we had thought he would be on with you, thomas. but we will take it over from here. thomas, thanks so much. good afternoon to all of you. i'm kate snow. it is a busy day in the political world. starting, as we say, at any moment from now, expecting donald trump to take the stage at a luxury hotel in miami. speaking at the national association of home builders convention. after he's through, a short time later, we expect to hear from are hillary clinton. she's giving a major speech. they're billing it as a major economic speech in michigan. and then it will be trump's turn again. he'll be speaking to pastors in orlando, florida, before a rally in kissimmee, florida, tonight. that's where hallie jackson is today. what's the latest down there? >> reporter: let's look at what trump has going on today. and some of the fallout that he's facing from new comments just this morning. you mentioned he'll be at that rally in kissimmee. the home builders event in a couple minutes where we expect had him to prebutt hillary

clinton's speech. trump raising eyebrows with his comments, the accusations he began to make last night that president obama, in his words, founded isis. right? this is something he said at his rally, the first time we heard that specific line against president obama. he's used it against hillary clinton before. i would say doubling down. that seems inadequate. i don't know if you would call it tripling or quadrupling or quinn it uppeling. i want to play what he said on cnbc and then talk about another interview he did that reiterated. >> is something wrong with saying that? why, are people complaining saying he was the founder of isis? >> i'm wondering how you think that's going to play in some battle ground states. >> whatever it is, it is. look, all i did is tell the truth. i'm a truth-teller. all i did is tell the truth. and if at the end of 90 days i fall in short because i'm politically correct, even though i'm supposed to be the smart one and even though i'm supposed to have a lot of good ideas, it's

okay. i go back to a very good way of life. it's not what i'm looking to do. i think we're going to have a victory. but we'll see. >> reporter: here's the thing, kate. some do make the argument that because of how the united states decided to take action in the middle east, it created a vacuum that allowed isis to flourish. this is something that radio host hugh hewitt said to trump today. just within the last maybe two hours or so. he said, hey, i know what you meant. that there was a vacuum created, that that is what allowed isis to be created, and trump flatley said, no, obama is the founder of isis. and, again, reiterated his point. you know, we have to say, obviously, president obama is not the founder of isis. so we are curious to see what trump says today, whether he addresses this controversy. and something else, kate, whether he addresses his plan for sfwlooezika. this is something here in florida a huge point of discussion for many people, particularly further south from us in miami, which is kind of the epicenter of the public health crisis.

trump hasn't addressed it in a substantial way. he may today when pressed by local reporters and others here in the sunshine state. so a lot going on in the world of politics yet again. >> yeah. and let me ask you one followup. there is a "time" mag report out today that is crediting two top gop officials saying that the rnc chairman, reince priebus said to donald trump that if he doesn't turn his campaign around, quote, the national party may shift its focus from his candidacy to down ballot races. any response from the trump campaign? >> reporter: nothing yet, kate. let's talk about what republicans outside trump world say. they believe if it is a trump loss by let's say nine or ten points, it is going to significantly hurt the vulnerable senators in key statements states like pennsylvania. there is concern that republicans could not just lose the white house but could also lose the senate majority. so the trump campaign, of course, is aware of that. donald trump himself is aware of

that. the possibility that he could maybe bounce back in some of this polling isn't totally out of the question, potentially. but trump is reiterating today he is not going to change his strategy, kate. he is not going to pivot. we should stop talking about a pivot. he said, i'm going to continue to stick with what works. and i'm parafrayeding, but what he said to cnbc, i'm going to win or go on a really nice, really long vacation. so you've got to listen to the candidate himself and what he's saying. trump will point to and his team will point to the fact this strategy won him the primaries. he beat out a number of other republican challengers to get to where he is. so they're saying, listen, there is a window, ewe've got a few more weeks. people will start paying attention. so let's wait and see if that happens. >> nbc's hallie jackson, down in florida, waiting for donald trump as we continue to wait for this eventuality in miami. and, of course, we'll bring that to you as it merits attention. one of the big problems trump is having right now, lack of support among african-american voters. every major recent poll shows

