white house press secretary josh earnest pushed back yesterday at criticism of the president for not visiting the state sooner. and on the campaign trail today, hillary clinton will spend another day fund-raising in following here on msnbc. now you're up to speed. that does it for us on this tuesday. thanks for being with me. "morning joe" starts right now. how do you prepare for debate with donald trump? >> i'm here to ask for your help. >> i might be able to fill in for him. ku prepare for a debate? >> you have to prepare. but i've watched a lot of his debates during the primaries.

he insulted all of his opponents. he insulted all of the moderators. he insulted i guess about 80% of the american people and the rest of the world. so how do you prepare for that? i think on the one hand it's a serious chance for americans to tune in and if they haven't made up their minds to try to make up their minds. i want to take it seriously. i want to talk about what we can do and how important it is. but you've got to be prepared for wacky stuff that comes at you. i am drawing on my experience in elementary school. >> all right. good morning. it's tuesday august 23rd. welcome to "morning joe" along with joe, willie and me. >> i think donny is wearing poplin this morning. he's wearing green shoes. >> no, they are black. >> they are green. >> get the shoe up, it's green. >> they are black.

>> the managing editor of bloomberg politics and co-host of with all due respect o msnbc. >> i was trying to be donny a&eesque today. >> apparently donny did "with all due respect." eddie black. >> before i get started, i'm checking my tweets. >> willie geist. we've got willie geist here. yesterday it was your lou gehring day. >> today, today today. >> yes. i announced yesterday i'll be stepping away from the "today" show, more time here, still sunday, still at the "today" show. i'm not going anywhere but like it or not, i'll be here more often. >> i don't understand. it was happy, this great sendoff. why did they escort you out like

your grandfather? all you had to do was walk across the street. ran like four times. >> didn't slow down, threw me out of the van. it was cruel. still here. >> six days a week you're working? >> better than seven. >> know your value, mika. >> i learned it from you, mika. >> god. should we move to news? a lot to cover. >> i want to know the etiquette, do we address the tweets, leave them hovering like turds, what do we do? >> we don't want to talk about your plumbing habits. >> donny, you got attacked last week. >> last night. it must have been a bad 12 hours for him. >> what did he say about you? >> he called me little donny d.

that was great. i responding calling him little donny t. it was 10:00 at night. it was strange. wouldn't you think our future president would be watching closing ceremonies of olympics. >> what did he say? >> commenting about stupid things he's saying. >> no provocation. >> the next morning he went after a particular morning show. he went after our mom here. >> sister. >> which was not cool. i guess he's kind of crumbling. i don't know. i just was wondering. now they have somebody next to him on the airplane to make sure he doesn't go off the rails. >> let's go. >> had that reset button right here. >> pivot button. >> it's over here,ic, isn't it? exactly. hey, we can just take that down.

>> okay. the news. >> actually, i think that's the big story actually. >> that's not the big story. >> no, no, no. i'm saying as far as this goes, other than helping me gain twitter followers. >> stop. >> the big story is that he was in the middle of what was supposed to be a reset and then just blew up. so what it does, in effect, is it proves all of his critics correct, he just -- >> didn't need proof, we all knew it would happen again and again and again. he can't control himself. he's not changing. everything he said can't be unsaid. let's move on. this the news, you think would be the news, i'm sure donald trump will figure out a way to make this not the news and lose the election. >> this is big news. he's doing to have work hard to get this off the front page. >> involving clinton foundation, e-mail access donors got to hillary clinton's top aides during her time as secretary of

state. the group, judicial watch, released 725 pages of e-mails involving the foundation and then secretary clinton's state department aides with 20 previously undisclosed changes that include clinton her self. among them are e-mails showing clinton's top aide uma abedin setting up a meeting with the prince of brain who gave $32 million to global initiative and receiving multiple requests from donors. >> of course, quickly right there, john heilemann, the important part of that story is you had the clinton foundation sending e-mails to huma. this is a friend of ours, you need to set up a meeting. huma said she's uncomfortable with it and went ahead and did

it anyway. >> i believe there's one exchange where she expresses discomfort and he says don't do it. she set up the meetings. i think the thing that makes people uncomfortable, whether favors were traded or not, the level of access, the way in which there was a big pipeline for big donors and friends of ours at the foundation had this kind of high-level access to her. these conduits existed that were previously supposedly not there. >> willie, i said a year or so when bob was about to put in jail, he got a rolex watch and they got a vitamin supplement stand in a room. here you have $32 million

exchanged for a meeting at the state department. that ain't nothing. it seems so massive in scale. >> the trump campaign yesterday, donald trump and mike pence both call it pay for play enterprise. to me the next step that happens, people give a ton of money to clinton foundation getting meetings with sitting secretary of state. that's not good. >> haven't we seen this movie before. >> at this at least you're buying access. >> you're buying access. >> the next step that has to be looked at, was official united states policy affected by somebody giving money. if so, then you have a huge problem. right now you have a big problem. if you find policy impacted by money given -- >> going back to the first part. joe, you know this better than anybody. joe, you've covered this ush entire life. when you donate money to a campaign, what is implied is that, for instance, i gave money

to a certain politician last year. a friend of mine was applying for a job. i called up his assistant, hey, is there anybody he can meet. that's the business of politics. where it goes askew, to your point, is there any way it affects policy. the fact they have access, that's what they give money for, access. every level of politics. does it go to the next level, that's the question. >> clinton's campaign, false attacks from right wing organization adding no matter how this group tries to mischaracterize these documents, the fact remains that hillary clinton never took action as secretary of state because of donations to the clinton foundation. >> true? false? john heilemann. >> as yet unproven. you have to go back to a core question. when did hillary clinton decide to become president of the united states.

she made a promise to president obama about these matters. whether you're a democrat or republican, all kinds of things were supposed to be put in place to keep these kinds of things from happening. >> didn't obama want assurance this wasn't going to happen. >> part of the deal to become secretary of state. this isn't going to be a problem. i'm going to keep arm's length from the foundation, full disclosure. we're not going have this level of conduit -- even if there's not a quid pro quo or what donny is suggesting, it just violated -- it goes back to she made assurances about things that weren't going to happen which did. >> which eddie she says obviously there's a big enough problem that when she's president of the united states, she will not do this anymore and the foundation will not do this anymore, which asks the question, begs the question, why

was it okay when she was united states of america's top diplomat for the world for the clinton foundation to take money and set up meetings, quote, for their friends. >> this is part of a general suspicion we have that the clintons think they are above the law, they are unaccountable to just ethical practices. but i think i want to emphasize what donny said. there's a substantive difference between donations to the foundation to gain access and donation to the foundation to generate policy. i think it's an optic problem, a perception problem, a problem that speaks to the question of her character, but i think we need to be very careful in terms of the kinds of conclusions we draw. there's a direct correlation between the $32 million given and certain decisions she made as secretary of state. joe, your general point is right on. it speaks to the question of can we trust her, what is her

judgment, what are the boundaries to big mike. remember, senator bernie sanders was suggesting this during the democratic primary. this has haunted her for much of her political career. here we have e-mails concrete evidence this is a question we need to take serious. >> the moves they are making to stop certain practices as president, even though she served as secretary of state feeds into, backs up the fact that this is inappropriate. even yesterday bill clinton sent an open letter to clinton foundation staff and supporters, touted their work to combat disease and poverty saying if his wife is elected he will leave the foundation's board and stop fundraising for it. so he knows it's inappropriate but it was okay? >> the question, willie, why does he wait three months to leave when most people now believe that hillary clinton is going tbe elected president of the united states.

>> appropriate now? >> 80% chance according to the "new york times." it's like going out of business sale. if you want to influence us, you've got a couple of months, 75 days to give us millions and millions of dollars because, wow, now we're really going to be powerful and you're really going to want to be our friends. >> i go back even further. if it's not okay for the president of the united states to have relationships through the clinton foundation, why is it okay for secretary of state. falling on their swords, walk away from the clinton foundation as if it was this grand gesture they are sacrificing, why didn't they do it when they were secretary of state. they are doing it now because they have been exposed and people know about what's been going on and they have to do something. >> now let's bring a couple of stories together, the story we learned yesterday there's 15,000 of these e-mails that are now doing to be released between now and election day. a fundamental question never answered in the course of a year that we've dealt with this

e-mail controversy was among the 30,000 plus e-mails that hillary clinton destroyed because they were personal as opposed to the ones she turned over that were work related. i asked this of the campaign multiple times and never got an answer, did she regard foundation related e-mails as personal or not. if it turns out the answer to that question is yes, there could be a lot of e-mail that was destroyed, may be recovered, among these 15,000, how many foundation related. if she and her lawyers deem those to be personal as opposed to work related. the standards she judges personal versus work have never been elucidated. there's a big question politically what are we going to learn as these e-mails get exposed between now and election day. >> also this. donald trump is continuing his call for minority communities to

get behind his campaign. the latest nbc news survey monkey online poll has clinton with an eight-point national lead. in that poll minority groups go overwhelmingly for hillary clinton. trump leads only among white voters. trump held a rally -- >> let's go back to that last poll. we've seen some donald trump only has 1% of black voters. 8% to hillary clinton's 87%, while pathetic, that's what republicans have been getting lately among black voters. hispanic voters, let's put the poll back up, he's at 22%. mitt romney got 25, 26, 27%. so the numbers are -- john heilemn, the numbers are horrific but not as bad as you would expect them to be for a guy who has gone out of his way

to appeal to the underbelly of white resentment. >> he is certainly -- there's obviously some variance if you look at diagrams, someone showed battleground states and the difference how he performed with minority voters from state to state. there are places where he's much worse and places where he's doing a little better. ohio for whatever reason is a state where trump has been more competitive and seems to be more competitive not just in general but among some of those minority groups, not white voters, have been so problematic for him in some places in the country. >> trump held rally in ohio where a new poll shows clinton up 4% inside the margin of error. the republican nominee made

