i'm frances rivera alongside louis burgdorf. "morning joe" people of color os votes, not as human beings worthy of a better future. >> it reminds me of that great saying that maya angelou said when someone shows you who you are the first time, believe them. donald trump has shown us who he is and we ought to believe him. it is thursday, august 25th, welcome to "morning joe." how is everyone doing? we have mike barnicle. >> legendary. >> legendary. >> now they say it. >> veteran does not replace legendary. >> co-host of "all due respect"

john heilmann and political writer for "new york times." nick. >> what are you laughing about over there? >> there is a word i would like to say, legendary for you. there's a word i'd like to say for you that i shouldn't say. >> i bet we have the same word. >> i bet we do. how are you guys doing? >> never better. >> never saw this coming. boom, this is what i believe. and i will stand on this principle until the day i die. >> you always thought of him as a firm, ideological candidate. >> last night fox news aired the second part of their forum. >> this was really interesting with donald trump and in it he seemed to back away from his firm insistence, which began in july of last year. >> you can really understand why under withering attack that all

undocumented immigrants need to leave the country or get out. >> you're out. i have a police force. >> deportation force. roll it. >> you also seem to be indicating there might be something other than they have to go back. am i reading that right? >> we have to follow the laws of our country. we have to follow the rules. >> that means they go back. >> i'll ask the audience, you have somebody who is terrific who has been here -- >> 20 years. >> right. can we go through a process or do you think they have to get out? tell me. i don't know. you tell me. >> i think they should go through a process that maybe give them a chance. clap. how many think they should go? >> but do it, again. you have somebody who has been in the country for 20 years and has done a great job and has a job and everything else. okay. do we take him and the family or him or her and send them out and

they're gone or when somebody really has shown. you know, it's called like the merit system and they did break the law in the first place. do we throw them out or do we work with them and try to do something? okay, ready. number one, work with them. number one, throw out. number two, we work with them. number one. >> number two. okay. >> this is like a poll. there's thousands of people in this room. >> but you're saying if somebody can prove that thanksgiving been here and proven to be a citizen. here's the big question, though. no citizenship. >> no citizenship. let me go a step further, they'll pay back taxes and they have to pay taxes. there's no amnesty as such. there's no amnesty. but we work with them. >> jeb bush, your immigration

stand has prevailed and the republican party and i know that is not just cold comfort to you. that is jeb bush's position, by the way. >> isn't that barack obama's position. >> sxits marco rubio's position and jeb bush's position. >> it's going to take me an hour to diagram that sentence and figure out exactly what the position is. i am pretty sure i heard echoes. >> as such. he has solved it the same way. >> game show politics. >> marco rubio and jeb bush did with back taxes and making sure -- what did he say? good people? terrific people? >> did they move on to other issues in the same format? >> marco rubio and george bush "family feud" or whatever the show is. "who wants to be a millionaire." trump's new position stems in contrast to what he said on multiple occasions over the past

year. >> can you ask him a question about deportation force. that's what happened on our show in november. ask him the question instead of anderson co anderson. >> are you going to have a massive deportation force? >> you're going to have a deportation force. and you're going to do it humanely and you're going to bring the country and, frankly, you have excellent, wonderful people. people that have been here for a long time. >> people will face ramifications. how are you going to pay for this? >> very expensively? >> are they ripped out of their homes? >> they're coming back from where they came. that's the way it is supposed to be. but they can come back but they have to come back legally. they can come back, but they have to come back legally. >> that was back in november when we weren't asking him questions. that's right. i wasn't asking him anything at

all. >> no, not at all. >> never asked him a question. >> never asked him a question about vladimir putin late last year. never did that. anyway, deportation force. deportation force in november of last year to family feud amnesty. >> oh, my gosh. >> in august of this year. welcome to the new edition of "family feud amnesty." >> this is the pivot. or wakes up at night and thinks who can i ticked off in my own base who i haven't ticked off yet? >> ann coulter is going to have to burn all her books and mark levin was calling this already -- >> his head exploded. >> i don't know if it did. >> trump just adopted jeb bush's gang of eight position. >> everybody who was on the stage with him. he has all their positions into one jumble.

>> as such. >> it's really pretty incredible that he has taken jeb bush and marco rubio's position. >> so, yesterday trump, again, stated his support for ending birth rights citizen shcitizens. his path brings him closer to the positions of the primary rivals he attacked for offering amnesty. bush adviser charles spies agrees tweeting path legalization looks like trump finally read george bush's book. ohio governor john kasich strategist and john weaver who wrote this. who needs a policy shop when they can just flip and take john kasich positions and, personally, i think he'd let the audience make the position for him. ted cruz's campaign director of research says vindicates the convention speech and what ted cruz warned what happened during

the course of the campaign and republican strategist liam donovan if we voted for rubio we'd get an squishy on immigration and they're right. >> what is the impact here? i mean, this looks like pretty significant. >> this is a moment where we're doing right here at this table is the broader thing that's going to happen now in the country and it raises the question that we were talking about for a little while which is how easy is it in our modern world to actually execute a pivot. you know, pivots are and the transition from a nomination fight to a general election or traditional things and presidential politics. but when you've taken positions as extreme as donald trump have taken and they're on videotape, as we just demonstrated. probably videotape out there him

praising, everyone in the world will remind the country of where trump was before will people not now question the sincerity of the pivot. >> sincerity in donald trump. they don't go together to the voters, at least. they don't matter. i could get you a video of him being for iraq, against iraq. for libya, against libya. for partial birth abortions. against partial birth abortions. for gun control, against gun control. you have evangelical supporting him despite the fact that he has said some remarkably liberal things when it comes to social issues. mike white, and ann coulter says this is the one thing that he can't flip-flop on. but why is this any different that trump supporters than anything else? because what they're going to say is that he's doing this. he's doing this to win. i don't think, none of this really matters to trump supporters. he can do whatever he wants to

do. to answer your question, how difficult is it to pivot? when your ideology and beliefs are grounded in jell-o, it's fairly easy to do it. just the other day, yesterday, i think, when he started out the day trying to asoftsoften the s and by later that afternoon he was on the stage saying we're going to build a wall. >> here's the whole thing. let's not spin. i'm serious about this. let's not spend too much time talking about this because he could change by noon today. or he could change in a tweet 15 minutes from now because, remember, he tried to soften his position on guns. and then later in the afternoon he was criticized. >> i don't think it's changing positions. i don't think he had any. i don't think he knew enough about them. >> i agree. what you're seeing, oop, this doesn't work. you can't do it. i better say this now. he didn't know before.

let's not give him the credit for having one. he's a democrat pretending to be a republican. >> he does have kellyanne conway there telling him, you are getting absolutely hammered among hispanics. you are getting hammered among black voters. you're getting hammered among suburban voters who think you're racist, nick. and i do think it is more thought out. >> by kellyanne conway. >> i'm confused because however toxic it is for him in a general election seem like it came from a genuine place to him and spoke to a genuine place in the party. kellyanne was one of the early people in her party to warn government elites this is coming. you're right that there is an audience for this that is not the core trump base. the same way when he gives a speech talking about black voters. it's white voters who want to see him trying to talk to black voters. >> to come back to your point,

though. to come back to your point, though, at the beginning. i don't think that the inconsistency or insincerity or pivot or change, whatever you want to call this thing. i don't think he'll lose any of his base supporters. but his base supporters are not enough to win a national election. but my question is, is there anybody who thought that trump previously had a problem with trump's immigration position that he'll hear this and say he'll become much more reasonable. >> you'll look at his numbers since the democratic national convention and see the falloff of republican support, especially educated republicans. that has to be what this is directed at. trying to get that base back and then -- >> is your suspicion that for suburban, for very conservative ideological republicans who were always suspicious of him or college educated republicans, do they look at this and think,

now, they're actually softening or this is crave and posturing. he said these other things back nine months ago. >> they look at the terrible news of hillary clinton this past week and they look at more problems for the clinton foundation. and they are, i think, there are probably a lot of republicans who are desperate to find an excuse to vote against hillary clinton and to vote for donald trump. but they're not going to do it if they think he's a racist. i talked to these republicans and they are ringing their hands. >> it could be an equally interesting question. if you have the clinton campaign, how do you confront these changes or do you? he changes by the hour. what do they do? >> that's because he's learning. it just -- he was winging it. >> as a flip-flopper or do you attack him as an dangerous i idelog. >> took the word out of my mouth and used it like the first he

thought of it. you can't get these views that he has pinned down because he didn't have them. >> he was holding his finger up to the crowd and wondering yay or nay. >> in the general commentary. >> donnell trump is shifting to an illegal immigration policy that is a complete echo of the proposals by jeb bush and marco rube ye he condemned. this flip-flop means two things, first, trump's brazen contempt for his own supporters is so thorough going he thinks he can say anything without risking their votes. second, he has finally come to understand he is heading for a defeat so unimaginary humiliating he's willing to do just about anything to forestall

it but let's be clear about what this is not. this is not a play for hispanic votes. this is about generating votes among whites and likely white women by talking more nicely. call it conservatis conservatism. >> she is going to talk about the alt-right and try when he's trying to pivot in the other direction. chelsea clinton is reportedly staying on the board of her family's foundation, even if her mother is elected president. a spokesman told "wall street journal" she will keep her position with the organization if her mother wins the election in november. earlier report suggested chelsea would step down if that happened. the "journal" adds it is considering exceptions to its plan to stop accepting corporate and foreign donations like allowing the clinton health

access initiative to accept that kind of money. >> so, now, okay, chelsea's still in and they're now doing exceptions. >> on the money. >> do we have the brian fallon quote from yesterday? this was said yesterday. >> i'll jump to it because -- >> this was said yesterday on andrea mitchell. >> is this a sound bite? here's brian fallon. >> more than half the people in the world receiving aid received them from the clinton foundation. so, no, the clinton foundation will not be shuttering its work even if clinton wins the presidency and for good reason. they want to continue this work. you know what, if any american voter is troubled by the idea that the clintons want to continue working to solve the aids crisis on the side while hillary clinton is president, then don't vote for her. >> that is so pathetic. you all are not really that path pathetic, are you? are you really that pathetic?

