that's exactly two weeks ago that donald trump told that lie. that his wife would have a press conference one in a hundred. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews. donald trump is making news on several fronts tonight. he called far special prosecutor to look into hillary clinton's actions. he said the justice department couldn't be trusted because it is a political arm of the white house. he says he will prioritize by first getting bad people out of the country. he continue today pitch his candidacy.

let's watch trump earlier tonight. >> our government has totally failed our african american friends, our hispanic friends and the people of our country, period. poverty, rejection, horrible education, no housing, no homes, no ownership, crime at levels nobody has seen. you can go to war zones in countries we are fighting and it's safer than living in some of the inner city that is are run by the democrats. to the african americans, who i employee, so many, so many people. to the hispanics, tremendous people, what the hell do you have to lose? give me a chance. i'll straighten it out. sit a disaster the way african

americans are living in many cases. we'll bring jobs back. we'll get rid of the crime. you'll be able to walk down the street without getting shot. right now you walk down the street you get shot. >> and there is donald trump addressing what looks to be the d.a.r. hillary clinton said it could not be clear how much african americans have to lose under donald trump. she doubling down on insults, fear. trump has the support of one african american voter out of 100, 1%. who is he really pitching to? who is his audience. jonathan has a great book that will be replicated later. >> yes. it will have new stuff.

>> what do you think he is talking to? >> well, i think he is talking to the american public. i think he understands -- he is asking a question. 90% of the african american voters typically vote for democrats. i think it's fair for him to ask what is the return on the investment of trust. i think what we have to do now is for donald trump to put policy and strategy behind how he can do a better job. >> how do you like his language? >> i am not comfortable with his language. the fact that all african americans live in poverty, i'm not liking it at all. i'm excited he is speaking to the african american voters but i think -- >> why is it so off kilter?

why doesn't he go to african american community to make the pitch? >> i think he will go to african american communities but i think black people hear him. we are talking about it. it is important for him to go into the black community to make this pitch. >> what do you have to lose? you think that's a strong point? >> i think it's what others have asked as well, about african americans voting 90% without fail, giving that percentage without any attempt to think about other candidates. >> you're from pennsylvania. i grew up very close. i have the feeling he is trying to tell people i'm not a racially bad guy. i'm not into racial prejudice. kellyanne -- >> i think it also comes from

temperature to of the party, people from capitol hill. they think he need to make it a normal experience to vote for donald trump in philadelphia, north carolina and ohio. you can't go to a summer barbecue and it seem like supporting donald trump -- >> it's the conversations that go on everywhere. they talk about this stuff, who are you voting for? you going to vote for trump? they want to be the person to actually say that without getting jumped on. >> your average moderate reporter in franklin county, ohio, they don't want to think about themselves that way. if they can feel comfortable feeling like he is not a biggot they will do it. he is still just trying to bring together that basic republican.

>> time will tell whether he is going to launch his appeal to the black community in the black community. donald trump called for a special prosecutor as secretary of state. here he goes. >> no issue better illustrates how corrupt my opponent is than her pay for play scandals than secretary of state. i have become increasingly shocked by the vast scope of hillary clinton's criminality. the favor is done and the significant number of times it was done require an expedited investigation by a special prosecutor immediately, immediately, immediately. the justice department is required to appoint an independent special prosecutor.

it has proven itself to be really sadly a political arm of the white house. >> the first question is what would be the indictment? what would be the basis for the investigation? what's the smoke? >> the smoke is e-mails that have come out where people of the clinton foundation were communicating saying i want to get a meeting for so and so or i would like to get this guy's resume. the supreme court just ruled that having a meeting with somebody is not in and of itself good pro quo. getting a meeting for somebody isn't a problem. that's not how the supreme court sees it.

i think we'll have to see more before we see evidence of any criminal behavior. by the way, so far as we know, no prosecutor is working on that right now. >> the word scandal gets thrown around a lot. you can't just say because somebody throws a pie in somebody's face there's a scandal going on? what is the scandal? for what would you say? you got a special prosecutor in the state department or through congress? i don't know how you do it. >> i think they just appoint one. >> i think people are uncomfortable with the fact that hillary clinton is not being transparent. she keeps talking about being transparent. this drip, drip, drip of e-mails. >> the fbi will release them some time in mid-october. >> exactly. and she hasn't had a press conference since december. what does that have to do with a special prosecutor? >> you bring a special prosecutor because -- >> we are talking about the lack of transparency and her trustworthy numbers.