black and hispanic. >> patrol our borders. hillary clinton's plan amounts to total and absolute total open borders. open borders. the democrats have failed completely in the inner cities. pover poverty, rejection, horrible education. no housing, no homes, no ownership. crime at levels that nobody has seen. you can go to war zones in countries that we're fighting and it's safer than living in some of our inner cities. to the affirms, who i employ so many people, to the hispanics, tremendous people, what the hell do you have to lose? give me a chance. look, it is a disaster the way

african-americans are living in many cases, and in many cases the way hispanics are living. i say it with such a deep felt feeling, what do you have to lose? illustraten it out. i'll bring jobs back will we'll bring spirit back. we'll get rid of the crime. you'll be able to walk down the street without getting shot. right now you walk down the street, you get shot. >> you walk down the street and you get shot? >> eddie, what do you make of donald trump's appeal? >> hold on. let's wait and see if eddie is singing "happy days" are here again. hold on, eddie is about to get shot. can we get security over there. what? holy moly. >> look, it's absolutely ridiculous. joe, yesterday you rightly described his comments as

offensive. i don't want to get into what's obvious. the one thing that we do know is that we can't take donald trump's appeal to african-american voters and latino voters as sincere. i want to just be clear about that. i don't read them as sincere. i don't think he's engaging in good faith. i think what he is calling attention to and what we have to take seriously is the failure of public policy to address the substantive condition of a large number of african-americans in the united states. so that means we have to figure out what is the republican response to double digit unemployment. what is the republican response to the housing crisis where we've seen african-americans lose their homes at alarming rates. what is the response to urban policy, failure of public education. beyond the kind of treatment of african-americans as these apolitical creatures that you herd like cattle chewing cud,

what are the actual policies that the republican party will put forward? maybe trump needs to talk to shannon reeves or ashley bell or sailor who have been hired by rnc for african-american outreach and get more substantive policy issues to the community. i should say this, joe, for me, what he's said and what he's done up to this point, i've disqualified him as anybody to -- i can't take him serious. >> i think you are right. what his speechwriter or his note writer or whomever got the whatever words they got in front of donald trump yesterday was trying to do was bring up a good argument and an opening that the republican party has, which is look what democratic control of urban areas over the past 40 years has done and give us a chance. give us a chance to fix your

schools. give us a chance to allow poor students and the truly disadvantaged to have the same opportunities to choose schools for their children that rich white kids in scarsdale, new york, have. we talk in new york about the scarsdale harlem divide and trying to figure out how to give children in harlem the same opportunities children in scarsdale have when it comes to schooling. that's just one example the republicans do. i agree with you. paul ryan has talked about this nonstop. we went down to -- >> the kemp forum. >> the kemp forum in south carolina. you not only had paul ryan but a lot of people from ai obsessing about poverty. >> a great forum. >> the question is, how do you actually pass policies through very conservative house of representatives that speaks to

these issues, does more than just provide lip service? >> i would want to suggest as well, joe, we can talk about school choice. we can talk about charter schools, we can have that debate around issues. i would also want to suggest the same question donald trump is putting to communities of color, we can also present to poor white communities in western pennsylvania, poor white communities in rural mississippi and alabama and pensacola, florida. what has the republican party done to fundamentally transform your life circumstances? what economic agenda? part of what this moment suggests is we need to ask our selves fundamental questions about what both parties have done over the last decade or so. >> eddie, that's actually in large part why donald trump has succeeded this year and speaking to disaffected white voters across america, working class voters, because the republican

party out of washington, d.c., has passed policies that appeal to corporate interest, that appeal to wall street, that appeal to k street, appeal to national chamber of commerce more than small business owners in florida, florida, or akron, ohio. there you do have a real divide, willie, that's why national republican party is breaking apart right now. a lot of people point to racism, that makes people feel great. yes, there's an undercurrent of racism out there. also you look at the numbers, you look at the studies, you look at how trade has blown communities apart and republicans haven't had an answer to that and those people are voting for bernie sanders or donald trump. >> the bernie sanders message, the anti-washington message. i would say on the politics of what donald trump said yesterday, he knows he's not going to win many african-american votes, he does. he's not going to clear 10%. he's aware of that.

i think what he's signaling is to swing voters, republican voters in suburbs of philadelphia, columbus, ohio, and all that, don't worry it's okay to vote for me. i'm not a complete racist despite the things i've said and despite what you're hearing about me i'm a rational guy. >> white suburban -- >> giving them permission -- >> single most obvious impact of kellyanne conway's ascension. she's obsessed with this set of voters, white suburban women, republican women, who are unlikely to vote for hillary clinton but who may be so turned off from donald trump they stay home. she understands he cannot continue to perform with those women the way he has so far. everything he's doing on this front, the potential shift on immigration, i don't know if that's going to happen. the speech was called off. immigration softening on that issue, addressing communities of color, all about talking to

those women, trying to make them lesterified that he's not such -- >> african-american voting he was talking to all the women who don't want to vote for hillary clinton but i can't vote for this guy, he's a bad guy, racist, nasty. >> well, maybe he's not that bad. look how nice he's talking. >> mika and i have met time and time again over the past month women who are voting differently than their husbands and are saying, in fact, one big fundraiser, republican fundraiser that wants to get involved with donald trump because that's what he does. so again, do it. the wife won't let me. she's standing in front of the train and saying, no, you won't. that story is repeated over and over again. i will say this.

if donald trump wants to speak to black voters, i have a suggestion for him, it's actually gene robinson's suggestion. if you want to speak to black voters, talk to them. don't speak to white voters about black voters, that looks like a total scam. if you want to speak to black voters, they have invited you to a lot of conferences and you've said no to every single one. if you want to speak to black voters, you want to speak to hispanics, i'm sure there are a lot of groups that will set it up. i think the dynamics of donald trump going in and getting booed but continuing hispeech anyway might be more powerful than speaking to a bunch of -- >> the first thing he would say in that setting would be to apologize for having waged the birther campaign against the first american president. that would be the other way to get through the door.

>> wouldn't be just one of his african-americans but look at all of my affirms. >> all i can say is what about bob. baby steps. coming up on "morning joe" the ragin cajun coming up on set. look over there. kareem abdul jabbar with his thoughts on the presidential race. >> also ahead, trump revealed. much anticipated book two "washington post" reporters on the billionaire businessman's life and how it impacted his presidency. >> he tweeted about this. boring exclamation point. >> we'll talk to the authors. back in a moment. try not to take things personally. all right. thank you pam. don't let the little things get to you. get your beauty sleep. and use aveeno® absolutely ageless® night cream. with active naturals® blackberry complex. you'll wake up to younger looking skin in just one week. younger looking skin can start today.

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the fallout over ryan lochte's claim of being held at gunpoint in brazil four of his sponsors cutting ties with him. swimmaker speedo announced they would be drog hpping him. >> can i ask something? i wasn't there, donny wasn't there, why did speedo -- they dropped our sponsorship, too.

>> they still have me. >> i wasn't even in rio. >> they couldn't say exclusively but when your body type changed from when they originally signed you, it wasn't as chiseled, perhaps, it's more chiseled. >> have you seen me from sc scarboro days? >> i trimmed up. >> downhill. >> we cannot condone, said speedo -- we cannot condone, said speedo, behavior that is count to the values this brand long stood for. we appreciate his achievements and hope he moves forward and learns from this experience. the company will donate to save the children. lochte responded saying he respects speedo's decision. ralph lauren which outfitted for

rio ceremonies, said he would not renew the deal, only from rio games, also removed images from their website. >> when i saw nbc's wonderful review of the olympic games, i sat there with my kids, we're all sitting there watching. they have the swimmers, everything else, it was like one of those mayday parades in the kremlin. >> air brushed him out. >> air brushed him out. you hardly saw him. i sat there thinking, how old is the guy? >> 32. >> the kid. he's old enough to know better. can you believe a mistake, that decision. >> did you see the john oliver tribute to ryan lochte the other night? >> no. >> you've got to watch that? >> it's something else. >> was he a troublemaker? >> i don't know a troublemaker. he was a partier. autoes got a long history. he's had some incidents. >> not necessarily the brightest bulb in the chandelier.

>> perhaps not. >> why did he do this? did he miss curfew? was he trying to cover something up? >> he said he was drunk and he didn't remember what he did exactly. >> right there, drunk and plakd out, that should be the out. >> just because that has worked for you for 50 however many years. >> it's actually sad. advertisers have no choice, once that happens, even if they like the guy. it's sad, somebody's life gets ruined over that one thing. obviously he was an idiot made a stupid decision. it's sad we live in a world where immediately -- >> a bad night. he goes on, and i saw hill when he went on live talking about being robbed. oh, my god. he did not have to do that. >> "usa today" did an investigation they published yesterday that said there wasn't a lot of damage in the bathroom. the security guards did pull out guns. he didn't know they were security guards.

to him he felt like we didn't really do anything that warranted having guns pulled on us, it felt like a robbery. i'm not excusing him. there were circumstances that led him to believe he was being robbed. >> the story he told the car got pulled over by bandits dressed in cop suits and dragged out of the car. >> i think bolting the country and leaving the other guys behind. >> must-read opinion ahead. will a jar of pickles put to bed the conspiracy theory swirling around clinton's health? >> that's a tease. >> we'll explain that ahead. on tomorrow's show former presidential candidate and adviser to the trump campaign dr. ben carson will be our guest. >> have them operate on donny. >> be right back.

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yesterday and today and saying you seem to be sick, you look tired, et cetera, et cetera. are you in good health? >> well, this has become one of their themes. you take my pulse while i'm talking to you. >> okay. >> so -- >> there's nothing there. >> there's nothing there. what can i say? back in october the "national enquirer" said i'd be dead in sick months. so with every breath i take, i

feel like -- >> a new lease on life. >> a new lease on life. >> can you open this jar of pickles? it has not been tampered with. >> all right. coming up, james carville joins the table with his new book, it's subtly titled "they are still right, we're still wrong." >> look at the bird. >> see the bird. >> look at his jacket. donny deutsch's jacket right there. >> that's more mo ginsburg 1983. >> wow, you're hostile, kid. wow, you're hostile. >> also a preview of what hillary clinton will be doing this week in reno. >> mo green. >> yes. built with passion... but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business...

