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>> when are we going to go after media? now you're seeing what happens when you go after the media. it doesn't work. it never works going after them, if you are the candidate. it makes you look small. besides, despite what many people think, the media isn't on the ballot. trump has decided he actually was in fairfield, connecticut. number one, what is trump doing in connecticut? there are maybe ten republicans there. and only five of them will admit it. fairfield. i go to fairfield every summer to play in the member gust golf tournament at the country club of fairfield. i'm telling you, folks, it's a foreign country. what is trump doing there? i have no idea. but when he was there, he told

them in the rallies and running against crooked hillary, we're not running against crooked hillary, we're running against the crooked media. >> did he just say connecticut was a foreign wo? as walter said, when you lost -- >> rush limbaugh is good and funny and smart and always telling you something that makes you sit up. >> he entertains. but, no, it is interesting, walter, when you have rush limbaugh saying that to the republican nominee. don't fight against the media. >> as he said, the media is not on the ballot. plus, the media is like fighting against some big old blob. there is all sorts of media. just shows you the loser. >> yeah. and, also, i mean i've heard it said before, but, you know, i always believe that when

somebody is complaining about the media all the time or complaining about the polls all the time, that candidate's losing and going to lose. >> i think there's one exception to that which you heard trump say last night. you lumped the media in with washington and economic elites and say, these are the big forces in our country that are stopping change. >> if you're talking about big money on wall street and big lobbyists on k street and big media types in manhattan, that all works. but when you're specifically going after "new york times" and you're specifically going after reporters and you're banning "washington post." that is just a losing game. >> i think it still goes back to he is still in the mode of where he was in the primaries. he had a very set primary speech. belittle his opponents. that is largely how his speech broke down. the genius then of trashing the media was then that the people

who came to his rallies didn't believe what they wrote about him. he hasn't made that progression. he still thinks as he does with his style it worked for me until now. >> kind of a new problem now. he's consistently behind now. >> yeah. >> and i think that adds something to the trumpiness of trump. and, so, maybe this isn't the last campaign shakeup. maybe he, you know, he shakes it up now and if he doesn't start rising in the polls, who knows if he doesn't shake it up, again. >> walter, it's remarkable he has been running this thing like a primary when we have all been saying since may you have to make it pivot. the trump campaign this morning telling everybody that donald, they can bring on everybody. it is all up to donald that donald finally understands. this morning he understands. he's got to stop running a primary campaign. >> why is he bringing in people who are basically more

activists. want him to be more unleashed as opposed to manifort for all of his flaws and connections to russian interests and stuff who was at least trying to calm him down. the problem is not just pivoting from primary to general election, but trump makes it all about him. and a good campaign makes it all about the voter, all about you. what's going to be good for you. how we're going to do things that is going to connect with you. for trump, when he's tweeting about "new york times" reporters he's not doing it because he cares about the voters. he's doing it for himself. >> all about him. >> let's see if he stays on facebook. let's bring in bob costa from "washington post." you were up all night reporting on this. break it down for us. what happened for the trump campaign and what precipitated it and take us behind the scenes. >> trump agitated to constrain trump and get trump to be more

disciplined. but it came to a head on saturday night, according to my sources. trump was in the hamptons. he was at a fund-raiser at woody johnson's house, the owner of the jets. and the mercer family was there. they're a big donor to the website and trump was there and he was talking with rebecca mercer, one of the mega donors with woody johnson and others and trump was furious about all these reports of him being managed and trying to be tamed. long story short based on several conversations over the past six to eight hours, on sunday trump was in new jersey and he calls up kellanne conway and he said you guys have to help me give my campaign a jolt. i want you to run it. we're not going to shelve m manfort but i want you to run this and letting me be me. >> it sounds, though, like donald trump is actually upset with manifort and the rest of the campaign for doing exactly

what his supporters want bannon and conway to do, which is to enforce more discipline on donald trump. >> not so much. i think this is a competing strategy that trump has bought in to. when i hear about trump and manifort is that their relationship remains solid. you had manifort issue a statement this morning saying he is staying on the campaign. someone close to sarah palin in 2008 does a documentary and part of this whole hard right populism and goes to work at brightbart. he has made the case that the only way you win to trump is that you have to be change and you have to be a pure outsider. trump has bought into that and moved away into the manifort strategy. >> so, how do we change? see the dynamics in this race change where you have donald trump down by eight, nine in

virginia. down by nine in florida. you look at the blue states that are now hillary clinton by ten. she's over 272. how does a dynamic change other than the debate between now and this fall? >> you know wilson said a week is a long time in politics. each week something is going to happen. one dynamic that can change is a massive data dump of more hacked and stolen e-mails and information from democratic party. and that gets into the weirdest, weirdest dynamic of this campaign. which is russia's involvement. i mean, you know, to me, we talked about it some, but this is a weirdly underplayed story. this is a massive attempt by, you know, russian hackers working under the direction of the government apparently. that's what everybody has says. that hack under to the democratic party apparatus and leaking things to help trump.

trump has been pretty much doing everything the russians would want in terms of foreign policy. we wouldn't necessarily protect the baltics. manifort according to "new york times" entered the ukraine investigations has been taking cash money from the pro-russian factions there. and you probably, we haven't seen trump's finances, but i'm sure, you know, there is a reason we haven't seen them and it may be that there have been loans given to them by the russians. so, this is a weird thing in which the russians are now going to try to influence the election by dumping a whole lot more hack data. who knows how things like that play out. >> the problem with bannon, also, is when you're talking about bannon and the attempt to unite the republican party. in steve bannon you have someone who was hypercritical. >> right. so, do you thichk there is a lot

of angst in the clinton campaign this morning at the notion that the trump campaign is going to be pitched at the average brightbart reader? i mean, if that's the way they're going to go, if they're going to go hard right populous, then, you know, hillary clinton should take another week off. >> spend more time being photographed with barack obama. >> it would take a lot these days to be worried about anything the trump campaign is doing, i would agree. the one message they do worry about and they rightly should is a message of change against the status quo. >> but that's -- >> i think with all due respect to what bob said, that's the message paul manifort wants and the message kellyanne conway wants and trump wants. >> how does that square them with what you have been reporting. the new bannon look is basically more of the same. brutal fights with clinton and

heavy emphasis on populousism. that sounds like trump redux. >> and having bannon and conway a lot of it is about personal chemistry. he respects manifort but clicks more when it just comes to the personal report. more focused on five battleground states and trump will maybe change his schedule and his pace and may try to have one huge rally every day. 15,000, 20,000 people to make him seem like the head of a movement rather than anyone who is delivering scripted speeches. that is the whole point of the next 80 days in bannon's view is to have this which is detached from the american voters. >> trump last night in milwaukee talking about who he is going to be running against.