she will be a much stronger candidate if she were able to answer these questions about these e-mails. maybe it's a press conference. >> we think alike. >> she needs to answer questions. >> that's up to the voter, not up to the special prosecutor. i think you need a body of a crime. you have to know there's a crime committed to know who did it. >> i have seen a lot of fingerprints of this new chief executive, steven bannon. he went after the clinton foundation. you saw focus tonight going after the clintons call for the special prosecutor. kellyanne conway, but bannon, you're seeing it unfold. >> he goes to these rallies. he thinks it is reality.

he still has access. he is basically on a one network campaign right now isn't he? >> i heard he is going to try to show in terms of access and talking to reports and he will keep hammering in the press conferences that are supposedly in the works. >> do you find him accessible? >> i think trump has been relatively accessible. i wish he would open up his events to the washington post. in terms of -- >> your newspaper? >> it's a great newspaper. i think in terms of his frequency. >> i find them both hard to get to. they are very hard for someone like me to get on the air. i had trump hasn't been back yet. >> you made news, chris. >> yes, but the answers were more interesting than the questions. why doesn't hillary hold press conferences? >> because she is sitting on a big lead.

she doesn't need to get out there to get more muchblt the things candidates normally need, she doesn't need. if you saw her behind or slipping in the polls you would see her on television all of the time. >> isn't there a risk of an empty mandate because he didn't talk? nixon did that in '68. a clever campaign that looked like a campaign but nobody got access to the candidate. >> hillary clinton laid out an agenda. it is probably the thickest campaign agenda in modern presidential history. >> who has more hawkage? nixon or clinton? >> we don't know yet. >> i think the downside is the questions she will be asked and her inability to answer them

without being truthful. any slip, you know, is a 24 hour news cycle playing it over and over again. >> and that's a press conference. >> and trump's campaign manager said it was still to be determined whether trump could call for deportation. this morning, by the way, he said he was working on deporting the immigrants. tonight he told bill o'reilly he would follow the law. >> the first thing we are going to do if and when i win is we will get rid of all of the bad ones. we will have gang members and killers that have to get out of the country. as far as everybody else, we are going to go through the process. >> the actual seizure of human beings, taking them from their homes and putting them in a detention center so that their

illegal alien challenge -- >> you don't have to put them in a detention center. you're the first one to mention detention center. >> eisenhower deported -- >> he took them out. when you sited him as an example of someone -- >> no. i said that it's something that has been done in a very strong manner. i'm not talking about detention centers. >> i don't know what he is talking about. what's he doing? the fact is because of the law enforcement such as this not being real over the years, every since '86 and everyone that has come illegally nothing that the laws weren't enforced, no attempt to stop illegal hiring. we have an abundance of people who in most cases have become americans. so what do you do?

he says we have sent them all back as if they never raised kids here. we'll act like none of that happened. it is not going to happen. >> it's not sane, to think you're going to mass deport 11 or 12 or 13 million people is not going to happen. i think it's one of the reasons you're seeing trump softening. >> maybe we should deport the u.s. members of congress that have done nothing like this, allowed the immigration to go on. there's a lot of people to blame for this situation. we talk about whether or not trump is softening or not. it is influenced by jeff sessions, the speech writers are still steven miller -- >> anti-illegal or illegal? >> anti-illegal. >> okay. these three are sticking with us

tonight. coming up we are going bare fisted boxing. rudy giuliani, is it on behalf of trump or some old purpose of this? he is going after her health. she has no apparent health problems. he says she does. why is he doing that? this is "hardball," the place for politics.

hillary clinton holds a 4 point lead in ohio. gary johnson creeping up at 10 and could make it to 15. in the race for u.s. senate

portman has an 8 point lead over ted strictland. it is strictland down at 40. we'll be right back.

>> i think hillary is tired. when i saw hillary sitting down with a democratic appointed police chief is one of the most pathetic. first of all, she looked sick. >> we got the message there from rudy giuliani. that was this morning outside fox headquarters going after hillary clinton and her health. it is the new line of attack and their surrogates. here is the mayor on sunday. >> she has an entire media empire that constantly demonizes

donald trump and fails to point out she hasn't had a press conference in 200, 300 days, i don't know how long. fails to point out several signs of illness by her. all you have to do is go online. >> her people are saying there is nothing fact chul to the claims about her health. >> go online. >> that's speculation at best. >> go online and take a look at the videos for yourself. >> go online. he is finally running the race against hillary clinton. he has wanted to. they say the former new york city mayor who nearly ran against clinton has emerged as one of trump's most -- today giuliani and trump are turning

