even his wife ann got in on some of the fun showing off some of her famous clog dancing during kaine's second song. in case you're wondering what kaine beer of choice was frances after playing allcountry that a will be asked to return home immediately. if they don't do it, we will return them home. >> he has no idea what he's talking about. even confronted with the facts, he doesn't want to learn them. few times he tries to deal with the facts, he reveals a profound misunderstanding what's at stake. >> good morning. it is tuesday august 16th. mika -- where is mika this

morning. >> monaco. >> i thought yesterday. >> on a hot streak. giving it up. mama needs a new pair of something -- >> shoes. >> trucks. >> barnicle. she still hasn't got her truck. he welched, ku believe that. what a time by speech yesterday. did you write that? >> no, but i did watch it. >> we managed to get bloomberg politics and host "with all due respect" mark halperin. also council on foreign relation richard haass. correspondent kasie hunt and in washington senior editor and white house correspondent for the "huffington post" sam stein. so richard, what do you make -- there's so much to talk about this morning. marco rubio says that donald trump is a con man but he's still supporting him.

rudy giuliani forgot about tuesday morning -- minor detail, forgot about tuesday morning in 2001. the speech. what did you think of the speech, trump's speech? >> two parts or three parts. one is the history. one, selective in who he opinions responsibility on. shouldn't say something about previous administration, really. left middle east off the hook. the real reason we have this problem in the middle east is deep flaws in the world. secondly introduced what i thought was the -- >> richard we're at the top of the show. i just wanted an i like it or don't like it. make it brief. what to do. >> came to what to do, a pretty empty cupboard. >> look at that. cupboard.

haas. i like that. a new poll shows hillary clinton with a nine-point lead over donald trump. the latest nbc survey monkey online poll finds clinton leading trump 50-41. when the field is expanded to libertarian and green party candidates, however, clinton's lead shrinks three points 53-47. 42% said clinton had the personality and temperament to serve, 20% said she shares their values. 11% said honest and trustworthy. >> 11%, pretty good. >> just 17% said trump had the personality and temperament, 23% said he shares their values, 16% said he's honest and trustworthy. hillary clinton's putting a hold on television ads in three battleground states. they are suspending in colorado, pennsylvania and virginia until at least the end of september.

the news comes amid clinton's strong showing in the latest wave of swing state polling up 11 in colorado -- 14 in colorado, 11 in pennsylvania and 13 in virginia. >> so mark, that's obviously huge news. >> it's stunning. when we learned about this yesterday, i literally couldn't believe it. it takes a lot to make me credit lsu. to take tv off the air in those three states suggests a degree of confidence. can trump win without these three states, yes, but very difficult. >> you look at the polls. not only is she blowing him out, he doesn't have field operations out there. he doesn't have tv ads. why spend the money when you're up by 14. >> i think the question is whether or not the earned media trump is getting is functionally matching that tv money. i think the super pacs have been up and down, up and down

particularly in colorado. one of the things they have been looking for, if we take our tv down off the air, is trump still matching us in earned media, are we losing ground. >> the earned media isn't helping him. the earned media that helped him in the primary is hurting him now for the same reasons we said six months ago it would help him in the primary and hurt him now. >> that's the theory going off the area. if, in fact, his earned media advantage has flipped and become a disadvantage, they can afford to do this. they talk about states like georgia and arizona as places they might expand into. the question now is do they have the opportunity to go on offense or stay on defense. >> i think offense. i'll tell you what, i looked yesterday beyond the ad. the new cook political report they were going state by state in the electoral college. hillary had 272 electoral votes based on their projections. i looked at every blue state.

i couldn't find a single one where i thought, actually they may have that one wrong. donald is going to win that one. it looks right now if you believe everything you read, she's got 272 locked down as of now. >> yeah, that's right. the new electoral college rankings from cook political report show hillary clinton already projected 270 vote threshold needed to win with 76 electoral votes still in the toss-up column clinton is estimated to have 272 to trump's 190. the republican nominee could sweep all of the remaining electoral votes and still come up short. >> let's look at that really quickly. look at that map and somebody tell me what's the state that trump wins that's blue or shaded blue. >> look, it starts with ohio and florida. he's got to come back in those states. >> no, no, no. i'm saying even if he wins. he could win under this scenario, he could win florida, georgia, ohio, iowa, nevada. >> that's why i say it starts.