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hey lmaybe let's play upl our the digital part.r job, but it's a manufacturing job. yeah, well ge is doing a lot of cool things digitally to help machines communicate, might want to at least mention that. i'm building world-changing machines. with my two hands. does that threaten you? no! don't be silly. i'm just, uh, going to go to chop some wood. with that? yeah we don't have an ax. or a fireplace. good to be prepared. could you cut the bread? morning is nothing new...stion, muddling through your ♪ introducing rhinocort® allergy spray. powerful relief from nasal allergy symptoms, all day and all night. ♪ try rhinocort® allergy spray. muddle no more®. you wore a lab coat last night on your show. why was that? >> former mayor giuliani suggested yesterday we should

google. if you google you can find out about hillary clinton health. >> what did you do? >> we googled and found stories debunking conspiracy theories. we decided to google rudy giuliani dementia, a lot of stories speculating with equal scientific rigor that rudy giuliani lost his -- if google is scientific course. >> you had a close encounter with urologist on sean hannity. >> a fine doctor, a urologist was on last night, two nights ago with his lab coat on, talking about hillary clinton's problems. the doctor, funny we should bring his name up, gave me an exam on the "today" show. all clear. >> is there a video of that? >> live on the "today" show. >> a urologist went on hannity show to pass judgment on hillary

clinton's mental state of mind despite the fact he never, of course -- >> a urologist diagnosing hillary clinton on the basis of a videotape. >> let me ask you this. that sounds like a stretch. was he wearing a lab coat. >> he was wearing a lab coat. he's a doctor. actually said urologist. >> judgment on her mental well-being? >> you know what hannity says, he's not a journalist. >> i never said i was a journalist. that's what habity said. >> "wall street journal." >> did you know he was not a urologist either. >> willie geist, a cruel joke played on you. >> he works downstairs. >> he makes great meatball subs, the guy is just really good at what he does. he's not a urologist, though. "wall street journal" editorial

board writes this. further evidence that mrs. clinton -- i'm sorry, eddie -- set up her private server to prevent the public from seeing how hillary and bill mixed public power with their personal financial and political ambitions have i, the family foundation. when she got caught mrs. clinton cherry picked the e-mails she turned over to the state and tried to destroy the rest. meanwhile everyone important in the world understood a gift to the clinton foundation was a way to influence the government. as for t as for mr. powell, the clintons have never had any strupel about tarnishing someone else's reputation to protect their path to power. maybe they will make it up to him with an invitation to state dinner for crown prynne of bahrain. it's what you've been talking about onfor a long time, reluctant democrats have been talking about for a long time, why they are so reluctant to

support hillary clinton. >> not only the issue of trust, which this is an example, there are ideological questions, debates around her positions on foreign policy, her coziness with wall street. in some ways she's poster of the new economy on the democrat side. for ideological reasons there are questions to be asked. but here, this is this issue that the clintons seem to believe that they exist above everyone else, and that they can't be held -- they ought not to be held accountable for their actions. this is really, really a problem, particularly when every day ordinary folk are struggling. every day ordinary folk are held accountable. every day ordinary folk find themselves between a rock and a hard place. >> playing by the rules and not doing better. >> playing by the rules and sometimes losing badly. >> the question is, john, is this going to have an impact in the end? can we have an e-mail story every day and people still vote for hillary clinton because of who she's running against.

>> or fed up. >> it's not like they don't already know. 55%, 56% of americans think she should have been indicted. she's up eight points in the latest poll. >> e-mail story and foundation story are slightly different. in our last poll a lot of people concerned about corporate foundation and foreign donations to the foundation and its effect on government policy as we discussed earlier than concerned about the issue of the private server. for all but hard core partisans on the right, e-mail private server issue has largely been put to rest. the foundation is a new story, relatively new story. we're just starting to get into this. it's taken a year longer than a lot of people thought it would. are there people in the middle of the electorate -- again, same category we talked about before, suburban republican leaning women who might not ever vote for hillary clinton but might stay home rather than vote for trump. there are democratic leaning

voters who might just become so disgusted with the clintons as more details come out? might. hypothetically. they stay home and it effects the election. that's possible. seems to me those groups are almost more interested in that group of voters on both sides who are not deciding between clinton and trump but voting for the party they would normally vote for and staying home and what effect that might have. >> willie, this story feeds so much into donald trump's message, though. the system is rigged. foreign powers are taking advantage of us. they are ripping us off. now if you can make a connection saying they are ripping us off because our leaders are on the take and the person that's running for president is on the take more than anybody else. donald trump couldn't ask for a better set of facts to line up against his opponent if you have that quid pro quo everybody is looking for. >> same message as bernie sanders. all the action, decisions made

at the top by tiny group of elites in washington and other places. they don't care about you. i think it should be clear to everyone the crown prince of bahrain isn't giving millions to clinton foundation so maybe someday he can have a cup of coffee with hillary clinton. they want to influence policy. they want a derrek line here so they can influence policy. not so they can meet her. they can meet her if they want to meet her. if you find a connection to policy, this becomes a massive story and it's already a big one. >> hillary clinton remains on the west coast this morning. she held a series of fundraisers in california last night and has more scheduled today. clinton is also expected to deliver a speech in reno, nevada, later this week in which her campaign said she'll address donald trump and his advisers and so-called alt-right branding it extremist and utopian, comes amid report that finds at least serve of trump's paid staffers have expressed racially charged

views online having, quote, supported the violent actions that are broadly hostile to muslims. the wire service said by comparison they could find nothing as inflammatory on the accounts of clinton's staff. yeah. still ahead -- >> again, donald trump can do a series of things, which we talked about yesterday morning to show that this is more than -- more than paying lip service. >> republican nominee. >> to black voters and hispanic voters. i don't know that we're going to see him take steps. >> i think it's fundamental we need to say this and say this clearly. the american people aren't stupid. this is not an issue of rebranding. this is not an issue of just simply pivoting, it's an issue of who the guy is. if you have staff who are trading in all of this kind of racist stuff, you have him saying build a wall banning

muslims, right, just because you pivot for one cycle, reset for, it's not going to change that and people aren't stupid. i want to be very clear. the way in which african-americans are treated in american political processes, political scientists, my colleague says african-americans are often treated as a cache for electorate. republicans only want a certain percentage and democrats know we have nowhere to go. they don't have to deliver on policy, just have to turn us out every election. the result is african-americans participate in the democratic process in a distorted way, right? but we're not stupid. this is the important point. you just can't t us, as i said earlier, as cattle chewing cud to be herded to the polls every two or four years or you can't simply say what do you have to lose, as if the gop is the only option we have, we know gop has governors -- has

governors in states all across the country, has impacted urban policy, right. but we have -- it's a deal. >> it's a joke. how do you question for the party, how do you support someone who -- he's trying to pivot from hate and from generating hate. you can't pivot from that. >> still ahead pulitzer prize winning writer, middle east and where it moves next. of course the extraordinary work, "the looming tower." we'll talk to lawrence ahead on "morning joe." could do to our economy. if we don't solve our debt problem 19 trillion and growing money for programs like education will shrink. in just 8 years, interest on the debt will be our third largest federal program. bad news for small businesses. the good news? there's still time for a solution. ask the candidates for a plan to secure our future.

coming up at the top of the hour why "washington post" chris cillizza says colin powell is a bad enemy for hillary clinton to make. chris joins us to explain. plus looks at the bird. do you see it? james carville joins the table next on "morning joe." >> we're going to get, i think, get you in a lab coat? you wore one yesterday? willie would like an exam. >> oh, god. >> hankering after another exam. >> >> this show. >> he's vigilant. >> he is vigilant. americans are buying more and more of everything online. and so many businesses rely on the united states postal service

to get it there. because when you ship with us, your business becomes our business. that's why we make more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. the united states postal service. priority: you hillary clinton: i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message. vo: in times of crisis america depends on steady leadership. donald trump: "knock the crap out of them, would you? seriously..."vo: clear thinking... donald trump: "i know more about isis than the generals do, believe me." vo: and calm judgment. donald trump: "and you can tell them to go fu_k themselves." vo: because all it takes is one wrong move. donald trump audio only: "i would bomb the sh_t out of them." vo: just one.

