for indiana and portions of ohio as we head into the afternoon and evening hours. very dangerous situation there. chris? >> raphael miranda, thanks so much. i'm chris jansing. "mtp daily" starts right now. if it's wednesday, cracks in the clinton foundation. tonight, the clinton conundrum as trump ramps up his attack to the clinton foundation. is it a question of ethics or optics? >> hillary clinton doesn't have a conflict of interest with charitable work. >> plus, trump's awkward pitch to african-americans and hispanics that may have nothing to do with winning the votes of african-americans n hispanics. >> i'll be able to make sure that when you walk down the street in your inner city or wherever you are, you're not going to be shot. >> and gunfire and explosions in kabul. the latest on the deadly attack

on the american university in afghanistan. this is "mtp daily," and it starts right now. good evening. i'm chuck todd in washington. welcome to "mtp daily." donald trump's campaign has made it clear they believe they have found clinton's weak spot. trump doubled down on its attack lines on the clinton foundation at a rally in tampa earlier this afternoon. >> hillary clinton ran the state department like a failed leader in a third world country. it's run like a third world country. she sold favors and access in exchange for cash. she sold favors. she sold access. and wait until you see when it's revealed all of those people. wait until you see ultimately

what she did for all of those people. wait until you see. it's impossible to tell where the clinton foundation ends and the state department begins. >> well, a lot of innuendo in that. we'll unpack it all here. 76 days to go until e-day. trump's latest ammunition is an associated press analysis that purports to say that more than half of the people outside of government who met with secretary clinton when she was secretary of state were donors to the foundation. all day today, clinton campaign has been on damage control on this report pushing back on the analytics used behind it. >> by our count, there were over 1,700 other meetings she had. she was secretary of state. she was meeting with foreign officials and government officials constantly. so to pull all of them out of the equation, cherry pick a small number of meetings is

pretty outrageous. >> let's get to the heart of this. what is at issue here is a reprehensible attack on a charity. more than half the people in the world receiving aids drugs received them from the clinton foundation. so, no, the clinton foundation will not be completely shuttering its work even if clinton wins the presidency. if any american voter is troubled by the idea the clintons want to continue to work to solve the aids crisis while hillary clinton is president, then don't vote for her. >> we'll hear from a clinton campaign adviser in a few minutes. this is all innuendo. no pay for play has been proven. no smoking gun has been found. like many of these clinton scandals, it looks bad. it appears sloppy, even careless, and, of course, could potentially be worse if even one charge that donald trump made ends up being true. and it's just one more instance of the clintons appearing to push the boundaries when it comes to money for themselves or raising money for their causes.

that narrative goes back all the way to the white house coffee fund-raisers in the '90s and continues up to clinton racking up paid speeches literally weeks before she announced her candidacy for the presidency. you could argue the clintons have always had a blind spot when it comes to money. as we said, the clinton foundation announced it plans to stop taking foreign and corporate donations if hillary clinton is elected. if they think they have to change the way the foundation operates if she becomes president, that begs the question, why doesn't it need to change now, or why didn't it need to be changed when she was secretary of state? joined by nbc's andrea mitchell. host of "andrea mitchell reports." and that brian fallon clip was with you. he was angry at this. and i know they -- that has been their pushback all day. what else are they saying? >> in fairness, the state department, the john kerry state department has not always come to her defense. most people close to clinton

would acknowledge. the state department has said that everything is above board. these meetings are meetings that any secretary of state would have. the communications, the e-mails show that there are times when huma abedin says i'm not comfortable with this and doug bend will say don't do it. there's no quid pro quo, and, in fact, according to the citizens united case and most recent case which is the case involving governor mcdonald, according to the supreme court -- >> buying access is legal. >> right. >> whether you like it or not -- nobody likes to hear it, but it's legal. >> they have not proved the quid pro quo. but as you point out, sloppiness. they signed memorandum of understanding that senators lugar and john kerry demanded before they confirmed hillary clinton, which was signed for bill clinton by bruce lindsey, their longtime aide and valerie jarrett for the obama white house saying there would be total transparency and complete