>> and lose. and still lose. look at the blue state. what blue state does donald trump have a shot at? pennsylvania? he's down double digits there, virginia, down double digits, north carolina, virginia, down double points. >> always a challenge for the electoral college because democrats are dominating. he needs a national comeback. he's not going to get pick-off individual states given current national deficit. he got pretty good coverage for his speech. unforgiving. if you're down this much in electoral college every map shows down, it is very difficult to come back. >> richard, so he had a day where he didn't set himself on fire. what happens today? what happens tomorrow? we're getting to a point now he's gone into this routine so

mu, it's almost baked into the cake. there is no great comeback for donald trump. >> it's not as though his opponent doesn't have vulnerabilities. the challenge almost structural, can an unconventional candidate run a conventional campaign for a while and go after his opponent the way any other candidate would. >> how many days has it been since hillary clinton has held a press conference. >> i stopped counting. >> does it matter? >> it doesn't matter. >> donald, he'll give a speech and go out and step all over his speech. >> the bar is so low. we're saying, hey, here is a round of applause for donald trump for sticking to prompter. >> every time that happens, the next day he goes out and talks about second amendment solutions or goes after gold star mothers. again, at this point -- just like in the fall i was trying to figure out how a republican could beat donald trump, we're at a point now on august 16th

where i'm trying to figure out, what's trump's comeback. like i said, this has to be a national comeback. i don't see a way forward for him. i just don't at this point. >> i think you speak for many republicans, joe, when you say that. look, i think that the challenge -- richard is right. she did that interview with fox news, one of the last time we saw her sit with reporters and she made a mistake talking about her e-mails. there as reason she hasn't had a press conference since december of last year heading into iowa caucuses. they know it's a potential vulnerability for her and the more they can control every step, the less chance they have to open that up. i think republicans would say, also to your point, there's so much for donald trump to work with with hillary clinton, so much, and he's just for whatever reason not doing it. >> but he gives hillary clinton so much more. it's a very giving relationship. i hear sam stein cough.

>> telltale gn >> it's not that we forgot you were there, sam, but we forgot you were there. i guess the biggest problem for donald trump is at this point everybody has seen the routine. it's baked into the cake. what's he going to do in the next couple of months that's going to change. you know, you're also looking at campaigns going in a certain direction, what's the dynamic that changes the race? i really don't see it. hillary is not going to dissolve in a debate. >> no. >> there may be a natural tight think in some of these states but what's the way forward to get beyond the wall of 2 2 votes. >> first of all i'm waiting for richard's third point. whose piano. >> that's mine. transfer. here we go, ready? >> rugby. >> liverpool reject new crystal palace. yeah. >> that's the thing that helps

trump right there. >> crystal palace is not going to get -- that's the problem. >> certainly suggests trump cannot skip debates. there's talk about skipping him because he's upset how the hosts will work out or when the night will be, if it corresponds with a football game. he can't afford at this juncture to skip any big event of he's got to hope for some sort of monumental victory, the likes of which even mitt romney against barack obama never achieved. no one expects that. hillary clinton is very poised in these debates, very prepared. no one would expect her to stumble. it's tough to see if perhaps there is something from these fbi notes about the clinton interview. perhaps there's some news from obama care rates that come out in november. but even then, even in the most

rosie scenarios -- colorado, virginia, new hampshire if they pull out, a double digit state, authorizes the states, if she has all those states, she wins. that says a lot about current state of affairs. >> how does he change the dynamic. >> i think if you're talking about trump comeback. that's all that's in play because he's clearly behind. debates are obviously important. if his ads are really good. if he starts to talk simply about changing washington with some discipline. he needs hillary clinton to make mistakes. he either needs a new clinton controversy or he needs her to make a series of mistakes. >> mark, why hasn't he run any ads? he's sitting on apparently millions and millions of cash object hand. he raised apparently $80 million in june. where are the ads? >> i think at this point launching ads in august is probably not the smartest thing. >> reservations. >> they may look back and say it was a mistake. i'd be stunned. >> what about targeting?

