respect" on msnbc. communication director and msnbc political director rick tyler. and we'll have bob woodward with us. we'll talk about what we are about to show you. some foreign policy discussions that donald trump had at a rally yesterday. he was making some interesting claims about president obama. on the front page of "washington post." an article about a deep dive into his business dealings and how he struggles with the truth when he's doing business with people. but i have to say when it comes to talking about issues on stage whether it be about hillary clinton or president obama or about our national security, i think he struggles with reality. and he struggles with even seeming slightly legitimate as an intellect. as an intellectual.

he can't even bring words that make sense that do anything positive for his campaign. >> he shared some interesting light in florida. i didn't know this, that president obama was the founder of isis. >> let's show that because we have to. because it's the news. but it's really -- i don't even know what to say about this presidential election right now. i don't know where we're at right now that this is what's happening. at his rally in florida last night donald trump had this to say about president obama and isis. >> we unleashed fury all over the middle east. and it was a terrible mistake. and then obama came in and normally you want to clean up, he made a bigger mess out of it. in many respects, you know, they honor president obama. isis is honoring president obama.

he is the founder of isis. he's the founder of isis. okay. he's the founder. he founded isis. and i would say the co-founder would be crooked hillary clinton. co-founder. >> trump also questioned how much the administration knows about the situation in crimia. >> you know, recently they asked me a question about the ukraine and i said, wait a minute, crimia was taken during the obama. you know, we're talking about this tough regime. donald trump doesn't know. i think i know more than all of them because i have common sense. i have common sense. so you hear all of, oh, what would trump do with ukraine and what does he know about foreign policy and crimia. they didn't say that crimia was taken a long time ago.

and then they say, would you give it back? and if you say, no, they say you're weak. why was it let go. if you say yes you start world war iii. this was taken during the administration of barack hussein obama. >> wae were talking in the -- >> joining us now the "washington post" bob woodward. bob, i just wanted to get your analysis of the statements that i just played for our viewers. general michael hayden earlier on "morning joe" said donald trump is corrupting the conversation. corrupting it. madeline albright said he is already impacting in a negative way our national security. how do you characterize what you just heard? >> well, there's all this hyperbolic, ungenerous rhetoric and i think in our business what we have to do is stick to the facts and try to explain who

these people are, what they've really done. obviously, you have to cover the polls and the rallies. but i think people really want kind of the full portrait of the candidates and a lot of these stories are being done so you can make, not necessarily sense, but you will get solid, reliable information. and it is a campaign, obviously, that is not only running off the rails. it is off the rails. >> to that point, obviously, what he said is repulsive. willie you said something off camera that is so true. we are almost desensitized at that point. disqualified running for office at any other time. it is at the point. i wonder, also, we've seen trump as the winner and we've seen trump as -- if this continues to go south, how the things that will come out of his mouth kind of like nothing to lose, if you

will. you can't even imagine. but to your point, we're desensitizing it. >> we can't chalk it up, there he goes, again. the founder of isis. the mortal enemy of this country. donald talks about how bad chopping off heads and putting people in cages. it's not totally out of the blue. you remember after the attack, the horrible, horrible attack in orlando where 49 people were killed. he went on tv, donald trump, and said obama just doesn't get it, or maybe he gets it more than anyone understands. >> something is going on here. something is going on here. you know, herald and bob woodward. a long time ago, more than 20 years ago, 30 years ago. wrote an essay calling defining deviancy down. basically you get to the point that othu otherances are so sho

that they no longer shock. bob first and then herald. bob, you first because the role of the media in this. the coverage of donald trump. he says one outrageous thing after another. nearly every single day. are we playing it too loosely by branding it as just another campaign statement or should we be looking more and more at who this man really is on the stage, on the campaign stage as he just disassembles language in front of us? >> well, the campaign stage is part of it. but, for instance, there is a story that we have in "washington post" this morning about a deposition under oath that trump gave a number of years ago. 170 pages. and it shows that, you know, things are said that just are not true. are contradicted in a serious, i

mean, it's very clear. there is a lot of untruth here. that's what is important. the presidency entails equal librium. and you have to have somebody in there who can really measure things, look at information and assess what's true. now, i think it's got to be said this is not just about trump. a lot of the people who really are opposed to trump, i think, are engaged in some excessive rhetoric also. >> bob, to your point, mike. i'd pose the question to woodward, as well. donny said a few minutes ago, the worst two weeks he could have had, trump remains in the margin of error in two or three critical states. i guess the question i have for bob in your years, as well as your years of covering things, what does this say about the country that eight years ago we elected barack obama.

eight years later you have a nominee in donald trump that i don't recall two weeks and he remains in the margin of error in two or three battleground states. what does it say about us as a nation as a body politic that he's able to do this day after day and still seemingly be rewarded? >> go ahead, bob. >> i'm not sure how you fix it. you have to just take it day by day. but i want to underscore the reaction to trump has become hyperbolic, also. "new york times" columnist tom friedman yesterday talked about trump and he doesn't like trump. and at one point he said he's a disgusting human being. reasonable opinion. but then he went on to say that trump's children should be ashamed of him. now, for 40 plus years looking at politics, i've never, at

least i can't recall an example where somebody said the zone of protection provided by the children. let's take that down. and let's get the children in here to denounce and be ashamed of their father. that makes no sense. so, the excess is feeding both sides on this. >> and, also, i agree with you, bob, on that point about tom friedman's column and including trump's children. that's, you know -- >> over the line. >> but when you factor in what's happened in american politics over the last 20 years, you basically had the clinton administration. an element of it being deemed ilegitimate by one party. and that transferred itself into the george w. bush administration. an element of it being deemed ilegitimate by the other

political party. the obama administration. was he born in america? the thing that trump starts. and today this is where we are. you add to that the combustible elements of social media today where everyone has a voice. largely negative. >> yep. >> largely anonymous and the fuel is there for just democratic process. >> that's the one. i actually think that this built-in rage is going to be something that we live with from here on in because the voices come from here and they don't come from there. >> fully understand and we talked about this a lot. why he's here. trump connected. trump connected from the get go before anyone could see him connecting for some reason. but he has not risen up and he has not risen to the occasion. in fact, he has corrupted the occasion. >> you know, mika, one quick thing. in an odd way willie geist right

here defined what trump means many, many months ago when you factor in what happened in 2008, the winter of 2007/2008. people losing jobs, homes, incomes, hope. willie said, here's donald trump basically giving a big middle finger to the establishment around all of these people and all of us. and that clicked. >> on both sides of the aisle, for sure. it did click. but he hasn't risen up. he has actually lowered the bar in a way that i've never seen in my lifetime. here's a problem. there's a problem on the democratic side, as well. e-mails from hillary clinton's state department staff are, once again, putting her family's foundation in the spotlight. nbc kristen welker has the details. >> reporter: e-mailed raising fresh questions between the clinton family foundation and secretary clinton's state department. one dated 2009.

