that's going to do it for this hour. i will see you back here tomorrow and mtd daily starts right now. if it's tuesday trump tries to change the subject once again. tonight it's trump 3.0. what has changed now that the rights leading provector is now in charge. >> i have been shocked by the vase scope of hillary clinton criminalalty. >> linton tries to laugh off a surprise. >> my e-mails are so boring. >> we have released 30,000 splourks what's a few more. >> it's the clinton foundation that's becoming a bigger problem and then after a round of criticism, president obama visits flooded louisiana. >> it's not a photo op issue. >> louisiana governor joins me

this hour. this is mtp daily and it starts right now. >> good evening. i am chuck todd and back in washington. rested and a little tan i hope and ready go. welcome to mtp daily and it's been seven days since the new leadership took over and the campaign that was unraveling. the thing is clear with 77 days to go and they're trying to make this race a referendum on her and not him anymore and seizing on the headlines and the clinton foundation. >> the pay for play scandals as secretary of the state. the vase scope of hillary clinton criminalalty is that.

the justice department is required to appoint a special prosecutor immediately, immediately, immediately. >> yes, some rhetoric there and they slammed the foundation and it's the most corrupt in the history and slamming the clinton's life work and the political drift ers and then the health and that she does not really do that much and she looks sick and suggesting that she has brain damage. there's more and here is trump's campaign manager in a newly released do released documentary. >> you think we would know who she is if she was not married to bill clinton. >> he is creating a war zone in the inner cities. >> we are also going reject and

only of votes and then of a better future and so true. that's so true. >> you will be able to walk down the street without getting shot right now you walk down the street and you get shot. >> welcome to week one under new management and then disappears to be the playbook and in fact here are the headline in the weeks before he took over the campaign suggesting that clinton suffers from parkisons and that the top aide maybe a terrorists sly and that she has ties to the muslim brotherhood and it's a full attack on clinton. then, there's part two and appearing to retreat a bit on the hard line rhetoric with the minorities and laying out a strait ji that they say that

mirrors parts of trump's plan. >> we're going get rid of the bad ones and go through the process. obama got a tremendous number of people out of the country. i'm going do the same thing and i just said that. we're going it in a humane man er. >> the pitch to winning it or is this a salvage operation? a way to recover the losses and a big churng of that vote is made up of the college educated groups that you keep on hearing about in the polling and look at this. this is normally a reliable group of -- and these are the folks that do care about her

rhetoric and are the last ones that jump the ship and perhaps to trump campaigns believes that they're the first ones to come back. >> thank you and let me start with the prima nprimness. >> well, what we're seeing is this the stamp of steve and trump 3.0? >> well, i they it's really the stamp of kelly conway and kelly anne con we and then a whole lost of others. myself included who been out here and we have ourself pivoted to the focus on the message and the contrast and the differences between our candidate and donald j trump and hillary clinton. that's really what this is all about. it's about choice and the american people are going to see that. this is what we have been

focused on as we get closer to labor day. this is what you expect in the campaign. >> let me ask you this in the outreach of the majority groups and i am making the assumption that this is less about making the votes than not. one odd thing is he talked about reaching out to hispanic voters and naacp invite, declined, national urban league conference, declined. then there was the national association and then by decline and then the national association of the o poipponent officials and then the round table with the cuban leader got cancelled. how do you explain this? mine the urban league has been one that's been done for years. >> i'm not sure. i think what you really have to

take a look at kand through the process and then what would have been presented in the outcomes and the point is that being made and the enact you have an opportunity to to o go in front of groups that are hostile to republicans and what we're appealing to is the average voter throughout and the person that lives under the apresentation of many of the cities and what are the opportunities and where do you -- go ask the people that live in the in administer city about the options and go ask them about enterprise zones. >> no, wait a minute chuck. you brought this up. let my finish. >> i understand this. it's the minor if i voters. >> well, holding the event with minority people that are going to offer and are in the pocket of the left. make no mistake about where many

of these groups come down. i have looked at the question. >> the u.s. hispanic chamber of commerce. this is not some -- it's not a fan of the trump trade policy and a republican group. well, not right now it's not republican leaning. ask where they are with us and leaning now? these are the questions that you have to ask. where are you going to come down and get the most bang for the buck. that's appealing to the people that ever going to come out there and vote rather than to a small elite group of people who control the organizations and in the pocket of the left and frankly the media is not going help us out in the circumstances at all. you know that. >> yeah, you're seeing that without trying and that's the leadership that we have had for a long time and it's an assumption by someone on the right that no one on the left

