>> so here we are, heading for the final leg of this finish. new zealand clearly -- jemma jones, the female skipper and jason saunders having a great race here. then they're going into the bro medal position. and nobody even in sight. okay. she's happy. australia rounds the mark in second. well back. but this will be good enough for at least a medal for australia. here comes argentina in sixth. this could be good enough for the gold medal. they cross the line. looking exhausted. two penalty turns and to michal cue lake, argentina will win the gold medal. >> and that's our show for today. we hope you enjoyed it. watch nbc in primetime tonight, as simone biles goes for a fourth gold medal. kerri walsh jennings and april

ross will be on the beach for beach volleyball semifinals. we will see you tomorrow. if it's tuesday, the drip, drip, drip of e-mail news continues, as republicans take aim at clinton's honesty. tonight, a matterle of trust. why hillary clinton fairs even worse than donald trump on trustworthiness. >> i'm not taking anybody anywhere for granted. >> plus, does donald trump really want to win the white house? a lot of people aren't so sure. >> everyone talks about, how, are you going to pivot -- i don't want to pivot. >> and voter i.d. a supreme court appeal that democrats say could leave some voters out in the cold. this is "mtp daily," and it starts right now.

and good evening, i'm steve kornacki. welcome to "mpt daily." we have brand news numbers, big numbers to tell you about in our nbc news/survey monkey poll. we'll have them all for you in just a moment. but we are going to begin with the moment republicans have been desperately hoping for. is this their chance to turn the page on what has been a disastrous stretch for donald trump, as hillary clinton has been surging in the polls? as trump and the gop look to clou their way back into this fight, house republicans are laying out their case for a federal perjury investigation into clinton, and now the fbi is opening up its clinton files, but not without a fight from the clinton campaign. after being pressed by house republicans, the fbi is sending members of congress high little sensitive non-public information about the interview they conducted with clinton during their investigation into her private e-mail server. you'll recall that the fbi

eventually cleared clinton of legal wrongdoing, but delivered a scathing rebuke of how she handled classified information in the first place. now, all of this comes just 24 hours after house republicans laid out their case in a letter to the u.s. attorney's office in washington for a perjury investigation into clinton. in the letter, they note discrepancies between clinton's sworn statements and fbi director james comey's findgs. here are some of the contradictions noted. >> nothing was marked classified at the time i sent or received it. >> was that true? >> that's not true. there were a small number of portion markings on, i think, three of the documents. >> i provided the department with all of my work-related e-mails. >> secretary clinton said all work-related e-mails were returned to the state department. was that true? >> no, we found work-related e-mails, thousands, that were not returned. >> did someone physically look at the 62,000 e-mails or did you

use search terms, i want to know the specifics. >> they did all of that. they went through every single e-mail. >> did her lawyers read the e-mail content individually? >> no. >> now, all of this, of course, gets to the much bigger political question of trust. trust, which has been the clinton campaign's biggest vulnerability, even as hillary clinton has surged in the polls of late. raises the question, could we be in for a repeat of 1968, when a candidate nicknamed tricky dick won big despite trust concerns? republicans have to hope not, because trust issues may be their best shot to get back in the game. and with that in mind, let's take a deep dive into our nbc news poll. we had a punch of new numbers for you, hot off the presses. here is the newest one. new here at 5:00 on the east coast, donald trump and hillary clinton head to head among military households. that's the new group we're looking at here. you see the advantage at ten points. again, this is slipping.

we've talked about this in looking at so many different groups this election. nald trump not performing as well as republicans traditionally perform. not doing as well with the key groups for republicans. this is one of them. this is a disappointing number for donald trump. but we said, we wanted to look at this question of trustworthiness, of honesty in the presidential campaign in light of the republican push on hillary clinton and the e-mails, we'll take a look, first of all, where does the race stand in the nbc news/survey monkey national poll, a nine-point lead for hillary clinton. that's consistent with most polls we've seen for the last couple weeks since the convention. a solid lead there for hillary clinton. so, it raises the question, where are the vulnerabilities, and more specifically, the front-runner? start on trump. we asked a series of questions here about character qualities people say they like to see in presidents in political leaders, the question was asked, do you think donald trump is honest and trust wore think, do you think he has the temperament to serve? do you think he cares about people like you? there's no getting around it. these are dreadful numbers for a