a clinton foundation executive e-mailed secretary clinton's top advisors huma abedin and sheena mills suggesting they set up a meeting between a billionaire donor and the u.s. ambassador to lebanon. this is very important, he said. critics have pounced on donations questioning whether that bought donors access to the state department. >> it's called pay for play. >> reporter: last year bill clinton defending the foundation to cynthia mcfadden. >> we have never done anything inappropriate to influence any kind of government. >> reporter: these new e-mails don't relate to the foundation's work and the donor never met with the ambassador. >> so, bob woodward, "wall street journal" has an editorial today saying that hillary clinton has left herself wide open for an october surprise. from what has been uncovered so far and from the answers that

she has provided so far, how realistic is the possibility of an october surprise or some sort of damming revelation? >> well, it may come in september or this month in august. if you talk to anybody in the security business, talk to somebody in the white house recently who knows the reality. everything is had. there is no security. and, so, it's not just e-mails from the dnc or the private server that hillary clinton had. it is everywhere. and, so, if you want to project out the people who have this. the russians, the chinese, can kind of deal it out in a way that could be quite damaging, not just to the political

climate and the candidates, but to the security of the country. there is no security. >> no. i understand that. i understand more will come out. what i'm asking you and it's a tough question. i have my kind of point of view about it, but is this a campaign and a candidate that is confident that nothing is going to be revealed that could be extremely damaging? >> well, look what the fbi director comey said. that they found thousands, not hundreds, but thousands of e-mails that were not turned over in all of this process. that some of these involved e-mail chains. top secret special access programs. these are real secrets. these are the kinds of secrets that normally do not come out in the media. so, it's a ticking time bomb. there's no question about that.

i don't think anyone knows. and you talk to the security experts and they say the people who are hacking this, in some cases, are so good they leave no fingerprints and no trails so you don't know whether you've lost these e-mails or the material. >> mike barnicle. >> bob, to your point about there being no security. i heard the same thing. you get state department e-mails hacked and pentagon e-mails hacked. why is it in this day in age large financial institutions and large corporations in america have better security walls than the federal government does? do you know the answer to that? >> i mean, in part, it's because the banks and the financial institutions have to have absolute security. but, again, you look at this and i'm not sure they do. and, so, what's happened here

with the internet. we've accelerated into this new world. where everyone you walk down the street and everyone staring into a smartphone and we have not followed up with the security. now, you talk to the people, i'm not sure that you can fix it. >> there's going to be more e-mails. i think that's clear. the security is very loose. i'm asking a question that i don't think people are comfortable answering. i could be wrong. is this a campaign and a candidate that is confident that no matter what comes out, they're good. can anyone say yes? >> we don't know the answer to that. >> but you've seen from the campaign and the candidate -- >> i don't think there is anything that is going to come out from the candidate showing she did something with the cgi to influence policy. could there be e-mails from staffers to staffers? i don't know. i don't know the answer to that. i feel confident that she didn't

send an e-mail saying i will do something if this person does this on behalf of policy. >> given all these stories and all this news that swirls around hillary clinton, i talked to republican every day who are just frustrated with the candidate they have because they believe in hillary clinton they have someone who was so eminently beatable a ablable an trump is not -- >> it would be wonderful if, be quiet for three days. don't give the press anything to cover and see if they can cover this. we have tens of thousands of e-mails now that have been handed over from the fbi. the ones that you didn't release to the state department and the state department is dragging their feet. we have foya. freedom of information. information before the election. maybe not up to the state department, maybe up to a judge. it is hard to believe what we've seen already that there isn't more in these e-mails.

>> being quiet for three days isn't going to do it and, secondly, he doesn't have the capacity to use whatever might come out in a productive way because he has so damaged, destroyed his credibility with ridiculous, stupid, unhinged and even dangerous statements. so, anything he did right now is not really going to work and he doesn't have surrogates who are credible enough to launch an attack that could really hurt his opponent. there is nothing there. there is nothing there. there is absolutely nothing behind the curtain and it's too late to fix that. and, yes, this was a beatable candidate. thankfully. i think that the only, i think weak spot that hillary clinton has right now is this e-mail situation. >> i don't disagree with you. i am saying you asked me a question can she be confident? >> she doesn't seem confident, that is what worries me. if something comes out along the

lines that you are suggesting it is hugely damaging. >> but it won't be out of donald trump's mouth. that's for sure. >> i still think untruthful does not trump unstable. and i still think that unless it's so -- one quid pro quo e-mail comes out versus a primal instinct if you can continue to frame trump that he's scary and he xaent hacan't have the nucle. >> he doesn't need to be framed. he does well by himself showing that. >> then you go to call joe biden time. >> rick tyler, thank you so much. still ahead on "morning joe" hallie jackson with a live report from battleground, florida. donald trump made the cover of "time" magazine yet again. but this time i don't think he's going to like it. we'll reveal the new cover story ahead. if you're in new york city this evening stop by prohibition for a little "morning joe"

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all right. joining us now from kissimmee, florida, the great hallie jackson. good tasee yo see you, my frien. >> thanks, will. donald trump tonight will be here at the arena for a rally. but before that he is going to speak to a group of pastors outside orlando and this is a move that has put him under fire concerned about the group and concerned about donald trump's presence there. we do expect to see donald trump on the attack. this is something he has been doing, obviously, for weeks now. he is escalating his hits against hillary clinton, as well. interestingly, one thing we'll watch for is who will be in attendance, as we always do. what raised eyebrows last night was someone sitting directly behind him in view of trump for the entire hour-long rally.

