good sunday to you. i'm richard lui at msnbc headquarters in new york city. it's 4:00 p.m. in the east, 1:00 in the west. this hour, under new management. after his campaign shakeup, donald trump makes a surprising play for african-american voters. >> in recent days across this country i've asked the african-american community to honor me with their vote. >> then there are the third party candidates. they see an opening. my conversation with libertarian presidential nominee gary johnson, how he's affecting the race between clinton and trump. plus, ryan lochte comes clean. the olympic swimming champion talks exclusively to nbc about what really happened that night in rio and about the backlash that followed. very good day to you. donald trump turns his focus to a new voting block. that's where we start this hour at the fourth straight rally in

a row donald trump made a pitch to african-american voters. in virginia last night he told the crowd the rnc could do a better job reaching out to black voters. >> the outreach to the african-american community is in an area where the republican party must do better. and it will do better. >> nbc's jacob rascon was at that rally last night in virginia. you listened to everything he had to say. he's joining us from washington. jacob, as you look at this and we've been talking over the last day or so, how about this courting of african-american voters being really more than african-american voters? >> yeah, it seems to be about more than just getting support from african-american voters. of course he's at 1% in our latest poll with them, so the only way he can go is up. but if you think about it, the core criticism from many of donald trump's campaign is that he is a racist or somehow is appealing only to white voters

or mostly to them doing terribly with minorities, calling for a ban on muslims early on and for a wall at the border. and this is donald trump consistently now four rallies in a row making an extended appeal to african-american voters talking about the inner cities and hoping that his message about in his words democratic leadership failure in the inner cities will resonate. asked about criticism of him making this appeal, his son eric said this. >> it's interesting as a non-politician stepping in seeing how engrained politics are in certain people that they can never take off the blinders and look outside the, you know, their party, the party they've always voted for before. but, again, if you look at what democrats have done, you know, for inner cities, for inner city youth, again, 60% unemployment. they've never done anything. they've always promised great things and nothing ever happens. part of my father's message last

night is why not try something new? why not give me a chance? why not bring jobs back to this country? let me fix an educational system that's a total disaster. >> so to summaryize you probably have three things here. you have an appeal to minorities and to get an actual bump in the polls from african-americans. and then you have him trying to show off in his words democratic failures in the inner cities. and going at this core criticism of him that he doesn't care about minority voters. >> nbc's jacob rascon talking about donald trump's pivot we've seen over the last four days. part of that is going after the african-american vote. thank you so much, jacob. and also this morning rnc chairman reince priebus he gave his take on donald trump's latest moves. take a listen. >> the question is whether or not in the fall making the case to the american people that the outsider, which is what the american people want, which is what they want, they want that outsider, they want that product

that donald trump presents. not hillary clinton. but they also need to know it's going to be a safe product. and i think if you look at the last week and a half, i think donald trump understands it. i think he's being consistent. >> joining us now real clear politics analyst, democratic strategist principle at 270 strategies. start with this, reince priebus saying want a safe product. but his statements over the last four days, does this inoculate him from that criticism that ranks pretty high that he may be racist? >> not yet. it's one thing to talk about this in speeches, talk about outreach in speeches. it's another to follow it up with campaign events and outreach, actual outreach by the campaign. that's what trump has been criticized for in addition to the rhetoric. and so we'll see over the next couple of weeks or so if he makes those overtures real. and that has not happened yet. >> part of those overtures

really are as he not only tries to bring the rnc but his campaign together, right? getting all the resources moving together to try to win this election. one of the dynamics you might hear from some of the staffers at the r in, c and perhaps the trump campaign, we're in two very different places and we don't know each other yet. one's in d.c., one's in new york. has that played at all to this bounce that reince priebus has tried to work with the trump campaign make happen? >> i don't think it is to the extent you're going into it. i believe where i think it matters it's a newer campaign. hillary's been planning her campaign for eight years. she's been going in lock step with people who know how she thinks, know what she wants, the deputies know how the next deputies down think and feel. so since there's a newness to it, that may be the toughest thing about it. but the fact they're in d.c. and new york, remember, the challenge in the box when you're managing a race is what you do with your time and who you delegate to and how you make sure things get done. travel the candidate, stay in the office -- >> team building. >> go out and raise money.

