that's all for tonight. nice to be back. i'll be back again tomorrow. more "mtp daily." "with all due respect" starts right now. more scandal for hillary clinton. what does she do? she goes on late night comedy show, jokes about opening a pickle jar. here's the question. where's the media? why no "60 minutes" investigation into this? >> tonight on "with all due respect" a special investigation. one woman. one nation. one pickle jar. was the lid loosened? >> i would have trouble with a pickle jar, too. >> were there even pickles inside? >> the pickle test doesn't put all these questions to rest? >> i must say, i must say, i have trouble opening up a can of

pickles. >> what kind of pickles are we talking about? tonight, all your pickle questions answered. has she crossed the line? a special half sour power hour of "with all due respect" begins now. the investigation of dillary clinton. >> only one thing you can say about that. #vlasic classic. we will try to keep things kosher tonight. obama tours a flood zone. first, donald trump's rigged system road trip stops in austin, texas where he's expected to reprise his speech, part of a campaign tactic to shift the focus of this race on to hillary clinton, her e-mail practices and the fresh round of

controversy around her family foundation. here is trump talking about the latter topic last night at his rally in akron, ohio. >> the clintons made the state department into the same kind of pay for play operation as the arkansas government was. now, think of what happened back then. the amounts involved, the favors done and the significant number of times it was done require an expedited investigation by a special prosecutor immediately, immediately, immediately. >> today, the a.p. reported that more than half of hillary clinton's meetings with people outside of the government while she was secretary of state were with individuals who gave money to the clinton foundation in some way and yesterday, brought a new batch of troubling state department e-mails released by the conservative group judicial watch that show messages between bill clinton's long time aide doug band and hillary clinton's

long time aide huma abedin, including requests for meetings between the state department officials and people who have donated large sums to the clinton foundation, large sums in many occasions really large. the campaign insists there is no evidence of policy being altered as a result of these meeting requests but the documents have raised questions about whether special access was granted to folks who gave to the foundation. in terms of substance, alex, my question for you, how troubled are you just as a matter of good governance in terms of substance, then what do you think the potential political fallout of this unfolding controversy is? >> in a moment when the american public is particularly attuned to the idea that government is not representative of the people, that it is rigged, that there is cronyism, this could not be coming at a worse time. independent of hillary clinton, bill clinton, huma abedin, this is something that is objectively i don't think very good for american transparency and potentially for the democracy. as it concerns clinton, i am

flabbergasted that this is a problem they have not seen coming for years given the fact that since even 2013, 2014, 2015, the activities of the clinton foundation have been at least criticized by the media in a sort of peripheral way. this is something in the way that you want to get your tax return all buttoned up before you run for president, you would think you would want to get your foundation activities on the straight and narrow. >> look, first of all, let's say this. we have to give this. the clinton foundation does wonderful work around the world. it's done great things. one of the ways in which the clintons and their acolytes and fans of the democratic party try to distract and misdirect is say oh, the clinton foundation, why are you attacking the clinton foundation it was noble work in africa. it does. it does all those things. those aren't the issues here, though. the issues here are about access of really really rich people to an inappropriate ways to people in policy making positions. it is clearly the case that if there is ever a quid pro quo that gets established where a donor asked for something and

the state department changed foreign policy on that, it's going to be explosive. we don't have that yet. but there is still something seedy and seamy about the way in which doug band is sending e-mails saying this guy is one of our really good friends, try to set up a meeting. sometimes the meeting gets set up and sometimes it would have been set up anyway but it's not the way anybody in either party should want business to be done in our government. >> you can't get past the number the a.p. is reporting today, that 85 of the 154 people from private interests who met with secretary clinton while she was at the state department were donors to the foundation. those numbers are a problem. >> yes. let's be clear about this. clinton met with representatives of at least 16 foreign governments that donated as much as $170 million to clinton charities. you know, again, i'm not -- there's no quid pro quo that's been proven. no quid pro quo has been asserted. but this is what the obama administration was worried about when she became secretary of state and it now has the