presidential candidate. the only thing that seemed to get a lot of support here, none of the above. the best he did was on shares your values. just over 1 in 5 voters saying he shares those values. that explains a lot of why donald trump is struggling so much in the polls right now. but check this out. look at hillary clinton. run through these same questions on hillary clinton. the numbers are a little better, but they are not much better, and look at this one. honesty, trustworthinestrustwor. 11% of voters. in this nbc news/survey monkey poll. just is 1% s1% say, yes, that i character quality that i would say describes hillary clinton. she does have an advantage over donald trump on temperament to serve. trump's numbers were in the teens there. hillary clinton over 40%. that might account for her broader lead in the polls. but again, that honesty, trustworthy question, that is what republicans are pursuing in this e-mail thing. 11%. and if you are saying, that's just because every republican, neighbor every republican-leaning independent

doesn't think she's honest and trustworthy, check this out. amon democrats, democrats, hillary clinton's own party, is she honest and trust wore think, the number doesn't move. it's 12%. it was 11% with all voters. 12% with democratic voters. so, that represents a serious problem and vulnerability for the clinton campaign. that's the context, that's the backdrop for this republican push on e-mails now. let's get to the action inside the clinton campaign, nbc's kristin welker is live in philadelphia with the clinton campaign, so, kristin, we look at those numbers, republicans see political opportunity, they've been trying to figure out how to capitalize on those numbers for hillary clinton, now, with the e-mails, with getting the memos, the interview memos from the fbi to congress, they see some opportunity. what is the clinton campaign saying about all of this? >> reporter: well, as you can imagine, they are pushing back quite forcefully on the fact that those notes from secretary clinton's interview with the fbi were released to lawmakers.

let me read you a statement from brian fallon and discuss it on the other side, steve. it reads, quote, "this is an extraordinarily rare step that was sought solely for republicans for the purposes of further second-guessing the career professionals at the fbi. we believe that if these materials are going to be shared outside the justice department, they should be released widely so that the public can see them for themselves, rather than allow republicans to mischaracterize them through selective, partisan leaks." and that is really the crux of the clinton campaign argument. that, essentially now, these documents are open to potential leaks. so, they are saying, hey, release these documents to the public so everyone can see. important to point out, steve, these are not the transcripts, these are the notes from the secretary's interview with the fbi. and the fbi said, these documents are not to be shared in any form, if the fbi does not give permission for that to happen. but there's no doubt that this will keep the e-mail story in

the headlines. secretary clinton trying to turn the page here in philadelphia, and she will do so again tomorrow in ohio, a big battleground state, steve. >> all right, kristen, following the clinton campaign in philadelphia. kristen, thank you for that. let's bring in tonight's panel. heather mcgee. charlie black, a veteran republican strategist who has worked with ronald reagan, bush 41, john mccain and mitt romney. and joining the panel, ari melber. so, ari, let's start with you. the republicans are looking for two things here. one, they want to get the memos from the interviews, but those are going to be, as kristen was just saying, they can't be made public, i understand the republicans have to look at these, any member of congress who wants to look at these has to look in a secure facile si, what could they do with this information? >> very little politically. you've reported and explained why it is sensitive, and what the restrictions are, so, this would be for oversight, for the

substantive background information that could inform their approach to all of this. the fbi and doj consider this essentially a closed case. so, the short answer is, not much. >> what about the other front here, they are looking to the u.s. attorney to pursue some sort of perjury charge against hillary clinton for saying in front of congress, you have that testimony there, where she says, did not send or receive anything marked classified, james comey said there were several e-mails that contained some type of marking, not the full marking, but some type of marking. >> legally based on what is known, there is almost nothing to that. and the reason for that is, it's not enough to be caught in some sort of misstatement or error. the actual standard for a perjury investigation which would be rare in the context of testifying to congress, would be that you knowingly misled congress, that you, at the time, were lying. you would have to prove that hillary clinton said there were no classified material, where a later investigation found that there were three that had

markings "c" on them, not just thatfact, but at the time, there's some smoking gun that knowingly misled them. it may be good political hay and certainly relevant to voters, for republicans to try to find ways to emphasize the fact that hillary clinton has said things in public that don't square ultimately with the fbi investigation, it is legally a bridge too far to suggest that that would ever lead to a perjury inquiry, i would also note that they already did all of this in asking the fbi, the exact same issue, what is new here is a new letter to a different part of the government, the doj, everyone remembers the whole reason comey wasch thing is because it's the fbi that does the review, not the persons they just e-mail at doj. >> charlie black, let me ask you about the politics of this. we put the pull numbers up there, those are terrible numbers for hillary clinton when it comes to honesty and trustworthiness. here is what a, maybe a clinton supporter might say, the bottom line, though, is, the clintons have been in the public spotlight for a generation now.