there's all kinds of facets of a campaign that matter. frankly, if you're all at one place in one time in a national campaign it doesn't work that way either. >> part of the messaging we saw from donald trump last night was also attacking the hillary clinton campaign. today bobby mook blaming right wing attacks for the clinton foundation and her state department. but the criticisms are from other places as well as you know. what do you think is the better answer for the democratic nominee here? >> well, look, i think she's -- the answer is she's faced these criticisms for the last quarter century as she has very famously said right wing conspiracy. the answer is she's always continued to get back up and fight for women and children and for the disadvantaged. i think they're going to continue to push that message. if i can make one quick point about donald trump's outreach over the last week, i think we should stop the charades.

this isn't really outreach to the african-american community. this is really trying to send a signal to swing voters that he isn't racist. but you really undermine that when that same day that you're making that outreach you release an ad that attacks immigrants, a senior advisor to your campaign when asked about presenting this outreach in front of a 95% white audience in diamonddale says where should we have done this in front of a burning car when talking about african-americans, the message is inconsistent and i think that's going to be the problem. fundamentally donald trump's campaign is about di visiveness and that's why he's not able to maintain this. >> coming -- calling you kellyanne because i'm about to go to what she said yesterday, but kate lin, as we look at what harry's bringing up here, there is that issue that he's discussing of this still duality because his ad according to "the

washington post" rate four pinocchios related to illegal immigrants. this as if you're trying to, if you will, cater to the minority vote and the schematics around it. this devisiveness continues. >> it does. i think the vaj for donald trump is really whether these impressions of him are baked in at this point. >> five weeks from early voting. >> right. from early voting. which is really critical. this has been a very -- people have been paying attention to this election for a really long time now. labor day is no longer the real pivot point, i don't think. he does have opportunities to turn some of these things around, but whether these impressions of him can be reversed i think is a big question. >> and to that point here, o'brien, you know, kate, rnc communication director sean spicer we're hearing is going to be spending time at that tower you and i were talking about earlier working along with kellyanne conway, to work -- we

can all go. we'll all join them. to try to form that message, that moderation. yet you've got bannon on the other side from breitbart. is this going to be the perfect mix? >> there's a saying at the white house, powers in proximity to the president. you can have the broom closet right next to the oval and you're pretty powerful opposed the corner office down at the old eob or something. so right now with spicer coming up to new york it shows importance, shows proximity to trump, it shows opportunity for him to be able to get the message across to help kellyanne at this point. >> and bannon is there too. >> of course. but remember, kellyanne's the manager, one is ceo. they'll have defined roles. and you've got spicer there as well which means there are three people there able to get that message out across the team so they're all on the same page walking lockstep and can go forward to win in november. >> is this all a setup, harry, as you look at it? bannon, spicer as well as conway

coming together, a setup to ready him for that first debate? and is it enough? >> yeah, the problem is your candidate's still donald trump. you know, in the end he's the guy that the people are going to be listening to most often. so even the other day when he's supposedly reaching out to african-americans, he's still talking about folks stealing elections based on lack of id. that doesn't go over well with minority communities. >> but he's playing to the minority communities there, hari. is he basically saying african-american community look at the latino american community and illegal immigration drum beat. puts the two at each other. >> yeah. you nailed it on the head. he's a divisive candidate. >> where do we see new york now? >> not in the broom closet. >> it was fixed under rudy giuliani and bloomberg. not democrats. what's going on in detroit? compare those cities and look at the democratic messages to the urban centers. there should be a reason why the