him at about 2% support among african-americans. since 1948, we looked back, that number for republican candidates has been about five times that on average for most republican candidates. for some perspective, i want to welcome in ashley bell, recently named senior strategist and national director of african-american political engagement for the republican national committee. welcome. nice to see you in person. we have talked remotely a lot. did you get a phone call? how did this happen that you're with rnc? the last time we talked, you were a delegate from georgia. >> that's right. i have a good relationship with our chairman, and my chairman knows how passionately i care about making sure that both parties compete for the african-american vote. that's something i take personally and i want to see happen. so i did get a call from the rnc -- >> from mr. priebus himself. >> wefrom the political department. this was an opportunity for me to help create the environment, making sure republicans doing

their best to fight for the black vote. >> 2012, 13% of all voters, democrat/republican, were african-american, so a big chunk of the population. they tend to vote democrat. some of our battleground polling, right now, as you know, shows trump with 0% of the african-american vote in ohio and pennsylvania. that's our nbc news polling. you can dispute the polling. but it's zero. -- >> one of my good democrat friends called me and said you've got nowhere to go but up, actually. and i agree. >> glass half full. >> we have a lot of work to do. >> what do you do to get those votes? >> we have a lot of work to do, but i'm glad we're willing to do it. the fact the chairman has put in resources for myself to come in -- i'm not coming in alone. elroy sailors, shanna reads, political science professor. we have a great team building. the investments there, working with all 12 battle ground states to make sure the directors are reaching out to black voters and engaging them on the issues. if this election is about the

issues, i think we have a shot. if it's only about personality and rhetoric, it's going to be tough. >> do you think your candidate is making it more about personality and rhetoric? >> i think the democratic party does a good job of what they always do. every four years, come on and say the republicans are racist so don't think about them. i think we have a chance to look he at the issues. when you look at race in this country, the democrats have as much to blame as republicans do. when you look at the 1990s and everything the clinton's did, during the '90s there's more african-americans put in federal and state prisons than at any time in federal history, that was under bill clinton. there is honesty with we need to debate the issues. >> donald trump's comment on second amendment issue, supreme court appointees. hillary clinton's response yesterday, she responded and then trump talking about it just this morning. talking about president obama being the founder of isis. take a listen.

>> words matter, my friends. and if you are running to be president or you are president of the united states, words can have tremendous consequences. yesterday we witnessed the latest in a long line of casual comments from donald trump that cross the line. >> last night, you said the president was the founder of isis. i know what you meant. you meant he created the vacuum -- >> no, i meant he's the founder of isis. i do. eyes the most valuable player. i gave him the most valuable player award. i give her too, by the way. >> do democrats have a point he needs to be more careful with his words or not? >> i used to be a democrat. i remember in 2008 when i was supporting president obama that in march of 2008 when they -- everyone wanted hillary clinton to get out of the primary, she made a comment and said you know what, i'm not going to get out because in june rfk was

assassinat assassinated. she apologized to the kennedy family. she said to the kenny's, i apologized, i was thinking about teddy kennedy. >> is that a fair parallel? >> yes. >> that was brought up with me by katrina pearson yesterday. i didn't hear her make the comment. it's gotten a lot of attention. we were talking over each other and i didn't hear her references. i'm glad you brought it up. >> president obama -- i thought she was wrong and i think she should have apologized then. i think many people who remember that comment and when you talk about donald trump and the isis comment, give the president credit. the president came out and said you know what, what was the number one mistake. i should have had a plan in libya after we removed gadhafi. so i think the president has taken credit for his responsibility in isis. >> so you don't think it's too far for trump to be saying he's the quote unquote founder. >> he made aplan, made a mistake. american people have to look and say how many times are we putting people in office who go to war who don't have a plan when they're done.

>> my question is, is donald trump the republican candidate who you're now supporting, is he taking it too far with the rhetoric? >> he's going to make his choice on what he says. the facts are the facts. the president left libya, had no plan. we've had other republican presidents that have had the same problem. we can't elect another president who is going to go to war and not have a plan on what we're going to do day one. >> let's talk big picture for a second. his poll numbers are falling. any polls out in the last couple weeks show a decline. "time" magazine shows his face melting. i don't know if you have seen this picture. there it is. what -- the headline there is "meltdown." what does donald trump have to do to make up some lost ground? >> you know, donald trump has a strategy that he's going to stick to. he wants to remind voters every day he's the outsider. he is not the insider. he's not the status quo. and he is going to win or lose on that strategy. and so i don't think that -- i think your earlier comment was right. he's not going to change. there is no pivot. he's donald trump and he's going