>> i'm fighting all of us across the country are fighting for peaceful regime change in our own country. the media donor political complex that has bled this country dry has to be replaced with a new government of, by and for the people. >> wow. peaceful regime change. who says that? >> you know, we've had a regime for like 240 years that most people like. i don't want it to change. >> but he -- >> i actually agree with mark. if you can stick to a message of, you know, there's an establishment there. they've not played fair by you. we've got to change it. that's a pretty good message. >> if trump does step up and start running against washington republicans and democrats, which bill clinton ran against both parties. how do you think the republican establishment would take that? would they be silent or lash

back at him? >> they have been silent thus far and pretty much what he has been saying thus far. >> this is the difference with the campaign. manifort has emphasized, why pick fights with our fellow republicans. you have to go after every member of the establishment party. >> what you're asking. >> if trump says part of our problem is the -- even if he doesn't name them. and then reporters go up to mitch mcconnell and paul ryan and how do you feel that your nominee is saying you're part of the problem. do you think they'll turn the other cheek? >> you were talking about it earlier in the segment, but, you know, that's going to then prompt even more come to reckoning for the republican party. both after this in particular. are you going to have two republican party? >> bob costa. >> i think mark's question is exactly the right one. how does trump balance keeping this unity with the republican party with running against both

parties at the same time. my sources are telling me maybe one thought maybe having manifort and rick gates being in washington trying to reassure washington republicans for the next 80 days while trump tries to run this broader, anti, all-party movement. >> katty, let me ask you about, i don't want to side track it. but this is, obviously a huge story leading "washington post" and it is about the russians now expanding their footprint. they were in syria and the middle east and now they're expanding it into iran. is there a growing concern in europe? talk about the growing concern in europe about russia's expanding footprint, not only the middle east, but, obviously, eastern europe. >> i spoke to the form ernato secretary who raised russia's flexing its muscles in europe the main reason that he thinks

donald trump will not be good for western security. are you saying donald trump as the next president of the united states would threaten western american security and safety and he said yes because of russia. what russia is doing with the basis in iran, they're preparing to show they are going all in on syria and that gives the united states little leverage. donald trump said we should work with the russians about isis. but then the russians use iranian air bases and donald trump also says is the biggest state sponsor of terrorism. it doesn't add up as a strategy. >> add up as a strategy for russia. >> you're right. >> you look at manifort and look at all of donald trump's statements about russia. all his positive statements about vladimir putin and him praising putin for going into the middle east since 1973 when they go into syria. now they're expanding into iran, militarily.

this is ominous and it seems, would this not have an impact on the election if trump does not begin to distance himself from putin? >> absolutely. american foreign policy. i'm going to embarrass mark ever since his ther, mark halperin was working in the early 1970s was reduce russian influence in the middle east. especially with syria, which was a russian client state. now, we are in a tricky, difficult situation where we need some working with russia in the fight against isis. but we need to reduce russia's influence in europe and in the middle east. and when you see the words coming out of trump, which is that russia, i'm going to work with them and, you know, that finef they take crimia. >> and he's glad to have them in syria. >> glad tahao have them in syri. and this relationship. i think joe biden actually said

it right. it is a guy who would have liked stalin. it is weird this relationship he has with russian strongmen who are basically adversaries of our interest and have been hacking in and releasing, not just democratic data, but releasing some of the, you know, defense codes. >> write some of the codes. >> you just gave some of the best evidence that donald trump is really a democrat. joe biden did. there is a lot of liberals in the '40s who really loved joe stalin. >>flipped the other way -- >> this is totally true. democrats -- >> war going on in the 1940s. >> no. after the war, you're absolutely right. >> oh, come on. stop it. >> talk about the democratic party. >> shocked by something. so, fdr -- >> saw you tweeting about it.

>> really surprised, though, the welcoming center was a henry wallace welcoming center. given his connections with the soviets, i was surprised in 2016. i mean, that's all out. >> let's give franklin roosevelt credit. he replaces wallace with truman. wallace bolts the party. like a lot of things you're having now. when thurman and wallace both the democratic party, the pty has to define themlves. i think the republicans will go through that. let me do a thought experiment with you. you love thought experiments. people get, you know, people who are trump supporters sometimes get riled up when you talk about how could he be supporting putin. imagine if a democrat, imagine if hillary clinton, you know, were playing footsie with the russians or if the chinese have hacked the republican national committee and had, you know, released everything. you'd say, well, we have to stop these foreign influences from destroying our government.

so, this is not a partisan issue. we do not want russia, you know, we have a critical infrastructure in this country like our electricity grid. we have new doctrines they take down the electricity grid, it is an act of war. to me, our electoral process is a critical infrastructure. they are trying to take it down. if the chinese were trying to take it down with trump and trying to destroy his campaign, that would be bad. if democrats were flirting and asking foreign powers to hack the other party, that would be bad p. so, let's not make this a partisan issue. let's say this is a bad problem when the russians are doing this, we don't have a doctrine to stop them. >> it's frightening. very frightening. all right, we'll continue that conversation. we'll have some new reporting just out from the ap this morning from paul manifort's possible relationship with

corruption in ukraine. coming up on "morning joe." >> so, do you come to milwaukee often? >> well, i'm a regular visitor here, but milwaukee has certainly had its share of visitors. the french missionaries and explorers were coming here to trade with the native americans. >> isn't milwaukee -- >> actually, it is. it is pronounced milwaukee, which is for the good land. >> i was not aware of that. >> we're going to go to the good land for a live report from hallie jackson. that is quite a stretch there. but thank you. plus, could independent candidate evan mcmullen's bid for president take off? you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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>> taken for granted. they just assume they'll get

your support and done nothing in return for it. they've taken advantage of the african-american citizen. it's time to give the democrats some competition for these votes and it's time to rebuild the inner cities of america and to reject the failed leadership of a rigged, political system. that's what it is. it is a rigged system. that was donald trump campaigning last night in milwaukee talking about policing in the community. talking about inner city politics and our next guest would certainly appreciate it. bill kristol. a renegade. we'll get tahim in a minuo him . first we'll go to milwaukee. hallie, what's happening in milwaukee. >> milwaukee, the scene of donald trump's rly last night. this was really interesting for a couple of reasons. firsof all, this was the first

event billed as a rally where we saw the rally crowds. the energetic crowds where trump read off of a teleprompter and he wanted to stay on message for this law and order speech where he made this direct appeal to african-american voters. this is a demographic where trump really struggled. our latest "wall street journal" polling shows he has 1% support versus hillary clinton's 1%. >> so, hallie, you're saying a lot of growth potential there then for trump at 1%. >> here's what i like about you, joe, you're a glass half full kind of guy. from the room, the thing is from the room he was delivering this message from an audience that was entirely white. not a lot of diversity in the crowd in the suburbs outside of milwaukee. not to ahis message didn't get out via media. when you talk about the message, the campaign wants to talk about how donald trump came out and delivered this speech.

i will say this, he engaged in what is the biggest local issue in milwaukee right now, which, of course, the unrest erupted after the police shootings over the weekend. that's not something we have see from donald trump when there has been headlines or local news. he has not gotten into what folks were talking about. the other part of it, though, he comes out this morning with news of this campaign shakeup. now taking on new roles at the top of trump's team. it is a little bit of the campaign stepping on its own message. if it wanted to pull the discussion about his messaging last night into today, releasing news of a major campaign shakeup is not the way to do it. i asked the senior adviser about it. only so many days left in this campaign and wanted to get news and word of this new team out there. what is in the news cycle today will be trump's speech. we'll see how that shakes out as we do more reporting on that

today. >> hallie jackson, thank you so much. >> donald trump has been invited to speak to afric-amerin audiences any number of times. the naacp, urban league, you know, and has declined every one. he hasn't done it. so, it's a strange way to appeal for african-american votes if he says he wants, why not go after them. >> i think that would be a very good thing for him to do. and since he never watches the show, donald, you should do that. with us now, editor of "weekly standard" a man called a renegade by brightbart website, bill kristol. how do i get people to say that of me? >> well, and then you have to criticize donald trump. so, if you would start -- i think you started and credit on that. >> i think so. >> we could have a private

discussion on the first. >> that would be great. >> so, what do you think of the campaign shakeup, first of all? >> i don't think it matters because donald trump favorability rating too high. hillary clinton you would say normally too high and that's what it is about. >> so, we've been speculating around this table, though. we've been speculating around the table what has been going on over the past two or three months. during the republican primary, he did things while seemingly crazy made sense politically. played to a tough, hard-core 40% base and he won. what's your operating theory? those of us who have known him for a long time, you guys want to win. donny deutsch doesn't want to win. he doesn't want to lose, but he doesn't want to govern. he didn't respect to win the republican primary. what is your operating theory on what we have been seeing over the past couple weeks? >> i don't try to get into his mind as much as you guys do.