disclosure of donors. the problem is that everything has been -- the ap spent three years with a foia lawsuit. the real criticism of the ap has been their analytics only showed partial calendars because they don't have them all. they've been dragging them out of the state department. >> they aren't been released. >> exactly. that said -- >> you want to see all the calendars? >> you want to see everything. >> that's why they have themselves in a bit of a box. they say it's not complete. give us all the calendars. >> they don't know if they want to do that. >> this is where it's damaging. i got a call from a long time very close, strong clinton supporter in one of the states, an elected official. and out of the blue, this is someone who i talk to around primary days and such saying, hey, what's going on here? what about these 15,000 e-mails? is there going to be more stuff? what do we have to worry about? this is no longer a beltway problem. this is becoming part of the

narrative. we're seeing it in the polling where it's following her around. she is fortunate that donald trump has so many other issues. but they should want to clean this up. >> especially now if trump is suddenly getting it together and is going to laser focus only on this issue. >> steve ban on is no accident. this is the thing breitbart was able to do. they know where -- when you start to hear donald trump this week saying not only that this is the clinton foundation and pay for play, but this is the kind of stuff they did in arkansas, you know right away that's steve bannon, somebody who knows what buttons to push. >> you have "nightly" to get ready for. thanks for joining me. joining me is joel benenson. let me ask the question that i ended my top with, which is, why does the clinton foundation and the clinton campaign believe changes have to be made if she's elected president but not while

she was secretary of state or not while she's a candidate for president? >> i think as you are reporting and andrea's just indicated, there was a statement of agreement, a memorandum of understanding between the administration that asked her to be secretary of state, as you know the history, three times. secretary clinton turned down president obama. and they -- >> and one of the reasons -- one of the concerns -- >> let me -- >> was the foundation, no? >> i'm in my first answer. let me finish. >> okay. >> i think the reason why the foundation's work continues is because of the humanitarian work it's doing around the world. there are 11 million people who are receiving -- half the people in the world receiving aids medications in the developing world are getting them through the clinton foundation that negotiated these prices with drug companies to save these lives. the decision was made this could be done above board. the reason the ap has this story and you used the word sloppy earlier. they're coming under critique

about their sloppy reporting and their sloppy headlines that have been inaccurate. i was a journalist. they tweeted yesterday a false statement. we asked them to take it down. when i was a journalist, one of my editors, one of my first facts, in journalism school if you got a fact there, you got an "f." they reported a sliver of data. they tweeted out something inaccurate. they're refusing to correct it and change it. so i think, you know, they have -- it's incumbent on them to look at all the facts. >> the people that secretary clinton met with, there were over 2,000. they pulled out 85 names, many of whom, as secretary of state kerry apparently said today, i wasn't aware of it, these were people that secretaries of state have been meeting with for years. some of whom, like muhammad eunis, a nobel prize winner who won a gold medal from congress from republicans and democrats.

are we saying she shouldn't have met with this man? >> you are a big part of the obama campaign. i remember in '08 the concerns and the concerns in the obama white house about how to create more of a chinese firewall with the foundation. and while i know this agreement has come up, there were many who thought it wasn't enough. and that was back in '08. i guess my question is, why are we waiting until the last week, finding out what the clinton foundation is going to do? why not have had a better plan in place two years ago, three years ago, four years ago knowing that she was going to be an active political player? >> because i think your assumption is wrong. i don't think two, three, four years ago there was an assumption she'd be an active political player. i think that, you know, obviously, she left the department of state presuming she'd be doing other things. she wrote her book and did some charitable work. i didn't know her well then. i think more importantly is you

wind this down. you can't be presumptuous that you're going to be elected president of the united states. >> nobody is saying wind it down. let me ask you this, joel. why not have -- why not go to the gates foundation. there's a lot of work that people at the clinton foundation -- i've spent a lot of time with many people talking about it. i work at the foundation. obviously, plik politics can pa lot of things. it's in the best interest of the foundation to take it out of this and, you know, maybe hand it to the gates foundation, another foundation to run. >> andrea mentioned bannon and breitbart. nobody, democrat or republican, raised a question about former president bush, neal bush, secretary president bush's brother, remaining on the board of the points of light foundation because these foundations are charitable organizations that are helping

people hoaren't getting help from other places? what is going on here? we are so politicized that we'll listen to fringe elements like steve bannon. we've had family members doing charitable things. >> no doubt, but joel it was democrats -- people working for president obama -- that were concerned of the optics. that were concerned and as dick lugar said, it's not about the good intentions of president clinton and secretary clinton. but the person giving the money may think it gives them something regardless, and that's a bad thing. >> the fact is the obama administration and secretary clinton and the foundation reached an agreement of understanding. let's talk about transparency n oipness and go down the block from your studio in new york where donald trump owns a building a short walk from where i'm sitting. and he's in debt from banks in