are you really that pathetic? you're going to say if bill clinton doesn't have the opportunity to shake down billionaires. that aids might be cured. so, i guess if we're keeping score at home, barack obama is moses and has the ability to stop the tides from rising. >> okay. >> right. in our time. and bill clinton shaking down billionaires in kazakhstan while doing deals on the side and getting paid $550,000 for a one-hour speech. that's our only path forward to curing aids. you're not really that pathetic, are you? because if that's the best line of attack you have, you need to go back to middle school and start all over again. mike barnicle. if you're really against, if you're really, if you don't want

aids cured, okay, then, i guess, don't vote for hillary clinton. >> i don't anyone who questions the good works that have been done by the clinton foundation. >> wonderful work that's been done. >> great work. >> but, again, it gets to judgme judgment. it doesn't get to corruption as far as i'm concerned. it gets to judgment. why they don't announce that the clinton global foundation will be melded into the gates foundation to remove any sense of -- >> because then it won't be about them. because then it won't be about bill clinton. >> she'll be president, though. >> hey, do you think bill clinton is going to get paid $550,000 for the one-hour speech in all of this swirl of special interest. he goes to countries and gives speeches and maybe they have business before the white house and, no, why would they let the gates foundation do it because the gates foundation is actually interested in just taking care of education and aid.

so, bill gates doesn't shake down people for $550,000 for a one-hour speech. >> donald trump said hillary clinton ran it like a third -- here's hillary responding. >> what trump has said is ridiculous. i work as secretary of state was not influenced by any outside forces. i made policy decisions based on what i thought was right. to keep americans safe and to protect u.s. interests abroad. no wild, political attack by donald trump who is going to change that. in fact, the state department has said itself that there is no evidence of any kind of impropiety at all. >> i made it clear, if she becomes president we'll have to do more than what we did when she was secretary of state.

if you're president, you can't. but we're going to transition all these responsibilities that would require foreign or corporate donations, which i won't accept and i won't raise money for the foundation if she wins. and i'm happy to do the transition as quickly as we can. >> so -- >> i'm confused. >> they're just classier about it. >> they cannot help themselves. >> i want to see them explain so i can understand better for myself why donations from foreign governments and corporations are corrupting. but for rich people in america it's not corrupting. so, i'm not sure why they made that the land in the sand how they're going to place the ethics of this conflict of interest. i'm very confused by it. >> i said the thing yesterday about how the foundation should be shut down and abuse along

this line that you're going to kill people if you do this and that's what james carville said. >> were you the person that carville said going to go to hell. >> i'm going for a lot of other reasons. that's already a foregone conclusion. i'm now on the express train. but i will say that the "boston globe" the "huffington post" and "daily beast" and john cassidy and "new yorker" these are not right wing people. all people who have said over the last week or so that the foundation should not have the clinton name on it. that all the good works that it does can be farmed out to other nonprofits and absorbed whether it's in the gates foundation or rebranded. there are a variety of institutions and be complicated to do. all that money and all those lives that are saved and all the drugs that are purchased and all the work that the foundation

currently does can go on. it can go on and no services can be interrupted. it can be complicated, but doable if you wanted to get out of the business of these conflict of interest that are built into the clinton foundation. it's doable. if what you care about is the appearance and actuality of the potential conflict of interest going forward and from this day forward and getting rid of the political problem it poses, you would say that's what we're going to do. from this day forward, we are committed to doing all the good work. we're just not going to do it underneath our name any more. >> also a test. how much of that money keeps coming in if their name isn't attached to it? we've seen the donors as a way to win favorite. >> presumably, if the donors actually -- >> nick, what did george stephanopoulos say about giving money to the foundation? >> what did he say? >> you do it for access.

you write the check to the clinton foundation because you want access. that's a guy who knows. >> if the donors care about the causes. >> can anybody answer the question, why don't they do that. >> if the donors care. i already answered it. like a washing machine of just cash. and you open it and it just flies all over the place and it's hard to tell where the foundation money starts and the speeches for bill clinton end and the business in front of the state department. you go back and, yes, maybe there's no direct line, but, of course, the clintons are smarter than that. you don't make $100 million or $200 million post-presidency. and while he's secretary of state and get your speech fees doubled from like 250,000 to $550,000 for people who have business before the state department without knowing not to draw those lines. >> if the donors care about the programs, they'll keep writing the checks. if the donors care about access,

they'll stop writing the checks. that's the bottom line. that way the question will be answered. if you took the name off the foundation, you'll know what the donors actually care about. checks come in or do they stop? >> maybe if they stop, then maybe for james carville, they're the ones going to hell because they didn't care about curing aids or education or any of these other issues. still ahead on "morning joe" donald trump last week tweeted they will soon be calling me mr. brexit. last night mr. brexit himself joined trump on stage in mississippi. plus, a live report from on the ground in italy in the wake of a devastating earthquake there. plus, aman has late-breaking details on the terror attack at the american university attack in afghanistan. but, first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> i know you guys give me a hard time for not being accurate as much as i actually am.

yesterday is where we were wrong in the weather community. the interpretation of the forecast did not tell us we were going to have this dire threat in indiana as we went through the afternoon. we knew a chance of thunderstorms and we did not know it would produce this many tornadoes. 42 tornadoes some were strong tornadoes. we did have destroyed structures. there were more misses than hits. no fufaatalities with 42 tornad, that is a minor miracle. showers and thunderstorms in this area. 70 million people at risk. northern indiana and northern ohio and then back here towards oklahoma and southern kansas. we're still watching our friend in the tropics here. tropical wave still has not become a named system and still heavy rain within an 80% chance of this becoming a tropical system and heading throughout florida as we go through the upcoming weekend. does not look like a devastating

blow and the possibility of flooding out there. one more nice day for boston all the way down to new york and no chance of thunderstorms on friday and humidity come back, too. another beautiful morning out there and the humidity will slowly be creeping in. it's great for travel throughout the day. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. seriously..."vo: clear thinking... donald trump: "i know more about isis than the generals do, believe me." vo: and calm judgment. donald trump: "and you can tell them to go fu_k themselves." vo: because all it takes is one wrong move. donald trump audio only: "i would bomb the sh_t out of them." vo: just one. morning is nothing new...stion, muddling through your ♪ introducing rhinocort® allergy spray. powerful relief from nasal allergy symptoms, all day and all night. ♪ try rhinocort® allergy spr.

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so, nick, set this up, if you will. downfall movie. >> so, in case you haven't seen, you know, these parodies on youtube. a movie about the end of world war ii and the scene where the generals have to show hitler he's losing ask they think he's winning. and they just change the subtitles in each parody and it's a different joke every time. now, apparently -- >> somebody got to work last night on this one.

>> you can actually go make your own, i guess. >> i could do better than that. i wasn't sure who trump was in that. was trump hitler or was bannon hitler. i couldn't tell. >> no, they're controlling the campaign. they think they're controlling the campaign, but they're not. >> i want to see a good one-to-one matchup on the characters. >> no, i didn't get that. >> the must-read opinion pages are just ahead. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ave me options. kept me on track. and through it all, my retirement never got left behind. so today, i'm prepared for anything we may want tomorrow to be. every someday needs a plan. let's talk about your old 401(k) today.

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>> folks, the mesen is clear. the parallels are there and millions of ordinary americans who have been let down and feel let down and feel the political class in washington are detached from them. who feel so many of their representatives are politically correct parts of that liberal media elite. they feel people aren't standing up for them and they actually, in many cases, have given up on the whole electoral process. and i think, i think that you have a fantastic opportunity here with this campaign. you can go out. you can beat the pollsters. you can beat the commentators. you can beat washington. >> the man who led the uk independence party as it spear headed the brexit vote last night in mississippi. >> among the many weird things on this campaign, given how

weird this campaign has been, it's hard to say this, but that the british, there will be a general election rally by a republican nominee in mississippi in august that featured a british politician. that's one i would have never -- >> never. >> yes. it's, yes -- >> what swing voter does that? >> i am wondering how the folks in that room really knew who he was. >> you know who else was down there and i'm looking forward to this weekend. maureen o'dowd wdowd was down t all right, up next, choose your own adventure gop style from trump taking over to some kind of stalemate. our nbc political team breaks down four possible paths for the republican party post-november. "morning joe" is back in a moment. muddling through your morning is nothing new... ♪ introducing rhinocort® allergy spray.