potential of being a huge distraction at a minimum for her going forward. >> since shaking up his campaign, donald trump has been largely disciplined in his new quest to keep the pressure and focus on hillary clinton which is to say if you are grading him on a curve of trump scale gaffes, he hasn't done anything to completely sideline his own message in more than a week. john, if trump keeps this up, what can the clinton campaign do to flip the script? >> la, la, la, la, look over there, look up there, around the corner. she's going to give a speech on thursday about the alt right. there's a lot of fodder. there's a lot to work with. the trump campaign is full of people, there have been news reports the last couple days about people on the trump staff who have said, who tweeted kind of terrible things, that have played into the worst caricature and fact about some of the bad parts about this trump campaign. there's going to be a lot of misdirection. the clintons are really good at misdirection. and again, there's merit to it. the trump campaign is a messed-up operation. but they will try to distract as

quickly as possible and focus on that. >> can i just say, there was a massive "new york times" piece on sunday that detailed trump's own web of connections to foreign governments, foreign banks, the bank of china, his $650 million in debt, his shady or his complex web of financial transactions involving foreign entities undisclosed especially since we have very little information from trump. that seems like a very good opportunity for the clinton campaign to play defense. >> we will talk later in the show with some of our guests about trump's extraordinary lack of transparency related to his business dealings, his taxes, his health, all that stuff are ripe targets and on top of everything else, you got putin. everybody who has amnesia seems to have forgotten paul manafort, ukraine, all that stuff which even more troubling than anything going on with the clinton foundation. again, the clintons have things to say. look over there is what they will be saying.

>> we didn't even get to talk about the pickles. >> oh, the pickles. after more than a week of flooding or more than a week after the flooding in louisiana started, president obama visited baton rouge where he toured the disaster zone and seemed to defend himself for not showing up in a state a little bit sooner. >> sometimes once the flood waters pass, people's attention spans pass. this is not a one-off. this is not a photo op issue. this is how do you make sure that a month from now, three months from now, six months from now, people still are getting the help that they need. one of the benefits of being five months short of leaving here is i don't worry too much about politics. >> the president may not worry too much about politics but the political season, so the question of louisiana and its disaster has become a matter of political controversy ever since the disaster sort of started unfolding. donald trump who himself visited baton rouge on friday, has been

hitting barack obama and hillary clinton for not going to the flood area sooner. democrats by contrast say that what matters here are the actual relief efforts put in place by the federal government, not the optics. so again, alex, it is political season, it's a campaign. politically speaking, who's getting the better of this argument right now? >> look, i think the president is probably underexaggerating when he says he doesn't really care that much. he hasn't cared about politics and optic force a long time. when there were calls for him to visit the texas border when there was a crisis of undocumented children and women coming, streaming across the border, he refused to go then. this is part of the obama playbook. i think he's winning. he continues marching forward. his favorables are rising. he will be a very effective surrogate for hillary clinton. i don't think this is something she will have to address on the campaign trail beyond the next few weeks. >> i want to say, you mentioned the texas border thing. go back further to an even bigger political, the longer unfolding political drama, the bp oil spill.

back in june 2010, 50 days after the binning of that spill, thatcatastrophe, you had barack obama who did an interview with matt lauer on nbc's "today" show that exemplifies what his attitude has been about this question of substance versus optics. take a look at that. >> they're saying here's a guy who likes to be known as cool and calm and collected, and this isn't the time for cool, calm and collected. this is a time to spend more time in the gulf, i never thought i would say this to a president but kick some butt. >> i will push back hard on this because i think that this is just an idea that got in folks' heads and the media's run with it. i was down there a month ago before most of these talking heads were even paying attention to the gulf. a month ago i was meeting with fishermen down there standing in the rain talking about what a potential crisis this could be. and i don't sit around just talking to experts because this is a college seminar.

we talk to these folks because they potentially had the best answers so i know who's ass to kick. >> there's the president invoking a rare public profanity. that to me at the time, i remember thinking i had a lot of sympathy for barack obama's rationalism, which is doesn't matter how much i yell and scream or empathize, it doesn't plug the hole in the ocean floor any faster. at the same time, american people look to their president for a certain kind of leadership. what's interesting to me is how he stuck to that and now these many years later, it seems like at least in this case right now when you got the governor, the obama critic as lieutenant governor all saying stay away, mr. president. >> i will give you an ish on that just because i was an intrepid reporter covering the bp oil spill and was in the briefing room every day when robert gibbs was asked about it. i do remember writing that the administration quote, had its boot on the throat of bp.