what about microtargeting? >> they rely on the rnc for that. they are never going to build an operation -- >> they don't have states -- one office in florida. mitt romney had almost two dozen offices. >> one office. >> we called up a bunch of these offices prior to the convention and we got extensive number of voicemails, numbers that weren't set up. we got in touch with people who said they weren't going to open an office until after the convention. there was so much time between the time he secured the nomination and now in which he, rnc should have been set up field operations, making ad reservations, nothing strategizing. they just didn't do it. >> that's the thing if you look at it. james cargill said, this isn't a dysfunctional campaign, this isn't an errant campaign, this

isn't a bizarre campaign, this isn't a campaign at all. there is no campaign here. you think about it, mark just said if he wins, he's not going to win with a ground game. he's not going to win with air campaign he has no tv. he's not going to win on disciplined communication, he's got nothing. it is donald trump just flying by the seat of his pants every day. >> the pivot. people waiting for campaign to pivot, waiting for the campaign to pivot, to become a campaign. what you're essentially saying is time has almost run out on that. >> time has run out. >> for lots of us. >> on organizing. >> so then the question is whether you could simply do some version of the brexit where you just get miraculous turnout and it just happens. >> there are not enough --

>> there are two examples to look to about whether this matters. >> there's not enough old white people to come out and shock everybody the morning after. it's 2016, not 1980. >> right. the two things in the primary i think might be relevant here are the places where donald trump got outorganized, he lost in iowa. where he was both outorganized and didn't have the kind of long-term depth that say hillary clinton has is in ohio. >> let's talk objectively about how prepared and organized brooklyn is, the clinton campaign, compared to trump campaign, which is not organized. >> trump tower. >> keep in mind, this is a group of people who lost to barack obama for this very reason. that is a lesson they have taken to heart from the very first day of the primary campaign and now into this general election. this has been almost a singular focus for them. part of the reason super pac on tv, they want to invest more in

organizing in florida. it's not cheap to do that. >> something else about this clinton campaign in 2016 compared to 2008. in 2008 when they screwed up, nobody would admit they screwed up. hillary has got us. hillary is queen. all bow to hillary. now, okay, help me out. i know. we get it. we get it. there's more than understanding. i don't know people kick down the door and say stop doing that. there is more of an understanding, more of an openness. hey, yeah, that really wasn't a good fox news interview, and she's going to avoid crossing the fbi director in the future. >> make no mistake, like all campaigns there's infighting there. think about the number of times you've read articles about the campaign like and in the "new york times" this week about trump campaign. in-fighting, back stabbing, blaming each other.

there is none of that. podesta, palmieri says we're not going to have this in the campaign. >> it's also easier when you're winning. >> they had their backs against the wall against sanders. james cargill, said the trump campaign is not a bad campaign, not a messed up campaign, not a dysfunctional campaign, there is no campaign. >> it's existential. >> i'm going to let you get to your three points. >> thank you. >> just really succinctly. >> look, the first part obviously blaming the obama/clinton quote, unquote, team. they are somewhat vulnerable there, libya, syria, things they did, didn't do. it's the most effective part of trump's speech. >> the problem there is, though, trump -- never said i support going to iraq. told howard stern i guess we need to go there. same with libya, let's go into

libya, blow up libya. >> a problem as messenger. >> he was. he's on video talking about going into libya and cleaning the place out. >> so there's that. >> so there's that. >> second the argument to the victor goes the spoils. we should have stayed in iraq and held the oil. ku imagine what the terrorism would have been against u.s. forces. we actually could have united iraq. the bad news is it would have been against us. that's the downside. that's a different sort of argument. thirdly, what was weakest in the speech is what to do about the stuff. an international conference, an international commission, extreme vetting of immigrants. >> extreme vetting is a move from muslim ban. he hasn't said i'm backing off the muslim ban but he actually -- >> he rephrased it. cutting off money, fighting -- in a sense, there was very little put forward that we're not already doing.

that to me was the weakness of the speech. if he got are everything he wanted, it's not clear to mewelde be any more successful with what we're doing. >> live from "morning joe," live from philadelphia where hillary clinton is campaigning today. milwaukee where donald trump is going to be rallying his supporters. plus brand-new polling this morning from the very place both candidates are promising to challenge. we're going to see what washington insiders say about the state of the race. also utah. utah hasn't gone democratic in a long time because of a new independent candidate qualifying yesterday, utah may. also marco rubio back in the news saying donald trump is a con man. >> but he's our con man. >> he's his con man. >> endearing. >> here is our bill karins. he's got a check on the forecast. bill, how are w doing? >> severe storms this afternoon. isolated storm or two in new england, which is a rare event. we have to watch that later today. show you pictures. showed you louisiana stuff

