lost the peace. >> no, i meant he was the founder of isis, i do. he was the most valuable player. i give him the most valuable player award. >> but he's not sympathetic to them, he hates them. >> he was the founder. the way he got out of iraq, that was the founding of isis. >> they just sat back and waited, and when we left, basically isis was formed. and he calls it isil. the reason he calls it isil, he likes to bother everybody. but isis was formed. and -- >> but aren't those statements inflammatory when you say something like that? >> i tell the truth. i tell the truth. actually a lot of people like that i said it. he is the founder of isis. and hillary clinton is right there with him. >> so trump's defense comes as he and republicans are mired in reports of a serious break in unity. his team and top party officials are scheduled to meet today, contradicting more dire reports, a high-level rnc source told me this morning it's a routine

meeting. and also this is nuts and bolts, budgeting, staffing, vote goals. regardless, one report from politico got a response from trump. >> he just put out a tweet saying it's untrue. if it is true that's okay too. all i'll have to do is stop funding the republican party. i did the one raising the money for them. right now i'm in orlando going to a fund-raiser for the republican party. if they want to do that, they can save me a lot of time. >> let's start with nbc's katy tur here in 30 rock. katy has been following the bouncing ball of the trump campaign for over a year now. let's talk about the meeting that the rnc folks and trump campaign are supposed to have today. they want to say this is routine. they have anything but routine topics to discuss. i guess the break continues to show that these two factions are like water and oil. >> i don't think you can say that they are getting along well at this point. i think right now there is a lot

of -- i know there's a lot of frustration in both camps with the rnc from the trump camp and with the rnc towards the trump camp. there is a meeting happening today. is it a meeting where they'll have a come to jesus moment as politico reported? we're getting strong pushback on that idea. >> even if it is a routine meeting, there are heavy things to discuss. >> but donald trump is not at that meeting. if you're going to stage an intervention with the campaign, by all means go ahead. but the campaign only has so much influence over their candidate and that's been well dona documented. members of the campaign say they can tell him to do something but he won't necessarily do it. case in point, we won't get donald trump remarks ahead of time. you can't predict him. even when he does have notes or a teleprompter speech, he goes off script. so the rnc is trying very obviously to get on the same page with the campaign, to tell the campaign that they need to

find a way to control their candidate. they're doing this with the children as well. but ultimately donald trump has got to listen to not only his advisers, but the party and donors and his confidants that he needs to change and he needs to pivot. that conversation has been happening now, thomas, for this entire campaign. >> so the sarcasm kind of flippant way he wants everybody to look at the isis comments, it's really not the first time he's tried to downplay the weight of words. so is that going to work this time, because of all the criticism about this comment, the attention of it? >> i don't see how it can possibly work. he said i guess ten times yesterday, repeated over and over again that obama was the founder of isis. you just played that hugh hewitt interview where hugh asked him is this a vacuum? he said no, he's the founder of isis. again, in the miami interview he said it repeatedly. for him to come back now and have a tweet saying it's sarcasm doesn't necessarily fly or does not fly with people who don't

believe him any longer. the thing is, his supporters don't care. his supporters do not care if he contradicts himself. what you saw they rally yesterday outside of orlando with the supporters going up to the press pan and yelling obscenities at the reporters and demanding they tell the truth, that's something we've been experiencing on this campaign trail for some time. donald trump is not the one that's saying things wrong or lying potentially, it's the media that is coloring his words. the media is taking it out of context. but that is his supporters. and his supporters -- those are his supporters. his supporters do not make up at least at the moment enough of the general electorate to put him in the white house so he needs to expand this tent. when you ask his supporters, what should he do? they say get away from the controversies and move to the subjects you excel in, the economy, national security and job creation. >> katy tur.

great to see you in person. great writing, great story-telling and i want to be in consideration for that book title i gave you. >> which one was that? >> the terrific view of trump, tur. i want to bring in peter navarro, another person with a terrific view of trump. >> it's a pleasure. >> msnbc counted at least seven occurrence when donald trump had an opportunity to clarify those remarks, he didn't. he wants people to believe this is a joke. here we are again asking which donald trump are voters supposed to believe. so, peter, which one is it? >> let me say two things about that. it would be great if you and i could talk about economy and trade because that's what i'm the economy expert in. but let me say this about isis. hillary clinton as secretary of state spent over $5 billion of taxpayer money to get rid of colonel gadhafi in libya. what do we have now?