now, the president may not have been using that language but there was absolutely a clarion call for indignation from this white house and it was delivered by the press secretary. so you were getting sort of both prongs of the fork if you will. >> i'm not sure -- >> we are getting the indignation and the cool, calm collected. >> i come to a fork in the road i always take the fork. >> you have robert gibbs on one tine and barack obama on the other. with that awkward metaphor. up next, trump's immigration plan sounds awfully familiar. we will discuss that and so much more. er binge-watching. soon, she'll be binge-studying. now she writes mostly in emoji. soon, she'll type the best essays in the entire 8th grade. today, the only spanish words he knows are burrito and enchilada. soon, he'll take notes en espanol. get back to great with the right gear. from the place with the experts. office depot officemax. gear up for school.

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welcome back. we are learning a little bit more about donald trump's tbd plan on how to handle the roughly 11 million undocumented immigrants currently in the united states. based on what we have heard from his interview on the o'reilly show last night and from his campaign manager on fox news this morning, trump's new proposal sounds not very new.

>> i just want to follow the law. what i'm doing is following the law. first thing we're going to do if and when i win is we're going to get rid of all of the bad ones. we have a lot of bad people that have to get out of this country. we're going to get them out. the police know who they are. we don't do anything. they go around killing people and hurting people and they're going to be out of this country so fast, your head will spin. we have existing laws that allow you to do that. as far as everybody else, we're going to go through the process. what people don't know is that obama got tremendous numbers of people out of the country. bush, the same thing. lots of people were brought out of the country with the existing laws. well, i'm going to do the same thing and i just said that. >> obviously it's a very complex issue. i don't think he can put it in a sound bite or rush through a speech let alone a plan. when mr. trump says let's enforce the laws you may say i have heard that before. it's such a novel concept to people in washington. they want to layer more laws and public opinion shows the vast majority of americans want to enforce the laws, not just add

more laws. >> okay. this sounds a lot like the current immigration policies that we have in place. >> surprising, huh? >> what's going on here? what does trump stand to gain? >> here's the deal. apparently trump's proposal, he still says he's going to build a wall. that's not obama. obama is not going to build a wall, hasn't built a wall, no wall under obama. but trump's deportation plan now seems to be the same as obama's except obama does it terribly and he's going to do it terrifically. >> humanely. >> yes. also more tough and bigly. so i don't know. all of this stuff, we discussed this a little bit yesterday, i think there is -- the can of kellyanne conway we just saw there is very strong right now in these areas. she is freaked out about hemorrhaging white suburban women in battleground states and she's trying to figure out some way to get trump in a place that will reassure some of them who would otherwise might be

inclined to vote for trump but are right now kind of freaked out by the sense that he's a xenophobe, racist, nativist and all that. >> i think this is the reason he has a lot of people from the base who are not white suburban women supporting him. it's this insane ballet, tight rope ballet trying to sort of give them the whistle that it's still going to be the harsh deportation policy he's been talking about, citing dwight eisenhower, but reassuring moderate republicans it's actually not going to be the harsh deportation thing he's been talking about the last nine months. how do you even do that? >> i like when he told bill o'reilly, to his credit, o'reilly said you said before you liked operation wetback, the eisenhower plan. he said well, bill, i talked about that, i said it existed. i wouldn't say that i was for it. i wouldn't say i was going to do it which is a lie, just to be clear, because he did say that's what he wanted to do. >> we read it on the show yesterday, in fact. >> i think, you know, in the world we now live, pivots are harder for everybody. doing the pivot is hard given

the life of video and it's especially hard for this guy given the things he's said. all right. when we come back, what hillary clinton was up to late last night after these words. ♪ using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the fruit... veggies... and herbs needed to create a pop-up pick-your-own juice bar in the middle of the city, so now everyone knows... we have some of the freshest juice in town. see what the power of points can do for your business. learn more at chase.com/ink this just got interesting. why pause to take a pill?

or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction and the urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas for pulmonary hypertension, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis and a $200 savings card hillary clinton: i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message. vo: in times of crisis america depends on steady leadership. donald trump: "knock the crap out of them, would you? seriously..."vo: clear thinking... donald trump: "i know more about isis than the generals do, believe me." vo: and calm judgment. donald trump: "and you can tell them to go fu_k themselves." vo: because all it takes is one wrong move.