the numbers, honesty, trustworthiness for hillary clinton and her husband have been pretty bad for a generation now. they haven't mattered to this point. why would they start mattering now? >> well, listen, in defense of bill clinton, he never had numbers this bad. honesty and trustworthiness of mrs. clinton is down to her extended family and her staff, and nobody else trusts her. but listen, as long as the coverage about hillary clinton is about e-mails, possible perjury, speculating if she violated the law by using the e-mail server, all of that is bad, it just reinforces her character problems. and this race has a long way to go. donald trump just needs to make himself the acceptable alternative, the representative of change versus the status quo. they don't like her. not enough of them like him, but he could get enough of them. >> we had the, kristen there went through what the clinton campaign is saying about this. here is an interesting angle on this. clinton supporters, maggie

hassen, the governor of new hampshire, she was asked a seemingly simple question today, if she thinks hillary clinton is honest and trustworthy, this is what happened when she was asked that question. >> do you think that she's honest and trustworthy? >> i support hillary clinton for the presidency because her experience and her record demonstrate that she's qualified to hold the job. >> you think she's honest. >> she has a critical plan among others for making college more affordable -- >> do you think she's trustworthy? >> i think she has demonstrated that commitment also to something beyond herself, bigger than herself. >> and by the way, we should say, the governor's staff said she does consider clinton hones have guessed it from that interview. this is somebody running on the same ticket with her in a swing state, is asked that question, and dancing around it like that, that does sort of make the

republican point, doesn't it? >> it's a good illustration of the interplay between the trust number and the much higher number, does she have the temperament to lead. i mean, that's really where the slippage is here. her trust numbers might never budge, but given the candidate whom history has dealt her, that might not matter, because the temperament issue, judging from the polling numbers you just reported today, seems to be paramount in people's minds. >> heather mcgee, that question of temperament, we were running through the qualifies there, 42% of voters saying hillary clinton does have the temperament to serve as president, the question about donald trump was 17%. how much does that blunt the doubts about hillary clinton and honesty? >> i mean, people can answer honesty and trustworthiness in general, but it is really telling that they trust her to have the nuclear codes. it is really telling that they trust her to, you know, fight for the middle class. that's where she's starting to edge him out.

trust with the company. that is where she's starting to take a lead. so, on the issues that really matter to a family's economic security and safety, the fact that she's leading, despite being, and i'll say, just five points behind trump on trustworthiness and honesty, means something about the political class in general, and how little trust there is of the political class in general, but i think the substantive points around the economy, around trusting to lead, that's more significant to people's vote. >> yeah, charlie black, is one of those more of a threshold issue than the other, the question of honesty versus the question of temperament? ultimately, when voters are in the booth and they are hovering over the two names there, does one of those matter more than the other? >> well, they both should be threshold issues, but you have a totally different, unusual race that, where we have two very disliked candidates. you've got between 25% and 30% of the voters who usually vote who don't like either of them. and those are the swing voters. we don't know what they will do.

but it seems to me like getting back on the substantive issues is very important, until very recently, donald trump was leading mrs. clinton on who could handle the economy and who could handle national security and homeland security. he can get that back. those are the two big issues in the campaign. and if people look at him, they want change, 75% of the voters want change. they don't want more obama, and i must say parenthetically that obama care just completely collapsed today, and that's going to be apparent to all the voters and middle class people who might depend on it, so substantive issues will elect donald trump. >> heather, charlie, radikah, charlie, stay with us. the donald trump campaign has millions in the presidential war chest, but it is penny pinching in the air and ground game. is donald trump really in this race to win it? stay tuned.

i actually think i'm doing good. i have the biggest crowds. you're there, you've seen them. nobody's ever had crowds like this, they say. >> do you have people beyond that? >> we're going to have to see. we're going to have to see. >> welcome back to "mpt daily." that was donald trump talking to fox news about the state of the race right now, at least as he sees it. still, therere a plenty of people out there starting to wonder just how serious trump is about actually winning the election in november and becoming president. trump often boasts about large crowds at his rallies, and all of the free media he's received over the course of the campaign, but when it comes to paid media, you'll have a harder time finding him on the air waves. look at the difference in spending on general election tv ads to date. team clinton, her campaign and the pro-clinton super pacs have spent $104 million on tv ads. team trump has spent $12.5 million. and that's not the only staggering number.