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go online and put down hillary clinton illness and take a look at videos your self. >> so taking a cue from that helpful tip from mayor giuliani we decided to look up hillary clinton illness and we found multiple articles debunking these wild eyed conspiracy theories. while we were nosing around on the internet we said, hey, what's up with this rudy guy and came up with dementia. he may be suffering from dementia, from medical experts from ring of fire who have as much medical expertise as we do. >> well done. tuesday august 23rd. we have managing editor of

bloomberg politics dr. john heilemann. oh, my god, well done. >> the lab coat. >> you can google anything. renowned ad man donny deutsch is still with us. in washington msnbc political contributor and editor at "the fix," "washington post," chris cillizza. here on set, what a cover -- >> what a cover. >> talk about a punch bowl situation. we started the last hour talking about -- >> no, just let that breathe. >> we had democratic political strategist james carville. you always keep the book up while reading the title. he's the author of the new book "we're still right. they are still wrong." >> the book cover itself says so much. >> a lot of people listen on the radio, mika, why don't you describe -- >> you're going to have to look

that one up on amazon. >> you're bad. this the biggest look at the bird or turd that i've ever seen. >> james, you said something. >> we have stuff to talk about. >> last night you were on cnn and you were talking to a bunch of republicans who you say hate the republican party. you came to the conclusion -- >> donald trump, cory lewandowski, none of these guys are republicans. in fact, they hate the republican party. you've pointed out, this is all about a tv network, partial to longshoreman philosophy, president reagan gave them enough freedom. every movement of the cause becomes a business. they are getting a list $10 a month pay-per-view television. >> i said that all along. he does not want this job. he's going to start a

media/political network, $8 a month subscription. >> trump tv. >> once bannon came in, it wasn't even a question anymore. that's what the game is. he's conning everybody. >> by the way, it's a game -- talk about a racket, it is a game that will make, if they do it right, a lot of money. you get bannon in there who knows how to do stuff like this. i mean, he certainly -- he took breitbart, and a lot of people hate bannon, you hear horrible things about bannon -- i don't know the guy, so i can't pass judgment on him but i know he turned breitbart into a successful business model. if you're trump, hey, i may lose. i get 40, 50 million people voting for me. i'll convince them the election is rigged. i'll have this army pay me $8 a month and suddenly he's making more money than he's ever made

before. >> another one, roger ailes, made more money in television. >> roger is working. roger loved exacting revenge on nbc for passing up on him 20, 30 years ago. and nbc, at least the cable networks, paid for it every since. now he'll get a chance to do it to murdock's sons who never liked him. >> dupes. he's basically on fox every day. he's in the henhouse. basically they will become defacto more revolutionary fox. it's so clear what's happening here, it's comical. >> able to con money. >> on top of that, what is the other he wants, attention. he'll have this third party voice from here going forward. after state of the union speech

hillary gives when she's president, who do you think the country will be interested in hearing, opposing congressman or donald trump. >> another example. >> trump. they are not going to want to hear some senator. >> ann coker. she spent more time attacking the republican party than hillary clinton. ann coulter. i'm sure she'll have a show. everybody is lining up. >> james seen had before in 1994 when we were swept into office, i remember seeing articles saying is the democratic party dead. in 2004 when bush got re-elected, democratic party dead. karl rove talking but permanent majority, two years later, speaker of the house. i ask this next question with grave reservation, is my

republican party coming to an end as we know it. >> it's 162-year run. presently construed, the country moving in one direction, right now the republican party is moving in another direction. parties change and they change fast. we're supposed to be republicans in 1964, then 10 years later we knew it was over in 1974. so parties have to adjust. traditionally republicans have been more ideological, democrats coalition of interest groups. coalition of interest groups are easier to hold together for the moment than your -- >> can steve bannon and mitt romney ever be in the same party? i don't know how this can. >> i don't think they can. i don't think steve bannon -- i think mitt romney is joe scarborough, james carville, hillary clinton, members of our political party, we've been to fundraisers, election night, we

won, we lost, we get disappointed. i don't think that steve bannon -- i think he probably secretly likes it when republicans lose. it's a very weird thing. mitt romney, john mccain, bob dole, between the three of them, i'll bet you they have been to 5,000 republican fundraisers. >> the thing is, if it were just about steve bannon or donald trump, coulter that would be one thing. obviously as you know, there are millions and millions and millions of people who share that view. you were talking about driving past mississippi coast coliseum back last year and seeing all of those americans lining up around the coliseum to go see donald trump. we're not saying -- if it were just three or four leaders here or there, that would be one thing. this is a massive split in the party. >> yes, it is. we know enough about politics to know 40% can't win an election.

he knows enough about television to know 40% of the country can make you a bucket of money on a tv network. >> make you a zillion air. >> establishment and base. >> college and noncollege, too is the other part of it. >> really is changing. >> if donald trump does not win this presidential election, what happens to the party? is this a donald trump moment or is this a national moment? >> look, every cub that i know has a kind of slightly nationalistic pro business government skeptic, low tax, more patriotic party. there's always going to be -- a party that's always done well in american politics. sometimes it's done worse. been there for a while. contradictions object things like trade and immigration are really, really big. but you know, they will have to flush it out again and they are

doing to lose. six elections they will lose the popular vote. some of the people come up. they will bring other people in. you don't know. >> this has been an eight-minute look at the bird. >> when you say flush it out -- >> run the primaries, run for president. >> be quiet, that's terrible. that's just terrible. this show has been toilet talk today. okay. >> look at the back cover. i've got to show you the back cover. i'm going to start laughing uncontrollably. stop, please. >> i'm sorry. >> no, you have distracted us enough. revolutions and criticism involving clinton foundation, this time new e-mails showing access donors got to hillary clinton's top aides during her time as secretary of state. here is the story. i'll let you talk. the group judicial watch released 725 pages of e-mails involving the foundation and

then secretary clinton state department aides with 20 previously undisclosed exchanges that include clinton her self. among them are e-mails showing clinton's top aide huma abedin setting up a meeting for kroub prince of bahrain who committed $30 million to their global initiative. for example in 2009 june clinton foundation executive wrote abedin cp of bahrain tomorrow asking to see her. good friend of ours. within two days abedin, offering bahrain cp 10 tomorrow for meeting with her. if you see him, let him know. we have reached out through office channels. no matter this group tries to mischaracterize these doults, the fact remains hillary clinton never took action as secretary of state because of donations to the clinton foundation. >> first of all, if you notice, you said that, thack god,

through official channels, if you see him let him know. the second thing is not exactly her daddy when it comes to foreign policy but in persian gulf i think bahrain sticks out, maybe one of the most strategically located countries in the world. i think they are a longtime american ally. my guess is the crown prince of bahrain would have gotten a meeting with the secretary of state. >> go through -- >> she went through official channels. what happens is, i'm guessing here, huma sent doug and said we're taking the meeting through official channels, if you see him tell him it's coming in. i don't see a single thing, for the life of me, strange about the secretary of state meeting with probably our best ally and probably most strategic. >> the question is, if he's that important to the united states, and certainly is in that gulf region, why does he have to give $32 million to clinton foundation and then have clinton

foundation reach out to the state department. >> let me go back. the clinton foundation is a five-star rated charity that treat about 10 to 11 million people they give aids antiviral to. taken the cost of malaria drugs down about 90%. i say, this of all the things i'm proud bill clinton did, stopping genocide, human genome project, clinton foundation is an awesome organization. >> it's on the up and up. >> of course it's on the up and up. why would the crown prince of bahrain give -- >> why -- >> clinton should never have taken a dollar. not hillary clinton, bill clinton, chelsea clinton. in fact, last year they gave a million dollars to the foundation. let me go further. no one said anything when senior president bush was raising money for the bush library and bush was president. no one said anything when --

>> that's because his wife wasn't secretary of state. >> majority leader, his wife was head of red cross. i think it's fine, great mrs. dole is head of the red cross. i don't think anybody -- if you wanted to buy influence, he doesn't get any money out of it. >> so if there's not a problem with it, james, why are they saying -- >> we're going to shut it down and there's going to be millions and millions of people that are not going to get any -- millions and millions of people. >> have the clintons done anything wrong? so you're saying bill clinton can't get $550,000 speeches anymore so malaria research is going to stop. how much money have they made off of this, $2 million? >> you know how much money bill clinton has taken out of the clinton foundation? >> doesn't have to he gets paid $50,000 a speech. >> you know how much hillary

clinton has taken? none. >> she doesn't have to she charges state colleges $250,000 for a speech. >> you charge for speeches, i charge for speeches. what's that? george w. bush charges for speech. he gave a speech for $2 million. >> after he was president. >> you have bill clinton getting his fees doubled once you become secretary of state, goes to places that have business before the state department and suddenly he's getting paid $550,000. >> see that number. >> yeah. >> that's how much money bill clinton takes out of the clinton foundation. >> of course. he doesn't have to. >> you know what a million dollars? that's the money he gave, he and his wife gave last year? you know what 11 million? that's the number of people who get antiviral vaccinations. 90%? malaria drugs cheaper because clinton foundation negotiates it. >> you know what that number is?

the times you admit the clintons have done anything wrong? >> no. >> what could the clintons have done to clean this up better from the beginning? >> she said from the get go that the e-mail thing was a mistake. okay. when president clinton had his issues in 1998, i said, he's a good man that did a bad thing. i love the man, defend a man, understand it's a bad thing. but if you say to me i think people -- millions of people get hurt by this, i think the clinton foundation is one of bill clinton's great achievements and i really mean that. we're just going to have to disagree on that. >> to james's point, what is easy to forget, at the end of the day this is a charity raising money, a five star -- back and forth on the politics. >> i think the charity could have continued. >> whatever it is, the net net net at the end of the day, people that need stuff -- >> the charity never had to go away. it could have continued without these conflicts.