minority vote looks to republicans and say, look, they fixed new york, got it back on track -- >> the minority vote is in play certainly in some spaces. asian american pacific islanders -- we have to leave it there. thank you so much. we'll talk to you all three later. happening now, more evacuations in central california as a wind-driven wildfire burns 17,000 acres. and the national institute of health now says zika could be with us for one or two years. with new cases in miami beach. how officials are keeping americans safe. i love that my shop is part of the morning ritual around here. people rely on that first cup and i wouldn't want to mess with that. but when (my) back pain got bad, i couldn't sleep. i had trouble getting there on time. then i found aleve pm. aleve pm is the only one to combine a sleep aid plus the 12 hour strength of aleve. for pain relief that can last into the morning. ♪ look up at a new day... hey guys! now i'm back. aleve pm for a better am.

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happening now, it is now six wildfires burning in california today. in sthe flames are now just two

miles away from the landmark hearst castle, using bulldozers, trucks and firefighters they're trying to dig containment lines to try to protect that castle. fire officials say a separate wildfire north of san bernardino is now over 80% contained. and in louisiana cleanup from the devastating flooding is being hampered by thunderstorms today. a new flood warning in effect for the next hour. more than 100,000 homes and 7,000 businesses have been affected, according to a local business group. 13 people have lost their lives. and fema officials say more than 100,000 people have applied for federal assistance to date. president obama is due to visit the flood ravaged area on tuesday. the nih is warning the gulf coast states, particularly louisiana, are susceptible to a new zika outbreak and that the virus could remain a concern for the united states for at least the next two years. that warning comes at least five

new cases being reported in miami beach bringing the total number of home grown zika cases just in florida to 36. miami beach mayor phil levine remains confident they can contain that virus. >> we're concerned about the safety and well-being of our residents and tourists, but we think this is something we can contain. we're working with the county to make sure that we eradicate these mosquitos, very small area, 1 1/2 square miles, we're going to do everything we can to make sure we get through this. >> the mayor there with nbc's tammy lite ner. next we go live to rio for the final day of olympic competition. and we got a preview of tonight's closing ceremony. plus the battle for florida, how the thousands of po dlsh you somg better.

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controversy surrounding 12-time medalist ryan lochte shows no sign of winding down. the head of the u.s. olympic committee now vowing this afternoon that further action will be coming against lochte and three of his swimming teammates. in an exclusive interview with nbc's matt lauer, the 32-year-old admitted he overexaggerated his story. >> what i'm trying to get at is the first version of the story you told, ryan, was much more about the mean streets of rio. >> yeah. >> and the version we're hearing now is much more about a negotiated settlement to cover up some dumb behavior. >> and that's why i'm taking full responsibility for it. it is because i overexaggerated that story and if i never done that, we wouldn't be in this mess. those guys would never be in rio, or were in rio. none of this would have happened. and it was my immature behavior -- >> for more on the final day of

the olympics we go to nbc's ron mott there live for us in rio. ron, the final day. >> reporter: final day, hey there, richard. just behind me at arena number 1 the u.s. is putting a thumping on serbia. and serbia gave them a pretty good match in pool play. apparently mike's talk has pumped them up. serbia will get the silver. it's been a gold medal day for the u.s. take a look at another gold. we won two golds today. one in men's wrestling, kyle snyder. claressa shields, the pride of flint, michigan, i interviewed her before rio, she said everyone else is boxing for silver. she proved herself right. she did win gold for the second time today, winning in london as well. tonight you mentioned the closing ceremony so rio is ready to party. the theme we've been told is carnivale which is what they do very well here in brazil.

one of the big honors is walking the flag of your nation into the arena. this honor goes to one of the smallest giants of team usa, simone biles, who had a great olympics. she will be our flag bearer, so you have michael phelps opening ceremony, you've got simone biles on the bookend on the back end carrying the flag in tonight for team usa. been a great, great olympics in competition for the usa. to say nothing about what happened out of competition. here's the latest medal count. the united states 120 in the lead, china 50 back or so and great britain getting the third place mark at this point with 67 medals. the u.s. has had as we said a great olympics here minus a few headlines away from the competition. richard. >> i've enjoyed watching you and everybody else and all the competitors in rio. maybe we could restart it all over again starting on monday. you probably don't want that, ron, right? >> reporter: i think everybody here is ready to get back home. so we'll see. i'll try to talk a few people into staying around with me.