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>> the difference. he looks like a cartoon. of what people think a republican businessman would be. >> certainly more that could be done there to make my job easier as i try to attract other conservative women out to vote. >> aristocrats. that's unfortunate. >> donald trump was my 15th choice of the 16 choices of republicans running for the nomination. you wonder who his 16th choice was. yeah. >> when donald trump entered the republican race, the republican party was already divided. by the time he accepted the nomination, it seemed the gop had completely fractured. the final installment of nbc three-part digital series examines beyond the candidate saying it can go in four possible directions. writes whether or not trump

prevails in november and the gop is set for rebuilding process like none in recent memory. if he wins, he'll face a congress whose leaders have largely distanced themselves from his brand and who oppose mitch of h much of his agenda. offers each faction of the party a credible argument that the approach would have carried the election, instead. the four possible paths for the party, do any of them include republicans who stand firm that perhaps this isn't somebody they can stand by, but they have principles they want to continue and they say that publicly. >> absolutely. now, for this project we talked to a whole wide range of republican leaders. you saw some of them on screen there. there's hard core trump supporters, there's people who opposed him in very fierce terms like david from some others who sort of supported him with the

reservations and the big consensus is that the party has underlying principles and limited fwumlimit ed government and which one they should emphasize more than others and which ones may have to fall by the way side to win an election. >> the question is, how does a party that has mitt romney and bannon in the same party. how do those two ever come together. how do they ever co exist in the same party. it seems hard to imagine. >> that's the circle that a lot of people are trying to square. we talk to people with different ideas on what to do about this. one possibility where those people can't live in the same party. mitt romney is not supporting donald trump and maybe say donald trump takes over the party. this is what it is like from now on. the kind you saw with nigel a.

there are other possibilities. trump loses and they aggressively primary anyone who resembles trump and take control of the agenda. and then people floating some interesting third ways and alternative options. one is this idea that people like david fraum has brought up conform conservatism where the party says, look, we have to acknowledge that trump voters are upset for a reason here. >> absolutely. >> we have not given them a platform that speaks to the working class. it actually gives, actually puts money in the middle class' pocket in a time of stagnating wages. that could be, for example, maybe supporting wage subsidies of some kind or an increase in the minimum wage. mean targeted tax credits to the middle class. maybe moving a little further right on immigration and moving closer to trump. we're not quite sure where he is today. skeptical on immigration to show with the working class. >> what happens if trump loses

and a certain element of the core of his strength, the white nationalist antiimmigration forces that love trump disappear into the hills of the republican party like japanese soldiers refusing to surrender and just are there existing and fighting an ongoing establishment. >> this is a real thing that could happen. even if trump loses, there's no guarantee this force goes away. in fact, some of the republicans i talked to, for example, rick santorum, were worried about this idea that the party would forget about the trump voters right after the election. they'd say, this was a weird fluke but now we don't have to worry about those guys. they're still going to be a force. you see it in news outlets like breitbright. all of conservative media really oppose trump. the "weekly standard" and flagship conservative outlets and they were outflanked by some fox news host and by new places

like breitbright and this populous alt-conservatism. that's not going away, no matter what. that could expand if donald trump starts their own media outlet with them. that is quite the platform to push this agenda further. >> that looks like it's in the works as a potential. >> i think margin is going to matter a lot, in terms of how this whole debate shakes out. does trump lose marginally or in a landside. it will just change the contours and whether some of these forces have to retreat because they've been humiliated or it's a close election, have they been boldened. >> what more do they need? you can check out the digital feature online at nbcnews.com/trump. thank you so much. >> thank you. we appreciate you coming. coming up, the alt-right

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because after all we should fit into your life. not the other way around. an attack on american university of afghanistan has left 13 people dead, said the local police chief there and

dozens more injured in kabul. the attack on the university comprised of mostly american faculty and afghan students and it comes just two weeks after two staff members, one american and one australian were kidnapped. the pentagon said yesterday that u.s. military advisors are on the ground with afghan security forces that university. no militant group have taken responsibility for the attack. to talk about this, let's bring in in, the link between the two kidnappings. >> this is being described as a complex attack and the sophistication involved in it. one of the most heavily guarded areas in kabul. probably had the second highest number of protection around the compound. high walls, security guards. what we're hearing it was complex because a car bomb that went off on the outside perimeter that allowed the attackers to penetrate the

university and the accounts we're hearing. we spoke to a professor and he said he heard the explosion and saw the gunman enter the compound and as you can imagine with an active shooter situation, they began shooting at all the students that were gathered there for nighttime classes. some of the students were jumping out of the windows, we are told, as they were trying to escape. at one point trying to ejape to an adjacent compound. the gate was broke. just to get out of that, you know, dire situation. >> doesn't this really get to the dwindling security situation in afghanistan after all these years? >> at the very core of this, even in kabul, which is the seat of government, you are seeing brazen and complex attacks which go after symbolic targets. you are asking who may be behind this. the first organization that comes to mind is the taliban. they have a strong foothold in the country and have the desire and the ideological reason to go

after a university like this. the rise of isis in afghanistan have become a major problem for international forces there. so, it could very well be isis. we don't know who was behind the kidnapping of that american and australian professor two or three weeks ago. no claim of responsibility on that kidnapping and no claim of responsibility on the attack that took place yesterday. also this, turkish trips, american warplanes and syrian rebels joined forces yesterday in a major cross border assault into northern syria against isis. by late afternoon, syrian rebels seized the town, the islamic state's last foothold on the turkish border and said they encountered little resistance from isis fighters as they move under to the heart of the town. the operation ramped up as vice president joe biden arrived for meetings with the president and prime minister. it comes at a sensitive time in

relations between the two country in the wake of a coup attempt and calls for the u.s. to extradite and involvement. the relationship with turkey is so sensitive on so many levels. >> this is a very significant development. believe me, the timing of this is not lost. the vice president arriving in turkey at least on the terrorism front particularly with syrian and the u.s. are still operating on the same page. the u.s. provided air support for this and certainly in coordination with the turkish military as it made its advances. this is going to complicate the situation in syria beyond belief. turkey is seen as an invader from the syrian government's perspepe perspective. >> not cooperative. and then there's also the fault lines of syrian kurds who see turkey as their archenemy. they have been the u.s. biggest fighting force on the ground and

now brought turkish forces in. >> joe biden has his hands full. what at most can he ask or demand from because it's been frustrating to watch, to say the least. >> it has been. i think the vice president is going to carry a message about domestic issues within turkey. they want to see progress on some of the so-called purge that has taken place in that country following the coup. the u.s. will have questions about that. but, also, they want to see the consistent border between turkey and syria closed. that has been the consistent problem of the u.s. >> what about turks go across the border and they seize the town and did they seize the town to prevent the kurds from taking it? >> this particular town was a particular stronghold against isis. they're making the argument this was not for any purposes to root out isis from this particular time that was used as an entry point going into syria, but ultimately leaving syria to go into europe.

there is the argument to be made. but you raise a really good point. where turkey goes from here. if they direct their guns and move towards the syrian kurds and the syrian rebels backed by the u.s. or try to take more isis held territory, that will answer your question more accurately. >> one last big international story this morning. after 50 years of fighting columbia's government have reached a historic peace deal. columbia's government to turn the page on decades of political violence. it's been one of the world's longest running conflicts claiming the lives of more than 220,000 victims and forcing more than $500 million people from their homes. the two sides reached a peace accord where negotiations began in 2012. under the agreement, the rebel group will turn in their weapons to the united nations sponsor monitor and join the legal, political process. president obama spoke to columbia's president over the phone last night to congratulate

him on finalizing the details of the peace agreement. the accord will now be sent to columbia's congress and is expected to get a national vote on october 2nd. ahman, thank you for being on this morning. coming up on "morning joe" trump's immigration plan started off with talk of a deportation force. then there was word of "softening." now trump seems to be putting together something we've seen before from jeb bush and marco rubio. hallie jackson and jeremy peters join us with their reporting. plus, aftershocks rock central italy as the search continues for survivors after yesterday's massive earthquake. we'll get a live report from nbc bill neely. hotels.com makes it simple to book

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>> hillary clinton created an illegal, private e-mail server deliberately, willfully and with total premeditation. could be the first way was right, actually. you know, i might like the first way better. premedication. premedication. i think i like it. all right. premeditation. i love that! welcome back to "morning joe" it is thursday, august 25th. still with us on set, veteran columnist mike barnicle.

>> legendary. >> managing editor and co-host of "all due respect" john heilmann. and joining the conversation, the "new york times" reporter jeremy peters joins us. good to have you onboard, jeremy. last night fox news aired the second part of their forum with donald trump and in it he seemed to back away from his firm insistence that began in july of last year that all undocumented immigrants need to leave the country or be deported. >> i'll ask the audience, you have somebody who's terrific, who has been here 20 years. right, a long time. can we go through a process or do you think they have to get out? tell me. i don't know. you tell me. i'd like to know. >> how many think they should go through the process and then maybe give them a chance. clap. >> how many people? >> how many think they should go?