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if we didn't have facetime. >> you do that a lot? >> all the time. >> have you considered using facetime instead of e-mail? >> actually, actually, i think that's really good advice. >> that was hillary clinton looking amazingly comfortable and relaxed on jimmy kimmel last night. joining us is bloomberg politics' will leach. will, this is stuff you study. i want to talk about that. what did you think? >> she is so much more relaxed than she used to be. this is something she has obviously worked on. there is an infamously terrible appearance on the colbert show in 2008. she has really gotten so much better than that. >> let's take a look. >> are you telling me there's no one in this theater who can fix the mess we're in? >> i can.

i can, stephen. about the screen. how are you feeding this? through the router or the aux bus on the switcher? try toggling the input. >> okay. >> i just love solving problems. call me any time. >> really? >> sure. call me at 3:00 a.m. >> okay. so why is that infamous? what's bad about it? then we will talk about the kimmel thing. >> it played to all her weaknesses. she's trying to play to a crowd which is not something she's generally good at. she's comfortable with a one-on-one interview. she's trying to be funny rather than letting comedy come to her. and too, she's worried about getting a message, remember the whole message at a time was after a debate was i can fix it, i'm the fixer, i can take care of america's problems. comedy is by definition not supposed to be on message. that was clearly the problem

with that. it was obvious she went to colbert and said we'll be on your show if we can have these specific talking points. you can see her clearly stumbling over them. >> she did a little 3:00 a.m. phone call. >> also, she's scripted there versus non-scripted. >> i want to look at kimmel now. let's play kimmel and talk about why it's so much better. >> -- the one hand, it's a serious chance for americans to tune in and if they haven't made up their minds, to try to make up their minds so i want to take it seriously, i want to talk about what i think we can do and how important it is. but you've got to be prepared for like wacky stuff that comes at you and i am drawing on my experience in elementary school. you know, the guy who pulled your pony tail. >> the pony tail puller. but that meant he liked you, really. you have to think maybe donald trump has a secret crush on you.

are you in good health? >> well, this has become one of their themes. take my pulse while i'm talking to you. so make sure i'm alive. >> oh, my god, there's nothing there. >> there's nothing there. >> okay. so that's obviously better. like in the sense i'm watching and thinking that's better. but just unpack why that's better. what is she doing differently there that makes it so much more effective and natural? >> i think she's clearly not trying so hard. she's being more reactive rather than proactive. she loosened the reins a little. part of that, as someone who doesn't like to do a press conference, she's more comfortable in this situation letting the professional take the lead. one of the things she did really good this year, she was on broad city, a comedy central show that's very very funny and she went on that show and really just kind of let -- she just blended into the atmosphere of that show. she didn't go in and i'm hillary clinton and here are my talking points, i like to get across to the broad city viewership. she let them be funny, then kind

of you served as their comedic prop that allowed them to be in on the joke rather than trying to force the joke. >> can i hazard a wild theory? >> i love those. >> hazard away. >> donald trump has created a sort of atmosphere of unscripted real talk that i think is really unique to american politics. i wonder if you think in some ways the unbuttoned clinton is a reaction to that. she's obviously not playing in the same territory as trump but he's created a sort of atmosphere of i think off the cuff unscripted that maybe she's picking up on? >> yeah. also, he's an easy guy to react off because all you have to do, her goal now is to just be a normal human being. that's her goal. >> normalcy. >> i'm a sane, regular person. you might not want to have a beer with me, but look, i have grandchildren, i can laugh at a joke. also worth noting she toned down the laugh. some of the criticism she got about that was a little unfair but clearly she heard it. the laugh is not as loud.