we have isis controlling libya. president obama issued a red line in syria about the use of chemical weapons. they used chemical weapons, obama did nothing. what do we have now? lead from behind obama getting isis going in syria. so when donald trump talks about clinton and obama being the head of isis -- >> peter, you made the point you want to talk about. >> let's do it. >> donald trump gave a major economics policy speech this week. how is that not all supposed to be interpreted as sarcasm? >> he was asked a question. >> how do we know that is policy that he wants to institute as commander in chief if we're supposed to believe one day one thing he says is sarcasm and the next day it's actual truth or somewhere in between. so since you're here to speak about the economy. >> sure. >> how do we know any of those policy positions just aren't sarcasm. >> let's talk about the jobs and the economy because this was an important week for the campaign,

for the clinton campaign. we've drawn the lines now. what are they? well, clearly hillary clinton wants to raise taxes on small business, on the middle class and then disguise it with this robin hood rhetoric about taxing the rich. donald trump wants to cut taxes for everybody. >> how do we know it's not sarcasm? >> oh, come on. really? >> no, no, seriously. how do we know? because the media misinterprets everything. >> you're asking me impossible questions. a guy, a billionaire with an economics plan comes and lays out a vision that's worthy of its 21st century reboot of ronald reagan's vision that's going to bring jobs to the american people which they desperately need and you're telling me we're talking about sarcasm here? >> yeah, because this is a presidential candidate that wants us to believe certain statements he makes are supposed to be interpreted as sarcasm. >> when hillary clinton said -- i want to talk about the plan. hillary clinton wants to increase regulation, donald trump wants to reduce it.

hillary clinton, tell me if this was sarcasm, my friend. columbus, ohio, she gets on and gives a speech and says she's going to kill the coal industry. was that sarcasm? donald trump doesn't want to kill the coal industry, that's not sarcasm. he wants to get our energy resources going. this is a great country. here's some sarcasm for you. hillary clinton's trade policy is to continue exporting jobs and importing campaign contributions from foreign governments so that we negotiate bad trade deals and donald trump wants to renegotiate every bad trade deal that hillary clinton ever signed. so we can do sarcasm, but at the end of the day it's a very clear divide between tax and spend hillary and donald trump, who actually has a vision for this economy. peter. >> peter, one thing that could give us good insight into the billionaire's own personal health is his taxes. we know he's under audit.

the irs says there is no reason that he is restricted from releasing that. richard nixon actually released his taxes under audit. how do we know there's not foreign money in those taxes? because specifically donald trump said it's disqualifying for other folks, presidential nominees, not to release their taxes, so what's he hiding? >> let's let hillary clinton do a press release and then drive the news cycle away from her failed economic plans. this is what's going on. >> no, donald trump said before it's disqualifying for a presidential nominee not to release his taxes. so i guess that was sarcasm. >> let's make a deal here. let's have hillary and bill clinton release every campaign contribution, contribution to the clinton foundation, contribution to the clinton global initiative and speaking fees and tie those back as the fbi and state department are now doing to all of the bad trade deals and bad foreign policy decisions she made and pay for play. that's the real story. >> there are more tax releases

coming from hillary clinton and tim kaine today. when it comes to knowing donald trump's foundation, the foundation for why trump is running and why people like him is because he's -- no one is going to hear us. peter, i ask the questions, you rns a, we'll have a nice back and forth, but donald trump's foundation and why people like him is because he is a success. he has had wonderful business success. he talks about that. and that's why he would be good when it comes to a meta economic program, something great for america, internationally and when it comes to trade. so when it comes to the tax returns, isn't it, as he said, disqualifying not to put it out there so folks can know exactly how he has constructed his success? >> can we -- let's dial it back and i want to tell you a personal story, if i may. i ran for office in the '90s and it was a lot like donald trump. i was a self-funded campaign, it