>> but do it, again. you have someone who has been in the country for 20 years, has done a great job. okay. do we take him and the family. her or him or whatever and send them out and they're gone or when somebody really has shown. it's called the meret system like they did break the law in the first place. do we throw them out or work with them? ready. number one, work with them. number one, we'll say throw out. number two, we work with them. ready? number one. >> number two. this is like a poll. there's thousands of people in this room. >> you're saying that if somebody can prove that they've been here and proven to be a citizen. here's the big question, though. no citizenship. >> no citizenship. let me go a step further. they'll pay back taxes, they

have to pay taxes. there's no amnesty as such. there's no amnesty. but we work with them. >> jeb bush wins, right? >> establishment wins. >> establishment wins. >> the chambe of commerce wins. marco rubio wins. jeremy peters, it looks as if donald trump has adopted jeb bush, marco rubio and the chamber of commerce's position. >> he was focus grouping his new position right there before our very eyes. and using a news network to do so. which i think is one of the things that has been lost in this. is sean hannity's incredibly inappropriate role as an adviser to donald trump who was essentially giving him tens of millions of dollars of free advertising. that aside, i wondered how this was going to play that donald trump softening his immigration stance. how does this play with the far right group that he has been

trying to court for so long. that has given him such a rise in the polls. i've been in arizona and there's a real split. there are actually some people who think that what trump is doing will sit well with these voters because they say, oh, donald is just saying that to get elected. now, that to me sounds like consultant speak. i really don't believe that there are that many voters who think that way. what i do think is very real is the sense that trump is being himself. and that means that he is not being consistent. he is not being true to what he said. he's flip-flopped and that he was playing them all along. that is a very pervasive sentence. trump the conartist is back and that he's going to basically sell out his constituents. >> i just don't see his constituents, though, going anywhere. they stick with him no matter what. >> i know. i guess it's kind of hard to deny that that was the audience

w was, he was using a fox news audience to sort of bring them along with whatever evolution he needs to make. >> getting cheers for it, too. >> getting cheers from it and help from the anchor. >> which is how he processes. he even said it. the joke in the media thinks that the crowd there is a polling group, but he actually does believe it. if he could get the crowd in a room over to his new position, he'll get all the voters out there over to the position. >> you're saying trump's rallies are his focus, his ideal focus group. >> his ideal focus group. >> it stands in sharp contrast with what donald trump has said in the past on multiple occasions and, mika, also, especially when you pressed him last november about deportation and what, the lengths he would go to get people out of his country. this is what he said.

>> how do you deport 12 million? how do you deport 12 million illegal immigrants? >> you do it because they're here illegally. >> are you going to have a massive deportation force? >> you're going to have a massive deportation force. frankly the people because you have excellent, wonderful people that have been here for a long period of time. >> so people will face ramifications that they don't leave, they harbor them. how are you going to pay for this. >> very expensively. >> ripped out of their homes. how? >> they are going back from where they came. that's the way it is supposed to be. now, they can come back but they have tacome back lego come back. they have to come back, but they will have to come back legally. >> the question that i have, with all due respect. i'll ask john, host, does it seem like when you're watching that interview it was sort of

spur of the moment thought? >> he's making it up as he goes along. >> i was trying to say it polightlpolit plightly. >> the way he start his campaign and the win in which the wall and immigration became a signature issue. i thought for a long time that trump has not very many really clear policy or ideology and he has improvised everything. this is the one issue that you felt was animating him more than any other issue. that it was the one core issue on which he would be consistent throughout. and, yeah, he was on the details, feel like a deportation force. yeah, i thought he was, but you didn't think. you thought if there was one place where he wouldn't go squishy, he wouldn't go squishy and now he's going squishy.

>> abortions and a mother should be punished. yeah, sure. >> that was clearly something he had not thought very hard about. >> the same thing with the mass deportation force. so, you're going to have a mass deportation force. we'll have a deportation force. >> how else are we going to get them out. we'll have one. >> that interview took place in november. >> november. >> his candidacy has been public and he's been out there now for 14 months. his core group of constituents aren't going anywhere no matter what he says. no matter how he changes. >> look at evangelicals despite what donald trump has said into a microphone for all the world to hear. >> he lives with the liberty of being able to say anything at any time. >> you want pro-life voters and winning pro-life voters in the polls despite his planned of parenting. >> you can say he survives no

matter what he says. >> his core group will not disappear. >> what in the world is paul ryan doing then? you're riding a bucking bronco with, what, i don't know, somebody whipping it. i mean, you're just -- why? >> he's moving closer to paul ryan's position now. >> on what? >> immigration. like you said, nick, he's moving closer to jeb's position. marco's position. the chamber of commerce position. everybody's position. mitch mcconnell's position when he starts talking about -- >> all his rivals, basically. on details of policy, i think the hope of the republicans if he should win he should grant them the driver's seat on the details of tax policy and regulatory policy. the things that they care a lot about. he even said this in some meetings. i don't think he has a deep interest in some of the arcanna of this. one reason the paul ryans of the world are holding on because

they hope at the least, at the very end, if he does win, he will come to them for guidance. >> they know they control the agenda next year. >> i continue to ask this question, which is not the question whether trump supporters will abandon him. the point is, i agree this is what he is doing. he is trying to persuade suburban republican leaning white voters that he's not a racist. what wins? millions of dollars of clinton campaign advertising playing what he said before and reminding people that he talked about rape about rapists and talked admiringly about operation wet back or the new trump. for those voters, what wins? >> it's a great question. i don't think there is a uniform answer. i think there are some people that are not going to be able to ever vote for donald trump because of what he said in the past. there are those some persuadables. but i do not think they're

enough to put him over the top in the end. >> writes in "washington examiner" team trump makes a mess of immigration. donald trump's immigration proposals and the candidate and his top aides are making a mess of things. what is the status of his old pruprooposal to deport all immigrants in the u.s. illegally. the answer is entirely unclear. what trump does could have a serious effect on his campaign. perhaps a new, more moderate position might attract some undecided voters. but a retreat from the deportation pledge or at least what many supporters believe trump's deportation pledge to be could disillusion some who have supported and worked for trump's candidacy. >> we certainly saw that last night play out in real time in some of the more conservative, i don't know if you say conservative, but some of the tougher -- >> i don't know.

this whole thing is fascinating. now to this. chelsea clinton is reportedly planning to stay on the board of her family's foundation, even if her mother is elected president. a spokesman told "wall street journal" yesterday she will keep her position with the organization if her mother wins the election in november. earlier reports suggested chelsea would step down if that happened. "the journal" adds the foundation is also considering exceptions to its plan to stop accepting corporate and foreign donations like allowing the clinton health access initiative to accept that kind of money. donald trump kept up his attack that the clintons use public office for personal gain yesterday and then the clintons responded. >> hillary clinton ran the state department like a failed leader in a third world country. that's what it's done. it's run like a third world country. she sold favors and access and

exchange for cash. she sold favors. she sold access. and wait until you see what it's revealed. all of those people. now it looks like it's 50% of the people that saw her had to make contributions to the clinton foundation. until you see ultimately what she did for all of those people. >> what trump has said is ridiculous. i work as secretary of state was not influenced by any outside forces. i made policy decisions based on what i thought was right. to keep americans safe and to protect u.s. interests abroad. no wild political attack by donald trump who is going to change that. and, in fact, the state department has said itself that there is no evidence of any kind of impropriety at all.

>> and i made it clear that if she becomes president, you'll have to do more than we did when she was secretary of state. if you make a mistake, there is always, if you're president, you can't. but ware going to transition all these responsibilities that would require foreign or corporate donations, which i will accept. and i won't raise money for the foundation if she wins. and i'm happy to do the transition as quickly as we can. >> more than half the people in the world receiving aid received them from the clinton foundation. so, no, the clinton foundation will not be completely shuttering its work even if clinton wins the presidency and for good reason. they want to continue this work. you know what, if any american voter is troubled by the idea that the clintons want to continue working to solve the aids crisis on the side while hillary clinton is president, then don't vote for her. >> wow. >> bill clinton -- what did he

say? we need to play that, again. >> the whole thing. i mean, seriously. >> if you support aids research, but if you don't. then don't. and the bill clinton. that's just that's mumbo jumbo. >> they had a concrete agreement that they made during the winter of 2008 and 2009 prior to her becoming secretary of state that they would adhere to a strict set of regulations to prevent a conflict of interest and that dependent on your point of view was broken, broached by april of 2009. >> will read now from somebody has done reporting about this. used to work at bloomberg and annie has written a lot about this. during clinton's 2009 senate coniffirmation hearing she was asked about how the country's chief diplomat would promise

that such gifts would be disclosed and reviewed by the state department. since she left "the post" many gifts weren't made public or reviewed internally, including ones made to the clinton health access initiative. how the changes they're proposing may not apply to the clinton health access initiative. that initiative sounds small but accounts for 60% of what the clinton foundation spends money on. >> she breached very quickly her deal and her promise to barack obama. >> that is accurate, yeah. >> also importantly, the initiative depends a lot, actually, on grants from former governments to fund. one reason why they would have that exception there because without that you can shut the whole thing down. >> bill gates can't. i mean, that is what we brought up last hour. the audacity to say only the clintons can stop aides.

by bill clinton mingling with billionaires across the planet doing business. >> it was not as important when she was secretary of state because it always could be bumped up to the president when they made a mistake. that was the logic. >> there is now a liberal, again, i was citing before a lot of liberal writers and editorial boards of liberal newspapers that are now arguing that the foundation needs to be shut down, rebranded in some way. the foundation does good work. no reason why that work can't continue. it can be redistributed and off to other foundations and some of it cane new institutions can beform no reason why any of this work that is noble does not need, cannot continue, just not underneath the clinton purview. >> if you speak to people who are active in africa in fighting aids, combatting aids and have been great successes in several different countries in africa

combatting aids, the person who gets the most credit in africa and the least credit here is president george w. bush. >> yeah. >> okay, so, you know the clintons always can rely on that right wing attack. the overreach, you know. >> always overreach. >> they look actually like victims in the end, but we won't have that here. because rudy giuliani really toned it down this time. >> calm and measured. >> when the history of our day is written, the scandal you are watching unfold is going to be like the teapot dome scandal was in the 1920s and maybe bigger. it's going to be bigger than watergate. nixon had to leave office and he did a lot of bad things, but it wasn't raking in millions and millions of dollars through a phony charity.