will listen and then you know what, that's what you have that. >> yeah you're talking about talk to go the elites and the people that are in power and people that control. we're not about that and that's one of the reasons that we in the campaign have focused entirely and going outs to the american people. what you're stuck on is the notion that we have to appeal and satisfy the people that live in the belt way. you don't have to. the american people that live outside of of the belt way is the real america and people out there. those are the real people that are going to vote by the millions for donald trump. >> i hear what you're saying and get what you're try to go do that they're figured with elite. let me ask you this, if he is going make the appeal, shouldn't that be a good chunk of african american voters and audience at one of the rallies?

does he? >> have you ever been to a rally? have you ever seen? >> yeah. it's not the most diverse crowd. >> it's more diversed than any republican outfit that i have seen and been around it for a long time. it's one of the things that appealed to me and why i inside up with donald trump and the appeal that he had to cross so many of the parts and all of the different aspects of the country. we're try to go do is go out here and relieve the pressure on what we have and the progressives that deliver us as a permanent underclass and trying to fix that. one of the things is growing the economy and the best thing that you can do is go out and appeal to the people that are going to show up and vote opposed to the people that go out here and imagine the news and the cycle everyday that are part of the ruling elites and the city where you live and where i work. >> fair. fair. i hear you there.

i am more elite than i think you are. let me ask you this, donald trump used the phrase war sewn. take me to the american city that looks like a war zone in iraq. i know the campaigns have it all of the time, but you and i know. come on. >> well the issue here is that you need to ask ron how he is doing in the city of chicago and ask yourself how the people in the southside and how they feel about all of this. ask them how they feel. you don't have to ask me, but ask them. they would be happy to tell you how it is. ask them how they feel. i think that they would probably come up with a similar description. >> okay. we're going to have a stat later in the show and then it's the reaction to it and it's the amount of money in the adds that's spent against don aald

trump and hillary clinton and mark rubio. there's more ads ran against mark rubio than against hillary clinton. how do you react to that? >> oh yeah. >> more ads ran by other republican group in the primary directed at rubeio than money so far directed at clinton. sanders never ran an ad. >> that's in the country and that's the ruling class and the countriless and then i refer you back to the 2010 article by angela villo and it's one of the greatest political essays written and he laid out the entire issue of the class and ruling class. i will tell you right now that if you have it readily, it explain what is is going on and right now today 2016 and it's the cull that nation and that's what is growing movement for the

past 30 years, and i am very proud to be part of that and be on the leading edge. >> sam, i appreciate the fact that you're a professor and assign the homework. the panel starting to write down the name of this. >> you bet. >> you assigned homework. always a pleasure. >> thanks churks ack, and welco back. >> let me bring in the panel and susan paige and clarence paige and no relation with each other and both married with someone named paige and then super lawyer. ben, let me start with you and what you have seen out of trump in the last week as a republican. does it make you feel better that it's disciplined even if the message is pret atty aggressive? >> yeah, it's new people being in charge and proof of the pudding on how affective that it is is what you will see in the

senate and house races. so far the senate races are doing just fine. is it better to have a disciplined candidate as opposed to an undisciplined one? yeah, that's true for the entire ticket. >> yeah, this is something and i look at it and say that he has a problem already. beating her up on the health issues that there's no evidence on is not the best way. >> not just the gender gap but the sense of his own credibility. there's no evidence that he is correct. now, we would like to know the health of the candidates and the new york times. >> yeah by the way we have so little on both of them and unprecedented amounts. >> in modern times with the reports and the doctors are extensive. >> yeah, it's 2,000 and then -- >> it was a thousand pages. >> there's a reason why one

candidate does not. >> she is 68 and he 70. begin that we don't know any reason to think that hillary clinton's health is not fine. for him to hurl the charges at her over and over gain reminds me of the issue that you take a charge and make it even if it's discredited, it's going to have an affect. >> clarence, you raised the hand when he said ask people from chicago. it's all yours. take the floor. >> well, i feel like a mosquito. i have too many choices and sam was talking about a republican going out to meet the organizations and i have covered the last organization of the candidates at the naacp and operation push and they talk about elite and that's the best fortune 500. >> i thought that he made if