was a race for mayor in san diego, pretty big office to run for. and i got the same kind of pressure from my opponent releasing tax returns. the only reason why they wanted to have me release my tax returns was to find out how much money i could spend on that campaign. and i was naive and stupid enough to do that and they sure enough used that in their strategy against me. so my advice from personal experience to donald trump is don't release those tax returns because. >> but he's not running for mayor. he's not running for president of the united states. >> it's the same principle, my friend. >> he uses law and order, richard nixon inspired. >> we're dialing this back here. >> nixon was under audit and released his taxes. >> let me say two things. first of all, the only reason why tim and hillary are playing the tax card this week is to divert attention from their failed economic policies and all these investigations by the fbi into their corruption. second, it is a fair question,

my friend, that you should be asking. let's get all of the information from the clinton foundation, the clinton global initiative, their past campaigns and tie it to chinese money and all sorts of money -- >> so why doesn't donald trump put his taxes out and challenge them to be transparent. >> that might be a good deal, who knows. i would still advise donald trump not to release those tax returns because all it's going to do is give the other side a strategic advantage and donald trump, art of the deal, never does that. that's why we need donald trump in there. i mean we have hillary clinton negotiating a succession of bad trade deals, whether it's nafta, the south korean trade deal or anything in between. every time she does that, she exports jobs and imports despair and poverty into this country. >> but isn't that also part of trump's business success? he has a tie line that's made in another country, stemware made

in another country. he isn't employing people in this country to make all the different trump branded products and also brings in people to work, labor or work temp jobs that are coming in from other countries. they're not a majority of american people being employed by things he's bankrolled himself on. >> can i respond to that? >> sure. >> i was in cleveland during the convention and there's a wonderful part in his speech where he talked about if you're going to unrig the game like it's rigged now for the big multi national companies against american workers, you need to have been in the game. and the problem is, there's business people all over this country who are stuck having to play these games because bad trade deals pushed them offshore. what donald trump is trying to do is cut our corporate tax rates, bring them home. cut the currency manipulation so somebody can compete in michigan or illinois against the chinese. and donald trump and other

business people -- >> but you're making it sound as if there aren't american-based companies making american-made products and they're highly successful. why would you discount the work of what americans are already doing in this country by american made products, employing americans and keeping things here at home? why are you discounting that? >> these speeches were both in detroit. gm and ford, two michigan-based companies in the auto state, in the motor city, have spent over $5 billion in capital investment sending that to mexico rather than michigan over the last two years alone. why have they done that? it's because of nafta, the world trade organization and bad tax policy and trade policy that have pushed that investment there rather than in america. wouldn't you rather have that investment in michigan than in mexico? >> peter, i'm going to have to invite you back so we can continue this conversation. >> good conversation. i appreciate it. >> we could have an hour show

because my e.p. is about to kill me. peter navarro, appreciate it. kristen welker joins us now covering the clinton campaign. i'm sure you listened to the back and forth there, but is the clipton campaign releasing these taxes, as peter was saying there, as a distraction, to try to change the news cycle? >> i think they certainly have politics in mind. secretary clinton expected to release her 2015 tax returns. we have seen the past ten years of her tax returns. tim kaine expected to release ten years of his tax returns. and their strategy is to turn up the pressure on donald trump to release his tax returns. what's in those returns, as you were just talking about. and this is aimed at kind of fitting into their broader argument against donald trump, secretary clinton on the trail yesterday painting him effectively as a fraud when it comes to being a businessman. trying to undercut his key argument for why he says he should be president of the united states. now, today they are also releasing a new web ad which

includes republicans calling on donald trump to release his taxes. take a look. >> you know if you're running, at a minimum probably you're going to have to show your returns. but if you didn't see the tax returns, you would think there is almost like something wrong. what's wrong? >> as you guys were discussing, donald trump says he can't release his returns because he's being audited, but of course we know warren buffett, who is also a billionaire businessman, a clinton surrogate, says i'll release my returns if you release your returns. so far he's not biting on that saufr. secretary clinton yesterday in michigan laid out her economic plans and it fit into this broader strategy in which he's making the argument, particularly to working class blue collar workers that she's going to be stronger on the economy. donald trump, of course, earlier this week said, no, he's the one stronger on the economy. there's this real fight for those voters because they are the voters who could make all of the difference in the rust belt in these critical swing states that secretary clinton or donald

trump would need to win in order to win the white house. but again, this terms of this being a distraction, i think it is fair to say their goal is to turn up the pressure on donald trump, to highlight the fact that he has not yet released his tax returns, something that almost every other presidential candidate has done in modern history, thomas. >> we'll wait on that release from clinton-kaine. a note from the irs, nothing prevents individuals from sharing their own tax information when under audit. kristen welker, great to see you, thanks for putting up with me and waiting on me. after launching his presidential bid this week, evan mcmullin at just landed on his first ballot. he joins us exclusively and he has news to break about other ballots where he will be included. mcmullin has said donald trump is a larger threat to our national security than isis. plus -- >> it just felt like we were going down. i was scared. >> so in another news today,