disgraced congressman mark foley right there. he is a trump supporter. he has been friends for trump for 30 years or so. trump at one point called out the people behind him. this raised eyebrows because trump was talking about hillary clinton and the father of the orlando nightclub shooter attending one of her rallies in florida. listen. >> wasn't it terrible when the father of the animal that killed the wonderful people in orlando was sitting with a big smile on his face right behind hillary clinton. and, by the way, including a lot of the people here, how many of you people know me? a lot of you people know me. when you get those seats, you sort of know the campaign. so, when she said, well, we

didn't know. we knew, he knew. how did you like that picture? >> and those of you with eagle eyes probably noticed foley sitting there behind trump in that shot. we should note that the clinton campaign official has told nbc news that clinton's team did not know that the father of the shooter was going to be in attendance at this open event nor aware of his attendance until afterwards, by the way. busy day in battleground, florida. one thing we'll look at is when and how and when he addresses zika. a major issue down in south florida. this is something trump simply has not talked about much other than governor scott for his actions on the crisis. guys? >> despite the week that donald trump had still doing pretty darn well in the polls in florida. joining us from washington zik miller here to reveal this week's cover story titled simply

"meltdown." quite a piece of art on the cover. >> this is here to capture this incredible moment in american politics. certainly this campaign. the 2 1/2 weeks now since the republican national convention where donald trump has through largely fault of his own put his campaign in preparedness condition. had he spent his last two and a half weeks, he might be neck and neck with hillary clinton. that is certainly not the case nationally. >> i'm reading your interview to accompany this cover story. he's not going to love the cover but inside an interview. you ask him about the polls. what happened in the last couple weeks and he said effectively the polls are wrong about me. i'm getting huge crowds. >> you know, this is, we heard this from donald trump all through the republican primary. the primaries, as well. he is talking about the crowds are there, people are there. i'm feeling something that the polls aren't capturing and certain the republican primary he ended up being right.

he was right in the polls in a lot of cases underestimated his support. but we're talking about a general electorate and things are very different with more people voting and more diverse electorate and donald trump has yet to fully cal praibratcalibr. should he be trying to act more presidential. >> donny, "time" does a great job of doing a timeline of his unforced errors. many of them are things that he then lies or back tracks about or tries to, you know, from john mccain to megyn kelly to the racist retweets which he says weren't his to mocking a disabled reporter, which he says he wasn't doing to attacking the kahn family. that is pretty -- >> claiming ignorance about the kkk and david duke. there appears to be maybe no

fallout on each event on itself, but i do think now if something happened with hillary clinton, he has no capacity, no credibility to go after it because it's almost clown-like. >> everything you mentioned. it's interesting. an advertising term where there is basically the brand positioning. his brand positioning right now as far as the public goes right now is basically untruthful, unsafe. all the things you wrote brand support points. so, basically going forward, you have -- they don't go away. forget the cycle that he says outrageous things and the media gets outraged and he back tracks. going forward, every message that hillary clinton will pull out will have some collection of those, what i call support points. there are seven or eight explicitly insane, repulsive things that he said and done that will be in every message from here on out.

he does a new one -- let's assa -- those brand support points make it almost impossible for him to climb out. >> speaking of brand while we're on topic and go back to the campaign. how is his brand looking now? look at this cover. >> the thing i said, also, everyone talks about intervention with him. what donald cares about more than anything else is his business and his pocket. >> how is that? >> basically if i was intervention, guess what, your audience who you're speaking to, those 40% most of them are uneducated and not incredibly wealthy people. the ed the educated, wealthy people will not want to move into trump buildings any more. his name itself is worth $3 billion. i could argue that that name has gone down a lot and that is the way, frankly, you get him to stop. at the end of this, that name is going to be worth a lot less.

>> willie? >> any indication in your interview with donald trump for this cover story that he feels there was a problem over the last couple of weeks and he needs to recover to get back in this race a little bit or he likes where he is. >> he did admit he was four, five points down the polls and maybe understating. that seems to be the only admission from him. what was interesting he did acknowledge he's not sure should he be attacking more or not? he has been trying to be better and maybe go back to where he was in the primaries and constantly going after hillary clinton and after other republicans. so, he seemed unsettled. so, it was not that he -- he wouldn't acknowledge a lot of the faults in the last couple of weeks, but there is a different tone from him than we experienced. >> see, speaking of tone. we have seen how trump performs when he is a winner. we see how trump performs when he's in the game. what if this continues to go south and he has nothing to lose. can you speculate on the kind of

things that come out of his mouth. right now he has something to lose and he does these outrageous, self-destructive things. october 15 and he's down 16 points and there's no chance. can you imagine and what is going to come out of his mouth at that point? >> he will be lashing out each and every day. >> our level of -- we haven't seen that. >> without care of the country. >> right now he's fighting for something and he does have something to lose. >> what's he fighting for, do you think? >> legitimacy. >> to win. to win. winners. >> i don't know how you outdo calling the president -- >> he is running for office and he has a chance. imagine when he has no chance. >> zeke, miller, thank you very much. it's entitled "meltdown." still ahead a wild scene outside trump tower yesterday after a man scaled more than 20 stories up the building. >> he's okay. >> saying he had a message for

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i'm hillary clinton, and i approve this message. michael hayden: if he governs consistent with some of the things he said as a candidate, i would be very frightened. gillian turner: he's been talking about the option of using a nuclear weapon against our western european allies. max boot: this is not somebody who should be handed the nuclear codes. charles krauthammer: you have to ask yourself, do i want a person of that temperament controlling the nuclear codes? and as of now, i'd have to say no. [bill o'reilly sighs] and as of now, i'd have to say no. when a moment spontaneously turns romantic, why pause to take a pill? or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction and the urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines,