here is how much the trump campaign has spent on its own. nothing. zero dollars. so, if he's not spending money on ads, what is he spending his campaign money on? well, there's been talk for months that trump's lack of a ground game, and he still has hardly any campaign staffers on the ground in any of the battleground states. tonight, he's going to be campaigning in wisconsin, that is a state that hasn't gone republican in a presidential election since 1984, with ronald reagan. we're going to take you there in 60 seconds.in s was built with passion... but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet? a farmer's market.ve what's in this kiester.

a fire truck. even a marching band. and if i can get comfortable talking about this kiester, then you can get comfortable using preparation h. for any sort of discomfort in yours. preparation h. get comfortable with it. hhis stellar notebooks will last through june. get back to great. this week sharpie twelve-packs just three dollars. office depot officemax. gear up for school. gear up for great. today on the heels of days of protests in milwaukee, after a fatal police shooting there, donald trump met with law enforcement officials. right now, he is gearing up for a rally in west bend. and that is where we find nbc's hallie jackson. so, hallie, we just asked there, if that last segment there, donald trump, and the question being raised of how much does he actually want to win this, and one of the things people are looking for, well, he's down in the polls, all these troubles we

talked about, is he going to do anything in terms of spending money on ads, adjusting his campaign strategy, is he going to do anything to change his strategy to try to get back in it? what are you hearing on that front? >> reporter: so, listen, when you talk about strategy, steve, when you look at money that was spent on the airwaves from hillary clinton, you have donald trump with a pretty formidable war chest, but if you went out and bought a cup of coffee this morning, you have spent more money than donald trump on anything, really, when you look at paid tv ads. so, trump not spending money there, because, look at what happened during the primaries. one of the things that trump often does, and what he did again today is, he points to how he did back during the spring. back last winter, and essentially saying, hey, it works for me then, why do i need to change what i'm doing now, and back in the primaries, he spent very little money compared to his competitors on tv ads, so, in the mind of the trump, why would he change, even if his advisers want him to? he was real explicit about that in an interview that he taped today, here in wisconsin. i want you to listen.

>> if you start pivoting, you're not being honest with people. i've gotten here in a landslide and we'll see what happens, i mean, in the end, don't forget, when i lost wisconsin, it was over for trump. except for one problem. i then went on a very good run. but -- no, i am who i am. >> here's the thing, steve. trump has a point. people, after wisconsin, where, this is a state, remember, a state that he is looking to make a play in. this is his second visit here in maybe the last ten days, but it is a state where ted cruz beat him handily, particularly in this suburb of milwaukee. it is a place that a lot of folks said, man, the never trump movement could be picking up steam now, ted cruz could be picking up steam. what happened? indiana, where donald trump within 48 hours of that contest, locked up the republican nomination. so, when he says, listen, i went on a run, he's pointing to history and what happened during the primaries. problem is, and the question is, how does he replicate that in a

general election, going up against the clinton machine, frankly, that has had these ads out in battleground states for weeks? hallie jackson, i remember that wisconsin primary might and everybody thought the world had changed and they found it it hadn't. hallie jackson, thank you for that. let's bring back in our panel. heather, charlie, radikah, back with me now. it seems like, and it is interesting to hear that window into donald trump's thinking there, that he looks back at the primary season when he made all of these sort of gut level instinct decisions, people were telling him it was crazy and it worked. he wins the republican nomination. but it seems to me that there's a possibility here he was very good, his instincts were very good at connecting a big segmental of one party, but these same may not be serving him when it comes to general election voters. >> well, it seems clear that that's the case. he is still doing it at rallies, his perrer iffed form of commune case with voter, but we talked to him for our cover story last

week, i haven't spent any money yet, why should i bother? you almost see trump the businessman thinking here, not only do i want to win the election, i want to have the most money at the end of it and, of course, that doesn't really matter. that's not how the game is played, so, it's -- it's very perplexing. the other thing is that he may not be spending money on ads, but as you watch the clinton ads, you're seeing a lot of donald trump. she is running a lot of clips of him in a very negative light, so, the funny thing is that there aren't many ads out there that are really about hillary, per se. it's all still about donald trump, it's just that he's being portrayed very negatively in the ad environment. >> charlie, let me ask you that question about the ads. we put the numbers up there, the disparity, $104 million to $12 million, pro-clinton to pro-trump, zero from the trump campaign itself. what are republicans saying about that right now? i imagine the question's being asked, trump has some money, where it is being spent? do we know? >> yeah, sure, we know, right