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you have a chance to do something that will be earth shaking. i literally mean it, earth shaking. you've got to get your people out to vote. and especially in those states where we're represented -- i'm having a tremendous problem in utah. utah is a different place. i don't know, is anybody here from utah? i mean it's -- i didn't think so. we're having a problem. >> all right. so a rare admission there from donald trump after a tough week

of falling poll numbers and gop defections. more republicans parting from trump this week and the question now, who will they be voting for? so enter evan mcmullin, a former chief policy director for house republicans and a former cia official who is now running as an independent bid for the white house. campaign headquarters, guess what, they're in utah. mr. mcmullin joins us for his first national tv interview since making the ballot in colorado. mr. mcmullin that news broke late last night. your campaign saying it's going to compete in all 50 states. if we look at the deadlines for the independent candidates, florida, georgia, new hampshire, they passed. how will you successfully get on 50 state ballots? >> thomas, great to be with you today. there's a lot of misunderstanding of how candidates can get on ballots. it's through petitions in states we haven't missed the deadline but there are many other ways. we're working with minor parties. we've had a number of minor parties reach out to us, they

want to collaborate with us on that. we're preparing some legal action. there are a variety of ways. so we're going to pursue all of those. we are, as you pointed out, only four days into this and already on colorado's ballot, which is of course a very important place to compete. and we're going to compete across america in a variety of really important states. >> the california deadline is today. will you be on that ballot? >> we'll see. we'll be pursuing a number of ways to get on ballots across the country. obviously we're entering this race very late. this isn't ideal, this wasn't intended. i personally have said before many times that i wish someone else had stepped forward to do this months and months ago. they didn't, however. and here we are and i felt that it was the last moment when a candidate could still compete broadly across the country. so that's when we've entered and we're going to deal with it. i've got a great team. they have been making great preparations on their own independent of me and we're going to compete in a serious way across the country.

this is a national campaign. >> when you just said that, someone should have done this soon erks i think of lilly tomlin and the search of signs for intelligent life in the universe. i always wondered why somebody didn't do that, and i was somebody. so achieving some initial ballot success, who state are you targeting or are you looking to be a drag on trump? >> not at all. we just got into this race four days ago. we are early. >> you're fresh, yes. >> but donald trump was losing by 10% already to hillary clinton when we entered. that was his own doing. i mean donald trump is a disastrous candidate. i think he's a fundamentally weak person which makes him, i think, a disastrous person. hillary clinton isn't a strong candidate either. but the fact that donald trump is down by 10% at this stage and still saying the ridiculous things he does that are so unpresidential at the very least

just shows that this is not a guy who has any chance of beating hillary. and i think that's something that a lot of people are starting to understand very clearly now. i'm in washington, we've been in new york and utah and we're back in washington now. we are overwhelmed by the number of staffers here in washington and members of congress who have also reached out. people are frustrated. they know donald -- they have known donald is terrible fo quite some time, but now they see clearly -- >> but the tweet with him saying it's sarcasm about the isis founder remarks helps clean any of that up? you have said when it comes to national security, and correct me if i'm wrong, but in an interview that he is more of a threat to national security than isis. why do you feel that way? >> yeah. well, i feel that way because it's true. donald trump is undermining the ideals of this country that bring great power and influence to our nation. what i'm talking about is just

basic things, like we're a country where people of all religions are welcome, people of all faiths, ethnicities, nationalities. we're a diverse, pluralistic country and we cherish this. there's something very tangibly important about this. people around the world, countries and citizens all over the world see that. they watch us. they watch everything we do. and they see that value. and that generates tremendous good will across the world for us. that means that people are willing to work with us, work with our military, our intelligence officers, our diplomats, our businessmen and women. and that allows -- that gives us great power and we depend on these relationships in order to fight terrorism and in order to meet different challenges that our country faces. donald trump is attacking those core ideals and, therefore, damaging that good will. this is the same strategy, by the way, that putin uses in other countries and in our own