best. >> yeah, he is not coming from many organizations and he would know and they have been very friendly and they're friendly to trump. >> yeah, it's urbanly. >> there's a presidential candidate that you want to meet with. >> yeah any way. >> the war is over. >> that's the homicide rate and it was on fox news and then also has been raising the specter of hillary clinton's health and then also give me some and then for donald trump and then they're accurate ability this whole thing and that's the context and that's the whole controversy and i they really

what we have here and then to go out and meet the organizations and then met with the hispanics and seeing what is happening. i they he may mellow quit a bit and then if he talks to people and the communities. >> it does look like kelly anne made the case to them and that was the republican voters and if you dial it down and whatever you want to call it, immigration and yeah is that enough? >> yeah, it's the same approach that sam had and the truth is that the leadership is for the republican campaign and being able to go to groups that are not intuitively in line with the republican principals because it shows the leadership qualities. and you have to be able to have the credit blth bility to deal e people and then the speech is in

and of itself and getting back to the trick and then you have to acknowledge. >> we will see. it does feel like it's interesting one. and then that's between the seas and then clearing up the conclusion and then later after and then it's between the states governor and john bell edwards and that's going to be coming up later in the show. stay tuned. (announcer vo) who says your desk phone always has to be at your desk? now, with one talk from verizon... hi, pete. i'm glad you called. (announcer vo) all your phones can work together on one number. you can move calls between phones, so conversations can go where you go. take your time. i'm not going anywhere. (announcer vo) and when you're not available, one talk helps find the right person who is. hi, john. (announcer vo) so wherever work takes you, you can put your customers first.

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welcome back and it's one week away and it's the senate primary of the cycle and then first mark rubio's last minute launch campaign and then the florida business man carlos and then if he does, polls show him

leading the opponent patrick murphy and then it's another tougher rate for a five time and this is john mccain and he is and then it's the force and limb gags and do they worry. maybe. we follow this ahead and it's a good old passion tuesday and you want to be here when we cover it. the lubricants that improved fuel economy. even technology to make engines more efficient. what company does all this? exxonmobil, that's who.

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the e-mail and just in the last hour a new anal sysis shows tha half of the people outside of the government that hillary clinton met with gave money to the clinton foundation. they wasted no time responding to that news and mike pence saying, the fact that hillary clinton's official schedule was with the donors is further evidence of the pay to play of the state department. by the way you're not alone if the e-mails converge into a big mess that may leave you scratching your head and we're going try to get and explain the legal questions on both from my next guest. before we do, let me get to the bottom of where things stands. after weeks of pressure bill clinton announce that had he would step down and would stop accepting donations and there's

more to the storely. the clinton down dags and it also has the presidential library and then the partnership and that's come under fire previously and it was established by canadian and works to form. they say that if hillary clinton is elected they will be the own mgo and the clinton name will come off of it illegally. that's not determined if the which i thinks a changes are going to be made and then the alliance for the clinton foundation and the american heart association. that groups saying that they do not illicit founding and while it has it's own model no changes

are in the works and we will see. there are too small to fail and that's the foundation and tells us that because there's no clinton foundation and we receive the donation and evaluating if they can survive without the funds and then clinton sweden that's going to be shuttering all together. both of the foundation and e-mails play into the long standing narrative that the republicans bit up that hillary clinton cannot be trusted. the damaging is that the clintons play by their over set of rules and appearance of it. joining me now is richard and an to tone fattorney and served on th 9/11 commission. good to see you. >> good to see you chuck. >> okay. start defining the pay to play. you have been in this. what is the legal definition of pay to play? >> well, that means that someone

puts the arm on you in order to provide you with future access. you pay up and make a political contribution to so and sos campaign and then in the future if you want to talk about xyz okay, you're in the club. nothing that i have seen with the documents remotely resembles what you would call pay to play. >> now, is it legal to purchase access. i say it this way. you either feel strongly about this person or if you give a high dollar, you're look for the face time. now is that defining and is that a legal deaf situation of paying for the access? >> no.