to -- he's going to offer the american people a different choice. he is not a politician and i think that american people, when the debates happened, we'll see that clearer. it's one thing to see clip versus clip. but that debate stage, kate, is going to really be an interesting time. i think donald trump will come out on top. >> other people already popping the popcorn for that debate in a series of debates. ashley bell, rnc senior strategist, african-american political engagement. thank you for being with us. appreciate it. coming up, donald trump speaking right now in miami. we will continue to monitor his comments there. and next, what's fueling trump's rise? we're going to talk with jd vance, getting a lot of attention. a must-read in political circles. it's his personal story but also a revealing look at white working class voters, and why he thinks they're misunderstood by a lot of politicians. max and i just discovered this dog treat called dentalife. it's really different. see? it's flexible... ...and it has a chewy, porous texture, full of little tiny

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donald trump's poll numbers, as we mentioned, have been dipping in the wake of recent comments he's made, including criticizing a gold star family. trump's numbers falling among one of the group's most credited with his rise in the first place. white, working-class voters. the latest nbc news "wall street journal" poll find white voters without a college education, trump leads clinton 49-36%. but that is down from 55-33%, just in july. a new book takes a hard look at why the white working class in america is struggling, why they were attracted to donald trump in the first place. "hill billy elegy" is a memoir, the writer is a yale law credit who calls himself a, quote, scotts irish hill billy at heart and has in the words of today's

"new york times" book review, inadvertently provided a civilized reference guide for an uncivilized election. the author, jd vance, joins me right now. good to see you. >> thanks for having me. >> we appreciate you coming in. good timing that it happens to be on the front page of the "new york times" art section this morning. >> sure. >> you say in the beginning of the book, you grew up in a poor ohio steel town. your family moving there for jobs from kentucky. those jobs then disappeared. stability crumbled for your family. what's happening to families like yours? >> well, i think first because they can't find good jobs and they can't find frankly jobs that make them proud of what they do. this economic crisis set in and also a social crisis, feeling hopeless about the future. you have seen family break down numbers sky rocket. opioid addiction numbers also sky rocket. it's kind of crazy that the ohio county where i grew up last year, deaths from heroin overdoses outnumbered deaths

from natural causes. so it's just i think a very hopeless place in a lot of ways. and a very frustrated place. >> and how does that link to what's happening in our political world right now? donald trump spoke to an audience filled with miner's yesterday, people who do mining. and he said i'm going to be an unbelievable positive. but this is the last shot, he said to that audience. you write about working-class voters, say they're the most pessimistic group in america, more so than latino immigrants or black americans. is negativity a part of the appeal do you think for trump? >> i think the way he goes after frankly the political elites. because in these places for 20 or 30 years they felt basically ignored by everyone in washington, d.c. and everyone in new york. and so what's happened is that he's the first person who has really said, you know what, other people are at fault for these problems. we're going to go after the people who have been screwing you for so long, and because these people have felt like someone has been after them for a really long time, that's the

only way that explains the lies they see, really resonated with donald trump's message. >> the "new york times" this morning say vance preaches a message of tough love and pishl responsibility. he has no patience with ab old aequatence only to take to facebook to blame the obama economy. squint, and you'll note the incendiary nature of mr. vance's argument. it's always treacherous business to blame a group for its own misfortunes. how dangerous is that blame game? >> i think it can be dangerous and you have to recognize this problem is really complex. it's not just that these people are at fault for their own problems and it's not just that the economy has gone south. it's frankly both. i think to have an honest conversation about inequality, about upward mobility and the frustration of the white working class, we have to be up front about the fact these problems are complex and that's why i wrote the book. >> and you keep saying these people. but these are your people. >> absolutely. these are my people. >> you graduated from yale law

school. you talk a lot in the book about what you didn't know growing up. that you didn't know -- what you didn't know when you entered the marines and what you didn't know when you headed off to college. >> sure. >> and i think your point is that people need to know that options are there, and you and i were talking off camera about this. options were there outside the community they're living in. >> yeah, absolutely. it's a question of whether when you get to a new place and you get to a place that's required for upward mobility, do you know how to navigate it. you need to make connections, do you know how to use a butter knife which you think is a small deal but when you're in net working dinners, it was a big deal for me i didn't know how to conduct myself in this sort of environment. so i think a big part of the problem here is that folks don't realize what options are out there. and even when they're lucky enough like i was to find themselves in these places, they sometimes don't know how to conduct themselves. >> so what's your best advice to all of us who are sort of looking -- we were talking off camera. i have a lot of friends in this