>> i just think charity can get top rating. i've seep what they do, i've been to that thing. >> the charity does great work. chris cillizza, there was a way to set it up where there wouldn't be conflicts of interest. barack obama was concerned about it,ed administration was concerned about it. chris salas, a. >> press has won -- >> chris cillizza, you haven't had a chance to talk yet. that hurts us. what's your take? >> that's okay. no, i mean, look, you're not going to prove quid pro quo. james is right. they say, look, go through official channels. you can say, as james did, plenty of reason for her to meet with crown prince of bahrain. it's the appearance of it. it's the perception of it. the perception of it is not good. i think it's the same thing with the e-mails. yes, she was not charged by

james comey. but 15,000 more e-mails or 15,000 more documents related to the e-mails the fbi found are now out. that means that at least some of those, we know thousands from comey, that were work related weren't turned over by her. possible that all that is nothing. probably likely. >> is it baked into the cake no matter what? so let's say something comes out short of an indictable offense, even if it looks like a quid pro quo, isn't that already baked into the cake? people say, yeah, we know hillary clinton, about the stuff, the foundation, something wasn't quite right but we're not voting for donald trump. >> everyone talking about october surprise. it would have to be pretty damn big october surprise. >> donald trump is less liked than hillary clinton. if she was running against someone else, this would be a bigger deal. but her honest and trustworthy

numbers, and i think james would agree with this, are not good if you are a candidate for president. the benefit she has is she is running against someone with worse numbers. he is a terrible messenger to drive the honest and trustworthy issue ready to do this given what he's done in the past message because of who he is, what he's done and how he's run this campaign. he's you uniquely unsuited. i say this every time, i'll say it again. i think she's a flawed beatable candidate but i'm not sure she's beatable by the other candidate. in binary race you've got option a and option b. a lot of people don't want option a, donald trump, and that leaves them with hillary clinton, which is great news for her. today she has to be considered clear favorite to be president. >> james, would it have been smart in hindsight she had been made secretary of state, she had said we will not take foreign

donations. >> secretary of state. >> the good would be we wouldn't be -- the bad would be you'd be out hundreds of millions of dollars doing good. what the clinton foundation does is take money from rich people and give it to poor people. most people think that's a good idea. >> should she have taken money. >> as a political adviser, of course. as a human being, i'm not sure. as a human being i think the foundation does an enormous amount of good. from strictly political standpoint, if my sixth grade teacher says it's right, somebody is going to hell over this. understand here, this is favoring people's lives. there's nothing -- again -- >> i wish i could say the word i want to say. i'll just say that's bs. the fact is if it's a great charity and five-star rated charity, guess what, other people can raise the money.

it doesn't have to be bill clinton calling somebody up making people think, if i give him money it could help me out. if it's a great charity it can stand on its own and other people can raise money for it. it's not a zero-sum game. it's not having bill clinton raise money while his wife is running for president or else we're all going to hell and little kids are going to die across the planet. >> the other thing is, bill clinton has more charm and people around the world have an enormous amount of faith in him. i've traveled with him. i've seen it myself. not many people have the relationships and held in affection around the world like bill clinton. >> let's talk about your home state, louisiana, just another horrible, horrible -- >> worse than it looks because these people were not built in a floodplain, didn't have to have insurance, mortgages didn't require it. you've got 100,000 homes there,

businesses. i don't know how they are going to start schools. it's an a number one colossal mess. >> you've said the federal response this time actually has been pretty good. >> yeah, it has. >> should the president have gone sooner? >> i saw james lee wit and he always said when president clinton was president, don't go, i'm going to go when you tell me to come. after he spoke to the governor friday, he was of the opinion that the president should delay because it takes so much away from the recovery effort. i think he's going today, which is fine. the big thing -- the big advantage of the president, i was fine with trump coming, too. i think he gave $100,000 to a church in greenwood springs. a presidential visit takes a lot more off than candidate visit. if it brings attention and people contributed to baton rouge organization, red cross, catholic charities, any of these groups doing really the large work down there, it's worth it. but the governor has done, by

all accounts, a really good job. his grandfather was a sheriff. his daddy was a sheriff. he was a west point cadet, army ranger, the kind of guy built to be a baseball captain. when you're 6 feet under water, it don't matter. franklin roosevelt could be president and it's not going to help you very much. >> james carville, thank you so much. >> thank you all so much. enjoyed it. >> the new book "we're so right, they are still wrong." chris cillizza, we'll read your piece on why colin powell is a bad enemy for hillary clinton to make. how did we get here? we'll talk about the sparks spreading across middle east and how they started when pulitzer prize winning author lawrence wright joins us. first we'll talk about a new book already making waves with donald trump. he submitted his back page on

twitter. "the washington post" quickly put together a hit job book on me comprised of copies of some of their inaccurate stories. don't buy, boring! . if legalzoom has your back.s, over the last 10 years we've helped one million business owners get started. visit legalzoom today for the legal help you need to start and run your business. legalzoom. legal help is here.

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>> willie, the blurbs are amazing. >> good blurbs. >> make you want to read it. >> all from one man. first reads, it's ridiculous, they know nothing about me. i won't be reading it. donald j. trump. >> this is a lot of fun, let's keep talking. >> if you do a negative book on me, watch, it won't sell. it's probably going to be a negative book. >> who do we have, mika. >> "washington post" investigative reporter, co-authors, ambition, ego, money and power. >> what did you learn about

trump? >> we talked to him more than 20 hours. he was incredibly generous and gracious and exactly opposite of banning "washington post," banning other news organizations. he wanted to tell it in part because of stuff about his youth and family we don't know. >> quickly as we get into this explain to people what we try to explain to people on this side of the table. actually when you get in front of him and talk to him, he can be a very charming man. >> very charming. he's knowledgeable about the things he knows. in other words, business. he can talk about the building materials he used on a project in 1978. he's incurious about the world beyond his business, so he's not a guy who reads much. he's not a guy who reads up on things going on in the world. he watches a lot of television. >> he watches a lot of television. what have you learned? what was your great takeaway? what was revealed of donald trump's character. >> well, joe, it was really

interesting. we know he's had a lot of financial difficulties in his life. the post was able to really explore a series of catastrophes he experienced during atlantic city casino, other periods in his life. six corporate bankruptcies not four. public company, shares at one point $35, went to $0.17. that company lost a lot of money but paid him millions of dollars. it was a roller coaster. >> what does it say about his character that he had so mabe ups and downs but he's where he is today. >> he told us this is about donald trump. a lot of people roughshod treated, people lost money that dealt with him. this was about donald trump. i had to make the best deal for donald trump. if he was president he would look out for all the people. he was it was about surviving, what he had to do at the time.

>> did the bankruptcies and turn in atlantic city make him more conservative with his money? for instance, he puts his name up on buildings. he doesn't expose himself to development, you pay me for licensing, maybe i don't make as much money but don't risk downside. >> he may make mother money. he realized he does not have to put up his own money, didn't have to deal with the banks either. he could sell his name, put his name on buildings, make deal with foreign investors, make deals with developers. >> drive up and down west side highway, willie, trump, trump, trump, trump. >> some of those buildings he owns, a lot of them, especially projects he did in the last 10, 15 years, he has no ownership. in many cases he's not the manager. he rents his name. he gets a guaranteed big income stream. even if the project falls apart or never gets off the ground, he still makes the money. >> willie. >> mike, one of the criticisms

you hear from republicans who don't support donald trump, this guy is not a republican, less alone conservative. he's spent his life supporting democratic causes. in speaking to him for 20 hours did you get the idea you believes what he's saying on the campaign trail? >> we asked. he said last week he doesn't want to pivot because people won't see who he really is. he wants to remain true to himself. there's a chapter called political chameleon. the reason it's a chapter title he did change party seven times, democrat, republican, independent, running for president under different party labels, for mayor, governor. we asked him, what do you say to people who look at that and look at the way you changed positions on abortion, immigration, taxes and would ask what are your core beliefs. he debate respond like a lot might saying i do have core beliefs, x, y, z. his response, avis business

person. i had to deal with politicians all the time and i wanted them to be my friend. he looked at the situation that day. he's been clear -- >> what does he believe in? >> he believes in winning. he believes in himself. he believes in success. he believes that he is a man of the people. he likes the role of being a pro vok tour. he doesn't care for conservatives or liberals. evenings about issues the way joe six-pack. >> making deals and getting things done. is he an archie bunker billionaire as somebody called him. >> he fancies himself the rich kid who connects with cabdrivers an construction workers. >> that's what he does. >> he would go around to construction sites with his father. >> he does. >> he takes great pride in that, real anti-elitist streak. >> bill clinton was asked by "rolling stone" in 1993 is there anything you would die for.

he was angered by the question. is there anything donald trump would die for? >> i don't think so. i think he's deeply committed to his own success, his own position of someone who people can aspire to to follow, but i don't see that. >> i think have you to give him credit for his family. i'm sure he would say i would die for his family. he would say he would die for his country. he a bone spur, didn't serve in the military, went to military academy. he said that. we tried to bring fair treatment to donald trump. we talked about a lot of things. he's had a roller coaster career. we document that heavily. we tried to show where he's been successful and thins he's done throughout his life. >> i don't know heilemann has a question. john. >> guys, you talked about how you brought a lot of information to trump, particularly his relationship with his family he was unaware of. i'm curious about his relationship with his father, fred, and his brother who died alcoholic very young. talk about those relationships and how they shaped him.

>> his father was cold and distant. there's an analogy between the way he related to his father and the way donalds children relate to him. in pot cases, the father was distant, didn't know the kids' friends, when he was 12, 13 years old and able to hang out at the office that's when they connect. that's when donald connected with fred the developer and donald trump's own children who grew up with their mother connected with donald, hanging out at the office, getting involved in the family business. donald said that's when he said this is when he grew to have a bond with his children. when i ask him, who are your friends, who do you turn to in a rough time. he said i don't have friend in the way most people do. you talk about people go out to dinner with friends. i never had that. what he has -- who would you turn to? it's your children. >> he works. he doesn't go on vacation. they actually opened up mar-a-lago because he hated

going down to mar-a-lago when there was no work to do. he would go crazy. it's all about work? >> he's deeply skeptical of people who go on vacation, hang out with freb. he believes as his father warned him, do not be a nothing, be a something. he's been driven all his life to achieve in this big way. >> the new book is "trump revealed, an american journey of ego, money, power." >> sounds great. >> donald trump didn't especially care for it. >> it's ridiculous. >> still ahead nba superstar turned political commentator kareem abdul jabbar. we're back in a moment with much more ahead on "morning joe." co, so you can see our confusion. ge is an industrial company that actually builds world-changing machines. machines that can also communicate digitally. like robots. did you build that robot? that's not a robot, that's my coworker earl.