but i think he is who he is. i'm fascinated. we have a lot of viewers who would like to hear your opinion. >> he is who he is and believes who he is. he thinks he is showing the pundits are wrong once and he'll show them, again. i'm not 100% confident he's not. hillary clinton has a good lead and should hold it by historical precedence. >> do you think trump can still win? >> yeah. i think it's an unusual and fluid year and more stuff could come out about hillary clinton. the only reason he could win is this. it's a changed election. i was in the first bush white house in '92. bill clinton a very flawed challenger, people will not forget that. if people want change, they will make excuses for the challenger. hillary clinton is the candidate with the status quo. that's just the fact. i think in that respect -- this is where it's so unbelievable that trump is losing. in a normal year, the third term

for one party with hillary clinton's unfavorables and the normal break on the issues, i would say. the normal break on the issues where i think the country is at least majority of the issues on the right side. the republicans should be up a couple points in my view. he's losing by ten. that's all about trump. >> i have a question which is, give us your take on this brightbart thing? why would you bring brightbart into one campaign and you have been the target. you actually knew andrew when he was alive and now it's changed. >> he was a troublemaker, but he was a good hearted person. i hate the fact that it's called. if they call it right wing intainte intellige intelligent -- >> think of how hard to make a logo. >> that wasn't andrew. unfortunate that we're sitting around talking about brightbart and disturbance to andrew's

memory. run his website and successful from a business point of view but someone should go look at all the things they have said. that's not what brightbart said about me three months ago. i'm not a big, you know, oh, it's terrible anti-semitism and the charges, i didn't support donald trump. >> bob costa. >> the history of breitbart is telling if you want to understand this whole trump evolution. started out as an aggregation website when andrew breitbart passes away, larry and steve come in and take over the company. this is where trumpism before trump and constantly publishing op-eds on it. this anti-illegal immigration strain of the right wing

republican populism starts at breitbart in 2010, 2011 as part of the tea party movement. >> trumpism started at breitbart, you think? >> the beating heart of trump started at breitbart. >> but after andrew's death. one thing as a policy matter and you should have tougher policies. one thing to say less legal immigration. that is a serious public policy issue. defining people by ethnicity, race and so forth. that is trump. trump in that respect is very different from the tea party types. you can criticize them all you want. most were not trumpites. trump is a new low. >> because of racism and anti-semitism. >> and it really is third world authoritarian. >> we have to go and i just have to ask you about, sorry, i have

to ask you. he's on the ballot in utah. could make a big difference there. what other states? >> he'll get on in 12 states. out of virginia. i admire him for doing that. >> think he could make a difference? >> i think he could. that is a long shot. he is an impressive guy and people i just talked to a breath of fresh air to have an intelligent 40-year-old serve this country as opposed to trump and clinton. >> somebody you could vote for. >> that is always a good thing. >> bill kristol, thank you so much. bob costa, thank you so much. you can go to sleep now, man. >> good story, bob. >> great work, as always. >> keep following it washingtonpost.com all day. we'll be on there. >> thank you. >> don't go to bed. keep updating. >> wasn't that a "wall street journal" story? >> you are just -- >> that was terrible. >> stop that. >> i know. still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> there's been some controversy

about something in the republican party platform that essentially changed the republican party's views when it comes to ukraine. how much influence did you have on changing that language, sir? >> i had none. in fact, i didn't hear of it until after our convention was over. >> seen out cene out of the upc avengers movie. a new report from paul manifort helped leaders in ukraine funnel millions of dollars to washington lobbying firms. >> this is a huge story. >> this is a huge story. so many of these stories out there, too. by the way, had this been the democrats doing this, it would have been an explosion. >> an explosion now. i have a feeling that demoting him had something to do with the last story that came out. and in anticipation of much more. we'll talk to an ap reporter who broke that story, coming up next.

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it's 7:38 on the east coast as donald trump prepares to get his first intelligence briefing today, a new report from the associated press this morning alleges that in 2012, trump campaign chairman paul manifort secretly helped secretly root over $2 million to help the then pro-russian government of ukraine influence u.s. policy. joining us live from washington is associated press reporter

jeff, one of the reporters who broke the story. jeff, explain to us exactly what happened and was the potential violation in terms of u.s. law here? >> sure. we know that manifort and his team have been working in ukraine doing political consulting yanukovych. manifort and his team si simultaneously were also guiding lobbying efforts in the united states. so, trying to get decisions changed by the u.s. government on behalf of pro-russian ukrainian political parties. >> wow. would that violate american law? would that violate ukrainian law? >> yes. so under the u.s. foreign agent registration act representing foreign entities are required to register and disclose all their activities in a very detailed fashion. failing to do so is punishable by five years in jail.

it's considered to be a pretty serious law. this was created in 1938, basically, to try to detect and keep track of propaganda by the germans during world war ii. >> exactly why that law was passed. i mean, this is the exact thing we're trying to stop. and do you even have it with general flynn getting briefing and stuff and working for russia today and sitting with putin. i mean, this is to me, breathtaking. it does seem like we have to have a national debate over allowing this to happen. >> so, that's right. the trump campaign has already been scrutinized for its connections with russia and for the question of whether sort of it might be susceptible to russian influence. obviously, if you have two of the top officials from the campaign and now they're part of a larger group of top official os since that team is apparently expanding. two of the top officials from the campaign having supposedly, according to some of the

lobbyists who were working on this stuff been basically guiding lobbying efforts, secret lobbying efforts in the u.s. that would be a big deal in terms of reliability and trustworthness. >> just real quickly. trump is saying the same things. baltic states as they get attacked by russia. trump is undermining nato. trump is saying things like the russians aren't really in ukraine or if they are, they're fine. they should be. that russia should be back in syria in the middle east. not just his advisors doing it, you're having a very weird pro-russian policy that goes against 50 years of the united states policy. >> right. i think that's sort of led to some speculation that there might be some influence on trump either through members of his staff or directly. some of that is overblown. i think the discussion of some sort of trump as a candidate

strikes me as a bit crazy. but that said, having advisors who have a history of sort of working in this sort of murky world of ukrainian politics and then potentially bringing some of that over across the atlantic into washington without making their intentions and their activities known. that would be concerning. >> jeff, just to tie the strands together here. you are saying that you all established that paul manif oh rt involved in secret lobbies and did not register and, therefore, may have committed a crime. >> whether crimes have been committed, that is not something the ap will judge. here's how that worked. a supposedly independent nonprofit was lobbying on behalf of issues that were sort of very much align would the ukrainian government between 2012 and the overthrow of victor yanukovych during 2014. according to some of the lobbyists that were fully aware

of how this process was working, paul manifort and rick gates, his deputy of the trump campaign. their firm was directing the activities of the nonprofit, according to these people. now, of course, the parties involved deny this. but multiple sources, some of the records saying gates was involved. >> were they registered to do this? >> the nonprofit was. but, of course, the nonprofit was just anonymous or a low-profile european nonprofit oout of brussels. nobody had any idea this might actually be unofficially, we will say, the ukrainian government or the ukrainian political party attempting to sway washington. >> jeff, thank you so much. unbelievable. >> it is unbelievable. that would suggest that there was direct meddling by a pro-russian ukrainian government in american affairs, right? >> for a candidate that has asked russia to hack his political opponent and dump that

information about the opponents. >> but foreign governments do this all the time. >> right, but they have to be declared. it's business transaction has to be declared. >> by the way, let me challenge you on that. where has it risen anywhere near this level? >> do you know how many lobbyists the saudis have in washington? >> have they hack under to the system? >> they don't do that, no. but they do try to influence u.s. policy. right? >> but it has to be done in a way that -- still ahead on "morning joe." if you can't trust congress, who can you trust? >> a lot of people. >> fbi information about the investigation into hillary clinton remained leaked free once it gets into the hands. we'll talk with the ranking member of the house intelligence committee adam shift, next. ♪ ♪