situation. i grew up in upstate new york on an apple orchard and spent time in new mexico and still have a really good friend there really struggling. >> of course. >> what do we do as a nation to help bridge that gap? >> well, i think the first thing we have to do is spend a little bit more time with each other. and it sounds trite. but if you think about the residential segregation that's happening in the country right now, rich and upper middle class aren't spending time with the poor and vice versa. so there is a huge cultural disconnect where the people at the lower rungs of the ladder don't understand what's required to get ahead and also don't see other people who are successful so they don't have hope they can be successful. so i think there are a lot of policy things we can do to help these people, to help my people. but frankly, i think a really good first step would be for people like me and like you to recognize that we have to spend a little bit more time with these communities to try to understand them. >> person i mentioned in new mexico is my little sister through big brothers, big sisters, a mentoring organization. i'm a big believer in that and i'm sure you are too.

>> mentorship is a great organization and what saved me. >> jd vance, so interesting to talk with you and kind of a must-read, "hill billy elegy." thank you for spending it time with us. donald trump speaking to the national association of home builders in miami. moments ago, trump doubled down on his claim that president obama is the founder of isis. we'll be right back, or actually we'll listen to him live for a few moments here in miami. >> four more years of obama. the last thing you want are judges put on the united states supreme court that are going to destroy our nation. we lost judge scalia, who was a great justice. a great judge. we lost him. that was shocking, because he was going to be there at least another ten years. and that seat was taken. but all of a sudden before we start -- so this president actually could have as many as five -- it's unlikely five, but probably four -- almost

definitely three. it's a lot. but it could be an all-time record. could have five. so that's probably the single most or one of the -- certainly one of the very big -- defense, i always say is the most. we have to be safe. we can't let isis come in. we can't let the syrians pour into our country like they are right now. we have no idea who they are, where they're coming from. we have no idea what their thought process is. we just don't know. and there's no way you can vet them. but they're pouring in. and hillary wants 550% more to come in than we have right now. which is just insane. so we have to be smart. we have to be tough. and we have to be vigilant. and i will say that president obama and clinton have economic policies that have produced -- you saw the latest report. 1.2% growth. right? 1.2%. if that ever happened in china, they would have a revolution.

they get to 7% or 8%, and they start devaluing their krens and they start taking more business out of the united states. and we allow it to happen, because we have people at the top that are not smart, number one. and are probably controlled by people that want it to happen. but they're not smart people. so china starts devaluing. and i have nothing against china. i like china. i have leases with china, biggest bank in the world is a tenant of mine, one of my buildings in new york. sell condos to the chinese, the bank of america building in san francisco, i own that with a great partner. and i got that through china, indirectly and directly. so i've had great relation -- i've made a fortune with china. but they don't respect us. they don't respect our country, they don't respect our country. they don't respect our president, they don't like our president. putin doesn't like our president.

wouldn't it be nice if we could get along with russia? wouldn't that be a decent thing? wouldn't that be nice? but there is no respect. but the 1.2 growth -- percent, was startling number for a lot of people. the national debt has nearly doubled under obama, and by the time he gets out, it will be more than doubled. the u.s. trade deficit, all of this work we do for trade, trade, trade, we make all bad trade deals. it's nearly $800 billion last year. $800 billion, billion, billion. with a b. 800 billion. we have great negotiators if i use home builders to negotiate, that wouldn't be happening. believe me. [ cheers and applause ] i could take 90% of the people in this room, maybe higher, but i could take 9 -- because i know the people in this room. i could take 90% of the people in this room, put them in charge

of some of these trade deals that we make with these different countries and our country would be flush. we would be rolling in dough. but we had a trade deficit of $800 billion. we had a trade deficit with china -- this is the big one, of $505 billion. think of it, trade deficit. does anybody think they couldn't do a better deal? raise your hand if you think you couldn't do a better keel. he raised his hand, he had the guts. get out of here, we don't want you. [ laughter ] [ applause ] >> he's not a true home builder. that was very cute, thank you. i'm sure you don't believe that, but that's okay. if you do, your business must be suffering, right? [ laughter ] nearly 24 million americans in their prime earning years are out of the labor force. in the last seven years, another 14 million people have left the work force. and hillary clinton has got to make a speech tonight. she's going to raise taxes