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up next how the ideology of al qaeda morphed into islamic state. pulitzer prize winning author joins us with his new book "the terror years." >> if you wanted to understand al qaeda 12 years ago you read this book. it was extraordinary, one of the extraordinary books i've read, as jim carville said, this century. his look from al qaeda to isis equally. >> a closer look at war-torn syria through the eyes of the country's youngest. "morning joe" will come right back. (vo) a lifetime of your dog's

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like now. his father said he had nightmares about airstrikes. i'd hold him and kiss him and tell him it's okay. on saft the bombs fell on his home. mohammed was inside with sisters and little brother. four children gone in one night. i want our voices, not just my voice, but all of our voices to reach the entire world, ali says. i want the whole world to hear us. >> that was a report from nbc's kelly cobiella last night. pulitzer prize winning author lawrence wright, he's out with a new book "the terror years, al qaeda from islamic state." in it he writes in part this,

america's involvement in the middle east since 9/11 has been a long series of failures. our own actions have been responsible for much of the unfolding catastrophe. the 2003 invasion of iraq by u.s. and coalition partners stands as one of greatest blunders in american history. the islamic state, also known as isil or isis rose out of the chaos throwing region into turmoil that hasn't been equal since the fall of the ottoman empire. >> it's special. >> a book obviously somewhere you were for 13 days in september. >> 1979 -- '78. >> 1978. >> i was a little girl. >> at camp david and the peace accords. >> got to watch it play out. thank you for joining us. >> lawrence, thank you, the

looming tower obviously an extraordinary book. >> now "the terror years." >> where it ends this really picks up at a stage. i remember when he was blowing up weddings and other isis attacks had al qaeda sending him missives telling him to back off. how did it morph and get to a stage where we see al qaeda as a more humane version of what isis has become, where they were even horrified by these acts. >> when i was writing "looming terror" i couldn't understand why so few jordanians, syrians in it. it was mainly an egyptian organization with a saudi head on it. i found out there was another camp in afghanistan rund by him.

al qaeda gave him money but kept him at a distance. that's where all the people from that area, that's where they joined. they were two twins born in afghanistan. >> so you had the egyptian group that was manipulating as said, giving money, osama bin laden and this splinter group. >> avenues street thug, thief, totally different from the kinds of people who went into al qaeda. bin laden was a businessman, a doctor, middle class professionals. that's not the group. people, more radical elements flocking to his group, went to iraq after the invasion. >> what's been the biggest

failure since 9/11. >> to start with going into iraq was a huge failure. we were in afghanistan, had al qaeda on the run. it was totally, the whole world had turned against al qaeda at that point. the taliban was totally demoralized. we had bin laden on the run. we might have gotten him. all those special forces, all those people on the ground were diverted with iraq and left with residual force that couldn't handle what was going on. they thought it was done. iraq was the main sin we created in the middle east in modern times. >> when was the split? when did isis take off. he's killed by troops. what happens? when do you start saying the real divide between al qaeda as

created by osama bin laden and isis inspired by now a martyr. >> when he was running it, shiites, thought it was improbable, publicity of cutting off people's heads looked bad. sent a letter and said can't you just shoot them? do you have to cut off their heads? from the beginning it's baked into the cake. zarqawi is killed. winds up with baghdadi. he takes over and had the same ideas. what's different he has the religious credentials and his alleged connection to the profit. these things are part of

prophecy. what they have created is they went for the caliphate. >> right. >> that was the difference, the main difference between isis and al qaeda. al qaeda said one day we will persuade the muslim people to turn to a caliphate and we will lead that effort. al zarqawi and later baghdadi said, no, the time is now. >> the nature of the threats, lawrence, is so different. if you lo at al qaeda planning 9/11, it took money. it took identifying 19 people, getting to the united states, teaching them how to fly commercial airlines. in the case of isis, you can have a guy walk into a nightclub in orlando and in the process of carrying out his act of terrorism call 911 and pledge allegiance to isis and say i'm doing this in the name of this warped ideology. the west has had a difficult time getting its arms around fighting isis as opposed to al qaeda. you can't bomb ideology, you can't bomb a guy in orlando.

>> originally after 9/11, al zawahiri didn't want-free lancer attacking america. the u.s. is broadway for al qaeda. as a consequence they couldn't pull anything off. but there was, abu musab al s k zarqawi well-known philosopher, leaderless. that's the philosophy, go forth and kill any opportunity you have, in any manner you can. now al qaeda is perfectly happy to join in on that. but it was originally isis that put that into play. >> let me pull you into a dirtier game, that's presidential politics. what do you make of donald trump's claim -- i know what you make of it -- but donald trump's claim of barack obama and hillary clinton's role in the formation of isis, how isis is being used as a kind of

political kind of football in this particular moment given what you've heard? >> you know that's nonsense. i just told you, the lineage al qaeda and isis and if you want to point a finger of blame in our direction you would have to say that the bush administration was unprepared for -- you know, there was no discussion about terrorism during the camcampaign. there was very little understanding. to give them credit they did respond very quickly, but the idea of taking -- going from afghanistan into iraq was a horrible diversion of our energies. >> lawrence wright.

thank you is much. hillary clinton widening a double digit lead in one of the most critical battleground states. that's ahead on "morning joe." that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet? ♪

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a new poll shows donald trump has serious ground to make up. it shows clinton leading trump 48-32. gary johnson at 8% and jill

stein at 3. 49% of clinton supporters said their vote was more of a vote for her than against trump and the opposite was true for trump backers. 49% said their vote is against clinton and 35% say it's a vote for him. >> it is hard to remember a republican winning the white house without winning virginia. i don't know how far back you have to go but i can't think of anyone in my lifetime. >> donald trump, if he doesn't win virginia which he is losing big, colorado, which he is losing big. he is close in ohio, not quite as close in florida but his margin forr error is tiny. >> it is tiny. you have to win michigan or another state that seems to be out of range for him.

>> still ahead, donald trump tries to sell himself to minority voters claiming they will be safer if he wins the white house. plus, foreign donations to the clinton foundation influence decision making while secretary of state. "morning joe" is back in a moment. using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the fruit... veggies... and herbs needed to create a pop-up pick-your-own juice bar in the middle of the city, so now everyone knows... we have some of the freshest juice in town. see what the power of points can do for your business. learn more at chase.com/ink

see what the power of points can do for your business. soon, she'll type the best essays in the entire 8th grade. get back to great. sixteen gig lexar flash drives just three ninety-nine. office depot officemax. gear up for school. gear up for great. morning is nothing new...stion, muddling through your ♪ introducing rhinocort® allergy spray. powerful relief from nasal allergy symptoms, all day and all night. ♪ try rhinocort® allergy spray. muddle no more®. hillary clinton: i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message. vo: in times of crisis america depends on steady leadership. donald trump: "knock the crap out of them, would you? seriously..."vo: clear thinking... donald trump: "i know more about isis than the generals do, believe me." vo: and calm judgment. donald trump: "and you can tell them to

go fu_k themselves." vo: because all it takes is one wrong move. donald trump audio only: "i would bomb the sh_t out of them." vo: just one. them." vo: just one. thiswell we thought geench programmed machines to talk. ge is an industrial company that actually builds world-changing machines. machines that can talk to each other digitally.

hello? they don't talk to each other like that, ricky. shhhh, you'll anger it. he looks a little ticked off now. can you prepare?

>> you have to prepare. i watched a lot of his debates during the primaries and he insulted all of his opponents. he insulted all of the moderators. he insulted about 80% of the american people and the rest of the world. how do you prepare for that? i think on the one hand it's a serious chance for americans to tune in and if they haven't made up their minds to try to make up their minds. i want to take it seriously and i want to talk about what i think we can do and how important it is but you have to be prepared for whacky stuff that comes at you. i am drawing on my experience in elementary school. all right. good morning. it is tuesday, august 23rd. welcome to "morning joe" along with joe. >> he is wearing green shoes. >> they are black. >> they are green. >> get the shoe up.

they are black. >>. >> they are green. >> and we have this jacket too. >> it is pretty impressive. so apparently all due respect, you'll get your fashion advice. >> and this is big. >> author of the book democracy in black. >> eddy, before we get started -- >> oh, we got willie geist here. yesterday it was your lou day. >> yeah. i announced yesterday i will be stepping away from the 9:00 hour of the today show which means more time here. still doing sunday today and still be contributing over there. i'm not going any where but i'll be here more often. >> so i don't understand.

it was a great send off. why did they escort you out like in handcuffs? >> well, what was sad all you had to do was walk across the street. >> and they didn't slow down. they threw me out of the van. it was cruel. >> no. so i'm still here. >> know your value, willie. >> all right. should we move onto the news here? we have a lot to cover. >> i want to understand. do we leave them hovering like tour turds. >> hovering like turds? >> we don't want to discuss your habits. >> it must have been a bad 12

hour ifs are hs for him. >> he called me little donnie d. and i called him little donnie t. it was 10:00 sunday night. wouldn't you think our future president would be watching the closing sceremonies of the olympics. >> so he could learn about foreign policy? >> it was not tom particular provocation. >> the next morning he went after a particular morning show and went after our mom here which i thought was not -- cruel. >> sister. >> sister. and i guess he is kind of -- i don't know. it was -- i just was wondering -- now they have somebody next to him on the airplane to make sure -- >> funny thing, we had that reset button. we talked about pivot. there it is. >> hey, we can just take that

down now. actually i think that's the big story. >> that's not the big story. >> no. no. no. other than helping me gain twitter followers, the big story is that he was in the middle of what was supposed to be a reset and then just blew up. and so what it does in effect, it proves all of his critics correct. >> we really didn't need proof. we knew it would happen again and again and again. he can't control himself and everything he said can't be unsaid. let's move on. this is the news or you think would be the news. i'm sure donald trump will figure out a way to make it not the news and lose the election. >> this is big news. he will have to work hard. >> yes. >> involving the clinton foundation this time new e-mails showing to hillary clinton's top

aids during her time as secretary of state. it released 725 pages of e-mails involving the foundation and secretary state department aids with 20 previous undisclosed exchanges that include clinton herself. it shows clinton's top aid setting up a meeting for the crown prince of bahrain who committed $22 million and received multiple requests from donors. >> and really quickly right there, the parent part of that you had doug at the clinton foundation sending e-mails over to her saying hey, this is a friend of ours. he said this is a friend of ours. you need to set up a meeting. she says she is uncomfortable with it. >> this is one of the e-mails

you're looking at it. >> but she went ahead and did it anyway. there is one exchange where it's the case when she expresses discomfo discomfort. there were others when she set up the meeting. >> i think the thing that makes people uncomfortable is whether favors were traded or not, just the level of access, which there was a direct pipeline for big donors at the foundation they were previously we have a rolex watch and in exchange they got some vitamin supplement stand in a governor's room. here you have $32 million exchanged.