china, from goldman sachs. that is a clear conflict. this man is running for president and he's saying he'll just give the buildings to his kids. he is in debt to foreign governments, foreign banks. hasn't disclosed his tax returns to the american people. a four-decade tradition -- >> there is no doubt there's a massive -- >> if there's a problem here with transparency, and who has conflicts of interest? i think mr. trump who has paid zero in taxes in at least four years, donald trump needs to release his tax returns. let's see about conflicts of interest if he wants to lob charges from someone who has been the most fact-checked, incorrect spewer of falsehoods in presidential history. you know that's true. independent fact checkers. he opens his mouths and falsehoods come out. >> but this is not about being better or more transparent than donald trump. isn't this about living up to the highest ethical standards, period? >> hillary clinton has -- >> they do this back and forth.

who is -- >> she has released 33 years of tax returns. she has released a four-page letter from a doctor, written in medical language actually, not colloquial language, that gives a full picture of her health report. not a two-page letter that asserts that his doctor can assert that he will be, unequivocally, the most healthy person ever to be president of the united states. it's a joke. let's talk about transparency and honesty and candor in releasing this information to the public. this information that we're talking about today, we're also talking about because it's been released. and let's look at the whole record. 85 people out of more than 2,000 people she met with, you know, they claim are donors. and then, well, she introduced one of them at the kennedy center dinners and his wife was seated with her at a table. she was the head of the kennedy center. she introduced them before they spoke. to have a story in journalism, as you know, chuck. you are a journalist.

you can't have a and c. if you don't have b, you don't have a story. you certainly don't have one fully reported, accurately funded and paints a correct picture of what transpired. >> you believe enough has been done, what the clinton foundation is doing is going to make that this isn't going to be a problem when she's president, and this will not be a political problem for her in six months? >> no, there are additional steps -- there are additional steps they've said they'll take. i think donna shalala. i think the clinton global initiate sieve having its last session assembling people and thought leaders on how to tackle some of the world's global challenges. so we've got two months until she's elected president. whatever remaining details people need to look at, they'll look at and consider carefully. what they won't do is certainly stop the good work that the foundation does, whether we're talking about saving the lives of people with aids, getting

healthier food into the schools of our children here in america. what they don't support for those people to become consequences of what is an overheated political charge coming from extreme fringe groups feeding donald trump things he can go out and spring from the hills. >> you want to pin this on trump. there have been a lot of people concerned about the foundation and what the optics, democrats and republicans, in fairness, joel, on this one. you can pin a lot of stuff on the trump campaign but the foundation has been something that's been the concern of even many democrats. >> i think what the foundation is is an organization that most people say, look at the work this thing has done. the price of aids drugs to help people in the world would not have been driven down if it wasn't for the clinton foundation. so are there steps the foundation is taking going forward as we get closer to the election and steps have to be made if hillary clinton becomes president, which i believe she will win the election. those steps will be put in place. >> all right, joel benenson, i'll leave it there. >> good to see you, chuck.

coming up, donald trump's very awkward new pitch to minorities. what bloc of voters is he really trying to shore up? we'll dig deeper into the meaning behind this new message. stay tuned. soon, she'll be binge-studying. now she writes mostly in emoji. soon, she'll type the best essays in the entire 8th grade. today, the only spanish words he knows are burrito and enchilada. soon, he'll take notes en espanol. get back to great with the right gear. from the place with the experts. office depot officemax. gear up for school. gear up for great. hillary clinton: i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message. vo: in times of crisis america depends on steady leadership. donald trump: "knock the crap out of them, would you? seriously..."vo: clear thinking... donald trump: "i know more about isis than the generals do, believe me." vo: and calm judgment. donald trump: "and you can tell them to go fu_k themselves." vo: because all it takes is one wrong move.

donald trump audio only: "i would bomb the sh_t out of them." vo: just one.

search and rescue efforts still under way in italy after an earthquake overnight. 120 killed. more than 300 injured. the 6.2 earthquake struck just after 3:30 a.m. local time. tremors felt more than 100 miles from home. more than 40 aftershocks reported. the town of amarice. the mayor said the town isn't here anymore. many of the centuries old

buildings were reduced to rubble. president obama spoke to the italian president by phone earlier today to offer condolences and assistance. we'll update you with any new developments as they come in. more "mtp daily" after this. anncr: want feedback that helps? verified reviews. another reason to join angie's list for free. this new ac guy is not that good. no he's not. anncr.: need a job done right? search top-rated providers on angie's list. join for free.