$1.3 trillion. i'm going to cut taxes, big. we're having a massive cut in taxes. we're having a massive cut in regulations. you know -- [ cheers and applause ] and that includes banking regulations for you people. because it's impossible for you people to go get mortgages. so hard for people to get mortgages today. unless you have a lot of money in the bank, and unless you don't need money, you can't borrow. right? you can't borrow. i have friends that call me, could you give me a reference to a bank. i said, why would you need a reference? you've got a good business. they said no, they want us to have more money than we want to borrow. i said, well, if you had that, you wouldn't have to borrow, right? so why -- it's impossible. with dodd/frank, the different things you have. i know people that can't get mortgages to buy houses and that's why your housing numbers are way down from what they were. in terms of new capacity. one in five american households

do not have a single member in the american labor force. think of that. home ownership -- is this a biggy for you. home ownership is at its lowest rate in 51 years. think of that. there was always like the american dream, right? owning a home was the american dream. the lowest rate in 51 years. and i have a chart. where is that chart. look at this. see, i'm into the world of charts lately. so descriptive. so here's a chart. most of you can see. you don't need very good eyesight to see what's going on. so here's obama. and here's the end. [ laughter ] [ cheers and applause ] he's not finished yet. isn't that a terrible -- seriously. isn't that a terrible picture? look at that. homeownership.

so you take a look at what's happened. that's the american dream right there, folks. and then they wonder why 25,000 people come to my rallies. and why 10,000 people and 10,000 and 5,000, where we have a room that holds 200. and why -- you know, i mean, even your meeting. it was supposed to be one-third this size. and look at it. but look at this. and to me, that says so much, because it's homeownership. that's the american dream. and it's the lowest it's been in 51 years. wow. so i think that's a pretty sad -- i hope you know i had that chart not necessarily made for you. but i figured it would be a good one to pull out, okay? [ laughter ] [ applause ] nearly 12 million people, more americans, are dependent on food stamps and 2 million more latino americans live in poverty.

latino-americans. incredible people living in poverty. 2 million. 58% of african-american youth are not employed. 58%. american households are earning 4,000 -- see, this is to me so incredible. american households are earning $4,000 less today than they were 16 years ago. the real number is 18 years ago. but this particular group says 16, statistically. 16 years ago. many workers are earning less money than they were earning in real dollars in 1970. and then you wonder why they're angry. you wonder why they really want a voice. and the voice is us. we have a movement going on, it's been an amazing thing. and the polls are getting very close. very, very close. it's very interesting what's happening. we will create millions of new

good-paying jobs with an across the board income tax reduction. i mean, this is one of the things that we have to do. we have to do. we're going to create millions of jobs. now, everybody admits, you know, the 5% number is just -- a number to make politicians look good, to make the presidents look good. not only obama, it was there before him. although it's gotten actually worse, because more people -- the way they -- the way they analyze these numbers more and more people -- gets lower and lower and people can't find work. if you give up looking for a job, after months, you go home, i can't find one, dad. i can't find one, mom. i can't find one to your wife or to your husband. can't find a job. you go home and you give up. after a while, you give up. and everybody admits that there are no good jobs. the good jobs we don't have any more. even the other side. we have jobs, we don't have good jobs. but you give up. you give up looking, and yet you

are considered statistically employed. because the numbers are phony. 5%. every time i watch that, unemployment is down to 5%. it's not down to 5%. it's probably 20 or 21%. some people think it's higher. but people want jobs. and they quit. they give up looking. everyone's taxes we want to go down. under my plan. three brackets -- three brackets instead of seven. we're doing a major, major, major simplification. the one company that will not be happy is h & r block. i know people that go and spend a fortune on tax returns, because they can't -- it's too complicated, they can't figure it out. many americans are going to pay nothing. now, they're going to pay zero, because they're not making enough to live. but they don't want to send -- they're not going to send a tax return in. it costs a fortune, bureaucratically. billions of dollars.