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>> everybody came to my defense because there was nothing said wrong. i am talking about the power of the voter. nothing was said wrong and only the haters tried to grab on to that one and it was very unsuccessful. we are talking about it has tremendous support and tremendous power at the voting booth and that was all, that was all. as far as mr. kahn, i think it's

been said by everybody. i think that has been very well talked about and that has bipartisan put to bed a long time ago. >> do you agree with your friend carl icahn that you made a mistake? >> you'll have to define what a mistake means. we're not here to talk about that. we're here to talk about economics and we're here to talk about finance and we're here to talk about our infrastructure. but it has been put to bed for a long time and i don't think there is any reason for you to reopen it. so, everybody came to his defense, he says. who's everybody? rudy giuliani? >> i missed that one. that is the problem with the campaign on top of the candidate himself who is really, i have no words to describe how. i think general hayden has the greatest analysis. he's corrupting the conversation. he's corrupting the conversation. >> put to bed. it's never put to bed. >> you don't make an

assassination joke. >> you don't defame a gold star family. that never gets put to bed. that's his problem. >> just because you say it's been put to bed. at this point, you don't have the credibility to say it's been put to bed. you just have lost it all. there's nothing anyone believes that you say any more. and that includes the dishonest media who is covering this story every day because you are the republican nominee. you are saying things that are dangerous and untrue and not taking responsibility for them and you are appearing in a way that is causing us to ask a lot of questions. >> he's back in a media corner, also. we also know in the primaries and general election, he was everywhere. basically he's just now on fox now because it's unsafe for him to go anywhere else. >> he went to cnbc. >> he was on cnbc. >> i'm saying in general, though, i think we did a study that 97% of the impressions were

fox because he's boxed himself in. he is afraid to go most places now because this is where he is going to be at. he's got his rallies, but his media, if you will, band width is much smaller. and, also, the media all along needed donald trump. whether they liked him or not, you couldn't be iced out. what a lot of the media realized now is, you know what, they'll do the numbers by bash him. and kind of a whole media game. >> when we were being accused of being supporters and having him on the show and asking him really tough questions every step of the way and also saying what was true was that he had the potential to win the republican nomination. when he called in and joe and i, we looked, the ratings weren't that great. they flatlined. people were sort of getting really tired of hearing him go on and on about nothing and they

couldn't follow, at least our viewers. maybe even turned off by it. we have a certain kind of viewer. we didn't get, we didn't need him. >> the second sexiest story in the media is when you're taking somebody out and the first sexiest stosetory is when you're taking them. the media, by nature, i think, does lean a little left and higher educated, more liberal. they were going along for the ride because they had to and then something else is kicking in now and all of that is what is happening and backing into a media corner. >> so incredible as what he had. what he had on the road to the nomination. he had his finger on the pulse of where a lot of american people are right now. where the middle class are right now. how they feel about washington. how they feel about their futures. how they feel about the system being rigged. he had, he had -- >> i said on this show, i thought he was going to win. i really, really did. the playbook was very simple.

ronald reagan and give some compelling speeches and make people feel a certain way and stay focused on the six talking points against hillary clinton. done. >> we cover them because we had to in the primary. wasn't had to, it was an incredible story. a guy who has never been in politics before. >> connecting. >> i don't mean had to. but it was a drug that you basically, if you didn't play by his rules, he wasn't going to go on your show. kind of just a built-in going to keep him up because if he went at him in the wrong way. that is going to be bad for your business. >> one other things, herald, i'm sorry about this off air. let's be careful about talking this race in the past tense. it is august 11th, hillary clinton is not a popular candidate and there are three months left. >> the most watched television show and sports broadcast in history will be their first debate. >> you will be watching an nfl

game. i'll switch 20 minutes into it. up next, as goes wisconsin, so goes the republican party. paul ryan crushed his opponent there who happened to share a lot with donald trump. we'll ask congressman sean duffy if that state battle has national implications. "morning joe" is coming right back. both on the track and thousands of miles away. with the help of at&t, red bull racing can share critical information about every inch of the car from virtually anywhere. brakes are getting warm. confirmed, daniel you need to cool your brakes. understood, brake bias back 2 clicks. giving them the agility to have speed & precision. because no one knows & like at&t. now? excuse me. again? be right back. always running to the bathroom because your bladder is calling the shots?

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at ally bank, no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like bill splitting equals nitpicking. but i only had a salad. it was a buffalo chicken salad. salad. >> republicans who are willing to stand up and say donald trump doesn't represent their values. not only as republicans, but as americans. i have to tell you, i feel that same sense of responsibility. we may not agree on everything, but this is not a normal election. that was hillary clinton in iowa where recent polls show her with a four-point advantage. the clinton campaign is stepping up efforts to expand the map and

court gop voters. tim kaine campand in louisiana last night and in texas yesterday and tuesday. clinton has also written a new op-ed for newspaper published by the church of jesus christ of latter day saints in salt lake city, utah. the historically red state has been resistant to trump's candidacy. the op-ed is entitled what i have in common with utah leaders, religious freedom and the constitution. in it, she explains the importance of religious tolerance writing in part this. it's easy to forget that trump showed us his true colors early on when he proposed banning all muslims from our shores. to this day, i wonder if he even understands the implications of his proposal. meanwhile, two polls in pennsylvania showed clinton up 10% over donald trump the day before. clinton is leading trump in philadelphia and surrounding suburbs while trump excels in western parts of pennsylvania.

the new marquette university law school shows hillary clinton over the 50% mark. that reflects an 11-point swing since july. joining us now from wisconsin, republican congressman sean duffy. he original backed marco rubio in the race and now supports his party's nominee. shawn, welcome back to the show. thank you for being on. >> hey. good to see you, mika. thanks for having me on. >> i just have to ask, how can you support this nominee? >> well, i think the point here, mika, two choices. one is donald trump and one is hillary clinton. i love your show and i heard all the cloth ripping from everyone who appears which is, yeah, you can point out some things about donald trump. maybe not the most articulate. but when i look at hillary clinton, what is the alternative? we talk about who is dangerous. donald trump has said a few words but hillary clinton in her actions whether you look at the

reset with russia and the e-mail scandal and anyone who has a shoe string budget to spy on america. the fact that she -- we have a right to these e-mails that are hers that are on her server. she hasn't disclosed them and now we see this pay for play. she's been an other disaster with regard to foreign policy. i have a businessman who knows how to create jobs and knows the impacts of rules and regulations on our economy. hillary clinton wants more taxes, more rules, more regulation and bring us more in line with the socialist state as opposed to the traditional american free enterprise system. those are all really big issues that i think are meaningful. when you even talk about the comment that donald trump made about the second amendment supporters. >> the assassination joke. >> donald trump says what he means. you know this, he says what he means. >> so he meant it. what are you talking about? shawn -- >> he didn't say it.