to the african-american parent, you have the right to walk down the street of your city without having your child or yourself shot. and that's what's happening right now. to the hispanic parent, you have a right to walk outside without being shot. >> and i think we're going to do great with african-americans and hispanics. i say vote for trump. vote for trump. >> trump won the republican primary. his complicated history with minorities. now trump says he's the obvious choice for minority voters.

trump is willing to soften his vote on immigration. his campaign says he's planning urban and minority outreach events. tonight he's in jackson, mississippi, a town that is 80% african-american. we'll see if the audience that he speaks to is. trump insists he's not flip-flopping but his policies and rhetoric are all over the map fueling rhetoric this is about reassuring white voters he's not a racist. let's try to untangle this web. here's trump then versus trump now on deportations. >> how do you deport 12 million? >> okay, so let me -- you do it because they're here illegally. you do it. there certainly can be a softening. we're not looking to hurt people. we have some great people in this country. we have some great, great people in this country. >> here's trump then versus now on obama's immigration policies. >> we have a president that is grossly incompetent, that doesn't know what he's doing.

he's allowing this to happen. he wants it to happen. >> what people don't know is that obama got tremendous numbers of people out of the country. i'm going to do the same thing, and i just said that. >> trump wants a deportation force to help round up undocumented immigrants but he's now dismissing the yfd detention centers. he told me last year on "meet the press" that he'd deport entire families if necessary but now says his plan is very humane. trump has had a series of run-ins with the african-american community during this campaign. before it he questioned the president's birthsplace. he criticized the black lives matter movement, supported strong voter i.d. rules and he's been calling the inner cities war zones. let's bring in amy and alfonso

aguilar, the executive director of the latino partnership and ruth markis with "the washington post." all right, alfonso. i have to go to you first. what do you make of trump's new outreach, or do you call it outreach? >> it's certainly outreach. let's look at the polls. if you look at the fox poll on latino voters which is probably the worst, he's getting about 20% and he hasn't done any outreach to hispanics, until now pretty much offended them. he's at 20%. i think what he's looking at is improving his performance with latino voters in key states he needs to win. i think he can become more competitive. he's not going to win the latino vote in those states but can become more competitive to win those states. on immigration, all over the place. i've been kritsical of what he's said in the past about immigration. to be fair, from the very beginning, he did say that

everybody would have to leave, and the good people, meaning those without criminal record, would come back. so if he adjusts that's plan so people can regularize, legalize inside the country, i think a lot of latinos would respond favorably to that. that's on immigration. and if he does focus on the economic message with latinos, they -- >> he didn't do an economic message. he did a crime message. that seemed off key. >> so what you're saying, if he completely changes his plan in a way he made very clear, no, absolutely, you need to leave. yes, there will be a deportation force -- >> ann coulter wasn't happy with those comments yesterday. >> that's not changing -- completely changing -- >> of course it's changing. >> we can say the same about hillary clinton. she says she's against trump building a wall. hillary clinton voted for the secure fence act that calls for the building of two walls, not one wall. double layer fence.

let's be honest. they both changed their minds on immigration a little bit. >> i really think that's apples and oranges but we can move on. i'm really curious about what you think about his message about whether you should be able to, like, feel safe at this table without being shot. this notion that african-americans and hispanics all live in the kinds of neighborhoods that donald trump and actually us don't live in. >> but this is not about winning hispanics and african-americans. >> right. >> the biggest -- kellyanne, good pollster, done this a long time. >> this is your problem. suburban women think you are a racist. >> what suburban women are most worried about and i've been sitting and talking to a lot of them, the number one issue they are concerned about is his temperament to be commander in chief. this one woman said, i don't like it. these are swing voters who don't particularly like hillary clinton either. i don't trust hillary clinton on

terrorism but i'm terrified donald trump will get us into world war iii. looking less like a person who is bigoted is a step in the right direction for these women, but does it make him temperamentally fit to be president? i don't think so. that's the level he has to hit with those women. there's a song by tanya tuck ea little too late to do the right thing now. >> would you sing it for us? >> i'd like to, but i can't. the autopsy the republican party did in 2012 is we have the messages to go to these voters in the african-american, hispanic community but our tone is critical. our tone is critical. if our tone is bad, they won't get the message. >> during the primary, i was critical of mr. trump. i'm not defending his comments. i don't think he expects to win the latino vote, or the campaign, but by softening his stance on immigration he can be more compet tough in states luke