and they don't have money and they're not going to pay so we're going to make that an easier process. hillary clinton has supported tax increases on the middle class for her entire career. she voted for higher taxes 235 times in the senate. i thought it was more than that. thinktive. she has voted for tax increases. and by the way, proposing a big one today. in her speech. her teleprompter speech. she's got -- [ laughter ] [ applause ] her speeches are so short, though. they don't last long. they're like, ten minutes, let's get out of here. go back home and go to sleep. [ laughter ] three days later, she gets up and she does another one and goes back home and goes to sleep. [ laughter ]

oh, boy, is isis hoping for her. is china hoping. you imagine china? they come in, you ever negotiate with the chinese, they're tough. they're tough. you have to hit them back with a lot of energy. so now she's planning another job-killing $1.3 trillion tax increase. her plan -- $1.3 trillion. think, her plan will tax many small businesses. you folks, by almost 50%. enjoy your tax increase, folks. that's what it is. i've cut mine down to 15%. 15%. for businesses. [ cheers and applause ] so no small business in our plan will be taxed more than 15%. and we'll allow businesses to expense new business investments. which is nice, right?

we'll make average child care expense tax deductible for working families. a very big thing. and very fair thing. we're going to -- [ applause ] very fair thing. that was ivanka trump. she thought that was good. [ laughter ] she really did. she felt very strong. she's had three children now. and she thought it was very unfair to working mothers and families, what was happening. so i -- and i agreed with her 100%. we will eliminate the interest deduction, and other special interest loopholes. and we're going to repeal the death tax. the estate tax, the death tax. [ cheers and applause ] you know, i know so many families that have been destroyed by the death tax. where they have a business and the business is going along, and business has a certain value,

and they can't make a deal with the government. and they end up losing their business. sometimes they can't even sell it. but they end up losing their business. or they have to sell their business. and the people that come in don't run the business the same way and the business goes out of business. farmers are hit hard. housing companies are hit hard. i guess. housing companies are hit very hard, especially when you want to keep it going and you want your children to take over and keep running your business. and it's a very, very unfair situation, and the tax is massive and it's -- it doesn't amount to a lot of money for the country. it's not a huge amount of money, believe it or not. but it is just a destroyer of businesses. the farmers are -- they don't know what to do about it. they don't know what to do. they go out of business. overregulation. which is a big problem. is costing our economy $2 trillion a year. think of that. and you are a big beneficiary of overregulation. because there's nobody other than i would say the energy industry that's overregulated

more than the home building industry. and -- nobody. [ applause ] we just want 25%. 25%, the cost of a house. i think we should get that down to about 2%. honestly. no, no, honestly. [ cheers and applause ] it's ridiculous. the u.s. economy today is 25% smaller than it would have been without the surge of regulations since 1980. i think that's true. so many businesses are knocked out. we will issue an executive order to impose a temporary regulation moratorium on new agency regulations. [ cheers and applause ] >> you've been listening to donald trump speaking down in miami at a hotel. he's speaking to the national association of home builders there. a lower key trump than we have seen at recent events, talking about his economic plans unveiled just this week. and at the start of when we took those remarks, he had just talked about president obama and

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decrease alcohol use while taking chantix. use caution when driving or operating machinery. most common side-affect is nausea. life as a non-smoker is a whole lot of fun. ask your doctor if chantix is right for you. hillary clinton campaigning in michigan today, where she will lay out her economic plans. this as the "new york times" reports the cyberattack that targeted democrats last month was much bigger than it first appeared. potentially affecting the accounts of more than 1 00 party leaders and groups. kel kelly o'donnell joins me from michigan, we were just listening to donald trump touting his economic plans. what do we expect out of hillary clinton today? >> reporter: well, she will lay out sort of a response to what donald trump had done earlier here in the detroit area. she has talked about the economy at earlier times this year, but some of the highlights, according to campaign officials, is she will try to argue that donald trump's plans would

really benefit those at the highest income levels, more than working families, middle class families. she'll make the case that her plans would be more focus toward them. she will also organize for tuition free families and debt-free with those with more ability to pay. talking about making those on wall street who have the preferential tax treatment pay their fair share. on the hacking issue, kate, what we can tell you is the clinton campaign says they have not been notified by the fbi of any breach of their systems. so that's new today. and also in touch with democratic lawmakers who work on the intelligence side where they have oversight on capitol hill. they have been briefed on the most recent examples that we know of, of the house democratic campaign committee, known as the dccc or the dnc. they can't speak to it publicly, but some of the lawmakers say they hope if there is a specific