an already royaling campaign into a street brawl and keeping with their city's political positions. robert, dena and jonathan is here. that is really exciting. a lot of words in there. >> yes. >> seriously, are you channelling somebody else? how do you know rudy is fighting an old battle? how do you know he couldn't go head to head. so 16 years later she going back at her. is it personal as they say in boxing? >> 16 years ago we were calling around rudy's friends and they were saying he wanted to run in '99 and backed i way, became america's mayor and decided to run for president in '07 and doesn't get it, doesn't work

out, fizzles out in florida, as we all know. >> what is this health thing? >> i don't know. >> honestly, have you read any basis for it? >> i have not. i think we do need to know the health of our candidates. >> why are they claiming there is a health problem? >> i don't know. if they look healthy and there's no reason based on any reports over the last 15 years. >> trump has been talking about hillary as a low energy candidate. these are things, he talked about those things in the primary as well. >> yeah. he is saying it's clinical now. it's a medical condition they are talking about. we have been through this before with politics. they did this and he had to see a shrink and blah, blah, blah. >> clearly it's the health they are going after. it is the legal problems.

first it was benghazi. >> there are legitimate -- >> well, let me try this. how does she win the health thing? >> i think she continue to point out he is making an allegation he can't prove. that's how she'll win that. >> beat him in the debate. beat him like a drum. >> beat him in the campaign. my hope is they will focus on legitimate issues. hillary clinton is a flawed candidate. >> what is her flaw? >> people simply do not trust her. she still hasn't earned our trust. >> to finish it, is rudy out to

get hillary for some weird reason? >> he always wanted a battle against her. new york, national spotlight, he envisioned a race in '99 and 2008. >> and the reason hillary is a senator is because they brought her in to beat rudy. thank you robert and dena. you're a loyalist. i'm not sure what cause but you're a loyalist. you're definitely a conservative. does conservative include trump now? >> it means hillary clinton should not be president of the united states. >> a nice positive view. >> thank you.

up next, dick, we'll get his take on this unforgettable presentation. there he s. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

every time i have had someone on the show who is in politics there is one question i can't wait to ask. i'm not picking on you, do you have any kind of announcement you would like to make here today? it is always fun to get in the news. >> no. the only announcement i have is lord willing i will continue to be governor until 1974. >> welcome back. that is ronald reagan back in 1974, five years before he challenged gerald ford for president. no one has had a more storied career than dick. he started out and broke out as

the own host of his show. he tries to find out what makes people tick. there he is with ali winning that fight. two great new yorkers. hillary clinton against donald trump you can watch all of his show on vintage tv. >> you're the only television that gets better every day. >> keep it up. you charm me to death. >> let me ask you, you got trump, i have had to ask him a few questions. what would you ask him right now? would you have a question for him? >> yes, how soon can you get out of sight forever? that's not controversial is it? i don't think.

>> i got a bunch of questions for you. why is trump saying this election is rigged? >> yeah, that's a dumb thing to say. if he is elected he was the product of a rigged election and what's the honor in that? >> why is he saying hillary is sick? >> probably because of rejection in psychology. this certainly fragile man takes the old tack to say you're the one who is sick. you mentioned jack and johnnie. >> yeah. >> i wrote a column in my new york times post. it was the unfunny marks brother. they wanted to take this line out. trump is in the white house, the arab world blows up. the entire area of the world explodes, wouldn't you want a china? >> how would you like if you called him zippo?

>> yeah. remember that one? it didn't last too long after that one. let me ask you about hillary clinton. if you were her corner guy, the guy in the corner, the guy who has a towel over his shoulder, he is in the corner of the ring. she is in the 15 round right now, what would you say to her to say put your dukes up or would you say protect yourself? >> you know what i would say really, merle streep. i said give her a lesson how to speak in public without yelling but talk to go people. it would make a huge difference. melania, i feel sorry for her. >> you know what, politicians yell and hillary is the one

accused of yelling because she is what? >> i don't know. none of them listened to godfrey. >> did you do that all of the years -- i don't do it because i some times, i know i'm suppose today think about one person but i'm told you're supposed to talk into the microphone as if you were talking to someone 6 inches from your face, that they were really close to you. >> your grandmother and mine knew that arthur godfrey, when he said all of you that he was talking to her alone. i want to make a point about melania. >> who is this guy? >> arthur godfrey.