mika, he didn't say it. the point is, he truly was inspiring people to come out and get activated in this election. i know on your show people say, oh, my gosh, he was calling for assassination. >> he was joking about assassination. but he didn't say that and he didn't mean that. and people in middle america don't take your read on what he said. they see what i see, which is he is at a political rally and talking about second amendment supporters being concerned about the courts and being politically activated. >> i disagree. >> congressman, willie geist. i want to start with that poll we just showed in the home state of wisconsin. why has donald trump dropped behind 15 points now? >> i think a few things going on. number one, she has a post-convention bump going on. the fight donald trump has had with paul ryan who is loved in our state. those things have all been a drag with the republican base for donald trump. we're still in the haze of summer. but i would just note that mike pence is going to be in

wisconsin today. donald trump is coming back next week. they see that these numbers are soft and wisconsin can make up these numbers once we get past labor day and we get more focused on this campaign. listen, as you made this point, this election is far from over. if donald trump can get more scripted, can be more on point and talk about security and safety and better paying jobs, he is a winner because people who have seen hillary clinton, they don't like her. but they want an alternative that will help lead the country forward. if there's still time for donald. stay on script. don't go off script. read your teleprompter. >> you led me to my next question, congressman. yesterday at a rally, donald trump made a comment about isis and this morning followed up on cnbc. >> do you think it's appropriate to call the sitting president of the united states the founder of a terrorist organization that wants to kill americans? >> he was the founder of isis,

absolutely. the way he removed our troops, but he was the founder. absolutely the founder. in fact, he gets in sports they have awards. he gets the most valuable player award. him and hillary. she gets it, too. >> do you agree, congressman, that the president of the united states is the founder of isis? >> what i do agree with is when award. >> when isis was in its he did nothing to we rat kate e kate i. we could have crushed these folks years ago -- >> is the president in lead with isis? >> when we are there rallies, you know, things get a little animated. the point he is making the obama let them grow. obama-clinton foreign policy allowed this to take root and

kill a lot of people. we have little girls being sold into sexslavery. >> we all know that but do you believe -- >> let me ask you do you believe barack obama could have crushed them three years ago -- >> that's policy argument against president obama but donald trump said he is the founder of isis, do you agree with that, congressman? yes or no? >> did he found it? is he one of the guys on the ground, no. did he let it become what they are today? absolutely. if barack obama and hillary clinton had not diced this out years ago you wouldn't have this movement to take up arms and shoot innocent people. you would not have had orlando if you didn't have isis to inspire the shooter.

>> isn't it frustrating that donald trump can't make the case the way you made the case. some of the policies of president obama in libya and syria and those of hillary clinton lead but not that they are founders. you go out and say something like that -- >> it kwcorrupts it. >> it makes the point, what kind of leadership do you want? do you want someone that will allow this kacancer to grow or someone to snuff it out. i think it speaks powerfully to mitd l america who wants to

address this threat. i think the problem that we have here is donald trump has to be far for scripted because the -- >> congressman, we are not splicing and diciing assassination jokes. >> we are not slicing and dicing that. >> a lot of people heard the same comment and came to a different conclusion. my point is he has to be better. if you want to give an economic speech you can let that speech breathe and people can talk about the ideas and how to grow in the economy. you don't step on your message and don't get it out to the american people. that's one of the problems that trump has. >> we have to leave it there. i'm sorry but i don't think your candidate will get better. i appreciate you being on the show.

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still ahead. donald trump in a rally. i think it's important to say i think this is worse than the assassination joke, which was the lowest of the low. i thought we hit rock bottom but we haven't.

calling the president the founder of isis and double downing on it moments ago on cnbc. we'll bring in jen michael hayden. hillary clinton says she is confident her e-mails were secure but top is it a fastaffe so sure. we are digging into the details. we'll be right back. [announcer] is it a force of nature? or a sales event? the summer of audi sales event is here. get up to a $5,000 bonus on select audi models.

i'm hillary clinton, and i approve this message. michael hayden: if he governs consistent with some of the things he said as a candidate, i would be very frightened. gillian turner: he's been talking about the option of using a nuclear weapon against our western european allies. max boot: this is not somebody who should be handed the nuclear codes. charles krauthammer: you have to ask yourself, do i want a person of that temperament controlling the nuclear codes? and as of now, i'd have to say no. [bill o'reilly sighs]

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i'm speechless because i'm try to go follow your logic here. >> good morning everyone. welcome to "morning joe." joe has the morning off. we have legendary msnbc, make barnicle. former democratic congressman herald ford jr. and also donnie. >> lewd. >> lewd. >> lewd. >> very lewd. >> who is filling in as cohost this week and next. what are they thinking airing at

6:00 p.m. on msnbc. you're on every night. >> tom green turned it down. >> no. >> i'm going to watch to see what happens. something bad will happen. also with us, former ted cruz communications, rick tyler joins us. okay. our lead story. it looks like a hack of top democratic officials is wider than previously recorded. more than 100 party leaders and groups. we initially learned that the dnc and the party's congressional arm were impacted. now it seems the hacking extended. the democrats involved in the investigation and personal accounts of clinton campaign

officials and party operatives are said to have been targeted. they confident russian intelligence hacked the dnc. you'll recall debbie wasserman schultz resigned on the eve of her party's convention. e-mails from hillary clinton's state department staff are once again putting her family's foundation in the spotlight. here is kristen welker with details. >> reporter: raising questions between secretary's clinton state department. a clinton phone case executive e-mailed clinton's top advise sores, requesting they set up a meeting between a billionaire

donor. this is very important he said. critics have bounced on foreign donations to the foundation, questioning whether it bought access to the state department. >> it is called pay for play. >> reporter: last year bill clinton defending the phone case to mcfadden. >> we have never done anything knowingly inappropriate to influence any kind of american government policy. >> saying they don't relate to the foundation's work and the donor never met with the ambassador. >> the trump campaign accused the clintonsover accepting money for access. >> now there's more e-mails that have come to light today that seem to provide direct evidence that favors were done by foreign contributors to the clinton foundation by officials at the state department. you know, it's the old pay to

play system, the american people are sick and tired of and donald trump and i will bring it to a crashing end. >> today we had a very very big thing going on all over this country and it's called pay for play. you saw this. new e-mails come out. new e-mails. how do you think hillary would feel if e-mails were never invented? would she be happy? that's like a truth serum. truth serum. maybe there's more to come. maybe there's more to come. pay for play. you're not allowed to do it. it's illegal. it's illegal and i would man other things will be coming down the pike. let's see what happens. >> that's the big question there but just a little small par