i'm not sure how much money was involved in the teapot dome, but i bet it couldn't have been too much more than the hundreds of millions of dollars the clintons have been getting and turning the state department into a pay for play operation. >> and there you have it. >> on a podium within the past two weeks indicated that there was no terrorist attack occurring in the united states prior to the obama administration. this is a man who suggested you go on the internet to find out how sick hillary clinton is. >> who continues to suggest that even just as recently as yesterday. >> and there is a lot more evidence of pay to play with the re-election campaign and big corporation. >> mr. giuliani okay? >> that's a good question. >> i know the answer to that

question. >> jeremy peters, final word goes to you. >> this is the problem. republicans always take this too far. they always overestimate the rest of the public's animosity and distaste for their own political enemies. they did this with barack obama. the same thing that rudy jew giuliani just said about hillary clinton. that this is the worst scandal since watergate. the same thing that republicans were saying about ben gaunzghaz. so, it's -- while that speaks to a certain part of their base, it totally loses focus from what republicans, republican strategists have found as a very effective message. when you take the clinton scandal and you make it about an argument that says the clintons play by their own rules. that's actually really effective with swing voters. if people think that the clintons are basically out for themselves. if they're not playing by the rules, then that's going to move

people. rudy giuliani saying that hillary clinton is losing her mind is gravely ill and is one of the most corrupt politicians of modern times, right, exactly. i don't know who that, who that is going to convince that is on the fence. >> jeremy peters, thank you so much. still ahead on "morning joe" donald trump flat out called hillary clinton a bigot. this morning he's meeting with leaders of minority communities. haley jackson will join us live from outside trump tower with her new reporting. and later, there are voices under the rubble. a young girl rescued in italy, but 250 people are dead and aftershocks still rattling the country. you're watching "morning joe."

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>> it's time to give the democrats some competition for african-american votes and for hispanic votes. hillary clinton is a bigot who sees people of color only as

votes, not as human beings worthy of a better future. so, to the african-american voter, great people. to the hispanic voter who have been absolutely treated terribly, i say what do you have to lose? what? i will fix it. i'll be able to make sure that when you walk down the street in your inner city or wherever you are, you're not going to be shot. your child isn't going to be shot. okay. that first bite you heard was donald trump last night accusing hillary clinton of being a bigot. that was in jackson, mississippi. note that jackson is a city that is 80% african-american. joining us from washington, attorney and republican strategist ben ginsburg and at trump tower here in new york

city hallie jackson who is covering the trump campaign. first of all, hallie, give us a sense of the meeting today and then we'll get ben's sense of what the strategy is here. >> yeah, so, the meeting today happening later today at trump tower. donald trump meeting with republican, african-american and hispanic activists part of this republican leadership initiative that was put together by the rnc last year. the idea is to bring these young folks in for maybe six weeks or so to do some training on how to organize and get out there so they can be set in the field to help with ground game. these people are coming and meeting with trump today. you have to imagination that his immigration positions are going to come up. donald trump promising in the next week and a half to two weeks promise more detail which a lot of people are looking for, particularly after his comments. you heard last night he appeared this really drdramatic change. families in particular. last year he told chuck todd they have to go and now he's

saying potentially a way to maybe work with them and talking about how difficult it is for some of these families. at least that's what he hears. you have immigration. the other part that will come up, trump's outreach to african-american communities. it is a bit controversial. i mean, you heard him talking there. critics say he's essentially condescending condescending. the line he said at the rally last night, calling her a bigot. talk about her bigotry in the past and that's the first time we heard something this tough. this was not an off the cuff comment from trump. this was a scripted line in a teleprompter that trump read. and it is clearly part of his campaign strategy to go after clinton. she, by the way, is going to be going after him today at her speech in reno. she previewed that a little bit talking about how she believed he is pedaling bigotry and prejudice and taking a hate

movement main stream. >> so, ben, tell me what kind of solid republican strategy you see happening here. >> well, it's good to see the rhetoric in the campaign is rising here. so, look, republicans, there are a number of republicans who have successful outreach as part of their campaigns to african-americans communities and hispanic communities and tribal communities. so, so, republicans do know how to run that play. in isolated instances. the problem is, it has to be part of a long-term commitment that happens over the course of the campaign and a krs of public service. it's a little bit tough to launch this in august before the election. >> couple of new state polls this morning. let's start in north carolina.

cnn/orc poll up by one point. other recent polls shown her up by as much as 9%. in arizona trump up 49%. 49, 44. john, let me, i think both sides you could argue should be doing so much better. but, dot, dot, dot, what is finish the sentence. >> they're both really unpopular. the two most unpopular disliked nominees in our lifetime running against each other in the same election which is a historic. the case that that arizona poll has clinton within the margin of arizona in arizona. she just opened in georgia. the north carolina poll is going to be a purple state. it's a battleground state and it is going to be close. missouri we saw a poll yesterday, they have a one-point

race in missouri. right now, missouri, arizona, georgia, that those are competitive states at this phase in the general election. states that the democrat have not competed in in a significant way in decades tells you something about why donald trump is doing the things he's doing right now. he's looking at those polls and saying if georgia's competitive, i'm losing. >> so, in that, let's look at the senate side of things. in that cnn/arizona poll. senator john mccain is comfortably ahead by 13. but, meanwhile a new forecast by "new york times" upshot shows the odds in the democrats' favor to reclaim control of the senate this fall. their newest forecast gives democrats a 60% chance calculating that the party needs to win five seats among the 11 most competitive races. they also estimate a 17% chance the senate winds up evenly split with daement with, and hillary clinton has an 89% chance of winning the

presidency. according to "the times" clinton's chance of losing is the same probability of an nfl kicker missing a field goal from the 20 yard line. >> i have seen that happen. >> i've seen that happen. >> wide right. >> doesn't happen often. >> i guess for republicans hoping to hold on to their positions in congress and in the senate, i'm trying to get my arms around donald trump's policies as they're developing over time. we showed on the show his evolution. what he said back in november versus what he said in like a family feud style polling on fox news about immigration. and, so, is this a candidate that you can follow and understand exactly where his views are and truly believe that he has researched them? and i ask that because then i

wonder how you get behind a candidate like this if you're a republican leader because you know you're going to most probably end up getting burned. does that make sense? >> well, two points. first of all, what you're going to see with the trump campaign is a little bit of a litmus test for america on is this a contest for ideas or a contest about p personality. if it's personality, then the donald trump what he's doing now makes sense. the second is, just to fast forward to house and senate races. one of the great quandaries that we'll be looking is what the actual turnout models are in different states. does hillary clinton turn out people who support her but may support a republican senate candidate. do republicans state parties just turn out donald trump supporters or do they turn out trump supporters who may vote

for a democratic candidate or do they turn out republicans brought in in the registration drives who will vote for their senate candidates, but not necessarily for donald trump. >> all right, mike. >> hallie, do you know, according to your reporting from sources from within the campaign any plan with the new people running the campaign to get people out on a sidewalk in an african-american community talking about african-americans rather than standing on the stage in front of a group of wealthy white people? >> right. yes. i can tell you this, a top campaign aide is telling he will get out to african-american communities to delivering remarks presumably in a more int interactive way. ben carson is going to be planning a trip with trump to a community to do just that. walk him around and get him interacting with people because he has raised eyebrows with the

exception of jackson last night and deliver the message out of outreach. hey, he has a national spotlight and he's delivering a message. when he talks people just beyond the room listen. critics question that strategy just a little bit. i want to jump on the immigration discussion, too. mika, the sound bites on some of his immigration positions over the last nine months or so. i'll tell you, right now, and especially over the last 12, 18 hours his comments have come out on the fox news town hall almost a bit of a heads exploding moment. people looking at this going, we told you so. right, we've been saying this for months. i am talking about donald trump's challengers going, oh, my gosh. he's accusing him of stealing their positions and doing exactly what they predicted he would do, particularly i think it was a ted cruz. we were there during all those debates and cruz's big line donald trump is going to flip and you're seeing cruz folks

just going, whoa, this is exactly what we said he would do. these are people not predisposed to like donald trump in the first place. >> but they also predicted it and it happened. hallie jackson. ben ginsburg, thank you, as well. still ahead this morning the latest from italy where 247 are dead following yesterday's earthquake. beautiful ancient cities like amatrice reduced to ruins. we'll go live there when we come back. your desk phone always has to be at your desk? now, with one talk from verizon... hi, pete. i'm glad you called. (announcer vo) all your phones can work together on one number. you can move calls between phones, so conversations can go where you go. take your time. i'm not going anywhere. (announcer vo) and when you're not available, one talk helps find the right person who is. hi, john. (announcer vo) so wherever work takes you, you can put your customers first. introducing one talk-- another way verizon connects your business bter. learn how at onetalk.com. ♪

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now to the deadly earthquake that has devastated central italy. at least 247 people are dead. hundreds more injured and an unknown number still trapped in the rubble. right now thousands of rescuers are on the scenes using heavy equipment, search dogs and even their bare hands to try to locate survivors. joining us now from amatrice, italy, bill neely. bill? >> good morning, mika. there is destruction, terrible destruction all around me just like this. it's hard to see how anyone could have come out of a building like that. what is that? maybe three stories high. it is actually hard to tell. just a short time ago, there was a rescuer with a sniffer dog, once again, just making sure there was no one in there alive. we don't think there is. there are, as you say, thousands of rescuers here from the fire service, soldiers, police.