you're too young. >> he brought his airplane down too close to the tower. >> you're not as old as you look. is there any truth to the rumor after she said i wrote this speech through my own words that the original draft began four score and seven years ago? >> i know. this democratic national committee, she was the one that wrote the speech last time around. this is the ultimate speech writer who can write both sides of the political debate, both people. >> if anybody misses a speech melania will do it for you. >> we have a lunch prepared. we'll have it with you as soon as you can make it possible. >> and he said he last saw you at the gore convention and just

an hour ago he said trump is going among black people to find out how the other 1% lives. >> i remember him. he gets a black board and explains the political map of the united states and he had everybody where they stood and bobby kennedy doing a float back and forth. he is amazing. >> yes. >> you remember what he said about nixon? >> what? >> he said if you fell in water 20 foot from shore he would throw you a 10 foot rope and announce the president met you half way. >> thank you dick cavett. up next, the blame game, collin powell doesn't want to be the fall guy for hillary clinton. you're watching "hardball," a place for politics.

welcome back. the blame for hillary clinton's use of private e-mail continues. secretary clinton began using a personal e-mail server and personal e-mail account. from the beginning of her service she used a private server and private e-mail. we have to get facts on the table. according to a brand new book early in her term attended a dinner by madelynn. towards the end of evening over desert albright asked all of the former secretary to offer salient bit of council. powell told her to use her own e-mail.

according to albright i guess she is the source, i don't know. joe wrote this account at her house. on friday powell's office told nbc he did write former secretary clinton a memo describing the use of his personal aol account for unclassified messages. on saturday night at a party in the hamptons he said her people have been try to go pin it on me. the truth is she was yooging the private e-mail server for a year before i told her what i did. jason johnson here and michael, a former senior adviser of jeb bush. so what do we make of this? i'm trying to put them all together. hillary clinton we know is a

factor. i have been using this since i became secretary of state. there is this party she was at apparently. albright asked for everyone to give advice and powell comes out on saturday night and tells people magazine that was a year later. so what do we think of this? >> well, many things -- >> is this a fact argument? >> here are the facts. she was already using the server -- >> what about where she was next secretary of state. it means she has hasn't taken of yet. >> she was doing it from the beginning. >> so if you trust powell and you believe powell is right about the e-mail you can't

believe hillary clinton when she blames her decision on his decision earlier! right and it's important to note what she did and what he did are different. he use add private e-mail account for communications and state department for classified communication. at that point there were not e-mail rules in place. >> we don't have to get to that distinction. >> and that's what i think. >> that's where the blame game comes in. if she did it on her own because she wanted to do it, she and bill and whoever decided it, why is she blaming it on collin powell? >> because it is easy and convenient. powell is like i'm not involved in this. >> usually if you're going to blame it on somebody else you figure they will go along with it.

>> they trying to rent the credibility of a distinguished public service, a states man as a talking point to explain this away. powell wasn't looking for fight. he is going to a party on a saturday night and somebody who is snapping pictures on the red carpet asked him about it. his response is no, i'm not responsible about this. he called them on it. >> why is this story, which is difficulty getting sited about. everybody says scandal, scandal, scandal. we flow what happened. it has been digested by every american. hillary shows a secret method of doing phone calls. it is at some risk to being hijacked by somebody. she apologized for it. where do we go from that? isn't that the end of it? >> the problem she keeps running into, she has apologized for it. instead of taking responsibility for it they keep trying to have

other people vouch for her. she also try today suggest that comey would vouch for her. when she suggested that he said everything she said was truthful, which is not what he said. if she would take responsibility and say what i did was different than any other secretary of state did that would be one thing. when she tries to rope other people in -- >> you know, after nixon was caught taping like all of the great liberals, kennedy taped over and over again and johnson repped tape. so this kind of phoneyness, i would never do that. i will still share some of the guilt. >> and the clintons are so

defensive about things. it's the cover-up. it's not admitting responsibility. what she should say is look, i did this. it may have been a mistake. did it cost anybody anything? what's the big deal? i think the reason it hasn't caught fire with a lot of voters is no one has been able to make a connection between her use of e-mail servers and somebody to endanger ter american people. >> i know why she doesn't do this, because they will think of something doechlts they will find something else. it keeps growing at least the transcripts. >> it is evidence of an error in judge. if you're ready to be commander in chief in the area of national security it will not go away. >> and did anybody ever go to the former secretary of state,

hillary clinton and say to her, you're not supposed to use the private e-mail servers? did anyone ever have such a conversation? >> if they didn't it's certainly a problem. >> if they didn't, how come that never happened? >> there are people who suggested it may not have been a good idea. we don't have anything on paper where they are like here is a new memo and here is the rule. >> and at some point there should be some information delivered to the secretary of state. if that ever happened that person should say i told her not to do it. >> buried in her 33,000 e-mails there was one e-mail where a staffer suggested she might want to have a state department e-mail address. it wasn't saying you need do this. it was a suggestion. >> much more ahead with the round table. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