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hillary clinton meetings with the fbi being given to a congressional committee. material contain classified and other sensitive contents. with its delivery comes a warning, "the expectation it won't be disseminated or disclosed without fbi concurrence." that information will remain secure. among them the ranking member of the house intelligence committee congressman adam shift of california. congressman, one person who said, why don't you go ahead and throw on the sidewalks outside the congressional buildings and just it will save time because you're going to end thousand streets anyway. >> i think, unfortunately, that's exactly right and the history of documents like this has been leaked almost immediately upon receipt by congress and i would be surprised if that was different here and the broader concern, frankly, is what this will mean to the department of justice investigations and people's willingness to cooperate in the

future. i also have to say it opens a pando pandora's box from congress now. the financial services committee demand the closed investigative files not indicted after the meltdown. don't we have eketually as much right to those files as we do to these in the public interest. you could list easily a dozen or dozens of closed cases that congress would have a legitimate interest if this is now the precedent. and that concerns me greatly because i think it will deter people from cooperating in the department of justice. they know they'll become public and part of political fodder. >> carson, i agree with you. one of the most horrible precedence i have seen in a long time. i don't understand why the fbi agreed to send the material over. not just terms in deterring, but people's privacy and people's rights to not have accusations. why did the fbi do this? >> i think the director made the

decision and i support him in this decision to speak publicly about the closure of the case when he did so a couple months ago. and then he testified, in fact, in great detail about that. it wasn't without reservation that i supported that, but i felt that the parties justified these circumstances. but to go further than that and release investigative files and witness interviews and other documents, that seems to me unjustified and unwise. and i think it's a decision and a precedent the justice department will rue that it has set. because i don't see a eliminating principle here. so whenever you have a majority in congress now and someone from the other party under investigation and that investigation is ultimately declined, they're going to demand the same kind of access we saw here. >> congressman, it's katty kay here. can i switch to trump and the intelligence briefing he's going to be getting later today. as somebody who sitz on the house intelligence committee, do you have any insight for us on

the expanse of that briefing, the kind of thing, do you think, that mr. trump might be party to at the end of it? >> well, i'll tell u, i think what he's going to get is a very top-line briefing that will set to context for what the national security challenges are that face the country. but won't go into anything that might reveal a source of information, a method of how we got the information. nothing of that level of specificity. both, because there will be a real sensitivity about the risk of disclosure of those sources and methods, but also because it's really not necessary to give the kind of briefing that would, frankly, be of any value to that particular candidate. so i think it will be very top line. i think it will, frankly, go not much beyond what you would find on msnbc, cnn, or fox any day of the week, when you tune in to hear a national security discussion. in fact, many of the classified briefings for the full house of representatives have the same character, where we will leave the briefing and get more detail

watching your show than we did during the classified briefing. i think this will be even more top-level than what the 435 members of the house again. >> yeah, you know, we've done these national security briefings since the days of harry truman. that's when it was instituted, a candidate, once they get the nomination, got these briefings. but when you're bringing in people like, you know, michael flynn and others who have been very close to russian television, dinners with putin, do you think that there has to be some change? not just saying, okay, it will only be top line this time, but we'll have to institutionalize some change? >> well, i don't know that we can institutionalize this. i do think we have to leave the president and the director of national intelligence some discretion. and i think they'll exercise it wisely and prudently. but you're right. it gives me a lot of heartburn that a candidate that is this close, at least ideologically,

to putin, that has several senior advisers very close to the kremlin in different ways, that we would share any information about russia, particularly -- can you imagine if the topic of russian cyberefforts came up. i would feel very uncomfortae getting into that with a candidate with this kind of background. >> yeah, and especially what's happening now in iran. it is, it's got to cause a lot of concerns. >> thank you so much, ranking member of the house intelligence committee, congressman adam schiff, greatly appreciate it. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." both on the track and thousands of miles away. with the help of at&t, red bull racing can share critical information about every inch of the car from virtually anywhere. brakes are getting warm. confirmed, daniel you need to cool your brakes. understood, brake bias back 2 clicks. giving them the agility to have speed & precision. because no one knows & like at&t.

i'm hillary clinton, and i approve this message. michael hayden: if he governs consistent with some of the things he said as a candidate, i would be very frightened. gillian turner: he's been talking about the option of using a nuclear weapon against our western european allies. max boot: this is not somebody who should be handed the nuclear codes. charles krauthammer: you have to ask yourself, do i want a person of that temperament controlling the nuclear codes? and as of now, i'd have to say no. [bill o'reilly sighs]

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up next, much more on this morning's overhaul for the trump campaign. there's 83 days to go until the election, the republican nominee is shaking up the campaign's leadership. plus, another day, more bad polls for donald trump. and more bad news for paul manafort. clinton actually now in the polls is closer to winning some conservative strongholds than she is to losing swing states. we'll dig into all the numbers and much more when "morning joe" comes back. you can watch your favorite team no matter where you live. like broncos or colts. (cashier) cool. (peyton) ah...18. the old number. ooh. i have got a coupon for that one. (vo) get nfl sunday ticket - only on directv. and watch live games anywhere.

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hhis stellar notebooks will last through june. get back to great. this week sharpie twelve-packs just three dollars. office depot officemax. gear up for school. gear up for great. i am who i am. that's me. i don't want to change.

everyone talks about, oh, you're going to pivot -- i don't want to pivot. you have to be you. if you start pivoting, you're not being honest with people. because i've heard this over the years, and you know, with politics. with general politics. also having to do with me. no, i am who i am. i've gotten here in a landslide and we'll see what happens. in the end -- and don't forget, when i lost wisconsin, it was over for trump, except for one problem, i then went on a very good run. but, no, i am who i am. >> all right. popeye. good morning. it is wednesday, august 17th. mika that has morning off. where is she now? i think she's in croatia. >> it's the fashionable place to be this summer. >> i actually think she's in portugal. >> i guess it is. >> i put a low jack on her before she left. >> very good. >> tracking device. >> yeah, not surprising. are >> with us, managing editor of

bloomberg politics and co-host of "with all due respect," mark halperin. best supporting actor on that role, donny deutsch. >> guest hosting, we're in the middle of week two. >> how's he doing? >> there are twists and turns and surprises. yesterday he told us his first television appearance ever was on the mclaughlin group. >> i don't believe it. msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson. and washington anchor for bbc world news america, katty kay. and on capitol hill, rick tyler. let's talk about john mclaughlin. that was -- boy, he filled a space in washington for a long time. >> he invented something. he was the sort of political talk show. he kind of set this format that many, many others have, you know, have taken and have modified or whatever. but the mclaughlin group was -- >> he was still hosting until a

few days ago. >> right, right! >> unbelievable. that will be you, joe, at the age of 89! >> right. >> i think mclaughlin missed one show in 34 years. >> isn't that -- >> i think it was the one right before he died. >> are you suggesting that i may not have the same caliber -- >> i'm not suggesting anything. i'm just throwing out facts. >> i guess, i guess so. but, i mean, he was just a dominant figure in washington politics for decades and decades. and most importantly to us, always would have our dear brother, buchanan on with him. >> and you know, fred barnes and -- >> yeah. >> i don't think you can overstate the degree to which he has invented what all of us do. the influence of that show, back in the day without cable tv, that show on a weekly basis did what that show does 15 hours a week. but that show stood alone. there was nothing like it.