that joke about the guy pulling the pony tail is a great joke. that's exactly how a lot of people see donald trump, as a prn in elementary school that would pull your pony tail. that's a terrific line that i suspect it would not be the last time we hear that line on the trail. >> there's an element where people think she's not good in extemporaneous or spontaneous situations. i find her better in these situations now than she is like on "saturday night live" where she's scripted but the jokes are scripted. >> these are not -- certainly you have been on these shows before, they have a broad idea of what they will talk about but they are not strictly scripted. it works out well for her. the pulse thing is a great idea. take my pulse as we go along and she continues on with kind of a relaxed answer. that's good. whereas a script, it says you have to be here, you are now pretending to be the bartender talking to hillary clinton. in a funny sketch on "saturday night live." it was funny because of kate mckinnon. i think that's the key us recognizing, and listen, you have donald trump who is like em

the center of everything, i'm the one pushing all of this. for her to take a step back, relax, you guys make the jokes, i will be the one that's cool for being in on the joke. it's working well for her. >> in this studio you are the center of everything. you are sort of the donald trump of the studio. the great william f. leach. >> good hit. good hit. >> thank you for coming on. coming up, the mysterious majestic mike murphy with us. some say it's a calling. some say they lost someone they loved. many say it's to save lives, as many and as often as possible. there's a hundred reasons why someone becomes a doctor. but at md anderson, it's because there's nothing, and we mean nothing,

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cable television's on its way out since the cable networks other than fox are largely not making money, since the internet and the fact that most people get their news on demand from

their hand-held device, broadcast television is definitely done. abc, nbc and cbs will be out of business by the end of the decade and cable is on its way out because of the expense of the infrastructure. you can go and watch info wars.com online today, they simulcast with 100 radio stations and there will be about 4.5 million people watching. what does it cost to get on the internet? nothing whatsoever. that is the wave of the future. >> well, well, well. that was long-time trump adviser roger stone delivering a media sermon yesterday on miami radio about whether trump has plans to build a media empire after the election. joining us now is the honorable mike feldman, democratic strategist and former traveling chief of staff to vice president al gore, and coming to us live from los angeles is the great mike murphy, republican strategist who led jeb bush's super pac right to rise.

it is good to be bookended by both of you on this fair tuesday. mike feldman, let's start with you. what's going on there with roger stone talking about the demise of cable news? is he laying the groundwork for trump news network? >> you're not going to find me arguing that the demise of broadcast television is near for a number of reasons. but yeah, look, it's clear that there is a backup plan. it's clear that there are a number of people, probably right up to the top of the campaign that are thinking about how to harness this core group of activists and constituents who have rallied behind donald trump and my guess is that could take on a number of forms. >> mike murphy, here's my question for you, okay? so we have seen donald trump's behavior, you are famously never trump. you think trump's a disaster. we see his behavior and all the controversies he's had, right? we now see him surrounding

himself with steve bannon, roger ailes, sean hannity, media barons, all. is trump actually trying to win this election or does he have some longer term end game that's more hollywood than washington, d.c.? >> well, quickly before i answer that, i have to do the ironic note to file that my old friend stone was predicting the end of television on a.m. radio. there's nothing older than that. so everything may change but it changes slower than people think, the hand-held device is the appliance of the future. to your question, trying to tell the future of trump is a risky business because it's so erratic but he certainly appears to be at least better at constructing the next great racket streaming business than a winning presidential campaign. he now has the pieces that could lead to something akin to what glenn beck did where he traded his own pay fee streaming

network, still attracting a relatively small audience, trump may do a little better, but generating a lot of revenue. i don't know if the trump campaign in the end will turn out to be a heist for money rather than a presidential campaign but there's no question the presidential campaign is having real trouble. >> mike murphy, we are hearing that news reports today that donald trump has upped the rent on all of his trump properties, charging the campaign more money now that the campaign is largely being funded by small donations and not in fact, trump's pockets whach . what do we make of that? >> they say because they are expanding their staff, they need more square footage. i would think they should hold themselves to a particularly high standard because between the airplane and renting space from his business, there's a lot of self-dealing going on here. i think it is not a coincidence that trump decided to up his overhead the minute he got his hands on an income stream from donors rather than just his own wallet, though he does still put his own money in. >> here's my question. we have talked a lot about, i'm going to get to hillary clinton in a few minutes, but let's just