yesterday. on sunday there was a horrible fire out in california. this was the clayton county fire. this fire was in lower lake. it's the name of the little town there. in the downtown area where either a little community, 175 homes and businesses including their post office went up in flames in a fast moving fire. that was arson. they did catch the person. at least they have arrested someone who they think is responsible for the blaze. let's talk about the forecast and severe weather threat today. all the heavy rain back with the cold front. when that runs into the humid air east, hot air, storms this afternoon. watch out everywhere from kentucky northwards. this is 51 million people at risk of severe storms including new york city, philadelphia, pittsburgh, albany and boston. if there's going to be tornado best chance for that upstate new york. later this afternoon, this evening, airport delays will be widespread in the northeast later on tonight. we leave you with a shot, of course, the olympics. going to be a great beach volleyball tonight for the ladies. rio at 7:20 in the morning.

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all right. utah, a state that hasn't gone democratic since what? >> since 1964 tsh exact. i came prepared. it's increasingly looking like a battleground state this year. he have an mcmillan qualified to be on the ballot in november potentially squeezing donald trump on the right. op-ed salt lake city newspaper donald trump is following suit with one of his own. clinton in her piece discussed religious liberty and invoked shared work with jon huntsman and the warnings against trump for mitt romney and larry pressler, all mormons. trump went after clinton and president obama for their approach to tax policy, radical islam, immigration, the death of

police officers in dallas and baton rouge. in an apparent reference to his temp ram and tone trump notes a lot of things are said in political campaigns. on religious liberty barack obama and hillary clinton have tried to undermine our religious liberties on the altar of political correctness. they have challenged the rights of businesses and religious institutions to speak openly about their faith. undermining religious liberty has been a trend in democratic party for decades. >> so what about the battle of utah. >> as long as he's playing defense in places like utah and georgia obviously it's a distraction and diversion. that has been a really bad state for him. he has to worry if he does have a big comeback, in a position for 270 electoral votes he may lose it all in utah. >> what about mcmullen. do people think he has a shot of carrying utah. >> he may not carry it but may pull enough votes to not allow

hillary clinton to carry it. >> mitt romney has a lot of power in utah. we saw that in the primary campaign where he got behind ted cruz and made a huge difference. mitt romney at the end of the day, if this is a close race, could have the last laugh with donald trump. >> he stayed quiet, doesn't really want to put himself out there forward. i think if utah was going to make a difference, certainly possible to see him step out there. yes, romney was on the leading edge of establishment republicans who wanted to lead a never trump movement. establishment leaders remember when they were on the same end of rhetoric that sounded a lot like donald trump's. >> you know who else has problems with donald trump. >> marco rubio. is that who you're talking about? he says he stands by calling donald trump a con man in the heat of the -- >> con man, that's bad. you can't support con man.

who would for senate endorse a con man. >> unless you're a republican senator because he also still supports trump for president. here is a look at what rubio said during the primary followed by what he told "miami herald" editorial board yesterday. >> he's a con man. it's time to unmask him for what he is. he's trying to take over the conservative movement even though he's not a conservative. he's a con. he's a con man taking advantage of people's fears and anxieties about the future. >> what we are dealing with here, my friends, is a con artist. he's a con artist. i have a message for mr. trump. mr. trump, donald, maybe we should call him con ald trump. -of- message for him. i will campaign in all 50 states. i'll get in my pickup truck and have to before i allow the party of lincoln and reagan to fall into the hands of a con man. >> still think he's a con man. >> look, i told you guys i stood

by everything i said in mychal pain. that said, we're in a different place now. now we have a binary choice, not between two people or 12 people, this there are two people in the world that are going to be president, donald trump or hillary. >> he looked pained. >> they all looked pained. >> maybe barnicle should get an extra pickup truck to send to marco rubio. >> if somebody is a con man you don't say in the next sentence but i'm supporting a con man. if somebody is a racist, he said donald trump epitomizes racism, you don't say in the next sentence i support somebody who epitomizes racism with his words. he's a con man and racist and you're supporting them.