if you're talking to me you're saying that there's way too much in the politics. i have fought for decades in the money and politics and now there's the fact of the supreme court and then the same group in the same case that's now attacking hillary. it's done so for the decades. >> yeah, i understand that. she has opened herself up to that. he said take her and bill clinton at the skbord foundation and there's no special treatment and the donor thinks that there's the access. >> can anyone talk about the foundation. >> i picked off all of this entities and does anybody give any thought to the fact and then it's the lines around the world and i'm not an expert in this. >> no, let me caution you.

james was spirited about this this morning and on the topic. you may appreciate it. >> i know people think that's a pretty good idea. >> shoept they have done that from the first. >> if you ask me, it's a political adviser. if he is a human being, i'm not sure. my sixth grade teacher someone is going to held over this somebody here or somewhere is saving people's lives. >> it seems that there's the legal issues and political issues. >> i looked at the news report and if you can show me that something is proper and then i look at that and i have not seen anything that comes close to

that. there's no pay to play and there's no droeb and what are we talking about here? we're talking abiliout look ove here and let's get off trump refusing to show his tax returns. >> this is not about -- >> there's a campaign manager that's deeply tie today an credible relationship with it and let's look at an e-mail. >> we want to live up to the highest of standards. >> of course you want to live up to the high standards. this is an unusual situation and i guess that and if you have this out here and it can be corrupted by the donors themselves. >> look chuck. as they said earlier in that and showing do you want an ex president to do the work like

this around the world or should they sit in the bathtub and paint a or the traportrait of t. >> you don't think that it's the right thing to do? >> no, i'm not the right guy to ask about that. >> okay. thanks for coming on. still ahead clean up the under way in louisiana after last week's devastating floods. was the president doing some politic political clean up today as he visited baton rouge louisiana. what they want to see done from the federal government. stay tuned. the progressive gi, at the supermarket buying cheese. scandal alert! flo likes dairy?! woman: busted! [ laughter ] right afterwards we caught her riding shotgun with a mystery man. oh, yeah! [ indistinct shouting ] is this your chauffeur? what?! no, i was just showing him how easy it is to save with snapshot from progressive. you just plug it in

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coming on mtp daily we have the fist comments following president obama's tour of the flood rav iged town and here is susan li. >> thank you chuck. the dow finishing up and then the stock sliding today over the companies epi pen price hike from $500 this year. the usda will buy $26 million of stockpile cheese after the dairy prices failed. it will go to food banks and pantries and then the housing market and then the home sale

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when disasters strurks that's one of the few times that washington does not get political. none of us on the block or first respoer respoernds cares if you're democrats or republicans. >> louisiana's two senators flanking the president and you saw them and bitter retiring as tens of thousands are cleaning up from the flooding and the president pulled out some high praise for fema in the state of louisiana. >> one of the things that i did in walking through each of the homes was asked have you contacted fema and filed and

they all said that they had been in touch with fema and acted professionally. some of them had already been out here for inspections. i could not be prouder of the work that fema has done. >> of course the visit is not without controversy and they praised the decision to make it a national priority a. the president did sign a federal declaration a week and a half ago of john edwards request for that preparation. he said that both the fema director and joining me now is the governor of louisiana and welcome to the show, sir. >> thank you chuck. happy to be with you. >> now, i know that you have been thrown into the little bit of the political hot potato campaign and having to do with the criticism on the right and having go on the time and then the left and then the photo op.

give me your take on both visits. >> well, first of all i don't have time for the politics right now. it's too distrack titive and i a full time job and trying to turn into a recovery. i will tell you that last week when i was in conversation and then it was finishing up the response and then it was coming after the recovery started and simply because a presidential visit taxes the ability to continue to do the search and rescue that was actively ongoing. when the flooding occurred and individuals that called for assistance and we called them to assist them and once that face is over, we searched every single house in multiple pari

parishes and i wanted to make sure that all of the intersections and the free ways were closed taoff and the visit was timely and there's good cooperation and then perhaps it would have been different. as it turns out mr. trumps visit on friday does not tax us in the same way. the visit was helpful and the spotlight came to louisiana where it should have been and the coverage from the national media quit frankly has not been what it should have been and that's large to do with the olympics and the campaign. chuck, the fact of the matter is that this was not a named storm or a tropical storm or hurricane that was being tracked for days. >> sure. >> it was historical. the president a's visit i think was great today and trump's