record. mitt romney lost by only 1% florida. if he does much better with white voters, if he brings people out that haven't participated in the process before in florida, and he gets to 30%, 35% of latino voting, he could -- >> the math is there if they can get that high. it's just hard to imagine he gets that high. >> today there's a poll from the florida atlantic university. and it has trump ahead by 2%. and with latinos at 40%. remember, florida -- >> method logically does not meet nbc standards, for what it's worth. >> for latinos, immigration is not the only issue. immigration is not the number one issue. >> but it gets -- you guys are coming back. stick around. programming note. rachel maddow will have a one on one with a person i just name-checked here. trump campaign manager kellyanne conway. the latest on the deadly attack on kabul's university.

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coming up -- trump's campaign schedule has been taking him to some very unusual and perhaps places that are wastes of campaign time. find out more about it in a minute. first the cnbc market wrap. >> markets closing lower. the dow falling 65. the s&p shedding 11 and nasdaq sliding 42. the health care sector logging

its worst day dropped down by the ongoing epipen pricing controversy. hillary clinton says the price hikes are outrageous. overall, a low volume day as investors wait for federal reserve chairwoman janet yellen to speak on friday in jackson hole. that's it from cnbc. first in business worldwide. (announcer vo) all your phones can work together on one number. you can move calls between phones, so conversations can go where you go. take your time. i'm not going anywhere. (announcer vo) and when you're not available, one talk helps find the right person who is. hi, john. (announcer vo) so wherever work takes you, you can put your customers first. introducing one talk-- another way verizon connects your business better. learn how at onetalk.com.

hillary clinton: i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message. vo: in times of crisis america depends on steady leadership. donald trump: "knock the crap out of them, would you? seriously..."vo: clear thinking... donald trump: "i know more about isis than the generals do, believe me." vo: and calm judgment. donald trump: "and you can tell them to go fu_k themselves." vo: because all it takes is one wrong move. donald trump audio only: "i would bomb the sh_t out of them." vo: just one.

the strongest possible terms. an attack on a university is an attack on the future of afghanistan. >> some brand-new information just in to nbc and msnbc on that attack on the american university in kabul, afghanistan. one terrorist is dead and another still on the loose. possibly inside, the three-story main campus building. there are more students that could be holed up in that main building. special forces have moved in and are also involved in the search. police first responded to reports of an attack on the american university after reports of gunfire and explos e

explosives around 7:30 p.m. local time. the university is the only private not-for-profit co-educational facility in afghanistan. it's an american symbol in the region. summer session was in full swing and night classes were under way when gunmen approached the compound. the u.s. state department is in the process of accounting for embassy personnel and american citizens. for more, let's hear from our chief foreign correspondent richard engel. what do we know about the attackers, and what do we know about the security of this university going forward and what kind of security was there? >> so just first on the latest information you just reported. 30-plus students and staff being evacuated. they've been cleared from two minor buildings on the campus that include the library and cafeteria and some administrative offices. that's a good sign.

the bad sign is there is still this ongoing situation at the main building. the main campus building a three-story building where it is believed, according to a senior afghan official who we're talking to from the scene that at least one gunman is still inside, and students and staff and other people who may have been on campus are barricading themselves inside classrooms, inside any place where they can find shelter. we spoke -- nbc news spoke with two students in two different locations who have barricaded themselves inside classrooms. and as of about 45 minutes ago, they were still hearing gunshots. so this is not over. american forces responded to the scene. we've been told they're there as an advisory capacity. they are helping to coordinate this offensive. >> who are the first responders in a situation like this? >> the first responders would be the afghan police and afghan

security forces. but kabul is not a very big city. and when you talk about an attack on an american institution, the american university in kabul where there are american professors teaching there, then it was clear the american military, which still does maintain a small presence in kabul got involved. they talk about american forces staying on the perimeter, but they don't talk about what american special operations forces may be doing, the kind of secret troops that are involved in missions. the delta force, navy s.e.a.l.s and others. >> it's obvious this would be a western symbol to go after. my question to you is, is this more likely, we know that there is some -- the islamic state has been getting some foothold in afghanistan. is it more likely the taliban, islamic state or something else? >> it's hard to know. there has been no claim of