>> do that for us. ron mott, thank you again, my friend. you can watch the olympics closing ceremony on nbc tonight 8:00 p.m. eastern. next, we return to presidential politics looking at how the trump campaign has already changed since last week's shakeup. plus, the impact third party candidates are having on the race. my conversation with libertarian nominee gary johnson. >> a wasted vote is voting for somebody you don't believe in. that's a wasted vote. ♪ ♪ isaac hou has mastered gravity defying moves to amaze his audience. great show. here you go. now he's added a new routine. making depositing a check seem so effortless. easy to use chase technology, for whatever you're trying to master. isaac, are you ready? yeah. chase. so you can. but my back pain was making it hard to sleep

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i feel the biggest takeaway of my week here has been with you. >> how so? >> i don't know, man, this has been a treat. this has been so much fun. i feel like i learned journalism through you. >> that's great. do you want to say something to the crowd? say something. >> i love chris matthews!

thanks for staying with us. i'm richard lui at msnbc headquarters in new york city. here's what we're watching this hour. a wildfire in central california is threatening the historic hearst castle. communities near that landmark in san luis obispo has been ordered to evacuate as a wildfire has grown to more than 24,000 acres. louisiana governor john bell edwards now says donald trump's visit last week to the flood zone was helpful after initially saying he was concerned it could turn into a mere photo op.

president obama heads there on tuesday. fema saying more than 100,000 individuals and families have applied for assistance so far. the pivot. there have been many for donald trump. the latest, the largest so far. some of the reviews have been positive. >> i think he's had a great week. i think he's been on message. he's shown maturity as a candidate. i think that he's getting into a groove. >> this is the best week, i think, so far in the trump campaign. mostly because he's able to be himself, the authentic donald trump. >> trump campaign senior advisor boris epstein joins us to talk about what's happened in the last few days. boris, have you had conversations with kellyanne conway as well as bannon who's from breitbart news? >> yes, of course. we're all in close touch. >> so what was that conversation like in the leadup? because you were actually there before they officially got the title as senior advisor. what was the conversations like that you had? >> you know, the campaign is all about the candidate, right? we've talked about this

throughout the campaign, it's all about the candidate and having the candidate be comfortable, having him be happy, having be absolutely focused on winning and that's what we have in donald trump. >> what were they saying? what was kellyanne saying to you about this move that was made in the last four days. >> it's finally about the discussion of us and staffers. what it's about is the message that's being delivered to the american people and that message is being delivered by donald trump. he is absolutely the face, head, whatever you call it of this campaign. he is the reason we're all here, right? we're not here for ourselves or any one particular staffer. we're here for donald trump because we as his team firmly believe that he's the person to lead this country. >> and talk about the team. before the headlines and the reports that we were getting from the trump campaign that it was discussion with ivanka trump or discussions with jared kirs ner. has the campaign moved a way from that phase, if you will? >> the family has played a very

important part. >> so how is that balancing out if you will the new leadership? >> well, first of all, remember kellyanne conway's been a part of this campaign for a long time now. she was senior advisor before becoming campaign manager. she's known the family for a very long time. steve bannon has been very successful in business and media. it's being balanced absolutely fine because all the folks you have mentioned, eric, don jr., other people on the team, they're all leaders. these are all successful people who are agile leaders, agile business people who know how to work together when you see a strong team. >> you saw the numbers that came out on saturday this from the federal filings. and that shows that the head count, the paid head count in the trump campaign is around 82. when you look at the clinton campaign, there are over 700. 703, so about a tenth the size. most of the investments being made with advisors, consultants. how is that working out? >> it's working out great. it's proof that the clinton campaign just like the clinton presidency was and hillary clinton presidency would be is