country, and donald trump is doing the work of putin for him in our nation. to think that he would be a president of our -- of this great country is absolutely unconscionable. we absolutely can't let that happen. >> you bring up vladimir putin. to my face in 2013 in moscow, he said he did have a relationship with vladimir putin. he went on with that narrative until 2014 until just recently confronted by those facts said, no, he doesn't. so it really is trying to pin him down on what is fact and what is fiction has been difficult through this campaign season. here you enter, money is a major issue. muscle also is going to be an issue for you. so let's just start for twith t money. how much are you going to need to do this? >> i'll answer that question, but let's put aside these games of trying to listen to trump to understand what trump is about. let's call a spade a spade. we know that donald trump has a relationship with vladimir

putin. we know that donald trump is a bigot. we know that donald trump has zero experience in fighting terrorism and doesn't know the first thing about it. we know that he is dividing our country at a time when we need unity. these are the things we know. let's be honest with ourselves. let's call a spade a spade. he is not fit to be our president. he's a terrible opponent to hillary clinton. and we can do better on all counts and that's what i hope to offer. as far as money, we have been so encouraged by the overwhelming amount of support we have received from regular americans, hard-working americans who are chipping in what they can to help this cause. these are people who have been highly frustrated with the options they have been given this year from the two major parties. additionally, major donors are reaching out. obviously those discussions are sensitive, but they have been moving along and we've been, again, pleasantly surprised candidly that the support has come so quickly. >> less than 90 days to go, time

isn't on your side, but we hope to have you back on. >> i would love that, thomas, thank you. >> thank you, sir. so we head to rio and we talk about what's taking place in south america, especially when it comes to one of our favorite american heroes, michael phelps, heading back into the pool today after breaking nearly a 2,000-year-old olympic record and he picked up his 22nd gold medal. also a pair of simones cemented their place in olympic history. a live report coming up from brazil after this. ♪ mapping the oceans. where we explore. protecting biodiversity. everywhere we work. defeating malaria. improving energy efficiency. developing more clean burning natural gas. my job? my job at exxonmobil? turning algae into biofuels. reducing energy poverty in the developing world. making cars go further with less. fueling the global economy. and you thought we just made the gas. ♪ energy lives here.

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we've been hearing so much about how you're a digital company, so you can see our confusion. ge is an industrial company that actually builds world-changing machines. machines that can also communicate digitally. like robots. did you build that robot? that's not a robot, that's my coworker earl. he builds jet engines with his human hands. what about that robot? that is a vending machine, ricky. john, give him a dollar. so we have breaking news out of louisiana. a car surrounded by water as this flood threat there has turned very serious due to heavy rains. flash flood warnings have been issued in parts of the state. things may only get worse as we go into the weekend. bill karins is standing by. bill, explain what they have seen and what the forecast holds the next 48 hours. >> this was our big fear going into this week. we knew we had a tropical

entity, it wasn't a tropical storm or tropical depression, but it was acting like one and it was going to sit over the gulf. we were wondering if it would dump a ton of rain. last night it really materialized and clicked into gear. this huge radar shield, the yellows are moderate rain, the oranges are heavier rain and the reds torrential rain. this has sat for six hours, at least six hours over the same areas of northern louisiana. this is an historic rain event. some areas have picked up a foot of rain in just the last 12 hours alone. there are many water rescues, a couple of towns that are cut off. we know there's water into homes. there's one river that's already at its record crest that goes back to 1958, so it's a very historic flood right now. mostly rural sections of louisiana north of the baton rouge area and in southern mississippi. those are the worst spots here. these areas in red are the flash flood warnings. a lot of these what we call flash flood emergencies so that means we know that we have horrific flood ongoing. we have life-threatening

flooding taking place in this area. so we know interstate 55 is closed in the region, we know interstate 10 near baton rouge has been closed. we know that the lsu campus has been closed for the day because of the flooding in this area. it is pouring right now. it should lighten up later tonight and then into tomorrow so that means we have rivers now that are already at record. the volume of water going down these is incredible. downstream it's just going to get worse. as long as it continues to rain, we'll have trouble for people to get to these people. that's the problem right now, it's raining so hard in this region and our computers are estimating the possibility of another 10 inches of rain in areas that just picked up a foot since midnight. that's what you'd expect with a stalled-out hurricane or tropical storm. that's the equivalent of what we're dealing with here in louisiana. so, again, lsu campus closed, interstate 55 closed, interstate 10 is closed through the region and we have at least four towns, population less than a thousand, that are cut off from all of civilization. there's no way to drive in or