there were other shows, but nothing else with the sensibility of showing the country, what people in washington and in politics were talking about in a very sophisticated and combative way. >> yeah. so, let's talk about, we've got a lot of news this morning, but let's talk really quickly before we dig into it, too deeply. about what's happened. the trump campaign as turned everything up side down. actually, they brought on a couple of more hands to try to fill out the campaign. and mark, what i'm hearing is, that -- stop me if you've heard this before, but the donald trump understands now. it's taken the last two weeks. it's taken the terrible polls for donald trump to finally understand, he's got to shift to a general election strategy. he's got to stick to script. he's got to stop attacking republicans and people like the

khans and he's got to focus himself on the fall. and he and people very close to him believe that if he does that, you know, they can win the fall and win the campaign. they all believe, and he still believes, they've got the issues on their side and they've got change on their side. and they also have for the first time, money in their bank account. and say they're going to spend $30 million to $50 million in states like ohio, pennsylvania, and florida over the next month or so. >> the olympics end, the ads go up on friday, they say they're going to stay up all the way through with paid media. on the message side, i think that may be the most important thing that's happening here. the personnel things we can talk about. he had a sound bite yesterday, saying, basically, the old political media establish order needs to go. we need change for the people. that sound bite, i believe, is something he'll repeat a version of regularly, maybe every day. and you now have, traveling with him regularly, kelly ann conway,

one of the most disciplined, sophisticated message deliverers in the republican party, who's very close to mike pence. very close to donald trump. and you've got, in steve bannon, someone who can help manage. it's laughable how small the operation is. and paul manafort rarely traveled with the candidate and was dealing with strategy and management. so now, there's no doubt. >> now manafort moves to messaging, which is what -- >> messaging and big strategy. >> which is what manafort is so -- >> so now you will have a traveling campaign manager in kellyanne conway, someone who can be with trump and try to keep him on message and keep him from getting distracted by chasing rabbits down holes. >> and tonight he's going to say, i have to say this, so people won't go, with oh, they're, you know, kicking lucy's football again, he's going to say that actually hillary clinton is married secretly to a martian. >> exactly, exactly.

>> the question is, can -- we have to just say that. can -- will this stick? how long will this stick? how long can donald stay disciplined? >> he said, i think it was yesterday. i don't want to pivot. everybody tells me to pivot, you know. and his argument is, number one, that's not how he got to where he is. he beat everybody in the primaries, so why should he pivot? and number two, it wouldn't be honest, he is who he is. and that's all that he is, i guess. and he's like popeye. and so he's going to -- so that's going to be attention. if kellyanne who is really respected, really disciplined, really smarter. she's a pollster. she will have empirical data to back up her ideas about what he ought to be saying and when and where, but you envision her as kind of, you know, what -- is she going to have some sort of remote control for her vocal cords? i don't know. >> you know, it's going to be

important that she's going to be there, if she stays there with him. because who better than somebody who's been a pollster for 25, 30 years, to say, yes, donald, we're now going to orlando, and yes, there are 30,000 people out there, and that's a remarkable crowd. here's the latest poll. you're down nine in florida. you already have those people. and that's what the trump campaign's telling me this morning is, that they understand, and he understands, finally, they've got to reach independence. they've got to stop preaching to the choir. >> the question is, can he do it, right? >> exactly. >> and how many times have we had this conversation, with a personnel change, in the campaign, and it's lasted -- >> the thing is, it's all up to donald, right? i think we said this in the fall, didn't we? the only person who can beat donald is donald.

>> yeah. "the wall street journal" was the first to report that trump is installing two new figures at the top of his campaign. they are steve bannon, the chairman of conservative breitbart news, and pollster kel kellyanne conway, she left a super pac for ted cruz earlier. bannon will serve as campaign chief executive. conway will serve as campaign manager. "washington post" reporter and nbc contributor robert costa reports that while paul manafort will remain campaign chairman, trump wanted to bring on someone like bannon, who shares his populism and relishes combat. >> and you know what's important, katty, people might say, relishes combat, oh, no -- focused combat is good. what is it, politics is war by another means. >> then we had rick perry yesterday reviving, god knows why, the dispute president with

the khan family again. let it go! so whilst you have some people in the campaign saying we need order and structure and discipline and messaging, there are trump himself, as gene was say, saying, i'm not going to pivot, i am who i am. and perry saying that it was shocking that the khan family took on donald trump. >> has ben ever been involved in a political campaign? that we know of? >> not anything like this. >> one of the things i'm wondering is how the dynamic between him and kellyanne is supposed to work. >> so rick tyler, you've never known him to be involved in political campaigns. what do you think about -- what do you think about the shake up? what do you think about the personnel? >> bannon is a little controversial. you'll probably hear from people who have worked with bannon, he's not the easiest person to get along with. he has a very volatile temper. and he's never worked on a campaign. we'll see if he's actually there to manage a campaign when he's never done one before. we'll see. i think kellyanne conway is a good addition if she does

actually travel with him. because trump is obsessed with polls, he always has been. and she can easily say to him, look, he's behind in this state, and these are the words that will work. this is the language that he should be using, and show progress. and the other important thing that was mentioned, he said, he's already got those people in the room. he needs to speak through the camera and to the people who are watching, and those are the people he needs to get. and if he can understand that, maybe he can get on message. i'm skeptical, but we'll see. >> does this mean, though, that he basically has to be kept to a teleprompter? >> well, he did last night. he actually had a good speech last night. >> good speech last night, right? >> provocative speech, conservative speech on "law & order" and how crime is affecting the black community. i don't know that he's going to win over the black community, but i thought it was a very good speech and a disciplined speech and it was the right message. >> what i thought was interesting, mark halperin, is by speaking to the black community, you know, the bush people always say, you know what? if we can get more than 7 or 8%

of black voters, that will be fantastic. but the message that we're trying to send are also to the moms in philly suburbs, that we're not harsh, that we're not crazy. that actually, we're not going to be shrill and not going to be that type of campaigner. >> in talking to trump sources this morning, the ones who were up early -- >> a lot of them were up early. >> it's pretty clear that if you wake up this morning and see the headlines, changes trump in the campaign, you're missing at least half the news of what's going on with the trump campaign today, between the new ads, finally going up, between his speech last night. there is a message there, now. that is the one that paul manafort, many republicans in congress wanted to see him run on. the chances that he'll run on it, if people are right to be skeptical, putting kellyanne on the plane with him is different than anything they've ever had.