talk about these things with donald trump. has not released his tax returns, has disclosed almost nothing about his health records, we have got debt up the wazoo, indebted to fwabank of china, $650 million in debt c conceivabl conceivably. he's the least transparent candidate of our lifetime. will he ever start to pay a price for that, in your judgment? >> i would argue he's paying a price for it. we are having this conversation now on a week when the conversation, at least the last week when the conversation could have been about secretary clinton and about e-mails and about the foundation, he's largely stepped on that message with his own actions and his own -- and questions about his own campaign and certainly the viability of his campaign. so i think he has been paying a price. i think just as there's a sense out there that people aren't being told the full story, we are now getting down to decision mode of the campaign and people are looking at both candidates

trying to figure out who could i sleep well at night knowing they were my president. i think these things do add up to part of that, people know who they're voting for so i don't think he's gotten away scot-free. to mr. murphy's point, he may be undergoing an audit which is preventing him from releasing his tax returns. i would be very interested to read the s.e.c. audit on this campaign when it's said and done. i'm sure people are spending time on that and preparing for that right now. >> i guess i ask both of you this question. it's something john heilemann has been bandying about the office all day. is there such a thing as a pivot in politics in this day and age? >> yes. i think you can evolve a bit but you cannot be the man of 1,000 faces. part of the problem trump has is he's pivoted so many times, when is he not pivoting? he's like a real-time pivot machine. he pivots on an hourly basis depending on the crud he's reow reading. now, it is in his political

interest to be less terrifying on the immigration issue but if he ever starts to gain traction with that pivot of the moment, he will pay a price among his base voters who are very nativist. that's the dance, the song that brought him to the dance. i think he's checkmated himself on that. what i believe, you will see lots of pivoting optics, the occasional kinder adjutant. they will start putting soccer moms behind him at the rallies but the core trumpian message never changes because it reflects trump and his impulsiveness and twitter, the unfiltered way he can bleed out noise whenever he wants to is something i don't think any campaign management team can put in the box. >> i am not going to let you answer the pivot question because we are running short on time. i want to get to hillary clinton, given your partisan allegiance. you are a hillary clinton supporter, not affiliated with the campaign. how do you think -- how big a problem do you think the foundation now is for her and how well do you think they are handling it thus far? >> it's a problem, it all kind of adds in to a sense people

have about whether they can trust and believe in her. these are things they have been dealing with for a long time. as we know, there's a cottage industry, political industrial media complex that has been focused on this for a long time. it's interesting to note the trump campaign has started to focus on it too for a change and they have had a day at least clear to do that. i'm sure mike's wondering how with 17 candidates in the race, they nominated the one who actually donated to the clinton foundation which is an odd thing when you think about it. but look, it's something that they have to manage through. don't forget, by the way, i should say i think the foundation has done incredible work. okay? it's hard to deny it. i hope that people focus on that a little bit. it is also unusual that the foundation which normally would occupy a certain -- there would be a certain protocol around it for a certain president than have a spouse who became

secretary of state, is running for president, people wore different hats, but i think it's a political issue and is being soon in the political context. people watching the campaign now with the mute button on and also as people who have to decide who they want to lead this country in the fall, get that fact. >> we got to leave it there. mike murphy and mike feldman, thank you both for joining us. >> m & m. who doesn't love an m & m? >> check out mike murphy's podcast, radio free gop. >> oh, it's good, too, boy. smoking hot. >> there's the future right there. we will turn from the state of trump to the fourth estate which we don't talk about enough. degeneration, amd we came up with a plan to help reduce my risk of progression. and everywhere i look... i'm reminded to stick to my plan. including preservision areds 2. my doctor said preservision areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula that the national eye institute recommends