visit turned out to be a good thing as well. >> i flin mped a bit when i heard a president phrasing them in louisiana. >> i suspect that you got a little nervous with that too. >> you just praised fema this time. what are they getting it right and nigh you were not as involved and what is different than katrina. what have they got right this time? >> well, a week ago friday when the rain started, we had an individual from fema region six out of denton texas in the governor's office in the homeland security and they were embedded with us throughout and they helped me transmit a verbal request for a federal major declaration that the president granted within hours and then two days later he extended that list from four parishes to 20

and that's what we asked for. i have been able to see and sit and talk to the administrator on three days over the last ten and that level of coordination has proved valuable in terms of talking through the programs as we transition into the recovery and getting people into the shelters -- out of shelters and into the hotels room and back into the houses and it's just -- we have received tremendous cooperation and assistance and quit frankly the partnership has been terrific and had it not been, i guess that i would have fw been in a bigger hurry. >> yeah a lot of people don't have it because some of the areas hit were not considered high risk and plenty of the agents would have said you don't have to get it. how many people are not going to be able to go back to their homes without flood insurance, and what are you going do about

this? >> well, the small percentage of people and that's about 20 percent or so of the affected had home insurance. the fact is that they did not live in flood zones. they were not required to have it and by the way this is so unprecedented that it comes outside of the 100 year window. this is a once and a thousand event estimations and now so that comp la kaits things becaue the assistance is not supposed to make you whole and flood insurance is supposed to make you whole. we're going get the assistance that we can out of fema. we're going to work to get the community development and block grant assistance. we need it with the transportation that was heavily damaged and this is going to require the effort and there was

con con kreegs and then it's coming in baton rouge as well, and this is a big month long effort, and it's going require assistance from the administration and congress. >> on our show yesterday dr. t anthony head of nih said that he was afraid that it was going to set the state back and zika a problem and mosquitos. what have they recommended and what can you do to mitigate the problem? >> well, you know there's a civil lining in every cloud and the fact of the matter is that some of the assistance that we're able to get and the major declaration is assistance to pay for spring and mosquitos that we did not have beforehand. so with passing the bill that obtains the funding and zika and

mosquito control, we're going to have the funding available to us. we're going to have stagnant water all over louisiana now that the flood waters have reseeded. we're working to pinpoint the exact time that we have to spray. we're going to spray in multiple ways and we believe that this is something that i talk today the president about when i requested the verbal declaration and he call called me back to tell me that he signed off on it. we talked about mosquito control and zika at that time. since that time the assistance that we have gotten from the federal government is unfar leg unparallel. >> a lot and we're all watching and hoping and praying with you. thank you, sir. >> thank you very much. we're going to recover from this todd. >> louisiana and it's okay. louisiana always does.

always does. thank you, sir. >> thank you. still ahead poll numbers spell bad news for trump in unusual states and then the election ad. they have let that out of the bag and they're going to talk about that after the break. stay tuned. start yours with philips sonicare, the no.1 choice of dentists. compared to oral-b 7000, philips sonicare flexcare platinum removes significantly more plaque. this is the sound of sonic technology cleaning deep between teeth. hear the difference? get healthier gums in just 2 weeks vs a manual toothbrush and experience an amazing feel of clean. innovation and you. philips sonicare. save now when you buy philips sonicare.

welcome back and there's new state numbers to share with you today and the massive double dig

it lead in this swing state. 16 points in the one and the two way match up and clinton's lead grow in the poll to 19. i know that it seems high but as you know every single virginia poll has had her up double digit and the word team is in the number. there's a new poll in missouri and this shows trump and clinton tied. trump ahead by a point and missouri used to be a swing state and has noot been for a while. republican leans missouri is a toss up and virginia seems out of reach and you know that it's a trouble sign. up next on the lid another sign of trouble for trump from tv ads. we will be right back. real youi ? ? introducing otezla (apremilast). otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months,