when corey was on the campaign, he was interested in letting trump do what trump wanted to do. you now have someone on the plane that trump trusts, he believes in her instincts about how to drive a message, and if she's the there, there's a chance he'll stay on the message from last night. >> what corey understood was trump being trump helped trump win the republican primary. >> right, right, right. and corey called that exactly right. we're at a stage now where trump being trump is not the way -- >> yeah, it's not a play -- >> to swing voters in milwaukee. >> you look at those state polls, and it's, you know, it's not looking good for him. you know, i saw this piece last night, directed at african-americans, there were hardly any, if any african-americans in the room, but clearly he was speaking through to the camera last night. >> which is what he needs to do. >> which is a good thing to do. but i saw that more as damage control from that devastating

phrase in th "new york times" piece that the words that came up far too often in describing trump were "unqualified" and "racist." and those are deadly words for those -- for people in the philadelphia suburbs and the cleveland suburbs and all those places where he needs votes. >> still ahead on "morning joe," virginia looks like it's slipping away from donald trump in the general election. and is it possible that texas could be in play? we're going to have those new numbers for you. but first, some 82,000 people are told to evacuate southern california, as a fast-moving fire is expanding to 18,000 acres in no time at all. bill karins has the very latest for us. bill, what's happening out there? >> joe, this fire started about 60 miles he's of los angeles, about 10:30 yesterday morning. it was a brush fire and it quickly spread. it was like 100 degrees, low humidity, the wind was blowing. and overnight, unfortunately, we have new pictures in of structures that are burning. a lot of these people have evacuated and for good reason. and these just beautiful homes that are just crumbling down to

the ground in this area. it is 0% contained. that means they were dumping water on it all night long, but with the dry conditions, they still don't have any control on where this fire is going and heading. so for today, red flag warning in southern california, with those fires, it could easily be 100 degrees once again there today. the other story, louisiana. this is just a horrific tragedy. already 60,000 people have registered with fema. they're estimating 40,000 homes had water in them at some point or another. imagine how many people have to go in their homes and see this destruction throughout this region. the before and afters are just horrible, too. so that area, today, is a little bit drier. flash flood watches continue throughout areas of texas, and the rest of the forecast for today, watch out around washington, d.c., chance of some afternoon thunderstorms and scattered storms in the southeast. but, again, the fire in the west, we'll be watching in california, and also as the water slowly recedes, we'll see just how bad and how heartbreaking it is in louisiana. leaving you at of new york city -- excuse me, not new york! we're going to rio.

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together, we're building a better california. i'm fighting, all of us across the country are fighting for peaceful regime change in our own country. the media donor political complex that's bled this country dry has to be replaced with a new government of, by, and for the people. >> you know, that's a good line. and it's a good line for a lot of reasons. but it's a really good line, because it actually does encapsulate what his entire campaign's about. why, it's almost as if -- we're going to try this. let's see how this works. he's making a pivot.

there -- every time we say "pivot," we'll be putting that up. let's try that again. >> i thought the asterisk was, when you say, he's on message. >> no. it's almost as if this campaign is beginning, mark -- what do you think? try it out. >> it's almost like he's making a pivot. [ ding ] >> where's the asterisk? he didn't get the asterisk. >> we've got to work on that. >> needs a little work. >> we used to do that for when i was in congress. >> good color scheme on the asterisk. >> it's a good color scheme. >> all right, katty, it needs work. >> a new monmouth university poll in florida yesterday showed him down nine points with clinton at 48% and trump at 39. in texas, democratic firm public policy polling found trump had a

loss of six points. and virginia, he was also down. analysis from "the post" finds that clinton is closer to winning red states than she is to losing swing states. the disappearing battle ground state. >> again, the cook political reporter yesterday, mark halperin, you look at the states that are solidly hillary clinton, you're already at 272. i think you're exactly right. there's going to have to be a wave nationally to get those races closer. >> well, he's -- he has to hope that between now and pretty much the first week of september, the tv advertising message discipline, a pivot -- >> yeah, they're not. >> -- and bringing republicans home. he can cut the gap in these states by a lot, if he brings republicans home in some numbers.

i'm not saying he will be able to do that, but that, alone, would allow him to go into labor day, being able to tell republicans -- >> how fast does he have to do it, mark? >> i think by the first week of september, he needs to be able to get people to stop saying, hillary's already over 270. i think he's got to do that by the first or second week of september. because, otherwise, it's going to be very difficult to keep the party focused on the top of the ticket. >> talk about bringing republicans home, there's just no way virginia ought to be gone already for the republican candidate. i mean, virginia is a state that has been becoming bluer, but, i -- you know, i know virginia pretty well, and i would not say, it's a solid blue state. i just wouldn't say that. >> well, no,t's not. >> but you look at trump's numbers there, he has -- he is just nowhere in northern virginia -- >> what -- what did bob mcdonnell win by in 2010? my god, like 16, 17 points.

>> yeah, no -- >> it's not a -- >> the legislature is totally republican, apparently. basically. >> he's getting like 18%, i believe, this number, fewer republicans than romney got. >> well, this is, again, rick, you know, i always say, i can teach somebody how to win a republican primary in five minutes. it's just, it's gut. and of course, you guys, if you have the right candidate, you guys laser focused, targeting, better than anybody else. that's extraordinarily important. but you get into the general election, it goes from gut to really, it's the head. and it's math. and it's targeting, and i, you know, i don't have to even look in the numbers to know, he's getting killed in the d.c. suburbs, because college-educated people are running away from him as fast as they can. and that's -- that's going to take a sustained effort by donald trump, day in and day out and day in and day out for a month or two, to get those college-educated republican voters back. >> well, and he's losing every

part of virginia except the southeast, which is coal country. so -- and that's understandable, because of hillary clinton's remarks about coal. what's actually shocking to me is that hillary clinton is within six points of texas. i mean, texas is a republican state through and through. and that one, he's got to lock up. he can't afford to lose texas, steve. nine points in florida is very concerning. if he loses florida, his path is really, really, really narrow. >> there is no path. the path is back to trump towers and the golf courses if he loses florida. >> and it seems like something, joe, something cataclysmic would have to happen in terms of the hillary clinton campaign. i don't know -- people understand what donald trump's message is. he could be more message disciplined, if mark halperin said. he doesn't need to change his message, he needs to stick to his message and make a case against hillary. but it seems like something really dramac is going to have to happen to turn this thing around. >> coming up on "morning joe,"

donald trump says he doesn't want to pivot, but what's was promoting new people to run his campaign a pivot? we'll bring in mike murphy and elise jordan when "morning joe" returns. she spent summer binge-watching. soon, she'll be binge-studying. now she writes mostly in emoji. soon, she'll type the best essays in the entire 8th grade. today, the only spanish words he knows are burrito and enchilada. soon, he'll take notes en espanol. get back to great with the right gear. from the place with the experts. office depot officemax. gear up for school. gear up for great. i'm hillary clinton, and i approve this message. michael hayden: if he governs consistent with some of the things he said as a candidate, i would be very frightened. gillian turner: he's been talking about the option of using a nuclear weapon against our western european allies. max boot: this is not somebody who should be handed the nuclear codes.

charles krauthammer: you have to ask yourself, do i want a person of that temperament controlling the nuclear codes? and as of now, i'd have to say no. [bill o'reilly sighs]

and as of now, i'd have to say no. [ clock titime. ] you only have so much. that's why we want to make sure you won't have to wait on hold. and you won't have to

guess when we'll turn up. because after all we should fit into your life. not the other way around. hillary clinton lacks the judgment, as said by bernie sanders, stability, and temperament and the moral

character to lead our nation. she also lacks the mental and physical stamina to take on isis and all of the many adversaries we face. >> donald trump gave a speech yesterday. one of the things he said is that hillary clinton lacks the mental and physical stamina to be commander in chief. what did you make of those remarks? how do you interrupt that? >> i have no idea what he's talking about. i mean, did you see the incredible amount of work that hillary did around the world? her travel schedule as secretary of state. and look at the grueling nature of this campaign. >> what do you think is really going on if he questions her physical stamina? >> he's trying to deflect attention. the real issue is his lack of the kind of temperament to be commander in chief and to be president. >> that was a new interview with tim kaine just moments ago on the "today" show. the clinton campaign hitting back about questions about her health and fitness and her

stability. and what else did trump say, her -- her temperament! and what else? consistency! and moral character. anyway. hillary's doctors released a statement saying she's in excellent health and that she's tried to clear up any confusion after fake medical records alleging clinton was in poor health started making the rounds online. the clinton campaign released a statement saying, while it is dismaying to see the republican nominee for president push deranged conspiracy theories in a foreign policy speech, it's no longer surprising. hillary clinton has released a detailed medical record showing her to be in excellent health, plus her personal tax returns since 1977. with us now, former adviser to senator rand paul and contributor to "time" magazine, msnbc political analyst, elise jordan, and republican political strategist, nbc news political analyst, mike murphy of radio free gop. so -- i'll start with you, mike.