all of them working, especially here in amatrice the hardest hit town hoping. amid all the death and destruction here, there are moments of hope and moments of joy. from the rubble, a small voice. rescuers find a little girl trapped in the ruins. come on, yule julia, they urge . and then pull her out. julia is bewildered, but alive. clinging to her rescuer. amazingly, uninjured. beautiful girl, they shout. nearby, a little boy is carried away after 12 hours buried in a collapsed house. life amid so much death in the broken town of amatrice that woke this morning to aftershocks and a rising death toll.

from a massive quake that struck tuesday as everyone slept. its clock stopped. they worked oerb nig eed overni people out, mostly just bodies. an 80-year-old woman her daughter killed and a rescuer telling her to stay calm. amatrice was hardest hit. reduced to dust by a quake felt 100 miles away in rome. >> there's nothing there any more. >> another survivor is airlifted out swaying above a town that is shaking still. they are going through the rubble here by hand trying to match the bodies they found with the possessions here to more easily identify them. but mostly they're using these earth movers. it is now the case here. more of a recovery than a rescue. this was amatrice before and now after. a historic town and now every

building cracked or destroyed. many slept outside overnight fearing more buildings would collapse. it's a small place where everyone knows everyone. and where they all know the death toll will rise, again. well, the rescuers here admit they don't actually know how many people are missing in buildings like this one. this was a historic, but also a tourist town and hundreds of tourists here, as well, as the local's one hotel has collapsed entirely. so, they're really not sure how high the death toll will be. they're working amid aftershocks. more than 400 so far, including one this morning that was 4.7 on the richter scale. that's pretty strong. that's certainly strong enough to bring down fragile building so, there is still a big risk here. one other thing. the two other earthquakes in this area. the two recent tremors.

the strongest earthquake in the sequence wasn't the first one. so, there is still great risk here of not just an aftershock but, effectively, another earthquake. mika? >> nbc bill neely, thank you very much. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." 19 trillion and growing money for programs like education will shrink. in just 8 years, interest on the debt will be our third largest federal program. bad news for small businesses. the good news? there's still time for a solution. ask the candidates for a plan to secure our future.

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wire... and plants needed to give my shop... a face... no one will forget. see what the power of points can do for your business. learn more at chase.com/ink >> hillary clinton doesn't do speeches. she doesn't do press conferences. it's been almost 300 days. people don't know where she is. her supports have really and her supporters have very little enthusiasm. the only people enthusiastic about her campaign are hollywood celebrities. in many cases, celebrities that aren't very any more. still ahead, 265 daze and counting since the last news conference from hillary clinton and the questions just keep

piling up. we'll talk to one of her supporters. congressman jim himes, next. just like the people who own them, every business is different. but every one of those businesses will need legal help as they age and grow. whether it be help starting your business, vendor contracts or employmt agreements. legalzoom's network of attorneys can help you every step of the way so you can focus on what you do. we'll handle the legal stuff that comes up along the way. legalzoom. legal help is here. hey lmaybe let's play upl our the digital part.r job, but it's a manufacturing job. yeah, well ge is doing a lot of cool things digitally to help machines communicate, might want to at least mention that. i'm building world-changing machines. with my two hands. does that threaten you? no! don't be silly. i'm just, uh, going to go to chop some wood.

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you vntd done a press conference in more than 260 days. your allies believe by keeping a low profile you can run out the clock on trump.

how do you respond to that? will you give a press conference? >> well, talking to you right now and i did in excess of 300 interviews this year. i will continue talking with the press and answering questions. >> why is it -- >> well, you know, i have got a lot that i have been sharing with the press, talking to the press. you know, stay tuned. there will be a lot of different opportunities for me to talk to the press as well as continuing to talk to the american public. jim is supporting hillary clinton for president. good to have you on board. >> the e-mail controversy.

is it a fake scandal. >> so you think it's a fake scandal? >> the secretary made a pretty clear apology, more clear lately than some time ago and said she regrets doing it. it should never have been in the home. she should have used the official e-mail but, you know, i think she owned up to that. it is time now to move onto real issues. >> we have got trust members showing this has really had an impact unless it was something else. she is competing against donald trump. it should be a done deal. what does it say about a candidate who can't keep her e-mail to regulation and has that drug out for years? what does it say about a candidate who can't stop doing business with foreign countries as secretary of state? what does it say about the

candida candidate. >> we have been talking about it. >> there was business happening. there were contributions happening. you're saying don't deduce that it influenced her ability to conduct foreign policy. i'm saying what does it say about a candidate who can't keep her e-mail to regulation as secretary of state and cannot keep her foundation to the appearance of not being sketchy. come on. i just want to know what it says about a candidate. >> i think what is she has owned up to was that it was sloppy,

not fully thought out. with the clintons there are 30 years here of foaming at the mouth, conservative conspiracy -- >> i'm a democratic and i'm not foaming at the mouth. i have questions and concerns. >> not anybody in the 48 hours we have spent talking about this on the national media has said here is somebody who got something of value because they made a contribution. >> are you a thousand percent convinced? >> i can't predict the future but i can say when the crown prince of bahrain gets a meeting with the secretary of state and oh, it just so happens they made a contribution, if that's the best charge you have got that's

a pretty thin case. >> what am i missing? >> i don't know what you're missing. you usually catch pretty much everything. i'm sure you're not missing anything. at this moment as member of the intelligence committee and reviewing the fbi and so forth, are you confident it does not have to be by a foreign entity? >> no evidence so far it has been hacked. it is easy to hack a server. i can't tell you it hasn't hacked. i can tell you that the state department. >> i am genuinely curious. there has been some suggestions in the clinton's world and intelligence agencies, so is there further investigation that needs to be done on that? what's the status? when it comes to national

security it seems like a relevant question. >> and there are continued investigations. we may never know because you can hack into somebody's computer. if you cover your tracks you may never know. it is important to look at the nature of the information that was in these e-mails. you know, these e-mails that were ultimately determined to contain classified information, a lot of that stuff was not stuff that would put people at risk. it was inner working government kind of stuff. it was newspapers all of the time referring to classified programs. it was references to that. one thing i am comfortable having reviewed all of the information which was subsequently deemed classified that appeared in those e-mails is that the risk of that would be damage to the united states as minimal at worst. >> i hope you're right.

thank you very much for coming on the show. >> thank you. still ahead, donald trump polls an audience. we'll discuss his game hshow approach. and the clintons defend their foundation. "morning joe" is back in a moment.

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good morning. it's thursday, august 25th. welcome back to "morning joe." it's 8:00 on the east coast and 5:00 a.m. out west. joining us is mike barnicle. political writer for the new york times, nick. >> all right. last night fox news aired the second part of their forum with donald trump. >> this is really interesting. >> he seemed to back away from his firm insistence that began in last year that all undocumented immigrants need to leave the country or get out -- >> you're out. i have a force. >> roll it. >> you also seem to be indicating there might be something other than they have to go back. am i reading that right? >> we have to follow the laws of our country. we have to follow the laws. >> that means they go back.

>> you somebody who is terrific, who has been here -- >> 20 years? >> right. >> can they go through a process or do they have to get out? >> you tell me. >> i think they shouhow many tho through a process? how many think they should go? >> do it again. >> you have a great job at everything else. do we take him and the family, her, him and send them out. or it's like the merit system other than they did break the law in the first place. do we throw them out or do we work with them and -- >> wait. how many say -- >> number one throw out. number two work with them.

number one. number two. this is like a poll. there are thousands of people in this room. >> you're saying if somebody can prove they have been here -- but here is the big question though, no citizenship. >> no citizenship. we go a step further. they will pay back taxes. they have to pay taxes. no amnesty. no amnesty. >> right. >> but we work with them. >> jeb bush, your immigration stand has prevailed in the republican party. i know it's not just cold comfort to you but that's jeb bush's position. >> yes. >> and rubio's position and jeb bush's position. >> it will take me an hour to diagram that sentence and find

out what the position was but i'm pretty sure -- >> well, he has solved it the same way rubio and jeb bush did with back taxes and making sure that they are -- >> terrific jobs. >> yeah. big league people. >> do they move onto other issues in the same format? raise your hat. >> and whatever the show is, who wants to be a millionaire or whatever, trump's new position stands in contrast to what he said on multiple occasions. >> did you ask him a question about a deportation force? >> it actually happened. this is what he said. >> you can ask him the questions. >> how do you deport 12 million illegal immigrants? >> you do it. they are here illegal. you do it. >> are you going to have a massive deportation force?

>> you will have a deportation force and you'll do it humanely. frankly -- because you have excellent, wonderful people that have been here for a long per kbrod of time. >> some will face ramifications, how are you going to pay for this? >> they are going back where they came. if they came from a certain country they will be braugtd back to that country. that's the way it is supposed to be. they can come back but they have to come back legally. >> so that was back in november when we weren't asking him questions to help him a lot. i wasn't asking him anything at all. >> yeah. >> never asked him a question. >> never asked him a question about putin last year. >> no. didn't do that. anyway, deportation force. that was november of last year to family feud amnesty in august of this year.