paraphernal -- i'm not sure it's that great coming from him but i think the bigger question is what's going to come out and could something big come out? could we have some sort of implosi implosion? is there something lurking there? can you say they don't have something lurking here that can bring down their campaign? >> i haven't seen any e-mails that suggest -- >> this worries me. >> we'll have to wait and see. that's the only thing i agree with donald trump in that statement. i hope he is not encouraging more hacking as he did a few weeks back when he urged russians that they would be rewarded by the american press but i have to reason to believe

anyone in the clinton foundation did anything improper and if somebody comes out we'll have to deal with it. >> and we have no reason not to believe. she hasn't -- on this issue, i think it's -- i mean i'll say it from my perspective, it doesn't feel like she has been completely honest. her answers don't seem comfortable at all. they seem very edgey and propertyi prodding and coaching to get around something. it is froeprobably to wind thei reach to either help people or boost their own personal fortune. >> i want to pick up the wort dishonest. we take the stories from the last two days, the trump assassination and hillary's e-mails. it's either untruthful or

dangerous. more support points on either brand. >> but is there something else? >> there would have to be something very sexy and explicit and sound biting. the difference is the average person at home would go did he actually suggest -- >> right. >> besides foundation and i lean back. >> it may be nothing. >> so both of them were proof points. the difference is trump's is very very very sexy. i don't know if that's the right word. >> it's clear. >> i don't know if that's the right word. >> see if you agree with me, that the clinton -- we could have revealed -- e-mails could be revealed basically saying the clinton foundation will arrange for the king of sweden by rhode

island and the trump campaign couldn't get off a dime to go after it they are so incompetent. >> donald trump tried yesterday. any other republican campaign would be red meat. it has been overshadowed. i think what you have to find is a donor influencing united states policy through the state department. the one we saw yesterday was a billionaire being introduced to the ambassador and not directly through secretary clinton. it doesn't mean there's not more in there. >> and we have to find a -- >> and we haven't seen that. i mean you consid-- >> yeah, you got the name of the ambassador. donald trump is deanying reports

which many interpreted as a call for service. trump denied a meeting had taken place and they said the secret service did not formally speak to the trump campaign about his comment. he made up story by cnn, a hoax, totally dishonest. >> everybody was there. rudy giuliani was there. he defended it this morning and said it was absolutely fine. what we are talking about is political power. t you look at the power they have in terms of votes and that's

what i was referring to. obviously that's what i was referring to. >> i would actually say that the media is almost as crooked as crooked hillary clinton. i mean that. i mean look at the way they covered that story yesterday. was that disgusting? was that disgusting? and by the way, we have our second amendment. we need our second amendment protected. >> words can have tremendous consequences. yesterday we witnessed the latest in a long line that crossed the line. his casual cruelty to a gold star family, his casual mention

that more countries should have nuclear weapons and now his casual inciting of violence. every single one of these incidents shows us donald trump simply does not have the temperament to be president and commander in chief of the united states. >> so this is the kind of story that worked for the united states. >> i would agree on the gold star comment. the second amendment supporters and gun owners don't view ourselves because we like to incite violence. we protect our families from being victims of violence. the reason trump is from a political practitioners point of

view is because he has incited violence in the past. they exploited it and that's all everybody is talking about. by the way. this story the stepping on what i think is a very big story and a very clear lie is the clinton foundation and the foundation were very closely tied together. when barack obama wanted hillary clinton or asked her to be the secretary of state the foreign relations committee said that's lot of conflict of interest. they said don't worry. it won't be a problem. as soon as she is in the state department right away you see this e-mail coming from the clinton add minute -- from the clinton foundation to the secretary of state's office of sheryl mills saying look, we need to help this big donor out. it stinks to high heaven.

still ahead, donald trump tries to clear the air about what happened. he lays the creation of isis at the feet of president obama. more with michael hayden is ahead. plus as the u.s. bombs the islamic state and libya we have a look back at the times when it carried real hope. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ isaac hou has mastered gravity defying moves to amaze his audience. great show. here you go. now he's added a new routine. making depositing a check seem so effortless.

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donald trump took on president obama and his foreign policy. >> we unleashed fury all over the middle east. it was a terrible mistake and

then obama came in and normally you want to clean up. he made a bigger mess out of it. in many respects you know they honor president obama. isis is honoring president obama. he is the founder of isis. he is the founder of isis, okay? he is the founder. he founded isis. and i would say the cofounder would be crooked hillary clin n clinton. >> do you think it's appropriate to call him the founder of a terrorist organization that wants to kill americans? >> he was the founder of isis, absolutely. the way he removed our troops but he was the founder, absolutely the founder. in fact he get -- in sports they have awards. he gets the most valuable player

award. he and hillary. >> take that comment in a vacuum. imagine any other had said that. that comment alone, which is part of the fire hose of comments that we get from donald trump is astounding. our main opposition in the world at this point, a group that's chopping off heads, that our president is the founder of that group. the problem again here is that's case to be made against president obama and secretary clinton. they got out of iraq too soon. they broke libya, didn't put it back together. when you say something like that it over shadows the case that it is. >> helping us out former director and retired general michael hayden. he is one of 50 top national security officials who signed an open letter declaring they would

not vote for donald trump. albright argues he is already doing that right now. i'm just wondering, even just hearing the comments, how would you characterized this candidate's abilities in keeping this nation safe? >> choosing those words corrupts the dialogue, corrupts what should be a very serious dialogue. i mean the action to the obama administration and going to zero, we talked about this on previous shows. it then became isis. there is a very powerful case to be made. but when mr. trump uses this language to make that case two of three things happen. number one, he inflames the

debate. we don't need the flame. we need cold rational discussion. he insults his audience. he goes to code words to make a fairly valid point. does he not think that his audience could not accept the slightly more complex, the slightly more reasoned message this this president made serious mistakes that lead to the creation of isis? >> i think it looks like the audience is loving it. >> well, perhaps for the moment. but again, a president should be appealing to the better angels of our nation. >> general, both candidates are scheduled. i don't me if they go -- i don't