inefficient. they're inefficient. >> how are they inefficient? they're ahead in the swing state. the polls are widening. >> they're not widening though. >> it seems like the numbers are indicative of the head count in the team that's been put together. >> the polls are not widening, they're tightening. >> have you looked in pennsylvania? >> absolutely. in ohio polls are tightening. >> which polls are you looking at the? >> the pugh poll nationally -- >> we're talking about double digits, north carolina going into nine points, could go to double digits. >> north carolina is an important state and a state i'm absolutely confident we'll win november 8th. >> oh, come on. >> but florida, ohio, pennsylvania, we'll be fine as well. but again, nationally, if you look at the national poll, new poll out today "los angeles times" tracking poll trump is up two points. >> that's different than swing states. >> but it's still important, the nashlg po national polls are important, the pugh poll, we can talk polls until we're blue in the face. me and you.

the bottom line over the next 77, 78 days, what are the american people going to hear, what are they going to choose, are they going to choose somebody a lifelong failure in hillary clinton or -- >> quickly, how do you think the new leadership is going to be good for the first debate? we're seeing a little bit of a move here in terms of messaging and reading off prompter. >> donald trump is a very strong debater. he showed that throughout the primary against 16 extremely qualified governors, senators, extremely qualified candidates. so he will do great in that debate against hillary clinton. hillary clinton didn't have to have much of a challenge in her debates. she had a 74-year-old socialist facing off against her. i'm very confident donald trump will absolutely destroy hillary clinton in the debates. >> if he can get past as many say the one-liner. thank you so much. i appreciate that senior advisor to the trump campaign. changing demographics in florida could impact donald trump's fortunes come november. the number of puerto ricans in florida doubled since 2000.

as many as 1,000 families arrive each and every month. and at a campaign rally in florida earlier this month, clinton made a direct appeal to puerto ricans to pack up and move mainland. >> if you live in puerto rico, you can't vote for your president and commander in chief, right? but as an american citizen if you move to florida or new york, you can vote for the president and commander in chief. >> radio host ferdinand joins me from miami. this is something you see on your doorstep. i was there about a month ago doing a get out the vote story and the number of individuals i spoke with definitely fits within this schematic, puer puerto ricans moving to miami or the florida area, and then registering to vote. how big a deal is this? >> richard, it's a huge deal because what it's allowed the democrats to do really since the 2000 election, george w. bush

was supposed to comfortably win florida, and the reason the whole recount madness happened because in the waning days they didn't anticipate a surge that helped al gore. that fast forward to 2008, 2012, the democrats are able to pick the republican lock on florida, but particularly this exploding puerto rican vote. i think it's poised once again to make a huge difference in 2016 when there's now half a million puerto rican voters in the state of florida alone, richard. >> how are they being not enticed but encouraged to bring them to the mainland here? is it because of the election to vote directly in the election in november? >> no, more than anything else it's jobs, the puerto rico economy has crumbled given the threat of bankruptcy. also the thriving puerto rican community thriving in the central florida area. many are coming because it's a

great place to raise families, find jobs and service a lot of the theme parks in the area. and what they're seeing is the political power that comes with this new rising community. they have now puerto rican elected officials. cognizant of that political power, they are arguably the most important voters in the country because they can swing florida, they can swing the white house. >> and that is very well said and often said here, fernand. looking at this pivot i was discussing with boris epstein, a surrogate for the trump campaign, that is this idea he's reaching out to african-american voters, minority voters. do you see any halo effect that might come into this into the latino american community that up-to-date hasn't been good for that candidate? >> boy, that's a tough question because something like 85% of hispanics see donald trump as a racist. so i haven't seen much in the way of inroads here in puerto rico voters in florida. i suppose there's still time,