drive out. they have people going into boats. fire departments, national guard are trying to rescue these people now. >> very serious problem there and we'll continue to watch it right here on msnbc over the weekend. thank you, sir, appreciate your time. we switch gears to talk about rio. and it was an amazing night for team usa there in brazil. gold after gold after gold. in swimming and gymnastics. and last night as the three people on your screen there, michael phelps, simone biles and simone manuel showed up and showed out for the u.s. simone manuel the first african-american female swimmer to win a gold medal in an individual event at the olympics, a feat she does not take likely as she told nbc's chris jansing. >> it's definitely been a long journey. just getting into the sport and not seeing many people like myself. so just to be an inspiration to others hopefully and get them into the sport means a lot because it's been a tough dream for me and hopefully me paving the way won't make it as hard for someone else. >> all right.

chris jansing joins us right now. chris, what a night. it was amazing. i stayed up super late. >> reporter: extraordinary. and worth it, right? >> totally worth it. >> reporter: yeah, records smashed. americans dominating. the one and only michael phelps, there's start there. he has now supposed a man who won his 12th individual gold medal in 152 b.c. phelps now has 13 individual golds, 22 golds overall, 26 medals total winning the 200 im by astonishing 2 seconds. ryan lochte only managed fifth, clearly stunned and disappointed when i talked to him after the swim. he told me he will look forward to maybe going up against phelps again. he calls phelps the king. also making history last night, simone manuel, as you mentioned, huge upset. she finished in a dead heat with a canadian to become the first african-american woman to win individual swimming cold.

>> oh, the tears come again. you know, it just -- it breaks you to put so much into something every day and to come up so short over where you think you can be. i put my heart into that race and the time was nowhere near what i thought i was capable of, but i did the best that i could and that's all i can ask for, so now i think i definitely deserve a little downtime. >> reporter: that was the dominant swimmer from 2012, missy franklin. obviously her classiness intact even though she leaves these olympics without a medal. lots of medals for simone biles, proving last night she is the greatest, nearly perfect while seeming effortless in gymnastics. her floor routine breath taking in its gravity-defying brilliance. her teammate and good friend aly raisman came in a strong second. a tearful finish for her on the

floor exercise for silver. they have more competitions, could win more medals. this morning, check it out, they're on the kellogg's special k box. thomas. >> a must have box. so the must-see events in rio are what? >> reporter: those two dominant american swimmers are back in the pool. phelps could actually distance himself even more from any future swimmers in the history books with the 100-meter butterfly and it's katie ledecky's final swim of these games. her strongest event. if she wins this 800 freestyle, she will be only the second person to win three individual freestyle events in a single games. by the way, katie is simone manuel's roommate and katie tweeted her last night. i asked simone what they might do to celebrate. she said maybe have a dance party. they're going to be at stanford together in the fall, so watch out, california. >> yeah, they'll be very popular.

chris, i may have gotten a little choked up there watching missy franklin and thinking about ryan lochte, these valiant efforts they gave, they gave it their heart, they gave it their all. we were cheering and rooting for them. it didn't turn out the way they wanted. you saw lochte's hair up close. what color is that? >> reporter: it's sort of a greenish blue. >> not done by the water, right? >> reporter: yeah, the chlorine in the water but it does not change the overall appearance which i would say is -- well, you judge for yourself. >> hey look, i'll send you a text, i hear you. nbc's chris jansing. chris, great to see you. i hope you're having fun in rio. thanks so much. our olympic coverage begins here on msnbc today at noon eastern. catch up with the very latest headlines, "mtp daily" at 5:00 p.m. eastern. we've got donald trump rallying voters in pennsylvania today, scheduled to appear in erie in just a few hours. jacob rascon is on the ground there and he will speak with