know whether it occurred or scheduled to occur. are you -- is there any level of discomfort with you having lead the nsa and sat there with the president of the united states that looks at the full daily briefing knowing that donald trump will be receiving a partial brief? >> well, make, i guess a little bit. the process is the process. i'm not concern i'm not concerned much about any briefings that they will get between now and the actual election. there will be generalized discussions. as i pointed out before on that wednesday morning after the election one of these two people are going to get the book. they will get the one that

president obama gets on that wednesday morning as well. let me give you another concern. not that mr. trump might blurt something out but the political penalties would be very severe. i'm more concerned about something maybe a little more subtle. mr. trump has a habit of saying i heard people say i know. i think we all treat it with more than one grain of salt but will he have more legitimacy when he makes those kinds of statements? will many americans now assume, oh, he must have been told that in that session. my assumption is he is making it up. >> when he says some of the things he said we are often asked to blow them off. a lot of people said he is making a joke. he says the founder of isis, i'm

sure he'll blow past that as well. can you speak to the importance of rhetoric, of how they are heard around the world? >> it is incredibly critical. there are multiple audiences when a president or someone who might be president speaks. the american public, our friends, our adversaries are all looking for messages inside those broad comments. and so when you're imprecise or inconsistent or inaccurate it confuses everyone and it temps those who would oppose us and it scares the daylights out of those who are our friends. it has consequences during the campaign. you don't have to wait until post election. >> given the grave analysis of this candidate, i now want to talk about the potential for hillary clinton's campaign to run into some trouble here.

i will just sort of read short notes here out of the wall street journal. mrs. clinton didn't turn over e-mails. that excuse becomes more doubtful with each new e-mail discovery. if the e-mails do about handling official state business that have left her open for an october surprise. how worried are you that this election could be turned upside down because of that issue? >> well, i mean it's a serious concern as well. you may have noticed in that letter none of us endorsed secretary clinton in the letter. it points out a lot of us would not be voting for secretary clinton despite our discomfort with mr. trump. the secretary had two years to

prepare for chris wallace's question post director comey's investigation. she gets asked the obvious question and gives an answer that earns her four pinochios the next day. i have a question about confidence in answering what would have been an obvious question. >> so you have two that you have serious concerns about? >> i do. a lot of us have been identified in the letter as republicans. a lot of us don't have a strong political identity. i would not label myself as a republican. we simply have served in a republican administration. it is a fairly apolitical message with an apolitical message. >> that's a good point. where does that leave you in the

voting booth? >> it leaves me perhaps skipping the article two question at the top of the ballot and paying a lot of attention to the article one question. and coming up the ceo of delta apologizes after a disaster that left three days of damage. "morning joe" continues. running for president means

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if you go by the evidence there is no evidence that the system was breached or hacked successfully. i think what's important here is follow the evidence and there is no evidence. that can't be said about a lot of other systems including government systems. welcome lack to "morning joe." no clear evidence hillary clinton's private e-mail was hacked. her team was concerned about the possibility of it happening. joining us now is josh. aids to hillary clinton worried ability the potential impact on her private e-mail sam after a hacker gained access to the

e-mail account in early 2013. mills discussed the issue with brian pagliano, a tech specialist who worked both at the state department and for the clinto clintons. also autumn is here. good to have you back on the show. mr. pagliano actually got immunity. isn't he someone we can't get anymore information from? >> that's right. he took the fifth amendment. he initially took the fifth

amendment with the fbi too but spoke to them through the immunity deal. he is who we believe is the prime player in handling security and setting it up in several of the iterations. >> if they were concerned, what? >> i conclude they were worried about some of the kurdiissues surrounding her server. hillary clinton was no longer secretary of state. it kind of goes back to this original sin of having put the information thon private server. she wasn't secretary of state. sheryl mills wasn't working at the state department. the concern was whether somebody might possibly breach her server. they took at least one significant step when they hack came out which was that they changed hillary clinton's secret e-mail address which is being broadcast to the world at this

world. >> we asked serious questions about this. when you hear and read about it how do you think it translates to voters and to the public? >> for one thing i just want to say the idea that they were concerned isn't concerned to me. they should have been concerned. it would have been weirder if they took no steps what so ever and were going on their way. i do think what josh says is what concerns me most about the situation and what speaks to her general reputation which is this pair no, i ya that leads to the clinton team that makes them look more paranoid. i think, you know, she has a history, the more that comes out about this the harder it is for her to untangle herself in from

this. i do think there are more significant concerns. >> you back up and you look at the big picture and look at the fact that she served in a senate. she served as secretary of state. she has been working in politics and serving for her entire lifetime and if you pull video and articles about her and things that she has written from 20 or 30 years ago it's the same thing you're saying now. she knows how to govern at least! she understand what is government does. >> she understand what the government does. >> donald trump should be g getting 101 lessons on how a bill becomes a law. >> and this is more of the same. it is baked in at this point. there is something funky we mails. unless there is a really

explicit, okay. hillary clinton, because of favors effected her role as secretary of state of judgment. other than that, isn't it more of the same? >> i think you're right. i think people who are so concerned about this are already off the bandwagon. i doubt we'll see anything terribly explicit. it seems like what they do rightly or wrongly. what's a little odd is it seems some times they are doing things. even that's not extraordinary. they some times encourage people to make donations for reasons that might not seem totally clean or legitimate. i agree, the people that are most worry about this probably

left the clinton bandwagon a long time ago. >> you write about aids raised about the private server after she left the state department. was there not anyone in her orbit or her own instincts that said while she was secretary of state that this was probably a bad idea? >> there were a couple of times we see, there were concerned when her system would go down. at one point her aids took it offline completely. they thought there might be an attempt to hack it. he thought it would have been more secure for clinton to be using a g mail account because you have a company and a lot of employees that were working 24/7 on keeping their systems secure. here you had a server sitting at the clinton's home. so there's no question more

flags should have been raised. as clinton pointed out, we know for a fact that the official state department e-mail system was repeatedly hacked by the russia russians, the same people folks think are responsible for the current set of democratic hacks. it's hard to say what would have been better here. >> thank you. we'll be reading that reporting in politico. >> you have no concern about his ability as president, if he were president, to make an argument with foreign leaders in negotiations and not be misconstrued or misunderstood? >> absolutely not. i have no concerns with that what so ever. he is not going to be dealing