determination made, and there's an allegation that it's russian-related hackers or russian-based hackers, that be made public because that would have in the words of one lawmaker, very serious consequences if it's an attempt to interfere with an american electoral system by going after these political entities. so that's the latest there. but no new response yet today from the democratic national committee. kate? >> all right, kelly o'donnell out with hillary clinton today. thanks so much. here's an interesting note. today is known as national presidential joke day. if you're wondering why that's a thing, it's because 32 years ago today, on this day, in 1984, president ronald reagan made an off the cuff joke that ended up having relatively significant consequences. take a look at the "nbc nightly news" report from a few months later in 1984, when we finally got the full story of what happened showing how words, even jokes, really can matter. >> it was the joke heard around the world, the one by president

reagan about bombing the soviet union and it resulted in a soviet red alert and became a campaign issue in this country. now marvin kalb has learned the soviets responded in their own fashion. >> the president was joking his way through an audio check on august 11th. >> i signed legislation that will outlaw russia forever. we begin bombing in five minutes. >>. >> by august 14th, the story became world news, a major item on moscow television where the joke was not treated as a laughing matter. august 15th, a coded message left soviet military headquarters. it said in part, we now embark on military action against the u.s. forces. one senator said the alert must have been a joke. a congressman said it was russia's way of answering the president. most officials said no comment. the one did speculate that the russian might have been drunk. marvin kalb, nbc news, the state department. >> love the '80s graphics. joining me now, former new

mexico governor, bill richardson. we figured you would appreciate the throwback there. in all seriousness, we have been talking a lot lately about words. you were governor, you were congressman, you were ambassador to the u.n., secretary of energy under bill clinton. talk about the importance of presidents being careful with what they say. >> well, i remember that time when ronald reagan made that joke, and it did provoke that reaction from the russians. now imagine if donald trump is president and he starts coming out like with his daily idiotic statements that not only are dangerous, but they're wrong. so words matter. the world looks at our election. we are the leader of the free world. despite any faults that we may have. we're the most powerful military in the world. we have the largest nuclear arsenal. we're the cradle of democracy. and so, you know, words matter. and this is why this man is so

irresponsible. >> a few minutes ago, we were taking his speech in miami to the home builders association. he once again said he called clinton and obama the founders of isis. he is suggesting they had a lot to do with the creation of isis. your response? >> well, that's false. you know, i know a little bit about foreign policy. it's totally false. it's an accusation that has no foundation. the founder of isis? here you have a president who has bombed isis with a huge coalition. isis, unfortunately, is still around. there have been some military successes there. it's still a major threat to the united states. but this president has been somebody that has gone after isis, gone after assad and syria. tried to bring a coalition that includes the russians, who don't want to cooperate. so it's totally off base.

he doesn't know -- donald trump does not know foreign policy. and this is why national security experts from the republican party, 50 of them, very distinguished, homeland security officials are saying he's unfit temperamentally to be president. >> let me ask you about hillary clinton's words, as well. because they matter too. the e-mail situation, as you know, doesn't seem to be going away. the latest trickle, round of enough e-mails we learned about points to potentially inappropriate relationships or at least coordination between the state department and some officials there under hillary clinton. and officials at the clinton foundation, her husbands private organization. did they make a mistake? >> well, look. you have to look at these e-mails, case by case. there is going to be probably a lot more. in this case, with that lebanese businessman, no contact was ever made with the assistant

secretary at the state department. secondly, no meeting ever took place. it seems that the lebanese wanted to talk about the elections in lebanon, and that was it. you know, this is a routine communication among people that know each other. now, i know the optics are not good, kate. >> well, that's -- >> it's better that these not take place. but no favoritism there was shown. what was. >> that is part of the question, though, isn't it? the optics of this. these e-mail stories fodder for republicans. you hear donald trump talk about it every day, now. drip, drip, drip. is it going to get worse before election day? >> well, i don't know if it will get worse. but they're going to keep hammering at this, which this clinton foundation e-mails are basically harmless. the optics, you're right, are not good. but i think what hillary is doing today, talking about the economy, expanding jobs, manufacturing, you know, and talking about donald trump -- his economic plan is the one -- is for the 1%.