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yeah. chase. so you can. so, today donald trump visits the battleground state of pennsylvania. this afternoon his rally is with voters in erie. then later today altoona, prchl p.a. yet our latest nbc news/wall street journal/marist poll finds him trailing hillary clinton in that spot, the democrat up by 11 points. jacob rascon is in erie. a lot of unhappiness for the tone of the rhetoric from trump but what are you hearing from the folks coming out waiting hours to see the gop nominee? >> reporter: anger among certain republicans and unhappiness, but not these republicans. this is his core of supporters. the support as you might imagine from them is unwavering. but even some true believers are beginning to doubt -- not doubt

their candidate, but doubt whether he can overcome to win. we have a couple of people here we are going to talk to. this is norm and this is logan. logan a first-time voter. let me ask, if you could give advice to your candidate now, what would you say? >> to mr. trump, i would say keep your mouth shut. to be frank. he could take a lesson from his kids, who is such a class act. i think some of that has hurt him a little bit. he needs to get on track and stick with the issues. definitely a huge trump fan. >> and you were telling me that everything is on the line, that's why it's so important. >> yeah. >> logan, to you, a first-time voter. you're seeing for the first time or really he's behind in the polls more than he's ever been. if you could give some advice to trump. >> it would be along the same lines. i would tell him to tone it down a little. i don't want him to lose his, you know, his message about being himself, how he is not

politically correct. that's what i like about him. but at the same time i think as the debates come closer, i think he needs to tone things down a bit. when he has so many viewers watching him, that will be key to swinging some of those voters. >> and just to be clear, your support for him is unwavering, you're going to vote for him. >> yeah, i will vote for trump over hillary any day of the week. >> thank you, norm and logan, thank you so much. this is a pattern that we are seeing and really for the first time in the last couple of weeks that even some of the true believers are beginning to admit if they could give him some advice, they would tell him to tone it down. not because they don't believe in their candidate, but they believe the mass media -- he needs to tone down the political incorrectness. >> love hearing from logan who's going to be a first-time voter and he understands the value of the upcoming debates and how many people undecided will be

tuning in to check it out. i'm joined by joyce kauffman, a radio talk show host in south florida who supports donald trump. joyce, it's great to have you with me because we're at this moment now at the end of the week with donald trump walking back his statements, the isis founder remarks about president obama and hillary clinton, calling it sarcasm. we have gop senator bob corker coming out saying trump went too far. what are you telling your radio show listeners? >> well, it's what they're telling me that's important and they don't think he's going too far. i think this is sort of an organic movement that the media can't really make any sense of. this doesn't fit any of our narratives and any of our parameters. neither do the pollsters know how to accurately poll this. he's beat back 16 very qualified republican candidates and we're all sitting here going it's not going to last. >> well, a lot of people are scratching their heads about this. you're right, the political paradigm has been turned upside down. as we see with jacob, folks

interested in him, dad and son both out want to hear his message, but they do think that donald trump needs to tone it down a little bit, especially when it comes to the debate stage when more people will be tuning in and we've got dozens of republican party insiders having this plea with the rnc over trump. they have the meeting today that they have told us publicly is routine, but there is a fear that rnc resources are going to be diverted to down-ballot people that are vulnerable, down-ballot republicans. so if donald trump wants to maintain his strategy over the next less than 90 days till the election, would you advise for getting more supporters, those that aren't already on board, that he needs to be a little more big tent? >> well, i'm not sure that he's the one who needs to do it. i think he's got some surrogates out there that are doing a great job. certainly mike pence is doing a great job, huckabee, rudy

giuliani. they're able to make more sense perhaps of what he's trying to get across to the american people. but i think his style is what's propelled him to the top. as much as you may not like it, there's a movement in this country right now that is grateful that someone is speaking up to the establishment and someone is actually speaking up to us in the media. they're sick of us declaring what's right -- >> i don't know if youmeyou meau as me or you representing all media. but i think folks doing this work dedicatedly and for decades now and covering political campaigns are sick of the bs, right? we want to be dealing with honest brokers who are going to tell us if they have a relationship with vladimir putin or not. who are going to stick with the term of the president being the founder of isis or not. give us a straight narrative of the economy and not leave everybody wondering that it's