but right now donald trump is just not a candidate they're enthused about in any way, shape or form. and he's up against the eight ball with this because as i said earlier if puerto rico voters vote like they did in '08 and in '12 as they're going to do in '16, looks like hillary clinton's going to carry florida and that means lights out for the trump campaign. >> 66% according to a recent poll for hillary clinton when we do look at recent numbers. fernand, we could talk all afternoon about such topics. i appreciate you stopping by on a sunday. >> thanks, richard. next, a presidential love story. we'll talk to the filmmaker who turned barack and michelle obama's first date into a movie. don't let dust and allergens get between you and life's beautiful moments. by choosing flonase, you're choosing more complete allergy relief and all the enjoyment that comes along with it. when we breathe in allergens, our bodies react by overproducing 6 key inflammatory substances. most allergy pills only control 1. flonase controls 6. and six is greater than one. with flonase,

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it shows. >> he showed his cultural side. and then we took a nice long walk. >> got a little romantic. >> down michigan avenue. and did we go to the movie first? >> well, we had -- we didn't have dinner. we actually had lunch. >> oh, we had lunch. >> at the art institute. a little courtyard with a fountain. >> yeah, it was nice. >> yeah, it was very nice. >> the president and first lady there recounting their very first date on the south side of chicago. as the obamas get ready to leave the white house and historians begin to write about their legacy, how they met included, plenty of time to reflect on how this 27-year journey all started with that first date that they were talking about. now a new movie called "south side with you" tells the story of that summer day in chicago. it was produced by musician john legend and written by filmmaker richard tenny. the romantic comedy about the obamas was selected to this year's sundance film festival. now it opens in theaters nationwide this friday. here's a little bit. >> he invited me to a community

event. >> so what's this boy's name? >> barack obama. >> barack o who the? ♪ >> hi. >> hello. >> you're late. >> i was hoping you wouldn't notice. >> i expected it. you were late for your first day of work. >> i noticed that too. >> i'm your advisor, i'm supposed to notice. shouldn't we be getting to the meeting? >> we have some time. i thought we'd swing by the art center, see some paintings, grab a bite to eat. >> this is not a date. >> do you think i'm cute? >> i didn't say that. >> joining me now is the movie's writer and director richard tenny. where do you want to start on this? what is this story about? >> the story is about love. it's about two people connecting over the course of a single day. >> and as you were deciding whether to do this story, why did you select it? >> well, i mean, at first in 2007 when the obamas rose to national prominence, i was just taken by them as a couple the

way they look into each other's eyes, the way they flirt. it felt like a real authentic kind of love. >> not everybody would say that they see that when they see the two of them together that this love and this flirting that you're talking about. what is it you saw that others did not? why were you able to identify this? >> well, i don't think i'm alone in feeling that way. certainly from a lot of people i've spoken to and just the way the movie's been received, you know, there's definitely a feeling that there's something special between the obamas. >> now, you put this movie together in, what, three years you took to write the script, 17 days to shoot it. this does not sound easy. >> yeah, i mean, there were a lot of obstacles to overcome, but that's the case when you make any movie. movies are just hard to make, hard to get financed. i had the idea in 2007. i didn't get about to writing it until 2013. and now three years later we're finally releasing it. >> she was his advisor, as we saw, right? >> right. >> in the clip we just mentioned. there's a lot of interesting lines just in what we showed

there. tell us about the several layers that were the most challenging for you to really articulate in the movie? that is one of them. >> yeah, well, i think the challenge for me as the writer and then the director was, you know, this is a movie about real people, but we don't know what they actually said on the date. so my job was to do as much homework and research as possible. and then extrapolate from there and imagine what might have connected them, what did they clash over, what brought them together. things like that. >> and i want to bring this up. there's one more clip here and the two actors here that play michelle and barack obama, it's a scene where they're just done finish watching a movie and they bump into some of their fellow co-workers, partners at their firm. let's play that. >> i never would have considered that perspective, barack. that's why we need a guy like you full time. michelle, make sure to treat him real good. we want him sticking around. we'll see you both monday. >> good night. >> good night.