which you are you? be the you who doesn't cover your moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. be the you who shows up in that dress. who hugs a friend. who is done with treatments that don't give you clearer skin. be the you who controls your psoriasis with stelara® just 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses. stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. some serious infections require hospitalization. before treatment, get tested for tuberculosis. before starting stelara® tell your doctor if you think you have an infection or have symptoms such as: fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough. always tell your doctor if you have any signs of infection, have had cancer, if you develop any new skin growths or if anyone in your house needs or has recently received a vaccine. alert your doctor of new or worsening problems, including headaches, seizures, confusion and vision problems these may be signs of a rare, potentially fatal brain condition. some serious allergic reactions can occur. do not take stelara® if you are allergic to stelara® or any of its ingredients. most people using stelara® saw 75% clearer skin and the majority were rated as cleared or minimal at 12 weeks. be the you who talks to your dermatologist about stelara®.

follow us on twitter and facebook and you can get behind the scene photos as we cover this presidential campaign of 2016. we'll be right back.

i think i would be

distraught if we didn't have facetime! you do that a lot? >> all of the time. >> have you considered using facetime instead of e-mail? >> a little joke there about e-mail. welcome back to "hardball." that was tonight on the jimmy kimmel show. we are back now. what do you think about the late flight stuff? >> it can't hurt at this point. >> did you think that was original and novel? >> she looked like she was really laughing, right? >> you think she knew the shot ton e-mail was coming? >> he asked hbt her health and he offered to let him take her pulse. he opened a jar of pickles. >> and he released this ad and also asked about rumors tonight. so to prove her strength kimmel

asked her to do this. this is the husband and wife thing with the pickle jar. >> can you open this jar of pickles? it has not been tampered with. this is -- >> oh, she did it. >> did she open it? >> yes. >> good for her. where is bill clinton? this is the husband/wife thing. she did say this is your job, move the furniture and open the jars. >> i'm waiting to see it was a preopened jar. >> it was skewed. >> an easy pickle jar. some of those things you're never going to do it and it works. this hillary thing, the healthy, i think it's cheap shot stuff. is it to work her into her saying something stupid? health is vital to us all and

people have health problems. why make a joke about a health problem? when they have a health problem they are dead serious, cancer, heart disease, all kinds of problems people die of. there are all kinds of medical conditions, all of these sorts and then to joke and have rudy giuliani say just look online. look online, is that where the truth is? you can get the nuttiest stuff online. >> and if you look online giuliani says google hillary clinton illness. you get rudy giuliani results. >> when they put out the fact that he went to a sh ring and reagan says i don't want to talk about an invalid, they are playing a terrible game. when you only play a little attention you hear i hear she is sick.

that becomes something that some people believe and it's a lie. >> what kind of strength do you need to feel somebody is healthy? does she have to do push-ups with michelle obama? like you knew he was still working. >> he was past 30. his biological clock was slow moving. the round table is staying with us. up next they will tell me something i don't know. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.

we are calling it a special edition. tell me special something i don't know. >> the state most likely to flip in 2016. >> from 2012. >> yes. >> what is it? >> georgia. 1.5 new voters, 80% are new voter. >> what caused the uptake in registration? >> the new georgia project, the sort of voter i.d. laws that are coming out. the clinton campaign is spending serious service. they really think that. >> you know n 1960 which state voted most for john kennedy? georgia.

most. >> wow. >> and that's when blacks couldn't vote. >> right. >> and big donors will be hearing a lot from hillary clinton. the public and the press will not be. hillary clinton is still keeping press out of her fundraiser. >> what will be her next press conference? >> well, tvd. we asked and -- >> fundraisers are much more fun than press conferences. >> right. >> michael steele. >> we were talking -- >> you have a great broadcast voice. where did you get that? >> according to larry, george wallace got 3% of the african american vote in 1968. donald trump currently polling at 1 or 2%. he is less popular than the man who stood in the schoolhouse door. >> thank you. i love this kind of stuff. i don't like the news but i love

the way you got it. jason johnson, coleen and that's "hardball" for now. i'll see you back here tomorrow night. have a good night tonight. tonight on all in. >> i want our party to be the home of the african-american voter once again. >> the trump outreach continues. >> i was very moved by his comment. >> as the ap drops a bombshell racism and talk of religious war in staff's online post. tonight, what to make of the latest republican outreach. can trump etch-a-sketch on immigration? >> who is going to pay for the wall? >> why donald trump just delayed his big border speech.