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triple cheddar stuffed sliders. sold! we aim to cheese! kraft natural cheese: we make cheese for how you love cheese. who in the world would be better to talk about donald trump's love/hate relationship with the press than our next guest, jim rutenberg from the "new york times" who has a piece out this week about sean i am not a journalist hannity and the advice he's been giving the trump campaign. thanks for coming on the show. >> glad to be here. >> sean hannity's role in the campaign is what? >> let's just say he's not only a very supportive television host, he's also an advice giver. he would reject the adviser label, though not entirely. he admits that he has a lot of interaction with the campaign, with the candidate, with people around the candidate, his son don jr., that he's a kind of

full service supportive tv host who is not a journalist. >> if you called him a trump whisperer, would he reject that? >> i think he would like that. i think so. >> what sort of confuses me is there is so much talk on the campaign trail usually from republicans about liberal media bias. here you have a moment where two former news heads are active advisers to a political campaign and someone who is currently on tv is advising a political campaign, yet there's no discussion about that. >> i used this before but the tail that wagged the dog is now the dog. >> yes. like a large dog. a very large dog. >> do you buy any -- we just talked to murphy and feldman about this. do you buy at all the con sfespy theory that trump knows he's going to lose the election but between ailes, bannon and hannity, he's assistisetting hip to run a media empire? >> i buy it halfway. i believe he wants to win the presidency. i believe that. i have no reason not to aside

from little tea leaf things. nothing definitive. that said, he's had amazing success, he's drawn ratings and we heard him complain i draw the ratings to cnn, why aren't i getting a cut of that money or give it to charity, i think he said at one point. i don't doubt that he's interested in making a media play. >> to what degree do you think the trump support he has been getting on breitbart has been explicit in the newsroom? >> explicit in the? >> that it's been an editorial sort of brief people are familiar with. you know, the support for those policies and that kind of political campaigning. >> i think at breitbart it seems, as if it was pretty explicit after the michele fields incident. the breitbart reporter was manhandled allegedly, really roughly by cory lewandowski, his campaign manager, and breitbart sided with the trump campaign at the time over its own reporter. >> so if, yes, i think that's true. so if it looks increasingly like trump might want to make a media play as we get closer to november, does there come a moment where fox says whoa,

whoa, whoa, whoa, we're now propping up a potential competitor? like let's get out of here and cozy up with hillary clinton. we have seen cozy up with hilla, is that what you said? >> we have seen it before. >> fox was created specifically to be an answer to what was seen as liberal bias in the media, wasn't it? >> it was. murdoch at one point, there were stories about this back during her last senate campaign, there was some friendliness. i don't know, because the fox audience, part of it loves trump and when megyn kelly fought with trump earlier this year, that was a problem with segments of their audience. i don't know. it's intriguing. i wouldn't rule it out. but again, they are running a business and need to keep their own ratings. >> gawker is dead. there are so many obits and reminiscences and eulogies that

one of our staffers is installing gawker blocker. should we care? >> the fourth estate? >> is it a good thing, bad thing? >> even the fifth estate. we should care on two levels. one, gawker was kind of part of the media -- for we media denizens, it was the modern iteration of spy magazine, it was irreverent. it went too far, a lot of things it did offended me, sometimes a lot. that said, it kind of stood for all out internet journalism. much more importantly is a billionaire put it out of business through lawsuits. people say how can you defend gawker, who's next. >> with all due respect, i was a long time tween reader of spy magazine and gawker was no spy magazine. >> i will agree, it was the brattier younger brother. >> second cousin twice removed. >> you basically take the notion that gawker may have been irresponsible and done horrible

things but gawker did not bring this on itself. the story here is a ruthless billionaire put a publication out of business, end of story. >> even if gawker did bring some of it upon itself, a billionaire putting a media organization out of business because he don't like what they're writing though he says i wouldn't do it to you "new york times" or "the washington post." what's the oligarch from russia coming over? probably a lot of things. >> or not. maybe not. >> i have a word of advice for you. several words. one sentence. don't tick off peter tiel. coming up, trump movements and what it moons for life after the election. don't let dust and allergens get between you and life's beautiful moments. by choosing flonase, you're choosing more complete allergy relief and all the enjoyment that comes along with it. when we breathe in allergens, our bodies react by overproducing 6 key inflammatory substances.

