena dunham and willie robertson, a celebrity endorser at the republican convention. no longer an actual aspect of political decision making party conventions are wholly a similar li symbolic affair. she had a woman focused view to a significant part of the country and robertson, an older military inclined, white male focused view to the dunham. >> you were very good at that. thank you.

>> is et realit really down to ? >> i don't think there are -- there are no issues in this campaign. it breaks down there's no idolo ideology. what is that? i'm a kind grandmother? what it is is two different countries. i don't live in your country. you don't live in my country. i don't like you. i don't like you. there is this clear divide. to me it's incredibly alarming partly because nobody is try to go bridge that divide. they say donald trump is a crazy person. they can reach out to this other side and they made no effort. it was their convention.

>> where did they miss out on reaching out to the other side in the democratic convention? >> what was their convention? their convention was about their interests. we had transgender bathrooms. we had this diversity thing. we had all of this -- the democratic party as functionally a cliche. this is who we are. we are a characature of ourselves. do we recognize there is a -- there is a revolt out there. there's an open revolt, at any late, a weird revolt. something is going on which nobody in the democratic party gave a sense that they understand. >> or care about. >> and you always had a good

observer's eye. let's look at the two cities as theaters. talk about the people participating in that theater as a play. >> i think it's a very good way to do it. what you saw was two different peop peoples. in philadelphia you saw this idea of the democratic party. it was a party of minorities. it was a party of -- >> of unity, of openness of all faiths and backgrounds, respect for people who have fought for this country, respect for people who are struggling to make a living wage. you heard from all of those people on stage. >> the people you didn't hear from was the donald trump people, the people whoever this group is who we don't know, be you this group who just ponied up $82 million for donald trump.

who are these people? i saw them in cleveland. they were totally unrecognizable to me. you know, people sitting next to me, there is a funny obscene, a little aside in my story, which i won't repeat but it was this kind of thing. you think they speak a different language. i don't know these people. hillary clinton doesn't know that he has people. nobody in the democratic people knows these people. >> people in the democratic party don't know them either. that's how we ended up here. >> yes and it becomes more concerning that the entire establishment, democratic and republican is aligning against these people so it doesn't matter, if the country elects him he can't be president.

he is -- >> well, he would be impeached in like two weeks. >> listen to this. this is where we are in this democratic system. so this isn't a demonstration of democracy anymore. if donald trump wins what we are saying is it's a failure of democracy. what happens then? >> if hillary clinton wins you will perhaps have the fourth consecutive illegitimate presidency. the other party defines is presidency, bill clinton -- >> and the president of the united states said yesterday or the day before donald trump cannot be president. all of my opponents were acceptable. >> you don't think this is different? >> i think it may be different. what does that mean?

we are at a point that we says democracy doesn't work? >> thank you very much. his new piece is in the issue of the hollywood reporter. >> new numbers on jobs this morning plus nike's golf game is handicap by the economy. we'll explain what they were talking about and what he is talking about when we come back. ♪ only those who dare drive the world forward. introducing the first-ever cadillac ct6. nexium 24hfor their own#1 choice of docfrequent heartburn.s for complete protection all day and night

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don't you want me to read this? >> no. i'll read it. >> lean in. >> that's not what they mean by lean in. >> that was the classic nike golf ad featuring tiger woods father, earl woods. right now we'll get to that story. we have some real economy stuff, right before we get to tiger? >> reporter: yes. we learned that 3,000 more americans filed for unemployment

claims last week. you never know how to see that number go up. the total filings at 269,000 economists say points to steady job growth and not an alarming rate of firings. we'll get a better picture tomorrow for the month of july. economists are looking for an additional 170,000 jobs and for the unemployment rate to fall to 4.8%. global markets are in a bit of a celebration mode right now. that's thanks to the bank of england. they are taking all sorts of steps to fight the pain from brexit. they are adding stimulus. they are going all in and expecting no growth for the rest of the year and for the quarter. as for nike, nike is calling it quits on the golf equipment business. it is no longer going to be making golf balls, golf clubs and golf equipment. this is in part of tieg ager wo

and the fact that he never really recovered. sales of nike golf have been slipping in the past few years. they will still make clothes and shoes but it has been a broader theme. adidas will sell it completely. >> plus their sticks can't match. >> okay. thank you. up next, what if anything, did we learn today? trol with your brain, which controls your thumbs, which control this joystick. no, i'm actually over at the ge booth. we're creating the operating system for industry. it's called predix. it's gonna change the way the world works. ok, i'm telling my brain to tell the drone to get you a copy of my resume. umm, maybe keep your hands on the controller. look out!! ohhhhhhhhhh... you know what, i'm just gonna email it to you. yeah that's probably safer. ok, cool.

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time now to talk about what we learned today. i think i sound like a frog. what did you learn today? >> i don't think you sound like a frog. what did you learn? maine and up state new york are the most important places for donald trump to be spend k time. >> i learned i really want to see donald trump's tax returns and that we should be insisting upon them each and every day. all right. what about michael steele? >> michael wolfe was right, there are two americas out there for fall. it will be fascinating to see which one wins. >> okay. i will not say a word after we get off the air. i'll be back tomorrow morning.

thank you so much. stephanie picks up the coverage right now. have a great day everybody. /s hi. now mr. trump is firing back. >> i just want to tell you the campaign is doing really well. it has never been so well united. new this morning, was it ransom? >> what's going on in this country, how stupid are we? hillary clinton pushing back against allegations that the united states paid to free american prisoners! as far as i know it had nothing to do with any kind of hostage swap or any other