what does that say about you. >> feels like a non sequitur. >> ohio, pennsylvania, republican senate candidates who are not really going to want to appear with him very often, if at all, whereas hillary clinton will be appearing with all the democratic candidates. >> sam stein, i guess this makes perfect sense because donald trump is running against somebody buzzfeed dug up last night. buzzfeed dug up a 2008 quote saying i support hillary clinton. she's wonderful. >> he's lavished praise. >> you can almost say when it comes to politics, he's a con man. >> you might be able to say that rubio also said he wouldn't trust trump with the nuclear codes. so this is -- >> right. right. >> i do wonder how much this is a problem not just for trump as marco alluded to but how much it is a problem for marco rubio's future. when we look back at this

election, presuming trump does lose, i think the likelihood is he will, presuming he loses by a fair amount, which is likely, too, will we look back at people like marco rubio who wouldn't get on the right side of this equation and wonder if that hurts him. ted cruz -- remember, the day after ted cruz's convention speech, i think you and i both agreed he had overextended himself. he had gone too far. there is a place in between. that's a place people like john kasich and mitt romney have occupied where they have objected to donald trump but done it in a semimuted fashion. rubio is not there. he's trying to have both sides of this. >> kasich did it just right, did it with dignity and explained why he couldn't support donald trump. i don't think a lot of people are going to hold that against john kasich as we move forward. you just can't call somebody a con man in one sentence and support him in the next, racist. donald trump is going away. donald trump, he's had a good

time. he's enjoyed it. he's going to be back in his rolls-royce, he's going to be back on his jet and next year he's going to be flying around from golf course to golf course to golf course living, as he said, a very good life. he's going to be trying to get the u.s. open at the golf course by the white stone bridge. he's going to be fine. these guys that are calling him a racist today, mark halperin, that are still supporting him, they are the ones that are going to be stuck with this after donald trump goes back to, as he calls it, his very, very good life. >> there's already a lot of discussion at the top levels of the republican party now about what a post trump republican party looks like and whether people who have like john kasich and ted cruz in their own ways who have denounced him are going to be better positioned to be leaders of the party than people like marco rubio who continue to support him. i don't know the answer but it's a big topic already. >> even up until now donald trump has managed to get this far by just denying what he said

in the past, even though the video is there to support it. what we saw rubio do is once again reiterate what he had said just a few months ago yet say i still support him. painful to watch. >> the position of ryan at least the argument whether you agree wit or not leadership responsibilities and the rest. someone like marco rubio has free choice. >> i'd say with that leadership with paul ryan goes responsibility. >> fair enough. >> to call that what the republican stands for. if somebody says racist comments, the republican party does not support that. i mean if you're a leader, the responsibility is even greater. i'm not sure the paul ryan story is not over yet. i'm not so sure at some point donald trump bowdens that check and ryan doesn't walk away from it. coming up, i support you, donald trump. and now -- what's that? oh, i support you donald trump. now release your tax returns. see, this is why we don't do

teleprompters. that was one of the most awkwardly written sentences i've ever seen. >> republican mark sanford wrote the sentence. >> mark sanford is now saying, i support you donald trump. >> yes. >> now release your tax returns. >> i love you, now change. >> mark sanford wrote that in the "new york times." we're going to read it. not me. obviously that's not something i can do. roll tide. it's a must read in the must read op-ed when "morning joe" returns. you wouldn't believe what's in this kiester. a farmer's market. a fire truck.

even a marching band. and if i can get comfortable talking about this kiester, then you can get comfortable using preparation h. for any sort of discomfort in yours. preparation h. get comfortable with it. i'm hillary clinton, and i approve this message. michael hayden: if he governs consistent with some of the things he said as a candidate, i would be very frightened. gillian turner: he's been talking about the option of using a nuclear weapon against our western european allies. max boot: this is not somebody who should be handed the nuclear codes. charles krauthammer: you have to ask yourself, do i want a person of that temperament

controlling the nuclear codes? and as of now, i'd have to say no. [bill o'reilly sighs] and as of now, i'd have to say no. i'm not a customer, but i'm calling about that credit scorecard. (to dog)give it. sure! it's free for everyone. oh! well that's nice! and checking your score won't hurt your credit. oh! (to dog)i'm so proud of you. well thank you. get your free credit scorecard at discover.com. even if you're not a customer.

one number 21 in the books. a dog, talked. we're decedent from the mighty wolf. a voice was heard. if you build it, he will come. a girl discovered magic. a revolution began. welcome, to the wonders that happen, everyday. welcome, to it all. comcast.