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we are still 77 days from the election but our next guest is already assessing what

trump's canned des means for the future of the republican party. here to talk about the future of trumpism, karen tumulty who joins us from the "post's" newsroom in d.c. it seems from the piece that you and bob costa wrote that trump's legacy in the republican party is predicated not just on whether he loses but the margin by which he loses. talk to us a little about that. >> well, yeah. if there was any doubt on the part of a lot of sort of traditional republicans last week that what trump has created is going to endure after trump, win or lose, i think his decision to bring in a new campaign chairman who represents the entire anti-establishment media environment put that to rest. so now the question for a lot of them is if -- they're assuming he's going to lose. if he loses big, they think it

may repudiate sort of everything that he has stood for. that might lay the groundwork for the party to do sort of a traditional rebuilding effort. but if it's close, you know, trumpism is not only going to endure but there's going to be a major, major battle within the party essentially over who is to blame for this loss. is it the people who nominated donald trump or is it the never trumpers who didn't get on board. >> so there's obviously a downside risk to trump losing big, which is that they lose, the republicans lose the senate and lose the house conceivably. right now in washington, d.c., among republicans you know, is there currently more fear that trump wins somehow or that trump loses? >> well, i think again, among the sort of -- the much hated inside the beltway republican establishment, i think there is -- they would like to see him sort of if he's going to lose, do it cleanly and so that there

is not a lot of doubt as to what was to blame there, but they don't want it to be so big that it takes down a lot of senate candidates as you said. most republican incumbents are running better than trump in their home states but if the bottom flat out drops out, he's going to take a lot of republican incumbents with him. >> before the appointment of steve bannon to the trump campaign and roger ailes as an informal adviser, i talked to a couple of never trumpers who believed, this is months ago, that the trump coalition would somehow evaporate or otherwise, would morph into the broader republican electorate. does anybody think that is even possible at this point? >> you know, i think not, and what they would argue is that this is not ever going to be a share of the electorate that can get to 51%. but the fact is, it has gained a

lot of market share within the republican party and you know, donald trump himself is not going anywhere. so he will probably still be on the stage as well. >> you quote ed rollins in your piece where he talks about how the party, the republican party became the chamber of commerce party and lost its appeal. it was no longer the party of small business. that goes to one of the key questions here which is the question of populism. trump has unleashed these forces of populism. my question is, they are very powerful, is there anyone in the republican party who imagines a future in which the republican party is populist, more populist than's been over the past few cycles but not nativist, xenopho xenophobic, sometimes racist. is there a way to incorporate the good parts and leave out the bad parts? >> you know, it would depend i would depend on interestingly enough a lot of substance, a lot

of policy. how do they navigate, for instance, free trade. how do they navigate immigration after this election and also, how do they navigate a set of policies that have become kind of so dogmatic in their conservatism, so wedded to things like tax cuts that largely benefit the wealthy that they don't really feel responsive to the everyday concerns of people on main street. that i think, too, this frustration with the party that seemed to be benefiting everybody else is one of the things that fueled this. >> when you look at donald trump, a lot of people will say the groundwork was laid by someone like sarah palin who rose to the national stage on a sort of -- in an unlikely character for national republican politics. what of folks who say donald trump's policies could actually win a greater role in the american democracy were it not for donald trump. if there was a better messenger in 2020 or 2024, maybe this is a

winning platform for the republican party. >> it would depend not only a better messenger, but i think it would also have to sort of shed the kind of nativist, xenophobic aspects of it. donald trump's policies, there is a part of it, an american nationalism that has a very very deep appeal to a lot of, large swaths of this country. >> karen, thank you as always. thanks for that great piece. we'll be right back. allyson felix needs to... ...be quicker than everybody. to win at home, she needs to be quicker than... allyson: chloe! that's why allyson felix uses bounty. the quicker picker upper. allyson: chloe! allyson: chloe! bounty is faster and 2x more absorbent than the leading... ...ordinary brand, and faster than chloe too. allyson: come on chloe! bounty the quicker picker upper

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will you be here tomorrow? >> if they let me in the door which is always a question. >> we haven't done anything to drive you away? >> i haven't disqualified myself. >> we say good-bye, you say what? >> i say sayonara. "hardball with chris matthews" is next. hillary's guest list. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews from washington. donald trump has opened up a new front against hillary clinton, going after her ties to the clinton foundation during her time as secretary of state. while newly disclosed e-mails show donors getting what appears to be special access. now today, the associated press reported late today that more than half the people from inside or outside government, rather, that hillary clinton met with as secretary of state were people who donated to the clinton foundation. more than half.