$32 million. $32 million exchanged for a meeting at the state department, that ain't nothing. and it seems so massive in scale. >> well, the trump campaign yesterday, donald trump and mike pence called a pay for play enterprise. getting meetings with the secretary of state, that's good. >> have you seen this in many movie before? >> at least you're buying access. >> you're buying access. the next was official united states policy effected? if so you have a huge problem. right now you have a huge problem. if you find it was -- >> that's the key. going back to the first part -- and joe, you know this better than anybody. when you donate money to a

campaign what is implied in it is for instance i gave money to a certain politician last year. a friend of mine was applying for a job. i called up and said hey, is there anybody they can meet. that's the business of politics, where it goes askew is if they have access. every political this is politics. does it go to the next level? that's the question obviously. >> so they dismissed as an organization adding no matter how this group tries to mischaracterize documents the fact remains that hillary clinton never took action because of donation to the clinton foundation. >> true, false? >> it is yet unproven.

there are all kind of things that were supposed to be put in place. >> this is what they want. >> that's my point. she basically, as part of the deal to become secretary of state, she said this isn't going to be a problem. i will keep arm's length from the foundation. we'll have full disclosure. you'll see everything going on. we are not going to have even this level of the -- >> right. >> even if there is not a quick pro quo or what donnie is suggesting it goes back to she madessurances. >> she says there is a big enough problem that when she is president of the united states she will not do this anymore and the foundation will not do this anymore which begs the question, why does it okay when she was

the united states of america's top diplomat to the world for the clinton foundation to take money and set up meetings to their quote friends? >> right. i think this is part of a general suspicion we have that the clintons think they are above the law, that they are unaccountable to ethical practices. there is a substantive difference between donations to the foundation to gain access and donations to generate policy. i think it's a perception problem. it's a problem that speak to the question of her character. i think we need to be very careful in terms of the kinds of conclusions we draw. certain decisions she made as secretary of state. your general point is right on. as it speaks to the question of can we trust her, what are the

boundaries of her relationship? we heard this. bernie sanders was suggesting this. this has haunted her for much of her political career. here we have e-mails. this is a question we need to take seriously. >> and i think the moves to stop certain practices as president even though she served as secretary of state feeds into it. it backs up the fact that this is inappropriate. even yesterday bill clinton sent an open let tore clinton foundation saying that -- you know, touting their work but formally announcing if his wife is lelktelected he will stop fo raising for it. >> and the question is -- >> but it was okay? >> why does he wait three months to leave when most people now believe that hillary clinton is going to be elected president of

the united states? >> it is appropriate now. >> she has 82% according to the new york times. it's like it's a going out of business sale. if you want to influence us you a couple of months, 75 days to give us millions and millions of dollars. wow, now we are really going to be powerful. >> i go back even further. if it's not okay for the president of the united states to have these relationships why is it okay for the secretary of state? >> that's what i mean. >> falling on their swords. it was as if it was this grand gesture. >> it is years of -- >> and know about the things that have been going on. >> and let's bring it together. it is a couple that we learned yesterday that there is 15,000 of these e-mails that are now going to be released between now and election day. any fundamental question never

answered in the course of a year that we dealt with this e-mail controversy was among the 30,000 e-mails hillary clinton destroyed because they were personal as opposed to the ones that were work related. i asked this question on multiple occasions over courses of a year and never got an answer. did she regard foundation related e-mails as personal or not? if it turns out the answer to that question is yes there could be a lot of e-mail that was destroyed but now may be recovered among these 15,000 e-mails, how many are foundation related if she and her lawyers deem those to be personal as opposed to work related? again, the standards have never been -- new e-mails get exposed between now and election day. >> all right. also this, donald trump is

continuing his call for minority communities to get behind his campaign. the latest nbc news survey poll has clinton with an 8 point lead. sno minority groups go overwhelmingly. trump held a rally -- >> wait. hold on one second. let's go back to that last poll. we have seen somewhere donald trump only has 1% of black voters. 8% to hillary clinton's 87%. while pathetic, that's what republicans have been getting lately among black voters. hispanic voters, let's put the poll back up. he is at 22%. mitt romney got 25, 26, 27%. so the numbers are horrific but not as bad as you would expect them to be for a guy who was

gone out of his way to appeal to the underbelly of white resentment. >> there is obviously -- i believe you may have done this yesterday. they have showed the battleground states of how he is performing from state to state. there is places where he is much worse and places he is doing better. ohio is a state where trump seems to be more competitive not just in general but seems to be more competitive among the minority groups that have been so problematic for him. >> a new poll of ohio voters shows clinton up 4% inside the margin of error. he made a plea for black and hispanic support. >> poor hispanic and african american citizens are the first

to lose a job or to see a pay cut when we don't control our borders. hillary clinton's plan amounts to total and absolute total open borders, open borders. the democratics have failed completely in the inner cities. poverty, rejection, horrible education, no housing, no homes, no ownership, crime at levels nobody has seen. you can go to war zones in countries that we are fighting and it's safer than living in some of our inner cities. to the african americans who i employee so many, so many people, to the hispanics, tremendous people, what the hell do you have to lose? give me a chance.

look, it is a disaster the way african americans are living in many cases and in many cases the way hispanics are living. i say it with such a deep felt feeling, what do you have to lose? i will straighten it out. i will bring jobs back. we'll bring spirit back. we'll get rid of the crime. you'll be able to walk down the street without getting shot. right now you walk down the street and you get shot. >> you walk down the street and you get shot. >> what do you make of donald trump's appeal? >> hold on. hold on. hold on. let's see if eddy is singing happy days or here again. >> is eddy one of african americans? >> hold on. eddy is about to get shot. can we get security over there? holy moly. >> it is absolutely ridiculous.

you rightly described his comments as offensive. i don't want to get into what's obvious. we can't take donald trump's appeal to african american voters and latino voters as sincere. i want to be clear about that. i don't read them as sincere. i don't think he is engaging in good faith. i think what we have to take seriously is the failure of public policy to address the large number of african americans in the united states. so that means we have to figure out what is the republican response to double digit unemployment? what is the republican response to when we have seen them lose their homes at alarming rates? what is the response to urban policy, to the failure of public education? it is as these creatures you

could hurt like cattle chewing cud. what are the actual policies? maybe trum needs to talk to reeves or bell or sailor who have been hire today help with african american outreach and get more policies to present to the community. i think for me given what he said and what he has done up to this point i have disqualified him. i can't take him seriously. >> but i think you have right. what his speech writer or his note writer or whomever got whatever words they got in front of donald trump yesterday was trying to do was bring up a good argument and an opening that the republican party has, which is look what democratic control of urban areas over the past 40 years has done and give us a

chance. give us a chance to fix your schools. give us a chance to allow poor students and the truly disadvantaged to have the same opportunities and choose schools for their children that rich, white kids in new york have. we talk in new york about the scarsdale harlem divide and trying to figure out how to give children in harlem the same opportunities when it come to schooling. that is just one example. the republicans do. i agree with you. paul ryan has talked about this nonstop. we went down to the kemp forum in south carolina. you had paul ryan obsessing about poverty. >> it's a great forum. >> the question is how do you actually pass policies through a very conservative house of

representatives that speaks to these issues. does more than provide lip service. >> i would want to suggest we can talk about school choice. we can talk about charter schools. i would also want to suggest that the same question that donald trump is putting to communities of color, we can also present to poor white communities in western pennsylvania, poor white communities in mississippi and alabama and in pence colflorida. so part of what i think this moment suggests is that we need to ask ourselves fundamental questions about what both parties have done over the last decade or so. still ahead, increasingly looking out of reach donald trump spends today deep in the heart of texas. >> swing state. and later abdul-jabbar joins

us. we'll get his thoughts on the 2016 race. first, here is bill with a check on the forecast, bill. >> it is the peak of the hurricane season. it would be a relatively active season. we have our first concerns. here is the peak of the season, september 10th. brewing with three separate systems. this could become a hurricane. this is what we call a fish storm. this is the one we are more concerned with. this is our american model. they are in decent agreement with a path towards florida. this will be 6:00 p.m. sunday. we are not sure of how intense

the storm would be when it gets there. it could be very weak or could cause damage. that will be decided in the days ahead. it has been a beautiful crystal clear morning for washington d.c. we are watching a beautiful day underway. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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coming up, what's happening up with donald trump's campaign? three events and three states cancelled. we'll get a live report from hallie jackson live from austin, texas in just a bit. you're watching "morning joe."

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hillary clinton: i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message. vo: in times of crisis america depends on steady leadership. donald trump: "knock the crap out of them, would you? seriously..."vo: clear thinking... donald trump: "i know more about isis than the generals do, believe me." vo: and calm judgment. donald trump: "and you can tell them to go fu_k themselves." vo: because all it takes is one wrong move. donald trump audio only: "i would bomb the sh_t out of them." vo: just one. soon, she'll type the best essays in the entire 8th grade. get back to great. sixteen gig lexar flash drives just three ninety-nine. office depot officemax. gear up for school. gear up for great.