>> good night. >> you know only said to make avery feel better. >> so you're hitting on it appears this issue here of gender equality and she's going, hang on a second, why would i need to take care of him? >> well, you know, michelle was and is a strong woman, an independent person. and the way i approached the character in this movie was she wasn't going to let herself be overshadowed by this hot shot that was coming in. she was her own person. and so there were reservations about going out on the date. so i wanted to sort of highlight the gender politics that could have existed. one of the great things about this was i got to step outside of myself and put myself -- >> and talk about race. you're not african-american. >> i'm not. again, that was a great privilege to be able to sort of put myself in someone else's shoes and embrace the racial nuances, the cultural nuances. >> gender. >> gender nuances. that was a scene they've just gone to see spike lee's "do the

right thing," which was very controversial at the time and to this day is seen and perceive d differently by blacks and whites. >> that well storied date now taken to the big screen. thank you so much, richard, appreciate it. next, my conversation with libertarian presidential nominee gary johnson. his vision for america, plus a look at how his candidacy could affect the outcome of the election. houston: mission allergy escape. for those who've gone to extremes to escape their unrelenting nasal allergy symptoms... houston: news alert... new from the makers of claritin, clarispray. ♪ welcome back. clarispray is a nasal allergy spray that contains the #1 prescribed, clinically proven ingredient. nothing is more effective at relieving your sneezing, runny nose and nasal congestion. return to the world with new clarispray.

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thanks for staying with us. this election there are two third-party candidates who are getting more attention now. we showed you earlier today my interview with green party nominee dr. jill stein. next up, the former governor of new mexico, gary johnson. he has 11% support in our latest nbc poll and is closing in on the magical 15% needed to make it to the debates. i sat down with johnson a week ago at the coliseum at cesar's

palace in nevada at the 2016 presidential election forum held by the asian american journalism association. i started by asking him to describe what being a libertarian means. >> what kind of animal is that? well, fiscally conservative. in our case socially liberal. what we libertarians like to say is it doesn't matter what you are socially as long as you don't force it on other people. meaning always come down on the side of choice, allowing people to make choices in their own lives as long as those choices don't adversely effect others. all of you recognize that this is probably the craziest election of all-time and space, right? and how crazy is it? i might be the next president of the united states, okay? okay. when we involve ourselves in regime change, when our military -- when we use our military to intervene, i think

it has had the unintended consequence of making things worse, not better. and we do have a real terrorist threat out there. we should have an impenetrable, invincible national defense, but i stress the word defense. >> will this be a wasted vote? you've heard this many atime. why is it not a wasted vote? >> well, a wasted vote is voting for somebody you don't believe in. that's a wasted vote. vote for the person you believe in. that's how you bring about change. and, you know, i hope after having made my pitch today that you'll realize that if you want to waste your vote on clinton or trump, i mean, have at it. secretary clinton, is there anything you haven't promised to anyone? >> do you embrace a wall between the united states and mexico? >> a wall between the united states and mexico is crazy. i don't want to break up families. i don't want to be deporting. don't get the government involved in quotas.

i do support tpp. is it a perfect document? no. the reality is is that free trade is the opposite of crony capitalism. no new taxes. we should be open to a discussion on how you keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill. and we should be open to a discussion on how you keep guns out of the hands of a would-be terrorist. it's just that right now these watch lists actually have active members of congress on these watch lists. >> oh, like who? >> i couldn't name you -- i'm speaking secondhand. >> we are safer, we mitigate the horrible headlines of orlando, of san bernardino when we have citizenry that are armed that can, if you will, the good people help to fight the bad people, agree or disagree? >> oh, i don't know. mixed on that. but if you're one of those good guys, if you yourself are one of those good guys and that's something you choose to do, i'm back to choice now, that's a

decision that you've made. i don't know it's a decision i would make to arm myself and be that good guy. >> last time you fired a gun? >> oh, gosh, a year ago. >> how many guns do you have? >> i have a pistol, a .38 pistol, and i have a 12-gauge shotgun. >> when is the last time that you did take marijuana? >> last time i took marijuana was about three months ago. and i know your next question is going to be specific, so it was some chiba chews. >> how was it? >> it was pleasant. >> it was a ten. >> very pleasant. >> when you think about education, and you have a very clear perspective on this, we don't need the department of education. >> we don't. give education back to the states. give a lot of these functions that the federal government does back to the state. >> what's a solution then to common core but in a local way? >> we need to blow the lid off