okay. so we haven't had a chance to congratulate you on set. congratulations. >> thank you. very much appreciated. >> fantastic. you have a date? >> we don't have a date yet. sometime next year after the election. how about we go with that. >> mark, you win. you've been wanting me to put on a jacket all summer. >> i prefer one of your big sweaters. >> i wear sweaters that drove you crazy, this drove you crazy. it's 22 degrees in here. >> i said return of hee haw. >> it's 22 degrees. i'm going to have to put on my jacket. >> i'm waiting for fleece. >> alex. >> meantime all talk about mark sanford. >> barnicle's truck. >> we've got a long list. mark sanford writes in the "new york times," quote, i support you, donald trump. now release your tax returns. to trump demands he release his

tax returns are just a ploy by his opponents and enemies to undermine his campaign. but that obstinate si will have consequences. not releasing his tax returns would hurt transparency in our democratic process. whether he wins or loses, that is something our country cannot afford. i suggest it's not as partisan against mr. trump, i'm a conservative republican who though i have no stomach for his personal style and penchant for regularly demeaning others intend to support my party's nominee. however, my ability to continue to do so will be in part driven by whether mr. trump keeps his word that he will release his tax records. there's a reason a banker wants to see tax returns in determining whether you are eligible for a mortgage. you may talk a good game. tax returns don't. >> so mark sanford suggesting support but wants to see tax

returns. >> steve king his colleague said it's too late to release his concerns, it would only be a distraction. i don't know anybody who thinks he's going to release his returns except for maybe me. >> sanford goes on to point out it's not so much about donald trump but about the precedent not releasing tax returns should set in the future. >> somebody should ask mitt romney. romney released his full tax returns about this point in the process. he released some information earlier in the primary and got taken to task for it. >> yeah. all right. still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> in 2014, isis was operating in seven nations. they were in seven nations. terrible, but that's what it was. today they are fully operational in 18 countries with aspiring branches in 6 more for a total of 24 and many believe that

number is actually 28 to 30 countries. they don't even know. >> we're going to bring in the atlantics graham wood how it's fundamental to understanding what the terror group is about and richard haass get more points when we return to morning. (lionel) ♪it's peyton... ♪it's peyton on sunday mornings.♪ (peyton) you know with directv nfl sunday ticket you can watch your favorite team no matter where you live. like broncos or colts. (cashier) cool. (peyton) ah...18. the old number. ooh. i have got a coupon for that one. (vo) get nfl sunday ticket - only on directv. and watch live games anywhere. ♪

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in the fight against isis. wouldn't that be a good thing? wouldn't that be a good thing? they have much at stake for the outcome in syria and have their own battles with islamic terrorism just as bad as ours. they have a big, big problem in russia with isis. >> all right. a very different donald trump yesterday. >> stuck to prompter. a bit more subdued, came with some foreign policy suggestion of plans going forward. i guess we'll see with our next guest whether or not he agrees with him. joining us former allied commander now dean of flechers law, tufts university, retired four-star navy admiral. he's just been named chief security and analyst for msnbc news and he was vetted by the clinton campaign as a possible

vice presidential candidate. >> so was louis bergdorf. he got a much better job. contributing editor at "the atlantic" whose march story for the magazine what isis really wants is a preeminent piece of reporting on the terror group. >> admiral, talk about what you heard yesterday with donald tru trump. was there a coherent policy the united states could move going forward? >> unfortunately, no. i'm kind of with richard haass on this one, it's where's the beef type of speech. he made a reasonable stab at we ought to try to take international action. he kind of said good dog, nato.

nato has had that counter-terrorism division forever. what's really lacking is anything about how the inner agency of the government would work together, how to use intelligence, cyber private/public communication, the only strategic communication i heard was i hate muslims. that's not going to help us much in the muslim world as i'm sure graham wood can tell you. >> in what ways is it still a threat? >> still trying to attack outside of its territory with some success but contained in the sense it lost territory in core territory. syria and iraq, no question the trablg trajectory is downward, reaching out for terrorist attacks. >> how important is it they are losing ground. graeme wood. seem to me that was the clarion

call across the world, build the caliphate. that you said was sort of the magnet. >> for a long time they said the sign of our success is that we are victorious against a coalition of crusader nations. now to borrow a phrasing, a lot of questions among jihadists who is going to die for a mistake, caliphate. if they believe caliphate is going to win, people are going to it. now not so clear even by their own standards. >> admiral, much to the chagrin of many in his own party donald trump seemed to double down in his speech with regard to relationships he would establish with russia, vis-a-vis specifically fighting isis. what was your take on that? >> well, first of all, there's a fundamental problem and its name is assad. the russians are backing him. he is a terrible dictator who is killing 400,000 of his people in