it's tax cuts for the wealthy. corporate tax cuts. he wants to get into a trade war with china. that's going to be interesting. i mean, so the contrast is very obvious. and this is why he is sinking in the polls. >> can i go back to the kelly o'donnell was just reporting about the dnc and the hacking that happened. and given your years of experience and your experience with the russians, do you believe that the russians have taken -- have mettled in u.s. politics? do you believe the russians were behind those hacks? >> well, i think evidence is pointing that they were. it is obvious that the russian and the united states, our relationship is not good. it is obvious that putin and obama don't have a good relationship. and, yeah, i think russians and chinese, they're the biggest hackers in the world. and it's very possible that in this area of cyber security of hacking, this is happening. are they trying to influence an election? it seems that putin does like

trump. he favors him. it could be -- i don't have all of that intelligence that i used to have, kate. but it's very serious if the russians are interfering in our electoral process. >> bill richardson, former governor of new mexico new mexico, that's how we know each other. good to see you again. >> thank you. all right. we've just gotten a response from the clinton campaign about the isis comments that were just made by donald trump. you heard part of them here on the air from senior adviser, jake sullivan to hillary clinton. quote, this is another example of donald trump trash-talking the united states. it goes without saying that this is a false claim from a presidential candidate with an aversion to the truth and an unprecedented lack of knowledge. what's remarkable about trump's comments, he continues, is that once again, he's echoing the talking points of putin and our adversaries to attack american leaders and american interests while failing to offer any serious plans to confront terrorism or make this country more secure. again, that's a new statement just in from the hillary clinton

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♪ back now with our daily look at the competition at the rio games. there are 21 gold medals to be won today. some of america's favorites gearing up to try to claim them. nbc's chris jansing joins me again with what is going to be must-see tv tonight, chris. >> reporter: is it ever! okay. so let's talk about this epic showdown between two great friends and rivals, michael phelps and ryan lochte in a race they have owned. it's the 200 i.m. individual medley. phelps had the better time in the prelims and has won the last three olympic golds. lochte, though, holds the word record. and adding to the typer anticipation for this is the fact that this may well be their last duel in the pool. one final olympic battle.

another epic battle tonight, simone biles versus aly raisman. can they finish 1 and 2 in the women's gymnastics all-around finals. biles the heavy favorite, but raisman performing at her peak right now. i was talking to somebody in usa gymnastics and she told me you never take anything for granted. one bobble, one fall, the result could change. but these two are so good. so far ahead of anybody else. if they're on their game, nobody can beat them but each other. team usa is in pursuit of the overall olympic record of 1,000 gold medals at a summers' games and got a little help yesterday from some of our youngest and oldest athletes. let's start with kristin armstrong, turns 43 today. yesterday collapsed at the finish of a cycling competition in the middle of nasty weather. not realizing she had just won her third gold. she told me what was going through her head at that very moment.

>> that moment, i did fall down. i didn't have anything left in my legs. i just wanted to lie down. that's all i wanted to do. and the thing that brought me up off the ground was seeing my family and my friends in the stands. and then, of course, having lucas come over and give me a hug. >> oh, my gosh, that hug was something else. >> that gave me a lot of energy. >> reporter: from her 6-year-old son. happy birthday to kristin. and then 19-year-old katie ledecky showed her greatness, anchoring the 4 x 200, diving into the pool behind. it took her until the first turn only to catch up, and to take her fourth medal, three gold. so she now has the most medals of any athlete here in rio. and later today, by the way, she swims in the prelims of the 800 freestyle. and i kind of think we should root for fiji tonight. this is a country that has never in history won a medal of any color, and tonight a win in the semi finals of rugby, this team

nicknamed the seventh samurai could be in a position to medal. the country, kate, is being described as being in a state close to a total meltdown over this. >> oh, my goodness. i think so totally imagine that. quick question. the green pool for the divers. is that a problem still, or did they clear that up? >> reporter: yes, and in fact, some of the divers says it's like diving into a swamp and now it's gone over into the water polo pool, people saying their eyes were burning. olympic officials say this is not a problem, it's a chemical imbalance. they're fixing it. this is also the pool -- that water polo pool, by the way, the synchronized swimmers are in. we're going to have to wait and see later today if it's looking any better, kate. >> wow. we're staying up late to watch the swimmers, again, in my house. >> oh, yes! >> chris jansing, thank you, thank you, as always. i'm kate snow. do not go anywhere yet. coming up, the olympic games from rio de janeiro, right here on msnbc.

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michael phelps pill do it again. reach for gold! beautiful rio de janeiro on day six of the games of the 31st olympiad, athletes from around the world will get their chance for individual glory and national pride. from our olympic studio headquarters in stanford, connecticut where copacabana north as we like to call it. glad you can join us again on s srs msnbc. today second day of women's water polo. an