[ clock titime. ] you only have so much. that's why we want to make sure you won't have to wait on hold. and you won't have to guess when we'll turn up. because after all we should fit into your life. not the other way around.

are you concerned about that? >> i mean i'm embarrassed about that. they are so boring. >> we already released 30,000 plus. what's a few more? >> in the end you're not concerned there will be something that donald trump is able to use against you, that the republicans -- that comes in at the last second? >> he makes up stuff to use

against me. if he would stick with reality i would haven't a worry in the world. >> hillary clinton talking about her campaign with jimmy kimmel. a major policy speech in the battleground of colorado has been postponed. it comes in the wake of his weekend meeting with his advisory council. he will keep a fundraiser event on thursday. he will be in colorado. it is a similar story in las veg vegas. reportedly keeping a fundraiser in lake tahoe on the calendar. >> he is not going to cancel an event in tahoe? >> no. >> plus a rally and fundraiser have both with scrubbed as well. >> would you like me to speculate on this? >> yeah. >> oregon, a state that was always like a pure act of

insanity now off the table. nevada, a state that many people think because of hispanic population is not within his reach. colorado, another state that most people think is now off the table. i have no idea whether this is -- like i am speculating. those are states donald trump should not be spending time in. many smart strategist rs saying go camp out in the state where your deficit is closeable. >> let me put you on that, oregon i agree, colorado, out of reach. nevada is still close, right? >> it is closer. >> closer. >> but again, if you think that it's time to triage, right? >> yeah! y . >> you might want to focus on state that is are within reach.

>> where i would go, i would go to the great swing state of texas. >> and the swing district of austin. >> there is that. >> you don't -- the path to the white house for any republican always goes through three places. >> cambridge. >> hold on. >> the i-4 corridor and i-4 corridor. >> i thought you were going say cambridge, massachusetts. >> i austin, texas is about as republican as oslo. >> right. >> as the upper west side. i love when she mutters under her breath, ridiculous. >> thank you so much. >> by the way, i absolutely love, love, love, capital

l-o-v-e austin, texas. i would go get some barbecue, listen to great music and say i will see you. >> and you have get your barbecue. >> some tacos. >> correct. >> and take it away. >> in this key battleground state of texas, listen, there has been no major party nominee that has campaigned in 20 years. the last time it happened was back in 1996. you know how well that turned out for him. almost more is like a homecoming. it is an interesting choice for donald trump. she here for fundraising. he is here to meet with donors and have face time with republican folks in the lone star state. it is not in town. it is 30 minutes outside of

austin. when you talk to republican operatives he says listen, it's not like he is going for the college kids here in u.t. he will probably pull supporters in the suburbs of austin and in the rural areas. it is an eyebrow raising choice considering where he is in polling. >> why is he in texas other than money? why is he holding rallies in texas? >> reporter: he likes to feel people supporting him. we have consistently seen this from him since he started to do fundraising. he likes to have some kind of event to -- i don't want to say make it worth his while but to help him feed off the energy, the folks that support him. it is this idea of a special prosecutor and call for an independent investigation. we saw that overnight in ohio

and his speech in akron. i do think we will continue to see that today after weeks of defense trump finally getting on offense. here is a little bit of what he had to say. listen. >> the clintons made the state department into the same kind of pay for play operation as the arkansas government was. pay the clinton foundation huge sums of money and throw in some big speaking fees for bill clinton and you have got to play. you have got to do what you wanted to do. the amount is involved, the favor is done and the significant number of times it was done require an expedited investigation by a special prosecutor immediately, immediately, immediately. >> one quick follow up, does he want that to happen immediately? >> presumably.

>> yeah, three times. you say it three times you probably mean it i guess. >> hey, we have been talking about the matter in terms of swing statemens he can win. where are they going focus the time? what are the states they feel like they have got to really focus on? >> add pennsylvania and north carolina to that list. i'll tell you this. i do think after labor day you'll see donald trump focus ton so called traditional swing states they want to go after. i think right now they are sort of dipping a toe into some of these waters. you talked about maybe colorado, but i think once you hit september you'll see him spending a lot more time in these key counties. they were not spending time in these places. he will likely start to do that. of course the critics would say will it be too late at that point?

clinton is spending a ton of time in these spots. >> it is in pennsylvania, ohio and owhat other swing states is trump going to focus on? >> i think when you look at virginia and look at polling states dem graphly it might be challenges for donald trump. i think there's a sense that pushing his sort of populist message could be it. >> if you look at the polls now it is hard to imagine any scenario where he comes back in

colorado or comes back in pennsylvania or he comes back in virginia, so where do you go if you're trump? i don't see how they -- pennsylvania seems like a lost cause so where do they go? >> it is a brutal map. obviously ohio is a place where you go. i think they are going to try to compete in new hampshire. >> even though he is 15 points behind there. they will try to compete in florida. we have to get out. >> iowa seems close. >> yeah. >> put iowa there. >> i mean, look, they had thought they could go fight in michigan. >> that's not happening. >> that's not going to happen either. if you take the states off the table you're talking about there, pennsylvania has not really -- >> it is just gone. >> take virginia and colorado after the table you have got a

very very tough -- >> so we are looking at nbc map, even if trump wins ohio, new hampshire, north carolina, florida and iowa but looses virginia and colorado -- well, actually that would make it very close. >> make it very close and then you have nevada that is still out there. we haven't really put that into a contestable. polls are closer there. >> but does he have the ground game operation? >> he doesn't have any ground game. >> so he has to go visit? >> kbrae. he doesn't have the ground game. i think they are working with a really good targeting outfit. that's something barack obama has been doing for a year and a half. >> it's the rnc's ground game. they are basically going to try

to outsource it. it is not particularly promissory. >> if trump looses ohio or florida it is just over? >> you can't lose ohio, a combination of ohio. ohio and virginia, it is really hard. if ohio and virginia are both gone you will not be president of the united states. all right. still ahead on "morning joe." >> hello everyone. i'm michael jordan and i'm here with hillary. i said that because i know that donald trump couldn't tell the difference. >> that was the way kareem abdul-jabbar began at the national convention. the search far new equality

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joining us now the nba all time leading scorer, ckareem

abdul-jabb abdul-jabbar. he is out today with a new book called writings on the wall, searching for a new equality beyond black and white. >> and eddy is beyond himself. he'll ask a question and step aside for eddy. he opens the importance about the constitution. he writes too often people are who are all puffed up on their own ideals of patriotism propose actions that are contrary to what the country stands for in an effort to codify their personal believes as law. you wrote this because you want to reopen a discussion about what it means to be american. what do you mean by that? >> i think we have to get back to understanding what the founding fathers were all about.

they realized that everybody had an opinion and everybody was entitled to their opinion but they had to agree on some facts and then work from that point onto figure out a way to put our country together and keep it together. so this whole process requires that we talk to each other with respect and an open mind because until you understand me how are we going to come to find common ground and talk about things? >> and you also talk about how you wanted to write a book of hope where concrete solutions and you have a pretty tough truth to tell on racism and on ending racism. you say it's not going to happen. let's lower expectations. explain that. >> we have to understand what human nature is all about and how it is common for no matter who you are or what your color

is people cause you to feel a need for case and stuff. -- caution and stuff. it will enable us maybe to slow down and listen to what's being said. it kills all rational thought. >> he was recently hired and back on the job again, black lives matter, interrupting business as usual in this country. how will this text help us understand what we said on this show, a nation that's on edge. how will it help us respond to the current crisis to latest disaster around riace in this country? >> we can understand that the people that were all involved with this are our fellow

citizens. we have to live together. it's not like we are going to move to canada or south america some place. we live here. we have to understand each other and get along in a way that enables us to move forward. it requires listening to the other side and finding common ground. >> what are the causes of inequality? what did you find the causes of inequality? >> i think the whole history of our country that put certain segments of american society behind. black americans are way behind because they were not allow today earn money for so long and then after the civil war they still were repressed and kept in a position it is what black americans have struggled with for so long. that's one of the things dr. king said before he died, we

have a huge list of things that need to be done before we get to the point where america is functioning for everybody. >> as somebody who spent most of his life as a social activist, go back to the 'olymp68 olympict you boycotted, it seems like you have more stepping out. caramelo anthony broke down crying not just because he won a gold medal but he said our country has big problems, did you see a risk to being the guy who would step forward and do that? >> there were risks involved but i think aaccomplished a lot more than i risked. i think by raising awareness and letting people know that these issues mean a lot and they have long-term implications for what will happen in our country.

we have to knowledge that and work hard not to let the bad things happen. they said those who k-- he was n point. we have to avoid the bad mistakes made in the past. >> it seems we are running deficits of courage to do the work we are calling for. how do we look the ugliness of what we are kwsquarely in the face? >> i think people don't want to reach in their pockets. it will beexpensive. it will cost a lot. politicians don't want to tell their con stitstituents it is a necessary evil.

>> kareem abdul-jabbar. great talking to you. up next, what, if anything, did we learn today? using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the framework... wire... and plants needed to give my shop... a face... no one will forget. see what the power of points can do for your business. learn more at chase.com/ink see what the power of points can do for your business. ♪ americans are buying more and more of everything online. see what the power of points can do for your business. and so many businesses rely on the united states postal service to get it there. because when you ship with us,

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>> like john at a one direction concert. >> yeah. it is unbelievable. >> what what did you learn today? >> kareem abdul-jabbar is really tall and his prostate in good health. >> and we have a shot actually of -- >> that was right after i finished geist's prostate exam and some people think she is neurotic. it might be a little sexist. that's the thing i learned from you. >> i want to talk about maine lobste lobsters. >> why? >> because i went to maine last week. i did a piece on maine lobsters. he is the lobster man of all lobster men. they brought home the most incredible hard shell and soft

shell maine lobsters. i'm not neurotic. i just love lobster, especially maine lobster. >> and lawrence wright -- >> and -- >> and kareem abdul-jabbar. >> he is such a fan. well, what do we have to lose? everything. >> everything. all right. stephanie picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much. this morning ramping up the attacks. donald trump calling for a high profile investigation into the clinton foundation. >> the favor is done, require an expedited an investigation by a special prosecutor immediately, immediately, immediately. >> this as the state department confirms 15,000 previously undisclosed e-mails