now, it's in the bank. one reason mrs. clinton has a decent lead right now is having spent that $100 million. she and her allies, over the summer. i'll make you a prediction. not information, but just a prediction. starting labor day, the trump campaign and the republican national committee will be heavily on the air on tv, radio and digital. they have money. both of them have money. but they made a strategic decision to hold their fire for awhile. when -- i think the spending on advertising probably will be roughly equivalent between the two sides after labor day and that enhances mr. trump's ability to win. >> i always think back there's the story about 1996, and bob dole came out of the republican primaries with no money, he had to wait until the convention in the summer to get an infusion of cash. and the clinton campaign used those months when bob dole had no money to run all of these ads all around the country, build up this big lead. the story that's told of the '96

capab campaign is the clinton campaign won it in the early summer months when bob dole couldn't afford to be in the air waves. the dynamic you are describing of trump coming up in the fall, has he missed a critical window by not being on in the summer? >> well, it's a strategic decision. you'll have less money in the fall. maybe be outspent by mrs. clinton in the fall, if you did spend money in the summer. that's the decision they have made, but listen, i was there when that happened to bob dole, and i tell you something else. barack obama defined john mccain in a bad way in the summer of '08 and barack obama defined mitt romney in a bad way in the summer of 2012, because he had sue period resources. what the trump campaign has the rnc are doing is starting labor day, there will be no superior resources on the democratic side. this race is very loose. if you look at the likely voters in those polls, it's much closer, if you look at the measurements on the economy, who could do the best, and security

who could do the best, it's very close. mrs. clinton could not have a worse image. and so, as i said earlier, mr. trump just needs to become the acceptable alternative, and he can. >> heather, the clinton campaign at this moment with the polls looking the way they are, is guarding pretty clearly against complacency, sending all the right public messages out there about not taking it for granted, still working. when you look at the next 80-plus days, what is the biggest vulnerability you see for the clinton campaign? >> i think the biggest vulnerability is the fact that polls don't vote. this still has to be an election where people who support hillary clinton turn out to vote. where there is a sense of momentum and movement, where people are calling their friends, they're talking to neighbors. that is what helps democrats win. and we are not seeing that yet. i think there are some real arrows in her quiver that have not, unfortunately, really been landing. one of them is the issue of debt-free college, which could

be an absolute game-changer for african-american families, for working and middle class families, it reaches across the aisle, something that's very, very popular with republicans, that is say, i'll not just voting for the democratic nominee, i'm voting for my children, i'm voting for my ability to start a business. that's a huge issue, and frankly, because of the, you know, over $3 billion in free media that we're giving to donald trump because of the way he saturates the airwaves, and the way that the sort of scandal of the day has within been really hide what's actually going on with major policy differences between these candidates. >> all right, heather, charlie, radikah, stick around. the republican governor of north carolina is asking the nation's highest vote to keep its new voter i.d. law in place. i'm going to have reaction to the governor's move with the man who has fought against the state's voter i.d. laws. stay tuned. that's ahead.

♪ ♪ i'm hillary clinton, and i approve this message. michael hayden: if he governs consistent with some of the things he said as a candidate, i would be very frightened. gillian turner: he's been talking about the option of using a nuclear weapon against our western european allies. max boot: this is not somebody who should be handed the nuclear codes. charles krauthammer: you have to ask yourself, do i want a person of that temperament controlling the nuclear codes? and as of now, i'd have to say no. [bill o'reilly sighs]

lots more ahead on "mtp daily," but first, susan lee has the cnbc market watch. >> thanks, steve. stocks picking back from record highs. the dow sinking 84 points. the nasdaq slipping 34. housing starts jumped in the month of july, rising 2%, to the highest level since february. and economists, well, they had expected a decline. home depot posted revenue and earnings that beat estimates and raised its full-year profit guidance. consumer prices helped steady last month as fuel prices fell.