a civil war. he uses chemical weapons. he uses torture. he violates international law on kind of an hourly basis. so if the russians are going to be backing him, it's going to be very difficult to find a condominium with russians that can actually go after the islamic state very effectively. we can probably do some practical things but i think strategically it's going to be difficult to find common ground. overlying all of it is the continuing occupation of ukraine and annexation of crimea. it's a tough bucket of problems to solve with russia. i don't think we're going to wave it away with a few sentences and a speech. >> graeme, i want to follow up on something you said. if isis is something less of a caliphate and more of a terrorist group, that's a bad momentum for them, what do they do next? how do they reestablish their caliphate momentum. some people suggested saudi arabia. that could be the place on their radar screen where they have the best chance making progress. what's your take on that? >> a couple of ways to pivot. one is the terror attacks in

southeastern europe. saudi arabia they have significant support among general population of saudi arabia and they are hoping they can capitalize on that. they have had attacks within saudi arabia for a long time. they hope it will create a tipping point where there will be enough chaos where they can establish something for real of the third thing they are doing, looking for places where there's already enough chaos, where no one is governing the of place. southern philippines isis has been eyeing, sulu, very strongly held by isis. that kind of place is what they are looking for around the world as a place to sort of reestablish and reseat a caliphate. >> admiral, what's the impact on syria if isis's caliphate gets blown apart in syria and northern iraq? >> initially that's a good thing. the problem that remains is the civil war and how we're going to sort that remains to be seen.

i think this is where potentially you look back to the balkans, a period of time richard haass knows very well when we as an international community effectively imposed a solution that got between worrying ethnicities and religions. boy, that's a big undertaking. job one is really getting rid of the islamic state because of all the things graeme talked about. it's pivot. >> admiral and richard, let me ask both of you -- and graeme, jump in if you like -- syria. what's the solution to syria? we've had people stumble onto this show four years, the smartest thinkers on foreign policy in the world and they have all said the same thing, it's hard. almost like it's too hard. we can't do anything with syria. we've seen what's happened to syria, disintegration, hundreds of thousands that died. chaos in middle east, chaos across europe now. what's the solution if hillary clinton is next president of the

united states, what's the solution? >> i don't think there is a solution if you mean bringing back a normal country where you have central government in charge of all the territory. i think you're more looking at a series of parts, canton to use old idea make it safer in parts of syria so people can stay there or return there. i don't think we can remake syria as a normal country with borders and government controlled territory. >> so what can we do to bring some stability back to the region so at least some refugees can return to syria? >> i'd go back to the balkans model again. that'sssentially what richard is reminding us of. yugoslavia broke apart into seven countries. i think that's the future of syria it's going to require international action and that means involving not only the united states, not only nato but really the global, the big "we." i don't think the united nations is the answer although that

could be used. i think it's going to take effectively a coming together of the western powers, po' texasly with russian assistance, finding an exit for assad, and breaking the place apart. i agree with that. >> graeme. >> syria for a honk time is going to be a complete mess. the best case scenario right now is that syria for years to come will be radically decentralized. there will be nothing that resembles the kind of government i've had before and part of that because bashar al assad's policy has been no other entity than himself that can dpomgovern the country. we have to deal with that and accept it going forward. >> thank you, graeme. we greatly appreciate you guys being here today. coming up next -- >> lately we have a newspaper that's failing badly. it's losing a lot of money. it's going to be out of business very soon. "the new york times." okay.

i love it. >> coming up, we're going to have the man who has single handedly destroying "new york times." we speak, of course, of jeremy peters. he joins the conversation when "morning joe" returns. ♪ ♪ isaac hou has mastered gravity defying moves to amaze his audience. great show. here you go. now he's added a new routine. making depositing a check seem so effortless. easy to use chase technology, for whatever you're trying to master. isaac, are you ready? yeah. chase. so you can. when this busy family... ...got a cracked windshield... ...their dad went to the new safelite-dot-com... ...and scheduled a replacement... ...in just a few clicks. with safelite you don't have to miss a thing. y'all did wonderful! thank you. (girls sing) safelite repair, safelite replace.

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coming up, i was just talking to donny deutsch who is going to be on the show about

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