>> yeah. >> welcome to the new edition of family feud amnesty. >> you asked for a pivot. this is the pivot. >> yeah, who can i tick off that i haven't ticked off yet? >> yeah. and he was already calling this -- >> his head exploded? >> i don't know if it did or not. >> it is really pretty incredible that he has taken jeb bush and rubio's position. >> so yesterday trump stated his support for ending birthright citizenship. many noted how towards a payment of penalties brings him closer

to the positions of the primary rivals he attacked for offering amnesty. bush adviser charles spies agreed said looks like trump finally read the book. and john weaver wrote who needs a policy shop when they can flip and take john kasich's position. ted cruise's campaign's director said it vindicates the convention speech it vindicates what ted cruz warned would happen during the course of the campaign and liam -- >> so what's the impact here? >> it looks pretty significant. zwl

>> it is kind of a meta moment. it is what is the broader thing that will happen out in the country. it raises the question we have been talk about for a little while, which is how easy is it in our modern world to execute a pivot. pivots in the transition from a nomination fight to a general election. when you have taken it as extreme as donald trump has taken and they are on video tape i believe there is probably video tape out there that has him praisiing eisenhower's pare tachlgts it will remind the country of where trump was before will people not question the sincerity? >> sincerity and donald trump don't go together to the voters. they don't matter. i could get you video of him being for iraq, against iraq, for libya, against libya, for

partial birth abortions, against partial birth abortions. evangelicals supporting him despite him saying things -- and cu why is this any different than what trump supporters say? he is doing this to win. i don't think none of this matters to trump supporters. >> to answer your question, how difficult is it to pivot when your believes are grounded in jell-o? it is fairly easy to do it. just the other day he started off the day trying to soften the stance on the immigration to texas. by later that afternoon he was

saying we are going to build a wall. >> right. let's not spin too much time talking about this, because he could change by noon today or he could change in a tweet 15 minutes from now. he try today soften his position on guns and then later in the afternoon -- >> i don't think it is well thought out. i don't think it is changing positions. i don't think he had any. i don't think he knew enough about them. you're seeing oh, this doesn't work. i bet are say this now because he didn't know before. >> he does have kellyan conway trying to say what to say. >> getting hammered among suburban voters that are racist.

>> it seemed like it came from a genuine place for him and spoke to a genuine place in the party. she was warning that it was coming. it doesn't make sense to me but you're right that there is an audience for this that is not the trump base. the audience is not necessarily black voters. it's white vote wloers wars who see him trying to talk to black voters.

>> it is a democratic national convention on the cons. trying to get that base back. >> and is your suspicion that for very conservative republicans who were suspicious of him or for college educated republicans do they think he is now actually softening or do they say this is -- >> he said before -- >> they look at the terrible news of hillary clinton this past week. they look at more problems for the clinton foundation and i think there are probably a lot of republicans who are desperate

to vote for donald trump. they have not going to do it if they think he is a racist. i talked to these republicans and they are wringing their hands. >> if you are the clinton foundation how do you support it? it changes by the hour. >> he is learning. -- >> the problem is he is a flip-flopper. >> he was holding his finger up to the crowd. >> donald trump is shifting to

an illegal immigration policy that is complete echo of the proposals by jeb bush and rubio. contempt for his own supporters is so thoroughgoing he thinks he can say anything without risking their votes second, he has finally come to understand he is heading for a defeat to unimaginably humiliating. this is about generating votes among whites and likely white women by talking more nicely. call it compassionate at-conservati at-conservatism. >> the alt-right thing, hillary clinton is popularizing this term now. she is going to speak about the

alt-right and pin him on it. it is interesting to see if she can do this. chelsea clinton planning to stay on the board of her family's foundation even if her mother is elected president. a spokesman says she will keep her position if her mother wins the election in november. earlier reports suggested chelsea would step down if that happened. the journal adds that the foundation is also considering exceptions to the plan to stop accepting corporate and foreign donations like allows clinton health access initiative to accept that kind of money. >> wait just one second. so chelsea is now in and they are now doing exceptions. do we have the quote from yesterday? go ahead. this was said yesterday. >> okay. i'll jump to it. >> this was said yesterday. >> is it a sound bite?

>> all right. here is hillary clinton's press secretary. >> more than half the people in the world receiving aids received them from the clinton foundation. the clinton foundation will not be shuttering work even if she wins the presidency. they want to continue this work. if any american voter is troubled by the idea that the clintons want to continue working on the aids crisis then don't vote for her. >> you are not really that pathetic are you? are you really that pathetic? you're going to say if bill clinton doesn't have the opportunity to shake down billionaires that aids will not be cured? i guess if we are keeping score at home barack obama has the ability to stop the tides from

rising? right? in our time? and bill clinton shaking down billionaires in as ak ston while doing deals on the side and getting paid $550,000. it is the best line of attack you have you need to go back to middle school and start all over again. mike barnicle, if you're really -- if you don't want aids cured then i guess don't vote for hillary clinton. >> i don't know anyone who questions the good works done -- >> there is wonderful work that has been done. >> again, it gets to judge. it doesn't get to corruption. it gets to judgment. why they don't announce that the

clinton global foundation will be melded -- >> because then it will be about them, because then it won't be about bill clinton. do you think clinton will get paid $550,000 for a one-hour speech? in all of this swirl of special interests where he goes to countries and gives speeches and maybe they have business before of the white house -- why would they let the gates foundation do it? the gates foundation is actually interested in just taking care of education and aids. bill gates doesn't shake down people for $550,000. >> so here is bill clinton responding we also have hillary clinton responding. here is hillary responding. >> what trump has said is ridiculous. my work as secretary of state was not influenced by any

outside forces. i made policy decisions based on what i thought was right to keep americans safe and protect u.s. interests abroad. no wild political attack by donald trump is going to change that. in fact the state department has said itself that there is no evidence of any kind of impro pryty at all. >> i made it clear that if she becomes president we'll have to do more than we did when she was secretary of state. if you make a mistake there is always an appeal. we are going to transition all of these responsibilities that would require foreign or corporate donations which i won't accept and i won't raise money for the foundation if she

wins. >> i'm confused. >> it is from foreign governments are potentially corrup corru corrupting. i'm not sure why they have made that the line in the sand for how they will police the ethics of this conflict of interest. i'm very confused by it. >> that's the point maybe. >> i said yesterday i thought the foundation should be shut down and got a huge amount of abuse why you will kill people if you do this. >> were you the person he said was going to go hell? >> i'm going to hell for a lot of other reasons. that's a foregone conclusions.

i'm now on the express train. i will say that john kasz di, not right-wing people -- >> no. >> all people who have said over the last week or so that the foundation should not have the queen's name on it, that all of the good works that it does could be farmed out to other nonprofits or rebroanded. all of that money, all of those lives that are saved, all of those drugs that are purchased could go on. it could go on and no services need to be interrupted. it would be complicated, but it would be doable if you wanted to get out of the business of these conflicts of interest that are build into the clinton foundation. it is doable. if what you cared about was the potential conflicts of interest

from this day forward and getting rid of the problem it poses you'll say this is what we are going to do. we are committed to doing all of the good work. still ahead, the fringe, as part of mainstream, hillary clinton is set to go after donald trump's em basbrace. mike pence is changing his schedule to tour indiana after tornados touched down there. here is a look at the damage and also the forecast. >> we all changed our plans yesterday afternoon when we saw what was happening on the radar. storms produced many more tornados than expected. we were expecting hardly any tornados at all yesterday. all of our computer models did not see this happening. you can see this is destructive tornados. it is one of the worst august

tornado outbreaks than we have ever had. a pretty incredible number. usually august is not a huge tornado month. we are watching a chance of strong storms. right now there is generic storms. back here from joplin. it shouldn't be anything like what we saw yesterday. in the tropics 80% chance this develops. it will produce a lot of problems. as far as the forecast goes we are still talking it over the bahamas. as of now it does not look to be a devastating blow. possibility of flooding but low-end tropical storm at this point. a streak of weather continues in the northeast and mid-atlantic. temperatures tomorrow will be in the 90s. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. and i didn't get here alone.

there were people who listened along the way. people who gave me options. kept me on track. and through it all, my retirement never got left behind. so today, i'm prepared for anything we may want tomorrow to be. every someday needs a plan. let's ta about your old 401(k) today. morning is nothing new...stion, muddling through your ♪ introducing rhinocort® allergy spray. powerful relief from nasal allergy symptoms, all day and all night. ♪ try rhinocort® allergy spray. muddle no more®. hillary clinton: i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message. vo: in times of crisis america depends on steady leadership. donald trump: "knock the crap out of them, would you? seriously..."vo: clear thinking... donald trump: "i know more about isis than the generals do, believe me." vo: and calm judgment. donald trump: "and you can tell them to go fu_k themselves." vo: because all it takes is one wrong move.

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they feel so many of their representatives are correct parts of that liberal media elite. they feel people aren't standing up for them and in many cases given up on the electoral process. i think that you have a fantastic opportunity here with this campaign. you can go out. you can beat the come m--

donald trump campaigns with brexit in mississippi. we'll bring in kasie hunt ahead as well as hillary clinton's speech taking on the alt-right. real is making new friends. amazing is getting this close. real is an animal rescue. amazing is over twenty-seven thousand of them. there's only one place where real and amazing live. book a seaworld vacation package and eat free. ♪ ♪

it's what the national debt could do to our economy. if we don't solve our debt problem 19 trillion and growing money for programs like education will shrink. in just 8 years, inrest on the debt will be our third largest federal program.