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i saw in the paper this morning that governor's gone up to the supreme court, said, no, still, we really want to do these restrictions, supreme court, will you let us restrict the ballot and close down access to people? i tell you, if you meet anybody on this trail who tells you, i don't think my vote matters, as you're trying to persuade them to vote for hillary clinton, they say, i don't think my vote matters, you say, it matters to the other side. >> tim kaine there campaigning in north carolina as that state's voting laws brush with the supreme court. in july, a federal court struck down key restrictions including voter idea, early voting dates and preregistration for 16 and 17-year-olds. republican governor pat mccolorry asked to appeal the decision and on monday night, the state formally asked the supreme court to hold the ruling, citing voter goconfusio.

citing the vulnerability has been persuasive to the supreme court. but the appeals court found the law unconstitutional, they also found that north carolina's voting laws, quote, target african-americans with almost surgical precision, all by t trying to cure problems that did not exist, instances of voter fraud are minuscule nationwide. but donald trump is using the idea of rigged elections as a rallying cry. >> but we don't want to see people voting five times, folks. we don't want to see it. and i've heard some stories about certain parts of the state. the only way we can lose, in my opinion, i really mean this, pennsylvania, is if cheating goes on. >> restrictions nationwide are getting tighter, according to the brennan center for justice, 17 states have new voting restrictions in place in time for the 2016 presidential election. back with me now to dissect this, ari melber.

so, ari, the state of north carolina says, let's put a hold on this decision, we're too close to the election. the security has some history of being sympathetic to that argument. is there a reason to think they will be here? >> that's right. they often look at this very practically and judges say, let's not create more confusion with our rulings or injustnctio that can stay something at the last minute. why the voter i.d. will probably stay kicked out is because north carolina itself had said earlier in this very case, this would be enough time. this would be an okay meline for them to deal with changes, whatever they may be. politically, it's so interesting, the sound you played from donald trump. in politics, like in sports, if someone tells you the only reason they could lose is cheating or the referees or something that has to do with anything other than their per formans, that's usually a bad sign, because this is obviously an open election, there are a million reasons in side could win or lose. so, that's a telling piece from

him, but it goes to, obviously, both sides making a lot of noise about what should be fair elections. >> but the longer term question here in terms of the law here in north carolina is, if the supreme court goes along with the state of north carolina, that it stays on the books for this election in 2016, but either way, after this election, this law is gone going forward? >> well, either way, you ultimately have a final decision of the supreme court of how much it wants to get involved. so, it can leave this kicked out or it can take the case, and then the legal middle step that we care a lot about for november, if the supreme court were to take the case, budoes i leave it the way it is or make a change. they usually do what is the least on strusive thing. there's a lot of debates over voting. it is not true when liberals say that any time any republican makes a change, it's automatically bad or racist or counter turnout, and it's not true when republicans have tried to say that voter fraud is a giant problem. what donald trump alluded to is not supported by the evidence or

statistics. what is important here, this isn't just a jump ball of false equivalency. you have federal judges that looked at this particular rule in north carolina and said it was intended to discriminate based on race. that is unconstitutional and unless the supreme court intervenes that is the law of the land, so, that's an important step in a state like many states in the south that has had a lot of debates about whether racist voting rules are a thing of the past or a thing of the present. these judges saying, a thing of the present. that's bad for republicans. >> all right, ari, thank you for that. reverend dr. william barber has been one of the leaders in north carolina fighting against the restrictions. reverend, thank you for joining us. well, so, let me ask you about the argument that's being put forward here by governor mccolorry, by the state of north carolina, they say, look. it is too late right now, it is too close to the 2016 election, to the november election, to change what we had planned, what we had been preparing for what do you say to that? >> well, first of all, the

governor is the one who is confus confused. he has a bad case of trump-itis. and that is doing something wrong and then blaming other people for the consequences. they waited more than 17 days to file this, it is not too late. it will not create confusion. what has been confusing to historians and to us in the civil rights community is why would a governor and a legislature in the 21st century engage in racism, unless they believe they cannot make their case in the public square. and they weren't just caught one time. they were caught twice. last week, a few weeks ago, the federal court said that it was intentional racism in the voter suppression case, and then, the unanimous panel came back again and said intentional racism in the way in which they gerrymandered the redistricting. so, this is price, the courts are not confused. only mr. mccolorry is confused. and we always have time to do things that are right.