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but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet? time for "the lid." i showed you these numbers earlier but let me show you again, in our file of missed opportunities for the republican party, perhaps. there was more money so far spent on negative television ads directed at marco rubio during

the primary election than has been spent overall in tv ads attacking hillary clinton in the general election. just process that. by the way, almost all of that anti-rubio money came from one group. of course, the jeb bush right to rise pac. the panel is here. susan and clarence page, the pages. you can't make up that number, can you? >> no, you really can't. that's not a good sign. >> i guess hillary clinton has to ask herself what would her numbers look like, her numbers are terrible just from media coverage of her campaign. >> yeah. so why isn't she winning by more? >> what i'm trying to understand, very quickly, i will get you to rebut, but let me ask you this. the media apparently is in the tank for hillary clinton. if only the media is covering hillary clinton because there are no attack ads against hillary clinton. >> it is a sign of donald trump's strength with core american voters, right, that he's still standing after that kind of onslaught. like six or seven times what's

been -- >> then you look at hillary clinton's numbers, what would they be without it? >> yeah. definitely deeper trouble. this is an unprecedented situation as you know to have two such unpopular candidates running against each other. but remember what donald trump said about any publicity is good publicity, the old hollywood line, it's true. donald trump gets all negative publicity but it's still publicity. it still works for him. to a certain point. >> i have this theory the negative tv ad is dead. >> for trump, it is. >> repetition is about the only thing you can do using candidate's own words maybe still works. i have skepticism about what works and what doesn't. i wanted to get, you are a democratic leaning lawyer, you are a republican lawyer. the law's the law. you define pay to play for me and does the clinton foundation meet that standard? >> first of all, it's now come out that more than half the private sector people -- >> reported at the top.

>> that's a shocking number. that's a shocking -- >> that her meetings, half of them were clinton donors. >> that's at least a sense you ought to investigate more. pay to play, all state officials are covered by pay to play so if you are part of the financial sector -- >> you say all state officials. viewers may be confused. state department? or state -- >> state officials. this is a pay to play analogy. if you are a state official and -- >> like a governor? >> or state legislator, anyone who can give away state business in the financial sector, you can't give money to them directly from the financial sector. the law, the securities and exchange commission says you can't give to a foundation that they control either because you can't do indirectly what you are not allowed to do directly. so that would be the legal founding for going after and taking a greater look at the clinton foundation. >> they are not covered by those

laws. >> before you make me get black's law dictionary, does the a.p. story constitute a trigger, you are looking at it like if you're the justice department, is that enough to investigate? >> so you would look at other prosecutions that the justice department under the obama administration has brought and there are a whole series of them involving officials. bob mcdonald being the most recent. the justice department reversed 8-0 by the supreme court but nonetheless, that was sort of smaller beer than what you are talking about here. >> not only that, the ted stevens one also. trying to prosecute political behavior has actually been a struggle for prosecutors. >> this is in fact how we finance our federal elections, right? who contributes to federal office, federal office hopefuls, it's people who want to be able to get a meeting with them if and when they're elected. >> we can't ever clean up this process. >> tom delay comes to mind.

>> there's a line. are we criminalizing politics or criminalizing criminal behavior? punishing actual criminal behavior? it's actually more murky than people think. >> what's interesting about this situation, if they recognize it's improper to do if she becomes president, why was it okay to do when she was secretary of state? >> how do you -- >> and predictable. you could have predicted this from the first day. >> we know how this is going to end. >> more e-mails in october. >> shutting it down or handing it off to someone else. they will wait until every newspaper editorial board in the country calls on them to do it. thank you all. (announcer vo) who says your desk phone always has to be at your desk? now, with one talk from verizon... hi, pete. i'm glad you called. (announcer vo) all your phones can work together on one number. you can move calls between phones, so conversations can go where you go. take your time. i'm not going anywhere. (announcer vo) and when you're not available, one talk helps find the right person who is. hi, john. (announcer vo) so wherever work takes you, you can put your customers first.

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that's all for tonight. nice to be back. i'll be back again tomorrow. more "mtp daily." "with all due respect" starts right now. more scandal for hillary clinton. what does she do? she goes on late night comedy show, jokes about opening a pickle jar. here's the question. where's the media? why no "60 minutes" investigation into this? >> tonight on "with all due respect" a special investigation. one woman. one nation. one pickle jar. was the lid loosened? >> i would have trouble with a pickle jar, too. >> were there even pickles inside? >> the pickle test doesn't put all these questions to rest? >> i must say, i must say, i have trouble o