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in the classroom goes up. male teacher: okay, veronica. amphibian. male teacher: excellent. welcome to a brighter future. welcome to it all. comcast. donald trump has shown us who he is. ought to believe him. s he is taking a hate movement,

bringing it to our communities and our country. you know, someone who questioned the citizenship of the first african american president who has courted white supremacists, who has been sued for housing diskr discriminati discrimination, who attacked a judge for his mexican heritage and promised a mass deportation force is someone who is, you know, very much peddliing bigoty and pair no,ranoia. >> clinton said she will have more to say about it in her speech today in reno, nevada. joining us is kasie hunt. here we have can you recall the anderson. what do we expect to hear today?

>> reporter: well, one thing i think we won't hear is any declaration that donald trump is a racist. i would be very surprised if she took that leap the way he dad in calling her a bigot. and also this new trump who is reaching out to hispanics but to all of the white voters who have clearly been put off by some of the things trump has said. we see it in all of the polling. donald trump isn't just trailing with african americans. he needs to fix that. this is about trying to make sure that they keep their pressure up in trying to convince people that the donald trump we have been seeing for

last six months is the same that would take this oath of office. >> all right. so curt -- i'm still thinking about the interview we had with jim heinz. there are tough answers to the foundation. it looks skietchy, does it not? i'm worried to be honest. >> well, anything could happen in 11 weeks. i find it hard to believe that depending on who this persuadable 7% of, you know, suburban white people, let's call them that, who might or might not vote for trump, are they going to suddenly say okay. i guess he is not this atroci s

atrocious, unhinged bigot we imagined and lead me to vote for gary johnson or to not vote. is there some wiggle room there? sure. would i be making this ridiculous and completely disingeneral youous? i don't see it. >> well. -- >> i don't see it changing. >> mike. >> do you think there is any changes over the past few dais about the african american community? what have you got to lose and have a list of things that they could potentially lose. >> again, i don't think the.

>> why? they can do that. let's not convince african american voters not to go vote for donald trump. it is this triple shot. he is trying to convince white people like hey, i'm not so bad. vote for me. is clinton saying he'll be bad for black people? going to convince them he shouldn't vote for him? i think not. >> here is the interesting thing. it is basically focused on not on any of these race related things. it doesn't focus on the immigration question.

>> the temperament questions, it is i think may realize those are the things which it is more resonant than what we find objectionable related to more race and culture kind of things. >> and i think it's absolutely correct. i think it's those things that the, you know, what we used to call country club republicans find objectionable wouldn't want that guy at the club doing those things. >> tell us about this sort of alt-right strategy. i understand he has a p pre-rebuttal to that.

>> reporter: he does. he is essentially saying we don't have excerpts of this speech yet. as far as the alt-right is concerned in particular this is a set of words when paul ryan was dealing with his primary. he called it -- he seemed as if he was beginning to grapple with it. he said no. it is called the al-rigt-right. it can be a difficult place to be. i talked to a foreman aid to gingrich and boll dob dole who jewish name, andrew wiandrew

winestein. i think they want to bring this farther out so more people take a look into this. winestein doesn't think it is explicitly rebutting it and it is an indication if not acceptance than at least dog whistles. that's the goal here. >> stay with us if you can. still ahead, evidence of what a candidate tweets mattersment we amatters. we'll have the latest hillary clinton tweet that's moving the market. we'll be right back.

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all right. let's get to business before the bell with sarah. they are taking steps to calm the anger over the epipen. tell us about it. >> yeah, that outrage is only growing. so milan said it will reduce costs that some patients pay, a subsidy for as much as the out of pocket cost for those that have trouble aforgd it. mylan has been blaming the system and not her company but importantly mylan out this morning not actually lowering the price. we have that clip from this morning. let's listen. >> no one is more frustrated than me. >> but you're raising the price though. >> my frustration is there's a list price of 608. i laid out that there are four

or five hands that it touches and companies that it goes through before it ever gets to that patient at the counter. no one -- everybody should be frustrated. i am hoping it is an inflection point. our healthcare is in a crisis. >> reporter: and the outrage is over the $600 price for two epipens and $550 -- criticism from hillary clinton who tweeted yesterday, epipens can be the fference between life and death. there is no justification for the price hikes. she called on mylan to immediately reduce the price. it sent shares of mylan's stock plunging. the index on wall street fell. a lot of companies stopped

getting hit on the idea that during an election season whoever will be the next president tackle this issue. >> thank you. >> up next, donald trump said he had no idea that the workers who helped make way for his new york trump tower years ago were undocumented but time magazine has evidence that trump knew but that he sought them out. >> what? >> that's next on "morning joe." with my moderate to severe ulcerative colitis, the possibility of a flare was almost always on my mind. thinking about what to avoid, where to go... and how to deal with my uc. to me, that was normal. until i talked to my doctor. she told me that humira helps people like me get uc under control and keep it under control when certain medications haven't worked well enough. humi can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections

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joining us now, nancy gibbs. nice title. this week's cover story, ordinary families, extraordinary kids. it is really interesting, especially the parenting component of it. just start with your reporting on donald trump. you have an article. >> so we went digging into the lawsuits and basically found that the use of undocumented polish workers was something trump knew much more about. since we are talking about immigration we are talking about documentation i think his own history about using the workers is relevant right now. >> okay. >> and from that to the cover

story, i mean the trump family itself is an extraordinary family. his sister is a federal judge. donald is donald. but the story is endlessly fascina fascinating. >> nine families? >> she spent traveling all over the country. nine families who have very different. you know, it's the ones that are most familiar would be the emmanuel brothers and a huge hollywood super agent but in every case she was looking for what do these families have in common? they are not family that is started out very rich, very famous and yet in every case the kids went onto really remarkable success. >> what's the key? parenting?

>> it was fascinating of the nine algt of them had an immigrant or educator. >> so interesting. >> there was a lot of comeback in the household. these kids were not helicoptered at all. >> i love when you talk about combat one of the families listed is the emmanuel brothers. >> you know, roxan egay, there was a lot of strong competition, a great deal of loyalty but the kids were not sent to learn mandarin when they were two years old. they developed a kind of resill yans. they also had a lot of political

politics but their parents were very involved with communities. a lot of them had a brush with mortality. they talk about how every day sense then it makes you think differently about what you are going to do and what you care about. >> we have seen in politics with the bushes and clintons this new quality. is it connected? we see it as a bad thing, right? that's not about great parenting or non-helicoptering. let's take the emmanuels, are they helpful to each other in a kind of building their mutual influence? >> i think by the time you reach adult hohood each of these kids have sort of gone their own way.

what was interesting is when they were little ends up with them being the way they the sisters did. >> when you say they aren't helicopter parents, my self-serving notion is that my generation has raised children to hovering and, don't go out there. where as, you know, it feels like back in the 60s we were free riders. is that a permanent change meaning we will no longer have these kinds of -- >> i think there's a lot of second guessing about whether it went too far. the more you do for your kids the less they do for themselves. >> that's it. >> this piece would be dramatically different if they had built a wall. >> yes. >> it would be different if they focused ton baon the barnicle b.

>> it is on sale tomorrow. just joking, mike. >> yeah. >> thank you very much. >> barnicle boys fight across the table. >> she said fighting was okay. >> she said fighting around the table was okay. >> she didn't mean like fistfighting. she didn't mean broken arms. >> there was some mischief. >> we are back in a moment. marco...! sì? polo! marco...! polo! scusa? ma io sono marco polo, ma... marco...! playing "marco polo" with marco polo? surprising. ragazzini, io sono marco polo. sì, sono qui... what's not surprising? how much money amanda and keith saved by switching to geico. ahhh... polo. marco...! polo! fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. polo!

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yoyeah, i do.e? you guys are working on some pretty big stuff over there, right? like a new language for crazy-big, world-changing machines. well, not me specifically. i work on the industrial side. so i build the world-changing machines. i get it. you can't talk because it's super high-level. no, i actually do build the machines. blink if what you're doing involves encrypted data transfer. wait, what? wowwww... wow? what wow? there is no wow.

i would get people out and have an expedited way of getting them back into the country so they were legal. >> it is not feasible. >> it is feasible if you know how to manage. >> they will go out. >> you can't pick them up and ship them back across the border. >> eisenhower, they moved a million and a half people out. we have no choice. >> are you going to have a massive deportation force? >> you have a deportation forgs and you'll do it humanely. >> what will you do for those that have been here for 25 years undocumented? >> we are going go and create a path where we can get them into this country legally. they are going to come back. >> they have been in the country for 20 years and done a great

job. okay. do we take him and the family, her or him or whatever and send them out. they will pay back pakstaxes. >> game show policy development continues. time to find out what we learned today. i learned that i thought ashley worked here. such a good intern. she is leaving. coming in at 3:30 every morning her dad drove her in from new jersey. and miller is it your birthday? >> how can you be uncertain about that? >> he is 18 today. finally you're sort of legal here. i think i have taken up all of the time. you learn anything? >> ordinary families, extraordinary kids, it doesn't happen. it is one of the healthy aspects. >> will the greatest flip-flop

of this election or any other work for donald trump? >> don't raise your kids like the barnicles unless you want criminals. >> happy birthday miller. stephanie picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks. from parenting advice to donald trump. overnight donald trump tearing into hillary clinton with his strongest language yet. >> hillary clinton is a bigot to people of -- she sees people of color only as votes. hillary clinton firing back hard in a brand new interview. >> he is taking a hate