>> let me ask you a bottom line political question, because a lot of eyes nationally are on north carolina. we've seen polls there showing a close race, some even putting hillary clinton ahead. there's a big senate race. there's a big governor's race. they are expected to be close. the difference between having these restrictions on the books and in force this november and not, what does that mean in terms of numbers of participation, do you think? >> yeah, it is -- it is incredibly important. these laws that were put into place were to deal with the vestiges of the restrictions that had been in place. and we had moved in north carolina to being the fourth-highest per capita increase, 70% of african-americans had begun to vote. remember, the way they passed this law, they actually looked at what african-americans were using, and as the court said, surgically decided to remove them. now, he's talking about, he wants the supreme court to join him in wrong, uphold the photo i.d., take away 17 days of early

voting, and even restrict the registration of 16 and 17-year-olds. we know that this can have tremendous impact. if we hear trump saying things like certain communities will cheat -- that's just coded race language. what we call southern strategy language that's being used. this is aboutknows it, the legi know it. they are trying to rig the election. they got caught red-handed, and now, rather than repent and say he was wrong, he's acting more like, you know, governor maddox out of georgia back in the '60s who called the voting rights act wrong, unconstitutional and immoral. what is immoral is any governor that would try to suppress the right to vote and do it in a racist way. >> there are a number of states that have new laws in the books heading into this election. there's that supreme court ruling in 2013 that effectively did away with portions of the voting rights act. are you looking at what's playing out right now in the

courts of north carolina to be a turning point in that broader fight? >> i think it is a major turning point, when you look at what our states are doing, and other ones. 2013 was shelby, the shelby decision. that was the worst roll-back of the voting rights act since 1965. after shelby, you had a great number of these voter suppression tactics. in north carolina, the worst that we had not seen since the days of jim crow. those persons that want to suppress the vote understand that if you break up the -- if you can break the silent south, you can fundamentally shift american politics. i often say that in the south, the former confederate states, 11 states, that's 22 senate seats and u.s. senate, 31% of the u.s. house and nearly 160 electoral votes. so, if you can control the south, you can, in some ways, control the nation. they also know that if you register 30% of african-american voters in the south, and they

vote, and they join with progressive whites and latino, you have a fundamentally new demographic. this is nothing more than an attempt to suppress the vote and try to hold onto the solid south, but the courts are beginning to come around, history is shifting, and the south is changing. and as it does, the nation will change. >> all right, reverend william barber, thank you for joining us. >> thank you so much. >> and we should note, we did reach out to the governor's office, asking him or a representative to join us today, no one was available. of course, we will keep that invitation open as this story moves forward. the lid is next, stay with us. from long island to buffalo, from rochester to the hudson valley, from albany to utica, creative business incentives, infrastructure investment, university partnerships, and the lowest taxes in decades are creating a stronger economy and the right environment in new york state for business to thrive.

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shh... at jet.com, we always find innovative ways to save. get 15 percent off your first order. donald trump may be turning to a controversial republican who is under heavy fire to help with his debate prep, heading into his showdowns with hillary clinton. "the new york times" reports that former fox news chairman roger ailes is advising trump. he resigned his post ahmed sexual harassment allegations by past staffers, and received a reported $40 million upon his departure. the trump campaign is denying the report, telling nbc news that ailes and trump are long-time friends, but the former fox chair has no formal or informal role with the campaign. late last month, following ais' resignation, ump had this to say on "meet the press." >> roger ailes. is he thhelping you?

>> i don't want to comment. he's been a friend of mine for a long time and can i tell you that some of the women that are complaining -- i know how much he's helped them and even recently, and when they write books that are fairly recently released, and they say wonderful things about him and now all of a sudden, they're saying these horrible things about him -- it's very sad. because he's a very good person. i've always found him to be just a very, very good person and, by the way, a very, very talented person. look what he's done. so, i feel very badly, but a lot of people are thinking he's going to run my campaign. my campaign is doing pretty well. we came up with a plan to help reduce my risk of progression. and everywhere i look... i'm reminded to stick to my plan. including preservision areds 2. my doctor said preservision areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula that the national eye institute recommends to help reduce the risk of progression of moderate to advanced amd... after 15 years of clinical studies. preservision areds 2.

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plenty to talk about tonight. let's get right to "the lid." the panel is here. let's start on this question of the debates. we just had that news about at least it's being reported that roger ailes might be advising donald trump in preparations for these debates. the trump campaign is denying that it's a thing but it does point to how important the

debates now loom for donald trump, with the polls that we have been seeing. the campaign looking for a big moment to get back into it. the debates are your best chance left. when you look at that onstage matchup that's coming probably about a month from now, donald trump versus hillary clinton, it will probably be a desperate donald trump against a hillary clinton who let's face it, has been pretty good in that format. she certainly was against bernie sanders, against barack obama. how do you size up that matchup? >> well, i think he is going to feel desperate. i think if roger ailes really is actually consulting with him, the gender gap is going to be even wider than people are predicting. and i think in some ways, ailes really created the swamp from which donald trump emerged. he really is the one who created the audience for trump the entertainer to become trump the politician. so i would be very surprised if ailes weren't in fact playing quite a big role now that he's been pushed out of fox news.