responsibility. and just two weeks ago, an american professor and one of his colleagues at this university were kidnapped after they left the campus. and there was no claim of responsibility for those kidnappings. the two main suspects would be isis or the taliban. isis is, however, primarily focused, or its biggest stronghold is in the east of afghanistan, and the militants have been pounded over the last several weeks where their strongholds have been bombed by american forces. so it is possible that isis would want to carry out some sort of revenge attack, but kabul isn't really an isis stronghold. the taliban is a much bigger presence here and the main suspicion at least among those i'm speaking to is that this is a taliban attack, but no claim yet. >> richard engel, thank you, sir. the strategy behind donald

trump's campaign swing through nonswing states. it's all about fund-raising apparently. stay tuned.

got some new numbers out of north carolina where it might not be donald trump dragging down the ticket. hillary clinton with a thin lead over donald trump in this monmouth poll, much smaller than our own poll showed it two weeks

ago. now the senate race. monmouth has richard burr up just two points ahead of his democratic challenger deborah ross. numbers flipped in ours. same sort of narrow lead though the other way. pat mcrory is down nine points against attorney general roy cooper. more than half of likely voters say they plan on voting for mcrory's opponent. it may have to do with mcrory's support of the so-called bathroom bill. many say it's been bad for the state's national reputation. that restricts local governments from passing anti-discrimination ordinances, including one in charlotte that allowed transgenders to use the bathroom of their choice. you look at what's going on with republicans and think is it a trump effect? may be a mcrory effect going on in that state as well. "the lid" is next.

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i am so happy to be back in the great state of texas. thank you. thank you. the people of texas are proud. they are independent, and they are free. >> that's was donald trump last night in austin, texas, or as rick perry calls it, the democratic leaning state capital. the blueberry in the tomato soup. and trump -- tonight trump has another rally in a deep red state. this one in jackson, mississippi. very uncommon for candidates to spend time holding campaign rallies in safe states after the convention. take a look at trump's campaign stops since the convention. in addition to deep red texas and mississippi, trump has held rallies in deep blue c connecticut. let's compare that to mitt romney's mostly swing state events.

joining me is texas-based republican strategist matt mccoveiac. i know part of this is trump enjoys rallies more than fund-raisers. trump is not the first politician to hate fund-raisers. god bless him on that front. are these effective? good ideas? bad ideas? does it seem like -- you are a republican strategist. do you think, why are you doing this? >> what's interesting is i think there's two schools of thought. one is don't waste time in red states doing anything other than fund-raising. let fund-raising drive the schedule until labor day and let the battleground state drive the schedule after that. no matter where trump is, he's going to get coverage. a rally in austin gets covered by the cable news networks and can still drive a message. when he was going off script creating controversies and problems, the rallies were more of a problem. he's been more disciplined. he almost has a stump speech he's basically delivering. my point is time is precious.

75 days left. he'd be more in my mind, more productive taking a nap, doing debate prep, policy briefing ofs on the phone raising money, anything other than a red state rally in austin, texas, or jackson, mississippi, with 75 days left. >> i get he's there to raise money and wants to do that. let me ask this about the texas republican community. it was, especially the elites, the leadership was pretty split, splintered. cruz folks, bush folks and the rank and file being for trump in many cases. is the political elites in republican texas behind trump? >> they are, for the most part. the state gop chairman has been very aggressively for him. our lieutenant governor dan patrick introduced him at both fund-raisers in texas yesterday. greg abbott has been recovering from an accident that happened a few weeks ago. he was at the burn unit in san antonio. wasn't with mr. trump.

had a number of congressmen from central texas at the fund-raiser in austin. for the most part, the party is behind him. we have a safe state here. romney won by 17 points. mccain by 11. this state is not in play. trump may win by eight or ten points but it's not really competitive. >> what's the political health of ted cruz. he was going to recruit rick perry to challenge him in a primary. what is the -- what would you give the political health republican scorecard here for ted cruz? >> i think part of this will depend on how trump does. if he loses by a narrow margin, some will blame cruz for that narrow loss and for the ramifications of a hillary clinton presidency. if he loses by four points, five points or more, they'll not blame cruz and trump will not have that much political power going forward. there's no room to ted cruz's right politically. you'll be running from his left in a republican party primary in a midterm year in texas. i just don't see much of a path for rick perry or michael