with foreign leaders at a political rally. it will definitely be more of a serious discussion -- >> so there's a difference between a political rally and speech with foreign leaders when you're president? >> well, yeah, he wasn't talking about policy. he wasn't talking about everily menation of policy. he was talking about what would happen if hillary clinton were to be elected and he was absolutely right. >> i'm speechless because i'm trying to follow your logic here and i'm having a hard time. >> i can tell. >> there's a difference if n your head between speak to go a rally and what he will do when he is in the office. >> you know, i really don't see barack obama sitting and telling us what happens in his discussions with forei leaders. >> can i ask you a question? i always -- >> who are his surrogates? >> one of the ways you judge

somebody, why is he or anybody in that campaign continually letting that person speak publicly? >> yeah. >> who are his surrogates compared to who are hillary clinton's surrogates? does he have any surrogates with credibility? >> well, my personal opinion is once you sign up to defend this guy you have lost credibility. >> chris christie and rudy giuliani are people we once had a lot of respect for. when i hear giuliani say everyone interpreted that -- you lose credibility once you defend this guy. even on the face of it her argument is nonsensical. she is saying there is a

difference between rally and political conversation. you don't hear obama talking about what he will say about a political conversation. >> i'm not afraid to not be piecey. >> always good to see you. still ahead, a major retailer shut reported 100 stores. delta trying to deal with the effects of the massive global outage. "morning joe" is back in a moment. and thousands of miles away. with the help of at&t, red bull racing can share critical information about every inch of the car from virtually anywhere. brakes are getting warm. confirmed, daniel you need to cool your brakes. understood, brake bias back 2 clicks. giving them the agility to have speed & precision. because no one knows & like at&t.

my mmade a simple trip toonic the grocery storesis anything but simple. so i had an important conversation with my dermatologist about humira. he explained that humira works inside my body to target and help block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to my symptoms.

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thiswell we thought geench programmed machines to talk. ge is an industrial company that actually builds world-changing machines. machines that can talk to each other digitally. hello? they don't talk to each other like that, ricky. shhhh, you'll anger it. he looks a little ticked off now. they get people to the destination. we'll konlt to provide that high caliber of service that we have been known for. again, the technology outage was

an incident. it's not who we are. we'll recover. >> that was delta ceo taking responsibility for the devastating computer outage that happened this week. let's bring in sarah. i think that's the way to handle a bad situation like that. >> reporter: yeah. they also said that the company should be fully on track today. the tally of cancellations, over 2,100 flights cancelled in the last three days since this glitch occurred monday morning. the hope is that it is a wake up call to up dwrad their infrastructure. it happened to other airlines. some consumer nays, macy's out with numbers. the stock is up nicely. department stores are struggling with less mall traffic and

macy's is saying it will have to close 100 stores out of the more than 700. they are trying to get mall traffic back on track and consumer spending on apparel. they are try to go change that. the other one to watch is shake shack. this is a fast growing restaurant stock. the story here is it needs to expand fast to live up to high expectations. we are use to seeing lines all over manhattan for shake shack. can it get that kind of attention. right now it has one of the highest evaluations in terms of restaurant stocks. it really needs to live up to that. >> burgers and fries, right? >> really good. >> don't diminish it like that. >> i'm not. >> do you like chicken nuggets? i have to go. still ahead, the rise and

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this week the new york times magazine is rolling out a single story solely devoted to explaning. it gives readers an in depth look of how it all unfolded,

each from different rediops and backgrounds. scott anderson sets up the article in part this way. i was heartened by the focus of the people's wrath, one of the most prominent and debilitating features. it was defined less of what what they aspired to than what they opposed. the region's dictators at channels frustrations towards these external enmys and away from their own misrule. but with the arab spring that old play book suddenly didn't workanymore. congratulations. i know it was a year and a half work of reporting. it is a remarkable piece. how did you begin to tackle this issue that spreads over so long a period of time?

>> very early on. the editor and chief of new york times magazine approached me about doing a very big piece. i realized no one would read a 40,000 word essay. i realized i needed to tell the story through the experiences of people from the region. so what i spent a lot of my time doing was going to different countries to iraq and libya and egypt and looking for people who i felt their stories could serve as the vehicle for the history through this time. >> so when or where did you find this? how did this start? >> i think you really have to go back to the american invasion of iraq in 2003. in both good ways and bad that really just completely reshipped the chess board of the region. it called into question for the first time these regimes that

had ruled their countries for decades and made things possible. you know, people seeing saddam hussein fall, it had this effect of thinking change could come here. that was the positive thing. the negative side of things was when the american invasion turned into a fiasco. it is at the whole region. >> and so at that point it's interesting to hear you say there was a positive outcome. in purely inspiration terms they could be toppled as well but they had to do it without the help of the united states military. >> that's right. i'm saying a positive scenario. there was a chance something good could have happened. in a case like tunisia, they seem to have consolidated a functioning demock sichracydemo.

in particular it has been a disaster in iraq and libya and syria. who those three countries have in dmcommon is they -- so they created this notion of a nation. when they have overthrown people fall back in these countries that have never had a strong sense of national identity they fall back to tribes or clans or sub clans. >> and quickly, we are running low on time, do you view syria as the worst of the problems there? >> yes. i think syria is definitely the worst of the problems. i think that will burn for the next 10 or 15 years. libya will become a problem next year. >> we have only scratched the issue. >> the new issue of new york times magazine available online

today. thank you for your reporting. >> thank you. up next, what, if anything, did we learn today? ♪ ♪ a farmer's market.ve what's in this kiester. a fire truck. even a marching band. and if i can get comfortable talking about this kiester, then you can get comfortable using preparation h. for any sort of discomfort in yours. preparation h. get comfortable with it. every patient gets their own care manager. it's a long journey, and we try to help them through that. the care manager coordinates all of the

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announcer: they'll test you. try to break your will. but however loud the loudness gets.

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>> chicken nuggets breaded in captain crunch. >> it is called the nugget spot. >> joe's band is playing at 84th and columbus. sorry about that everybody. stephanie picks up the coverage right now. >> when i see those nuggets i think munchies. we have breaking news. a terrifying explosion at a maryland apartment building. >> waiting and nobody comes and says anything to us. >> dozens of people injured. up to seven people now missing. the big question, what set it off? we'll take you live in the latest. donald trump with a new hit on hillary clinton over isis. i would say the cofounder would be