sarcasm or not. if he says the isis founder stuff is sarcasm, how do we know that his policy decisions aren't the same thing? >> i think the same is true of both the candidates. the difference is that he's much more colorful for you to cover or for me to cover than hillary clinton is. she seems very bland and dry next to him, very official, very staid, but in reality she's not giving any more information that we don't have to filter, it's just how we filter it. i'd like to know how much the foundation was involved and how many people on her staff were working both ends at the state department and in the foundation, but we're not drilling that point home at all. >> no, we certainly are. we are certainly covering all those aspects and there's still many questions with the clinton folks and kaine folks putting out tax returns today. do you care or do your listeners care that donald trump won't release his? >> yeah, i think it would probably be in his best interest to release it. then again, when mitt romney did

that, it didn't help his candidacy at all. a lot of this is really -- we're in unknown territories. you and i both know that this is -- you know, this is going to be an election that turns on the will of the people. who they are and how they're going to come out and vote is questionable. you don't have much enthusiasm on the democratic side. hillary clinton doesn't, you know, make people want to jump up and get involved. on the other hand, you've got this new group of organic people who probably never participated before and they're spurring on the trump campaign. so i'm not going to be the one to say whether this works or not. i think in the second week of november you and i can have a really good discussion -- >> i'd love to. >> -- about whether trump's strategy worked. >> hindsight being 20/20, i would love to. great to have you on. say hi to all your radio listeners for us in south florida. appreciate your time. >> sure will, thank you. (vo) stank face. a universal expression of disgust, often caused by

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the rnc and trump campaign staffers will be meeting. they say it's just routine, but trump is under pressure to right the ship just three weeks after formally accepting the republican nomination. but when asked if he's going to be pivoting, he wants to stick to his campaign's year-long mantra, let trump be trump. >> you can't and you don't want to, i certainly don't think it's appropriate to start changing all of a sudden when you've been winning. >> if she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. although the second amendment people, maybe there is, i don't know. in many respects, you know, they honor president obama. isis is honoring president obama. he is the founder of isis. he's the founder of isis, okay? he's the founder. he founded isis. and i would say the co-founder would be crooked hillary clinton.

>> so i had a long, beautiful speech written and i read it -- >> all right, sue, through all of that, donald trump has said that he was joking now or being sarcastic. he put that out via tweet today. anne gearan joins me now. so, anne, should we in the media buy donald trump's defense of it being sarcasm? and if we do, does that then apply to everything else he has told us as he's running for president? >> thomas, it really wasn't sarcasm, it was not in the moment. when you listen to those clips and then you double down on it, by the way, in two interviews afterwards. when you listen to those, he is being only slightly facetious. it's not sarcasm, it's not also him making a declarative statement that he thinks is 100% true, although i'll note that radio host hugh hewitt actually tried to give him an out twice. >> yeah. >> saying, i know what you mean,

you really don't mean that exactly, do you? and trump is like, yeah, i do. so i mean trump wasn't taking the lifeline he was being given. but, no, it's not sarcasm. and it is illustrative of trump's larger problem this week, which is he couldn't seem to get out of his own way. there were unflattering things that he could have said about hillary clinton -- >> right. >> some new e-mails came out. >> is that going to persist when we think about they're releasing taxes today, clinton-kaine, their returns. but there are questions about whether there are any pay-for-play inferences, the clinton foundation to her time at state. >> yeah. those are separate issues. we do expect to see the 2015 hillary clinton tax return if not today then very soon. the campaign has pledged that, and tim kaine will be releasing ten years' worth of tax returns.

separately, more e-mails came out this week that do at least raise a question about whether aides from the clinton foundation felt free to call aides to hillary clinton at the state department and seek favors. that is a long way from saying that she did anything specifically to help somebody or certainly specifically to help a lobbyist or a foreign government. >> we'll have to see when that is all vetted out. anne, i've got to jump. happy friday to you. we'll be right back after this.

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would suffice for jordan's bachelor party. i don't need a sword, i'm a firemaid. ding dong! i'm going to give this place a killer review. i don't know, i just always thought maybe my bachelor party would be a little less g-rated. wench! ahhh! ahhh hahaha... oooh! party time! party boy! ok, ok. mm hm, party time. hmm, mmm, mmm... thank you for your time today. we'll get links out for the peter navarro interview and evan mcmullin because i'm looking at your tweets now. thank you for those. the nice ones anyway. my colleague, kate snow, picks things it right now. >> the nice one, i love it. did you stay up as late as i did last night? >> i had to cut it at 10:30. >> i was watching