mcauliffe or anybody else unless cruz's numbers are really bad 12, 14 months from now. >> good catching up with you, sir. my schedule yet for sunday. i'll let you know what we have. in time. >> i know you will. good to talk to you. the panel is back. amy, alfonso, ruth. i want to switch gears and talk about the clinton foundation. we haven't talked about it. is it optics? something looks baghdad bad. we follow letter of the law. why do you do business with this guy? it is always complicate. >> i have a column that might be posted even as we speak on this topic. it says two things. first of all, this trumpian notion we immediately need a special prosecutor. you touched on this on your show

yesterday. crazy. >> you have to have proof. there is no proof. >> and you need a read that cat for a criminal act. once again, how many years have we been going through this with the clintons. and it was clear from the start when you had both the foundation which does good work and the state department which does important work, that those intersections were potentially dangerous and potentially toxic. instead of building a big wall they kept it going and they created problems. by holding back the e-mails or having a situation that resulted in holding back the e-mails, now we're getting them now. and it is a bunch of -- if they're not terrible wounds, there's not a lot of quid for the quo. >> to be fair, the fbi called it sometime ago for the doj to do an investigation.

>> we don't know that 100%. we know the fbi was saying there was enough evidence to have circumstantial evidence. >> the problem is they're not being responsive. somewhere hillary clinton? >> i know why they're not responsive. they're not responsive because they think no matter what we say or do, it is never enough. this is always the answer i get. why don't you just cut this off? hand to it bill gates. let him run it. let him run the foundation. and they say, then that won't be enough and that won't be enough. i'm always told very candidate driven. she believes it is never enough and she won't do it. >> remember when we watched the jeb bush campaign and we said he looks like he looks like he's in the 20th century. the party has moved, the campaign infrastructure has moved. he hasn't gone with it. the hillary clinton campaign seems sort of trapped in the 20th century.

yes, none of this stuff is actually illegal. and it is what people have done in the past. but it is not the way things work. wave level of transparency. we have moved beyond that. especially at this time. when we have historic lows in terms of trust for every institution possible, you have to put yourself at a level of transparency that was never possible. never -- you didn't have to do it. >> right now we can't say that she did anything illegal. that's why we need an investigation. why do you have to investigate someone? we don't know if she did anything illegal. we don't know if you did anything illegal. do we do an investigation? you have to have some evidence. >> something for criminal activity. >> you have so many people that gave money to the foundation having access to the secretary

of state, i mean, i think that should raise some red flags. >> it should be an ig red flag. you look it a. an ig might say, did they get anything in the meeting? nobody can find anything. >> the same thing with the e-mails. she said she handed over all the e-mails. now we have 15,000 additional e-mails. >> as i understand it, they are e-mails that she was not able technologically to dredge up from her serve per came from other servers outside what was in her control, you know. >> now we're -- >> they did search term words. >> that's a different set of e-mails. i think these 15,000 e-mails are separate from the 30,000 that she, deleted and should have searched better and everything else. i want to go back to something that you said. i think that the problem isn't that they're still in the 20th century. pits they didn't actually handle things well back in the 20th century.

and they don't learn the lessons. they are subjected to a higher standard which may be true. the result of that is that they don't guard against that reality. and they keep doing it. yes, they can make that claim. nobody tried to hold coffee clatches in the white house. it is pushing the envelope in both directions here a little bit. >> and you know, you compare it to other people who have not pushed the envelope in the same way. so that there are, you can say, we're held to this different standard. yeah, but i haven't seen other candidates push it. >> in fairness to them and their argument, trump, i'm sorry, i want to know. what are we going to do as a citizen? if he is president of the united states hour, do you prevent film using to it help his businesses?

>> i think it is a totally legitimate -- >> what is your plan for divestment or something of your interests? >> i'll stick to hillary for now. >> she was blaming colin powell for something he didn't say. >> that was the biggest error of the week. making an enemy of colin powell. thank you. we have some out of this world news coming up. soon, she'll type the best essays in the entire 8th grade.

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before we go, today may be known as the day we found out the biggest news story in the world. maybe a whole new world actually exists. scientists have discovered an earth-like planet orbiting the star near toast our solar system. so there. when we destroy the world, maybe we have some place to go. "with all due respect" starts five seconds late. with all due respect to warren g. harding, you are being challenged by a guy who angst little something about domes. >> it will be like the tea pot dome scandal in the 1920s and maybe bigger.