guys, are you ready for the button? are you ready for the button. >> we're practicing. >> so, mike, it looks as if the trump campaign has actually put a reset forward. >> yeah, they're trying a switch, a change -- >> hold on a second. we need a ding here. >> a pivot! >> that's it. the pivot. do you have a ding? >> soundless. >> the pivot is finally real. >> i'm dubious, because this is staff pivot. >> of course. >> 3.0. we've been through a couple of these. and we've got plenty of time left. could trump change? maybe. but he's trump. it's unlikely. like, my labrador could walk up to the piano and start play, not going to bet on it. trump is trump. >> it's all up to him. at the end of the day, it's all him. >> it's all him. >> so, elise, trump's getting absolutely slaughtered in polls because he's losing republican women, he's losing college-educated republicans.

what can he do moving forward? >> well, he needs to moderate his message and i don't think that by putting steve bannon of breitbart in charge of his campaign, that's the way it's going to happen. you know, this is a publication that since andrew breitbart's passing has just gotten more and more extreme, conspiratorial, and has really just stoked the worst within the gop. >> how much of it is the message and how much of it is the messenger? >> i think it's 100% the messenger at the end of the day. and that's donald trump. this all falls to donald trump. he can keep firing people. he did the same a thing with lewandowski, now manafort. he doesn't like it when people's personal press becomes distracting. but it's, what, 83 days until the election. >> so even the rough populist message might be okay if a messenger were less off-putting and offensive to -- again, i'm talking, mainly to college-educated republicans, the type of people who have voted republican their entire life and are saying they can't

vote for trump. >> i think it comes down to tolerance. if middle of the road voters think they're voting for an intolerant person, they're not going to do it. that's what's keeping a lot of people on the fence. especially college-educated women and women in general. >> we're look welcome gene, at colorado, florida, north carolina, virginia. you know what those numbers -- i mean, it's college-educated wirt vot white voters, the suburbs of denver, he's getting slaughtered. you can look at the suburbs of tampa, getting slaughtered. north carolina, the same. the suburbs of d.c., absolutely routed. >> so, and the reason i suspect why those college-educated voters, those republicans, regular republicans, are rejecting trump is because of trump. >> gene, gene, you don't have to suspect. ask me. >> well, right. >> no, just ask me. >> well, why reject trump? >> because, as i've been saying for eight months, i'll never vote for a guy who supports a muslim ban. a guy who pretends that he

doesn't know who david duke is. a guy who pretends he doesn't know who the ku klux klan are. there you go, multiply that millions of times. >> so my question for mike, given your vast experience with campgn a guy like trump, even if trump can pretend not to be trump, for a few weeks, does that make a difference? >> well, trump's in a bad situation where the preface to trump is, polling loser, and potential madman, donald trump, today, said the metric system -- or whatever the thing is. his boiography is now unsuitability. that's a huge hole to dig out of and it requires amazing discipline, which is the one thing i don't think he has. >> i asked you both about breitbart. neither of you know steve bannon, right? >> no. >> my colleague, josh green, wrote a profile of him in "businessweek" last week, and he described breitbart has a haven

for people who think fox news is too polite and constrained. what role does breitbart play in the conservative movement? >> i think the trump campaign made a big decision by double down and win the republican primary by going back to the hot sauce even more. he's never got in the general election. now he's doubling down. and there's no one at the top of that thing that's been around a big campaign, let alone a presidential campaign. >> many of the campaigns you work for are the same behind the camera as they are in front of the camera. for trump to pivot, he has to go back to who he's been off-camera for 12 years. i've known him for 12 years. time and time again, he doesn't go around making racist statements. it's just not a part of him. it's -- and you look at a lot of aspects of his life, when you see him in private, he's actually the guy that goes, mike murphy, the greatest tactician afteron t

ever on the -- and he doesn't talk about himselves. so what do you do toring out -- say, hey, donald! donald, stop being such a jerk. how about you try being the way you are when you're charming everybody in your personal life? >> that's the check mate he's in. because if the real donald comes out, then it makes the public donald a complete lie. >> yeah. >> you know, you've got to be what you decide to run on. he made his choices, and now he's living with them in a general election, which is why i think -- i just saw some data on those philly suburbs. >> whoa! >> yeah, he's going to be president of alabama. >> there are not enough -- i was going to say, there are not enough voters in central pennsylvania to make up for philadelphia. we're going to keep everybody here, because you're having such an incredible time. we're going to see if the asterisk works complete with sound effects. and new polls also showing the episode between donald trump and the khan family didn't hurt him among military families, but apparently, rick perry wants to press his luck. we're back in a moment. [chains dragging]

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so donald trump's recent spat with a gold star family of a fallen iraq soldier doesn't steam to be hurting his standing with military families. a new nbc survey monkey poll shows trump with a double-digit lead over hillary clinton in military households, 51-41%. the results are in line with st republican presidential candidates who won veteran support by a similar margin. but this is what trump supporter, former governor, and i'll say, our friend, rick perry, said yesterday. >> mr. khan is the one that went out and struck the first blow. and in a campaign, if you're going to go out and think that you can take a shot at somebody and not have him coming back at you, i think shame on you. i think the democrats used him in a way that, quite frankly, i'm not quite sure that i approve of.

we love our veterans, we love our gold star families. but the fact of the matter is, mr. khan politically used his time on that stage to go after donald trump. why in the world he thought that he was going to get a free ride with that, is beyond me. he shouldn't get a free ride, when he's going to inject himself in the political arena. >> a question i'd ask any republican is why in the world would you keep bringing this up. and if somebody asked you, we honor our veterans, we certainly honor our fallen veterans, and we honor gold star moms. what's your next question? >> it's surprising from rick perry, too, because previously, he had disavowed the comments that trump had made about john mccain being a dishonorable soldier, because he was captured. it just really is baffling. >> you cit can't have escaped r perry that this did not work for donald trump politically, so why bring it up?