>> charlie, if you were advising donald trump on how to debate hillary clinton, you saw him up there onstage with all the republicans in the primary season. it would be a different dynamic one-on-one against somebody, he would be facing a female opponent one-on-one. what would your advice be to donald trump on how to handle that debate? >> well, first of all, without commenting on the allegations against roger ailes, he's a good man. he was a terrific entrepreneur and pioneer in the television business. he's not involved in the trump campaign, period. they told you that today. everybody ought to accept it. what donald has to do is talk issues. he has to get prepped on the stage to talk about the big issues, the economy, national security, obamacare, and make the case that it's the status quo mrs. clinton against change and he is change. he has to be a little bit -- any time a man debates a woman you have to be a little bit careful not to hit too hard but donald's

a great debater. he's smart enough to do that. >> the republican primary debates it was donald trump flinging insults and he was taking incoming by the end and flinging it back. debating hillary clinton one-on-one will be very different than the republican primary debates. >> i think so. i think the challenge for the clinton campaign is there are so many possible things that could come out of donald trump's mouth and we saw a lot of them in the prime arary campaign. there could be more. it's incredibly unpredictable. the times he has delivered sort of more serious, substantive addresses on say foreign policy or the economy, he has resorted to a teleprompter. obviously the debate will call on him to speak extemporaneously. hillary clinton as you say is very good at that. you do wonder whether he will get flustered and fall back on some of the bluster that actually propelled him to victory in the primaries. >> that is the other thing. hillary clinton obviously

prepares a lot, we have seen. you think she will have to come with a different sort of different one-liners, different material than she's used before? >> i do think that she will have to get into it a little bit with him. she will need to, and this is maybe a sad state of affairs, but she will need to be entertaining because she's sort of in the circus ring with him. that said, she also can't be pulled completely off of her game because she has a lot she actually hasn't said yet to a general election audience about her proposals and what she wants to do with the country, whether it's debt-free college or expanding social security, actually address money in politics which trump talks a lot about but his answer like it is to so many things is just trump himself. he doesn't have any ideas on reform. so this is her opportunity to actually make that case to a general election audience. i hope she doesn't get too far off her game. >> thank you to heather, charlie, radika. before we go to break, we want to note the passing of someone very familiar to those of us who love watching politics on tv.

we learned just about an hour ago that john mcloughlin, founder and host of the mcloughlin group has passed away. his lively discussions pitting liberals and conservatives facing off against each other went on the air 34 years ago, back in 1982. until this week, he had hosted every episode of the show. the shows oven devolve into shoutfests and for better or worse, changed the way politics was discussed on television. before mclaughlin most political shows were tightly scripted, highly predictable. they were boring. the mclaughlin group was so influential it eventually led to the network sunday shows adding their own panel of journalists to their broadcasts. it was an absolute institution. i grew up watching it. john mclaughlin was 89. ♪ mapping the oceans. where we explore. protecting biodiversity. everywhere we work. defeating malaria. improving energy efficiency. developing more clean burning

natural gas. my job? my job at exxonmobil? turning algae into biofuels. reducing energy poverty in the developing world. making cars go further with less. fueling the global economy. and you thought we just made the gas. ♪ energy lives here. introduces new, easy-to-swallow tablets. so now, there are more ways, for more people... to experience... complete protection from frequent heartburn. nexium 24hr. the easy-to-swallow tablet is here. i'm hillary clinton, and i approve this message. michael hayden: if he governs consistent with some of the things he said as a candidate, i would be very frightened. gillian turner: he's been talking about the option of using a nuclear weapon against our western european allies. max boot: this is not somebody who should be handed the nuclear codes. charles krauthammer: you have to ask yourself, do i want a person of that temperament controlling the nuclear codes? and as of now, i'd have to say no. [bill o'reilly sighs]

and as of now, i'd have to say no. one number 21 in the books. a dog, talked. we're decedent from the mighty wolf. a voice was heard. if you build it, he will come.

a girl discovered magic. a revolution began. welcome, to the wonders that happen, everyday. welcome, to it all. comcast. that's all for tonight. we'll be back tomorrow with more "mtp daily." have a good night. i'm donny deutch. >> i'm mark halperin. "with all due respect" to all that has come after john mclaughlin did it first and did it best. the pioneering political talk show host john mclaughlin has passed away. we will talk about him later in the program. first, another day and more