of competition when it comes to public education. i think if we unleashed tens of -- hundreds of thousands of educational entrepreneurs to deliver better products, better services at lower price -- >> what is aapi mean? >> asian pacific island of america. >> you're really close. asian american and pacific islanders. i happen to be a little of both. so when i ask this question of you, how important is that swing vote? >> more importantly is i hope to in my later years retire to one of those islands. >> so not a home run, but for more on the independent candidate's chances, let's bring back cathelyn and hari. let's start with you. when you look at key questions about america, about the policy and the issues that we have, you

might say they sound like candidates that we might be used to hearing from other spaces like the republican party itself. how real is johnson? how real is stein? spoilers or real potential candidates here that might win? >> i think there could be the potential here given how unfavorable the two main candidates are. i've talked to a lot of republicans who say if weld was on top of the ticket instead of johnson, they might be more inclined. but because it's johnson leading the ticket, it's harder to get there for a variety of reasons. >> interesting. >> we've seen in polls too they just haven't gotten that far ahead yet. i mean, they're not at this point eligible for the debate stage to make a real -- >> o'brien, agree with that? do you think it was the johnson situation? >> they haven't got that far ahead. they haven't got out of single digits at this point. they have no impact -- >> actually, just show double. >> they just snuck up there. okay, he just cracked it for the first time. but the reality is they're not on debate stage, i don't see him

legitimate, i don't see him picking up one electoral vote at all. where i think they have an impact on hillary's talking point she will not break 50% if those numbers hold. >> i'm going to hari on this. latest nbc poll shows clinton with a nine-point lead, but when we include stein and johnson, her lead goes to six percentage points. as a strategist, hari, should the clinton camp be somewhat concerned about what these other two candidates might mean to the very close lead that she has in some places? >> yeah, well, i think that's the advantage the clinton campaign has. they have a lot of ways to get to 270. they need to pay attention to these folks in close states. those close states doesn't mean if they lose those states because a third party candidate is picking up those votes, they have a lot of ways to get there. which is not what the trump campaign has going for them. one name you haven't mentioned is ed mcmullen who is a republican running who's made the ballot in utah and iowa.

he's a mormon and has -- and donald trump has alienated the mormon community. that's six electoral votes that could swing to hillary clinton if mcmullen picks up enough votes out there. >> katelyn, as you look at stein, what she said during that very same event was after bernie sanders stepped away and hillary clinton became the nominee, her fund raising went up by some 100%. >> that's interesting. but i do think that we haven't seen her influence take hold in these polls even with the presence of stein. i also think during the democratic convention did have the coalescing of the democratic party around hillary clinton. so she's hoping to pick away those sanders supporters, not quite sure that's viable. >> 100% increase in your fund raising means you went from $100,000 to $200,000. i don't see where it's relevant for tv. >> some might be saying that of

donald trump and his -- >> two-thirds of the voters think we're on the wrong track no matter who the candidates are. you have the numbers real clear politics. if that's the case right now and you have somebody winning this race who doesn't break 50%, and then you have the house and senate split on who controls those too, you have to make sure whoever gets in there can bring people together and unify. and that's going to be the test now for the next 79 days. >> hari, 30 seconds to you here. are we seeing more talk about third party candidates than we've seen in previous cycles? >> i don't think so. every year -- or every presidential campaign there's some talk of a third party candidate. sure there's, you know, these candidates that we have on top of the tickets are a little bit more disliked, but i don't think it's unusual. >> okay, hari is nonplussed about that. thank you so much. y'all have a good sunday. thanks for being my friends today. that's all for this hour of "msnbc live." we'll have updates of course for you right here throughout the

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