>> was that a turning moment of the campaign? was the khan showdown holding up that constitution? >> it was the high drama moment of the convention, and that began the crumpling of trump. that's when all the polling tipped. and that's what drove trump crazy to become more erratic, and here we are. >> and mark halperin, what's with the surrogates? over the weekend, you had a surrogate blaming barack obama for the invasion of afghanistan. kind of got that one wrong. what's with the surrogates? >> they don't get the same frequency of talking points as the collin surrogates do, so a lot of them are out there on their own, talking about what they want to talk about. >> like, basic history lessons, rent history? >> the comnt like the terrorist attack. that was just so strange. >> all this endless speculation about down-ballot people breaking from trump, or our party diverting resources. what would that look like? what would the actual trigger for that be if it happened? >> on america's fastest growing political podcast, we talked

about that this morning. cheap plug. >> radio free gop. >> and if i was a blue state senator or advising one, in that realm, i would wait until the end of the olympics and use that as the pivot to get the hell away from trump. these guys have two choices. they either go into the philadelphias, like toomey in those suburbs or kelly ayotte up in new hampshire, and they hold on to trump, or they try this kind of middle language that offenses everybody. and i think they get clobbered. or they take the risk that their primary voters, maybe half of them now are fairly super-pro trump, decide in the end they don't like schumer and get a lot of them back. i think that's by far the better bet. use the olympics as a moment of unity, a moment to show ow our country is multi-cultural and interesting and all of that. it makes it impossible to abide trump's language. just say, i won't vote for him, i can't vote for him, and stop talking. >> all right. we will stop talking. mike murphy, thank you. elise, thank you so much for being with us. and coming up next, could the euro end up being the downfall

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do you think a fractured europe is good for america? >> no, no, but we're spending a lot of money on europe. don't forget. europe got together. why, primarily, did day get together? so they could beat the united

states when it comes to making money. >> an economic trade. >> and now we talk about europe like so wonderful. hey, i love europe. i have property in europe. i'm just say welcome the reason that it got together was like a consortium, so it could compete with the united states. >> so what you're saying -- >> with us now, we've got nobel prize winning columnist, best-selling author, joseph stiglitz. he is out with a new book, "the euro: how a common currency threatens the future of europe." also at the table, cnbc's brian sullivan. great to have you back with us again. thank you so much. what went wrong? what went wrong with the euro? >> it was flawed a to t eed at . >> in what way? >> trying to bring the countries of europe together with a single currency. and they're very, very different. >> right. and so it created a single institution. took away the ability to adjust the interest rates, the exchange rates. and didn't put anything in its someplace. and so, you created a whole set

of jirigidties. and they added to that a set of rules. >> i was going to say, it was flawed at birth, but then you believe, that they -- the regulations that they put in place were exactly the opposite of what they needed to do. >> exactly. so, some of the things that they put in place were things like the central bank, monetary policy, only focuses on inflation, doesn't care about jobs or growth or financial stability. they put in rules that said, even if you're in a deep recession, depression, you could not stimulate the economy by running a deficit of more than 3%. >> just a complete lack of flexibility. >> exactly. >> suggesting that what happens in germany is the same that's going to be happening in greece. >> not only what was happening, but, the structure of the economies, the nature of their societies, were similar. and even the set of beliefs. you know, one of the big debates right now is, what do you do when an economy is weak? when an economy is weak,

naturally, you're going to get a deficit. germany's answer is to go back to herbert hoover. and say -- >> right! >> let's have a -- let's have, you know, raise taxes, cut back spending, and that's going to bring you back. southern europe's answer is, well, maybe there's some insights that we've learned from the great, the new deal, from what happened -- >> can i anger 27 of 28 european nations right now. should germany go it on their own? >> i think so. >> go back to the deutsche mart and leaf the eu. >> there is an alternative, which is, they could create the institutions that we created when we formed the united states of america and in the subsequent years, we created a common banking system, where, when washington mutual goes down, it's not washington state that bails it out. it's the federal deposit insurance corporation. it's the national institution. so we created the national

institutions that make a single currency work for 50 relatively diverse -- >> while still providing the flexibility for the 50 diverse states. because culturally, just like alabama and california are different, northern europe and southern europe, completely different. >> even more different. >> and so they didn't -- they didn't accommodate that kind of diversity, and the result of it was, it was intended to do two things. it was intended to increase prosperity, and as that prosperity grew, the sense of solidarity among the european nations would grow, and that would lead them to be able to go towards greater political, you know, solidarity. and it's had just the opposite effect. it's led to these recessions, depressions, you know -- >> bailouts, bailouts, bailouts. >> what do you think's going to happen?

will the euro inevitably crumble, do you think? >> the best thing that they could do, and answers joe's question is, to finish the project, create the institutions, the question you're shaking your head -- >> no, no, he's asking me a question, do i want to turn to trump? no, i want to keep talking about this. go ahead. >> okay, so what they should do is finish the project, create these institutions, but germany says, europe is not a transfer union. says, you know, we're not going to help a poor country. and that means it's not a union. and if they can't finish the job, and i describe exactly what they need to do, not a lot, economically, but politically, more than they're going to be able to do, then you need is what i describe as one form or another of an amicable divorce. then the question that you raise is what is the best way of doing it. and the best way of doing it is for germany to leave or to

create a system of more flexible europe. i talk about a system of flexible euro, where you have northern europe, a southern europe. they can differ from each other. >> if you take the 50%, bottom performing countries in the eu, economically, what can they do to have stronger economies? besidings tourism, what can they excel at in the world economy? >> one of the things that's hampering them today, they can't lower their exchange rate to make things more competitive. i've seen this all over the world. if you have your exchange rate consistently too high, it destroys your export industries. you can't compete on imports. and really it devastates your economy. if you look at what these countries that are today in trouble were doing before the creation of the euro, many of them were growing faster than the average of europe. >> professor, just because time is tight. can i jump in? obviously, you worked with bill clinton, head of the council of

economic advisers, a chief ar tect of nafta. on the right, nafta has become a four-letter word. can you defend nafta for those who are still wary of what it means? >> well, nafta has some good things to it, but it also has some bad things. when the clinton administration made nafta, it was drafted by the bush administration and they didn't want to renegotiate it and that was the problem. and there were some parts of nafta that were particularly bad. when -- >> so you inherited a framework? >> not only a framework, but the language. so chapter 11, most people don't know about, we never discussed. it was the investment agreement. that's the part of tpp that elizabeth warren has been criticizing. it's the worst part, in my judgment, because what it does is, it's a provision, not about trade, it's a provision to

protect corporate interests. and says, if investors come into the united states, we change the regulation, climate regulation, asbestos regulation, you name it, if the foreign company's profits go down, we have to pay them. we have to pay them for -- compensate them for any losses. >> yeah, that's -- >> it's an amazing provision. >> it really is. all right. well, professor, thank you so much for being with us. great, timely book. i wish we had more time to talk to you. i hope you can come back sometime soon. >> would love to do that. >> the book is the euro. brian sullivan, stay with us, and we're going to find out what we learned today. mornings.♪ (peyton) you know with directv nfl sunday ticket you can watch your favorite team no matter where you live. like broncos or colts. (cashier) cool. (peyton) ah...18. the old number.

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now he's added a new routine. making depositing a check seem so effortless. easy to use chase technology, for whatever you're trying to master. isaac, are you ready? yeah. chase. so you can. it's time to find out what we learned today. i'll tell you what i learned today. that we've got the best graphics department going. because, look at this, donald trump, we believe, may be making a pivot. there we go! the asterisk! they got it by the end of the show. >> with sound effects. >> with sound effects. every time somebody says pivot on the show, that's going to go up, right there. they're ready now. mark, you're working furiously. >> i'm tweeting. i've got an exclusive photo of a follow-up conversation that these two guys had, professor stiglitz, on european asbestos regulation. i'll be tweeting that shortly.

>> by the way, that's one thing you can always count on "morning joe" to talk about european asbestos regulation. >> and re-regulation. what have you learned? >> i just learned from professor stiglitz, this crazy thing in nafta, where companies get reimbursed and get compensated. that's crazy stuff. and that's in tpp, too. >> it should. >> what have you learned? >> that's what i learned. >> it's way too early, it's "morning joe." let's go to stephanie right now. she picks up the coverage. >> thanks a lot, joe. those guys always have a good time. i'm stephanie rue. hope you're having a good morning. we have some breaking news. campaign shake up. donald trump upends his campaign yet again. paul manafort, effectively demoted. two new trump confidants now in charge. the campaign is bragging that one is the most dangerous political operative in america. here's the question, can he turn the campaign ou